Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
LoL for real? Did I really guess your country? I don't care about the argument anymore as it seems to lead nowhere and is rather not worth the time(took me some time to realise that, god I'm dumb). But I am really curious if you are from Sweden, the arabic european country.
: Alright my bad. Yeah the community certainly has its downsides, nobody's saying things are perfect. In fact I'd love to have a Tribunal, while it's not as effective as the IFS, it gives the players a sense of justice. It becomes more present in people's minds, and it might even increase the value sportsmanship has in League. It could definitely work hand in hand with the IFS. ---- Lyte shared lots of information about toxicity and player behavior, some stats about the development of toxicity were part of his ask.fm iirc. I'm sure this was related to the entire community. ---- > Also you might not be so good at English as you think you are. Uhm, ouch!? May I ask what exactly makes you think that?
I came to say one last thing. Thanks. I did enjoy talking with you. Other people I've talked to, got angry and when people get angry you can't really have a conversation anymore. But you didn't. I appreciate that a lot. Sorry for insulting your english, that was a reference to the fact you misunderstood was I said. I feel as the IFS should be capable of telling if it is sure of something or not. And if it is not, the case should be passed to a new Tribunal. But I realise how hard that would be tehnically speaking. Regardless of our contradictions and differences of opinion, I enjoyed this conversation. Have a nice day!
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
If somebody punches you in the nose it is aggresion and they are punished. No matter what word you said to them before. Are you from Sweden or what? Only there this could be considered correct. However I have to leave, so I bid you a good day.
Get Juk3d (EUNE)
: FIGHT !!! FIGHT !!! FIGHT !!!
Soz, but I have stuff to do. Can't continue. :(
Shlashpro (EUW)
: It is weird that riots ban system went full snowflake mode, especially since riots playerbase is leaving slowly but surely. A lot of big streamers quit League already, also most of the people who used to do league comedy videos on youtube. I mean has anyone notices that league suddenly is advertising the game everywhere? I think they look desperately for new players now and this makes sense, low elo feels way worse skill and knowledge wise than it's used to be i mean just compare gold elo season 8 and gold elo season 5.
You aren't wrong. They're trying to keep it alive, but at the same time killing it.
: >You seem keen on disagreeing with me problem? just because you think you are right, it doesn't mean you are or that everyone else is supposed to think like you > I did not call Shiwah a SJW. i never said you did. i said >you calling people **PEOPLE** as in "in general"
I did not call people I disagree with, SJWs. You seem to have some googles of your own. You saying what you said as a reply, was an obvious attempt at throwing all that I say out, because of an imaginary thing that your mind has brough you to. And now you are trying to justify that. Please don't.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
First amendment? What? Whatever. Europe. Not America. Invoking shitty comics about the legal meaning of it. In the thread in which I invoked freedom of speech, I didn't refer to the legal term, which is in fact almost stepped on by SJWs. I reffered to the fact that anyone should be able to say whatever they want, as long as they don't threaten or directly interfere or ruin one's reputation therefore creating actual problems in their life. This is merely an opinion, and it is how the world is currently in this side. Most people do insult other people from time to time, but they don't ruin other people. I also believe I stated it was an opinion, and if I did not, in any way stated such a thing, I do apologize. A community , has to have rules, but those rules should have some known boundaries.
: > The SJW's and easily offended people don't help either. you calling people, who say you are wrong, "SJW" doesn't help either
You seem keen on disagreeing with me and putting words in my mouth. I did not call Shiwah a SJW. I did not read enough of his comments to come to that conclusion. I do have a first impression of him being one, but I don't agree with first impressions being enough.
: >Also lemme share a fun fact. People, used to or are still, getting banned for using the word Macht, which means marks in german. Because it is also used a slang by some small minority. depends on how you use it. if you say "this Tristana is such a Macht" or "Macht you, Evelynn" or whatever, then you can't pull the "i meant german currency" excuse
True. But is the machine learning program behind, capable of making this difference. What if I write "macht macht macht" in the chat? Is it capable of making the difference?
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
Might be true. Might not be. The thing that remains is that the community currently sucks. The SJW's and easily offended people don't help either.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
Depending where you are, something that is an insult somewhere else isn't an insult. While people do learn insults and profanities, they don't all learn slangs. Can you tell me what a "chocholate shower" is? I did learn a few days ago. I highly doubt that every english speaker knows of this. It's a slang. You can't logically censor a word, a phrase or a shortening just because it also is a slang. As opposed to the other people that I've talked to you are quite the aggresive one and maybe close-minded too.
