Smerk (EUW)
: There aren't that many whiners in this thread, just one edit: are->aren't
> [{quoted}](name=Smerk,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=BAOgO0ak,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-18T13:03:04.886+0000) > > There are that many whiners in this thread, just one I guess its you.
: I dont like the shorter game time because it takes away those long games where its so close all the time -> Try to make games 35-40mins in average, so you have roughly a little less than 1hr of que, loading screen and champselect + game. To keep climbing effort the same increase the LP and XP gain to match the longer game time. Also start giving LP rewards/free win/ whatever for remakes. Theyre so annoying and time consuming, imo 4v5 are more fun than waiting 20mins for nothing. Why should only games where player leave instantly be prevented, while your mates can still int/tilt/afk with nothing being done about that? I dont like the randomness drakes offer. If you win early but dont scale well your win/lose might be very dependant on what is spawning. Ive lost so many close games because the enemy got 3 infernals in a row early on due to bot lane getting stomped which is making comebacks harder. Id prefer seeing the drake reverted to the old ones and making them harder to solo at level 4/5/6 or give them a standard rotation with stacking effects. Same goes for the Rift Herald. I dont see its point and imo its just frustrating to play against it, especially since tower are already useless, im really happy Riot is adressing that, but srsly, it was just a bad change and its kinda sad the best thing they do is reverting mistakes they made. Do less champs with overloaded kits. 90% of the new champs can jump like crazy, go invis, have no mana or even all of that together. Yes im kinda biased due to being an orianna main, but its not only her, but a lot of adcs and old champs that feel clunky due to that, especially considering the pace of old skillshots. It seems that the game is getting more "flashy" and "fast paced", but thats a personal preference. MOST important: Bring Dominion back. -.- It was fun, fast paced, and a 10min gap closer with a fixed max game time, why remove it without replacement? Havent seen special gamemodes in a while, i think we need at least one of them at every time. What i love atm: New BE system, free Chests/ Skins/ missions. Matchmaking system, pings, emotes, clash, flex/soloduo split, skins, most of items.
> [{quoted}](name=funnyplayer27,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=BAOgO0ak,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-11-18T04:00:23.967+0000) > > I dont like the shorter game time because it takes away those long games where its so close all the time -> Try to make games 35-40mins in average, so you have roughly a little less than 1hr of que, loading screen and champselect + game. To keep climbing effort the same increase the LP and XP gain to match the longer game time. Also start giving LP rewards/free win/ whatever for remakes. Theyre so annoying and time consuming, imo 4v5 are more fun than waiting 20mins for nothing. Why should only games where player leave instantly be prevented, while your mates can still int/tilt/afk with nothing being done about that? > I strongly agree to you about game times and "fast pacing" what i addressed = everyone deals too much damage with very low window of opportunity - pretty much BURST is the only damage type as of now, even ad carries are fluctuating from DPS to pure burst, duskblade storm razor, etc. The biggest culprits behind this all is simply - there are no good pure defense items worth to build, + keystones bring too much damage, too much impact, scaling AD/AP, BURST, not just a little burst = but like a second SKILL for most assassins and other abusable, downright stupid keystones. While about dominion - everyone knows there was no point to remove it, leave it be, it does matter if it is played or not - Again unnecessary decisions which lead to the bleeding of their player base for no reasons at all. About drakes - good point, but herald is even worse you can easily finish game at 15-20mins mark, if you stomped a laning phase enough. I didnt play much this season, but i had no "close" or "intense" games - pretty much it was stomp or get stomped, or a kill fest, where people were running around and bursting each other and whoever messed the most at late game - lost. Its now not about "how well you play your teamfights" its about how well you "pick your fights", farm your items. Late game its really just pure positioning and where you start the fight.
Febos (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=CalmN,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=BAOgO0ak,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-11-18T00:19:10.407+0000) > > Hello, pretty much everyone universally agree that season 9 was the worst season ever Are you a time traveller? Season 9 hasn't happened yet. *** > [{quoted}](name=CalmN,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=BAOgO0ak,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-11-18T00:19:10.407+0000) > > So i thought ill give some insights about the game and where i think the game should head I'm wiling to bet your "insight" is uncessary or flat out wrong. Let's see. *** > [{quoted}](name=CalmN,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=BAOgO0ak,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-11-18T00:19:10.407+0000) > > 1\. Runes removal and keystones were a big mistake, they simply impact the game too much, whoever can use keystones the best instantly becomes top tier > They impact the game too much As I suspected. Fun fact: the old runes are pretty much still there. You still get Flat AD/AP (adaptative), attack speed or health. Every (or almost every) champion received buffs to their armour, meaning every champion plays as if they had 9 armour seals. Runes and Mastery simply merged into 1 streamlined thing; nothing else. Also, season 9 will bring even more changes on that, as you'll be able to chose **exactly** what extra stats you want. *** > [{quoted}](name=CalmN,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=BAOgO0ak,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-11-18T00:19:10.407+0000) > > 2\. Itemization for ad carries sucks Stating a problem while not providing a possible solution is useless. Even if the solution is bad, at least it serves as food for thought. *** > [{quoted}](name=CalmN,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=BAOgO0ak,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-11-18T00:19:10.407+0000) > > 3\. There are no good, pure defense items, who are meaningful and impactful enough to build. Sure. {{item:3075}} {{item:3143}} {{item:3194}} {{item:3193}} Those are some of the situational items. Can't get much more impactful than that. *** > [{quoted}](name=CalmN,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=BAOgO0ak,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-11-18T00:19:10.407+0000) > > 4\. There are no interesting games anymore, mostly you either stomp or get stomped "Interesting" is subjective and thus it belongs to the realm of "your opinion". Now, I'm not saying games are mostly stomps nowadays, neither am I saying they aren't. I'm just saying calling it "interesting" is subjective. Is it a problem? I don't know. For me it isn't. See? That's why "opinion" is useless. *** > [{quoted}](name=CalmN,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=BAOgO0ak,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-11-18T00:19:10.407+0000) > > 6\. Reworks hurt the game and mostly they are bad. I know this will be controversial It's not controversial. It's flat out **wrong**. {{champion:78}} {{champion:83}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:266}} {{champion:28}} {{champion:41}} etc All of those were good changes. ######Some people will still argue old Aatrox isn't the same and that's precisely the point of his rework. Old Aatrox had to go. Some of his mechanics (W) may return in the future. *** > [{quoted}](name=CalmN,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=BAOgO0ak,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-11-18T00:19:10.407+0000) > > It discourages people to invest time in this game No. It discourages OTPs that can't learn how to adapt. By "adapt" I don't mean "fall in love with the rework". Maybe you don't like the rework, so you just move on to the next thing. When they rework Shaco, and if I don't like it, I'll just not play him. That or I can invest my time to learn "new Shaco". *** > [{quoted}](name=CalmN,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=BAOgO0ak,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-11-18T00:19:10.407+0000) > > 8\. Too many changes, too impactful, too fast. Funny you mention that. I see a lot of high mmr players complaining about changes taking too long to happen and not being impactful on what matters. Who's right, you or them? *** *** I will just stop there because it's getting boring. So far, 8 out of your 16 points are just bad. I'm willing to bet the pattern repeats, so I'm not going to bother. Godspeed {{sticker:vlad-salute}}
> [{quoted}](name=Febos,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=BAOgO0ak,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-11-18T02:23:50.490+0000) > > > Godspeed > {{sticker:vlad-salute}} Apart from abyssal helm, none of those items are worth your gold. Though abyssal helm is very situational and will not help vs burst. Where the problem lies. If you cant see how stupid the keystones are - you are a moron. They provide huge burst, or other unfair advantages - example anyone who can abuse conquer - jax/ trynda get instant buff only from keystones alone, its like these are designed for them. Riot approach was to try and "balance" some champions with "keystones" but thats a big failure and only brings more unnecessary changes, stop attacking me like i care about this game - i dont, i just wrote some tips which should be considered if riot dont want to bleed even more players. I never wrote that these reworks were BAD, I wrote that they were BAD from the point of leaving a champion true to its former self, all your named reworks are not reworks - they are different champions, but i see you lack comprehensive skills and your whole response is literally useless with 0 insights, well at least you found ONE pure defensive item worth your time. There are no other build path for ad carries. goddamn did you even read what i wrote? Again you lack comprehensive skills or did not read past first 2 sentences on each point - Riot bleeds people, riot WILL bleed more ONE TRICKS, its not about adaptive or whats wrong whats right - my point was their approach kills off their player base, what you cant understand about that? or will you somehow ignore the logic that - NO a player who invested 3000 hours to a champion will not just start playing different champion, he WILL stop playing altogether, or never to a hardcore point he was. Everyone has a different taste. Some dont find other champions interesting or other aspect of the game, some dont like laning, only jungle - etc. This approach backfires on RIOT its my whole point, im not here to cry about shitty reworks or champions who get deleted - im here to state the obvious = their decisions throughout this season led to so many players leaving. And it will be even worse if they will FAIL to grasp these concepts again. I was high mmr player myself = whats your %%%%ing point? Literally there are lots of videos of doublelift or other players COMPLAINING that there are too much changes, so much that they cant even stream, because they have to train 24/7 and cant play for fun. Riot changes are mostly half-thought and most importantly made a game complete chaos a couple of times now, storm razor + duskblade assassin deletion, they were so stupid to not see that coming? completely overnerfing ad carries, then their items - ap mages, bruisers bot lane = This season was a long preseason, but i guess there is no point to argue with you, you are too dense to even see further than your ass.
Smerk (EUW)
: > pretty much everyone universally agree that season 9 was the worst season ever Season didn't even begin and you already claim it as a worst one. Funny. You're getting downvotes mostly because of that one phrase. I don't agree with it, so there is no much point in reading further. You really should not use "everyone" when in fact it's just you
> [{quoted}](name=Smerk,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=BAOgO0ak,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-11-18T00:40:16.078+0000) > > Season didn't even begin and you already claim it as a worst one. Funny. > > You're getting downvotes mostly because of that one phrase. I don't agree with it, so there is no much point in reading further. You really should not use "everyone" when in fact it's just you goddamn so many whiny people, you got my point - my mistake, i edited it. I lost interest in competitive aspect of this game long ago.
