Pyro (EUW)
: Champ Select trolls
From thinking about this, the only solution I have is for Riot to be more clear about the fact that bad behavior in champ select is punishable, logs are available to Riot and their systems, and bullying and trolling other players no matter where in the game they do it _is_ punished. A big, noticeable ban wave might make a difference in those players' attitudes. That's the only solution I have that doesn't just cause other problems. The ranked team builder that Lyte has been talking about might help alleviate some of these problems, but not without causing other problems. And it doesn't really reform players, it just gives them what they want. Whether that's going to lead to problems or be an improvement overall I can't say.
Lsayu (EUNE)
: I agree with your view on blaming mechanics and I do think much of the prejudice comes with this self-fulfilling and perpetuating cognitive bias. However, I don't agree that Riot is wrong to localize their game in so many languages or in their attitude towards language-barrier induced communication issues, **because there is already enough soft pressure to speak English already** with the game being overwhelmingly reliant on team communication. I think many issues can be and *are* solved with just knowing a couple of simple terms and pinging accordingly. **To demand full command of English in this trend of sophisticating map communication through pings etc. is just elitist if you think about it.** Why should they be forced to learn English or "get their own server" as people usually cry in forums for Poland and other countries. There is really no other reason than "I'm frustrated to have to communicate with them because we don't understand each other." Well guess what, **it's exactly the same for them too**. And English being the *current* lingua franca is in my opinion not an excuse to shove it down everyone's throats if they don't want it.
> However, I don't agree that Riot is wrong to localize their game in so many languages or in their attitude towards language-barrier induced communication issues You misunderstand my point. Riot is to blame for the fragmentation of the playerbase into separate groups based on language. This implies to players that the whole game is in a particular language when a large portion of the playerbase uses a different language. That doesn't mean it's wrong to localize the game, just that it comes with a different set of problems than not localizing it. It's really not fair to demand of everyone that they'd speak English. It's a widely spoken language, but it's not the only such language in Europe. German is another very common second language. And many players don't speak a second language at all. However, to make communication easier, one would expect the basic terms to be available in a single universal language, and English, being the most widely spoken as well as the main language of the NA server, is a good candidate. There's no need to learn all the intricacies of the language, but the basic terminology would be very useful to have. On my EUW smurf, when i last used it (which was a while ago), I came across a French player. Low-level account, new player. We got along quite well despite the language barrier, but it made it very difficult to talk builds, let alone anything less codified. A solution would be to have a multi-language sheet of common terms and phrases in all the major languages. I can't expect every player on my team to know what peeling means. I can't ask them to do that. But knowing what peeling is in Polish, or Greek, or something else, would be helpful. I don't know if the average player understands what the word armor means. But I know of no such sheet.
Lsayu (EUNE)
: Wait so if you're not under English section you don't see posts in English? o.O I mean you can switch languages any time, that shouldn't be a problem even on new boards.
Well, there are separate boards for the separate languages. You can't change languages. Not easily. I've tried it in Safari, FireFox and Chrome, and the menu doesn't work. You can change it by changing the /en/ part of the url to one of the other languages, or by going via the page and its language selection. I've posted about this a few times already, but the problem is still there. If the problem is that the language selection menu doesn't work, and the boards are locked to the selected language, then a portion of the old EUNE forum population might be stuck on the wrong language boards and don't know how to change it.
: BTW Stereotypes have usually a bit of truth behind them, talking about french, you CAN'T deny that if they start to feed, get mad cuz game is not going well for them they usually tend to start with those "tg", "fdp" "ta mere" etc. Now, the stereotype that french players are bad, is not correct BUT as they usually start to speak FRENCH when they play bad(especially insults) leads to the idea : French players are bad. Most other players won't flame in their language, therefore it's imposssible to determine their nacionality. This is the truth behind the stereotype, and you can't deny it. (this is also applicable to spanish cuz "jajaja" etc)
EUNE has a similar problem, primarily with Polish players, who are seen as the most undesirable teammates for their lack of English skills (despite being better than their southern neighbors and not trailing far behind Lithuania... or France, for that matter), bad behavior, and being overall bad players. Negativity bias makes you focus on the bad aspects of a game. The worst player, the bad plays, especially if you lost the game. And your bad games will stand out in your memory. And you don't want to take the blame for the loss yourself, so you look at your team for someone else to blame. You lost lane because the jungler didn't gank enough (or if you're the jungler, all your laners lost lane, despite that you ganked them all). So you look for someone to blame. And because there are a lot of Polish players, you often blame one of them. It doesn't help that many Polish players have PL at the end of their name, making them easier to identify. Now you can clearly identify some of the players as Polish. When you have a negative experience, you look at the names of the players on your team, and you might see a Polish players. It's their fault, never mind that you had Polish players in the games you won, too. Confirmation bias. Not everyone is comfortable with English. In the Nordic countries, 70% of the population can speak English, especially young people, especially gamers. The same numbers, on my map, for France and Poland are 39% and 34% respectively. Spain sits at 22%. Hungary at 20%. Poland and France are not the worst in this regard, yet there's enough players from those countries to earn them the stereotype that they don't speak English. We can actually blame Riot. The game interface, tooltips, champion voice, these are all localized to a number of languages. But the in-game chat, for obvious reasons, isn't, and afaik there's no handy reference for the most common (non-derisive) terms in other languages. "group", "no solo", "ward dragon"; those are things you'd expect everyone to understand, but when the rest of the game is in a different language, how much sense do these things make to players who don't speak English? It's unfortunate that players get such a negative view of an entire nationality mostly based on cognitive biases.
Petsho (EUW)
: wat. I play this game for fun, and I'm having it.
As do I. There are many games that are simply uninteresting from a behavioral standpoint, where players just work moderately well together, on both teams, and the better team wins. Then there are rare great games, and rare terrible games. I enjoy the game. I enjoy it the most when playing with friends, but soloQ can be fun, too.
: I faced my first ranked Scumbag team mate today...
