: Idk.... can't you just admit defeat without blaming a team mate arbitrarily ? The Pantheon had a death at around 30 min (his 4th death btw, everyone else had 6 or more), which is the only death that could be rated as intentional. That was literally at the very end. Your team was consistently losing since minute 10! You only took 2 towers, they took almost everything. They got dragons and you didn't. So wtf do you want? I am not buying your story.
I'm not interested in continuing a conversation with someone who simply ignores my points to the argument and simply looks at numbers which are obviously misleading considering that they do not represent his behavior in the game or his decision making (which was after a certain point just ignoring the team, dancing in front of the enemies and shamelessly flaming at everyone). Have a nice day.
: Why did he do that though? And how do you have more deaths than the player that you accuse of intentional feeding?
I have no way of knowing why someone decides to purposefully lose a game out of nowhere. The number of deaths has little to do with whether or not they were intentional ones or not. Honestly, been playing since season 2, I have never trolled a game in my life (except the occasional off-meta picks like adc orianna or ahri in normals, where I once again do my best to win - and have actually won).
: So he was just QQing but he kept playing and your answer is to call him out like this: > 100% troll panth, please report Judging by the match history I would get the impression that your team just got outscaled and the Pantheon actually got the least deaths, he was keeping up very well in cs and exp. Wtf, he even was the only one with a somewhat respectable KDA. In fact I think Pantheon got mad at your team and you for throwing and then you responded with report calls and you made it look like he lost the game by trolling and being toxic. This is just league community in a nutshell. You found your scapegoat even though everyone had a part in losing this. You know just because he is raging a bit, doesn't mean that he is playing bad or losing on purpose and it certainly doesn't mean that you can make him responsible for everything. I suggest you look at your own performance and just let ragers rage, take their comments with a grain of salt. You seem to be more interested in getting players banned instead of actually playing the game.
Well that is the fun part, isn't it? That numbers in league of legends generally tend to lie. Perhaps you didn't read all of my initial description of the match but we were doing well, actually winning up until the point where he started suiciding because according to him "fk this elo". He didn't keep playing. He literally walked into the enemies and danced. People who ruin the experience for others are the biggest problem league is facing and correct me if I'm wrong but the penalty system is there to keep the whole issue at a low level. I'm interested in playing the game, and people who aren't are making it harder for me to enjoy playing. I hope I have clarified.
xiVoiix (EUW)
: Twice the time actually since you also need to play another game to get back to the same point as where you were (assuming you manage to win the second game)... The overall community is to be ashamed of. At least 50% of the games is won/lost before minute 10 since someone already gave up or is tilting too badly..
I agree with all the things you guys said. I honestly don't mind losing if both teams do their best to win or at least do decently. And I honestly don't take much enjoyment from winning a game where the enemy team is flaming/trolling/inting etc...
Cryptidian (EUNE)
: Being dragged down by an afk or troll seems more common than winning with a good team
: Ok, so what do you want? This forum is moderated and visited mostly by players like you and me. These "forum reports" have no validity in the eyes of Riot games, thus making them useless, and a waste of time/space. You have 3 ways of dealing with the issue. * Muting him and just playing (Let's not forget that the guy had similar stats to all his team, you included, in some categories he even beat the others - so you can't say he was a griefer. He performed - on paper - like you all did). * Reporting him using the post game inbuilt option, which is proven to be working in most cases (look at the daily forum threads of people getting banned due to abusive chat). * And lastly write a ticket, personally, to the riot support, where an official riot employee can review the case and issue a punishment if the said person broke any rules, according to the TOS. Just because you post this here, we won't start a witch-hunt against panth, and tbh, it won't influence our lives in any way... Riot can't chose it's community. There will always be first time offenders. Fun fact : every first time offender was innocent before the incident. Do you want riot to start banning innocent people ? based on what? The system works like this : 1You f@#k up 2You get reported 3You get punished, severity varying according to what you said/did. In the game, that you perform step 1 (the f@#king up), 4 other players will suffer because of it. Riot can't do anything, against him IN THAT game. Otherwise, he'd get banned mid-game, disconnect, and you'd lose instantly in a 4v5. #I'm not defending the supposedly toxic player, don't get me wrong. But some written down "chat lines" on a player forum, made out to be look like a report of some kind...is kinda MEH, you know? Please take my advice, next time you lose a ranked game, and wanna blow the steam off on forums, don't do it like this. Gotta keep the boards a frustration-free and fun place. Thanks.
I am by no means making this post (or the one before it) to start a witch hunt of any sort. I know that's against the rules, which is why I exclude the summoner name of the player/s involved. Though I can understand that people could in theory look someone up through game history etc, that is far from my intention. What I'm trying to do, is get Riot's attention concerning their way of deciding who gets a penalty and who doesn't because it does seem to me like... It's not really working! Riot may be unable to choose the community but it can certainly influence it. Otherwise, all games would have toxic communities and that really isn't the case. I'm obviously not saying that people fkn up once should get a penalty (although I consider it a possibility depending on how hard they fkd up). But if the toxicity is constant then it means that people clearly don't behave in a toxic manner only once. I guess it is kinda MEH as you say and well I'll surely keep your advice in mind, especially since you took the time to give me such a detailed answer, which I deeply appreciate by the way. I will also keep the ticket solution in mind if I come across any extremity. Thanks again! +1
DarkG0d (EUNE)
: I think its your fault for not muting him are you here to chat or play? just wondering
I did in fact mute the guy. That was when he proceeded to ctrl+4 mid-fight :) The chat exists for tactical communication and the occasional joke to keep the spirits high and that's how I tend to use it. Thanks for your time!
: What I don't get here.... you blame him for wasting your time but as I understand it he officially gave up which means you could have actually opened instead of having a toxic 30 min match, either way you lost, you just wasted more time doing so. Also trying to shame that guy in all chat and on the boards is just pathetic in my opinion and ironically even more waste of time. The best thing you can do is to get out of such a game asap and just report and immediatly play next. You just invested even more time but it will do nothing for you.
Thing is, the guy didn't give up. He was 4/0 and the game was actually balanced. No team was winning or losing. He just chose to lose. I get that opening is a way to not waste time but our issue wasn't that the game was unwinnable. We had just as much of a chance at winning as they did. Up until a certain point anyway... I generally only open when it's clear that we can't even get near the enemy team without getting one shotted.
