Zanador (EUNE)
: Do you mind if i use your own words against you? I just like to do it from time to time. >Let's take a new player. He is bad, he falls into the troll's pit as you call it. By improving himself and his own gameplay (this does not have to do anything with his teammates) he will eventually 100% sure get better teams and he will climb out of he pit. That's how the individual performance system works. He won't climb out of the pit in 2 or 3 games, it will take time depending on how deep he is. > Compare these two. >Now tell me, what human being can endure being shit on for weeks and flamed by teammates (while playing good or at least decent)? I mean for how long? Fine, I lose 3 games in a row, 5 games, 10 games, i'm ok with it. But when the matchmaking matches me with every flamer and troll, every single game, it becomes very very frustrating and at one point I can't take it anymore and I burst. > So, do you expect every single new player in the game to to through the process that turned you from a positive, nice player into your current state, and you call that an improvement? Does not seem to be one to me. Improving yourself is not a chance game. It definitely will make you climb the ladder. The problem usually is that most people simply don't know what to improve. There are literally hundreds of aspects that make a player good or bad, and most players only know about a fraction of them, and so they start improving the basics like laning and objective control, then get stuck. If anything, League would need a better official training course for intermediate and advanced players. And yeah, if you find the solution for the problem i presented, then contact me and i'll make sure you get your millions. One does not just go to the player-support of a game with these solutions, because they really won't be able to handle it.
First of all, I have to say that you should work for Riot. Both of you love to take things out of context. The new player has at least 30 levels of experience to become a decent player. He is not forced to play ranked games after he hits summoner level 30 either. Moreover he will be matched with people OF THE SAME SKILL LEVEL as him. Believe it or not, my skill level was under any circumstances no where near the skill level of other players i have been matched with. Having a certainty that by improving yourself, you will eventually climb the ladder will not turn any player from a positive, nice player to my "current state". Since I have fallen into the pit a lot of time has passed. The thing is I had no protection from being dragged back down by others if I managed to climb a bit. As you consider that improving yourself will definitely make you climb the ladder, could you provide certain and 100% accurate proofs of it? Can you honestly say that your chances of climbing the ladder are 100% if you improve yourself? Does the system not match you with people dragging you down under no circumstances if you improve yourself? If you say yes to these questions you are certainly lying and there's nothing more to talk. If I could I would unban my account and give it to you, while giving you a whole year to play on it and take it out of the current division it is in. This, considering the system will suffer no changes from how it is now. The moment you would use a single word that is considered foul language, you would lose. Also I would love to just sit and watch you getting poked in the eye by this and measure how long you would last. Then, and maybe only then, you would probably understand how unfair the current system is.
Zanador (EUNE)
: Once again, the details. The idea is not bad at all, but the details are way more difficult. First of all, the current grading system is farm from being perfect. Just check the supports. Second, as far as it seems, it still rewards selfish actions positively. For example, a Shyvana, who ganked your lane and after he got the kill took two whole wave's worth minion in seconds with aoe, then went back to the jungle? Probably will get a very high rank, while he still managed to inflict more harm to you than any advantage an assist got you. And what about the immeasurable factors of performance? Meaningful wards placed and cleared, instead of just the total number, or positioning, decision making, zoning, preventing damage.. heck the current system doesn't even count the shielded damage for supports. Communication, junglers showing their presence, mind games. Do you want me to continue the list? The grading system is very, very half baked yet, i only like it because it came with a nice way of earning skins for free for the first time. It is nowhere near refined enough to make it a good candidate for matchmaking, and years have gone into researching and developing it already. The most difficult parts are the ones missing. And yes, those parts are worth millions for the game studios, without question.
I never said this is perfect, I just said this will improve the game alot. Also, not even the idea is perfect, but if you have time and funds (like Riot has) you can give it a little thought and I'm 100% sure that whatever gets out of it will improve the current system by even a tiny bit. Hell, even putting this very, very half baked system i presented into function, the game will be a lot more fair and balanced.
Zanador (EUNE)
: Never said that you should be above the rules because you paid? >Also, I invested around 300 euros in that account. I'm toxic in chat? Fine, perma ban my chat, but don't restrict my access to play the game on an account that I spent more than pretty much any Buy-To-Play game out there. Then you seriously misrepresented yourself here. I know that you want simple chat restriction on chat-based toxicity, but then why mention all the money you have spent? And why say that anything should take your money into consideration at all? There are many ways to tell the truth, and most of them does not invoke a ban, not even a chat restriction. you chose the wrong way to get your point across. What you seem to believe to be standing up for yourself was deemed to be toxic. That's all. If your attitude was indeed positive initially, then i'm sorry for all that happened to you. However you did misunderstand me when i mentioned "actual leadership skills". Shotcalling is not leading. A shotcaller might truely know what is best for the team, but he might or might not be able to make the others listen to him. A leader can make his team work with him. The difference is the method and the results. Still, you answered this question too. And yes, i did criticize your endurance. Do you believe me if i said that everyone who has played any significant amount of matches in this game has been through the same as you? Every single player. And while i do think that this should not be the case, and it's both Riot's and the community's job to change this situation, unfortunately you did criticize people for not being able to take a few harsh words, so i felt it right to point this out to you: those people probably took the same beating you did, and didn't lose their temper. Now to your suggestion. It is a good one, it just has an inherent problem, that is known and to my knowledge hasn't been solved yet: The Prisoners' Island problem. The system you suggested would match trolls and bad players with other trolls and bad players, It has been tested to work like this, and there are quite many games which run similar systems. The problem is the following: how do you avoid new players, or simply bad players falling into the troll pit, where their chances of climbing will be reduced to close to zero? And how do you help people in reforming and leaving that pit? Is it a realistic expectation for anyone who has fallen into the troll pit to climb out of it with a healthy attitude and improved sense of morality and teamwork? And how about playing with a friend who is on the "prisoners' island"? By definition you'd have to play among the trolls too if your friend was there, so more likely than not, you'd just stop playing with him or rage and become "imprisoned" too. Riot also tested this system a couple of years ago, and if you look into it, there really are games that are currently using it too. As i said, the devil lies in the details. If someone figures out a solution, i'd probably support changing the systems in every way i could, but i'd rather have a system that has some trouble handling toxicity than one that actively generates toxicity. And in the end you call me ignorant. You talked about vague ideas, contradicted yourself on several point, and didn't go into details, but i must be an ignorant robot for pointing this out. By the way, thanks for asking, my feelings are fine. Also i do not ignore the problems, i'm currently trying to fix one too. Have a nice day.