Pick Order > Call Order. Communication > Pick Order, though. It's first picks prerogative to choose the champs to ban. Listening to the team is usually a good idea, but it's ultimately his decision anyway. I recommend you list more than one role/position you're good at when you call. I cycle through mid/jungle/support depending on my mood, and when I'm 4th or last, I'm "anything except adc". This means I rarely get the positions I'm terrible at. Yes, this Xin seems to be something of a scumbag, but there are far worse people in the game. Consider if he had been last pick, and would have gone double jungle while top was empty, or if he had started harassing his teammates right from the start of the game. There are players like that too. You _need_ to grow a thicker skin if you're going to play with random players, or else you'll either become so demoralized that you don't want to play anymore, or you'll start raging and become just as bad as they are. Those actually toxic players are rare, but they can completely destroy your enjoyment of the game if you let them. Except situations like this, and worse. Enjoy the games that don't have them. Steer the team away from them, when possible. Don't argue with those players. Use the mute button when you need to. Don't be afraid of dodging a game that's toxic already in champ select.
RaYnoXu (EUW)
: Just so you know, Lithuania has euro now too, tho Poland doesn't, so yeah, currency splitting seems illogical. Anyways I actually feel a bit insulted because of this misrepresentation. it really sucks that everybody thinks Baltic states= Russia, cuz we are not, most people under the age of 30 don't know russian at all, others just a tiny bit... And everybody associates Baltics wits russia because of the little things like this. We know these are the little things, but all those little things from all the media make us really disappointed even though Baltic countries don't suck as much as everybody thinks. If you care you can read a bit of our history, it's really interesting. anywayz lulz I'm on EUW, idgafos, no lag :D
Estonia parts of Latvia, have also been under Danish and Swedish rule, so it makes just as much sense to group you guys with us Nordics, if not more so. But as I said, if language is the issue, the Baltics are more English-capable than Spain, and a north-south division might make more sense than an east-west one. But idunno, I'd rather not have a split Europe at all.
: > A Eurozone-based division would be silly, since Finland, Estonia and Latvia have euro, but Sweden and Lithuania, which border them in the direction of the other Eurozone countries, do not. While that would be convenient for pricing reasons, the other server would be ridiculous with economies ranging from the UK to Romania and its neighbors, with radically different GDP per capita. > > I've asked and I've searched, but I haven't found a good answer to why the servers are still split, nor why they were split this way. > > tldr: server split is arbitrary, half the nordics aren't on nordic&east anyway, and afaik both servers are in the same datacenter. You don't understand how commerce works on internet; their priority isn't to split servers by languages spoken, but to volatility of currincies; y.e. Lira is the most volatile currency in Europe, if Tur was in the EUW or EUNE server, every 2 week they have to change RP price; this is their priority.
That Turkey has its own server isn't my concern, and it wasn't included in the discussion about the current split between EUW and EUNE.
wzy88 (EUNE)
: Lithuania has euro too... Since 2015. Btw nice theory there {{summoner:2}}
The map I referenced must have been outdated. It listed Latvia iirc at 2014, so I assumed it was fairly up to date. It showed the older currency for Lithuania. My bad.
tasos814 (EUNE)
: Player Levels in EUNE
> First, they cry Isn't that what you're doing here? > Second, they troll I hope you're not doing this. > Third, they flame Everyone has a different tolerance for negativity. "noobs", "kids", "unskilled", "troll", and casual racism indicates you're not that different. Maybe you're not wishing cancer on people. But if you said a few of these things in-game, I'm pretty sure your teammates would be upset with you. > Fourth, they think they are pros at bronze 5 I have a friend who's actually Challenger. We've played with him, a group of mostly Gold players. 5v5 custom games. We only win if we gang up on him so he doesn't snowball and steamroll all over our team. That's even when we give his team our lowest-ranked/skilled/leveled players, from high Bronze and Silver. If you're so much better than these players, just get better, win your lane faster, snowball, steamroll, and finish the game. It doesn't matter what they think. Your attitude isn't much different from theirs. If you ask them why they're in Bronze 5, what do you expect them to answer? I expect "noobs" and "kids" and "trolls". never mind that these same types of players are on the enemy team too. > Fifth, they are unskilled so much that if I went with them on 1v1 me soraka and him fiora or darius I would have win So... why don't you? If you're so much better than them, what are _you_ still doing in Bronze 5? > Sixth, one mistake and they go afk no reason They can be volatile, I've heard. But the same is true of the enemy team. Which means that if you can stomp them so easily even with Soraka, _why aren't you winning more_? > Seventh, you play with a good and friendly team you ask them even if you want to become friends and after 10 minutes you swear your head off because they fed even the minions Minions don't get fed. Minions scale with time _and only time_. The players you meet in Bronze 5 are there for a reason. They can be nice, they can be volatile, but the main thing they have in common is that they're not very good at the game. > Last one, if they are in poland , russia and all these countries please tell to speak ONLY ENGLISH "all these countries"? You mean countries that used to be Russia? Such as Finland? Or do you mean Slavic-speaking countries, thereby excluding Greece, Estonia, the Nordic cuntries, Hungary, Romania... Besides, you can read players' movements, use smartpings, or just ignore communication and just stomp them 1v1 until you're strong enough to 1v2... and keep snowballing from there. From your post, you seem like such a pro, and they like such noobs, that this shouldn't be a problem. Why do you need to communicate with them at all?
: _"In general, those behavioral alerts are based on valid reports"_ Sorry, but that's wrong. They are based on: "Being reported more than usual", a simple statistical test. If OP is actually a nice guy, who usually never gets reported, then one report by some angry flaming volibear, will trigger it. Whether or not a report is VALID, as in, based on actual misbehavior, is an entirely different question, which is answered by the chat analysis. the validity of reports has nothing to do with whether or not that window will pop up.
