: Typical response from someone who has no idea how balance works. Just because Leblanc before rework with silence had 45% win rate, doesnt mean her kit wasnt toxic. She was broken to oblivion and anyone knew that. People dont play AP Gragas only because they dont realize how strong it is. Its free lane win. there are too many champions that require 0 mechanics and yet with 0 risk have huge rewards. On the matter actually: Galio is already able to build RoA and deal shit ton of damage. Even without it he is too strong. Those "nerfs", because I cant call nerfs something that takes away 15 base damage and gives him 30% + AP scaling on everything else, will just make him even stronger as RoA + full tank champion.
So your awnser is because they don't realise it. If it's so OP why don't you prove it?
: What issues? You literally need just Lost Chaper. After that item you can just walk to lane from base and go all in. As long as you hit your body slam you have a guaranteed kill simply because AP Gragas has so much base damage and scalings there is no way you can defend yourself. Even with hexdrinker it leaves you with 20% HP at best and you are forced to back or you get killed once his cooldowns on basic abilities come back.
If it's so good then why is it more meta?
: Tips on Climbing?
You know if you were adc main last season then you were adc main plat 3 last season, not jungle. Just because you got into plat 3 using one role, doesnt mean your skill level on other roles is the same.
DeRoo (EUW)
: So you get Q level 2? I can see that in your match history. Not sure if you do this but I rarely miss Q's. This is why. I E myself then auto then Q. They are slowed by the E and it's a free Q unless it's Lucian/Ezreal. If its a vayne u can keep autoing until Vayne Q's then you Q and heal back with W. Your adc will naturally follow. So you should get E before Q. Unless it's against a Leona or something where you need the Q defensively level 2. I never see Nami players doing that ^ I always win lane as Nami (as I said 70+% WR) and it's mainly due to always landing bubble. Everytime! Strong adc pre level 6: WEWQWR (mentality to wear the down with poke) Weaker add pre level 6: WEQWWR (mentality to heal up) Only used when Q is needed at level 2 (usually when it's a Thresh or Leona or blitz) WQEWWR Another support tip I have is with Sona. She plays very similar to Nami. I get 2 movement quints to help vs blitz. But basically get 2 stacks of her passive Aura Chord thing. After 3 stacks your next auto does additional damage. But here's the tip... when on 2 stacks: Auto, Q, Auto. The 3rd stack applys an auto attack reset so you can do a free auto plus the bonus damaged auto and your Q damage. Basically you get to auto twice when your Q. It's sick early game!
Sometimes i get E second, but it's very very rare. I don't tend not to rely on E procs to land Q unless there's enough lane to do it. My playstyle is ussually pretty agressive and enemy tends to be close to turret so there isnt really enough lane for full combo. Also relying on E for the slow to ensure Q lands tends to lead to alot of mana wasted for Es that don't lead into anything. Btw i did say that i do this primarily for self improvemnt reasons.
: Yeah I do, thats how you climb.
Really, Do you do that? Pick according to the team and have no stomps? Also how come im still climbing even if im doing opposite of that?
Foxynerdy (EUW)
: What do you do when a teammate force pick you a champion in ranked...
It happened to me once, too bad i was at my last promos after one win and one loss. Someone mentioned that Janna was open and someone else said they should definetly pick it up, i said no, but somehow got ignored. They didnt even care if i might even have the chiampion they would play. I hate Janan, i hate her passive playstyle, it's just not my playstyle(it was a while ago since then janna was changed). Next time i intend to just ignore and stay with my pick.
Erch0 (EUNE)
: AP tank Scaling is better than some mages ( LUX )
Then try going full AP gragas. It can work, but it has issues.
: > [{quoted}](name=Enjutsu,realm=EUNE,application-id=eZuvYsEr,discussion-id=30lRi8h8,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-10-16T05:09:42.372+0000) > > You don't play enough ranked, you just barely even started playing. Do some research before you start assuming things i started playing in season 4, started playing ranked pretty early into season 4 after reaching level 30 in season 4.
