Mcgalakar (EUNE)
: Well, probably parenting is way harder than one can imagine (don't have kids, so no idea yet). But I guess the idea behind the action was: if you can't obey rules, you will lose something important for you. At this point, don't you agree that Riot idea of losing your account is similar to that case? Teaching something a hard way. Maybe in some cases this is the only way to teach someone something? If less violent methods do not work, maybe the violent ones will work?
you are not doing good job explaining your points buddy. you say fight violent with violent which I am sure you will also agree that is not the solution in any case. anyway if you really calming that this is the situation and this is what needed. once you have kids you will understand that the best way to educate them is with "The cane and carrot". some reward must have been given as well. this is exactly why permanent ban will never work and never be the right solution. this kind of punishment does not give any slice of chance it is like you said before "kicking your son out of house".
Hansiman (EUW)
: > how long is that period of time you speaking of? There's no specific time, since it's based on you actively showing that you've reformed. Dropping penalty tiers will take several months of actively playing. The reason there's no time set to it is so you can't just leave an account unused for x-amount of time while playing on a smurf, and then never risking a permaban. That wouldn't be good for reforming players. --- > so you have to narrow your toxic behavior to 0 for something like 1000 games. The average player isn't really toxic in more than 1% of their games, so 1/100. We're all human, and we all lose our cool from time to time. If you're punished for toxicity, you're stepping out of line in more games than what would be considered acceptable. --- > riot is basically giving toxic players no real chance to improve The current penalty tiers we have are the ones that have shown the highest reform rates, meaning that people that get these penalties are more likely to change their behavior. Most players that receive a 10 game chat restriction stop with the behavior that's getting them punished, and reformed. It's a minority of those that get a first penalty that don't reform, and need further penalties. The 14 day ban is only temporary ban we have left for verbal toxicity, since it's the only ban length that showed higher reform rates. Even permabans do show reform rates, because several players that create new accounts to play understand the consequences of their actions, and stop misbehaving on their new accounts. --- > even encouraging them to start over with a new account after knowing they are not able to change. It's not direct encouragment. Truly, if a player shows no interest in playing by the rules, Riot would rather have them go somewhere else. However, LoL is a F2P game. Anyone can create an account, at any time. It's not possible for Riot to prevent a permabanned player from creating a new account. If someone is requesting their banned accounts back because they still want to play the game, it's better for Riot to suggest you create a new account, since a permabanned account won't be returned.
it will be nice and if riot publish some DATA to make things clear for us the players. like for example: how many permanent bans have riot punished with over the years? what is the most known reason for that punishment? (I guess verbal abuse, probably the cause of auto system) what data makes riot belives that permanent ban is the best solution for toxic? what is considered toxic and the reason behind it? how often this auto system makes mistakes? what other solutions have riot considering? I truly think that showing some statistic and being honest with the community of the players can do no harm and also can sure quite the minds.
: while that's probably not an official rioter they act like riot's speakers in some cases so i say it's weird they encourage creating new accs even if you might have been a bit persistent but those are just lol players no different than boards users i guess
his name and his job at riot are written right below I did not publish it because its forbidden on this board. it is clearly not just a league of legend player. I know it is hard for you to admit that you are wrong sometimes but this is the situation in this case.
Hansiman (EUW)
: > You do not get the chance to "change your ways". it dosent matter how much time has been since your last warning and how much you have changed and try hard to act well, the next time you fail will be cruel either way. That's not quite true. First, you don't get permabanned straight away. For normal cases of verbal misbehavior, you go through several penalty tiers indicating your behavior is not in line with community standards. This is as follows: * 10 game chat restriction * 25 game chat restriciton * 14 day ban + final warning * Permaban Now, you also seem to suggest that if you have reformed, but step out of line a single time after a 14 day ban, there's no leniency. This isn't quite accurate, since you can drop down on the penalty tier if you display good behavior for an extended period of time while actively playing the game. That means, it's perfectly possible to get to a 14 day ban, reform, and drop down so that should you find yourself punished again in the future, you get a 10 game chat restriction. However, I wouldn't gamble on having dropped back down on the penalty tier, since you're never informed of it happening.