Actually, I've been corrected about this myself, earlier. And it seems I'm _still_ wrong on the finer points. [From the Support site]( > Alerts will be sent to players **after they receive a valid report** through the post-game reporting system. Keep in mind you may not receive the alert right away, so even if in your previous match you were the picture of positivity, an alert can still pop-up a few games later. Emphasis mine.
wzy88 (EUNE)
: Baltics gots euros. {{summoner:11}}
As does Finland. And Greece, Slovakia and Cyprus. And regardless of currency, the prices are afaik the same in both regions. It makes sense to group Finland with the other Nordic countries, and with the servers based in the same datacenter (at least now), geographical groupings are less important than cultural groupings. But why the generally capable English-speakers of the Nordic countries aren't grouped with the UK is beyond me. To me, it would make more sense to have a Slavic, a Germanic, and a Romance language server, since there's some amount of mutual intelligibility between languages in these groups. Less well represented languages can join whatever server they feel best represents them culturally, linguistically, or whatever. As such, Finland would most likely join the Germanic server anyway. From the maps I found, Estonians and Latvians are better at English than the French, and the Lithuanians about the same. Spain and Portugal is around half as good as the Baltics at English. Those maps are probably representative of the overall population, not gamers who tend to skew younger and more international. But if we base the division on GDP per capita, then Belarus, Ukraine, and the Balkans (sans Greece, in case it counts, idunno) would be the poor countries, the Nordics, the German-speaking countries, Benelux, France, the UK and Ireland would be the rich countries, and the rest would be in the middle. That's if we split it in three. In two, we'd have a border running between Slavic and Germanic countries (and Italy) right through Europe, and the Nordics would fall on the west side of this divide. Slovenia, Portugal, and Greece are outliers in their region, though not by much. A Eurozone-based division would be silly, since Finland, Estonia and Latvia have euro, but Sweden and Lithuania, which border them in the direction of the other Eurozone countries, do not. While that would be convenient for pricing reasons, the other server would be ridiculous with economies ranging from the UK to Romania and its neighbors, with radically different GDP per capita. I've asked and I've searched, but I haven't found a good answer to why the servers are _still_ split, nor why they were split _this_ way. tldr: server split is arbitrary, half the nordics aren't on nordic&east anyway, and afaik both servers are in the same datacenter.
wzy88 (EUNE)
: Remove baltics from Russian zone
The borders between servers are silly. I think there are more Nordics on EUW than on EUNE. Fortunately, players are free to play wherever they want, but it still matters to people where their country is assigned. And if the Baltics aren't Nordic & East, I don't know what is.
Realcat (EUW)
: The frustration is real
> I dont bully people, i dont arrass, i dont say "u suck kid" when people are really bad. Im bad sometimes too. Good. > But, wild teamfight appears, voli made a triple kill, i killed one fellow, saved 2 teammates with my shield. Pretty neat! Buuuuuttt.... voli was not pleased, he roared "thanks for stealing my quadra. you are so reported, kid. you are ksing me the whole game." Not cool. It's a team game. All kills for the team are advantages for the team. Enemy down, team gold, objectives open... Harassing teammates for being useful is just stupid. > my reaction was "what? ks the whole game? from u? you are hilarious." I don't think any of this is particularly problematic. But I would advise you not to argue with players like that. Anyone that uses the term ks seriously is most likely not a team player, and can freely be muted without any loss of teamplay. > I see a pop up "we were reported for negative attitude". Dafuq, just dafuq... And this is not the first time! In general, those behavioral alerts are based on valid reports, but the system is quite sensitive, and we don't know the threshold for actual report value necessary to trigger it. AFAIK, they don't trigger from single games, though. If you were getting reports in previous games too, these might add up to an alert. You didn't say anything about your earlier games. These may have been part of why you were alerted. In any case, that popup is just a notification that you've been reported, not a punishment or a promise of one. It's badly phrased, as it assumes guilt, and imo does more harm than good when given to generally well-behaved players. But it's designed to stop people on tilt from behaving badly in subsequent games, from spreading negativity from game to game. And for the players that indeed are on tilt, it works well. I've received it too. Just ignore it. And don't argue with stupid people. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
SmB Koji (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Adrenalotr,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=BngwPEsh,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-04-25T19:12:04.423+0000) > > If you get players like that on your team, you should have similar players on the enemy team, because that's how the matchmaking works. You get matched with 9 other players, and are divided into teams. There's no "let's take this player and make his team always suck"-algorithm that Riot uses. You'll notice that when a champ select disbands, some of your former would-be teammates end up on the enemy team. The reason it seems to happen more often to you than to your enemies is that you don't notice it when it happens to the enemy team, you just think you're finally having good teammates/performing well yourself. This is part of the cognitive biases all players (all people, really) have. > Not necessarily. Indeed, enemy players don't dodge my skillshots, and I do notice it. But they do dodge my allies' skillshots. I don't doubt the matchmaking (even if I know it's pretty derp usually), I just don't get why I get to play with the lazy ones. No, they don't want to win even by the time they click on "PLAY". However, they like to spend time blaming each other in the chat and keep feedign while doing so. Which doesn't happen in enemy teams.
You don't see the enemy team chat. Their mistakes, which you said you notice, doesn't cost you anything. Those two things combined give you a skewed perspective. You don't see all the problems on the enemy team, and even when you see a "report x" or something from the enemy team, you don't remember it because it had so much less meaning to you than when your team says the same thing to the enemy team. This is negativity bias. If you have ten positive encounters and one negative encounter, you will dwell on the negative encounter. It's human nature. We all have it. Then there's confirmation bias, which ignores the good games and the games where the enemy had problems, and only counts (and exaggerates) the negative games. We all have it. But if you can be a force for positivity on your team, manage the team morale, you'll win more games. If the average player is lazy, blame-y, or quick to give up, then by encouraging them to play, you have an advantage over the enemy team. You already do, being at most 4 such players vs. their 5.
: If your only words in the past 100 games in chat are: * dragon lost (when I hear the dragon sound when whe have no vision over dragon) You known they are false.
Champ Select and the post-game chat are also considered by the system. If you truly say nothing but "dragon lost" in all the chats combined, then the system is oversensitive. But I don't believe that.
