: False. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/264509145766428673/569776210372984872/Screenshot_2019-04-22_at_09.46.49.png Feel free to delete the thread.
> [{quoted}](name=The Lane Police,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=IiJLBheV,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-08T02:28:45.040+0000) > > False. > > https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/264509145766428673/569776210372984872/Screenshot_2019-04-22_at_09.46.49.png > > Feel free to delete the thread. Next time, try doing that and winning 2-3 1v1's in the match, and having 200cs/game, but just... afk pushing, without taking towers, or any objectives and always being on the opposite side of the map. And voila, you won't get banned. Soft-int isn't bannable sadly, I personaly don't do it since I used to be too passionate and couldn't let myself lose the game, but I know many people who've done it, and never got 1 punishment for it.
: Vayne's true damage.
I love it how clueless some people are, and everyone's attacking Vayne's true damage, wich never before proved to be an issue. The issue is her ult+tumble buff. The true damage was always there, guinsoo's been there for over 2-3 seasons, and there were no issues. The rune system rework + vayne buffs => A monster. Revert her ult buffs completely. Problem solved. Also, the things that make Vayne unique, at the same time make Vayne only deal damage through autoattacking on quite low range to be fair. There is so many abilities/carries that outrange her & some even outdamage her. Vayne truly shines when the circumstances allow for shreding 1 target at a time, while other carries can kill multiple at once (Kog'maw, Kai'sa, Ashe, Jinx)
: An item similar to adaptive helm, but against burst mages instead of dps mages.
What stops an AD-carry from getting this, and becoming unburstable (wich is suppossed to be their weakness)?
Hansiman (EUW)
: Riot has already answered this [here](https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2017/05/ask-riot-classic-mode/).
> [{quoted}](name=Hansiman,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=bhA4Z3Rs,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-31T07:46:51.114+0000) > > Riot has already answered this [here](https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2017/05/ask-riot-classic-mode/). Run! It's the "I don't need to play the game to balance it"! The one, the legend, the ruiner of league - the: Ghostcrawler.
PzyXo (EUW)
: adc are strong :) everything is balanced :) draven = rengar's damage . with stormrazor and darkharvest and duskblade and {{item:3078}} = 1 shot to an assassin before he even catch him . same as mf and jhin . and kai'sa too . jinx's E stop rengar and khazix's E . and kayn's Q too . easy kills . in the other hand assassins like kayn for example "fast af boi" he auto u and u die and i do that cuz i'm kayn main and i know that i do that but it's limited to 1 person or 2 and i die in 0.6 sec cuz no deff items . wukong the same . E Q oneshot kill and np he die easy. everychamp can counter a champ if he got a brain exept this %%%%ing akali which 1v5 and leave with full hp . ONLY CHAMPION NEED A HUGE NERF
> > adc are strong :) everything is balanced :) draven = rengar's damage . with stormrazor and darkharvest and duskblade and {{item:3078}} = 1 shot to an assassin before he even catch him . same as mf and jhin . and kai'sa too . jinx's E stop rengar and khazix's E . and kayn's Q too . easy kills . I want the drugs this guy's taking!
jacktjong (EUW)
: I haven't checked her current damage numbers and such, but I think it would only help her if she snowballs out of control. This change would basically just mean that you'll be adding around 33% damage output to her when she's doing what she always does... I'd say she needs some more trading power for in the laning phase, but I'm not a Kalista player. My idea which I just thought up and didn't really think through but think might help her in trading in the laning phase: Her Q deals damage to the first enemy hit. If the enemy is a minion or monster, the spear pierces the enemy, taking out the spears stacked by rend. Then, it keeps traveling, sticking into the first enemy champion hit and applying the rend stacks to them. A change like this would benefit her in the laning phase and get her her items a little quicker through either getting a little more kills early game or not dying as much and being able to farm. But hey, I'm not an adc main so I wouldn't exactly know what the champions would need to become relevant..
She'd end up hitting scuttle 15 times, qing the enemy jungle & one shotting it level 3 :D
: when you claim to "reform" "toxic" players into "decent people"
Korea: #1 Server in the world. Flaming/Afking in Korea: Not bannable. EU/NA: Garbage in comparison to Korea. Flaming/afking on EU/NA: Bannable. Hmmmm...
: Toxic Teammates and Arrogant winners...in normal games
And especialy since it's in the heat of the moment. Like, when people play football, they argue, they call each other names. When people play hockey, they %%%%in end up blowing fists even if they're friends, and afterwards they crack a cold one. But woopty doo, someone says bad words in a video game online BAM, permabanned! *And the game is still in a crap state where even Jesus would struggle to get the correct way into the design team since they don't listen to jackshit*
: Toxic Teammates and Arrogant winners...in normal games
In my opinion, "toxicity" should exist, and flaming aswell, because it is a competitive game after all. You should strive to win. I really don't understand why would you ban someone playing the game for calling someone else names over the internet. Especialy since the /muteall option exists.
: which skin/champ would you recommend for me (new player)
Ignore literaly what everyone's told you, and only take the advice on {{champion:1}} . She is easy, has high potential, and will smoothe you into the game. Once you get the game basics, rotations & macro, then you should focus on champions that, what people say "require skill".
: Nexus Blitz Bug: Event started and the enemy team won it instantly
Nexus blitz bug: We were stomping the enemy team, and the nexuses were about to fight, and enemies Nexus didn't get up & was untargetable in the base and they basicly won a lost game xD
Jebane xD (EUW)
: garbage fu cking company
I mean his account is level 16. If he's a new player, he still has a lot to learn instead of already crying about certain champs. But I'm guessing this is an alt account, because he's scared of posting on his main. Weak.