Zefirez (EUW)
: > Riot. Come on... Is this what you want your game to be known for? Have you seen new Aatrox special interactions? xD
Actually, I haven't! I'll go take a look! Edit: Yup, brutal af. Some of them were quite funny. But I don't think it has to do much with how the community behaves to be honest. Besides these interactions are pretty much part of what riot has in mind when they say "competitive bsing" and this is honestly fine as far as I'm concerned.
Rioter Comments
Pro015 (EUNE)
: I cannot imagine how many dirty peoples there is...
I would consider someone dirty if they made a joke about Tristana's line saying "is that a rocket in your pocket?" or perhaps something about Illaoi's tentacles. Which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing in my opinion. What you just described is simply unfriendliness and general negativity. And uh, yeah, I agree, there's lots of it here. Sadly.
Rioter Comments
: For first: If you get banned you will start playing on another account with another email adress and buy your fav champs and skins. Second: inting is sometimes useful if you clearly lost early against a mid/late game comp its even more useful than playing 10 more minutes. For example in Korea its a usual habit to give up a game and open mid to save time (and money because they are playing from net cafès) Third: Flaming doesnt solve anything but makes you and the others tilted Fourth: I suggest to play without chat. Below diamond no one is good at shortcalling and everybody is toxic so chat ban would be a blessing for me (because i couldnt react to their flames but i could concentrate in the game better). Fifth: even your enemies will get inters/afk/silver 5 botlane in a medium-high gold ranked so nothing is lost. Cheer up mate and start thinking positively. Thx for reading.
Thanks for the reply mate and for taking the time. 1: yes but that means you would have to spend tons of time to get your account to level 30 and unlock the various champions then reach a decent elo again. That's like over 150 games, right? 2: I disagree with giving up entirely. There are games that cannot be won after a certain point, usually mostly because to picks and rough start. But that's rare. 3: yup, pretty much that :) 4: I think that disabling the chat is counter-productive. Yes, not many know how to make calls but the ones that do, manage to communicate well when you say something like "we should focus on objectives instead of fighting and push the lead with no risk involved". And when they do respond, it feels great.. :) 5: Thing is, it's not about winning. It's about playing a fair 5v5 match. Where everyone's trying. I honestly don't feel good when I win vs a team that has 4 players in it. Or when I see the enemy team swearing at each other in the end game screen and blaming each other. Thanks again for your time!
Strigina (EUNE)
: Where the hell are you playing? I don't remember the last time I met someone feeding _on purpose_ in any game.
What can I say man, maybe I'm unlucky? Idk. Check my comment above.
Smerk (EUW)
: It seems that you don't understand what intentional feeding really means. I checked your last 10 ranked games, only one player was questionable, but without actual replay it is impossible to say for sure. So out of 10 games we got 0.5 intentional feeders. Not even close to your claim
Out of op.gg in a top-down approach we've got: Game 1: irelia, int then afk. Game 2: Lulu refusing to use her W and R to save anyone except herself. essentially either a bought account or a troll. Game 3: Singed running off on his own in 1v3 situations and suiciding repeatedly. Pretty much a troll, wouldn't you agree? Game 4: Mundo gave like 4-5 early deaths to Riven if I remember correctly who one shotted all of us with ease. Then he proceeded to continuously provoke fights that we could not win. Game 5: enemy Kayn kept giving away free kills getting caught in the river when there wasn't even a scuttler nearby or any enemy camp that he could've stolen. Enemy lulu did pretty much nothing the entire game as well, kept suiciding all the time. Game 6: No trolls here if I remember well. Note that our jinx died a lot but she was doing her best to win it. Game 7: Garen pretty much a troll, running youmu's vs singed, kept chasing him and died in the process, never helped his team around objective control. Game 8: More info about this here: https://boards.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/G7nRtG4d-yet-another-example-of-the-communitys-lowest-of-the-lows Game 9: On our side, only Camille was trying to communicate and make team plays. Every time there was an engage that was a perfect setup for an immune yi or lucian to go in (I was taric) as soon as I ulted they'd flash out of the fight. Maybe it was just poor communication or a frustrating matchup, who knows.. Game 10: refusal to communicate when it came to objectives from our bot lane. Blitz flash Qing repeatedly (and missing), kai'sa same amount of damage as blitz. Meanwhile generally negative about our chances and continuously provoking fights on a fed enemy team. Then there's two remakes... Ok, let's skip those... The next one had a mf who flamed at me for "staying afk in the jungle" while clearly I have the highest kill participation and generally performed decently in that game. She also kept running into zyra. Like, literally... So yes as you said some of these aren't intentional feeders and you are right, my statement was wrong as what I was clearly thinking of were people who behaved in a negative, aggressive and rude way. People who didn't do what was best for their team and people who, let's face it, weren't displaying decision making fitting to their elo.
Smerk (EUW)
: You're heavily overestimating this problem, 10-15% means that there is one intentional feeder in every game, sometimes even two. Maybe I'm lucky, but I meet such players once or twice in 100 games
If that is true then the rumors surrounding eune must be true (considering that you're euw). I truthfully meet at least one in every single ranked game.
Zyzyx (EUW)
: > What is the real deal? The "deal" here is that flaming is simply easier to punish. This has nothing to do with Riots priorities or what is worse. If you flame, the evidence is right there, black on white in chat. If someone accuses you of flaming, there will be solid evidence for your guilt or innocence. Inting is different. The main difference between inting and having a bad game is the intent. And intention only exist in that players head. Without the ability to read someones mind, that is evidence you can not get. Sure, in some cases it's extremely obvious and it's easy to prove that it definitely was intentional. But in many cases it's not that clear. And since the focus for any good punishment system is to avoid false positive (punishing the innocent), that means that many inters get the benefit of doubt and get away with it. The alternative would be that every player would be at risk to get banned whenever he has a bad game. So that is the deal.
People have repeatedly said that they intentionally lost the game because they, and I quote, "don't give a fk". That is white on black as well my friend. Still not being dealt with.
Smerk (EUW)
: Intentional feeders get 14 days ban first time they are caught and permaban on second. The problem is that system isn't that great at actually identifying those players
The system isn't good at identifying those players because if WAS good at identifying those players it would instantly remove aproximately 10-15% of the playerbase. And that is a fact. In theory some of those players bring riot money, the truth is however that league is dying because of that percentage of the community.