Rioter Comments
CalmN (EUNE)
: High ping, while internet is perfectly fine.
CalmN (EUNE)
: High ping, while internet is perfectly fine.
Rioter Comments
RallerenP (EUW)
: > its really hard to gather such info and make proper statistics, thus these claims do look extraordinary. It's extremely easy to get these statistics. Look at how many players recieve a punishment, then look at how many of those players who never recieve a new one. I didn't say permabanned players have a high reformation rate. They have an insanely small reformation rate, which is why Riot doesn't want to spend the resources trying to manage them, and instead just permaban them.
> [{quoted}](name=RallerenP,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=E41Vbo8X,comment-id=0004000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-21T12:55:03.865+0000) > > It's extremely easy to get these statistics. Look at how many players recieve a punishment, then look at how many of those players who never recieve a new one. > > I didn't say permabanned players have a high reformation rate. They have an insanely small reformation rate, which is why Riot doesn't want to spend the resources trying to manage them, and instead just permaban them. But thats not reputable or in any way convincing way to gather such statistic. Its like those shitty statistics which claim that cola causes depression, because 1000 people who drank cola had 30% increased depression rates, the 1000 who didnt had 0% increase, thus cola = depression, thats false information, because there are too many variables which can make all the difference but are simply ignored. So your simple way to gather these statistics just look good on paper but have pretty much 0 ground to back them in anything, because many variables are ignored. Example when i was climbing to diamond i was a lot more toxic, because i was a lot more competitive. After i lost interest in the game and competitiveness aspect of it, I became the "perfect" angel - cause i dont care anymore if i lose or win.
RallerenP (EUW)
: > Since when league became social correctness and warriors heaven? Since that's what made Riot the most money. > Cmon there is a mute button, this is a game, I can't remember who made the metaphor but it's a great one: "Just because there is a fire hydrant outside my home, doesn't mean you are free to set my house on fire." Muting is a band-aid after the damage has been done. Reporting is to make sure the damage doesn't happen again. > as long as its not bullying, What you're friend did was definently a form of bullying. >I mean what the %%%% is this political correctness? This has nothing to do with political correctness. Your friend was just being an ass towards his teammates. > But idiot or, jungler is unskilled, when hes unskilled - that someone is noob is perma ban worthy???. nonono, it's not permaban worthy. But when you combine it will all his *previous* offences it **is**-
> [{quoted}](name=RallerenP,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=E41Vbo8X,comment-id=00040001000000010000,timestamp=2018-04-21T12:50:48.338+0000) > Well this is out of the question, i found out with the help of others why it was perma ban for such a small ""CRIME"" because he did not play and with low activity your "heat" isn't going down. About business model, i doubt that.. i mean reworked eve does not fit in "political correctness" levels, heck she does not even fit in T13 rating. So i doubt its in their minds or business model to be politically correct, after tribunal was taken down they started to react to toxic players way too harshly and i doubt that banning everyone is a good business model.
JenShen (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Hide on küsh,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=E41Vbo8X,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-04-21T12:12:29.833+0000) > Do what's called "soft inting" die completely intentionally, but don't do it too much and too often - as long as you're not making it obvious (0/20/0 Zeal+Mobis with 0 damage dealt to champions) you will not be banned. Spam dance and emotes in front of the enemy team while they're trying to siege. Refuse to participate in teamfights and then question mark pings (or /all ?) your team when they lose the teamfight. Flash into the enemy team, die and then say "mb having bad game hehe" in all chat. > > Obviously you're being a complete douche by doing any of these, but they likely will never end up in a punishment. So why chatting? Why are you venting your anger using the only method you actually have a chance of being punished for? > > That's like if someone tells you "you can get away with murder, arson, battery and public nudity, but NOT car theft" and then you go ahead and steal a %%%%ing car. I cant agree with you more, insted of puting ducktape on a guy's mouth that cannot stop talking, let's make the reason why this guy cannot stop talking bigger. And about the bigger crimes, it is probably stupid, but chosing the lesser crime even that you wont get punish for the bigger one, actually says you are kind of good person. I have have to chose to kill without getting any punishment, or stealing a car and getting punished, i would chose to not do either of them but if i must chose i will go with the car. Maybe this makes me real idiot, but i rather go with the lesser crime.
> [{quoted}](name=JenShen,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=E41Vbo8X,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2018-04-21T12:46:17.152+0000) > > I cant agree with you more, insted of puting ducktape on a guy's mouth that cannot stop talking, let's make the reason why this guy cannot stop talking bigger. > > And about the bigger crimes, it is probably stupid, but chosing the lesser crime even that you wont get punish for the bigger one, actually says you are kind of good person. > I have have to chose to kill without getting any punishment, or stealing a car and getting punished, i would chose to not do either of them but if i must chose i will go with the car. Maybe this makes me real idiot, but i rather go with the lesser crime. Cant agree with you more.
RallerenP (EUW)
: > Show me the result of those "25% increase in reform rates" .. >Cuz all stats about this topic created by this company are mostlikely also false.. Then literally anything I throw at you will be dismissed? You are the one who made the claim that permabans aren't the solution, where is the proof of **that**?
> [{quoted}](name=RallerenP,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=E41Vbo8X,comment-id=00040001000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-21T12:45:34.167+0000) > > Then literally anything I throw at you will be dismissed? > > You are the one who made the claim that permabans aren't the solution, where is the proof of **that**? Isnt this obvious? Perma ban will always work, If riot would ban every single player and there would be 0 players playing, then the improvement would be the best? Thats not a solution, plus pretty bad for business model. Well your "statistics" really do look like out of your arse, how they got them? A player who got perma ban created a new account? How they knew its exact SAME player, its really hard to gather such info and make proper statistics, thus these claims do look extraordinary.
: > so maybe some people would reconsider spending money on skins and in game content if all it takes just that to get a perma ban. :) I don't understand how people still use this argument. You have to be a real idiot to get permabanned on League to begin with. Literally all you have to do to avoid punishment in League is **stop using the chat** >B-but I'm only human, I get angery! There are SO MANY ways to vent your frustration in-game without being punished. Do what's called "soft inting" die completely intentionally, but don't do it too much and too often - as long as you're not making it obvious (0/20/0 Zeal+Mobis with 0 damage dealt to champions) you will not be banned. Spam dance and emotes in front of the enemy team while they're trying to siege. Refuse to participate in teamfights and then question mark pings (or /all ?) your team when they lose the teamfight. Flash into the enemy team, die and then say "mb having bad game hehe" in all chat. Obviously you're being a complete douche by doing any of these, but they likely will never end up in a punishment. So why chatting? Why are you venting your anger using the only method you actually have a chance of being punished for? That's like if someone tells you "you can get away with murder, arson, battery and public nudity, but NOT car theft" and then you go ahead and steal a %%%%ing car.
> [{quoted}](name=Hide on küsh,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=E41Vbo8X,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-04-21T12:12:29.833+0000) > There are SO MANY ways to vent your frustration in-game without being punished. > > Do what's called "soft inting" die completely intentionally, but don't do it too much and too often - as long as you're not making it obvious (0/20/0 Zeal+Mobis with 0 damage dealt to champions) you will not be banned. Spam dance and emotes in front of the enemy team while they're trying to siege. Refuse to participate in teamfights and then question mark pings (or /all ?) your team when they lose the teamfight. Flash into the enemy team, die and then say "mb having bad game hehe" in all chat. > > Obviously you're being a complete douche by doing any of these, but they likely will never end up in a punishment. So why chatting? Why are you venting your anger using the only method you actually have a chance of being punished for? > > That's like if someone tells you "you can get away with murder, arson, battery and public nudity, but NOT car theft" and then you go ahead and steal a %%%%ing car. What you mentioned is far worse than a couple of idiots here and there, these people should be perma banned, not the people who are trying to win and plays the game and that leads them to heated arguments, remember you only see his chat, you dont see if and how his teammates harassed him, lets say they did harass him, doing what you advise - its a lot more wrong than all of his chat combined.
RallerenP (EUW)
: > you're just a typical butthurt EU player.. >Do this on NA and you'd get laughed at, simply because they own the language and don't care about it. Which is why my NA boards has 2.9k upvotes? While my EU only has 703? > I see it on a daily basis on HIGH ELO streams.. They ignore it and move on, they don't even bother reporting the players sayins such things. Because in high elo streams they mostly all know eachother and they don't care about trash talking between friends. And in high elo streams you might see a couple of lines here and there about useless teammates, but nothing like this guy did. He spammed it, and was EXTREMELY annoying, and it'd definently be reported, even in high ELO. > so pls stop whining and make yourself look good, cuz you're just a naive fool :( :) Ok ok, he was toxic and acted like a baboon but you're making him look like a mass murderer here. No, OP thought it was an unfair punishment, I think it wasn't. I don't want his friend jailed, I just don't want him to play League. > He deserves a ban from the chat, a permanent ban is never a solution. Sure it is. It's a great solution actually. After they revised the punishment system from being infinitely scaling chat-restrictions to 14-day and permabans they saw a 25% increase in reform rates (from 50% to 75%). It's works EXTREMELY well. The only ones it *doesn't* work well for are the toxic players, and I honestly don't care about their wishes.
> [{quoted}](name=RallerenP,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=E41Vbo8X,comment-id=000400010000,timestamp=2018-04-21T12:27:04.605+0000) > Sure it is. It's a great solution actually. After they revised the punishment system from being infinitely scaling chat-restrictions to 14-day and permabans they saw a 25% increase in reform rates (from 50% to 75%). It's works EXTREMELY well. The only ones it *doesn't* work well for are the toxic players, and I honestly don't care about their wishes. So couple of idiots and blame will make you cry? i never said he wasnt at fault i said it was too mild for perma ban. Thats it, but it looks like his account was on "heat" because of low activity - thus he got banned for such a petty chat. Since when league became social correctness and warriors heaven? Cmon there is a mute button, this is a game, as long as its not bullying, being too harsh, wishing someone harm, insulting too much i dont see a problem. I mean what the %%%% is this political correctness? If someone acts like idiot or does stupid shit like diving a tower at level 1, i will call him an idiot, why not? it will hurt his feelings? I will not rage on him and slap him with all the worst words+ wishing him bad luck, etc. But idiot or, jungler is unskilled, when hes unskilled - that someone is noob is perma ban worthy???. :) But i guess this game mutated way too much.