You seriously did not understand the system I presented. Let's take a new player. He is bad, he falls into the troll's pit as you call it. By improving himself and his own gameplay (this does not have to do anything with his teammates) he will eventually 100% sure get better teams and he will climb out of he pit. That's how the individual performance system works. He won't climb out of the pit in 2 or 3 games, it will take time depending on how deep he is, but he will know that he has a 100% success rate to climb out of the pit simply by improving himself. Today's system is based on luck. Doesn't matter how good or how bad you play, it's all random matchmaking. You could be 0/20/0 with 0 contribution to the teamwork and still win, therefore climbing the ladder, and vice versa. Now you know that IF you improve yourself there MIGHT be a chance for you to climb the ladder. It MIGHT happen or it MIGHT NOT. This isn't a Casino Game, is it? Even if i'd take the time to think this whole system through and make an actual plan with full details and such, i'm pretty sure that Riot will not even notice it, or if they do, they'll throw a rock at me saying "here, play with this, peasant". As for everything else you have said I have no comments, except that I hope you fix that problem you have and you will be ok. Have a nice day as well.
Magneset (EUW)
: Personally i think they should make the chat less attractive. I know there is a lot of toxic chat in other games aswell but in those games the chat box aint as dominant as it is in league. When i played Overwatch the chat box was almost completely unnoticable to me. I think that Riot should make the chat box smaller and fit it into a corner somewhere. In all honesty we dont really need it in the first place and people would adapt to only using pings.
I completely agree. Also, give punishments according to the felony done. If you are toxic in chat only, restrict the access to chat, more and more, until permanently. If you are toxic in gameplay, restrict the access to gameplay, more and more, until permanently.
Magneset (EUW)
: What else can you do? The only option you have is to report them after the game is over. 1 report is enough to trigger the system anyway. So as soon as someone is toxic just mute and report afterwards. As long as Riot wont take further steps nothing will ever change.
That's the thing, Riot has to make a change. Let's take a step back and think about why there is toxic chat in-game. Why do people actually flame? 90% of the time it is because the difference in skill level of players in the same team is too big. Someone makes a mistake, doesn't see it, but the more experienced guy in his own team sees it and points it out. The one who did the mistake can't accept that another guy in the same league as him points out a mistake he did so he gets cocky. Therefore a flame war starts. Reports don't solve anything. You get a toxic player now, you mute and ignore him, you report him. Whether he gets punished or not you are very unlikely to play with him ever again (unless you want to). Next game starts, you get another toxic player, you report this one too, again very unlikely to play with him again. Next game, next toxic player. I don't see how this solves the problem. Ideas and suggestions for an actual possible, more accurate system of matchmaking and rating have already been said countless of times. But then again, Riot doesn't give a shit about the playerbase. Change the system or we riot! Oh wait, nope, 90% of the players are just ignoring the problem.
Zanador (EUNE)
: Here comes the million dollar question.. probably quite literally: There are three players, A, B and C. All of them end with a 1/10/2 stat. Player A had this stat because he picked his safe champion to top, but his team fed mid and bot hard because they got countered, yet player A still had to try and initiate fights if there was an opportunity. They end up winning the game, huge thanks to A, who ended up with low assistance count because the enemy team had a good disengage, and usually he didn't even get an assist by the time the enemy champions died. Player B simply picked his favorite champion for top because he was first pick, got promptly destroyed there, came to help for teamfights, but he was just outmatched. In the end what little he could do might have helped, might not have, yet they won somehow. Player C is a very good player, he just didn't put everything into the game this time. He could have carried without trouble if he cared, but since he didn't, even when he came for teamfights, he wasn't much of a help. And here is the question to make you rich: How do you make a computer to be able to tell the difference between these players? The first player actually performed well, the second one tried, the third one was lazy and just got carried. Do they deserve the same LP modifiers since their numerical performance was the same? Do we need to modify the system each patch to account for getting hard counters, or they don't matter? Does it matter if someone nearly throws the game by not caring enough, if his performance was still somewhat adequate? And how does a computer judge this for millions of matches each day? Seriously if you know the answers, publish it, and you'll be rich.
In order for this scenario to happen there are some more conditions you didn't state: Player A, despite not having much kills/assists he must've have done much more than player B and C, which could be damage dealt to champions, damage taken, towers destroyed, minions killed (therefore splitpush) or things like that. All of these are already implemented in the game and are already calculated by the current system. Player B, contributed much less than player A to the win, therefore less damage to champions, damage taken, towers destroyed, objectives taken etc. Player C, even tho he could've carried because he's a good player, he didn't care, therefore again, his contribution to the win was much less. And to answer your questions that "makes you rich" (it doesn't, by the way): There is already a similar system implemented, the champion mastery grade (that S/A/B/C/D you get at the end of the game) which basically calculates you performance on a certain champion taking in consideration all parameters I stated above, compared to those of other players in the same game and gives you a grade for it. What I'm saying is that they have all the puzzle pieces already implemented, all they have to do is put them together as a whole. Hell, even if there would not be "created" any other system, just slightly change the matchmaking to match more accurate with the current systems they have already implemented, it would improve the game alot. To explain this I'll give you an example: There are players X, Y and Z. Player X has played 100 ranked games. Out of all the games, the most common champion grade was A- (he sometimes got Bs, sometimes got Ss etc). So his rating is A-. Player Y has also played 100 ranked games and has a rating of C+. Player Z has been trolling and fed alot in these 100 games so his grade is D. Wouldn't it be more fair and healthy to make the matchmaking match player X with other players that have a rating of A/A-/B+, player Y with C+/C/C- and player Z with D+ and D instead of taking them all together and putting an S rating player with a D rating player in the same team? Keep in mind this can all be done with what IS CURRENTLY IMPLEMENTED IN THE GAME. Feel free to take this idea and get rich, by the way.