It's not about when you started ranked, but how many ranked games did you play. * Started early S4? 0 games * Season 5: looks like around maybe 40 games between 24 chimapions, with most played chiampion having only 10 games * Season 6: 6 games played, 6. you didnt even finish provisional games. * Season 7: around 50 games between 11 chiampions, with most played chiampion having 26 games. last season looks slightly better than others since your games were more focused on a smaller chiampion pool and on a single role, but the amount played is still small. Or should i have researched some other account you have? but it doesnt seem like you posted it's name. im gonna say it again, if this is all you have, then you only started playing ranked.
: Theres probably games where you get stomped on Nami, that's because your enemy does counter pick and you dont.
Are you suggesting that those who do care about counterpicking and pick according to theyr or enemy team never get stomped?
DeRoo (EUW)
: Yeah that's true. I max Q or E 2nd depending on what I'm against. I assume you do the same. Yeah I don't think the ardent rush is required anymore since it was changed again. It's perfectly fine to build champions slightly different. Like Sona with Ludens Echo with the heal mastery is sickening healing power. But the meta is these style of supports which are OP imo. I played a game the other day and 6 supports were banned lol
Not really, i max Q second all the time. Just for the sake of being able to throw out more Qs, which allows me to practice it more and improve better. I foind it irritating that people think ardent still has to be rushed
DeRoo (EUW)
: Well you run ardent on your support games which is meta. Thunderlords is good to win lane. So yes. You are playing a meta champion, stacking her W as usual and using a meta item. No point in disputing this bro. You're hardly playing her jungle.
Then it would be nice if teammates didnt complain as often as they do because i didnt get windspeakers blessing or that i didnt rush ardent(i hate rushing ardent). There's also the fact athene and ardent tend to be my only support items (not counting sightstone and gold income item) and i max Q second instead of E. Then there's also players daminding to play meta chiampions when they're open, like you can't win unless you play meta.
Rioter Comments
Torcidss (EUW)
: Kicked because not pressing locked when hero selected
It's not only to be sure that you're not afk, it's also to make chiampion select go by faster, so that you woudn waste other poeple time.
DeRoo (EUW)
: Well you are a Nami one trick with a 57% win rate. Nami is one of my most played supports with 40 something games and a 74% win rate. Nami is meta due to ardent. So you are climbing due to picking meta. Gj.
The fact that i play Nami is the only thing meta about it, the problem is that the way i play her is anything, but meta.
: Downvoting the topic makes you feel good or something? Whatever helps you be happy ;)
: Any advice for me? I'm stuck at Silver 2,3,4 with talon
Why talon? I checked your op.gg and talon is only your 3rd most played chiampion, first is morgana, then MF and only then it's talon. You even have a quite big amount of games on morgana and it looks like you've started playing talon only rather ecently with a rather small number of games.
: Knockout Stage | What's your predictions?
https://i.imgur.com/VlnK7sa.png you just gotta believe. Like alot. Probably in all deitys at the same time.
https://i.imgur.com/VlnK7sa.png Go FNC
CalmN (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=The Febos,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=UumeXEew,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2017-10-15T13:28:01.785+0000) > > > That said, the difference in DPS is very mininal. Besides, she's an Assassin, so she isn't supposed to be "in your face" dealing DPS. Her damage must be in line with other assassins (deal damage fast and flee) otherwise you couldn't call her an "assassin". > > Her new Q deals damage faster and has that long cooldown (which will be buffed in the next patch). > > That's one of the things wrong with old Eve. Assassins don't need, nor should they have, damage mitigation in their kits. Look at Rengar as the prime example of how such an innocent mechanic can be so frustrating at times. You also have Ekko and Fizz. Those champions are frustating especially because they have some sort of damage mitigation in their kits. > An assassin isn't supposed to be "immune" to damage and that R gave her that. Well but still its a nerf nonetheless, making it a spellshot, thus less reliable and giving lower numbers is just dumb. I agree that assasins should be like that, but look at eve ratios and base damage, you will get to know that 50 dmg per tick on Q is nowhere of assassin level. Same for 120 BASE dmg on E, she has no burst to be an assassin to begin with, the only reliable burst she has in her kit is buying litch bane and hextech, thats why she was so different from other assassins her utility kit was meant to set her up, all of her strength were in utility, items. > > Also, Assassins are not engagers. > At least this gave her some kind of initiation, now what can she do when she sees an opportunity or squishy target? run to him with 335 MS ? while he will most likely have the same MS or even more, so pretty much you can do nothing. Even if u get speed quints, speed boots, etc the window of reaction will be too great for anyone decent enough to let you near, from adc,apc and support standpoint. > This was her major flaw. I can understand