Elsoahw (EUW)
: First leave after 8 seasons
While I think leaving is on its own wrong, I get where you're coming from. I've been playing since season 2 and I literally just decided to give up on ranked. I'll play the occasional normal or aram with friends but that's it. I'm done. I'm meeting trolls every single game for almost a month. I'm just done. Riot's clearly doing nothing about this since it's been getting progressively worse and worse over the course of two years. Until I hear the world going crazy over the fact that "Riot has banned a large amount of accounts for negatively impacting the gameplay for other players" I won't return to ranked. I'm just done.
: Riot, could you please elaborate on this.
I would imagine competitive BSing to be something in the area of "prepare for your demise Teemo :) "
: the typical smurf who doesn't care cause "whatever its not my main account" indeed there needs to be done someting about this but riot can't due to their own rules . {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
I don't know man... Why would someone bother creating a second account, reach level 30, go play ranked, reach a comparably decent elo, and then troll games off? I don't see any fun in that myself... Or any point... Or anything really! :) Also, if Riot can't do anything about it, it sounds like the game will only worsen.
Rioter Comments
: Winning a game in season 8 is 100% Luck
ADC is a role which greatly relies on people peeling for you, and basically carrying you through the early game. I think it's quite hard to "carry" from that role in solo queue unless you go duo with someone. My personal opinion.
Rioter Comments
Rumkatten (EUW)
: Ofc you can carry as support :)
I think the role doesn't really matter when it comes to carrying, what's important is to find a way to make people trust your decision making. That can be harder than it sounds. Then again I could be wrong :P
Rioter Comments
: How to make {{champion:142}} balanced? Redo 2 things from her kit. First redo her E, make it so that if she misses, that´s it, no safety mechanism or bullshit aoe if you miss (they can boost it travel speed by 50 to counter this), and lower the time for the slow from 2.2 to 1-1.5 sec, this will make her actually take some bloody skill to set up her skills since she will need to think before throwing shit all around the place and come on do you really need 4.2 sec CC? And for second change, make her W cant get the more powerful items like {{item:3146}} or {{item:3107}} until level 9 (same shit they did with {{champion:516}} passive), and that´s it congrats you made champion less annoying to play and she will still be useful as %%%% in late game if she survives early game. Plus even after all these changes she has ton of damage just from her q, so she won´t be that weak but will be unable to one shot stuff so easily.
Nah. The increased time they added for her E to pop the AOE already does that. The aoe that stays behind is actually good because it adds a bit of zoning to her kit. Boosting its travel speed would honestly be a buff imho anyway. It would make her more of a 1v1 champ than she already is. The W change you are mentioning could work but powerful spells is very situational. If you're versus a vladimir, gunblade wouldn't be useful at all for instance. Because you can't really burst the guy down anyway. TP would in that case be stronger to help you sustain and keep you at an advantage item-wise or to just make you roam and get started with the snowball. So it's impossible for the game to know which one's more important at which state of the game.
: i loved this champion more than any other in league ever, shes cute, funny, and her kit is just really fun to play the Q R change in the last patch changed how she works completely and i feel like i want my level 7 blue essence back, because shes just wrecked, completely different to play and the whole concept of her is destroyed, i have never been so sad about a league patch ever in all these years
Wow, you took it harder than I did. I can't say she's my favorite champion but I do really like her for sure. So I honestly get where you're coming from. She feels weird now.
: Zoe is a sociopath at best, she is in no way a Ivern
Oh no yeah yeah totally, I just get the same vibe myself hehe. Zoe's completely nuts, that's a fact :P
blissbomb (EUW)
: ***
Has she gained more hate lvls than even the devil himself? :P {{champion:17}}
: When a disney character one shots me, it literally tilts me. I can't handle it. But I like Ivern, he is a supportive walking tree. Nothing against him. https://youtu.be/hVLF0pa7taQ?t=8m17s guess I am not the only one who gets tilted by her, lol.
Well, I guess that's part of the point, isn't it? If it's frustrating to get one shotted by Zoe then obviously the champ's design is good as it's got exactly the effect it should have on your psychology. Idk that's just one point of view of course. :) Truth be told, he did misplay that Q of his... He used it towards her but not while he was close enough to auto. Not to mention she had already cast her Q so he could've predicted it (not saying he plays bad ofc, it was a tough one).
: Same. I hate literally everything about this champ. Looks dumb, sounds dumb, acts dumb and a stupid kit. Perma ban for me. No one likes zoe except zoe players.
Heh, guess it's a matter of taste but I actually like how she's designed around being a person who just likes to have fun and play around. I feel kind of the same vibe playing Ivern but on a slightly more serious and relaxed tone.
: > , MUCH easier to land Q, No risk Q, She will e over wall wait 2 secondsq (first cast) > r>q(second cast)> 100-0 same combo even more deadly. > Constant mobility, Heal, Attack speed buff, Vision, Gank awareness, M True nida had lots of things too but zoe has RNG w which drops redemption ,can take your flash from you use it etc.This is worse than the ap scaling heal?Not to mention that Zoe w drops are standar at the moment no matter how many points you put at that spell (so you max it last).While nida had to invest points in order to make her heal/as buff stronger. > The playstyle is completely different as well. No both share a similar style/ easy combo called "stay back land a spell and 100-0 or wipe 50% of his/her hp" . Different kits yes but same logic unless we speak for nida brusier. > The old Nidalee was reworked because her whole kit was based on staying away while dealing tons of damage with almost no risk. What risks zoe takes?Only way to die wtih her is by having bad position .{{champion:101}} at least (the first champion which comes into my mind with tons of damge ) has zero mobility ,he can't take rng actives from minions or SS from other champions ,also he has to reach close to land his cc. If you miss your e...you go back and try again.No punishment .You can cast from a safe distance THIS is what makes her like nida. As i pointed i don't know if she is broken/strong or weak ,fun or unfun but her style is like nida or at least this is how players try to play her imo.