Zanador (EUNE)
: You are an interesting case study indeed. You talk about people standing up for themselves, making corporations do what is right and what the people want. Then you flat out claim that you should be above the rules because you spent money. Apparently, you are fighting yourself. On the topic of harsh language and kids: do you really think that the world is becoming better because 10 year olds learn to curse like a sailor? Is that truely the way forward? Or should we just accept being shit on and move on with our lives, to use your own words? Like it or not, League is a lot more complex than you seem to think. You talk about how you do the mechanical things well, and you'd probably be a decent teammate too if there wasn't a chat function in the game. However verbal communication is a skill to. Mental and physical endurance are factors too. You never talked about your base attitude, teamwork, and actual leadership skills, not just telling people what is right or wrong, but actually leading them. You say that everyone who got further than you just likes "to be shit on" in contempt, while in reality their endurance seems to be far superior to yours, you just want to portrait your weakness as real strength and righteousness. By experience, the way you talk here, i'd probably pick a mechanically weaker teammate anytime over you into my team. Not because i don't like you, disagree with you or anything like that, but simply because it seems to me that you need to sort a lot of things out for yourself, and it does affect your performance. And your solution? "Make the system do an individual check (like the performance rankings". Good idea at first glance, but how exactly? Give us the details, otherwise there isn't much to discuss. Match players based on their average performance? Then people who play weird and rate champions would get quite high MMR since the performance is based on champion-relative scores. So a good Yorick player would be matched as a top tier player while even an excellent Gragas player would be lower because of the amount of games pro teams play with that champion. And what about one trick ponies? Sure someone might be one of the best Zed players in the world, and gain a high MMR with him, but when Zed gets banned and he is forced to play a champ he didn't pick for 3 years, then what? The match making is already over, the system can't help you there anymore. Oh, he will get a lower rating eventually? Only if his main is banned enough. So let's make it champion specific, like the Team Builder. Good idea, until you realize that a challenger player can get into a bronze match by simply picking a champion he didn't play yet. It's very easy to say that the current system is not the best, simply because it really isn't. It is also easy to point in general directions where you think the answer might be, because you are rarely wrong that way. But unless you give detailed plans, you can't claim that a 3-line sentence is the perfect solution for everything.
I never said I should be above the rules. I said the rule isn't fair and I gave a solution for it to be a little bit more fair. The world isn't be becoming worse either because of it. What I'm saying is they need to do a background check before throwing bans up and down. I will not just accept being flamed, trolled and so on, so yes, sometimes I will tell people the truth. If they cannot get common sense then they are idiots or they pretend to be. Me: Please don't dive, you will die. Teammate: Fuck off jackass. *dives and dies* Me: *after a while* Please don't dive again, you will die again. Teammate: I know better, bitch *dives and dies* Me: Mate, you are an idiot. System: *bans C9 Shiny* Kappa As for my attitude, it has been a great one, but it fell while going thru so many examples like the one above. Leadership skills? I always call or at least try to call the shots, but 95% of the time I am ignored. I mean I would ignore myself too, why do dragon/baron when they are all dead when we can go base, farm some wolves (all 4 together, the same camp) then move to frog and so on, until they all spawn. Why destroy a turret when I as a jungler gank and you as a midlaner/toplaner get the kill and we're both above 50% hp with the wave pushing, with no enemy jungler nearby, when you can just go do rift scutler until the enemy is back on lane. As for teamwork, I always tried to help every single lane no matter what role I played, even if they flamed and fed. This is what I get in return tho, comments with my endurance is weak. But tell me now, if there's a way the system of matchmaking can be improved, which doesn't require so much "endurance", why not do it? Oh, right. Where would be the fun in trolling then, because if you're a troll you'd be matched with other trolls and trolls can't troll other trolls. Now about the improvement, because you got it all wrong. I said there should be a rating system LIKE (which means SIMILAR to) the champion mastery grading (S/A/B/C/D) but not for certain champions. It should take all these factors (damage done, kda, CS, kill participation, turret destroyed, wards bought/placed, etc - they have so much info about the game already) in consideration and make a general grade for each league. Basically I'm saying that they already have implemented all the puzzle pieces in the game (if you look at match history you can even see where the kills were made and such), all they need to do is put them together, leave the current system (if you win you get + ranking, if you lose you get - ranking, no matter how bad or how good you play) active, but also run another system in the background that calculates your personal score and for further games matches you with teammates who have a similar personal score. This way you eventually get matched with teammates that actually want to play and win (also against them, which will be nice as it will be interesting games) and not with trolls who trolled the past 20 games and they continue to do so. I myself don't have the skills (i could probably acquire them), nor the resources (I'll never have them unless I work for Rito, which is not what I'm asking here, just in case your common sense doesn't work) to make this system, but Riot certainly has both. As for the idea, I'm pretty sure I'm not the first one to suggest it, nor the last one, it's just that the Rioters don't give a shit about their playerbase at all. It's very easy to say "nice suggestion, go post it on the boards, because I can't take it to my coworkers" as a Riot player support, and now I understand why as well. There are and will always be people like you all over the internet that say we have to just ignore a problem instead of dealing with it. What are you, robots? Don't you have feelings and shit? How long can you ignore a problem until your limit is reached? How long can something poke you in the eye until you tell it to stop?
: You honestly think that there will be some kind of revolution? Riot is making millions regardless of what you feel. And it's always been that way too. This is jsut you trying to make the game (and miserably failing) to benefit YOU. You don't want to improve the system, you want to it to be bias and make it so you win more games rather than make a healthy game. In reality, you can win most games, you simply hvae to be good enough So in short: you are frustrated that you aren't good and think it's the game's fault while in reality, it's simply you being bad.
So me suggesting a solution to improve the matchmaking so it will be more accurate is just me (i'm the only one that thinks the system is bad atm) trying to turn it in my favor and being matched more accurately with similar skill level players isn't a healthier game. But yes, it's just me being awfully bad and blaming it on others. It's my fault the system matched me (having decent stats, including farm, objectives, kill participation, roaming and everything else) with someone who trolled in the last 20 games and continues to do so. It is my fault some random guy I get matched with either has connection problems (which happens to everybody) or just decides to quit in the middle of the game. And I could go on. But then again, if you don't see the bigger picture then what i'm saying is pretty much useless for you.
S0kaX (EUNE)
: 3 people fighting over support? that's something i have to see to believe.
They're like shiny pokemons, they exist but there's a low chance to encounter that.
: Nope, you missed the point. I'll make it a bit more simple: The only thing you can do is focus on your own indiidual play and learn from every mistake. There's nothing you can do about the people you get matched with but you can learn from your matches. There's always something you can improve.