how long is that period of time you speaking of? from honor level 0 to honor level 2 takes how long (several months at least) so you have to narrow your toxic behavior to 0 for something like 1000 games. that is of course possible but insane as well. this is like telling someone on diet not to eat junk food for couple of years. (in case his will power isn't prefect he will somewhen fail) riot is basically giving toxic players no real chance to improve and even encouraging them to start over with a new account after knowing they are not able to change. ("money money money we DO need your money")
: > [{quoted}](name=Bombario,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=NYBVrKAf,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-08-15T09:03:14.881+0000) > > the toxic players come back and now trolls more and AFK more. the last thing competitive game needs is players who does not care about winning. And that is why we need zero tollerance and much more and quicker banning. Go ahead, start or buy a new account to level 30 and get banned right away in your first ranked game. I really do not understand people that thinkj it is ok to loose your cool or just troll from time to time. It is not. You all deserve to be banned, and if you continue to be toxic a perma ban is valid.
"trash talks" are part of each sport and are very common actually. in some sports they are even welcome banning players for being toxic effect the gameplay much more then some words being said in chat and can be muted if needed. this policy of riot banning toxic players for words like "you are bad" and "typical silver" is unique to riot games company. no such occurrence is known at other games. you ask riot to ban even for less then that are you insane?
: So who would you tell it to? To a reasonable person who doesn't cause any problems? Personally, if I had to level up a new account, or buy a new account every so often because I would get my self repeatedly banned, just to quench my "thirst for blood and revenge" I would seriously start thinking "what am I doing with my life?". Because when you lose an account, you don't only lose money -which, I am not saying, it's not important right?- you also lose progress and most important achievements. So, I can't tell if you are right about the effectiveness of bans, you maybe are, but, two things I want to make clear: 1) I do not agree that Riot is intentionally banning people to steal their money. 2) Bans are cruel. But as long as the company cannot find a better solution, please, if you ever get multiple chat restrictions and then a 15 days ban as well, please, change your ways. You walk on thin ice.
Bans are cruel. But as long as the company cannot find a better solution, please, if you ever get multiple chat restrictions and then a 15 days ban as well, please, change your ways. You walk on thin ice. You do not get the chance to "change your ways". it dosent matter how much time has been since your last warning and how much you have changed and try hard to act well, the next time you fail will be cruel either way. that is just because riot do not care if you get better and show progress (not all of us are saints). they do not care for statistic that show that you are the least toxic between 14 days to permanent which means players do try hard to behave well, they only care about money making.
Mcgalakar (EUNE)
: Not necessary. I know a real life case, where the kid books were thrown away (permanently) because he never cleaned his room as asked. Later those books were reacquired, either as b-day/x-mas presents or bought by that person when he got old enough to earn money. Still, the old books were lost forever. It served as a lesson (more to his parents than him, he still living in a total mess till now), and permabanned accounts serves as one also.
no offence but this is just the most stupid thing I have ever read. you punish someone by throwing away his stuff then get him new ones??? why not keep the thing and give it back when the kid gets better? what is the lesson here we as a parent are stupid and throwing money to the toilet?