Smerk (EUW)
: > as i said we did not touch league for a very long time --- > heating down isnt working as intended or there are some details people miss, maybe there was not enough activity, lots of maybe. You're correct on this, people miss one important detail about bringing your account back to positive standing. You can't just leave your account hanging for a long time and get back to clear account few years after. You have to actively play games and show that your behaviour is better
> [{quoted}](name=Smerk,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=E41Vbo8X,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2018-04-21T12:13:45.512+0000) > > --- > > You're correct on this, people miss one important detail about bringing your account back to positive standing. You can't just leave your account hanging for a long time and get back to clear account few years after. You have to actively play games and show that your behaviour is better Yep i figured that out with forum members help, i edited my original post, because its intention was just to raise awareness and be as advice.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Shiwah,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=E41Vbo8X,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-21T12:08:08.108+0000) > > An advice based on false information. You're supposed to play the game to downgrade your punishment level. This is *specifically* to avoid cases like your "friend" trying to dodge punishments by not playing for long periods of time. > > Fun fact: popular players and streamers *never* get their accounts back if they were banned rightfully. And if you're trying to pull the Tyler1 card, his accounts are still banned, he's simply allowed to play the game on his current ones - he was previously not allowed to. Include Iwilldominate and Incarnati0n p.s check my post now, where is the false information? i told you i will edit it, so the %%%% man?
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Shiwah,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=E41Vbo8X,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-04-21T12:01:02.812+0000) > > Since the "heat down" (as you call it) doesn't work by simply stopping playing for long periods of time, that's why your friend got permabanned. Torpedosheep is correct. I see that now, i wasnt that much off, i should edit my post a bit, its still just an advice for others.
RallerenP (EUW)
: So here we go, another post filled to the brim with misinformation and misunderstanding, trying to spread a 'PSA' about a system they have no knowledge aout. > if all it takes just that to get a perma ban. :) All it takes huh? > 3xwW: now he comes 3xwW: to feed mid too 3xwW: low skill junglar no wonder why we gonna lose Blaming > 3xwW: notice master yi is selfish animal 3xwW: who wouldnt def mid cuz of chat 3xwW: stop ruin top lane 3xwW: u sutpid master yi 3xwW: ill help you out soon 3xwW: lol 3xwW: he could Q like 3xwW: 10 seconds ago 3xwW: instead he tryes 3xwW: basic xD Blaming AND just being a %%%% towards a teammate > 3xwW: stupid mas ter yi 3xwW: 0 logic 3xwW: Troller master yi Yet more blaming > 3xwW: we lost cuz of ur premade 3xwW: who feeded top Do I need to say it? > 3xwW: u are %%%ing usless teemo? Why does he have such a hard time being friendly? > 3xwW: delete this game 3xwW: stupid usless sh1t 3xwW: yes you are stupid usless sh1t 3xwW: l2p 3xwW: never ganked ur lane 3xwW: and made ur lane usless 3xwW: l2p ... > 3xwW: no wonder why u are silver 3xwW: silver logic You can't really say that when you yourself is *barely** silver (Silver 4) > 3xwW: %%% What I can only interpret as him telling others to killthemselves. This is a COMPLETELY unacceptable. > 3xwW: whatever 3xwW: talk more 3xwW: akali 3xwW: usless 3xwW: ) 3xwW: rep 3xwW: rep 3xwW: rep 3xwW: repper 3xwW: ALL REPORT REPORT YESS 3xwW: ALL REPOOORTTT Why?? --- So now that all the unacceptable chat is out of the way (and there was ALOT of it, even some of the things I didn't quote would still get picked up, as he was being overall harrasing and abusive all the games), it would *still* not be enough to warrant a permaban. I quoted a '%%%' but I'm not entirely sure what was there. If it was an encouragement to self harm AND he had just gotten off another punishment, then yes, this is enough to get a permaban and it's 100% justified. But if not, then he must have just gotten off a 14-day ban. After the 14 day ban the next punishment is a permaban, as noted by the reform card that pops when you recieve it. > The games were 40-50 minutes long each, have that in mind there is a lot of text. For the first two games that was a lot of text for even a 40-50 minute game, but that is irrelevant really. The volume of messages doesn't really matter, it's more about the contents OF said messages. > If thinking sincerely, 95% of community should be perma banned if that is all it takes for the perma ban. :) Then you think wrong. Infact it's a tiny minority that even gets close to getting a permaban. MOST people don't even recieve a chat-restriction. Only toxic people think that this chat is normal. > 1. There is no "heat cooldown" period, if you were toxic a couple of years ago and got a few "chat bans" temp bans like for 10-20 days, etc. Your account is blacklisted forever, If you improve your behaviour you will eventually get a clean account. Riot doesn't hold you to the things you said 6 years ago. There isn't a set time period, it's more about the behaviour you show, and how many valid reports are made against you. This has some exceptions: If you instantly stop playing, or start playing alot less, the account may never get a clean status. It's not about how much time has passed, it's about how many games and the behaviour you show in them. Also it unlikely but possible that you show negative behaviour after a temp ban, and you keep doing that but never to the degree that you recieve a punishment. Your account status would stay 'dirty'. > Im not defending toxic behaviour or flaming, but this seems senseless to me. The most this should lead is chat ban or temp ban, do remember that we did not play league, no activity, no reports for nearly a year, once you get heat in your account, its there forever, there is no reset button, like with ranked games, because after limited amount of times, even mild toxicity on the account will get you perma banned. And this is what lead me to the exception above. You didn't play at all, and as such your account status never improved. It's simple.
> [{quoted}](name=RallerenP,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=E41Vbo8X,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-04-21T11:44:50.395+0000) > > Also it unlikely but possible that you show negative behaviour after a temp ban, and you keep doing that but never to the degree that you recieve a punishment. Your account status would stay 'dirty'. > > > And this is what lead me to the exception above. You didn't play at all, and as such your account status never improved. It's simple. So where is the misinformation here? That i told you are not getting your heat down as you think, aka every year, season so forth. If you are not very active your heat pretty much isnt going down, even though you think lots of time passed? Even if after the 14 days ban you drop the game for 1 year, the next punishment will be perma ban?? I dont think thats sensible, you wasted lots of time quoting his logs, i never told you he wasnt toxic, i told you it was pretty mild in my own eyes, because we all know how much worse cases we see daily in this game, wishing cancer, insulting family, wishing harm, etc. This was annoying blaming i do agree, but even in support ticket they acknowledged that its mild, but still within their "policy" and perma bans are meant as that, there is no way to get it lifted, unless "you are a popular streamer/pro player". (my own 5 cents).
DutchPro (EUW)
: Just because another provokes you, you suddenly have a right to flame???????????? Jesus, you are the 2nd account of this guy stop pretending. Nothing justifies flaming, not even flame.
> [{quoted}](name=DutchPro1,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=E41Vbo8X,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2018-04-21T11:50:48.126+0000) > > Just because another provokes you, you suddenly have a right to flame???????????? > > Jesus, you are the 2nd account of this guy stop pretending. Nothing justifies flaming, not even flame. Wooow slow down big guy, dont assume things without even researching at least a bit. (google, op.gg) you will see that its not possible to be a 2nd acc. :) It does not give you the right, but most people do it anyway. Like if i hit you in the face or called you words you would simply walk away? most likely not, its very rare but most people when angry let their emotions take over you, i dont say its good to do that. Heck im not even arguing with anyone, i just wanted to warn people who feel safe within league policies. Yes he was toxic, mild or not depends by individuals (for me mild, saw million worse cases, cancer wishing, etc). But it you see the logs, you see the punishments, everything else is just for "example" for what you can get perma ban, even if you did not get any reports for a very long time (did not play). Thats it.
DutchPro (EUW)
: I have taken the effort to analyze the chat logs and I am pretty aware of what is okay and not okay in League. So these chat logs are from 3 games. I will go over them one by one and tell you what is actually being said.' Do realise he is not banned for 1 sentence, he is banned for the overall content he is providing in chat, in total. 3xwW: well if u were 3xwW: smart jungle Indirectly calling your teammate dumb. Could argue that it's too indirect to take it too serious, eventhough we know he was serious. 3xwW: low skill junglar no wonder why we gonna lose Flaming jungler about skill, this time directly. 3xwW: notice master yi is selfish animal Selfish animal? Calling someone selfish is okay, calling them an animal is not okay. 3xwW: u sutpid master yi Directly calling your teammate dumb. Not okay 3xwW: stupid mas ter yi Again. 3xwW: Troller master yi On it's own not really a big deal, but it does support the picture of him bashing teammates. 3xwW: morgana u supose to protect 3xwW: ur adc not to go in 3xwW: like idiot Eventhough it is often pointless to tell someone how to play their champion it is allowed. Comparing them to an idiot, not okay. 3xwW: this is how bosted u are Claiming someone is boosted, not directly punishable, but does again support the picture of bashing teammates. 3xwW: STFU Speaks for itself. 3xwW: so shut up Again. 3xwW: tard League has a pretty strict policy against flaming with disabilities. Just never go here, it's pretty low. 3xwW: u are %%%ing usless teemo 3xwW: why the %%% you came to me Notice how he is flaming the player, not the actions. Flaming actions is bad, but flaming players directly is worse. 3xwW: stupid usless sh1t Speaks for itself, not okay. 3xwW: yes you are stupid usless sh1t Again. 3xwW: cuz u are dumb? As a question it is harder to conclude flame, but he is still implying he is dumb which is not okay. 3xwW: no wonder why u are silver Flaming ranks not the worst thing to do, but again supports the picture. 3xwW: usless crap 😉 Speaks for itself. 3xwW: omg u are 3xwW: bunch of girls 3xwW: in my team Too vague to simply see as flame, but the way he says is in the context of the rest of the flame he means it negatively and thus supports the bashing teammates picture. 3xwW: blind as %%% Surprisingly enough this isn't the worst since it is indirect. But again, fits the picture. 3xwW: akali 3xwW: usless Straight up flame, again, not okay. 3xwW: talk to me jarvan 3xwW: u %%%er 'u fker' I am guessing, personal attack not okay. 3xwW: stfu 3xwW: im bored of u jarvan Not directly flame but telling j4 to 'stfu' still bad. 3xwW: stop cry 3xwW: baby boy 3xwW: keep crying Not super toxic but the degrading of your teammates becomes very obvious from this. 3xwW: idiots Rounds it off perfectly. My judgement, I would definitly think he would deserve a 14 day ban from this if this was his first time. Trying so hard to make his team feel bad is always wrong, I don't care if they were inting or not it is just never justified. If this is a perma ban than he has been banned before, and the fact that he has not reformed since that ban is enough reason to give a harder punishment. If permanent is the right option, I don't know, but he definitly deserves to be removed from this game for a while since he is one of the many people who make this community so toxic.