SmB Koji (EUW)
: How to win with people who don't want to ?
> They don't dodge any skill shot, they don't ward, they don't farm, they don't trade, they stay passive and get owned in every lane, they don't do calls, they don't follow calls... If you get players like that on your team, you should have similar players on the enemy team, because that's how the matchmaking works. You get matched with 9 other players, and are divided into teams. There's no "let's take this player and make his team always suck"-algorithm that Riot uses. You'll notice that when a champ select disbands, some of your former would-be teammates end up on the enemy team. The reason it seems to happen more often to you than to your enemies is that you don't notice it when it happens to the enemy team, you just think you're finally having good teammates/performing well yourself. This is part of the cognitive biases all players (all people, really) have. > How do you stand a chance to win with people who don't want to win ? No idea. But most players want to win, they just give up at some point and don't want to _try_. There's a difference. IIRC I once won a 4v5 simply by suggesting that we do one last desperate push mid. We won the ensuing teamfight, got a tower, dragon. Did it again, won the teamfight, took objectives. Suggest to your team to do one last desperate try before surrendering. It tends to have a humanizing effect on the team, which is always useful, and it gets your team to try, at least once.
: When will the tribunal finaly become live
If you get more than one behavior alert, I wouldn't be so sure they're false.
Moody Jazz (EUNE)
: People still do this?
Talk to Riot Support.
Sejuonly (EUW)
> And seriously the real toxicity is players saying "easy" Rarely toxic, but rude and unsportsmanlike. > some idiot kid lost his lane so hard to me "Idiot kid" is also rude and unsportsmanlike. > But I got 4 FEEDERS in my team I'm looking at their score right now. 5/9, 1/6, 3/7, 3/8. That's form a 26-minute game. I can't say definitively that they didn't start to feed at some point. But someone going into a game with intent to feed would at that time have a score more like 0/30. Those players are not feeders, and calling them feeders is demoralizing, as well as rude and unsportsmanlike. > I am to blame when I call them "idiots, retards". Yes you are. That's rude and unsportsmanlike. > I am the one antogonized You also antagonize the others. So far in your post, you've denigrated your 4 teammates and one opponent. If you do this in-game, it wouldn't surprise me if your teammates decide to ruin the game for you. That's not okay, but neither is harassing others. > yet I am the one chat restricted Judging by your post, rightfully so. If you're upset about being chat restricted, consider _why_ you're chat restricted. Re-read your own post for some idea. > When the real toxic ones are those who say EASY after the game and get on your nerves. That's annoying, not toxic. Toxic are the intentional feeders, the verbal abusers, the premade bullies, the malicious trolls, the flaming rager; the ones that ruin one game for you, and then make you ruin the game for others. The ones that spread bad behavior from one game to another. Judging by your post, you might be toxic yourself. Are you still playing after you've been upset by a game? If so, you're entering a game already upset, with less patience and calm than you _need_ to handle a badly behaving player. > Screw this game , screw those kids. Rude and unsportsmanlike. > You damn know that saying EASY to your face after game is just offensive as saying FCK YOU. They're both offensive, rude, and unsportsmanlike. As are many of the things _you_ have said. I hope you quit. We're not in the same MMR range and not on the same server, but I really wouldn't want to play with you. If you don't have the patience to ignore a player saying "easy" at the end of the game without throwing a tantrum on the boards, then I don't know how you'd react to an actually toxic player. And I hope we don't find out.
: Its gone full circle
The role of the jungler isn't to gank. It's not even to secure objectives. At its core, the role of the jungler is to take gold from the jungle rather than from a lane, because that increases the gold available to your team overall. Beyond that, ganks, objective control, deep warding, counterjungling, counterganking, and holding players' lanes are things that junglers _can_ do. It's not the jungler's role to win your lane for you. That said, a smart jungler will probably gank and help secure objectives, because that wins games. But a jungler that isn't doing this is no more wrong than a laner that makes similar tactical mistakes, like going b at the wrong time, overextending without wards, or roaming at the wrong time. Everyone makes the decisions they think are the best. Sometimes those decisions are bad. You can't force your team to make the decisions you want them to, no more than they can force you to make the decisions they want you to. Everyone does what they think is best. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. And you can't change that.
The player who sent you that link might have been "hacked", which means they were stupid enough to enter their login information on a site like that, and then someone logged into their account to give out that link to everyone on their friends list and possibly other players as well, including you. Let Support sort it out. And never trust links for free stuff.
: chat ban
Did you talk to this player at all? Getting into an argument or flame war with another player is not okay. Her report probably doesn't matter; false reports have reduced value in the system. But if you were reported in previous games too, then this can add up. Are you saying anything that other players can interpret as negative, such as "bg", "stop feed", or "gg surr at 20"? None of those things are sportsmanlike or constructive, so you don't help your team or make the game fun for anyone by saying them. That's why a lot of players report things like that, and why the system punishes that kind of behavior. Are you saying things like that? Riot hasn't really told us enough about the system for a definitive answer, and we don't know what special treatment players who have already been punished by the chat restriction system get in the system. I recall a Rioter saying that you're under closer watch after a chat restriction, but I don't remember exactly.
MisterA1 (EUW)
: What is the logic behind the leaverbuster system?
Not a ban. You're in low priority queue because you agreed that you wouldn't leave games, and yet you left. If you had good reason to, then you made the right decision, but you still inconvenience other players, which is not good. I doubt you were given a particularly long LPQ if you have only left in those 3 games. Ragequits don't matter. Not playing the game does. It doesn't matter why you aren't playing, or how. You can idle in base, just chatting, and the system will catch you for that. You can have a power outage, and the system will catch you for that. If it detects that you can't play full games, it tells you that this would suck for your teammates, and gives you a light punishment. If that doesn't help, it'll increase the punishment. It doesn't matter why you leave, because you still leave your team in a 4v5, and while your premade friends might be ok with it, it still suggests a pattern of leaving that would not be okay with most players.