: >The Tribunal wasn't faster than the current IFS. wat? In the past, multiple players had to read through chatlogs and vote on them. Nowadays, it's automatically scanned, some people get punished less than 10 seconds after the game. That _is_ faster. --- >you can ask anyone who played the game for at least 3 years. 8 out of 10 people will say that the toxicity increased. 10/10 people are affected by cognitive biases. Rosy retrospection and negativity bias are leading examples here. I'm sure you've heard old people say something like "_everything was better in the old days_". Yeah, it wasn't, but our brains simply only remember the good shit in the long run. >Comparing the rates also isn't really helpful. The game increased its numbers. Of course it is helpful, Riot's analysts are smart enough to look at percentages, not just at flat values. --- I'm not saying you can't possbily makes jokes or insult people with a minority status. There are black people who are cool with their white friends calling them "n%ggers", it's a completely different story once a layer of trust has been formed. If you've been at such an event for a few days it's very much different from when you talk to a stranger out on the streets. ---- >You can't expect beginner english speakers or medium level, like most of League's players are, to understand and comprehend all words and slangs If they don't understand it, they can't use it.
Read again: The Tribunal wasn't faster than the current IFS. THE TRIBUNAL WAS NOT FASTER. IT MEANS THAT THE TRIBUNAL WAS SLOWER. People are indeed affected by cognitive biases. I might be too, but that doesnt mean the game's community isn't in a bad state. Leaving aside the fact that it might be complete bullshit(As far as I know we haven't been given any exact statistics and the stuff they did the study on.), I will come with a situation. Let's say that we have a place with a hundred people, ten which are toxic. This place gets 100 more people, not one of them is toxic. Percentage decreased to 5%. Did something happen that made people more reformed and more friendly? No. Just some different people came up. This might be irrelevant however from other points. Another question is, the studies which show that the toxicity decreased, are they done on the entire community? Depending on the region, on the ranked placement, on the game mode, the toxicity differs. They might not completely understand it, but they do understand it at a certain level. And whatever you say, they still do talk it. Also you might not be so good at English as you think you are.
Get Juk3d (EUNE)
: let's be honest
The game doesn't suck. The community does. It used to not. That is the problem I guess. I, for one, only play in duos or more with friends. Playing alone is like stabbing myself. Not cool.
: >Yeah, the toxicity decreases. When I mute chat, pings and emotes. you can mute pings and emotes too ;)
Yeah I did write that. After my own suspension(one game, one word, which I also didn't know of), which I've posted about too, is gone, I will only play with them muted from the beginning of the game. The current state of the community isn't one in which I can freely cooperate with my team. Even if it lowers my winrate. People are too sensible about themselves, and too much of assholes to others. Also lemme share a fun fact. People, used to or are still, getting banned for using the word Macht, which means marks in german. Because it is also used a slang by some small minority.
Shlashpro (EUW)
: I would love to post the video in this forum, however riot banned all people involved with this and who abused the system. Afterwards they told youtube to remove the video from the page. To tell you what happened. 1. The youtuber baited people into insulting him, with misplaying and telling them if they dont insult him he will be afk in a ranked game. 2. The people who tried to not lose the game insulted him since he took the game hostage. 3. After the game he got tons of notifications that his reported helped and these players got punished. Conculsion, he took the game hostage, trolled several ranked games to bait other people to insult him AND he didnt received any punishment, but all the other people did. He ONLY got punished AFTER the video went viral.
Yeah this just shows another problem of the system that Riot should spend more time into solving . People still flamed and the system detected them. The system from this point of view wasn't malfunctioning.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
Oh yeah sorry about the first one, that was a mistake in my phrasing. I do know that you are not Rioters, and I was reffering to Riot. I do know taht you are volunteers. About the second of all, what you can say to strangers in real life depends again on the place you are from, the mentality people around you have, and the mentality you have. About the third of all, I do agree, but it would be benefic to people who aren't that well versed in English and your "common sense" to understand what it actually means and what they aren't allowed to say.