Although I agree with focusing on your own individual play and learn from every mistake, you missed the point. There is something we can do about the people we get matched with, but we, as players can't do it, the system has to be slightly changed. We, the players offered suggestions and solutions, but we don't have the power/permission to alter the system files, so it's about as much as we can do. In that moment when there will be more people standing up for themselves, the system has to change or it loses it's target market. But as long as the majority is in agreement with you, saying there's nothing I can do, the system will not change. This is how everything is designed today, to give you the impression that you have freedom of choice and everything, and that "things just happen, we can't do anything about them" mentality is the right and healthy one to use.
: I get that, I get that all too well, I am not gonna drop my life's story on you but lets just say this I know exactly how you feel but I got past my issues because the only way you are gonna get anywhere is to keep going forward and I know its hard and I know it felt like you were talking to a dummy and I am sorry but I ask these dumb questions over and over so I can understand because I forget some parts of my common sense very easily which yes a lot of people do and I know you are sick of being this carry but you aren't the only person that goes through this and if they are willing to say fuck everyone else and carry on, you can do that too, you just have to have the determination, and I will say you have proven your point and I am sorry but I cant help you but I can tell you, you cant let some bullshit like this stop you, and yes I derived you were a child because you got annoyed, I do too, so does everyone, you know whats the difference is that people will loose their arms and legs and dignity and still keep going forward why, because its fucking worth it, you may not know it, I may not know it but that's reality buddy so if this is how it is for you, revel in the fact that you will be there where those rich people that have to do squat fall and you can be there to laugh
Hopefully your last comment wasn't out of pity for me. I will keep going, thanks, but with league, there's just absolutely nothing for me to go on with. My account is gone, I've been punished in many ways because I tried to help others and I offered advise and such, but at some point (might be a shit day in real life) I just couldn't cope with it anymore, lost it, said a bad word and bam, without any background check and stuff, there it was, permanent ban. They could have at least the decency to show all the chat, not just my lines in the ban "log" or whatever it's called. Taking it out of context is easy. For example I could say "The word retard is a bad word" and then you can quote me like "C9 Shiny said -retard-", bam, banned.
: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Shiny,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=qYeE0QNF,comment-id=00110000,timestamp=2016-08-10T18:49:47.806+0000) > > Fine, so in order to climb I need to carry my 0/12 intentionally feeding teammate. Ok fair enough until now. > But what if this happens 9/10 games? When will I be "carried" by one or more of my teammates? The guy I am carrying who goes 0/12 also climbs the ladder, at the same pace with me. Why? because he's luckier than me. I have to work my ass off and tryhard every game to carry myself and my team, while he just derps around doing nothing and get carried, in the end being at the same "skill" level as me. > How's this for fair? > > On the keeping cool matter, how many lost games in a row (regardless of how many breaks you take between them) does it take for you to just not being able to take it anymore? Unless you are a robot or you don't care at all about ranking and climbing (in this case you don't play ranked, or if you do, you are the troll), at some point you will break. > > It's like poking someone in the eye with a stick every day and expect him to be polite, keep his calm and respect you. > > Martial Arts is a single-player sport, if you lose it's your mistakes alone, or your lack of skill alone. No matter how good of a martial art fighter you are, if you go in a battle 5v5 and the people who you trust the most, who you are supposed to help you win, they stab you, will you keep your calm and try to win the fight not only for yourself, but also for those who stabbed you in the back? Do you really have someone who feeds to that extent in every game? Remember, the enemy team has just as much chance of getting a feeder as you. So statistically that one feeder would not do more damage to you than anyone else. Basically at the start of a match, both teams have equal chance of getting feeders and afk's; and yet some people still succeed in climbing so the existence of feeders cannot be the one factor determining climbing or non-climbing, I'd say. I had my fair share of annoying stuff last ranked period I had, but I climbed eventually to high silver at least. When it got annoying, I took a break. Now I have had a long break, and I am spending this break time training and becoming better at the game so that I can have an easier time in lane helping my fellow laners. I definitely understand that a long losing streak can ruin the mood, but that's why most recommend you take a break and do something else when you're on a losing spree. Do some fun, non-ranked matches and just try to work on what you can work with. You can't do anything to avoid feeders or afkers, but you can train your own skills to the point where 4 VS 5, you can still hard-carry those matches. I am not saying it's easy nor am I trying to discredit your feelings on the matter, I get that it can be frustrating. Single player sport or team based sport, the advice accounts for the same. Regardless of what you seek to do in life; we still foremost can only change/master/grow ourselves. I am the only thing I can control. I can't control my team mates and I cannot control my enemies. All we can do is work on improving ourselves, and combat the hinders we ourselves set up in front of us. If you think that you cannot win; then you won't. That's a matter of attitude causing effect. If we do not believe we can succeed, we won't. Others are climbing to gold, plat, diamond and higher, and those have had the exact same issues on their path as you are facing now. The reason I am only in high silver is because I am not good enough to get higher yet, or we'll see about that when next I start ranked again, but still. All I can do is do my best to improve and work on gaining skill and knowledge enough to get higher up. I have to deal with myself, it won't help much worrying about everyone else.
> [{quoted}](name=MorganKaines,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=qYeE0QNF,comment-id=001100000000,timestamp=2016-08-10T19:03:41.608+0000) > > Do you really have someone who feeds to that extent in every game? Remember, the enemy team has just as much chance of getting a feeder as you. So statistically that one feeder would not do more damage to you than anyone else. Basically at the start of a match, both teams have equal chance of getting feeders and afk's; and yet some people still succeed in climbing so the existence of feeders cannot be the one factor determining climbing or non-climbing, I'd say. > This is exactly the problem. It's a random chance. It's not 50/50, it could be you that will get the feeder 9 out of 10 games, and the enemy will get it 1 out of 10 games. It's a matter of LUCK, which is wrong in competitive play. When there is something that can be done to even slightly improve this, then it must be said and suggested. Don't have that mentality that says "Oh well, the system will not be improved, so my best chance is to continue eating shit from others". We don't have to accept everything as it is even if we don't find it fair or right just because we "have to deal with ourselves, it won't help much worrying about everyone else". As long as the system was created by someone and it has been proven many times that it can be changed, it will continue to be a matter of change. But if we don't say or do anything about it, it won't change by itself. Hardly you will see your boss giving you a raise without you asking for it, even if you deserve it.