Rioter Comments
Shadow0z (EUNE)
: i only got lags in league not in any other thing also the lags are from patch 7.14
> [{quoted}](name=Shadow0z,realm=EUNE,application-id=eZuvYsEr,discussion-id=Av7QEcGB,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-08-24T19:17:40.243+0000) > > i only got lags in league not in any other thing > also the lags are from patch 7.14 I started getting ping spikes since 7.17. Nothing changed. Upgraded my net at 7.15 and since then had a constant 33 ping, after 7.17 hit and the bug with replays occured my ping constantly spikes at complete random times from 33 to 130. If it was constant 130, that wouldn't be an issue (i mean it would, but I'd get used to it.) The problem is it spikes, and everything freezes and literaly throws me 1 second into the future. GG Riot. Better work on nerfing Elise and Cassio instead of fixing your goddamn crap. {{champion:32}} {{item:3070}} Also, friend has an issue where his right click doesn't register sometimes. Also started in 7.17
: > [{quoted}](name=The7thSeal,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=iAXvFwZn,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-02-25T00:36:51.259+0000) > > There were enough OP picks that you could ban 6 of them and there would still be enough to fill both teams. That's where the problem lies. that wasn't a problem though because if your good you could win but now one team could be lucky to get a few and then win and the other team just get useless champs
> [{quoted}](name=Gamer Life,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=iAXvFwZn,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-25T00:47:57.003+0000) > > that wasn't a problem though because if your good you could win but now one team could be lucky to get a few and then win and the other team just get useless champs Arurf isn't introduced to win, or lose, it's introduced to have fun, if you get into a bad game, oh well, shit happens, better luck next time.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: When? I can only see him 2 hitting people... and 1. he's one of the best Dravens in the world(Tyler1 > Vincent though) 2. He does have counterplay. Oppossing team had very little coordination - all you need to do is to hurl skillshots on his axe landing spots and chain cc him(so QSS wont help). 3 - although the damage is HUGE, he has a steady DPS. Vayne has BURST(and so do Cait and MF through spammable Traps and Q doubleshot). DPS is easier to play around. But Vayne - Cait - MF have both burst and DPS. That makes any assassination attempt FAR harder than it is, since assassins risk getting oneshotted themselves. In addition, Vayne already has a kind of true % DPS for taking out Tanks which are strong atm. Tank shredder + burst = gg rito nerf nao hurr durr IMBALANCED. Because it is. I forgot to mention, Draven is one of the best balanced ADs atm, at 50% win rate.
> [{quoted}](name=SMURF HENEKTON,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2sLTkWEK,comment-id=00030001000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-25T15:35:31.507+0000) > > When? I can only see him 2 hitting people... and 1. he's one of the best Dravens in the world(Tyler1 > Vincent though) 2. He does have counterplay. Oppossing team had very little coordination - all you need to do is to hurl skillshots on his axe landing spots and chain cc him(so QSS wont help). 3 - although the damage is HUGE, he has a steady DPS. Vayne has BURST(and so do Cait and MF through spammable Traps and Q doubleshot). DPS is easier to play around. > > But Vayne - Cait - MF have both burst and DPS. That makes any assassination attempt FAR harder than it is, since assassins risk getting oneshotted themselves. In addition, Vayne already has a kind of true % DPS for taking out Tanks which are strong atm. Tank shredder + burst = gg rito nerf nao hurr durr IMBALANCED. Because it is. > > I forgot to mention, Draven is one of the best balanced ADs atm, at 50% win rate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjsqnp6rMLY "op" "oh em ge" hurdurr
deVulse (EUNE)
: I play Vi myself and I think she's a bit too strong but seeing how you described Cancersuo (Yasuo) as UseleSsuo makes me think if i should really approach to you seriously and to this thread. However Vi needs to have a bit less damage true...
> [{quoted}](name=deVulse,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2sLTkWEK,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2017-01-25T07:46:23.556+0000) > > I play Vi myself and I think she's a bit too strong but seeing how you described Cancersuo (Yasuo) as UseleSsuo makes me think if i should really approach to you seriously and to this thread. > > However Vi needs to have a bit less damage true... Let me rephrase the "uselessSuo" statement. Even though Yasuo, if played perfectly, is imbalanced as hell, Yasuo players have a Lee Sin syndrome, and go 1v5, or turret dive you level 6, die, and then feed their ass off. Or they go 1v5, die, and throw a won game. They can't wait patiently for a good opportunity, but they take EVERY opportunity they get, and die in the process, and that is why Yasuo is useless. And he's just got nerfed, so he's even more useless. :-D
xXG3OXx (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=SomeOneButNoOne,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2sLTkWEK,comment-id=00090001,timestamp=2017-01-24T13:55:14.687+0000) > > Reach diamond playing ADC's only this season prior to riot doing shit about it, or get the %%%% out. > > Also, Kindred HAS a way of dealing with those Tanks. ADC's don't have a way of dealing with them. (Vayne exception) > > And when you have over 100 games in s7 and you're still stuck in Plat V, you're a special kind of monkey. > > Also mate, I have more games in the ADC role, then you probably have in the ENTIRETY of your ranked games. > And that is why my ego is high, and as an ADC main of 3 years, I've found more success in midlane, then in the ADC role in season 7. > Wich says A LOT. > > So, either realize when something HAS no counterplay in your imaginary scenarios. > In your elo, you don't even know what 5manning botlane means probably. > And when it happens you type "wtf 4 people you should get 5 that's not enough qq" > > The problem of tanks who have burst damage is IN THE MIDGAME, not the LATE GAME. > My mistake for not pointing that out. > Midgame starting @ 2 items. > > Right now the problem with ADC's is that they can't reach their %%%%ing 3rd/4th item, and the game is decided by everyone else, except us. > Cause: > A) we deal almost no damage to the frontliners who are going to buttrape us and > B) we're the squishiest so we get one shot > > While mage's can get their Zhonya's/Abyssal's/Protobelt and still put out a decent amount of damage, > ADC not getting IE/ER + zeal item, deals no damage. > > If youmuu's attack speed didn't get nerfed, then adc's could try the pen build and see if that bears any success, but since there's no more attack speed that's useless on almost everyone, hence - low damage output. > > Also every single ADC item is more expensive then every single tank item. (With the exception of zeal items, wich are around the cost of 1 tank item) > Yet some tank items, give DAMAGE on top of the stats (hi shitfire cape). > > ADC's are in a shit spot due to the fact that their items are not gold efficient compared to the tank items. Bro I ain't gonna argue with you because you are insulting everyone here to defend "your skill". I don't actually give a shit about your rank. A toxic player who also has that ego will be for me a no lifer who can't actually express their opinion without bringing the fact that how experienced you are. You are literally give us scenarios of enemy team having 2-3 tanks in their, which usually don't happen. Plus if you have sterak cage you won't be getting one shotted like you say, but you go full crit cause that's what you do with adc. Full damage all the way and then complaing why are you dying with 60-70 armor and 50-60 mr. Kid, believe me. No team will use all of their ults just on you. You have a team to help you, stop making scenarios 1 v 5 cause you think adc is only carrying the fight alone. As for Kindred, they are useful only if you get 3-4 stacks early to get a powerspike. If you don't succed to get at least 3 marks in 10 mins it will be hard to get the rest of them for the rest of the game. Believe me, Kindred is in an Azir-ish kind of spot, while adc are getting a hard time with the CoC keystone being added. Now please, can you stop whining about it and if you actually respond please do it wihout insults or telling me about "your skill" and your "experience" in the game cause that's meaningless to me, since i got in plat in 4-5 months and you got in dia in 3-4 years.