: > I don't like calling people SJWs but you feel like one. Oh trust me, I'm not a SJW. It's just that last time I checked calling people "n%ggers", "f%ggots" and "b%tch" wasn't okay. From what I can see Slashporo was the one to bring Social Justice into this by portraying me as the guy berating others for "misgendering" or some crap. >One simple example is between people of black color. They call eachother the N word and it is not offending. It is offending only when white people do it due to the history of the word. Yeah, that _is_ pretty weird, but my point is: Everybody who speaks English knows that it's not okay to call a black person "n%gger" unless you're black yourself. It's a sort of self-deprecating humor, they can "insult" each other like that because they are affected by it just as much. ---- To bring another example into this: People who sit in a wheelchair can jokingly call themselves or others "cripples", because it's self-deprecating humor, it's not cool when others do it. >or bring back the Tribunal, this wouldn't be a problem The Tribunal wasn't better than the current IFS, all data indicates otherwise. With the introduction of the IFS, reform rates have gone up, report rates have gone down, the general amount of toxicity has decreased, and handing out punishments doesn't take up to a month anymore, it merely takes seconds/ minutes.
The Tribunal wasn't _faster_ than the current IFS. Toxicity might've decreased in higher elo tiers I don't know. Or maybe other servers. For EUNE bronze-silver-gold-platinum-diamond, you can ask anyone who played the game for at least 3 years. 8 out of 10 people will say that the toxicity increased. Comparing the rates also isn't really helpful. The game increased its numbers. Yeah, the toxicity decreases. **When I mute chat, pings and emotes.** The way you think with the self-deprecating humor, you dig in too deep. They don't say it because they are affected it just by as much. They just say it. I have been once in an event that involved understanding crippled people. They were fun, and once their first days of being crippled were gone, all of them were making jokes and being capable of taking jokes like "hey man do you need an arm". What it does actually come down to, is one's mentality. Not their status. Also, everybody who is an English native speaker or an advanced one. You can't expect beginner english speakers or medium level, like most of League's players are, to understand and comprehend all words and slangs( I do agree, however, to the words you mentioned. But for example not anyone would understand the term "chocholate shower". )
Shlashpro (EUW)
: exactly, hitting your wive is basically forbidden and is looked down on in both europe and america, but its the most normal thing in arabic countries, just like stoning woman to death for reasons like adultry? or for refusing to wear a hijab. This "common sense" thing you refer to, is a westernized version of a "common sense" you maybe want to make this one clear
Excuse me for the next phrases. Also tell me if i misunderstood what you mean. How the f*ck would you even reach that conclusion from what I said? We are not comparing Europe/America to arabic countries. We are not comparing actions. We are talking about common sense regarding words. No matter what people say nowadays, sticks and stones will break your bones and they do hurt more than words. This censor of words is something that I do not agree with(freedom of speech?yeh until you trigger someone), but that is another topic.
: > exposed for what it is, a word filter by a youtuber Oh noes, a Youtuber. What was the video titled? >**Riot EXPOSED!!! Unfair ban by BAD SYSTEM #Leagueisdying #noclickbait** What does a YouTuber know? People treat them like they know everything, when half the time they're just making stuff up themselves. I'm curious though, wouldyou mind linking that video? ---- ** The system is not a word filter.** I might not be a YouTuber saying this, but I worked on a collection of sources and studied the Player Behavior system of League of Legends. Take a peek: http://en.volu-eu.org/library.php
Machine learning is used to feed the Instant Feedback System with data on the context of phrases [149, 175]. I suppose the program analysed several tens of thousands of cases where players got banned and even more where they had questionable chat activity and reached a state where it can tell good from bad. But for some reason I highly doubt the quality of this. Text analysis and figuring out what is the meaning that the user intends to express is still very hard for a computer to do. The system itself may not be a word filter, but it certainly has some "trigger" words.
: Actually, I think the understanding of verbal abuse is pretty similar, especially on the internet. The internet has its own culture, entire new words are being invented and people behave differently. Stuff like "gg ez" "rekt" or "boosted bonobo" will hardly ring a bell for people who aren't part of this culture. ---- I really don't see the need for such a list. I feel like it would give jerks way to much help, they are supposed to know when they're being toxic. > this would also avoid some of the "mistake" bans. I haven't seen any "mistake" ban, what do you mean?
The internet has it's own culture, are we obligated to know it? What if we are people, who do not spend all their time online and only play during their holidays? I don't like calling people SJWs but you feel like one. But the difference is you don't scream and you are capable of speaking. Now resuming: > The understanding of verbal abuse isn't pretty similar. One simple example is between people of black color. They call eachother the N word and it is not offending. It is offending only when white people do it due to the history of the word. > The internet has its own culture. Yeah, and your player base isn't only consisted of people between 12 and 16 who know the internet perfectly. I, for one, don't. > I really dont see the need for such a list. Yeah, it would be giving a jerks some help, but if you would improve your system or bring back the Tribunal, this wouldn't be a problem. Other people, that dont know of things, would read the list and be like:" Oh I can't say this word, slang or diminutive, it would be an insult to other people. I understand. Now I can easily avoid any "mistake" punishments.