: Yes, lowering LP doesn't fiddle with matchmaking, thats right. In fact it doesn't have any impact whatsoever because it only delays the progress in the league system. And what happens if your progress is delayed? Your MMR and league/division won't fit (your MMR will be highter than the average on your leage). And what happens if you have a higher MMR than it's usual in your league/division? You get more LP. So basically reducing LP results in getting more LP ----> It is not even a punishemnt, it has no effect at all.
That's like saying the LP penalty for dodging has no effect at all - yet players repeatedly come here to complain about it. Clearly players feel it is unfair that they lose LP for avoiding (what they perceive as) toxic games. That means they view the LP penalty and queue delay as a punishment. Which in turn means that something similar, actually used as a punishment for leaving, could work. Depending on the duration of the LP clamping, this might feel like a punishment despite that once it's over, you quickly climb back to where your MMR and rank are more in sync.
Faumos (EUW)
: And RIOT tells you to be a better person ,no F you RIOT.... i dupd so many time and money on this game and i get so much bulls*it... WTF is wrong with you people.. I guess its a age problem... make an age resstriction ,where 14-16 play 14 - 16 years old . 16 -18 play the same tier and so one.. becouse i belive the most fcukd up people are these 16 years old pro whanabeas, that think they are PRO..
Are there enough 30-yearolds for me to play with? I don't want to play with younger players, because I have a preconceived, generalized notion about their behavior being immature and improper. The thing is, I find that I don't have nearly the same amount of feeders and flamers as the players who post here and complain. This suggests one of two things: 1) We play in different places. Low Gold MMR in Ranked on EUNE must be a very non-toxic place, compared to where everyone else plays. 2) Something I do is different from what the players who complain do. Something about how I handle my team, my emotions, and the situations in the game makes things work out better for me.
: About your three suggestions: - Lowering the skill rating of someone who didn't actually decrease his skill destroys matchmaking. Why would you match a leaver with weaker players? He doesn't become a worse player by leaving. You really shouldn't punish behavior by fiddling with matchmaking, it creates unbalanced games. - Bans are not an efficient punishment because they can be circumvented (switching to another account or simply playing another game until the ban ends). Low priority matchmaking is much more efficient because you really have to experience the punishment if you ever want to get rid of it. - Abusable. Game doesn't go so well? Make someone leave. And no, you can't prevent this abuse. People do EVERYTHING to climb the ladder, they will abuse this system, no matter how harsh the punishment is. You can also pay people to do that for you. There are dozens of ways to abuse this and people would do it, doesn't matter what the punishment is (think about boosting: A lot of people do that although the chance is almost 100% to be permabanned for this sooner or later)
> You really shouldn't punish behavior by fiddling with matchmaking, it creates unbalanced games. Agreed. However, you could reduce LP, even give reduced LP gains for a while, as a punishment. LP isn't MMR. For the players who play to increase their rank, this might be a good punishment. The system would just treat the player as it does someone who dodges their promo games. MMR would rise, but their rank wouldn't.
: My TV is Sony Bravia KDL-26S4000: Resolution - 1366 x 768 pixels Width - 26.5 inch (675 mm) Height - 20 inch (511 mm) Diagonal - 26 inch (66 cm)
If that's the problem, set the resolution to a more standard aspect ratio in the game settings, if available. It seems unlikely that the game would react to a 16:10 resolution (or whatever it is), but it's a possibility.
FurikLOL (EUW)
: The Behaviour Problems
You assume Riot blindly accepts reports. That's not true. Riot not only tracks report accuracy with a number of systems and reduces the value of reports for players who report falsely, but Riot also has other systems, machine learning that recognizes behavior patterns and can identify and punish offenders without anybody reporting them. If you get punished, it's because your behavior isn't in line with what the majority of players consider acceptably. Maybe you're unsportsmanlike and say "easy" at the end of games, or say "bg" without considering how the enemy team will read it. Or maybe you're a flaming rager. I have no idea. But my behavior hasn't given me any punishments. And also, I don't see this cesspool of terrible behavior despite that I'm actually looking for it, writing down my experience of each game and hoping to learn something interesting from it. Occasional players behaving badly, sure. But rarely something so bad that I want to leave. Not in a very long time.
Rioter Comments
Bombardox (EUW)
: Bronze 1-2 has more skill than gold 5 - 4
The thing is, the players who legitimately made it to Gold (or any other rank) did so by doing things right. Not everything right, but some things. They might be very mechanically skilled, they might have good game knowledge, they might have good communication and teamwork... That doesn't mean they're great at everything. And as this is a game of many matches, you can't judge players by their performance in single games, either; you'd have to look at how good they are overall. Your friend might be right about the Bronze players farming better, but that doesn't mean they _are_ better, that they _play_ better. Sure, farming takes some skill. last-hitting takes some skill. But you can be great at that, and still buy terrible items, never group, have terrible map awareness, and behave in ways that make you lose (eg flaming, feeding, trolling, leaving, or causing others to do it).
: I really don't get it! :(
What's the resolution of your tv? How much wider is it? I wouldn't expect that to be an issue, but it's possible that a non-standard aspect ratio could influence the field of view, which in turn might be what the game's hack detection is looking at.
: Unjustly banns
Tribunal is probably still a ways off, but Reform Cards, which would let punished players know what they did wrong, are likely to come out before the new Tribunal. Can't find the source on that atm, tho.
> I f*ing bet u do nothing to this guy unless i write something on boards and i don't think u still do nothing This is not where you report people. Riot don't make punishment decisions off of other people's forum posts. -- Players don't usually do things like that unless provoked. You're the only one here who has any idea what really happened in that game. Consider if there was anything you could have done differently, something that might have prevented his trolling. Learn from it. I recall a few numbers, the only such numbers I've seen, that the average player, who doesn't get punished, gets reported in up to 5% of his games, and an extreme case, a player who got permabanned, was reported in 30% of his games. There's quite a difference between being reported once per 20 games, or once per 3 games. If this player behaves similarly often enough, and gets reported, he's very likely to get ranked restricted or otherwise punished. That said, Riot has other tools for identifying bad behavior besides reports. If his type of behavior is reported often enough, they can catch him even if he's never reported himself, simply because the system learns to identify the behavior.