> [{quoted}](name=xXG3OXx,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2sLTkWEK,comment-id=000900010001,timestamp=2017-01-24T17:42:30.086+0000) > > Bro I ain't gonna argue with you because you are insulting everyone here to defend "your skill". I don't actually give a shit about your rank. A toxic player who also has that ego will be for me a no lifer who can't actually express their opinion without bringing the fact that how experienced you are. You are literally give us scenarios of enemy team having 2-3 tanks in their, which usually don't happen. Plus if you have sterak cage you won't be getting one shotted like you say, but you go full crit cause that's what you do with adc. Full damage all the way and then complaing why are you dying with 60-70 armor and 50-60 mr. Kid, believe me. No team will use all of their ults just on you. You have a team to help you, stop making scenarios 1 v 5 cause you think adc is only carrying the fight alone. > > As for Kindred, they are useful only if you get 3-4 stacks early to get a powerspike. If you don't succed to get at least 3 marks in 10 mins it will be hard to get the rest of them for the rest of the game. Believe me, Kindred is in an Azir-ish kind of spot, while adc are getting a hard time with the CoC keystone being added. Now please, can you stop whining about it and if you actually respond please do it wihout insults or telling me about "your skill" and your "experience" in the game cause that's meaningless to me, since i got in plat in 4-5 months and you got in dia in 3-4 years. I got to dia in 2 seasons. The problem is early & the midgame as I've stated multiple times. The parts of the game where you *mostly* have boots+ie+zeal item. And the early game. Where you have a bf sword+zeal while vi has an entire warriors enchant and level 6 when you're a level/two lower (if you're lucky and she didn't get any other kills, she's only one level higher). She goes botlane, presses R, gets a kill/double kill; snowballs out of control by doing nothing except pressing R while it's off cooldown. As for having 2 tanks, that's quite often in this meta due to COC. That is the early->midgame, at wich point you can't really get Sterak's because you won't have any damage in return. And at level 5 you can't get sterak's even if you tried going for it 1st item. Wich means the only way to stop Vi from snowballing is to invade her constantly, yet her duel power is higher in the early stages then most of the other junglers..
: > [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2sLTkWEK,comment-id=000100010001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-24T14:36:12.353+0000) > > I haven't seen any good LB's in a long time but shortly after the reworks there were a handful who just stomped me super hard. I tried everything i could think of and i still died extremely fast x) > > And kata....is completely skill dependent, but if she goes even an then a good teamfight pops up chances are she will dominate extremely hard. Her damage really isn't a joke. > > As for Heca falling of, granted he doesn't kill squishy's like Vi does after 30 min but isn't he tankier with a superior ultimate as far as team fights go? I think that is what he trades for damage. > > Lee is kinda unparalleled in the early and midgame. Makes him kinda scary in soloque. > > And i wouldn't say that Vi is extremely tanky, She jumps into the middle of your team with 3-3,5 k health and get's a barrier from COC that is for around 1,5 k hp. Then another one from her passive that is 300-500 hp something. So to kill her you burn through around 2 k barriers first. And with a {{item:3053}} that's another 1,5 k barrier up to 3,5 k. Now this is what i call OP. > > But even then she is squishier than a rammus doing the same. However she is stronger than rammus earlier due to her damage and very powerful ganks. If COC is tuned down and her damage takes a small hit she ought to be back in line. LB got nerfed, and brought back into balance, at release she was...an unfunny april fools joke. As I've said, I sincerely hope COC is the problem, since if it is, Vi is going to get back in line next patch.. If it's not, I hope she gets some damage reductions, or just a complete rework of her ultimate to introduce some coutnerplay to it. Hecarim's kind of useless in late game in my personal expirience, usualy at around 30th minute mark, he can only do anything if ADC/APC get waaay too out in the open, Lee is also a complete beast early/mid game, but if he makes 1 mistake, he's hardly going to recover unless he already started the snowball (High risk/high reward); But I've come to dislike Vi more then Syndra... {{champion:254}} = {{item:3070}}
> [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2sLTkWEK,comment-id=00010001000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-24T17:08:43.277+0000) > > Syndra will only murder the carriers from outside their range in under 2 seconds, vi goes in an rams her gauntlets up their asses, it's plain to see which one is more evil. c. The difference being Syndra is squishy, while Vi isn't, so your off-tank can one shot her, while Vi...*cough* cancer *cough*
: Sit down guys, imma tell you a story about how my adc died
Feelsbadman {{champion:32}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}}
: I haven't seen any good LB's in a long time but shortly after the reworks there were a handful who just stomped me super hard. I tried everything i could think of and i still died extremely fast x) And kata....is completely skill dependent, but if she goes even an then a good teamfight pops up chances are she will dominate extremely hard. Her damage really isn't a joke. As for Heca falling of, granted he doesn't kill squishy's like Vi does after 30 min but isn't he tankier with a superior ultimate as far as team fights go? I think that is what he trades for damage. Lee is kinda unparalleled in the early and midgame. Makes him kinda scary in soloque. And i wouldn't say that Vi is extremely tanky, She jumps into the middle of your team with 3-3,5 k health and get's a barrier from COC that is for around 1,5 k hp. Then another one from her passive that is 300-500 hp something. So to kill her you burn through around 2 k barriers first. And with a {{item:3053}} that's another 1,5 k barrier up to 3,5 k. Now this is what i call OP. But even then she is squishier than a rammus doing the same. However she is stronger than rammus earlier due to her damage and very powerful ganks. If COC is tuned down and her damage takes a small hit she ought to be back in line.