: Dude I don't like playing ranked because of flamers and worst of all I don't even tilt them, they tell me I keep doing shit wrong when they are the ones that are 0 for 9, I am playing this season to get better so when I feel confident after a normal win streak I play a ranked game and check my performance, if it was good then I know I need to keep practicing, if it was bad then I must check and improve where I am fucking up on, don't get me wrong I look like a casual but unlike most people I never stop tryharding in fact I hate to surrender, and I try my best not to feed so your evaluation of me is false first of, secondly why I say you are a kid is because a lot of adults do swear but they know when to stop and can control themselves where as you cant as your nice caps lock rant in your message prior, and if it is possible for league to make an algorithm to improve your matchmaking not based on mr but based on player skill because of the decisions they made then give me evidence as I know code and I know the tedious process of typing out hundreds of pages of it and to deal with the errors show me proof that what you are saying is true
* * * * * They already have that. + the champion mastery grade (S/A/B/C/D) + probably other things that are hidden or we, as players, just don't have access at them. Put this all together in a system, make a general idea for every league (for ex, 3 minions/minute average for bronze, 4 for silver etc) and bam, there you have it. You went 0/20/0 and farmed 3 minions in 40 minutes while being ADC? we will not place you next game with a guy who has a decent score of 6/6/6 and 166 minions in 30 minutes. If even from this you don't understand my point (although I explained many times now), then it's just impossible for me to draw for you. As for my caps rage earlier, I hoped it would bring a *ding* over your head saying "this all caps text is and should be for you too common sense, as it has already been stated before", but all you got from that is that I'm a kid. Yes, it pisses me off, alot when people just can't understand common sense. About controlling it, I do control it, as of now, but you don't know my life and the things I got through, whether I am in a stage of depression or not, etc. Just for the sake of this and under the stage of anonymous, I, as many others am a "modern slave" as I like to call it. I have to obey and do what a stupid human being says, just because he was lucky enough to be born in a rich family and inherit a fortune of a company, while he can't even count to 10 properly. So yes, I am tired of trying to make people understand common sense, I am tired of working my ass off while others do shit and they get paid just as much or even more as me just for the simple fact that I'm "carrying" them and doing their job because I am forced to, not because I like to. I may not have the necessary development qualifications, nor the resources to make this system alone, but Riot certainly has both.
Owyn (EUNE)
: > being "toxic" in chat being the only rule he broke, he should be (after the usual disciplinary punishment steps) permanently suspended from using the chat only, This is so obvious that it's not needed to be suggested. and 2nd obvious thing: - banning people for bad chat just gonna make them register new account and do it again (cuz chat won't be muted on their new account from the start), plus it would ruin even more, not just chat but not-smurf players (cuz new account needs to be leveled up) but, you know, suggestions are barely implemented. Riot doesn't even answer. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
Apparently it is needed to be suggested. The lack of common sense from others got me in this situation after all.
: This game is not for you then, it requires a degree of self discipline and if you cant stop some simple tendencies then you really are inferior to those of us who try hard and do our best and say fuck the trolls in our heads or written down on a piece of paper, you are pathetic if you cant just ignore them. And I a not defending Riot don't go assuming shit, if this kind of stuff was possible Riot would have done it just wrapped up in a ninny for you cowards but since they haven't it means that it is not possible and despite your pathetic and meagre attepts to make yourself seem like the victim you have only proven that you aren't capable of self control and therefore you are a kid in an adults game
You have played 21 ranked games this season. You did imply that you don't care whether you win or lose the game. Therefore you are a casual, you play this game only for fun and for passing the time, not in a competitive way. Yet, you come here and call me pathetic because I can't stand being matched with people just like you, who are basically the root of the toxicity. You call this an adult game yet I have been banned for using foul language. Adult game? Man up and take it, because I will never flame anyone without having a reason for it. I have explained you multiple times that this is possible, yet you don't even understand my point. Thank you for being the root of this game's toxic community.
: While I get the frustration, it's just unavoidable. You could be the best player, but you might have the worst player on the team. So are you going to carry because you are THAT much better than everyone else despite the feeder or will the worst player ruin the game because you are incapable of undoing of what that player does. That's the question really? How good are you? Are you good in the laning phase? In teamfights? Objective calls? Micro/Macro play? Csing?.... If you hit all these points and still have problem than maybe it's mentally. Maybe you drag yourself down and psychologically set yourself up for a loss. You can't tell me that you don't have any flaws. Don't get me wrong, I too struggle with how meaningless it at times can feel but that doesn't mean that I'm without fault. The only thing you can really do mate, is to look at yourself objectively and work on that. I'm not saying it is easy to do that considering how idiotic some players can be both mechanically and in terms of mental state but that's all you can really do. A post complaining about it, is not going to change a damn thing. Get good or quit.
So the TL;DR version is: Accept being shit on (despite you are a good person) and try to get better at getting shit on, or just kill yourself. Sounds about right. This is how you enslave people. Why would you want a change in the system that could make it decent for everyone? Nah, just deal with getting shit on or kill yourself.
: I would argue it's not at all hopeless to win with a fed enemy ADC, because I've seen it done enough times to know it's still fully possible. Not by repeating the same stuff that got that enemy laner fed, but through changing tactics, items and generally upping your game. We once won a game in which the enemy ADC got fed to the point where he'd roam the map just to collect kill after kill. I tweaked my build and began a "Kill the Vayne" spree... As Sona support. And we did turn that game around, we did win. I made it my mission in every team fight to take out that Vayne first. There's no such thing as an unwinnable fight, lest people give up and start flaming instead of thinking what to do to fix the situation. One person can feed, that won't lose you the game. One lost lane doesn't equate a lost game, if you can compensate for it in other ways. I've lost lane tons of times, and yet we managed to turn it around mid-phase of the match when we grouped up and changed our tactics. It's a team game, and one really have to play as a team. Even 4 VS 5s can be beaten if you got the right attitude and keep your cool during the game, instead of giving up early. I'd say attitude is #1. Martial Arts teachers will tell you the worst enemy you can face, is yourself. We get distracted because we're annoyed at that feeding mid or the ADC who can't make up her mind, then we'll likely start making mistakes. If we instead focus and think strategy we can handle whatever issue comes from someone else's play and play around it; that's what's in carrying. I am not saying it's easy, but that's what I think really can help you get ahead in this game, ensuring you have a strong, focused and positive mindset so you can overcome whatever challenges your enemy team, or even your own team, sets in front of you.