-Her combo takes several seconds to setup, literally. Also the sleep is on delay, tons of stuff can happen in the meantime. -While RNG can be bad for a strategy game, I think it kind of suits Zoe since her whole kit is quite unreliable. Getting a TP to return to lane or roam is a way to help you snowball. Same for every other drop. Without those, she would be almost useless. Also the fact that she can take your flash simply means that you have to dodge her or avoid her in a different way, honestly walking away of her spells usually works for me. -But Nidalee could simply spam Q and still be useful to a team. Not to mention that she did that while having zero risk involved and could buff up the team's adc at the same time because she wasn't in enough danger not to. -Zoe's biggest risk is actually her R. No matter how or when you use it, the enemy knows exactly where they can hit you for the next 0.5 sec. And that's your starting position. You literally cannot dodge anything they throw there. Don't forget, her R is NOT an escape. It's a range extension. She's quite unlike Xerath in tons of ways as well, I agree. So many in fact that you shouldn't be comparing the two at all imho. -If you miss your E as Zoe, you can do some sustained damage with your autos and some safe range Qs. But that's all. The amount of utility any other midlaner can give in that time is double that even if they miss their basic spell. Which means that she gives the enemy team a huge opening to engage hard and wreck her team.
Gatzurion (EUNE)
: Thoughts on Zoe and her recent changes.
So I see people think that she's like the old Nidalee but... It's so far from true. The only similarity is that they require their Q to hit to actually do anything but other than that, nothing's the same. Literally nothing. Old Nidalee: Constant mobility, Heal, Attack speed buff, Vision, Gank awareness, MUCH easier to land Q, No risk Q, Longer range Q, More potential damage Q (yes it could easily deal over 1k with no risk involved), Zoe's Q has aoe, Zoe has a long range stun-sleep, The W, she has no escape, can't kite and deals less damage if she's forced to... Also Nidalee's Q was invisible in the fog of war for the largest period that I can remember. I mean... Nothing is the same. The playstyle is completely different as well. The old Nidalee was reworked because her whole kit was based on staying away while dealing tons of damage with almost no risk. They added risk to her and cut down her long range damage and she's a completely different champ now.
Rioter Comments
: great advice, thanks for taking the time to reply! appreciated :D
Glad to help mate, if you think this could benefit anyone else just send 'em over here so some other folk won't have to spend 1 hour or so to write it haha :P
Rëngár (EUW)
: you can try playing one champ only and one role only for a while it got me to platinum :D
While playing only one role/champ can make you obviously much better in that role/champ than any other role/champ, I have found that having a more spherical understanding of the game is much more helpful since this is actually a team game and you need to know what to expect from your team mates at a given time. For instance, you can't ask from someone to stay under turret and farm safely when they're 0/3 vs a zed who's 5/0 because zed will most likely kill them under turret anyway they won't be able to farm anyway. What you need to do is make calls that help that player who's doing poorly move away from the zed who's obviously drinking their blood while smiling :P Just food for thought ^_^
Rhosta (EUNE)
: Riot already commented on this hundreds of times. People who are frequently toxic are in minority (something like 0,5% of playerbase), most of toxicity comes from people who are having bad day or something and do this stuff in one or two games. It upsets other people and they are more likely to get toxic in next game. You can imagine the chain reaction. Current penalty system cannot work against this nor is targeted at this. Its designed to get rid of that 0,5%. Riot is trying to prevent this by promoting teamplay (flex queue and recently clash tournaments), so people find and play more with others they like instead of strangers. Also there were other things done, like honor system and new champion pick system (the old one was causing a lot of toxicity, so this is a big improvement).
I agree on all of those, Rhosta, but from your experience does it seem to be enough? There seems to be at least one person who behaves terribly in every single game. Are you saying that 1/10 people are having a bad day? Cause that's just... sad :( Surely, we can't just stop playing with pick-up-groups to avoid flame by just playing with the same people and muting everyone else again and again as this removes so much from the potentially positive social side of any online game. I'd love to see a system that promotes friendly team-play in a very direct way...
: How do I improve?????
###First of all keep in mind that League isn't the easiest game around. So don't bash yourself for not learning too fast. Things you should focus on: Objectives win games. yup that's pretty much it. Sure, getting overfed and stomping the enemy team can also win games but that doesn't happen normally (and that's good). I spent like over an hour on this so I hope it helps! So, objectives include but aren't limited to: -Farm: it's basically gold=items and xp=stats+higher lvl abilities. And with pretty much no risk involved. -Denying farm: you obviously don't want your opponents to have the bonuses mentioned above, right? Denying can be one of the most complex things in league. Whenever the enemy goes in for a last hit, deal some dmg to them, eventually they'll be low enough to not be able to farm and they'll have to go b. Be careful though since if you stay in there for more than one hit or so, you will take minion dmg and the poke will be ineffective. -Freezing: Stop the advance of your minions towards the enemy's side. Literally last hitting (hitting while the minion auto that would have killed a minion is mid-flight) is basically what freezing means. It basically means that you control where the lane (the line that divides your minions and the enemy's) will be, and that can mean a lot when it comes to side ganks, rear ganks, safe/non-safe farming, xp gains, and travel distance (which is the distance someone has to travel to reach safety in case something goes wrong - usually aka the turret). -Knowing where the enemy jungler is: this will make it easier for you to know when to do what. Sometimes, you may even want to stop farming cause it may mean that they enemy will kill you because of their jungler. So it's better to lose 5 creeps than die. -Warding (properly): this means the exact center of tribush, the exact corner of most bushes to get maximum vision out of them (or around corners). It can make a huge difference. -Drake (especially early on): Yes, even drakes that give you regen are important. Not only infernal is as many think. If you can outsustain a team on a siege with lots of poke you have possibly won the fight. -Turrets (first turret especially): they give you map control. You will be able to setup more kills for your team as the enemies won't have the safety of their turret. you also get global gold for your team and some advantages that have to do with minion wave control. -Getting rift herald and using it to get a turret: not much to explain here, rift herald can be really useful when it comes to taking a lone turret fast. -INHIBITORS: they force the enemy team to keep defense on their focus. That means you can deny them jungle camps, you can freeze minion waves even more effectively, you can take drakes, baron, create ganks when people try to ward their own jungle and loads more. -Buff jungle camps: they give you bonuses that can make you much more effective. Red buff is so strong on adc since it gives you better chasing and kiting potential (you can look those up with a quick search if you don't