> [{quoted}](name=DutchPro1,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=E41Vbo8X,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-04-21T11:49:06.557+0000) > > My judgement, I would definitly think he would deserve a 14 day ban from this if this was his first time. > Trying so hard to make his team feel bad is always wrong, I don't care if they were inting or not it is just never justified. > > If this is a perma ban than he has been banned before, and the fact that he has not reformed since that ban is enough reason to give a harder punishment. > > If permanent is the right option, I don't know, but he definitly deserves to be removed from this game for a while since he is one of the many people who make this community so toxic. I am with you, its definitely a bad behaviour, but perma ban for this is simply senseless, as i said we did not touch league for a very long time, mostly we play it at lan parties, because i did not care enough to look for other mobas after league. The thing is - i completely agree he could get a chat ban, temp ban, but for this alone perma ban is stupid, heating down isnt working as intended or there are some details people miss, maybe there was not enough activity, lots of maybe. Plus in terms of online games, especially league its in my eyes "mild" not insulting moms, using harsh words, wishing cancer and so on.
: >I have some advice for others in the future 1. There is no "heat cooldown" period, if you were toxic a couple of years ago and got a few "chat bans" temp bans like for 10-20 days, etc. Your account is blacklisted forever, get this enough times in your lets say 5-6 years of gameplay - the next chain of reports might get you perma banned. Where's that "fact" coming from? Sorry but that's completely false, it is possible to bring your account back to a normal standing after a punishment. That's no secret. --- If your friend got permabanned for mild toxicity, it's because they were toxic for a long period. A few games of getting mad doesn't just get you permabanned, you need consistent negative behavior for that. That means you friend ignored a 10-game chat restriction, a 25-game chat restriction and a 14-day ban. I think those warnings are enough to stop being toxic.
> [{quoted}](name=Torpedosheep,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=E41Vbo8X,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-04-21T11:25:42.897+0000) > > 1. There is no "heat cooldown" period, if you were toxic a couple of years ago and got a few "chat bans" temp bans like for 10-20 days, etc. Your account is blacklisted forever, get this enough times in your lets say 5-6 years of gameplay - the next chain of reports might get you perma banned. > > Where's that "fact" coming from? > > Sorry but that's completely false, it is possible to bring your account back to a normal standing after a punishment. That's no secret. > > --- > If your friend got permabanned for mild toxicity, it's because they were toxic for a long period. A few games of getting mad doesn't just get you permabanned, you need consistent negative behavior for that. > > That means you friend ignored a 10-game chat restriction, a 25-game chat restriction and a 14-day ban. I think those warnings are enough to stop being toxic. Now either my friend is lying to me, you are wrong or both. He did indeed go trough all these stages, but it happened long time ago like in 1-2 years period, the last punishment for him was at least 1 year ago and he got a perma ban out of a blue now. so either it takes a fixed amount of games without reports for "heat down" or "heat down" system isnt functioning as you said. As i said we did not play league much, so its possible that he didnt play enough matches for your said "heating down" to happen, thus i assumed there is nothing like that at all.
Èclair (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=CalmN,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=E41Vbo8X,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-04-21T11:21:11.903+0000) > > But its so **mild** that i wanted to share this with everyone _____ >**3xwW**: u are %%%ing usless teemo **3xwW**: why the %%% you came to me **3xwW**: u bring to me **3xwW**: and we both died **3xwW**: delete this game **3xwW**: stupid usless sh1t **3xwW**: yes you are stupid usless sh1t Like, this is only a small part of the second game chat logs. Throughout the three games you posted he constantly harasses at least one person in his team. It's not mild, it's well deserved.
> [{quoted}](name=MadEclair,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=E41Vbo8X,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-04-21T11:38:02.476+0000) > > _____ > **3xwW**: why the %%% you came to me > **3xwW**: u bring to me > **3xwW**: and we both died > **3xwW**: delete this game > **3xwW**: stupid usless sh1t > **3xwW**: yes you are stupid usless sh1t > > Like, this is only a small part of the second game chat logs. Throughout the three games you posted he constantly harasses at least one person in his team. It's not mild, it's well deserved. Well it happens when you dont mute people and you are in argument blaming each other, provoking each other.
CalmN (EUNE)
: A little bit of reality check for everyone playing league.
Game 1 3xwW: no i had to wait 3xwW: till 3xwW: i find out who is in mid 3xwW: 🙂 3xwW: evedn if i lose 3 mobs 3xwW: i dont care 3xwW: depends on my buy 3xwW: well if u were 3xwW: smart jungle 3xwW: u would notice 3xwW: that kayne is 3xwW: all time at my turret 3xwW: u can get kill but u go farm enemy 3xwW: for 3xwW: 4 minutes 3xwW: ? 3xwW: :)))))))) 3xwW: muted 3xwW: negative junglar 3xwW: now he comes 3xwW: to feed mid too 3xwW: oh yeah push my lane 3xwW: take that creeps yeah 3xwW: low skill junglar no wonder why we gonna lose 3xwW: lanes needs help hes farming my creeps 3xwW: gj 3xwW: both 3xwW: and one great gank 3xwW: its ok 3xwW: notice master yi is selfish animal 3xwW: who wouldnt def mid cuz of chat 3xwW: stop ruin top lane 3xwW: u sutpid master yi 3xwW: ill help you out soon 3xwW: lol 3xwW: he could Q like 3xwW: 10 seconds ago 3xwW: instead he tryes 3xwW: basic xD 3xwW: just helping my team 3xwW: :X 3xwW: Greeedy 3xwW: feels like 4x5 3xwW: gj jinx lawl 3xwW: 😀 3xwW: come i will tank 3xwW: wtf 3xwW: we could do them 3xwW: what the fok 3xwW: we had them 3xwW: why u both ran away 3xwW: stupid mas ter yi 3xwW: 0 logic 3xwW: Troller master yi 3xwW: now we know 3xwW: who u play with 3xwW: premades premades premades 3xwW: riven 3xwW: carry 3xwW: thanks to masters feed 3xwW: no 3xwW: its 4x5 3xwW: and 3xwW: riven carry 3xwW: no one focus him 3xwW: since 3xwW: master yi feed him so mucho 3xwW: why run from me 3xwW: i could save you 3xwW: ... 3xwW: lool 3xwW: well 3xwW: we lost cuz of ur premade 3xwW: who feeded top 3xwW: nasus could have riven 1x1 3xwW: but he died for no reason 3xwW: for foking riven 3xwW: and said 3xwW: lag 3xwW: xDD 3xwW: now he range quit xD 3xwW: and ofc u blam me 3xwW: i ganked bot lane 3xwW: 2 times or 3 3xwW: gave u that kills 3xwW: and u talk shi ta bout my pick 3xwW: morgana u supose to protect 3xwW: ur adc not to go in 3xwW: like idiot 3xwW: FUUUUUUK YES 3xwW: 😀 3xwW: u cant get him 3xwW: def base 3xwW: nasus 3xwW: hahahahhaha 3xwW: this is how bosted u are 3xwW: xDD 3xwW: STFU 3xwW: go chat with master yi 3xwW: split? 3xwW: srsly? 3xwW: lack vision 3xwW: team up 3xwW: i got riven on stun 3xwW: than she teleport behind 3xwW: but still 3xwW: 4x5 is 4x5 3xwW: together 3xwW: to - get - her 3xwW: lost baron 3xwW: rly? 3xwW: and? 3xwW: cry more about me 3xwW: while u dont see ur self 3xwW: and ur position 3xwW: u are funny guy 3xwW: i didnt flame u 3xwW: before u 3xwW: flames me 3xwW: so shut up 3xwW: u just ruined tops lane 3xwW: thats why riven is so strong now 3xwW: 14 deaths 3xwW: keep talkin 3xwW: gg 3xwW: riven carry 3xwW: who did he Q xD 3xwW: creep? 😀 3xwW: GG WP master yi carry ) Game 2 3xwW: no im just at work 3xwW: great 3xwW: .mute all 3xwW: mute 3xwW: go to ur lane 3xwW: u bring him to me 3xwW: tard 3xwW: u are %%%ing usless teemo 3xwW: why the %%% you came to me 3xwW: u bring to me 3xwW: and we both died 3xwW: delete this game 3xwW: stupid usless sh1t 3xwW: yes you are stupid usless sh1t 3xwW: l2p 3xwW: never ganked ur lane 3xwW: and made ur lane usless 3xwW: l2p 3xwW: teemo 3xwW: so? 3xwW: u can avoid fights 3xwW: why fight? 3xwW: cuz u are dumb? 3xwW: no wonder why u are silver 3xwW: silver logic 3xwW: yeah 3xwW: go on kid 3xwW: check lolking.net than talk 3xwW: usless crap 😉 3xwW: u lost ur lane 3xwW: cuz u was 0/2 3xwW: u gave him 2 kills before dat 3xwW: come 1x1 3xwW: after the match 3xwW: u keep talking girl? 3xwW: ORIANA CRYING LIKE GIRL 3xwW: BORED OF YOU 3xwW: 🙂 3xwW: omg u are 3xwW: bunch of girls 3xwW: in my team 3xwW: muted 3xwW: ezreal and 3xwW: ori muted 3xwW: probably premades 3xwW: %%% 3xwW: : ) 3xwW: blind as %%% 3xwW: ? 3xwW: ok 3xwW: fail 3xwW: max 3xwW: fuuuuuuk 3xwW: dont follow if wasted 3xwW: all ulties 3xwW: 0 VISION 3xwW: BAD POSITION Game 3 3xwW: whatever 3xwW: talk more 3xwW: akali 3xwW: usless 3xwW: ) 3xwW: rep 3xwW: rep 3xwW: rep 3xwW: repper 3xwW: ALL REPORT REPORT YESS 3xwW: ALL REPOOORTTT 3xwW: since then 3xwW: xera 3xwW: is 3xwW: support 3xwW: talk to me jarvan 3xwW: u %%%er 3xwW: stfu 3xwW: im bored of u jarvan 3xwW: yes focus support 3xwW: i try 3xwW: stop cry 3xwW: baby boy 3xwW: keep crying 3xwW: lool 3xwW: mid 3xwW: stupid 3xwW: jar 3xwW: GG 3xwW: yeah i troll with xera 3xwW: on supports 3xwW: since jarvan went bot lane to kill jax and give up on mid lane 3xwW: very good logics 3xwW: despred guy jax 3xwW: gg 3xwW: lose 3xwW: OK 3xwW: RIGHT 3xwW: wtf 3xwW: udo 3xwW: theu just destory 3xwW: idiots 3xwW: oh lol xDD
Rioter Comments
