ziffolo (EUW)
: Most of these advices, if followed, would result in a ban.
> [{quoted}](name=ziffolo,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=O2p2f1sz,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-17T16:11:14.777+0000) > > Most of these advices, if followed, would result in a ban. you will find it hard to prove that those are intentional.
Rioter Comments
: I so hate how this games behaviour is handled
find another game mate. league is dead toxic players getting banned for they wanting to win and being trolled. trolls are having the times of their life. league is a dead game cant remember when last time I had a decent game. just imagine what if riot didn't ban the people who cared about winning the game.
Bombard1r (EUNE)
: Riot Ineterest Behind Permanent Bans
yes I am wrong you all are so objectives, this is why every post against riot company receives immediately -10 votes in this board. maybe I am delusional and maybe I am not. anyway I have spent way too much of my time trying to explain what is wrong with the correct punishment system and why taking advantage of people addiction to make money is not right or ethical. I just hope that some players do read what am saying and understand why they are getting permanent ban so easily. and why is this punishment used by riot at the beginning. I will finish saying this: like every other game/company that have fallen greed is allways the cause. riot cares way too much about their profit. unless riot Internalize criticism given by the player, eventually the game will become pay2win or worse unfun. my tip is replacing the permanent ban with temporary bans of longer and longer periods of time. even if the player doesn't change he wont be able to offend others because he will be banned over and over again. farewell.
Shozis (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Bombard1r,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=BJe0JlQi,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2019-08-12T11:48:13.914+0000) > > maybe each country should take example of riot acts and exile her criminals instead of putting them in jail for rehabilitation? lets show them the door and just get rid of them. You could compare permaban to life imprisonment without a chance for parole. These punishments are not meant to rehabilitate or reform someone because these prisoners will never be released back into society and are pretty much locked up for life to protect the society from them. > permanent ban is unacceptable solution. > even if the minority does not act as you expect there are other ways of punishment which is much more humanlike So what would be an acceptable and humanlike solution then? Riot tried different things like more punishment steps and chat restrictions that could escalate to thousands of games, but nothing was effective. Sure, no system is ideal, but currently it's the best we have.
> [{quoted}](name=Shozis,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=BJe0JlQi,comment-id=00010000000100000000,timestamp=2019-08-12T14:04:16.900+0000) > > You could compare permaban to life imprisonment without a chance for parole. These punishments are not meant to rehabilitate or reform someone because these prisoners will never be released back into society and are pretty much locked up for life to protect the society from them. > > So what would be an acceptable and humanlike solution then? Riot tried different things like more punishment steps and chat restrictions that could escalate to thousands of games, but nothing was effective. Sure, no system is ideal, but currently it's the best we have. I honestly belive that banning a player for a long period of time is more effective. player that have lost his account for good has nothing to lose anymore and will more likely to be toxic\negative with a new account. this is why with every season the players become more and more toxic and negative. if you get a ban for a 2 month it is more likely that when you regain your account you will vaule it much more. even if you are still toxic, it is much less then with an account you are not afraid of losing. and please don't tell me about riot experiments over the years.
: >the real reason is: Profitable interest Mhm... Ok, look here how easy is to make an idea like this. What if I told you that they ban the toxic players because they make sad the players who invest money in this game?So removing the toxic player will make the game more relaxing and people will buy more stuff. They also ban the players who troll/int, but after manual reviews. Can you explain to me why my idea is not the main reason for banning the toxic players? How you will answer?
> [{quoted}](name=TheToysTracker,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=BJe0JlQi,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-08-12T14:01:49.279+0000) > > Profitable interest > > Mhm... Ok, look here how easy is to make an idea like this. > > What if I told you that they ban the toxic players because they make sad the players who invest money in this game?So removing the toxic player will make the game more relaxing and people will buy more stuff. > They also ban the players who troll/int, but after manual reviews. > > Can you explain to me why my idea is not the main reason for banning the toxic players? How you will answer? ok I don't know how much money riot pays you, plz tell me where can I send my CV? il be glad taking riot money like they have took mine. you still didn't answer my question. plz tell me that I am wrong and riot is not all about profit. why do they permanent ban and not ban for a long period of time if not for economic/financials goals. and do you actually belive that those toxic players accepting the ban and not opening a new account right after?
Tarolock (EUNE)
: if everything you say would be true then why do they only ban toxic ppl? they could get more money from banning every single player once a year and they would have to level up again = xp boosts and buy all skins again :D
> [{quoted}](name=Tarolock,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=BJe0JlQi,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-08-12T13:33:29.448+0000) > > if everything you say would be true then why do they only ban toxic ppl? they could get more money from banning every single player once a year and they would have to level up again = xp boosts and buy all skins again :D how many players do you know that have more then 1 account? (most of the players I know do actually) yes they will be make more money if they ban every single player but it will not seem right at all and it will be much too obviously. in my opinion at least 60% of the players in the game lost it and flamed twice or more. the chance of a non toxic player to get ban are not that low as you might think. anyway why do you think riot don't give you a 3 month ban or so? that's because you will wait the time or open a new account for a while (which u wont spend money on because it temporarly). much certain for them to ban you forever and make sure you do spend money on a new account.