know what they mean). At the same time blue buff means you can stay in lane for much longer as a mage (or generally most mid-laners). Naturally the usage of these buffs isn't limited to these examples. ### As an ADC (I'm going to get into quite a lot of detail so bear with me): -Learn to cancel the attack animation: This is probably important on every single champion in this game in any role you play but in adc it's even more important. #Cancelling the attack animation means the following: Attacks include these keypoints in time (at least this is how I sense them): -Attack animation start, -attack starts happening, - (if ranged) attack is thrown, -(if ranged) attack is flying, - animation ends, -attack lands. The last two don't happen in this order necessarily. Starting the animation doesn't mean you will attack. You can move and nothing will happen. You'll just move. Starting the attack doesn't mean you have actually attacked. I have seen auto attacks flying but when I move they get cancelled. I think this happens only in a few ranged champions but that's what I've seen. This is usually around at the half-time of the attack animation. attack being thrown means it will surely land on the enemy. Even if you're melee and he's flashed away 1/10 of a second too late. attack is flying means you can see it travel. after the attack has happened, before it's even thrown, you can move your champion and since the attack has already happened, the animation stops and you just move. This means that you don't need to wait for an animation to end, you can use this time to move more effectively. This means, don't just right click an enemy and let your champion automatically follow him because that means the enemy has gone out of range and you have lost time that you could've been attacking in moving. So the correct way to dps in team fights is move right after you start each attack to a spot that will be more beneficial to you on your next attack than standing still (there are cases where standing still can be best - and it can sometimes mean more dps if you have very high attack speed). -you will want to have pretty much the most farm in your team. That's because you usually have few ways of securing kills early on but at the same time you're supposed to be able to usually deal the highest amount of stable dps in teamfights, which is the best way to make sure enemies die. Some tips on adc farm: -Watch the hp bars and the auto attacks from the caster minions on your side towards the enemy minions. Remember, caster minions deal more dmg. Also they are worth the least gold and have the least hp. All minions are in fact equally important though since they're all gold that usually doesn't require you to interact with the enemy. So make sure you get as many of those as possible. The gold may seem like not much compared to kills, but it really adds up to a lot more than kills over time. -Don't get pushed into your turret unless your support seems to know how to help you last hit. (I'll get into more detail on that later). -It's ok to use some mana to get creeps, try to set them up so you won't have to though, as mana may save your life later or make your enemy's life worse. -Don't get crit early on, it can mess up the hp bars of minions and it will make your life miserable when you start losing creeps because of unlucky crits that happen at the wrong time. Get some early AD and attack speed (preferably one of both on your first back) to get you going. -Attack speed helps in situations where you have two creeps with similar amounts of hp that seem to intend to die at pretty much the same time. -You can control the timing of minions' death to make it easier to kill them one by one by hitting one minion twice and another minion once each time the lane resets (minions going in the middle of the lane at the same time from both teams). Some tips on adc fighting: -In most scenarios, the adc's role in teamfights is to focus the highest priority enemy that can be safely damaged. That isn't the case when a zed is right on your face, you must either kill that guy or escape before you get nuked. Which leads me to: -Beware: you are squishy! You can literally die in one burst from like half the roles in the game. At least if that's what they're itemizing for. -Position: When chasing, go slightly into your opponent to give you more time to do one extra auto if you have to stop moving for whatever reason. When kiting, always make sure that the path you've chosen is actually a safe one. - Dodging abilities isn't always the best option in late game: Sometimes you can just dps people head-on. -Dodging abilities will however be extremely important. -Buy QSS, (and use it effectively by expecting enemy cc). Don't always buy it of course. but if they have a leona. Or anything of that sort. And they seem to really like you. or even if they don't like you. a well timed QSS can win a fight for sure. Practice using it with a friend before you go in-game with it otherwise you won't make much use of it fast enough. -Help your support with vision when they need it. -Go to drake calls asap, that one or two creeps in lane aren't as important as drake and going asap could mean the difference between getting drake and leaving safely or getting 3 people in your team killed. this is a REALLY IMPORTANT tip to be honest. -You will eventually need lifesteal but usually you shouldn't really stack too much of it early on cause spending gold on it will make you fall behind damage-wise. ### As a support: Rule number 1: You are not a mage, or a carry. You have other people for that. Unless if you don't have other people for that, in which case you may be up to something not so meta-like which is always fun and nice, but make sure you're doing it with a team that agrees with you on it, otherwise it will never work out. (yes I'm talking to you AP lux "supp" with mejai's 1st item) -Always protect your carries. This....... UNLESS, it means that you're just getting killed for someone who's already going to die anyway. It can be hard to know when someone has no chance of escaping but if you keep the enemies' ults and summoner spells in check as well as your own team's you should be able to make that call. Being the nice guy doesn't really help that much when you give two kills instead of one for no reason. -Ward. Before teamfights, during teamfights, after teamfights, before potential teamfights, around objectives, before going for objectives, after having taken objectives... the list goes on. Vision is probably the number one reason people get ganked. If you know where your enemy is, you can move on to making further decisions about your strategy. And by using wards effectively you're essentially helping everyone in your team even if it doesn't look like it. Ward effectively, and don't waste wards cause if you run out at the wrong moment some enemy might escape or some friend may get killed. -Help your adc last hit by setting up minions' hp. -help your adc push fast so they can go B. -Some of the stuff I said about adc stand on supp as well! -Make calls - ping. You don't farm so you see more!
Rioter Comments
Gatzurion (EUNE)
: Riot's decision making and the course of League of Legends
As of 6.9 Riot has adressed more than half of the issues I mentioned in this post. On a first look the changes seem very pleasing. Not only have issues been fixed, many mechanics have been brought up to a new level, making things much more complicated to the point where it gives the game a very fresh new perspective that still feels intuitive. Very very happy about them changes! Instead of working up quick little fixes that could potentially improve the situation you made me wanna test things out in a way I haven't in a while, so thanks for that! WP Riot ;)
Gatzurion (EUNE)
: Riot's decision making and the course of League of Legends
Bump! Cause this seems to be getting slightly less attention than I was hoping for :) Anyone who'd like to discuss any of these points (politely) is more than welcome!