: How to control your rage and STOP thinking ELO HELL exists.
Not really a high Elo player here (low Gold), but I've been thinking about behavior in the game for over a year, writing down my thoughts after every interesting game. What I've found to be the most effective way to deal with players (around my MMR anyway) is the following: 1) Show that you're human. When I jungle, I ask someone on the team to keep an eye on my other buff, in case the enemy wants to steal it. I thank anyone who helped me with the first camp. When i make a mistake, usually one that results in me or someone else dying, I take the blame. "my bad". 2) Encourage, don't criticize. Players aren't receptive to constructive criticism while mid-game. Telling them directly is more likely to get them more upset. If they already know it, they don't need you to tell them. If they don't know, they're going to disagree. This applies to every kind of feedback in the game. Instead of telling them what to do, encourage them. Say "gj" and "nice work" and stuff when they do something right. Remind them that a lost lane isn't a lost game. Keep an eye on advantages your team has, like stronger late-game, more turrets, more cc... Remind them of this. 3) Don't give up early. The game is decided in teamfights, not in the laning phase. As long as you can come out of the laning phase with a decent amount of gold and without the enemy being fed, you've got a good chance of winning. I won a game 4v5 just by suggesting we all group mid for one last desperate push. We won a teamfight, took tower, won another teamfight, took more objectives. 4) Don't be part of the problem. Don't add to the frustration of other players. Don't argue with flamers and flame back, because then your team has 2 flamers instead of one. Don't blame. Flamers, leavers, trolls, and other players are slightly more common on the enemy team, statistically, which means you already have an advantage... assuming you don't turn your teammates into flamers/leavers/trolls or become one yourself. 5) Be part of the solution. When the first flame starts showing, call it out. "Flame isn't helping", "less flame more play" or whatever phrase you find the most useful. If that doesn't stop the flame, mute the flamer, and suggest the player being flamed mute them too. If the flamer doesn't stop after you tell them the first time, they're not likely gonna stop after the sixth time. Tell them once, and if that doesn't work, mute them. I don't know how effective these are in Bronze, since from what I've heard players there are really volatile, while players in my MMR tend to have their emotions under control at least somewhat.
Shinnie (EUW)
: I lost 2 games in a row because of leavers. In general that shouldn't be a problem, but these past few days I've had a lot of leavers for no apparent reason other than to spite other people. And I find your argument that the opponent has more leavers on average repulsive, I enjoy good matches were people can play without getting flamed, trolled or abandoned by teammates. Why should I be happy or willing to accept that it happens to other players as well?
> And I find your argument that the opponent has more leavers on average repulsive, I enjoy good matches were people can play without getting flamed, trolled or abandoned by teammates. Why should I be happy or willing to accept that it happens to other players as well? It'd be better if there were no leavers at all, sure. But the majority of complaints about leavers are "I lost because of leavers", not "I won because of leavers". Your complaint in the original post isn't "I get undeserved LP because of leavers", but rather "I lose LP because of leavers". Remembering that there are more leavers on the enemy team helps keep you calm when you have a leaver and lose a game because of that. That's the value of the argument. It's not a defense of the situation or of leavers. It's a defense against the game eating up your patience, calm, and good behavior. The same thing applies to all the other problematic types of players. They're more common on the enemy team, so while it sucks that they make the game a negative experience for people, yourself included, the most tangible effect they have in that they make you lose games is countered by the fact that their existence actually wins you more games that it costs you. But as with leavers, it'd be better if games didn't have such players, such behavior, such problems.
Ventrical (EUNE)
: Is smurfing okay in ranked games and would you report the smurfs ?
The appropriate report option would probably be "unskilled player", which should be renamed to "matchmaking mismatch" or something like that, because that's what Riot use it for. Smurfing is relatively rare, though. I recall 2, maybe 3 games with a smurf, across around 300. These players quickly rise through the low ranks where they can win the game on their own, and proceed to be an above-average player in whatever tier they then get stuck in. They're rare, and they'll show up on your team as well as the enemy team. I don't consider them a problem, as long as they can behave themselves. Most of the time, when someone says they're a smurf, they're not. They're just saying it so that you'll do what they tell you, like giving them mid or whatever else they want. It's not reportable. If they misbehave, sure, they can be reported for that. But not for being a skilled player on a low-MMR account. Good luck in your placement. If your actual skill level is low Silver, you'll probably end up in high Bronze and have to prove yourself to climb to Silver. If your actual skill is higher Silver, then you might find yourself in low Silver. There are only 10 placement games, and most players land below their skill level. Also, Bronze and Silver are huge, more than 50% of the playerbase. If you're Silver, you're not terrible; you're average. And when there's a million ranked players on EUNE, average is better than a lot of players.
Vall3y (EUNE)
: Does Riot distinguish between a player that disconnected and a player that "ragequits"?
Speculation: There's the game client, and there's the client. If you disconnect from one but not the other, Riot knows it's not a network problem, and either a crash or a user quitting the game. If you really want to mask a ragequit, you'd unplug the network cable, or shut off the router or computer. Otherwise, there's the client reporting back that it's still on and connected. They can then further distinguish between crashes that bugsplat bug-related tools can identify, and intentional quits involving a quit command that might be logged. Riot's systems could potentially find common patterns between instances confirmed to be ragequits with their machine learning systems. That's the closest thing to mind-reading they'll get. They don't have any other way to know how you're feeling. And even then, it's a guess. An educated guess, but still. But if it's a question of punishment, then it doesn't matter. As punishments go, they don't care if you're repeatedly quitting because you have a noob team with 6 feeders, or because your computer hardware and the game can't work together. In both cases, you're leaving your team in a 4v5, and that's not okay. tldr: I think yes, technically no, but kind of yes, and also no.