> [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2sLTkWEK,comment-id=000100010001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-24T14:36:12.353+0000) > > I haven't seen any good LB's in a long time but shortly after the reworks there were a handful who just stomped me super hard. I tried everything i could think of and i still died extremely fast x) > > And kata....is completely skill dependent, but if she goes even an then a good teamfight pops up chances are she will dominate extremely hard. Her damage really isn't a joke. > > As for Heca falling of, granted he doesn't kill squishy's like Vi does after 30 min but isn't he tankier with a superior ultimate as far as team fights go? I think that is what he trades for damage. > > Lee is kinda unparalleled in the early and midgame. Makes him kinda scary in soloque. > > And i wouldn't say that Vi is extremely tanky, She jumps into the middle of your team with 3-3,5 k health and get's a barrier from COC that is for around 1,5 k hp. Then another one from her passive that is 300-500 hp something. So to kill her you burn through around 2 k barriers first. And with a {{item:3053}} that's another 1,5 k barrier up to 3,5 k. Now this is what i call OP. > > But even then she is squishier than a rammus doing the same. However she is stronger than rammus earlier due to her damage and very powerful ganks. If COC is tuned down and her damage takes a small hit she ought to be back in line. LB got nerfed, and brought back into balance, at release she was...an unfunny april fools joke. As I've said, I sincerely hope COC is the problem, since if it is, Vi is going to get back in line next patch.. If it's not, I hope she gets some damage reductions, or just a complete rework of her ultimate to introduce some coutnerplay to it. Hecarim's kind of useless in late game in my personal expirience, usualy at around 30th minute mark, he can only do anything if ADC/APC get waaay too out in the open, Lee is also a complete beast early/mid game, but if he makes 1 mistake, he's hardly going to recover unless he already started the snowball (High risk/high reward); But I've come to dislike Vi more then Syndra... {{champion:254}} = {{item:3070}}
: She was always a powerhouse ganker x) And the cases where she is 6 and you are 5 is not really her fault, it's more towards jungle exp issues, several champ are abusing this notable ones are {{champion:64}} {{champion:102}} and {{champion:254}} . They reach 6 and gank with their ults while the opponent is still lvl 5 ensuring one or two easy kills. And then they snowball. As for toplane, really that place is always a fiesta for ganks. The red side is always vulnerable and if the red top pushes even slightly too hard he is liable to get a gank from behind via tribush there. That is why you pinkward it and drop normal wards in river while freezing the hell out the minions. Not to mention all the towerdives that can happen. Snowballing is extremely common for the meta junglers at this time, Lee sin and Shyvana are good examples of this but Vi just happens to be better at dealing with the lanes meta picks which is probably why she is so popular. As for her damage vs tankiness.....honestly she is abusing COC just as hard as {{champion:120}} , another currently famous powerhorse. If that mastery was weaker she'd be less of an issue. But like many other divers she is able to build 1-2 damage items then full tank and abuse any squishy target. This is extremely common for many popular junglers and toplaners and it's been a thing for ages. Vi is just more noticeable due to getting her ultimate earlier. She was never this big in any previous season but the mastery changes and buff to jungle exp has pushed her and other's into becoming extremely powerful. A similar but less common fellow who does the same is {{champion:56}} . A good one hit's lvl 6 while enemy ADC is barely hitting 5 then he insta dives bot with his {{item:1412}} already complete and gets a free double before proceeding to crap on the ADC for the rest of the game. His issue is that he is squishier and weaker early so invading him is not too hard unlike vi or lee sin. And finally Vi's Ultimate......i don't really know what to say about this, because it's true that it's crazy powerful. At least in the early-midgame. But later when people get stuff like zhonya and banshee it's suddenly kinda weak. And what is the Assassin treatment? O_o {{champion:107}}, {{champion:121}},{{champion:7}} and {{champion:55}} are gods if played well. {{champion:105}} is also very strong in practiced hands. The others are kinda mediocre.