: So they want toxic players to play the game. {{sticker:sg-lux-2}} In all seriousness. How would you explain the crafting system? If Riot wanted to take everything back in order for people to start over, they would not hand anything over in the first place. And it's not even limited. You can get a skin for free from any tier. I created a new account and got Elementalist Lux from the very first box I opened. For free. So they told me "here's the best and most expensive skin on this champion (I'd say in the game), so you do not need to get anything else". The reality is, by banning accounts, they just want to make it harder for toxic people to continue play. It's like you tell someone: "you now lost everything, there's nothing for you here better leave". Now, if this person wants to start over from scratch, that's his decision. I do not want bans. It's a cruel measure. And I am certain Riot doesn't want them either. This is the reason there are so many warnings before the final permaban. It surprises me, how there are people that just fail to behave like actual people after so many warnings. _An irrelevant opinion about people who get banned:_ After I started getting Ranks seriously (which was the worse mistake I could make on so many levels - ask any high Elo player who 'cares' about competition, I am sure he will agree), I started getting more and more frustrated after stupid loses. It was at that time, I decided to create a second account, basically, to become a jackass. I've read so many rude and passive-aggressive comments, I wondered how would I feel about it if I was the one writing them. Would that help me release some steam on games that seemed unfair? So, after I got my first and only punishment, which was a mere chat restriction for just a very few games, even though I had seen it coming, I didn't take it so well at all. I felt unwelcomed. And not just that - On my main account I had the highest honor level. I got every icon regarding honors when the system changed. And with that punishment, I felt I spit on the face of every single person ever that honored me. So I immediately started to play as much as possible, to level up, thinking I would somehow redeem for this (you don't). And that was on an account I didn't care! I am not a saint, I sometimes get frustrated up to this day. But I cannot imagine how people repeatedly behave like that, on an account they actually care about, after so many warnings.
> The reality is, by banning accounts, they just want to make it harder for toxic people to continue play. It's like you tell someone: "you now lost everything, there's nothing for you here better leave". Now, if this person wants to start over from scratch, that's his decision. > o this day. But I cannot imagine how people repeatedly behave like that, on an account they actually care about, after so many warnings. by telling someone (who is already toxic) you now lost everything there is nothing here for you, you better leave, you get exactly the opposite, you make him come back thirsty for blood and revenge even more toxic and much more frustrated. by punishing someone with permanent ban you solve nothing. the toxic players come back and now trolls more and AFK more. the last thing competitive game needs is players who does not care about winning.
: did u try using imgur?
https://imgur.com/gallery/cCR2cir
Mcgalakar (EUNE)
: Stated it above. Their target is to reform you (parent approach), not make you unable to play (police approach).
if it was so the ban was not for permanent it was for long period of time.
: **Welcome to Daily Dose of Conspiracy.** If you didn't know they can't block you from making a new account because they don't track private informations. The best they can do is to permaban your account because if they don't do this then your behavior will never change. Now...Why the fk you invest money again in your second account if you know that your behavior didn't change? They will keep banning you and take your money because they don't want toxic players in their game. A normal person will never invest in this game again after his first permaban.
Why encourage you to come back to play then??? why whould they offer me to open a new account??? Just because they want my money!!!
Mcgalakar (EUNE)
: It is because you think of a Riot like you would think about NA police (they see a black guy they shoot {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}} ). If it would be true, then Riot should create some way of identification to cease a possibility of creating accounts for some people (for example, based on our ID cards). But if you think about Riot as a parent figure (crappy parent but still parent), then the thing looks different. If you throw stones into neighbor window, you will get scolded on the first or second attempt. Later you could be grounded for a few days, and if you will still do (god, just find a different hobby!) they will take your monthly allowance or even a PC. But they will not kick you out from home, neither shoot you. Permanently banning an account is like taking away a PC of a naughty kid. But if they would ban your ID (like stated in the first example), it would be the same as kicking your son/daughter out of house, because s/he throws stones toward neighbor windows. Overkill.
Why encourage you to come back to play then??? why whould they offer me to open a new account???
Bombario (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Luther King Jr V,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=NYBVrKAf,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-08-15T07:43:05.796+0000) > > did riot actually tell you to start a new account themselves? hard to believe give me a second il upload the screenshot
having trouble uploading screen shot as URL give me your email and il send it to you
: did riot actually tell you to start a new account themselves? hard to believe wow
> [{quoted}](name=Luther King Jr V,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=NYBVrKAf,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-08-15T07:43:05.796+0000) > > did riot actually tell you to start a new account themselves? hard to believe give me a second il upload the screenshot
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Bombario

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