Febos (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=CalmN,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=UumeXEew,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2017-10-16T09:44:20.391+0000) > > She was just as fine succubus before, now shes some kind of slut, i dont like this at all, but i guess for each their own, everyone have their own opinion, i think ahri filled that role way better and there was no need for another charmy killer. I don't particularly like all the sexual innuendos. In my opinion they could have used a few less. That said, I like how she looks more now. In folklore, a succubu is described as a beautiful and sexually provocative demon whom sole purpose is to atract its victims using its female appearance. In other words, the sexier the better and "charm" (not the skill) is her weapon. > [{quoted}](name=CalmN,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=UumeXEew,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2017-10-16T09:44:20.391+0000) > > The thing with "New" evelynn is - still no decent burst, really low bases, ratios. She cant be an assassin with such a kit and no burst, now they even removed her W so she has no means to get to the target and do her assassin stuff. Yes, I agree that Evelynn feels weak. Let just remind you that Riot's idea of an Assassin isn't someone that can kill their target in less than 1 second (even though most assassins can still do that). They wanted her to have a small window of time to opperate and that's why her Q damage is spread out over 3 casts and her cooldowns are so high. That said, she's nowhere near a late game threat (against a proper team). She gains a lot of utility at level 6 and at level 10ish is when she becomes a real threat. Up until level 15ish is when she can shine. After that point assassinating someone will be increasingly harder. Let me repeat the important part: burst isn't necessarily good. Also, her base damage isn't all that bad. Her Q has higher base damage and her E resets whenever she goes into Demon Shade, meaning free empowered %Hp damage every 5..6 seconds (ganks, retreats and goes back in). Her R also has higher base damage (I'll have a simple scenario bellow). Her new W is what feels very lackluster. 2.5 seconds to activate her charm and it's a very telegraphed ability. Maybe it just takes time to get used to. ######Old R level 2 -> Target with 1500 HP (full hp) deals 300 damage (before resists). If the same target had lost 20% of their HP it would deal 240; against the same target with only 30% HP it would deal 90. ######New R level 2 -> 275 damage if above 30% HP and 550 if below. Compared to her old R this ability deasl a lot more base damage to that target if it's below 80% HP. Let me remind you that her targets are not supposed to be Tanks (ie someone with a lot of HP). ######I chose those numbers for a specific reason: 1500 HP is how much HP Evelynn has at level 12 and that's when I said she's supposed to shine. At level 12 she has two points in her R, so that's I used the 20% current HP (old R) and the 275 base damage (new R).
> [{quoted}](name=Febos,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=UumeXEew,comment-id=00010001000000000001,timestamp=2017-10-16T15:58:43.420+0000) > > ######Old R level 2 -> Target with 1500 HP (full hp) deals 300 damage (before resists). If the same target had lost 20% of their HP it would deal 240; against the same target with only 30% HP it would deal 90. > ######New R level 2 -> 275 damage if above 30% HP and 550 if below. Compared to her old R this ability deasl a lot more base damage to that target if it's below 80% HP. Let me remind you that her targets are not supposed to be Tanks (ie someone with a lot of HP). > ######I chose those numbers for a specific reason: 1500 HP is how much HP Evelynn has at level 12 and that's when I said she's supposed to shine. At level 12 she has two points in her R, so that's I used the 20% current HP (old R) and the 275 base damage (new R). Sorry for such late response, after eve rework i dont play league that often, pretty much never. But i wanted to tell that you forgot how much better her R was in terms of utility, i mean the shield was the bomb, slow was great for her as well, w speed+ slow was a perfect way to get in, get someone, w reset = get out. In sheer damage it loses, but it was overall better ult, plus new ulti is full of uncertainty, it shows when a person is 30%, not when u will execute them, thus lots of time you can simply leave people with a spec of hp and pretty much let them escape. While these mistakes are avoidable, but they definitely very uncertain. P.s its funny how riot never listens to underplayed champion true mains and their ideas, then reworks the champion to something completely different and most of the mains drop the champion completely, i do think thats a bad business model + decisions from balance/rework teams. :)
Renold (EUNE)
: You sound like a feminist LOL.
> [{quoted}](name=Renold,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=gTmg8ou7,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-01-11T21:02:31.958+0000) > > You sound like a feminist LOL. Im not a feminist, but also not a frisky teenager anymore, shes annoying and i dont like hearing all that bullshit of her.
: >she was stalking succubus but from where they decided "lets make her slutty succubus".. WHY? Her character can work completely fine without that aspect. But her character **_IS_** that aspect..... ...you do know what succubus means, right? If she's not overtly sexual and coming across as sexually available (which you see as slutty) how else do you do "Aggressively predatory sex demon"? Perhaps you would prefer "Rapey Evelyn"? I don't that'll go down well. Just imagine the quotes...
> [{quoted}](name=revengingangel,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=gTmg8ou7,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-01-11T20:20:14.386+0000) > > But her character **_IS_** that aspect..... > > ...you do know what succubus means, right? > > If she's not overtly sexual and coming across as sexually available (which you see as slutty) how else do you do "Aggressively predatory sex demon"? > > Perhaps you would prefer "Rapey Evelyn"? I don't that'll go down well. Just imagine the quotes... Many other aspects dont fill in her "succubus" role too, real succubus's had sex with asleep men, never killing them instantly, but instead draining them out of their life energy over a period of time, which is out of her character and kit completely, so how comes?
Infernape (EUW)
: She always was slutty. Why did you think old Evelynn barely wore clothes.
> [{quoted}](name=FurorDivinus27,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=gTmg8ou7,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-01-11T20:33:40.933+0000) > > She always was slutty. Why did you think old Evelynn barely wore clothes. Considering this and her initial, reworked, etc states thats over the top i mean her quotes were a lot more lively back in the days "misery loves company" or "its really hard to move like that in heels" - thats okay, she was succubus enough apart from her kit even then, now they really did over squeeze their lemon. I mean graves cigar was nothing compared to this - buying void staff "Oh its so big.. imagine all the places this could go". - WTF?
Arnoter (EUW)
: Dont be a Virgin about something a Video Game Character says and you will be fine {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
> [{quoted}](name=Arnoter,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=gTmg8ou7,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-01-11T20:00:02.348+0000) > > Dont be a Virgin about something a Video Game Character says and you will be fine {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} Or im just mature enough to not want to hear such stupid and meaningless things. I bet desperate teens love those changes, but for me - thanks i dont want those.
Rioter Comments
: Funny thing is, she was always supposed to be the bursty assassin. She's just been toned down so much over the years that she has ended up as this diver. And she does need this rework. The way she is now means that Riot can't actually buff her without unbalancing her due to her perma-stealth. Now she's got the chance to be what she is meant to be. And let's be real, character wise, the old Eve was barebones as all hell and desperately needed some love.
> [{quoted}](name=The7thSeal,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=M3NfeTHl,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-09-28T19:19:09.926+0000) > > Funny thing is, she was always supposed to be the bursty assassin. She's just been toned down so much over the years that she has ended up as this diver. > And she does need this rework. The way she is now means that Riot can't actually buff her without unbalancing her due to her perma-stealth. Now she's got the chance to be what she is meant to be. And let's be real, character wise, the old Eve was barebones as all hell and desperately needed some love. and instead of love or buffs she got toned down even more by extraordinary margins. She still has no burst, lost any movement steroid, got useless W, no gap closer, bad escape, and got big cooldowns aka u cant do shit with her now.
ZeroSixTeen (EUNE)
: 6 item evelyn has no counterplay what-so-ever. targeted charm with targeted damage that one-hits you if you have under 3K health and under 150 mr. you need both. I would love to see riot employee play against that as ANYTHING but a full tank. just to see them intensely hate their own work.
> [{quoted}](name=ZeroSixTeen,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=M3NfeTHl,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-10-17T18:09:56.143+0000) > > 6 item evelyn has no counterplay what-so-ever. targeted charm with targeted damage that one-hits you if you have under 3K health and under 150 mr. you need both. I would love to see riot employee play against that as ANYTHING but a full tank. just to see them intensely hate their own work. her q is spellshot, her W is %%%%%%ed piece of shit it might as well can be deleted, useless shit past 25min mark non existent. how can you even die or get damage from eve? Now SHES CRAWLING with 335 ms and no gap closer or speed steroid, she cant proc her charm she cant even get near anyone decent and with brains without being blown. Shes in the worst spot she ever was and im talking about pre-rework times too, even then she was stronger after "purposeful nerf so no one would play her" riot official purposeful overnerf until stealth reworks was more gentle than this shit.