Serika Zero (EUNE)
: on the thunderlord subject: >I frankly think that only thunderlord's has an actual issue at the moment... Compare it to deathfire touch and just laugh at how stronger it is. Not only does it have a huge base damage, it even scales well enough to justify abusing it on every single role. Yes, every role. Tanks use it, Assassins use it, Most mages use it, Supports use it, heck, even marksmen for the early game poke potential or to get an extra kill early on. Out of the entire gold Elo, the most Thunderlords I've seen (got from g5 to p5 in 2 weeks in late febraury early march) in 1 game were like 5. Due to most of us playing assassins or burst junglers. Feel free to spectate any gold, plat, dia, master, challanger or lcs games. Its rare for a game to have more than 4 thunderlords users. This means other masteries are good for other champions/roles. on the Sheen subject >The fact that Sheen's AP part has been removed seems to point in a direction that helps people who don't scale with AP. However, there's tons of champions who had been using it as a core item to help them poke, increase burst or even help them push lanes a bit faster. Now, since it has no AP it actually sometimes sets people back when they buy it, because the enemy would spend almost the same amount of gold to get a hard AP or AD item and give them a clear advantage. You call it bad for AP users on the part that you think the AP users don't get much out of it when buying. When in fact they get. The only reason someone like Kayle ever gets Sheen and eventually lich bane is for CDR. Also, sheen by itself gives those AP champions some AD damage. Meaning if the enemy itemized magic resis, you will have some damage that goes past that. Also, since its not a final item. The fact that is scales with AP or not is meaningless. Next on the subject of Atma, Titanic and so on. If you play for as long as you claim to have. You should have noticed by not that riot forces metas to shift. In order to cause change and keep player interest into the game Also, that riot loves to manipulate their playerbase by releasing false statements. Atma wasn't removed because it was "unhealthy". It was simply removed because they hard nerfed it and wanted a meta shift. Look, I understand, you are an ex-wow player. As by rule 33. We will never get along. Its not your fault, nor is it mine, that we will never see eye to eye. So, that's why, I'll take my leave now.
Have to admit I disagree with pretty much everything you said... When thunderlord's is supposed to be used by assassins and you have at least 4 as you claim that means there's aproximately 2 assassins in each team. Which is, let's face it, almost never the case. I do think that it's usually around 5-6 thunderlord's in each game but I could be wrong so let's move past that... You say that sheen is interesting since it gives you some extra physical dmg compared to magic dmg and that's useful if people build MR. But tanks don't really build defenses early on, and neither do you buy a sheen early on (for champions that aren't hybrid or have some sort of auto atk enhancement - mages). In the late game, they usually already have enough armor to make up for the fact that you have a sheen and make its dmg negligible. And if you upgrade it to lich bane, well, that's magic damage again so you didn't gain the variety of dmg that you claimed. Also Kayle picks it up for the extra burst mostly. While the cdr is useful and nice, it's the burst that makes her more of a threat. Popping an E with sheen/lich bane and doing one auto is always going to be important for kayle to have some way to remove squishies from the fight. Not as much cdr. Besides, Kayle is a hybrid auto - attacker and no longer what you'd call an "AP champion". Atma's Impaler was never nerfed enough. It gave passive gold, and around 50-60 AD plus armor plus crit on a late game tank for a very low cost. I obviously have repeatedly seen how Riot keeps switching the gameplay around to keep players attached and all, and I'm fine with that since it makes you think what is best in each case and use that to win. But messing with the logical base of the game to do that is something that should be frowned upon, if not by Riot, at least by the playerbase. As for that last part, nicely written but I didn't really get what your point is...
Serika Zero (EUNE)
: Start with masteries, where you strongly believe only thunderlord is good. Moving to items where you called sheen bad for aps. Most aps love cdr. Sheen gives cdr. Feel free to add the two of them together. Can't do more since I'm on phone. Look, you got a few things right. Like tank yi being bad for the game. But most of the things you argue balance with are highly biased. That's why. Please study the game for a while before making balance suggestions. That's all.
I never said only thunderlord's is good, I'm saying it too good on champions that it shouldn't be good on. I didn't call sheen bad for AP champions, I simply stated that it felt like it worked better when it still had AP in it. I'm fine with it having cdr as mentioned above as it fits the profile. Tank yi is not bad for the game, the fact that tank yi can deal massive amounts of damage while taking none is what's bad for the game. Same for xin or shyvana or anyone else who abuses the current items. I honestly don't consider my opinions biased and have been playing the game long enough to know its mechanics deeply enough to be able to produce an opinion. Also I've always been interested in theorycrafting (as most former WoW players are) and really believe I indeed have studied the game enough to see there's a problem. They removed Atma's impaler because it was an item that suited tanks but gives damage. And then added Titanic Hydra and Dead Man's Plate?! Not sure if the team/teams who worked on those include the same people but even if they didn't, what were they thinking? And why were they thinking it? The core behind any game of this sort is: Tanks: that mitigate damage and offer crowd control or buffs to the team. Bruisers/Fighters: who can stay in a fight long enough if they position well enough to deal constant damage and whose damage goes up if they do that well over time. They also have ways to stick to targets but can be brought down by marksmen. Assassins: They move fast, are incredibly squishy but can deal a huge amount of burst damage every few seconds. Their role is to finish off the wounded or remove a high threat enemy. They need perfect timing for that to work. Supports/Healers/Buffers: They Protect, Create opportunities for plays, they bait the enemies, they create peel for the team's marksman, they do a lot of decision making and they often initiate fights. Mages: They control the course of a fight by protecting team members, zoning enemies, dealing considerable AOE damage from a distance, and securing objectives by doing all the above. They do all that from a distance but are very squishy. Marksmen: Constant dps from a decent distance. They get a gapcloser or a peeling assistance mechanic to help them continue dealing damage. They normally have the most damage overall in a fight but they require a lot of help from team mates to be able to position properly to deal their damage without getting destroyed. Now suddenly Riot introduces Juggernauts. Who have aspects from 3 of the roles above. They take tons of damage. They deal tons of damage in time. But they also have tons of burst with the right build. And not only do they make champions of this kind but they also cater to them by giving them items that work amazingly well with the whole idea! Surely Juggernauts aren't just as strong as they were when they first came out which is good, but that doesn't mean we should get this every 5-6 months on a different type of playstyle. We need more balanced. Even deathfire grasp or AP yi were fine compared to some of this stuff... (well ok maybe not ap yi :P )
: > [{quoted}](name=Gatzurion,realm=EUNE,application-id=ln3nNJrX,discussion-id=ydjIpR5V,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-03-17T03:09:33.391+0000) > >looks fine and doesn't really bug out that much. > its sad that our standards as gamers have been lowered to the point where we are ok with games that look "fine" and dont "bug out that much". this game before internet patch distribution would of been a giant flop. just like most other games these days should be.
