: Don't you think that AP-tanks are meant to be built in two different ways? So that you can build either AP or tankiness. And maybe they were not meant to play as full tank after all?.. Because there's Sion out there (who scales with HP), and Leona (who scales with resists), and somebody else I think. Also there're champions like Jax, Tristana, Shaco, who can build either AD path or AP path (but not together). And that is not a problem, is it? Are you sure that you located the problem correctly?
I think 3 or 4 different ways are better than 2. Full tank or full AP can be good, but I'd like to have some options in between that wouldn't feel like a trollbuild. I don't want this new item to be 100% must have on those champions, just a middleground option.
: Thing is that building just tanky is all they need to win an all in. In order for those items to exist in the first place all of the mentioned tanks would need to get nerfed in their base dmg stats. how do these {{item:3285}} {{item:3089}} {{item:3100}} scale with eachother? The only AP/AD item that actually scales would be {{item:3003}} {{item:3004}}, wich in itself is a route only a handfull of champs actually (should) take.
{{item:3089}} gives you more AP the more other AP items you have. {{item:3285}} passive scales with AP, but I admit the scaling is pretty low on this one {{item:3100}} passive also scales with AP, scaling here is much higher than Luden's Another example of AP item scaling with other sources of AP (and attack speed) would be {{item:3115}}
Mijak (EUNE)
: Problems with AP scalings on tanks and how to solve them [ITEM SUGGESTION]
You can also go more agressive route with this item - {{item:3047}} {{item:3068}} {{item:3001}} {{item:3151}} {{item:3027}} - in this case The Law of Stone itself would give you 130 AP, what together with other items would sum up to 305. But you wouldn't be a true tank, more of an AP bruiser.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
xxxXFANXxxx (EUNE)
: Sylas ults that i dont get
RITO had some weird ideas earlier, but this time they went too far. Every champion has unique design, the way their abilities takes different % of their power budget, how their abilities interact with one another - now they are throwing it out of the window. That one champion will make designing anything in the future a nightmare. But maybe - just maybe - this is a sign that they are close to stop adding new champions and reaching a stable, non-changing state of the game.
Rioter Comments
Mijak (EUNE)
: I think this whole new Darkin lore maybe makes sense, but it's also very dissapointing. When Aatrox first came out, they were supposed to be something fresh to the lore. Mtsterious race, unlike no other, older then humanity and very powerfull. But they are just some random ascended from Shurima, broken and much weaker than at their prime. And even then, none of them would stand a chance against Nasus or Renekton. It makes sense, that people of Runeterra could forget about ascended and be wrong thinking of Darkin as some other creatures. It makes sense, that they doesn't look Shurimian anymore, after fighting for thousands of years all over the world and the Void. But it's also very dissapointing.
I also thought as first that they were seald in powerfull weapons because they are immortal and can't be killed, so it was the only way to stop them. But now we learn that they could have been killed relatively easily, but were imprisoned for eternity instead - which is more difficult and risky - just to make their punishment more cruel. Not very convincing motivation to do such thing.
Grimmrok (EUNE)
: Aatrox, a Shuriman ascended(?)
I think this whole new Darkin lore maybe makes sense, but it's also very dissapointing. When Aatrox first came out, they were supposed to be something fresh to the lore. Mtsterious race, unlike no other, older then humanity and very powerfull. But they are just some random ascended from Shurima, broken and much weaker than at their prime. And even then, none of them would stand a chance against Nasus or Renekton. It makes sense, that people of Runeterra could forget about ascended and be wrong thinking of Darkin as some other creatures. It makes sense, that they doesn't look Shurimian anymore, after fighting for thousands of years all over the world and the Void. But it's also very dissapointing.
: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKlpccV2Ydo
It's totally different when it's only in one lane. It clearly benefits the team with minions on all 3 lanes, because some of them can just leave lane and take exp from enemy minions in other lanes, what makes them fall off just a bit in exp, while the team without minions has to always put one of their champions in that lane. But if there were no enemy minions at all, the whole team would fall off so drasticly in exp, that enemy team could be able to just dive them all the time and destroy turrets while tanking them.
Mijak (EUNE)
: Jared, the Tailor of Pain [champion concept]
Riot, why are you doing it again? You used some of my gameplay ideas for Irelia rework without letting me know. Just hire me for champion design already!