Febos (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=CalmN,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=UumeXEew,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-10-15T12:04:04.695+0000) > > Her new Q has same damage like her old one, if we consider cooldown and prolonged time, new Q has Less DPS. Let me start with this one since it's the easiest to refute. Against monsters, regardless of AP and level of the skill, her new Q is strickly better. Against champions her old Q is always better. That said, the difference in DPS is very mininal. Besides, she's an Assassin, so she isn't supposed to be "in your face" dealing DPS. Her damage must be in line with other assassins (deal damage fast and flee) otherwise you couldn't call her an "assassin". Her new Q deals damage faster and has that long cooldown (which will be buffed in the next patch). > [{quoted}](name=CalmN,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=UumeXEew,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-10-15T12:04:04.695+0000) > > You forgot how much utility it gave 50% slow and 1.5k hp shield? There is no way such a cliche finisher she got with such a long animation can even come near it. That's one of the things wrong with old Eve. Assassins don't need, nor should they have, damage mitigation in their kits. Look at Rengar as the prime example of how such an innocent mechanic can be so frustrating at times. You also have Ekko and Fizz. Those champions are frustating especially because they have some sort of damage mitigation in their kits. An assassin isn't supposed to be "immune" to damage and that R gave her that. Also, Assassins are not engagers. It's not their job to start a fight and that's what her R did. Assassins are supposed to, well, assassinate. Look at Katarina, LeBlanc, Rengar, Kha'Zix, Shadow Kayn, etc. Evelynn's R failed to accomplish that. Sure, you could use her R to "assassinate" a squishy, but, and you said it yourself, the best use of that ultimate would be against a full team. Don't you think that's kinda odd for an Assassin? > [{quoted}](name=CalmN,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=UumeXEew,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-10-15T12:04:04.695+0000) > > dont forget they removed her big strength - Hybrid and versatile to build according to situation. This was her major flaw. I can understand why you would like this, but hybrid champions have always been a problem in League. Just look at what they did with Shaco recently. Hybrid champions, especially Assassins, shouldn't exist. That was not her strenght. That was her "weakness" which would leave her in a perpetual imbalanced stated (either too strong or overnerfed). > [{quoted}](name=CalmN,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=UumeXEew,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-10-15T12:04:04.695+0000) > > Now passive - hp, vs mp, i prefer mana, but her HP regen at late game is definitely really good so id say its a tie, but since the stealth is delayed - a slight nerf. At least we can agree on this. Her mana problems are less of an issue when she has Echoes, but until she can buy it she'll struggle to maintain her mana pool healthy. Her new HP passive is good when she has some AP - at level 10 with Echoes her passive kicks in when she's below 50% HP (it gets better the more AP she has). > [{quoted}](name=CalmN,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=UumeXEew,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-10-15T12:04:04.695+0000) > > She got butchered plus that ahri v2 character does not suit her at all. This one falls into the "lore category". She is, and always has been, some sort of vampiric creature (succubus we call it). This new version is a much better implementation of this idea. > [{quoted}](name=CalmN,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=UumeXEew,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-10-15T12:04:04.695+0000) > > Oh i forgot to add this comes from eve main with 3k+ games in plat/dia leagues. Unnecessary information; the typical authority fallacy. I dont' care if you are Bronze, Silver, Master, Challenger or the President. All I care about is facts. I can agree with some of the things you said as, you correctly assumed, I didn't play with/against Eve all that often. On the other hand, I can look at both kits and tell you what each of them fails to accomplish. In this case, her old R was terrible from a design standpoint. The hybrid idea is also pretty bad (as I've explained above). Her new W feels weak because, as you said, it's very hard to proc it and it doesn't do much of anything. However, I like the new Q and new R. I have nothing to say about her old W as it wasn't a bad ability. *** Just give it some time to adjust and I'm sure you'll like this Evelynn even more.
> [{quoted}](name=The Febos,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=UumeXEew,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2017-10-15T13:28:01.785+0000) > > > That said, the difference in DPS is very mininal. Besides, she's an Assassin, so she isn't supposed to be "in your face" dealing DPS. Her damage must be in line with other assassins (deal damage fast and flee) otherwise you couldn't call her an "assassin". > > Her new Q deals damage faster and has that long cooldown (which will be buffed in the next patch). > > That's one of the things wrong with old Eve. Assassins don't need, nor should they have, damage mitigation in their kits. Look at Rengar as the prime example of how such an innocent mechanic can be so frustrating at times. You also have Ekko and Fizz. Those champions are frustating especially because they have some sort of damage mitigation in their kits. > An assassin isn't supposed to be "immune" to damage and that R gave her that. Well but still its a nerf nonetheless, making it a spellshot, thus less reliable and giving lower numbers is just dumb. I agree that assasins should be like that, but look at eve ratios and base damage, you will get to know that 50 dmg per tick on Q is nowhere of assassin level. Same for 120 BASE dmg on E, she has no burst to be an assassin to begin with, the only reliable burst she has in her kit is buying litch bane and hextech, thats why she was so different from other assassins her utility kit was meant to set her up, all of her strength were in utility, items. > > Also, Assassins are not engagers. > At least this gave her some kind of initiation, now what can she do when she sees an opportunity or squishy target? run to him with 335 MS ? while he will most likely have the same MS or even more, so pretty much you can do nothing. Even if u get speed quints, speed boots, etc the window of reaction will be too great for anyone decent enough to let you near, from adc,apc and support standpoint. > This was her major flaw. I can understand why you would like this, but hybrid champions have always been a problem in League. Just look at what they did with Shaco recently. Hybrid champions, especially Assassins, shouldn't exist. > That was not her strength. That was her "weakness" which would leave her in a perpetual imbalanced stated (either too strong or overnerfed). > Most of her life as a champion she was always overnerfed, thus hybrid actually did help her to at least be somewhat okay in good hands. > At least we can agree on this. Her mana problems are less of an issue when she has Echoes, but until she can buy it she'll struggle to maintain her mana pool healthy. Her new HP passive is good when she has some AP - at level 10 with Echoes her passive kicks in when she's below 50% HP (it gets better the more AP she has). > > This one falls into the "lore category". She is, and always has been, some sort of vampiric creature (succubus we call it). This new version is a much better implementation of this idea. She was just as fine succubus before, now shes some kind of slut, i dont like this at all, but i guess for each their own, everyone have their own opinion, i think ahri filled that role way better and there was no need for another charmy killer. > > Unnecessary information; the typical authority fallacy. I dont' care if you are Bronze, Silver, Master, Challenger or the President. All I care about is facts. I can agree with some of the things you said as, you correctly assumed, I didn't play with/against Eve all that often. On the other hand, I can look at both kits and tell you what each of them fails to accomplish. It was just to say that i knew her old kit extremely well, and i had great win rates with her, even though most people thought shes really bad and overnerfed, but i learned to squeeze every bit of utility and other tricks she had and be really successful even if in lobby people were crying to leave and called me a troll, now she lost all of that utility and mini strengths and got NOTHING to compensate. > > In this case, her old R was terrible from a design standpoint. The hybrid idea is also pretty bad (as I've explained above). Her new W feels weak because, as you said, it's very hard to proc it and it doesn't do much of anything. However, I like the new Q and new R. > I have nothing to say about her old W as it wasn't a bad ability. > *** > Just give it some time to adjust and I'm sure you'll like this Evelynn even more. The thing with "New" evelynn is - still no decent burst, really low bases, ratios. She cant be an assassin with such a kit and no burst, now they even removed her W so she has no means to get to the target and do her assassin stuff. She have some "shitty" disengage on big cooldown but shes nowhere near any other assassin, even supports have better base damage on their abilities. Without utility this new eve is and will be shit. Shes like the old one relies on items for burst, not her bad bases and ratios. But she has nothing to help her use these items successfully now. Her new kit is even more odd and even harder to balance, she either needs her old W back, double range on her stealth E jump or some kind of other speed steroid, now she cant even get near anyone, it was hard enough with old one, with speed, slow and huge shield, now without all of this its pretty much impossible. Overall all her damage was nerfed, reliability nerfed, utility deleted, she got ult with great bases,ap ratios but needs targets to be 30% or less. In no way this eve is strong and i doubt she will, unless major buffs or kit change will be made. I prefer her old W to get back, jump just isnt for her in all of her releases she had some kind of speed steroid, she was a speedy killer and should be now shes just crawling like cockroach and expect people to stay still.
Febos (EUW)
: Don't judge your opinion of Evelynn based on youtubers, at least not this soon. Just look at [her numbers](http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Evelynn) to have a better understanding. I'll compare the current Evelynn (old) to reworked Evelynn (reworked): - Base stats -> Broadly speaking, the reworked has more stats early game, but the one we are interested in is effective HP. She has 40 extra HP at level 1, more health regen (passive and base stats) and slightly more armour. - Passive -> The old one is better during the early game because the reworked only gives stealth after level 6. There's also the mana regen vs health regen. It's hard to gauge how big of a difference it is with just this information, but I'll get into that later. - Q -> Regarding both base damage and scaling, the reworked is better against monsters. The old Q is more flexible since you won't overkill stuff, it's on a 1.5s cooldown and it isn't a skillshot. It also old costs less mana to deal the same damage early game (and she still has her passive). I say that her old Q is better at very early game, both against monsters and champions, but the reworked is better after she has 4 points in it. - W -> Completely different abilities, so no point in comparing them. Arguably the ability to break slows and move faster might be better than CC (she's an assassin after all), but the reworked W packs a big punch, which nullifies the differences on her Q. - E -> Reworked version does %Max HP. That should be enough to make a point, but it also has the ability to "follow" targets (similarly to Warwick's Q), costs less mana and lower cooldown. Let's say she maxes her E 2nd at level 13. At that point she deals slightly less damage to squishy targets. She also loses the attack speed buff which is useful early game. All in all, I would say her reworked version is better mid-game onwards. - R -> Reworked with higher cooldown early game, the same mid to late-game. However, her reworked damage is bonkers, especially on low HP targets. It's also very flexible, allowing her to close gaps to secure kills or escape. Her R is strickly better at all stages of the game. Now the final verdict. It's obvious that her early game was gutted. Not having the ability to be stealth doesn't allow her to cheese ganks/invades. Her clearing speed is slower which makes her reach level 6 later. The buff to base stats can't change that, although her reworked passive allows her to stay in the jungle longer. When she gets her R she becomes a real threat, much alike the other Assassins (except Shaco ;-;). She gains the ability to be stealth and her R is obviously much stronger for ganks. Mid game they are equally matched if not better with her rework. From that point on the reworked version keeps getting better. Take what you want from this. ######Bare in mind that this analyzes is only true for the numbers that we have right now.