Fine, so in order to climb I need to carry my 0/12 intentionally feeding teammate. Ok fair enough until now. But what if this happens 9/10 games? When will I be "carried" by one or more of my teammates? The guy I am carrying who goes 0/12 also climbs the ladder, at the same pace with me. Why? because he's luckier than me. I have to work my ass off and tryhard every game to carry myself and my team, while he just derps around doing nothing and get carried, in the end being at the same "skill" level as me. How's this for fair? On the keeping cool matter, how many lost games in a row (regardless of how many breaks you take between them) does it take for you to just not being able to take it anymore? Unless you are a robot or you don't care at all about ranking and climbing (in this case you don't play ranked, or if you do, you are the troll), at some point you will break. It's like poking someone in the eye with a stick every day and expect him to be polite, keep his calm and respect you. Martial Arts is a single-player sport, if you lose it's your mistakes alone, or your lack of skill alone. No matter how good of a martial art fighter you are, if you go in a battle 5v5 and the people who you trust the most, who you are supposed to help you win, they stab you, will you keep your calm and try to win the fight not only for yourself, but also for those who stabbed you in the back?
Trias000 (EUNE)
: I think it's players who need to start thinking about which game they chose to play and why. If they want to win singlehandedly, why did they choose to play a **team** game?
We don't want to win "singlehandedly", WE ARE FORCED TO DO SO if we want to climb! Do you really think we love playing with teammates who don't want to cooperate and help the team win? If we did then we wouldn't have complained in the first time and this post wouldn't even exist. Please stop tilting others with your ass-kissing for Riot and your poor judgement. Sorry if this offends you, actually not sorry, this should be common sense.
: Yes they could do that or they could release more content for people to buy because its expensive, this kind of coding is very complex and if for example your gameplay isn't polished you could end up in lower MMR anyway, maybe you decide not to commit to a fight because you know you are caught out and for this the system punishes you harshly etc etc, its very difficult to code for all these variables and as an IT student it takes literally a page for just one, for this it would take an animation studio's number of computers and programmers just to develop this so unless league gets about say 2 million more rich players it aint gonna happen
Mate, they already have ALL THE PARTS FOR IT. THEY ALREADY IMPLEMENTED A SYSTEM LIKE THIS, BUT FOR A CERTAIN CHAMPION. ADAPT IT TO BE IN A MORE GENERAL IDEA AND BAM, THERE YOU HAVE IT. SIMPLE AS THAT. I am really tired of this. I don't know why you are trying to defend them, but this is my last reply to you, sorry. It's not like I asked them to invent the time machine. They already have all the puzzle pieces, all they need to do is to put them head to head. I am not saying this will be perfect or will solve the problem completely, but AT LEAST it will improve it and it will make it a bit more fair for players like me. But yes, better release more skins and shit. Why have a constant income for a longer period of time when you can just get all the cash you can for the next few years until the game becomes unplayable and dies. As someone said on this forum, as a reply to the "last game is past, it's a new game with new teammates, all you need to remember are your mistakes" crap: PEOPLE HAVE FEELINGS, THAT STUFF IS FOR ROBOTS.
NichtHurz (EUW)
: But mmh, I've never heard of anyone I know who got punished for verbal abuse/unsportsmanlike conduct and got instantly permabanned. If one gets instantly permabanned just for verbal abuse that would mean this person said some really really bad things. Besides botting/scripting/boosting (by letting others play on your account to gain better ranks) I wouldn't know what could cause this. Only thing I've recently learned is that you can instantly get a 14 day ban if just one game of intentional feeding is being detected (which may happen on the first game or on the 30th game, due to a bad tracking system). The only punishment I've ever got was this thing where you get longer queue times for leaving games, which happened due to random connection problems I couldn't control. I'm playing since 2009, so I've had quite some time to collect punishments. I don't mean to disrespect you, but there has to be something you won't tell here or you don't see as a big problem (even tho it has to be if it really was an instant ban for verbal abuse. Of course I sometimes get tilted as fuck and hate my team so much I'd not even blink with an eye if they fell into a volcano full of lava, but in the end I just won't give a fuck and give those idiots a stupid reason to report me. If people are being hardcore douchebags in an onlinegame they're not even worth the effort of using my keyboard to answer their bullshit.
I've had a 14 days suspension before, for the same reason, however the "ban log" included several games of my chat in which I flamed. This perma ban was for 1 game only. If I log in now the log shows the chat (my chat only, how nice by the way) for only my last game. It wasn't nasty stuff, it was just "please shut up and leave me alone", some explanations and i called someone a retard when I just couldn't take it anymore. Better ban me tho, and support the trolls/intentional feeders so they can tilt others like me that will also get banned. P.S: Nobody was banned for intentionally feeding unless there was a concrete proof (them saying in chat that they feed intentionally). In other cases it's just marked as "unskilled" or "having a bad game" and he's fine. That's the problem with automatic systems. "Why did you flame? Did you actually try to reason with them? Let's have a look at your recent matches and their chat. It seems you have been unlucky lately and it's understandable, try to keep it quiet/we will have to ban your chat temporary/permanently CONSIDERING you didn't break any other rule. " - but I guess it's too much to ask.
: Not exactly because the team I am in, there are people who are better than me and they get matched with stronger players against them, so for e.g your scenario, matchmaking will put teams against them that are at least the same level or next to the same, yes sometimes matchmaking gets it wrong because you get those players that despite their rank underperform or over perform I mean I have seen bronze people take on diamons in 1vs1 and they out cs, out play the works, league is a large pool and matchmaking doesn't match based on average skill it matches based on mr which is a problem but there are no proper calculations or algarithyms to calculate for player skill and that is the reason why matchmaking is broken
What bugs me the most is that "sometimes" when the matchmaking gets it wrong is very random. Which means for me it could be "all the time" and for you "once every 20 games". This isn't fair, considering the game competitive, hell, they even call it e-sports. In sports you don't go depending on luck, or at least not this much dependence on it. You will never see a Tier 5 team in soccer for example going against a Tier 1 team just because they were "unlucky" in the random matchmaking. And yes there could be proper calculations and algorithms for calculating the skill level. As long as they can trace exactly where the kills happened in match history (on the website), minions farmed per minute, kda and so on, such algorithm is very possible. It probably costs a bit to make it, but it would improve alot the gameplay. Instead of reworking Ryze for the 4th time, do this.