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Perilum (EUW)
: Most champions get armor per level, but not MR per level. There is no need for a AD/Armor item, because that would make Juggernauts, Bruisers and Assassins incredible strong. Also that item design isn't fitting in your designated role.
Aaaand Riot made Guardian Angel into an item for ADC champions. With AD and armor. So I was partially right that item like this was needed.
GLurch (EUW)
: Custom. Skin. Programs. They can make anything happen, Illaoi has it already.
Yep. It will never be official, but maybe someone will use my idea to make a custom skin.
Perilum (EUW)
: Most champions get armor per level, but not MR per level. There is no need for a AD/Armor item, because that would make Juggernauts, Bruisers and Assassins incredible strong. Also that item design isn't fitting in your designated role.
But that's AD/crit/armor item. And passive is based on basic attacks. Most juggernauts, brusiers and assassins wouldn't make good use of it.
Rismosch (EUW)
: This game is rated 12+ Keep that in mind
I know, it's just a joke :v
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Snowman Arc (EUNE)
: I still think there is a lot of outplay potential and thinking on how to approach certain situations. Setting up minion waves for easy Q reset jumps is a mechanic in itself that offers a lot of mobility and thus outplay potential. Countless times I've dodged RIven's R by jumping around. Also, holding on to your E to use it at the correct moment is also crucial a lot of the times, and not just to make use of the stun, but sometimes, you need to save it up for, let's say Jax's E. I could even go as far as saying that activating W instantly isn't always the best idea, because you might get CC'ed which would make you lose out on some of its duration. Her R can also be very important to use correctly. Having a correct angle to shoot at the minion wave along with the enemy can be crucial. I've died in situations I shouldn't have, because I didn't have the correct angle to hit minions for the extra healing. I mean, Zed or LB are considered champions that can outplay, because of their mobility and trickiness. Irelia can also outplay with her Q, her E and bait out defensive mechanics from enemies and then activating her W etc. As a sidenote, I think her kit is very interesting. She has a unique E that slows /stuns based on the duelists' HP, has true damage on her autos which is also a very unique stat (only Master Yi also has this). Her Q is a reset mobility spell, which no one else has I believe. Yasuo can make endless uses of it by dashing to different targets, or other champions have 1-time or limited uses, like let's say Akali. Irelia has to kill something to get a reset and I believe this is very important and interesting aspect of her kit. Again, as I stated above, if I'd change something, it would be her ultimate or her passive, but I can't think of something fitting her at the moment.
Her kit allows her to outplay others, but I think what SatomiKun meant is there isn't much that her enemy can do to outplay her.
Snowman Arc (EUNE)
: Eh, it seems pretty weird to do something like this. Especially the E, it just seems like another random ability like let's say Olaf's or Trynda's E, that have their CD reduced by basic attacks. It doesn't appeal to me. To be honest, Irelia's kit seems so perfect right now. Ok passive, very good Q, with a lot of mechanical outplay potential, her iconic W, her E is also really good. If I would change anything on her, I would change her ult into something more dynamic rather than spamming it for damage and hoping for a spellblade proc. If you'd ask me, she's like the last champion that needs a rework right now. Her kit is straightforward, but has a high skillcap with a lot of room for outplay. If I could make a change to her, it would be in her ulti. Something like the first use of her Q completely resets its cooldown, or upon activating her ultimate, the W active timer is reset if it's already active. Obviously this would require some number changes, and I don't think it is needed.
Reducing cooldown with autoattacks on her E isn't random. It's an AoE ability that scales with on-hit effects, so I think it's reasonable for it to also scale with attack speed. And you may think she doesn't need a rework right now, but I've read somewhere that Riot is going to rework her anyway
: While the idea itself seems interesting, the passive would be difficult to balance, I guess. Like, if you attack a minion and the attached blade attacks the enemy champion.... do you get minion aggro or not? If you do, it will make trading and farming for Irelia pretty difficult. Because she gets minion aggro every time she last hits a minion. If you don't, that means actually too much free harass for Irelia. You attach a blade to an enemy, then keep farming minions. That has 2 effects: the enemy has to leave the zone and so is missing alot of cs, but when he comes back you just Q him again and he still cannot farm. Or you simply force a all-in that way. I don't think that mechanic is possible to balance in a fair way. Meanwhile, your champ is still pretty stat checky. There is not much strategic value in the skills. You jump on your enemy, activate your skills and hit him til he is dead. No need to reposition, not much strategic thought. But the AoE on hit effect seems interesting, maybe that could be implemented.