> [{quoted}](name=The Febos,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=UumeXEew,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-09-27T10:09:00.752+0000) > > Don't judge your opinion of Evelynn based on youtubers, at least not this soon. Just look at [her numbers](http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Evelynn) to have a better understanding. I'll compare the current Evelynn (old) to reworked Evelynn (reworked): > > - Base stats -> Broadly speaking, the reworked has more stats early game, but the one we are interested in is effective HP. She has 40 extra HP at level 1, more health regen (passive and base stats) and slightly more armour. > - Passive -> The old one is better during the early game because the reworked only gives stealth after level 6. There's also the mana regen vs health regen. It's hard to gauge how big of a difference it is with just this information, but I'll get into that later. > - Q -> Regarding both base damage and scaling, the reworked is better against monsters. The old Q is more flexible since you won't overkill stuff, it's on a 1.5s cooldown and it isn't a skillshot. It also old costs less mana to deal the same damage early game (and she still has her passive). I say that her old Q is better at very early game, both against monsters and champions, but the reworked is better after she has 4 points in it. > - W -> Completely different abilities, so no point in comparing them. Arguably the ability to break slows and move faster might be better than CC (she's an assassin after all), but the reworked W packs a big punch, which nullifies the differences on her Q. > - E -> Reworked version does %Max HP. That should be enough to make a point, but it also has the ability to "follow" targets (similarly to Warwick's Q), costs less mana and lower cooldown. Let's say she maxes her E 2nd at level 13. At that point she deals slightly less damage to squishy targets. She also loses the attack speed buff which is useful early game. All in all, I would say her reworked version is better mid-game onwards. > - R -> Reworked with higher cooldown early game, the same mid to late-game. However, her reworked damage is bonkers, especially on low HP targets. It's also very flexible, allowing her to close gaps to secure kills or escape. Her R is strickly better at all stages of the game. > > Now the final verdict. It's obvious that her early game was gutted. Not having the ability to be stealth doesn't allow her to cheese ganks/invades. Her clearing speed is slower which makes her reach level 6 later. The buff to base stats can't change that, although her reworked passive allows her to stay in the jungle longer. > When she gets her R she becomes a real threat, much alike the other Assassins (except Shaco ;-;). She gains the ability to be stealth and her R is obviously much stronger for ganks. Mid game they are equally matched if not better with her rework. From that point on the reworked version keeps getting better. > > Take what you want from this. > ######Bare in mind that this analyzes is only true for the numbers that we have right now. I see you never had many experience with eve, her R is strictly heaps shittier than her old R. You forgot how much utility it gave 50% slow and 1.5k hp shield? There is no way such a cliche finisher she got with such a long animation can even come near it. Her hp % was in her ult, not E thus far better since you could do (even more) to 5 targets at once, now shes stuck with it, dont forget they removed her big strength - Hybrid and versatile to build according to situation. Her W is the biggest hit in her kit, old W was her breed and butter superior in every way than her new W which is really odd, because she has no speed to follow up on that charm, because they deleted her speed steroid which was necessary. Her new Q has same damage like her old one, if we consider cooldown and prolonged time, new Q has Less DPS. Now passive - hp, vs mp, i prefer mana, but her HP regen at late game is definitely really good so id say its a tie, but since the stealth is delayed - a slight nerf. TL-DR R got a huge nerf, her R had similar damage to full hp team, a lot of needed utility, 1k~ damage execute can never get near the strength of 1.5k hp shield and aoe 50% slow. W extreme nerf, now she cant engage,disengage, re-engage and so forth. She got some crappy W which she cant proc, because her running speed is so low. E debatable, but considering her Hp proc from aoe made to single target, but with max hp and really low base damage, no AD scaling so you are forced to build AP - ID say its a weakness. Q - Same burst potential, a lot less DPS and since its skill shot, less reliable. Passive - HP or MP debatable, HP regen is really good at late game, but stealth at level 6, so id say slightly weaker. Now the thing is - Riot completely butchered much needed utility from her kit, now shes left with less then mediocre damage and no means to help herself out. Her new kit and finisher cant compensate for so much lost utility, Huge shield, aoe slow, aoe hp%, speed, anti slow- reset type steroid, hybrid damage, atk speed, dps and over all versatility to build whatever you need according to situation was lost. For such loss she got high cooldown, slow animation, low range finisher ult with good 6/10 level damage, then falls behind. Unrewarding charm mechanic which is too slow and too hard to proc vs enemies who are not brain dead. She got butchered plus that ahri v2 character does not suit her at all. Oh i forgot to add this comes from eve main with 3k+ games in plat/dia leagues.
: [Feedback for Riot] The raping of Eve
They did not give anything for compensation of butchering her abilities i mean 1.5k hp shield for bad finisher? which animation is so slow that you get cc'ed killed before you blink out. Now W is complete and utter crap, it could work for ahri or anyone who HAVE DIVE potential, she cant proc it, if players are moving, her run speed is pathetic, Her old W did her ability to engage/disengage/re-engage, etc now she has no speed steroid and no ways to engage, her disengage has high cooldown and is pretty much not reliable. Her old kit was heaps stronger and better than old one, Q had more DPS, E got a buff, but its not magic dmg, R is far worse, because of no utility, W hit her the most. Ok she can now clear jungle and stay very healthy and do it with ease, but whats the point, her old W was breed and butter. Shes like a dog with 5 legs now, even though her old kit was odd, at least you could do some rotations with it. P.s this comes from a guy which combined have over 3k+ games in plat/dia back in the days when i was playing this game.
ThePikol (EUNE)
: You can use "close client during game" option. When you launch client in right-upper corner you have options. Find it there and see if it helps. Remember that it will make you wait 1-2 min to see post-game stats as the client must open again
> [{quoted}](name=ThePikol,realm=EUNE,application-id=VnI9tlaf,discussion-id=OJAETPzN,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-05-30T06:29:11.505+0000) > > You can use "close client during game" option. When you launch client in right-upper corner you have options. Find it there and see if it helps. Remember that it will make you wait 1-2 min to see post-game stats as the client must open again Thanks a lot. :)
Rioter Comments
: riot nerfed almost every skill they touched by nerfing base damage and ratios. Only on champions like brand and vladimir got encouraged to build a bit more tanky. Vel'koz always had the true damage and it had higher base damage but no ratio. now it has a bit lower base but they added ratio to it. Vel'koz will not be built tanky.
> [{quoted}](name=Banana Splits,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=tmhkZBAz,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-05-05T01:19:54.441+0000) > > riot nerfed almost every skill they touched by nerfing base damage and ratios. Only on champions like brand and vladimir got encouraged to build a bit more tanky. > > Vel'koz always had the true damage and it had higher base damage but no ratio. now it has a bit lower base but they added ratio to it. Vel'koz will not be built tanky. He had true damage from passive, now his WHOLE ULT will deal true dmg if you proc your thingies before shooting it, plus i dont think vel koz will be built tanky, his kit does not benefit from it as much as others mentioned.
Puddytat (EUW)
: I find it all too much to take in. I've only just discovered that the Needlessly Large Rod no longer builds into Zhonya's. Argh. It's like being level 10 all over again, only knowing half the champions and half the items.
> [{quoted}](name=Puddytat,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=tmhkZBAz,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-05-04T23:18:52.307+0000) > > I find it all too much to take in. I've only just discovered that the Needlessly Large Rod no longer builds into Zhonya's. Argh. It's like being level 10 all over again, only knowing half the champions and half the items. I never understood this concept of mid season purposeful balance destruction
CalmN (EUNE)
: 6.9 madness.
And with qqs changes zed can perma delete every adc he ever wants. Its just strange, the fact that they are immobile makes tanky builds even more appealing. High bases %/hp and high range, low ratios = whats the point to even bother building AP. I dont understand the mindset behind this. Get void staff and stack as much hp/armor/mr as you can = profit.
Rioter Comments
kurnubego (EUNE)
: It may come as a news to you, but game is not supposed to be balanced 1v1 pvp. Some champions are in fact designed to win 1v1 by default. Try to see the bigger picture. And what champions are designed to achieve what in different stages of the game. Also, picking comps or champions is part of "macro" skill so to say. Your game knowledge being applied to real effect later on. This does require of player to forsee, understand and plan ahead. Not all people are capable of it.
> [{quoted}](name=kurnubego,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=GTHmqqZb,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2016-03-18T17:06:08.428+0000) > > It may come as a news to you, but game is not supposed to be balanced 1v1 pvp. Some champions are in fact designed to win 1v1 by default. Try to see the bigger picture. And what champions are designed to achieve what in different stages of the game. > > Also, picking comps or champions is part of "macro" skill so to say. Your game knowledge being applied to real effect later on. This does require of player to forsee, understand and plan ahead. Not all people are capable of it. Oh yeah, but i call it disbalance when a champion is superior in dueling and team fighting and with cc and jack of all trades and master of them all. Riven should be a good 1v1 dueler, because its really easy to shut her down in teamfights, but i guess. well.
HUN Nemut (EUNE)
: I would take the challenge xD An example trade combo in a Riven vs. Trundle matchup: Go in with E, let the shield soak up the autoatack+Q combo, while you do a Q, then when the shield is gone, do W and another Q for dmg or to create distance, and run, u saved the last Q to jump over the pillar, and it's now not an obstacle to you, but it is for Trundle... You can use his ability against him...
> [{quoted}](name=HUN Nemut,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=GTHmqqZb,comment-id=0002000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-21T12:22:45.001+0000) > > I would take the challenge xD > An example trade combo in a Riven vs. Trundle matchup: > Go in with E, let the shield soak up the autoatack+Q combo, while you do a Q, then when the shield is gone, do W and another Q for dmg or to create distance, and run, u saved the last Q to jump over the pillar, and it's now not an obstacle to you, but it is for Trundle... You can use his ability against him... Lets try this, he have superior speed and does not need pillar for trades, he can use it to interrupt your E or Q's, Riven shield is way too poor to bait his Q, just smack riven with trundle until she starts to run away use pillar to stop the Q, eat that ass - repeat.