why you would like this, but hybrid champions have always been a problem in League. Just look at what they did with Shaco recently. Hybrid champions, especially Assassins, shouldn't exist. > That was not her strength. That was her "weakness" which would leave her in a perpetual imbalanced stated (either too strong or overnerfed). > Most of her life as a champion she was always overnerfed, thus hybrid actually did help her to at least be somewhat okay in good hands. > At least we can agree on this. Her mana problems are less of an issue when she has Echoes, but until she can buy it she'll struggle to maintain her mana pool healthy. Her new HP passive is good when she has some AP - at level 10 with Echoes her passive kicks in when she's below 50% HP (it gets better the more AP she has). > > This one falls into the "lore category". She is, and always has been, some sort of vampiric creature (succubus we call it). This new version is a much better implementation of this idea. She was just as fine succubus before, now shes some kind of slut, i dont like this at all, but i guess for each their own, everyone have their own opinion, i think ahri filled that role way better and there was no need for another charmy killer. > > Unnecessary information; the typical authority fallacy. I dont' care if you are Bronze, Silver, Master, Challenger or the President. All I care about is facts. I can agree with some of the things you said as, you correctly assumed, I didn't play with/against Eve all that often. On the other hand, I can look at both kits and tell you what each of them fails to accomplish. It was just to say that i knew her old kit extremely well, and i had great win rates with her, even though most people thought shes really bad and overnerfed, but i learned to squeeze every bit of utility and other tricks she had and be really successful even if in lobby people were crying to leave and called me a troll, now she lost all of that utility and mini strengths and got NOTHING to compensate. > > In this case, her old R was terrible from a design standpoint. The hybrid idea is also pretty bad (as I've explained above). Her new W feels weak because, as you said, it's very hard to proc it and it doesn't do much of anything. However, I like the new Q and new R. > I have nothing to say about her old W as it wasn't a bad ability. > *** > Just give it some time to adjust and I'm sure you'll like this Evelynn even more. The thing with "New" evelynn is - still no decent burst, really low bases, ratios. She cant be an assassin with such a kit and no burst, now they even removed her W so she has no means to get to the target and do her assassin stuff. She have some "shitty" disengage on big cooldown but shes nowhere near any other assassin, even supports have better base damage on their abilities. Without utility this new eve is and will be shit. Shes like the old one relies on items for burst, not her bad bases and ratios. But she has nothing to help her use these items successfully now. Her new kit is even more odd and even harder to balance, she either needs her old W back, double range on her stealth E jump or some kind of other speed steroid, now she cant even get near anyone, it was hard enough with old one, with speed, slow and huge shield, now without all of this its pretty much impossible. Overall all her damage was nerfed, reliability nerfed, utility deleted, she got ult with great bases,ap ratios but needs targets to be 30% or less. In no way this eve is strong and i doubt she will, unless major buffs or kit change will be made. I prefer her old W to get back, jump just isnt for her in all of her releases she had some kind of speed steroid, she was a speedy killer and should be now shes just crawling like cockroach and expect people to stay still.
Just want to add something regarding the hybrid part about why Riot removed it: > Hybrid builds tend to work pretty well on fighter/bruiser type champions but can be very problematic on Assassins, which is one of the reasons we can't balance Live Evelynn as an Assassin and also why Akali tends to be more of a top lane sustained fighter than a balanced Assassin. The first problem being that the burst gunblade gives will lead to us having to nerf Evelynn's base kit until it is healthy with gunblade and then she will basically be heavily pushed towards building a gunblade first every game (like Akali.) Even if we take gunblade out of the equation the type of pattern hybrid builds lead to (stick to a target and chase them down) would likely lead us to nerfing Evelynn's burst damage at which point she would have a much harder time functioning as an Assassin. Her current kit would be much weaker as a diver/bruiser so that would leave her in a bad state that we don't think would really be great for Eve or Eve players in the long term. [source](https://www.reddit.com/r/EvelynnMains/comments/738r6h/evelynn_hybrid_context_ama/)
Wa5abi65 (EUW)
: >You must always be by your adc side or in front of him and excert pressure or straight up harassing enemy adc. I see this problem among many low elo supports and then they complain about adc. In most cases, yes...but the ADC should be behind you or next to you, you shouldn't be in front of him; I know it sounds like the same thing but it isn't. If your ADC is standing in the enemy minion wave AAing and taking a ton of minon aggro or overextended in lane when you don't have vision in the river (trinket on CD etc), then ping him back and stand where it is safe, even if that is behind him. It is surprisingly common in low elo that ADC's position badly.