Cypherous (EUW)
: > so let me understand, your claiming that prison goal is all about isolating the minority from the majority? Its about removing people who break the rule swhile offering them a chance to reform, you forget that before you get a permaban you already have to have had atleast a 14 day ban and in most cases 2 sets of chat restrictions prior, your permaban is in most cases your 4th punishment but in rare cases your second, you were given a chance to reform and chose not to take it, as with prison you are given a chance to reform and if you don't take it and then continue to break the rules your punishment escalates > there is no intention of directing those prisoners to regenerate? Thing is, you cannot force someone to reform, they have to want to reform, if they are given a chance to reform and then deliberately choose not to take it then there is nothing anyone else can really do for them > permanent ban should be viewed from both sides (the punisher and the punished) And it is, from riot's side they are removing a player who refused to reform despite being given the choice, from the punished players side its them ignoring the reform opportunity they were given and continuing to be toxic by choice > you keep testing permanent bans as gain and loss for the company and for the players There is nothing being "tested", if players don't want to follow the rules, and repeatedly display an unwillingness to reform then there really isn't any other choice, i'm really not sure what you're expecting riot to be able to do, they have no control over human actions and if a human being decides they want to be toxic and refuses to reform then there is quite literally nothing else riot can do but remove them > while I am arguing that this punishment is extreme and exaggerated Based on what exactly? Lets assume worst case scenario someone managed to skip straight to a 14 day ban, they have already ruined matches of atleast 4 people, considering that the only things that skip you to a 14 day are things like homophobia, racism and telling people to kill themselves (all of which are actually straight up illegal in addition to being against the rules), this means they have been extremely toxic, if after their 14 day ban they come back and manage to repeat the same behaviour thats another minimum of 4 people who have had to deal with this player and they deserve no sympathy In the vast majority of cases people actually end up affecting far more matches so the number of affected players starts to grow quite rapidly due to most permabans being a result of accruing a large number of reports against them for things like flaming and report calling, so lets assume it takes 10 matches to go from zero to permaban (that number is higher but its an easy starting point), assuming they never said anything in /all thats 40 players they have negatively affected with the number actually reaching as high as 90, why exactly do you feel that the punishment for ruining the matches of 40-90 players is exaggerated exactly? > I have played many competitive games and I find that this punishment does not make sence at all. Just because other communities baby their players that doesn't really change anything, the punishment here is fairly fitting considering the lengths people have to go to in order to earn that punishment in the first place, there is no other punishment that will actually work as they have already been tested or just straight up don't work > you need to be inhuman to renounce others for not acting the way you expect them to. Not really, society has rules, if you can't follow them you can't actually expect society to want to leave you alone, follow the rules or face the consequences, you're not going to convince anyone lol
> Not really, society has rules, if you can't follow them you can't actually expect society to want to leave you alone, follow the rules or face the consequences, you're not going to convince anyone lol it is very clearly to me that riot Allowing themselves to permanent ban accounts for the simple reason league is a skill based game and unlike other games you do not lose your experience (you do but levels does not mean much in league) and you still have the skills you have acquired to maintain your elo back (which is resetting every season anyway) and this is why people keep reopening accounts after being punished (things that is profitable for riot as I mentioned before). yet in my opinion it is not ethical to take advantage of the league addiction. I truly belive that permanent ban does not keep away the toxic players and that riot is aware of that. those who pay the price the most is those who are capable of change and still get permanent bans because of the Light hand on the trigger. because even if you do change your attitude. 2 out of 200 games of inappropriate behavior after 14 days ban punishment is enough for aggravating to permanent ban. (I don't know many people that does not lose it once in a while consistently) anyway you cant convince me that company narrows its customers intentionly. (as I said abusing players addictions) minority or not money is money and it does not matter which pocket\purse it comes from.
Cypherous (EUW)
: > of course riot should punish for inappropriate behavior Then what are you arguing about, break the rules and you get banned, its very open and shut and extremely easy to avoid > my point was that permanent ban is never a solution. do you think that give up a on person makes him a better person? And you think riot should become your personal shrink because? They literally have no options available, if they don't ban them they will continue to ruin matches, permanent chat restrictions don't work because it will just escalate to ingame trolling, riot doesn't have a magic wand to make people stop being toxic, it isn't down to them to fix human beings, its down to the human beings > should we as a society remove all the Less cultural as well? I mean we already do, its called prison
> I mean we already do, its called prison so let me understand, your claiming that prison goal is all about isolating the minority from the majority? there is no intention of directing those prisoners to regenerate? permanent ban should be viewed from both sides (the punisher and the punished) you keep testing permanent bans as gain and loss for the company and for the players while I am arguing that this punishment is extreme and exaggerated I have played many competitive games and I find that this punishment does not make sence at all. you need to be inhuman to renounce others for not acting the way you expect them to.
Shozis (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Bombard1r,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=BJe0JlQi,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-08-12T09:48:43.325+0000) > > my point was that permanent ban is never a solution. do you think that give up a on person makes him a better person? > should we as a society remove all the Less cultural as well? You should understand that permanent bans are not given to reform you or make you a better person, but to show you the door and tell you that you are not welcome in this game anymore because you failed to reform during the previous temporary punishments.
> [{quoted}](name=Shozis,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=BJe0JlQi,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2019-08-12T10:58:26.252+0000) > > You should understand that permanent bans are not given to reform you or make you a better person, but to show you the door and tell you that you are not welcome in this game anymore because you failed to reform during the previous temporary punishments. maybe each country should take example of riot acts and exile her criminals instead of putting them in jail for rehabilitation? lets show them the door and just get rid of them. because if you failed as a citizen the government (riot in this case) can and should find you unsuitable and unworthy within the majority (as you mentioned before). is that sound right to you? your words just describe what I am arguing about, permanent ban is unacceptable solution. even if the minority does not act as you expect there are other ways of punishment which is much more humanlike
Cypherous (EUW)
: > you should reaslise that if the company is not accepting your behavior it is not worth of your time or your money. No the thing you should be taking away from that is that your behaviour is unacceptable, why exactly should riot accept toxic behaviour? :P
You choose to delve into the least important issue of course riot should punish for inappropriate behavior my point was that permanent ban is never a solution. do you think that give up a on person makes him a better person? should we as a society remove all the Less cultural as well?
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Bombard1r

Level 194 (EUNE)
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