Looks fine was basically mentioned as this game needs to target people who are hardcore gamers and people who aren't and won't have gaming computers. So considering that, its art style is good enough for the low graphics cost it has and I'm fine with it myself. I think it looks fine for the hardware needed to run it smoothly. But I do agree on your point for the better part of today's games. Luckily there are exceptions, but they don't get enough attention...
Serika Zero (EUNE)
: You got so many things wrong, its not even funny. I highly suggest you to understand the game before making balance suggestions.
: Guys, I believe RIOT staff are themselves noticing the balance changes and continuously in the process of fixing them till they get it right, as they play this game too. In the PBE they have been addressing these issues and maybe I could suggest a website where you can suggest stuff as it arises. Check out the website:- http://www.newsoflegends.com/ The creator puts them up there as the PBE receives them, where you can make suggestions as u can see others do. Some of the things u've mentioned are already being taken care of, with the last 2 PBE updates trying to nerf them. Take a look and see if they are at least trying to head in the right direction.
Thanks for the link mate, I found this post: http://www.newsoflegends.com/index.php/wip-pbe-1003-57138/ Apparently they seem to intend to remove the base attack damage scaling of Yi's E so that Sterak's doesn't work so well with it. Not a bad idea but I still think they'd have to work on Steraks because he's not the only champion where it's too good on... Tiamat and Hydra do seem to be taking a turn towards the right direction so that's a *yey* from me :P
Enjutsu (EUNE)
: Ok, so here goes > So... I just met another Yi in a ranked game who's obviously abusing guinsoo's so after spending the past 3 months or so trying to understand where Riot is headed I'm starting to give up all hope about this game. Now naturally I'm not saying Yi has a problem. Yi is geting nerfs next patch > So, first you give scuttlers 5 stacks for junglers to see if that will create more fights (to make the game look more fun to people watching). You also add another miniboss that gives a buff so that people will fight over it (to make the game look more fun...) So at first i assumed you were talking about Rift Herald but just said wrong name, but then you continue about added another miniboss, which IS the Rift Herald, Soo here are the problems: scuttlers give only 2 stacks and Herald was nerfed to give 2 stacks too. The Reason it was introduced was to give another objective on another side of the map because previous season tp TOP became a must pick and bot had huge attention from other lanes, making it a nightmare to play bot. > You also start creating champions with borderline OP skills that look extraordinary but who lack synergy with most current meta team setups and have next to no real value when it comes to objective control (see jhin - again, cause 1.5k crits look cool - which I'm fine with but the champ lacks compared to others). Latest released champions came out rather balanced > You increase several items' costs and giving some extra changes around the place to make up for the increased cost they also increased passive gold gain too. > But you don't increase gold gained from kills. The big - huge problem with that is that you're actually destroying comparably slow moving mages. You're practically removing them from the game. Because they can't really roam safely since vision is much more intense nowadays, they can't easily decide to leave the lane because they will probably lose around 2 waves of creeps (aproxx one kill worth of gold) and kills don't actually get you any more gold than farming so... Mages have to constantly farm. Which they can't because.. well.. Thunderlord's exists... But i'll get into that later... Ok, first, higher gold for kills would benefit assassins more because they're much better at roaming, second if you don't wanna lose so many creeps while roaming you need to prepare wave before roaming and i don't get how the existance of thunderlords prevents mages from farming. > *Sheen (and all its products): The fact that Sheen's AP part has been removed seems to point in a direction that helps people who don't scale with AP. However, there's tons of champions who had been using it as a core item to help them poke, increase burst or even help them push lanes a bit faster. Now, since it has no AP it actually sometimes sets people back when they buy it, because the enemy would spend almost the same amount of gold to get a hard AP or AD item and give them a clear advantage. Also, there are cases (like Ezreal or Jax) who liked having trinity (and they still can) but the AP part of it is gone, meaning they somewhat lack in what it used to give them. I do however like the cdr part in it so I find it fair to keep that. Trinity is the most expensive item in the game anyway so it seems fair to have pretty much a bit of everything. There wasnt that many AP stacking champions who used that item, Cdr fits items theme much better, it procs after evry spell used so having those spells on lower cd means that you can use sheen more often and the fact that now it doesnt have AP it's actually better for much more champions. Neither jax nor EZ bought the item for AP, it was just a nice tiny bonus. > *Titanic Hydra: geting nerfed next patch > *Lich Bane: I'd say reduce the base attack damage scaling and increase the AP scaling. That way it's not too good for Kassadin and a bit better for mages who like to use auto attacks (lady of luminosity anyone?). Again, tiny changes. AP scaling was nerfed because assassins were abusing it too well (Fizz is a prime example). > *Banshee's Veil: Relate its cooldown on how much hp the champion wearing it has. The less hp, the lower the cooldown. Not too hard to code and would work like a charm. again this was nerfed because it was up way too often. *Dead Man's Plate: No wonder almost every tank uses this item. Not anymore, other armor/health options became more popular > *Banner of Command: 100% base hp regen and 60 AP don't seem to really work together very well, since magelike supports usually have low hp regen base values compared to tankier ones and tankier ones don't usually need so much AP to scale well. Play with the numbers a bit, or make the item a bit more fun to use, so that we get to see it more. Ap makes it better on mage supports and not being so good at using the health regen is very small cost and the fun part of this item is the fact that you can make cannon minnion stronger and let it splitpust by itself. > *Athene's unholy grail: Often you need to buy this item to survive your lane as a mid mage. But when you do buy it as a first item, you start feeling a huge lack of damage. Now surely that's meant to happen, but don't you think it happens a bit more than intended? +10 AP should make it fine. Right now all the mage mana options work very nicely together and are reasons to pick one over the other and small buff like that could break that balance, nor does athene need it. You buy athene either as a bit more defensive option or for higher mana regen. +10AP could drive morelo away. > *Ohmwrecker: make the active last for 5 seconds and it should become more efficient. The problem with ohmwrecker is that it works in a rather speciffic situation and once behind it loses it's value, Riot intends to try something out with it but if it won't work they will remove it. > I frankly think that only thunderlord's has an actual issue at the moment... Compare it to deathfire touch and just laugh at how stronger it is. Not only does it have a huge base damage, it even scales well enough to justify abusing it on every single role. Yes, every role. Tanks use it, Assassins use it, Most mages use it, Supports use it, heck, even marksmen for the early game poke potential or to get an extra kill early on. I had to check the date of this thread to make sure im not necroing something, but we're way past the point where evryone gets it, you're few monthes too late with this. The only who are left and are supposed to use it are mages, assassins and supports (others can take it for early levels). DFT scales better into late game, for some mages it's a better option > But when tanks come at you with: Dead man's plate, titanic hydra, and thunderlord's, havent seen that combination in a while, nor do i think what you're facing is actually a tank. > Since i mentioned how underpowered it is compared to thunderlord's I should mention that I think deathfire touch is a fine mastery but perhaps it could get a 5% buff on ap scaling too. Most Ap champions who use it are mages and well mages usually deal aoe damage which means it won't last long. So the scaling on them isn't that amazing. And sure it does get better over time but health regeneration is massive right now so a small dot like this one wouldn't make a big difference if it's increased by a 5% ap scale, it'd just make it more valuable compared to thunderlord's that just deletes people. base health regen is massive enough only if you have Warmongs and if i had to buff something about DFT i would rather go for it's base value not scaling it's already good enough. > Matchmaking: The current matchmaking system on solo queue is a disgrace. Silver playing with platinum is simply not fun at all. For neither side. You're talking about normals not soloq, soloq and normals have separate MMR I skipped some points because they're not my area of expertice, what you were suggesting was too small to care or i kinda agreed.