> [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2sLTkWEK,comment-id=0001000100010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-24T14:02:55.056+0000) > > She was always a powerhouse ganker x) And the cases where she is 6 and you are 5 is not really her fault, it's more towards jungle exp issues, several champ are abusing this notable ones are {{champion:64}} {{champion:102}} and {{champion:254}} . They reach 6 and gank with their ults while the opponent is still lvl 5 ensuring one or two easy kills. And then they snowball. > > As for toplane, really that place is always a fiesta for ganks. The red side is always vulnerable and if the red top pushes even slightly too hard he is liable to get a gank from behind via tribush there. That is why you pinkward it and drop normal wards in river while freezing the hell out the minions. Not to mention all the towerdives that can happen. > > Snowballing is extremely common for the meta junglers at this time, Lee sin and Shyvana are good examples of this but Vi just happens to be better at dealing with the lanes meta picks which is probably why she is so popular. > > As for her damage vs tankiness.....honestly she is abusing COC just as hard as {{champion:120}} , another currently famous powerhorse. If that mastery was weaker she'd be less of an issue. But like many other divers she is able to build 1-2 damage items then full tank and abuse any squishy target. This is extremely common for many popular junglers and toplaners and it's been a thing for ages. Vi is just more noticeable due to getting her ultimate earlier. She was never this big in any previous season but the mastery changes and buff to jungle exp has pushed her and other's into becoming extremely powerful. > > A similar but less common fellow who does the same is {{champion:56}} . A good one hit's lvl 6 while enemy ADC is barely hitting 5 then he insta dives bot with his {{item:1412}} already complete and gets a free double before proceeding to crap on the ADC for the rest of the game. His issue is that he is squishier and weaker early so invading him is not too hard unlike vi or lee sin. > > And finally Vi's Ultimate......i don't really know what to say about this, because it's true that it's crazy powerful. At least in the early-midgame. But later when people get stuff like zhonya and banshee it's suddenly kinda weak. > > And what is the Assassin treatment? O_o {{champion:107}}, {{champion:121}},{{champion:7}} and {{champion:55}} are gods if played well. {{champion:105}} is also very strong in practiced hands. > > The others are kinda mediocre. To be completely honest, I've had less troubles with Lb/Fizz/Rengar/Kha then Vi/Lee sin/Hecarim (lee sin is alright now tbh, after the nerf he no longer insta-gibs me @ 6), Against LB you can just dodge her chain and she's pretty much useless, Fizz is annoying but just stand behind a tank and you're good :P Kata...not a problem unless she snowballs. Problem is - most of the times she does due to the auto reset on E, but you can play safe against her (most people underestimate the damage). I hope Colossus is the reason Vi is broken as hell. Because if it's not, it means that we're going to need to wait a patch longer to get her fixed. Also, Hecarim/Lee fall off way harder then Vi as the game progresses. Atleast from my expirience, hecarim (if he gets ahead) makes me his %%%%% for around 30 minutes, and then I make him mine, same goes for Lee (with the exception if he makes an insec, then that's my bad). While Vi starts falling off when everyone gets their full items, and sometimes even at that point she doesn't fall off nearly as hard as hecarim/lee sin, since she remains a HUGE threat with insane damage, while being insanely tanky. (I do hate Hecarim/Lee aswell, but I do understand that their early/mid power is a trade off for lack of the late game, yet Vi somehow still remains insanely strong even in late game)
xXG3OXx (EUNE)
: Is this guy really complaining about how "shit" the adcs are bringing the tanks and fighters here? Look, i'm no pro player, just a fresh plat jungle main, but your point here is straight up buffing the adcs who already deal good amount of damage(draven{{champion:119}} , lucian{{champion:236}} , slut cait {{champion:51}} , vayne {{champion:67}} , twitch {{champion:29}} , jhin {{champion:202}}). They are not shit, they are meant to be squishy and be killed fast, that's why everyone can kill them if they can't out-play. Why do you go full damage? Of course you will get one shot if you take full damage. There are masteries in the game and deffensive items in the game, why do you go 18-12-0 everytime? Try switch it up 18-0-12. Take {{item:3053}} , {{item:3814}} ,{{item:3140}} , {{item:3111}} . {{item:3026}} ,{{item:3102}} {{item:3139}} . There are good players and bad players. The good players can adapt while the others stay the same. Do you think i cried in every post about {{champion:203}} (my main) getting shit on by the assassins, getting indirect nerfs and not receiving a buff for so long? NO. I adapted. I took different keystones, different pathing, played other champs. Don't you remember when vayne could actually get a penta with 2-3 items? Oh wait, that was 2 patches ago. You "adc mains" are complaining about getting killed, yet you still play off meta champs and can't do shit or just play the meta champs bad. Oh, how many matches i lost because of a good enemy Caitlyn or Draven. They were good adcs, they knew positioning, they knew who to focus and when to focus them and they didn't need their whole team to ult a Vi ;). Do you think the adc is a role that you have to stay still and click? No, adc means counter play, focusing and means to know mechanics. In my opinion one of the hardest role to master. Now please, stop adding shit replies when you see we are right about you going full dmg. You literally said something about "rushing sterak cage" and that guy didn't mean rushing, he meant add the item as 4th or 5th item. One more think, i noticed your EGO is higher than your SKILL/ELO. Stop telling other they are worse and don't have the right to have an opinion just because you are a boosted dia. TL;DR: Play safer, buy deff items, change the masteries, play meta champs. Thank you for your attention, stay cool{{item:3680}} , don't be toxic{{champion:17}} and stop crying so much .{{item:3070}} ;)