Shinnie (EUW)
: Leavers
You can still win a 4v5. I have. And I've lost 5v4s. It happens. If you shouldn't lose LP when a teammate leaves, does that mean the enemy team shouldn't _get_ LP in that game? That would make it abusable. Should they get LP but you shouldn't lose any? Then there will be players who bully others into leaving so they won't lose LP. It encourages players to be bullies, which is _really_ not good. For that matter, unless you're a leaver yourself, there are 25% more leavers on the enemy team. The math works like this: any of the 10 players in the game can be a leaver, except you; there are 5 potential leavers on the enemy team, 4 potential leavers on your team; that's 25% more potential leavers on the enemy team... unless you're either a leaver yourself, or cause or contribute to other players leaving. In other words, you benefit from leavers, _and_ you can increase this by managing your behavior and your teammates in a way that doesn't lead to leaving. You'll still have leavers. But the other team will have more of them, on average.
Bombardox (EUW)
: i got leaverbuster for having troll in my team
That's not how it works. You get busted for leaving, disconnecting, idling, or otherwise refusing to play. Your teammates have nothing to do with that. Leaving, intentionally or not, no matter the reason, means you leave your team in a bad situation, worse than it was before. If one teammate is trolling, that's bad. Yes. But consider how it is for the rest of the team when they have one troll and one leaver. It might not apply in this particular game, but it's something to bear in mind the next time you have a troll on your team.
Mark3399 (EUNE)
: They were trolling .. chat was full of spams with CAPS like : troll , fck you , bitch . I left cause i was sure i will lose with 2 trollers . I dont say that i play like a diamond player ... but i can carry in silver easy if my team just dont troll/feed
> They were trolling .. chat was full of spams with CAPS like : troll , fck you , bitch . Bear in mind that trolling is about reactions. They're doing stuff for a reaction. Maybe that reaction is that somebody else dodges. Maybe they want to ruin the game for people and laugh at how angry it makes their teammates. But there are also harmless trolls, who pick non-meta champs into non-meta roles and still play the game seriously. By your description, the players in your champ select seem like one of the first two types. > I left cause i was sure i will lose with 2 trollers . It might have been the right decision, but I'd argue it was for the wrong reason. These seem more like toxic players - which is bad - that trolls. As explained in the previous point, not all trolls are a bad thing. But all toxic players are. Like I said, I only dodge when the chat is really toxic. So in your situation, I might have dodged. > I dont say that i play like a diamond player ... but i can carry in silver easy if my team just dont troll/feed Then you should climb fast despite this little setback. Good luck.
: Entire game vote - interesting. I fear that people enjoy stomping others and the advantaged team would be unlikely to stop the bloodshed!
That's a concern. Another is that the game might get very disruptive if one team keeps spamming "end game" votes as often as you can spam surrender votes. Another option would be to open up the surrender vote if the kill/objective score is heavily in one team's favor, say, >2:1, at 10-15 minutes into the game. This would put the vote in the hands of the losing team. The problem with this is that players might not consider their mid/late-game strengths, their comp, and just give up instead of trying. I've seen some pretty good comebacks in my games, both on my team and on the enemy team. The psychological effect of a surrender vote isn't to be underestimated, because once someone starts that vote, the whole team sees that one of their teammates has already given up.
Laban (EUW)
: Either Cheat or Quit.
If you suspect a player of scripting or otherwise cheating, notify Riot Support. Low Gold here, I don't see any scripters.
Mark3399 (EUNE)
: This game is just retard ... nothing more to say
> And by big luck i hadn't retards in my team So you're suggesting you have at least one retard in each of your other games? You _do_ realize that the odds of the enemy team having a random retard is higher than your team having one? 25% more common. The same goes for flamers, leavers, trolls, and other specific player types. There can only be 4 on your team, but there can be 5 on the enemy team. That's assuming _you_ aren't one of those problematic types. In simple terms, there are "retards" more often on the enemy team than on your own. Part of your climb to Silver III is because there have been "retards" on the enemy team. > In champion selection i had 2 trollers .. my team was something like : ashe , leona , sona , nida and me sejuani Doesn't seem like a typical team comp, no. But I've seen plenty of Nida top, and a few Sona mid. Do you _know_ they were trolling to ruin the game, or were they just doing this because they thought it was good for the team? How do you _know_ they were trolling? Did they say so? > So i left ofc .. i know when a game is lost . AND ONLY BECAUSE I LEFT THAT GAME , BRAINLESS RITO REMOVED ME FROM PROMO AND I WAS 97 LP ... JUST WHY ??? Why? Leaving games in champ select is disruptive to the 9 other players in that champ select. If players were free to leave whenever they felt like it, they'd leave whenever they got counterpicked, whenever they're not first/second pick and get their main, whenever their main is banned, whenever they feel like it. If you have the skills to climb, you'll get back to promos and get through them eventually anyway. Otherwise, you'd sit around mid Silver anyway. You don't know if the game is lost based on champion picks alone. Especially in Silver. Maybe you don't know how to play with a Sona mid. But maybe the other team doesn't know how to play against her. I would advise you to suggest dodging to your teammates instead of dodging your promo games yourself, if the situation calls for it. And I would argue that this situation didn't, based on the information in your post. If there was cancer wishes and toxic chat, sure. But otherwise I'd just play the game. I only dodge if the chat is toxic. if there's threats of trolling, feeding, or otherwise ruining the game, I'd play it anyway. Often, those threats are a negotiating tactic, to get other players to give them the lane they want, or to get someone else to dodge. In the rare case where the player actually _will_ ruin the game, we've got all the evidence we need in the game, so Riot can deal with this player based not just on threats but actual behavior.