The whole idea of her passive is to make it possible for her to harras enemy champion when she is farming. So it's obvious that she shouldn't get minion aggro that way... But thanks for that comment, I didn't think about that. I thought it wouldn't really be that OP, because she has to attack you and then you can escape, because it has low range, but now I think it really has to be changed - higher range, but lower damage and a cooldown. I edited the main post, here is the old version of her passive, so your comment can still be understood by other readers: > Passive - Levitating blades > > When Irelia attack someone with basic attack or her Q, she attaches one blade to her target. > It has no cooldown, but only one opponent at the time can have a blade attached to him. > Whenever Irelia attacks anything, target with attached blade also gets attacked. > The blade deals only 50% of her AD, but applies on-hit effects (except Cleave and Spellblade) > and can crit. > If she attacks target that already has attached blade, he gets attacked by the blade > only once for every two attacks. > Blade is attached until the target dies or moves over 400 distance away from Irelia > or if she uses her Q on other target.
Rioter Comments
kluby (EUW)
: that passif shield idea doesn't seem great, its like yasuos passif in more powerfull, where you have to just use a spell/auto to take it away and then you can engage later. : My idea an activatable shield that creats a small buble around galio that reduces ennemi armor/mr and increases allie armor/mr. NO heal effect. this will make galio stronger in mele range witch is good for a melee champion, and this will icrease is suport kit maybe enough to make him viable as a support aswell. the fact that galio gets alot of movement speed on the E is good,even essential, but I don't think that that should be at the cost of team play. I think galio is a team mage where everybody engages with him. :increase the speed, increase the cooldown (to about 20 second), and increase the duration of the windpath. keep the falling fist idea, maybe just change the q when it is sent from a winpath to a mono target root, because its kinda of complicated as you had it. the ult idea is nice, reduce the cooldown though. not saying my Ideas are better but what do you think?
Well, I agree that my vision of Galio would make him much more selfish kind of champion. You turned my attention to his more supportive role. For example, now he can put his shield on allies, what (in my opinion) is needlessly complicated, but maybe it's true that he needs something to still be able to help his teammates. I am just not sure if your idea is good enough. Healing when taking damage is sick mechanic, but I think that crazy health sustain is just essential for his gamplay right now. Hm... I think now I did a good job changing it. Not passive anymore and giving him some utility for his team. About E - he would still give some MS for his team, I just think he also need much more mobility for himself and giving the same amount for everyone else would be just OP. Increasing duration and cooldown would make him better in teamfights, but I think that E should be his secondary tool to poke and trade in lane - less efficient than Q, but still can be used for that purpose. About falling fist idea - I think just Q through windpath for root is more simple, but just not good enough. Whole idea about more movement speed for him and rooting only with basic attack is to highlight his melee/tank nature.
: Remove auto-fill in bronze-gold
I agree. Autofill might be needed in high elo, when players have to wait a lot to find a matchup, but in lower it's just cancer without an excuse. Especially now, when normal draft is removed :/
: Just so you know, the Galio rework is a full relaunch. Most of his kit is getting changed, not just the effects of his current kit. Also, that W change would severely nerf him. And along with the damage nerfs and the range nerf to his ult, that would more or less ruin him.
I know it's a full relauch. It makes me a bit sad because I think he could be fixed without changing that much. I am not sure if W change is 100% nerf. Itt would cost no mana and sometimes still heal him for much more than the damage he takes during that time. And for late game these numbers with just 10 sec cooldown would make him almost unkillable. And all of the numbers could be adjusted, it's just my initial vision. About damage - it wouldn't be taken away from him, it would be moved into that Falling Fist effect, which would also give him some CC outside of his ult (pretty good thing to have on both mage and tank roles). About ultimate - shorter range just means now most of ranged champions can attack him without going into it. I think it would make him just more balanced. Some ADC champions like Caitlyn can do it now, but most of them can't - I think it's pretty weird. I think even with range nerf it would be stronger now, because of much more reliable setup with mobility from E and immunity from all of those annoying on-hit interrupts.
Gojiraw (EUNE)
: No CC on Rito... That sucks...
I know... But he has to lack something in order to be balanced.
Rioter Comments
: R: Rito summons a lane wide windwall that lasts for 30 seconds blocking all enemy spells and auto attacks (Even ones Yasuo cant block)
Good idea, but I think I have better one. R - A bit of utility For 6/8/10 seconds all champions in Rito's team gets passive effects of his basic abilities.