S0kaX (EUNE)
: just write RIOT in the title and it increases the chance of them seeing this post ( not too much but still)
That's not how it should be, tho. Also I don't think I can edit the title now, so...
: Improving your performance gets you recognised by teams then you can premade your way up to diamond, and trust me I know this, I have this friend who has over 1500 normal wins and 300 ranked wins and he is sitting in bronze, but he managed to get almost to platinum because he found a team once before they disbanded just find a group of friends and who knows what could happen ey, as what I think riot wants us to do is copy the avengers the only way to do it is TOGETHER!!!! I am not saying you will get that lucky but it wouldn't hurt
No, this is wrong. If I wanted to play Ranked Team 5v5 I would've made a team or joined one. This is not a good idea. Not everybody is sociable enough for this to happen. Imagine this scenario: 4 Master/Challenger players teaming up with a bronze guy. He gets carried to at least Gold/Plat without him learning a thing. If he plays solo he will ruin the game for the other 4 players, who are not as good as Challenger/Masters to be able to carry him. Do you think this is fair? I'd rather have 2 separate Ranked queues, one for teaming up and one for Only solo, with separate ranking and stuff. But this is viable only if the matchmaking system gets fixed.
NichtHurz (EUW)
: Well, that's for sure. You can't carry every single game by yourself and if you aren't a Master/Challenger smurf you shouldn't expect to do so. That's the games nature, but what could you do about bad teammates? Only thing you can possibly do is trying to lead them in a better direction by calling what has to be a mad man. As I can see you were Plat last season (didn't look up how it looks now), but do you believe you couldn't easily carry yourself back to your actual rank when smurfing, just because you'll mostly have total bonobos, especially in the beginning of your climb? Just by being in your team you'll hopefully have deleted one bad player, so you'll have 4 potential idiots while the enemies will have 5 potential idiots. That's just how it works. A friend of mine dropped from Dia4 to somewhere mid Plat after not playing for some time, he easily carried himself back to his old elo. I'll sometimes rage about my teammates as well, but in the end, who does it help?
I posted a thread about what could be done considering this issue, but later I've seen that Riot employees don't even check the boards (maybe 3-5 times per year only), so it doesn't matter anyway. Yes, I was plat last season, this season I couldn't climb up to plat, been up and down in G5-G3 but ended up in G5 anyway because of this bad matchmaking system. Oh and guess what, i got permanently banned. Why? Because I couldn't stand getting shit on, flamed, trolled and stuff like this every single game and I used some bad words in a game when I lost it. 3 minutes after the game ended I was permabanned. Does Riot care about the reason that lead to a player's toxicity? Nah, better insta-ban, with no option to "take it into court". Really fair. Edit: I can't even check my stuff or play with bots on an account that I credited with 300+ euros because I sad a few bad words. No other rules broken. Why not perma chat restriction instead? Nah, that doesn't work. They earn more money now if I want to keep playing and get everything that I had back. Fortunately, in my case, they will earn less. I'm not gonna make a new account, and I would've kept buying RP if this one wasn't banned.
: Look I encounter many of those trolls and noobs and I just do my best to avoid them, I mute them all, crank my music to max and play my fucken best and weither I win or loose I don't care because its my performance I am worried about if theirs is bad woopty do, its not gonna help saying anything about it because they wont change, they come here to troll and I came here to play so if they troll they troll, so long as my performance is great they can go fuck themselves
That's one way to play the game. It seems you don't care about the rank you are in, either. I also cared about my performance 90% out of everything else, but seeing I got better and I was still stuck in the same division is very frustrating. Being the only one who actually tries to win in every team i am matched with is also frustrating as hell. It would be ok if there would be a balanced thing, but 9/10 games i lost solely cause there were either trolls/afks or very unskilled people in team, and the other teammates just gave up. To sum it up, improving your performance only to see you're going down on the ladder is just ....
CyberRage (EUW)
: Honestly they should just add an option to completely disable chat except for people in your friend list. Especially in champion select where often clueless players start flaming or extorting other players over picks and bans. It usually adds nothing but negativity to the game and chat is completely irrelevant under Diamond. Pings are more than enough ( although I'd love an option to limit 1 ping per 5 - 10 seconds from each player ).
Instead of limiting the pings amount, I'd rather have a mute button for pings from a certain player. About a week ago my friend and I have played a ranked game and lost horribly because after 30 minutes of non-stop pings from 1 single player we just couldn't play well anymore. He literally pinged every single time he could. But then again, I'm sure it was entirely my fault I lost. (P.S: he was the jungler and all he did was feed and ping)
georkokk (EUNE)
: i have been chat banned for the same reasons.. ther are times that all of my games ina a day are lost due to afkers , trollers.. in stead of rito punishing them they punished me for flaming them.. I mean even if you are the best person in the world, those kids will make you flame.. they should be allowed to play with bots only.. I have never flamed someone for playing bad ,only for trolling or afking.. riot your system is BAD
Thank you. Sadly, I've been wondering on the boards pretty much all day today and I haven't seen any Riot employee. I don't think they even read this. It sucks tho, by writing a ticket to support you can't suggest anything and they send you to the boards, where no GMs/DEVs look anyway. "Also thank you for the suggestion! We can't pass feedback reports directly to the development team, but I recommend posting to the Boards. The team is always looking at the Boards to get a feel for things players think could be improved." - response from a support ticket.
: Because as it is commonly accepted, the rating system is very accurate and reliable...
I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's a way better option (at least for me) than just going random into the waves. I'm a very technical person and I hate doing things relying on luck. I want to know for sure that if I improve myself as a player I also get "rewarded" by climbing, instead of being a matter of luck. It doesn't really matter for me anymore because I'm done with the game, but I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.
AkisAza49 (EUNE)
: These trolls-unskilled animals-afkers deserve every single curse they get. It's unfair for someone trying his best in a competitive game and some ppl just destroy everything either intentionally or not. I flame them. A lot. Hardly keep calm sometimes cause spending 40+ minutes is a waste of precious time when these kids exist to make us suffer.