I really don't want to expand on this too much, but whenever i play normals with low ranked players and end up being bot, i just see support playing really passive(just healing/shielding adc when necessary etc), leaving evrything to the adc, not really doing much themself. And i mean i did say to stay back if there's a reason for it.
: {{champion:136}} a God himself, what is more holy {{champion:203}} they too
i have just the perfect god killer: {{champion:17}} What's this godly being who has Suns orbiting gonna do once he walks over one of Teemo shrooms? Die, that's what's he's gonna do. If that's still not enough to kill this literal starforger, Teemo can blind him using his blowgun.
DeRoo (EUW)
: Silver to Diamond as ADC/Support main. I can carry on about 7 adcs. The rest I am at a gold level. Support is about counter picking or picking meta champions. Expand your champion pool and knowledge of what beats what. I'd recommend maining adc as a 2nd role so you can u understand ranged trading stance and zoning and what the support needs to do to "support" that for an adc.
> [{quoted}](name=DeRoo,realm=EUW,application-id=00edEA0o,discussion-id=JEqwQ69V,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-10-15T13:15:54.193+0000) > > Support is about counter picking or picking meta champions. Expand your champion pool and knowledge of what beats what. Oh cmon, it's not necessary, i never cared about the meta and im climbing just fine.
Rumkat (EUW)
: A question for support mains
Well i climbed from low silver not bronze, but since you asked. I played Anivia mid and Nami support, i admit at the time i was mid main, but whenever i pickedu up support it felt it was so much easier to climb than mid. I guess the only reason i kept playing mid too was probaly because of my pride. Don't stand behind ADC unless you suspect a gank, are low on health yourself or something else similar. You must always be by your adc side or in front of him and excert pressure or straight up harassing enemy adc. I see this problem among many low elo supports and then they complain about adc. Warding, it's a rather understimated skill, since it's not really mechanically difficult, but keeping up a good vision is really hard.
: xc im never getting to gold.
What you're playing is rather random, you go into a winstreak with master yi and then stop playing him and go onto a losing streak and then back to yi and another winstreak. Stop jumping around between random chiampions. Is Yi geting banned that much? Be more consistent. Decide on a fixed chiampion pool and stick with it.
: I actually think there's something wrong with the matchmaking... again.
You don't play enough ranked, you just barely even started playing.
mystYIcal (EUW)
: Ornn and Kayn absent in Worlds 2017
Ornn was disabled for worlds. https://blitzesports.com/lol/article/2058/ornn-will-not-playable-worlds
Arkadium (EUW)
: I don't want to be that kind of person but soloqueue feels like throwing a 50% coin
Well there are 2 sides in evry game, so one side has to lose, so 50% chance. It's rather hard to explain how to improve or what it means to improve. Basic thing would be to always try to look for things you could've done differently or better. Don't be lazy and don't autopilot, always give your evrything. If something happens evry game do something about it(for example: geting ganked at 3 min mark) But even before any of that you have a completly different problem, you don't have a main role or chiampions. To climb as jack of all trades you need a massive amount of games. This season you've played 69 different chiampions, previous season it was 89, don't do this kind of thing. Having a main role and chiampions will give consistency in how you play, which will make it easier to spot potential problems you have in a game. When you switch between roles and chiampion like that all the time, you barely have time to get used to any of them.
ExpStealer (EUNE)
: Well, then something else changes. Because it happens to me every time. Can't convince me this is a coincidence.
It's not, but it has to do more with you than with the system. It's mostly psychological. Your brain after a while sorts things out so you will just naturally perform better. Then there's also a possiblity that prior to making this break you probably were on a tilt with a horrible mindset, after the break it would be gone. It's possible that mmr decayes after a very long period of inactivity, but when people suggests breaks like that it's ussually like a week maximum, mmr decay woudn kick in that fast.
Sadolm (EUW)
: The amount of IP you get from runes is too low.