> [{quoted}](name=xXG3OXx,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2sLTkWEK,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2017-01-24T12:47:07.643+0000) > > Is this guy really complaining about how "shit" the adcs are bringing the tanks and fighters here? Look, i'm no pro player, just a fresh plat jungle main, but your point here is straight up buffing the adcs who already deal good amount of damage(draven{{champion:119}} , lucian{{champion:236}} , slut cait {{champion:51}} , vayne {{champion:67}} , twitch {{champion:29}} , jhin {{champion:202}}). They are not shit, they are meant to be squishy and be killed fast, that's why everyone can kill them if they can't out-play. Why do you go full damage? Of course you will get one shot if you take full damage. There are masteries in the game and deffensive items in the game, why do you go 18-12-0 everytime? Try switch it up 18-0-12. Take {{item:3053}} , {{item:3814}} ,{{item:3140}} , {{item:3111}} . {{item:3026}} ,{{item:3102}} {{item:3139}} . There are good players and bad players. The good players can adapt while the others stay the same. Do you think i cried in every post about {{champion:203}} (my main) getting shit on by the assassins, getting indirect nerfs and not receiving a buff for so long? NO. I adapted. I took different keystones, different pathing, played other champs. Don't you remember when vayne could actually get a penta with 2-3 items? Oh wait, that was 2 patches ago. You "adc mains" are complaining about getting killed, yet you still play off meta champs and can't do shit or just play the meta champs bad. Oh, how many matches i lost because of a good enemy Caitlyn or Draven. They were good adcs, they knew positioning, they knew who to focus and when to focus them and they didn't need their whole team to ult a Vi ;). Do you think the adc is a role that you have to stay still and click? No, adc means counter play, focusing and means to know mechanics. In my opinion one of the hardest role to master. Now please, stop adding shit replies when you see we are right about you going full dmg. You literally said something about "rushing sterak cage" and that guy didn't mean rushing, he meant add the item as 4th or 5th item. > > One more think, i noticed your EGO is higher than your SKILL/ELO. Stop telling other they are worse and don't have the right to have an opinion just because you are a boosted dia. > > TL;DR: Play safer, buy deff items, change the masteries, play meta champs. > > Thank you for your attention, stay cool{{item:3680}} , don't be toxic{{champion:17}} and stop crying so much .{{item:3070}} ;) Reach diamond playing ADC's only this season prior to riot doing shit about it, or get the %%%% out. Also, Kindred HAS a way of dealing with those Tanks. ADC's don't have a way of dealing with them. (Vayne exception) And when you have over 100 games in s7 and you're still stuck in Plat V, you're a special kind of monkey. Also mate, I have more games in the ADC role, then you probably have in the ENTIRETY of your ranked games. And that is why my ego is high, and as an ADC main of 3 years, I've found more success in midlane, then in the ADC role in season 7. Wich says A LOT. So, either realize when something HAS no counterplay in your imaginary scenarios. In your elo, you don't even know what 5manning botlane means probably. And when it happens you type "wtf 4 people you should get 5 that's not enough qq" The problem of tanks who have burst damage is IN THE MIDGAME, not the LATE GAME. My mistake for not pointing that out. Midgame starting @ 2 items. Right now the problem with ADC's is that they can't reach their %%%%ing 3rd/4th item, and the game is decided by everyone else, except us. Cause: A) we deal almost no damage to the frontliners who are going to buttrape us and B) we're the squishiest so we get one shot While mage's can get their Zhonya's/Abyssal's/Protobelt and still put out a decent amount of damage, ADC not getting IE/ER + zeal item, deals no damage. If youmuu's attack speed didn't get nerfed, then adc's could try the pen build and see if that bears any success, but since there's no more attack speed that's useless on almost everyone, hence - low damage output. Also every single ADC item is more expensive then every single tank item. (With the exception of zeal items, wich are around the cost of 1 tank item) Yet some tank items, give DAMAGE on top of the stats (hi shitfire cape). ADC's are in a shit spot due to the fact that their items are not gold efficient compared to the tank items.
xXG3OXx (EUNE)
: Is this guy really complaining about how "shit" the adcs are bringing the tanks and fighters here? Look, i'm no pro player, just a fresh plat jungle main, but your point here is straight up buffing the adcs who already deal good amount of damage(draven{{champion:119}} , lucian{{champion:236}} , slut cait {{champion:51}} , vayne {{champion:67}} , twitch {{champion:29}} , jhin {{champion:202}}). They are not shit, they are meant to be squishy and be killed fast, that's why everyone can kill them if they can't out-play. Why do you go full damage? Of course you will get one shot if you take full damage. There are masteries in the game and deffensive items in the game, why do you go 18-12-0 everytime? Try switch it up 18-0-12. Take {{item:3053}} , {{item:3814}} ,{{item:3140}} , {{item:3111}} . {{item:3026}} ,{{item:3102}} {{item:3139}} . There are good players and bad players. The good players can adapt while the others stay the same. Do you think i cried in every post about {{champion:203}} (my main) getting shit on by the assassins, getting indirect nerfs and not receiving a buff for so long? NO. I adapted. I took different keystones, different pathing, played other champs. Don't you remember when vayne could actually get a penta with 2-3 items? Oh wait, that was 2 patches ago. You "adc mains" are complaining about getting killed, yet you still play off meta champs and can't do shit or just play the meta champs bad. Oh, how many matches i lost because of a good enemy Caitlyn or Draven. They were good adcs, they knew positioning, they knew who to focus and when to focus them and they didn't need their whole team to ult a Vi ;). Do you think the adc is a role that you have to stay still and click? No, adc means counter play, focusing and means to know mechanics. In my opinion one of the hardest role to master. Now please, stop adding shit replies when you see we are right about you going full dmg. You literally said something about "rushing sterak cage" and that guy didn't mean rushing, he meant add the item as 4th or 5th item. One more think, i noticed your EGO is higher than your SKILL/ELO. Stop telling other they are worse and don't have the right to have an opinion just because you are a boosted dia. TL;DR: Play safer, buy deff items, change the masteries, play meta champs. Thank you for your attention, stay cool{{item:3680}} , don't be toxic{{champion:17}} and stop crying so much .{{item:3070}} ;)