First of all, thanks a ton for taking the time! I think Yi on his own is not actually broken, some of the itemization combinations used on them are overpowered, creating this mess. A nerf on Yi is not what we need in my opinion. Scuttlers started out at 5 stacks then they reduced them to 2. My whole point behind this is that while nice little additions, they seem to mess up with the balance of positions and roles so much that they may need rivisiting. I do agree however on removing some threat from bot lane and an objective around top is not a bad idea. My example about Jhin is perhaps a little too specific but I liked the champion overall (amazing voiceover and animations) so he was the first thing that came to mind. But there's core problems around his creation. Tanky or sustaining champions are strong right now and Jhin's 4 attacks plus however many skills you can throw at them are not enough to get rid of them. While I do get he simply shouldn't be picked when facing many tanks, there should be "some" way in which he could do decent damage on them apart from having an E that deals magic damage but is easy to avoid if paying attention. In addition to that, the guy takes too long to remove a pink ward and that is a very important feature on marksmen (at least in my opinion) "extra changes around the place to make up for the increased cost" included global gold generation as time goes by. Perhaps I should've mentioned that. The whole point around item costs is that champions who can't push a lane easily, and move comparably slowly have very very little chance of making a roaming session worthwhile, which shouldn't be the case in a game that focuses on variety of gameplay. However you may have a point about it giving even more power to assassins so perhaps another way to fix this could be found. Trinity's ap tiny bonus was in fact exactly that, a tiny bonus. But it did help. And having that tiny ap did in fact matter on the long run. I think it suited the item to still have it even with cdr implemented in it as well. Lich bane: I know the AP scaling was reduced because of that but by reducing the base attack damage % of the item and slightly increasing its AP scaling will make it useful in a larger variety of situations without giving too much strength to champions who simply have a high base attack damage. It'll become an option for more champions and I think that's a good thing. Even assassin's don't really use it these days with 1-2 exceptions. Banshee's: I know it did happen too often, but keeping the "often" on marksmen (who are generally squishy and need it the most) and removing the "often" from tanks (who can take a bit of poke before engaging without too much trouble - and should also be more careful since they need to soak up damage when it matters) would benefit the mechanic of the item. Dead Man's Plate: I still see the item usually twice in every game. It makes immobile champions run (which is nice) so people don't underestimate that a lot. Banner of Command: I'm not exactly sure what I'd propose for this one on specific but I just feel like the fact that its stats don't really work together seems to not what Riot usually goes for on League's items. Athene's: Sure +10 AP would make the item a more worthwhile choice. Especially when you think of how behind you feel damage-wise you buy it on mid to survive but then you can't burst people up because you don't have luden's. But my point is that if you compare it to Morellonomicon for example: Morellonomicon is cheaper, has more AP and has a healing reduction debuff that people tend to ignore (even though it's usually the 1st reason to actually do get a morellonomicon). Which is why I think Athene's needs a slight buff. Ohmwrecker: hopefully they'll think of something interesting :) Thunderlord's does indeed get stronger for the people who should be using it as the game goes by, but its flat stats part is what is the problem. Tanks should never have the chance to be able to deal that much damage. And just for the record, here's an example build that I see all too often: Dead man's, Titanic Hydra, Banshee's, Randuin's, Spirit Visage, Merc's boots. + thunderlord's. Naturally thunderlord's does feel like it slows down as the game goes by but around mid-game those guys have like 3 items and they honestly do 100-0 a marksman. Because a marksman might not even have gotten lifesteal by then, let alone defenses. Increasing dft's base value would give more power to poking supports than they need. AP scaling slight buff, I'm sticking to that :) Pretty sure that silver with platinum thing happened to me on solo queue, and yeah I know the mmr is separated. There were some recent changes when it came to grouping people up since now you can go to solo queue with as many people as you like so... Perhaps that's why it happens... A gold with high mmr goes premade with a silver but gets matched up with a low platinum. Who happens to be much better than a silver. This shouldn't be happening in my opinion. Thanks again for taking the time, much appreciated!
Sffc (EUW)
: The thing is: People complain about Thunderlord's being Overpowered. It's not. The idea behind keystone masteries is to have essentially another ability. Something that causes an IMPACT. Thunderlord's is excelent to do that. The problem is, other keystones aren't. I'm fairly certain that + 2 HP on my Orianna shield is going to really save me if I get dived pre-6, Xin is just disgusting. Almost as much as Yi, except you can actually outplay Yi on a 1v1. It's just too much damage on top of defense (like Yi), except with surprisingly good CC for duels. He's pretty much what Warwick was early on Season 5
Well considering that the shield buffing one is supposed to be of more use in the late game and more commonly by supports I find it OK that it doesn't make a real difference in 1v1 outplay potential. As for thunderlord's I'm just against it working so well even on tanks which is why I proposed a buff on its stats scaling. At the moment it seems to also make an impact on the wrong champions...
Enjutsu (EUNE)
: God yoiu complain alot, if you don't like all those complicated items go play HOTS, you won't even need to worry about csing. And some early assumptions and just facts are plain wrong.
Also I should add that you (or anyone) are very welcome to discuss any of the points I've made above and obviously feel free to prove me wrong on anything you disagree with.. :)
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