Not xPeke (EUW)
: I'm not disagreeing with what you said because you're correct. However, specifying that premades don't get extra honor is irrelevant. Premades DO honor eachother most of the time. This means that players that are not part of their premade don't get honored even though they ideally would have been honored if they were all Solo players. I think this is what the OP was talking about.
It's still small part of honor, you don't lose that much.
l MrD l (EUW)
: Thoughts on Eve so far?
That's kinda a natural assassin issue.
: i have a good winrate in bronze, i have been abusing something, but i don't know what
{{champion:19}} {{champion:23}} and maybe {{champion:12}}
Paladiyum (EUW)
: Nunu [Rework]
We're gonna have to wait post pre-season.
ExpStealer (EUNE)
: Sorry to kill your enthusiasm, but if you didn't play for long enough your MMR has reset, so you get normal teammates, who aren't the typical low ELO idiots. Play some more and you'll start getting them again.
No, it doesnt. MMR doesnt reset, it changes only after games. LP can decay due long inactivity, but as far as i know MMR remains the same.
Renold (EUNE)
: Kogmaw overpowered??
Well hypercarries are meta, that's pretty much it. I guess other hypercarries were a bit easier to use so players were slower to pick kog maw up.
: THey have, and they are dealt with in lesser time I'm saying, League is more of forgiving, coz of prospect, and the Need for money what you are saying is I have to wait 1 month to see someone get banned? until then, how many players of those kind, actually have ruined games in 1 Month?
Time it takes to ban someone is different from person to person. Some can get banned after a single game, for others it can take more. When it comes to chat toxicity system seems to be quite consistent, honor system also seems to help alot. Intentional feeding system is a bit inconsistent. I think evrything else is almost manual.
: New pbe signups
You're missunderstanding a bit how honor works. Here's few key things: * Most of your honor you get is passivly for just playing the game, you don't need to be most honorable player evry single game. * Premades honoring each don't get extra honor, they get it only the first time. * If you play a decent enough amount the only thing that can slow down your honor gain is toxicity.
: Evelynn rework Discussions
Here's why Eve won't be geting back her hybrid scalings: > Hybrid builds tend to work pretty well on fighter/bruiser type champions but can be very problematic on Assassins, which is one of the reasons we can't balance Live Evelynn as an Assassin and also why Akali tends to be more of a top lane sustained fighter than a balanced Assassin. The first problem being that the burst gunblade gives will lead to us having to nerf Evelynn's base kit until it is healthy with gunblade and then she will basically be heavily pushed towards building a gunblade first every game (like Akali.) Even if we take gunblade out of the equation the type of pattern hybrid builds lead to (stick to a target and chase them down) would likely lead us to nerfing Evelynn's burst damage at which point she would have a much harder time functioning as an Assassin. Her current kit would be much weaker as a diver/bruiser so that would leave her in a bad state that we don't think would really be great for Eve or Eve players in the long term. [source](https://www.reddit.com/r/EvelynnMains/comments/738r6h/evelynn_hybrid_context_ama/)
: Climbing
Play more, you're bronze since S3, but evry season you play like only 10 games on most played chiampion and one or few games on 10 other chiampions. The amount you play is way too small, it can barely considered playing ranked. You need to play ALOT more.
DeRoo (EUW)
: Why ardent on ashe? Anything can happen in low elo I guess :)
Stone born pact can still proc it.
: So whats the BS reason that you cannot fix Tristana?
You hsould probably ask that on NA boards and if you want to get an awnser i'd suggest to do it in a morerespectfull tone.
: Riot MMR for normal games needs total overhaul.
Quality normals matchmaking is pretty much impossible, because players can make any size and any composition groups. Then there's the fact that players can take normals to varying degrees of sriousness.
: It's really really risky. 1. 6300IP champ gives about 323 BE which results in 2100 IP 2. 4800 IP champ results in 293 BE which is about 1900 3. 3150 IP champ results in 263 BE which is about 1710 IP 4. 1350 IP champ results in 193 BE which is 1250 5. 450 IP champ results in 87 BE which is 565 IP Hoping that I remember all the BE figures properly, these are approximately right. Mystery champion shards (1700 IP in the shop) are like a big gamble if you get a 450 IP champ shard it will net you 565IP which costed you 1700. So it's an 1134 IP loss, where as if you hit a 6300IP champ, it results in a 400 IP gain. So it's really really risky, not worth because if you are unlucky, you lose way more.