> [{quoted}](name=xXG3OXx,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2sLTkWEK,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2017-01-24T12:47:07.643+0000) > > Is this guy really complaining about how "shit" the adcs are bringing the tanks and fighters here? Look, i'm no pro player, just a fresh plat jungle main, but your point here is straight up buffing the adcs who already deal good amount of damage(draven{{champion:119}} , lucian{{champion:236}} , slut cait {{champion:51}} , vayne {{champion:67}} , twitch {{champion:29}} , jhin {{champion:202}}). They are not shit, they are meant to be squishy and be killed fast, that's why everyone can kill them if they can't out-play. Why do you go full damage? Of course you will get one shot if you take full damage. There are masteries in the game and deffensive items in the game, why do you go 18-12-0 everytime? Try switch it up 18-0-12. Take {{item:3053}} , {{item:3814}} ,{{item:3140}} , {{item:3111}} . {{item:3026}} ,{{item:3102}} {{item:3139}} . There are good players and bad players. The good players can adapt while the others stay the same. Do you think i cried in every post about {{champion:203}} (my main) getting shit on by the assassins, getting indirect nerfs and not receiving a buff for so long? NO. I adapted. I took different keystones, different pathing, played other champs. Don't you remember when vayne could actually get a penta with 2-3 items? Oh wait, that was 2 patches ago. You "adc mains" are complaining about getting killed, yet you still play off meta champs and can't do shit or just play the meta champs bad. Oh, how many matches i lost because of a good enemy Caitlyn or Draven. They were good adcs, they knew positioning, they knew who to focus and when to focus them and they didn't need their whole team to ult a Vi ;). Do you think the adc is a role that you have to stay still and click? No, adc means counter play, focusing and means to know mechanics. In my opinion one of the hardest role to master. Now please, stop adding shit replies when you see we are right about you going full dmg. You literally said something about "rushing sterak cage" and that guy didn't mean rushing, he meant add the item as 4th or 5th item. > > One more think, i noticed your EGO is higher than your SKILL/ELO. Stop telling other they are worse and don't have the right to have an opinion just because you are a boosted dia. > > TL;DR: Play safer, buy deff items, change the masteries, play meta champs. > > Thank you for your attention, stay cool{{item:3680}} , don't be toxic{{champion:17}} and stop crying so much .{{item:3070}} ;) Yes. And they do damage, really? Let's see... Ninja Tabi's 12% autoattack damage reduction, omen 10% crit reduction, 100 armor = 50% damage reduction. So lets say ADC has 200 damage, IE, and PD. Crit deals 500 damage. Their damage is reduced by 365. So adc CRITS 140 damage. Everyone one of those adc's you've mentioned is useless, and is no real threat, except for Vayne & Twitch. I already go 18/0/12; doesn't help when lvl 6 Lee sin one shots me, when Vi flash ults, into Q and, one shots me. And good luck in those teamfights when you come back with 0/5 from lane after being dove with 0 counterplay to the divers. Now lets add the Maokai's ultimate right here. That's another 20% damage reduction. So that's 92% damage reduction from autoattacks that crit, and 82% damage reduction from autoattacks that don't crit, and that's IF he has 100armor. Meaning crits do 40 damage. #YEEY Now lets do the math of what maokai needs to buy for that kind of damage reduction, and what ADC needs to buy to crit 500. Randuin's omen - 2.9k gold Ninja tabi's - 1.1k gold. Total: 4k gold. Now lets give the same gold to adc. OH LOOK, HE HAS IE + doran's blade! Btw, the math was done on the perception that Maokai in this example, has 100armor. And with Tabi's+Omen he has quite a bit more. And this is why tank's are %%%%ing bullshit. Ninja Tabis/Omen are way too cost efficient. That is why ADC's are dying. Early game you get your warriors enchant+Tabi's, and ADC has an infinity edge or a bf+almost finished crit item. You have around 50% damage reduction, on their already shit damage. And you cannot get Sterak's/edge of night/ GA / mercurial 2nd item, since then, you see, you have NO damage.
: I got to plati in 110 games last season, and i stopped after that only because i had exams to worry about. And you seem awfully clueless so let me give you a lesson and provide my credentials. I have played Vi to excellent effect, i know exactly how the champion works and i´ve been playing her for two seasons. And i have also run several ADC's up to lvl 7. Last season i played trist 7 games and i won 6 out of those in ranked while she was considered useless. I´ve had a 12 games winsteak on kalista and i only lost my 13th game because of an afk. (altho that was some time ago and it was in normals) And Ashe is my 4th most played champ so sit down and i´ll tell you how to deal Vi. According to my understanding the issue people have is that when teamfights start Vi is ulting them and her team moves up and kill whoever Vi ulted. I have seen this from both perspectives, both the vi and the intended target. As a Vi i had a very easy time killing enemy ADC's because a majority of them are dumb as hell, they feel the need to stand on the front of their team or just a step behind them meaning that a simple Q-R will be enough to reach them. My team will then move it and close that already small distance and the target will be dead. The only type of ADC is could not do this to were the true experienced mains. They simply stood back behind their team and waited for me to either engage on someone else or to try and rush them at which point they backed a fairly small distance, allowed me to ulti and then killed me because i was alone in the middle of 3 of them. In all those cases i died alone and greedy as hell if i wasn't extremely fed. And to mention, i began playing ADC long before i played vi and it took me around 5 games to realize that the only thing you needed to do in order to ensure you didn't die from her ulting you was to ensure that she was alone. And i was silver at the time. The backing of strategy is the simplest and most effective means to dealing with her. And that is assuming that you are too lazy to buy a Banshee which renders her ultimate useless against you. Now come back and tell me what exactly a Vi can do alone in the middle of my team? Vi will never get an ADC killed outside her ganks during the laning phase unless she flanks them. And if the ADC get's flanked then that's their fault for not paying attention to such an obvious threat. No ADC main starting from gold would ever get caught having that happen to them. But i only talked about ADC's yes? For mages the solution could not be easier. {{item:3157}} . And if they die because they can't afford to stop to use it then their positioning isn't good enough.