: > with which i am not offensive towards gay People Well, try calling black people "n%ggers" and see how well that goes for you. Yeah, maybe you're not actually homophobic, but you're using terms that have a clear bad connotation, that's not acceptable. As I mentioned above: There's no "list" of what you can and can't say. If you're a somewhat normal functioning human, common sense is generally enough to tell when you're being a jerk to others. Responding to shittalk isn't generally a good idea, just because others break the rules doesn't mean you can do the same.
Common sense differs from country to country. What you might consider offensive in America or in Spain, might not be considered so in Russia. You should at least release a list of the words that your system instantly detects. I know that some people might start to avoid them, but this would also avoid some of the "mistake" bans.
Shlashpro (EUW)
: isn't %%%%%%ed a medical term for mentally challenged people?
Yeah, I highly doubt the game can distinguish the context. They just take the main use of the word and throw it out on everyone. I might be wrong, but Riot doesn't explain in any way how their system works. My guess is this: They have some poopie words. Poopie words trigger the bot. Bot gives you suspension. Probably more advanced but around this point.
: I doubt it. There's a high chance that the % are hiding one of the classic 3 characters insta-ban triggers
Yeah might be. Found out about that too recently, and about the meaning of it. Seems like since the tribunal days only this is a toxic thing. A slang. People wishing cancer and death to other people's families isn't really comparable to a slang and is an offense that can be ignored.
: Benn really toxic this time boys (tell me where this is toxic wtf is going on with league these days
It is toxic, however you probably normally wouldn't get a suspension for this. You probably got a ticket sent about you to riot support, they checked it and gave you a suspension.
Rioter Comments
Cryptidian (EUNE)
: The new Client is very slow, and I mean VERY slow
Besides the lag and all,it feels like it's designed by a monkey.And a dumb one at that.
: NERD DEFINITION:an unstylish, unattractive, or socially inept person; especially : one slavishly devoted to intellectual or academic pursuits A true nerd wouldn't be on LoL.I bet ya can remember the last time now. Piece of advice:just mute.
Also dont play yasuo top dude.It makes me cry.
lil pëep (EUW)
: WTF is this community
NERD DEFINITION:an unstylish, unattractive, or socially inept person; especially : one slavishly devoted to intellectual or academic pursuits A true nerd wouldn't be on LoL.I bet ya can remember the last time now. Piece of advice:just mute.
x ALeWa x (EUNE)
: Are you sure?
hundred percent.Worked for me.It masks your ip so the riot server will act like its something else and not UPC.You can check my historic i played yestarday around 7 pm(GMT+2) my last promo match.
Amaya Aiko (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=FaithTheLegend,realm=EUNE,application-id=ln3nNJrX,discussion-id=Ao1mY7EO,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-09-17T15:31:19.061+0000) > > hmph.Thats's strange.For me i can play in mornings easily with no problems till about 14:30(GMT+2).Play something else while they fix it,send a ticket. Same here. I can play in the morning with no problem and after lunch the hell breaks loose.. I also have a ticket open I've done everything they asked and still nothing and still waiting.
hey dude i found a fix.Download cyber ghost and it will change your ip.That way your connections will actually be made like you are not from upc and everything will work fine.I finally got to play my promo,and got to g5:D
VoYq (EUNE)
: Yup I have the same problem but only when i log in to EUNE servers. I've logged in NA severs without any problems ... but there is the ping problem over there.
Download cyber ghost and start it.It will fix it.Worked for me.
Ketchupko (EUNE)
: Again and again login problem ^^ - Unknown error today
Here is a fix.Download Cyber Ghost or a simillar program(Tho i can confirm cyber ghost works).It fixes the problem/
Rioter Comments
xEnchanted (EUNE)
: Same problem, but I thought it will fix by itself (it started yesterday), since it's not the first time. Anyone with any fixes?
Check my post.I found a fix some minutes ago.
snid3r3uk1s (EUNE)
: same here problem what i can do 2day i cant to login?
hmph.Thats's strange.For me i can play in mornings easily with no problems till about 14:30(GMT+2).Play something else while they fix it,send a ticket.
Rioter Comments
: I can't login
Are you on UPC?I have the same fking problem.Even lost one of my promos cuz i got in queue and i ended up dodging(not really,but unknown error=freeze game to first ban,even if chat working).

Rope on my neck

Level 71 (EUNE)
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