XboyQ (EUNE)
: you must be fun at parties
: {{item:3069}} I will never buy this item. It is useless! Let me explain with more detail. {{item:3301}} +25% Base Mana Regen UNIQUE Passive - Favor: Being near a minion death without dealing the killing blow grants 2 Gold and 5 Health. Limited to 1 Gold Income item {{item:3096}} +25% Base Health Regen +25% Base Mana Regen +10 Movement Speed +2 Gold per 10 seconds UNIQUE Passive - Favor: Being near a minion death without dealing the killing blow grants 3 Gold and 5 Health. Limited to 1 Gold Income item {{item:3069}} +100% Base Health Regen +100% Base Mana Regen +20 Movement Speed +10% Cooldown Reduction +2 Gold per 10 seconds UNIQUE Passive - Favor: Being near a minion death without dealing the killing blow grants 3 Gold and 10 Health. UNIQUE Active: Grants nearby allies +40% Movement Speed for 3 seconds (60 second cooldown). Limited to 1 Gold Income item Then you have this little fellow {{item:3303}} {{item:3303}} +5 Ability Power +2 Gold per 10 seconds +25% Base Mana Regen UNIQUE Passive - Tribute: Spells and basic attacks against champions or buildings deal 10 additional damage and grant 5 Gold. This can occur up to three times every 30 seconds. Killing a minion disables this passive for 12 seconds. Limited to 1 Gold Income item {{item:3098}} +10 Ability Power +2 Gold per 10 seconds +50% Base Mana Regen UNIQUE Passive - Tribute: Spells and basic attacks against champions or buildings deal 15 additional damage and grant 10 Gold. This can occur up to 3 times every 30 seconds. Killing a minion disables this passive for 12 seconds. {{item:3092}} +50 Ability Power +10% Cooldown Reduction +2 Gold per 10 seconds +50% Base Mana Regen UNIQUE Passive - Tribute: Spells and basic attacks against champions or buildings deal 15 additional damage and grant 10 Gold. This can occur up to three times every 30 seconds. UNIQUE Active: Fires an ice lance that explodes dealing 50 (+5 per champion level) magic damage to nearby enemies and slowing their Movement Speed by 80%, decaying over 2 seconds (60 second cooldown). So you have the Shuriman item vs the Freiljord item. The second one is better simply because Spellthief´s Edge wins you the laning phase. That first item already gives you more gold, the same amount of percentage mana regen (25%), PLUS ability power. Meanwhile the first item, Ancient coin, gives you 25% base mana regen and 2 gold per CS. And building the Talisman is a waste just because you build no damage and you get little gold in return (just counting the passive). Frost Queen´s claim gives you everything an AP support champion needs: mana regen, ability power (more AP = better heals, speed boots, slows, shields, and damage if you ever get into trouble). And even the Slow active deals damage. Anyway, that is my thought. To be clear, The Talisman is not really useless, it does give some great bonuses, but they dont "show up" until mid to late game.
I base my decision on which of the two to buy based on what my champion can do and how the lane and the team looks. Do I already have an AoE slow? Point Shurima. Do I need more slows? Point Freljord. Do I expect to need to speed up my team? Point Shurima. Am I expecting a short laning phase, or planning to roam a lot? Point Shurima. Do I have terrible AP ratios? Point Shurima. Do I want AP and CDR relatively early? Point Freljord. Do I need the hp regen? Point Shurima. Do I have the range to poke the enemy in lane safely? Point Freljord. And if I'm melee and not Alistar, I take Relic Shield instead.
umutakiz19 (EUNE)
: {{item:3060}} {{item:3512}}
Consider taking Banner of Command when then enemy is heavy on magic damage. The promoted minion is _immune_ to magic damage, so it'd take a Karthus or something ages to kill it. It's great for pushing out a side lane while you group mid or push the other side lane. Also, unless I misremember, you get gold from what the promoted minion kills, too. Its AP and CDR makes it useful even on mid-lane mages, and the MR aura is useful for the whole team. Zz'top portal, on the other hand, I've yet to figure out how to use effectively.
: No. I believe even 4v5 you stand a chance. It will happen in your disadvantage at times, sometimes in your advantage. I've won 4v5 games, and since you're playing the game anyway - might as well try, right? :)
Agreed. I lost a 5v4 because my team couldn't work together. While it takes a lot more skill to win when you're at a disadvantage, you can still win if you play well. If players in your MMR are volatile and easily get upset by stuff, odds are that the enemy team will make more mistakes and get more upset with each other than your team. There's only 3 players on your team besides you who can get upset. There's 5 on the enemy team.
Ezlas (EUNE)
: So, I dodge a game
Yes. The system doesn't care who you were in champ select with before, so it's actually to protect you from being matched with those same players. And yes, because you made the enemy team, who had nothing to do with your team's cancer wishes, were thrown back into the queue too. You interrupt the game for 9 other players. That's not a good thing. It's sometimes justified, the lesser of two bad things, but that doesn't make it good. it also prevents players from abusing the system and dodging every time they get counterpicked, or are 4th or 5th pick, or for any other reason decide they don't want to play. Allowing free dodges would enable this kind of behavior, and make queues really long with champ select being interrupted so often. It would take a significant systems overhaul to make that stuff work differently, eg filling empty spots in the 10-player matchup with players from the queue rather than throwing the whole group back into the queue, but that's a lot of work even without considering potential abuse and designing around that. I've said for quite a while now that champ select is currently the biggest problem in the game, behavior-wise. More tools to deal with problems in champ select, more awareness, more data, more punishments; something is needed.
: So crashing is considered leaving?
Your computer's ability to handle the game is not Riot's responsibility, or your team's responsibility, only yours. You're also expected to have the foresight to not play during thunderstorms, strong winds, or other weather that can cause blackouts, nor to start games if there's a reasonable chance that you'll be interrupted or unable to finish the game. That said, there's a certain amount of leeway in the system, for real-life emergencies that indeed _should_ take precedence over a game, and for the rare, occasional times your computer has issues getting into the game. Riot recommends testing the stability in a custom game after each patch. Riot punishes patterns of bad behavior, patterns of problems. You being unable to play every game form start to finish is a problem, and it's really sucks for your teammates in the games when there's a leave, even a temporary one. Sounds like you got the "leaving is bad"-agreement prompt. Yes, crashing is leaving in the sense that it leaves your team in a 4v5. That's never good. If you very, very rarely have such crashes, there probably won't be an actual punishment.
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