: That's why I need to stick to the example cause I don't know of any that really are "total shut-downs" or "unwinnable matchups" cause in my mind they don't exsist. You gave me your example and I tried to explain to you how even that matchup i don't see as "unwinnable". Ofc there will always be hard-counters, etc. but till now it never broke the game cause there are many ways to go around it. So as long as those possibilities exsist you just have to make use of them. That's my whole point. And ofc it sucks for you that you are made "useless" with just a champioinpick but like I said already if he just picks the champ for the sake of counterpicking you will still win out in the long run cause he's not as experienced with the champion and doesn't know his limits weaknesses as you on your champion. (Even just as an example I main Nasus and my worst nightmare are matchups like Ryze, Teemo and many other ranged matchups but over time I learned how to deal with them and I am still pretty usefull at around the same time (around **max** 5-10 mins longer))
> [{quoted}](name=Pedromaster,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=GTHmqqZb,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-17T14:42:30.571+0000) > > That's why I need to stick to the example cause I don't know of any that really are "total shut-downs" or "unwinnable matchups" cause in my mind they don't exsist. You gave me your example and I tried to explain to you how even that matchup i don't see as "unwinnable". > Ofc there will always be hard-counters, etc. but till now it never broke the game cause there are many ways to go around it. So as long as those possibilities exsist you just have to make use of them. That's my whole point. And ofc it sucks for you that you are made "useless" with just a champioinpick but like I said already if he just picks the champ for the sake of counterpicking you will still win out in the long run cause he's not as experienced with the champion and doesn't know his limits weaknesses as you on your champion. > > (Even just as an example I main Nasus and my worst nightmare are matchups like Ryze, Teemo and many other ranged matchups but over time I learned how to deal with them and I am still pretty usefull at around the same time (around **max** 5-10 mins longer)) You dont got my question right, i was never stating that there are no ways around something, i was just asking is it justified that you have to switch whole game fluidity and in solo queue players are not that great at teamwork, only because of one mere pick, be it lane swaps, roams, jungler babysiting and so on. I gave you the perfect example of hard shut-down, Riven wont do anything never, ever to a trundle starting from lvl 1 to complete full builds end game. (She have a mere chance at lvl 2 and after that its done, even that chance at lvl 2 is really slim). Thats what i call a shut down, no matter how good you will play you will still lose, unless outside forces are influencing it. And still even if you go 3/0 in laning phase, that same champion (trundle for example) will out scale you and will be a lot more useful in the late game.
: the most suffering now its solo players since thay can face x4 premades with voice chat while his team can have x 4 premades with out voice chat .I had same issues at solo playing alot of times .And enemy team or your team are extremly better at this point .So kinda its gamle 2 play solo in general .And you will keep face unfair machups .However if you got atleast 2 friends that are your elo and can comunicate with ya you will win alot of more games .It wont be every game but it will be more than 50 % winrate in most of the time since you will have the game in your hands .Just find some friends coz soloQ its dead in this season .And basicly all you can do its adapt 2 new game .No one will chage it just for you ,good luck .
> [{quoted}](name=Elimin,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=GTHmqqZb,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-03-17T12:25:51.393+0000) > > the most suffering now its solo players since thay can face x4 premades with voice chat while his team can have x 4 premades with out voice chat .I had same issues at solo playing alot of times .And enemy team or your team are extremly better at this point .So kinda its gamle 2 play solo in general .And you will keep face unfair machups .However if you got atleast 2 friends that are your elo and can comunicate with ya you will win alot of more games .It wont be every game but it will be more than 50 % winrate in most of the time since you will have the game in your hands .Just find some friends coz soloQ its dead in this season .And basicly all you can do its adapt 2 new game .No one will chage it just for you ,good luck . I guess you are right. I saw that people at my elo suddenly became extremely good and plays like they are on voice chat or playing together for a long time and it becomes really frustrating experience, riot failed with those dynamic queues
: > [{quoted}](name=CalmN,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=GTHmqqZb,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-03-17T11:36:06.064+0000) > > You see its a winnable match-up if you only need a few kills to win the lane. But there are some where even kills wont help you and you will scale to shit compared to the other one and he will fuck you over, anyway. Thus jungler babysitting is necessary = other lanes stay vulnerable and get little to no attention from friendly jungler. So its a lose/lose situation and thats why i think the simple pick have way too much impact. Actually, no. This matchup depends on if darius starts with q or w and levels up w ore second. A w-e start destroys shyvana. A q-w start is only place where shyvana may turn the tide WITH THE HELP of jungler OR pushing heavilyand lasthitting every minion to gain lvl advantage fast. And even then, you need to keep killing. as soon as darius reaches lvl 3 and you dont have 4 kills on him, you are doomed. Another matchup where you just can't scale, is Renekton vs Hecarim and Renekton vs Pantheon. Both times, Renekton is most likely to lose the matchup and only way to win, is again getting 4 kills ahead by lvl 3 or 4. As everybody know, thats hardly achievable. Also, I usually ask my jungler to completely ignore my lane and snowball other lanes out of control, when I get countered this hard. So far, lost only 2 games, because jungler did not listen and camped top instead of camping bot or mid or counterjungling or taking drakes or hundred more things that could have been done.
> [{quoted}](name=BlueFrost Archer,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=GTHmqqZb,comment-id=000400000001,timestamp=2016-03-17T12:07:45.575+0000) > As a jungle main i usually do the same, especially if opponent on top of being hard counter scales a lot better than my teammate. Its harsh of course, because rarely anyone acknowledges your decision and starts crying, flaming, trolling.
Skere (EUW)
: Not sure what you are talking about. I never play riven, and I played her once vs trundle. That was an HUGE stomp in my favor (and the ranks are about equal, I'm dia3 and he was dia4, both toplane mains)
> [{quoted}](name=Skere,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=GTHmqqZb,comment-id=00020001000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-17T11:46:29.963+0000) > > Not sure what you are talking about. I never play riven, and I played her once vs trundle. That was an HUGE stomp in my favor (and the ranks are about equal, I'm dia3 and he was dia4, both toplane mains) I would love you to show the example, take riven ill take trundle and lets try it, and i am fairly confident that out of 10 matches you will not win any. Especially in season 6 where riven is lackluster and trundle paths of itemization are perfect.
: Somebody else correct me if I'm wrong but I'm just thinking you overrate Trundle waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much. Yes atm he's pretty decent but it's not like you can't do anything against him. Trundle is only good in long sustained fights if you just go in for burst and run away (which riven can do very well and even poppy to some extent) than he doesn't really provide that ability that you described. For the second point. Yeah that can prove true in some scenarios but I still think if you really just go for the counterpick aspect rather than the overall usefullness of a champion in your team then you will burn your fingers pretty hard as soon as the your laneopponent survives the laningphase (not just with jungleganks but with roaming, farming jungle or in short just doing other things and coming back to lane for farm at turret) and you hit midgame.
> [{quoted}](name=Pedromaster,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=GTHmqqZb,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2016-03-17T11:55:55.880+0000) > > Somebody else correct me if I'm wrong but I'm just thinking you overrate Trundle waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much. Yes atm he's pretty decent but it's not like you can't do anything against him. Trundle is only good in long sustained fights if you just go in for burst and run away (which riven can do very well and even poppy to some extent) than he doesn't really provide that ability that you described. > > For the second point. Yeah that can prove true in some scenarios but I still think if you really just go for the counterpick aspect rather than the overall usefullness of a champion in your team then you will burn your fingers pretty hard as soon as the your laneopponent survives the laningphase (not just with jungleganks but with roaming, farming jungle or in short just doing other things and coming back to lane for farm at turret) and you hit midgame. Thats the point trundle is way more useful than riven in most comps, secondly thunder lord made trundle lack of short bursty trades solved. But please guys dont cling to one example, i was talking overall about unwinnable match-ups w/o interference of others and should they stay or are they just frustrating and toxic overall, when a champion main cant win a lane against the same skilled guy only because of his pick..?
Larry (EUNE)
: Do you know the reason why some games are won or lost so easily at the same elo? Because people are not flexible in their build paths and ways of playing, resulting in that particular way of playing destroying enemies or getting you destroyed. Take a very common case where a jungler ganked lanes, failed, or even succeeded but went for devourer, yet in mid game he has 1300 hp and 5 kills, but dies in 3 seconds since the 0/3 enemy built HP. All this gold lead he got was wasted because he got locked down for 3 seconds and died. And these people keep going for more damage, guinsoo's propably,then blaming their team for not killing opponents fast enough. But, if his team has some lockdown (let's say morganna) then this devourer guinsoo's jungler will perform extremely well with it. Yet they can't seem to understand that, and most people while losing, go for more damage to compensate
> [{quoted}](name=Larry,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=GTHmqqZb,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-03-17T10:51:33.385+0000) > Yeah mobafire guys, but past plat its a rare encounter, but still you can see 1/3 shyvanas going devourer and bork and dying faster than their ult animation ends.
: Shyvana vs Darius is one of those matchups where Darius mostly wins the lane. However, here is a way to play around that: Don't let him win the lane, but win the game. Shyvana is exelent roamer and quite good duelist. Having exhaust and Ignite really helps, and with lvl 2 gank from jungler(or a lvl 2 all in) you are capable of winning the lane. That is, if you use exhaust on the right time(When darius gains 4th stack on you or when he winds up for q/w, put exhaust on him, hit another -w-q combo and ignite and basics.
> [{quoted}](name=BlueFrost Archer,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=GTHmqqZb,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-03-17T10:21:57.021+0000) > > Shyvana vs Darius is one of those matchups where Darius mostly wins the lane. However, here is a way to play around that: Don't let him win the lane, but win the game. Shyvana is exelent roamer and quite good duelist. Having exhaust and Ignite really helps, and with lvl 2 gank from jungler(or a lvl 2 all in) you are capable of winning the lane. That is, if you use exhaust on the right time(When darius gains 4th stack on you or when he winds up for q/w, put exhaust on him, hit another -w-q combo and ignite and basics. You see its a winnable match-up if you only need a few kills to win the lane. But there are some where even kills wont help you and you will scale to shit compared to the other one and he will fuck you over, anyway. Thus jungler babysitting is necessary = other lanes stay vulnerable and get little to no attention from friendly jungler. So its a lose/lose situation and thats why i think the simple pick have way too much impact.
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CalmN

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