Rioter Comments
Bauble (EUW)
: Great idea, I +1ed it! The only thing I would change is making all players with "troll/feeder" role, instead of just 1. That would be more fun
There can be more than one, but if all players wants their nexus to be destroyed it would be boring. Pretty much minions vs minions game. What's the point of feeding on purpose when there is nobody who wants to pick your kill?
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: I actually don't think it would be broken, because you are giving squishies the ability to defend themselves. In my opinion, it would be broken in hands of champions who already have tons of CC. Imagine that item (it even has fitting stats) in hands of this guy: {{champion:111}} In his combo, a delay of 5 seconds (which can be even lowered by AA'ing in your description) doesn't mean much. He would activate the item then R->Q->AA->E. I dont want to face a Nautilus with that kind of item option.
In my opinion giving someone something that he totally lacks is stronger than giving someone more of something that he already has. Nautilus with this item would be good, because he would have no problem surviving long enough to trigger it, true. But it doesn't really matter if you are locked down for 2,5 or 3,5 seconds. It will probably be enough time for enemy team to kill you before you can react anyway. And you can already expect hard CC from Nautilus, so it wouldn't have this element of surprise. And he would still have to be close to his squishy teammates in order to protect them (what he already can do, just using his champion abilities), while with hard CC item for squishies you couldn't really kill them even if they are alone. That's why - IMO - instant CC item would be much, much stronger for a squishy champion. But with delay and stats like that... It's kind of balanced for many kinds of champions. About fitting stats - HP + Armor are fitting, but on this item it's not much. AD is _kind of_ useful on every champion, but in hands of Nautilus most of this AD and lifesteal would be totally wasted.
Rioter Comments
: Umm... you build a zzrot portal?
It's not about having an item that gives both armor and magic resist, it's about item that counters on-hit effects.
Mijak (EUNE)
: Tank item idea
Instead of this new passive it could have much stronger version of cold steel that lowers enemy attack speed by 35% instead of 15%. That way noone would complain about true damage not being true, but - in fact - it would be just as effective vs on-hit effects that deals true damage. BUT I want this item to counter on-hit effects specificaly, not all autoattack based champions. You can also check my new idea (EDIT in the main post).
Fajerk (EUW)
: > UNIQUE PASSIVE – You take 25% less damage from every on-hit effect > (works even against true damage) Such passive would completely break true damage mechanic. Also just reducing attacks speed in general, or perhaps reducing dmg in overall (exhaust like effect) should be more effective than single case passive that would be either completely useless or counter hard certain champions. The design of specific passive to counter on-hit effects is rather troublesome to balance, likely ending up in spot of Rageblade (item that almost nobody ever buy because there is always better option).
> Such passive would completely break true damage mechanic. It's not vs all kinds of true damage, it's only vs ones that are also on-hit effects, so it wouldn't break all these executions, when you have to be 100% sure that you will deal this damage and not less (Darius or Cho'Gath ultimates, Olaf E etc). True damage on hit (Irelia, Master Yi, Vayne) would still be stronger than physical or magic, because it's lowered only by this passive, while other kinds of damage are also reduced by armor and magic resist.
Jhin Bot (EUW)
: Increase in champion points for loss
Another argument for this idea - it's, in fact, much more difficult to get high rate when your team is losing. But I think the most important argument against this idea is to make players more focused about winning the game than just having good stats.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Larry (EUNE)
: So you basically made zohnya's item work in literally EVERY scenario (who's active is uncounterable the way it is.) I like your idea, dont get me wrong, but itemization itself is the idea of "flexible". I would personally like having more in depth itemization and theorycrafting, and alot more options to build than the current ones. But we have to be patient about that since riot gradually alters the items and what they provide, and with each change they do a step forward in that particular subject. I don't want to see "different versions" for every item to provide you with the perfect stats, and make them risk free. You can't build an armor item and enhance it with MR, you get me?
That's why my idea is to make it just to a certain extent. There wouldn't be Zhonya that gives you 45 Magic Resist and no Armor - you can add **some** MR to it, but if it's originally an Armor item, the Armor will still be superior here. Yes, my idea is basically about removing **some** of the risks about buying certain items and make them work in every scenario (because it's a 100% must have for some champions), but still it would be better in some scenarios and worse in others. It certainly wouldn't be about getting **perfect** stats all the time.
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Level 105 (EUNE)
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