Although I agree and I never flamed someone who didn't deserve it (also after I tried explaining what he did wrong, but of course I'm an idiot and i know nothing, so he does it again), I advise you to completely remove your chat from the game (if it's possible) otherwise you will end up permanently banned, while these "kids" will keep playing and troll others and get them banned as well.
NichtHurz (EUW)
: A few special tips for the Bronzies out there who really want to climb out of Bronze and feel stuck: Don't play Yasuo, play Pantheon. Don't play LeBlanc, play Annie. Don't play Kalista, play Ashe. Don't play Thresh, play Leona. (Even tho support's a tough one in Bronze, try to play supps with carry potential instead. Annie, maybe Lux) Don't play Rek'Sai, play Warwick. In general, play easy to play champs with less potential to fuck up. If you're Bronze, you belong in Bronze and it definitely isn't your teammates fault. In Bronze/Silver/Gold/Plat all that counts is to make less mistakes than the enemy, if you make less mistakes you win the game. This also counts for newbies. Sure you should play champs you're having fun with, but if you really want to improve your gameplay and possibly climb in ranked take champs where you don't have to concentrate on your mechanics, but on winning the game.
You, as a player, will start to make less mistakes, but don't worry, your teammates are there to compensate with more mistakes for you. It's not their fault, it's always yours, because you don't have 4 friends who are also good players and available to play whenever you want to play. It will always be your fault no matter how flawless you play. You have to accept and agree to be shit on, flamed and dragged down by others, and maybe, someday, with lots of luck you will actually get teammates with the same skill level as you and you will be able to win a few games. And then again, back to compensating and being your fault.
S0kaX (EUNE)
: This is a very very very.... (after 2000 very) very good idea, but I'm sure RITO won't implement the first one because RITO, but the second one might be implemented. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
Thank you, I really appreciate the support. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
: Lets for a minute assume such system is to be created. How do you expect it to judge performance of player in a given game? What metrics would you propose? And please take note, that those need to be metrics that do not encourage a game sabotaging behavior in players. Because just looking at attitude presented here we can rather safely assume that there'd be a lot of players more concerned about preserving their score rather than actually winning the game.
Try playing a game and getting a 5/0/0 score and then preserving it and let me know if you get an S. There's already an implemented system for this. It just needs a few touches and it's done.
: Oh look, this guy didn't kill anyone. He also didn't rape anyone and hasn't committed any felonies at all. Lets reward him. Basically what you are asking for... You are supposed to be nice.
You got it wrong. What he actually mean is: "Oh look, this guy didn't kill anyone. He also didn't rape anyone and hasn't committed any felonies at all. Lets NOT PUNISH him. "
: Somewhat related, my main account has started being matched with considerably worse players. (This isn't me being salty, I have a 75% wr in my division and very high mmr) Yet it's matching me with people in silver with a 30% win rate. This is in normals. Ranked is fine. But I like to practise if I'm not in the mood for ranked, and it's impossible to practise if I'm with a team of players I'd never normally be matched with. I practise my shot calling and champions I've yet to master in normals and it feels redundant at the moment seeing as though the players I'm matched with don't understand the game even close to as well as most people I play with. And that aside. It feels cheap trying my hardest against enemies who aren't as good as I am (again, not egotistical. Just the way it is). And an even bigger problem for me, the Blind pick crowd seem to have moved to draft. Constantly ridiculous bot lanes (Rammus Zilean for example) and these aren't things you encounter in ranked, so I feel like I'm wasting my time practising when it may as well be one of the joke game modes. tl;dr: Take into account mmr + rank in normals a little more, no one enjoys getting stomped, and I personally don't enjoy stomping on people of lower skill levels. Draft is for practising ranked (at least for me) not pissing about with random players of all skill levels.
I agree to this, and the solution would be to make the blind pick with the same queue type as ranked and draft, meaning you can choose your role before you join the queue. This is why the blind pick crowd moved to draft, because in Blind there's always at least 2 people that want to play the same role (Except support, ofcourse).
Rioter Comments
5oulDARK (EUW)
: League of Legends doesnt reward players for being good
Yes, Thank you. Finally someone understands. I have been permabanned because I was toxic. Now tell me, what human being can endure being shit on for weeks and flamed by teammates (while playing good or at least decent)? I mean for how long? Fine, I lose 3 games in a row, 5 games, 10 games, i'm ok with it. But when the matchmaking matches me with every flamer and troll, every single game, it becomes very very frustrating and at one point I can't take it anymore and I burst. Also, I invested around 300 euros in that account. I'm toxic in chat? Fine, perma ban my chat, but don't restrict my access to play the game on an account that I spent more than pretty much any Buy-To-Play game out there. I have tried every "solution" posted online for this elo hell thing. I muted everyone, I tried not to care about winning/losing and just to improve my own skills. It doesn't work, not for a person who doesn't like being shit on. But then again, what do I know? I'm just a gold/plat player, Riot doesn't give a **** about lower than Diamond 1 players. Also, what has this world come to when people can't take a few bad words? It's not like the "kids" don't already know them. It's the 21st century people, wake up! P.S: I'm expecting those "high elo" players to come and tell me I'm not good enough to carry and win the game. Out of 100 matches I was carried once. Why do I have to be the one that always carries, always roams, always goes for objectives, while my teammates just herp derp around? Why am I not carried like my usual teammates are? This matchmaking is so random, and I admit I have the worst luck when it comes to random things. So yes, a solution for this would be to "reward" for individual performance. Not by giving LP or loss prevented, but by MATCHING THE GOOD PLAYER WITH OTHER GOOD PLAYERS WITH GOOD INDIVIDUAL PERFORMANCE. That way we can actually feel like it's fair. You play bad? You get matched with other players that play as bad as you. You play well? Matched with other players like you. This way, you may lose a few matches due to trolls/afk etc, but eventually you will be matched with good players if you perform good during those loses. For now, it's just random, the system doesn't know if the player was boosted, if he trolled last 20 games or so, neither does it care. It just matches you with them. TL;DR Version: 1. For those who are toxic in chat and don't break other rules, perma ban their chat (after the other steps of disciplinary actions) instead of restricting the whole access to their account. 2. Make the system do an individual check (like the performance rankings, S, A, B, C, D, already implemented) and make the matchmaking match you with players who perform similar to you, aka the same skill level, instead of it being random. (In ranked, of course)

C9 Shiny

Level 30 (EUNE)
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