Reroll low cost chiampions.
: Ranked is so broken its unreal
>** My mid lost, THEREFORE we do no deserve to be in same Elo as each other**, as this is a consistent pattern, where i go completely positive and still end up as a defeat. Why? you both face different oponents.
Fajerk (EUW)
: Those are 7.19 changes, hotfixed in the first day of 7.19
First hour and then again later the same week.
: that janna nerf xD
She's still 3rd support by winrate, but that coudl be because current meta is just really in her favor. Pre-season could shake evrything up.
: riot why the fk do you allow unranked players in already ranked games you idiots.
Well unranked players do have to eventualy start playing ranked. No one is born ranked.
Kubon2k (EUNE)
: I know , there are thousnds or even more games per hour , and yes I know this idea is impossible to do right now but im thinking about somthink like the cs overwatch system where like master tier players will be watching lower ranks games for like loot boxes or somethink . And they will decide who from team looses LP and who will not . And that ideas are somethink that should be upgraded to somethink that can take place , that idea should just get improved to the point when it will be possible to be applied in game .When I was writing this I was thinking about it as a skatch of somethink even more utopial
First issue: We used to have tribunal where players were allowed to judge other player behavior and get IP reward, the issue was that some players jsut spammed any kind of judgment just to get reward, which is why Riot eventually removed IP reward. So it's likely this can be done only voluntarily. Another issue is that, you're assuming that you played really well and did nothing wrong in the game that you've lost, but if you ask any high elo player they will see a ton of mistakes and plenty of room to improve. I don't think they would be as generous as you hope. Last issue is that high elo players are a very small minority. Plat players already are top 10%, i think diamond enters top 1% and master and challenger is like top 0. something. Thery coudn review a significant enough amount of games. This manual reviewing is too unrealistic.
Kubon2k (EUNE)
: Little change to SoloQ Ranking system
I don't get your main idea, are you sugesting to send your replay to someone else to evaluate it? Do you realise how many games per hour there are played?
: Yes, csgo has cheaters, and as it's cheaply available people make new acc, and cheat, but then valve issues ban, it's done in 24 hours, riot takes more than month to even investigate Dota 2 has russians, yea, offc, EUW, they play in EUW, their servers are made, but they want to play in EUW, if you play in other servers you will hardly find one in 50 games and pubg is just out for 3 months, it has quite alot of player base crossing total of csgo and dota 2, so there can be problems, hacking was there, devs dealt with that issue, so far, no probs, ppl play that game for chest drops and sell them for real money but then what you mentioned was about cheating and russians How are you comparing that to DC, feeders, toxic, trolls here? LoL has scripts, I tried on new account, and it works, idc about scripts, but those? they are issue Riot is just letting these people go, for money sake Dota is more like LoL, probably we can even find similar play style, and champs So in Dota, you leave 2 games(First forgiven only if you did not leave even once in a week or detected AFK), you end up with cancer queue of 5-10 LPQ(5 only if you got punished for first time), Also if you leave third time, you get 24 hour ban, so you no matter what, fix that problem, and then play 10 LPQ 200% sure, People cry on Boards of dota 2, to remove those LP, coz you cannot win those game, 10 LPQ means you are going to play 20-30 games in that "Prisoner's Island" but then that's not our problem, how do you feel when you are playing ranked and someone afk, leave or feeding in lane intentionally? dev.dota2.com check it this guy abused in LPQ, playing with premade bots http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=284599 got banned for 2 weeks, coz he used it once, others use for many LPQ games got 8 years ban. if you read this http://dev.dota2.com/forumdisplay.php?f=30 you will find only ppl complaining getting ban but here in player behaviour, I see hardly 2-3 posts a week in euw boards regarding getting banned I played dota 2 for 3 years and LoL for 4 years simultaneously csgo for 6 months, and overwatch for 1 year
> How are you comparing that to DC, feeders, toxic, trolls here? Are you suggesting other games don't have those same problems? Evryone is playing perfectly and evryone is happy with theyr teammates performance? People in league get banned in waves, evry few months you will see people coming to boards to complain about theyr bans for 3rd party program use.
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