> [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2sLTkWEK,comment-id=00010001000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-23T21:51:32.151+0000) > > I got to plati in 110 games last season, and i stopped after that only because i had exams to worry about. > > And you seem awfully clueless so let me give you a lesson and provide my credentials. > > I have played Vi to excellent effect, i know exactly how the champion works and i´ve been playing her for two seasons. > > And i have also run several ADC's up to lvl 7. Last season i played trist 7 games and i won 6 out of those in ranked while she was considered useless. I´ve had a 12 games winsteak on kalista and i only lost my 13th game because of an afk. (altho that was some time ago and it was in normals) > > And Ashe is my 4th most played champ so sit down and i´ll tell you how to deal Vi. > > According to my understanding the issue people have is that when teamfights start Vi is ulting them and her team moves up and kill whoever Vi ulted. > > I have seen this from both perspectives, both the vi and the intended target. > > As a Vi i had a very easy time killing enemy ADC's because a majority of them are dumb as hell, they feel the need to stand on the front of their team or just a step behind them meaning that a simple Q-R will be enough to reach them. My team will then move it and close that already small distance and the target will be dead. The only type of ADC is could not do this to were the true experienced mains. They simply stood back behind their team and waited for me to either engage on someone else or to try and rush them at which point they backed a fairly small distance, allowed me to ulti and then killed me because i was alone in the middle of 3 of them. In all those cases i died alone and greedy as hell if i wasn't extremely fed. > > And to mention, i began playing ADC long before i played vi and it took me around 5 games to realize that the only thing you needed to do in order to ensure you didn't die from her ulting you was to ensure that she was alone. And i was silver at the time. The backing of strategy is the simplest and most effective means to dealing with her. And that is assuming that you are too lazy to buy a Banshee which renders her ultimate useless against you. > > Now come back and tell me what exactly a Vi can do alone in the middle of my team? Vi will never get an ADC killed outside her ganks during the laning phase unless she flanks them. And if the ADC get's flanked then that's their fault for not paying attention to such an obvious threat. No ADC main starting from gold would ever get caught having that happen to them. > > > But i only talked about ADC's yes? For mages the solution could not be easier. {{item:3157}} . And if they die because they can't afford to stop to use it then their positioning isn't good enough. My problem with her is from an ADC's perspective. She comes bot level 6 90% of the time you're dead because she's level 6 and you're 4/5. Then she waits for her ult cd, goes mid, if she hits Q she doesnt need the ult, if she misses, welp time to click a button that has 800 range. Oh and since most toplaners are immobile, she doesn't need ult to go toplane, so.. She snowballs out of control far too easily, with almost no counterplay. Her damage is way off the charts, for the amount of tankyness she gets. And she's one of the champions who can just lane gank because once she gets in the vision she can Q-flash-R and if your flash is down, you're dead. If it's not, you're alive under the circumstances that the lane is pushed, if you're the one pushing, you're dead anyway in most scenarios. They should either completely rework her unhealthy ultimate, or give her the Assassin's treatment.
: If she goes for your team you can just kill her? She can't ignore you and she can't kill you, easy win. And if she does attack your team first you can just stand at max range so that even if your banshee is down she´ll still fail to kill you since her team will be too far away^^ And that is assuming that somehow, the banshee is down.
> [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2sLTkWEK,comment-id=000100010001000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-23T21:04:26.586+0000) > > If she goes for your team you can just kill her? She can't ignore you and she can't kill you, easy win. > > And if she does attack your team first you can just stand at max range so that even if your banshee is down she´ll still fail to kill you since her team will be too far away^^ > > And that is assuming that somehow, the banshee is down. This is why I dont listen to "unranked" and under plat elo players who have no idea about the game.
Mangekyu (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=SomeOneButNoOne,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2sLTkWEK,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-01-23T16:48:37.280+0000) > > Also, you're unranked, so your words kind of have 0 meaning here. > On top of your normal games mmr sitting in silver What if he was better than you? Had more game knowledge? You can't judge by rank.
> [{quoted}](name=Shélton,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2sLTkWEK,comment-id=000300000001,timestamp=2017-01-23T20:03:56.808+0000) > > What if he was better than you? Had more game knowledge? You can't judge by rank. Yes, you CAN judge by RANK, and that's why RANK exsists. If he had a BETTER game knowledge, he would be higher then the mmr of silver. And he wouldn't propose banshee's to counter Vi. Especialy since that blue smite, takes the banshee's off, while she's in the middle of her animation. Among the mages with 1k+ range.
: So what if it doesn't offer armor? Vi cannot kill you with your entire team behind her unless her ulti hit. And if you are standing far enough in front as a ADC to be hit by something like ashe W or Xerath Q then you are already too deep in. ( and xerath Q has more range than Ashe W)
> [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2sLTkWEK,comment-id=0001000100010000,timestamp=2017-01-23T19:12:16.055+0000) > > So what if it doesn't offer armor? Vi cannot kill you with your entire team behind her unless her ulti hit. And if you are standing far enough in front as a ADC to be hit by something like ashe W or Xerath Q then you are already too deep in. ( and xerath Q has more range than Ashe W) Or she can go and destroy your entire team with her team while you can't get in 800 range of her. Nice tactics.
Infernape (EUW)
: >What counterplay is there to Vi pressing R-auto-E and one shotting you? {{item:3053}} Is pretty damn useful as preventing burst damage from killing you. Secondly, you have a team. If she ults you and you're surrounded by your team, the chances are she's going to regret that decision. Once she dives someone, either she dies or you die. >Also, why did they nerf Jhin, Sivir, Ashe then? Explain those 3, don't just QQ about vayne who is one of the 2 half-decent ADC's here. 6.17 (the patch they all got nerfed) was aimed at Worlds. "champion diversity in the pro scene’s a bit more homogenous than we’d like to see, so we’re looking to crack things open. This entails setting our sights on some of the omnipresent picks (Rek’Sai, Gragas, the **utility marksmen**") >Oh my god, they're nerfing Colossus! This means Vi won't get a huge ass shield after she one shots me! If Colossus was the reason she jumped to a >50% win rate (which it was), logically nerfing the one thing that made her strong will no longer make her strong. >No, Ziggs is played botlane because he a) outpushes adc's b) actually scales into midgame c) is safe due to his range The whole point of Ziggs bot lane is to do the one thing an ADC can't do as quickly as Ziggs which taking down towers. You sacrifice consistent damage for objective taking. >Also, you're unranked, so your words kind of have 0 meaning here Ad hominem is a great way to get your point across. Well done! >On top of your normal games mmr sitting in silver. Do you really think I care about my normal MMR?
> [{quoted}](name=FurorDivinus27,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2sLTkWEK,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-01-23T17:42:45.618+0000) > > {{item:3053}} Is pretty damn useful as preventing burst damage from killing you. Secondly, you have a team. If she ults you and you're surrounded by your team, the chances are she's going to regret that decision. Once she dives someone, either she dies or you die. > > 6.17 (the patch they all got nerfed) was aimed at Worlds. > > "champion diversity in the pro scene’s a bit more homogenous than we’d like to see, so we’re looking to crack things open. This entails setting our sights on some of the omnipresent picks (Rek’Sai, Gragas, the **utility marksmen**") > > If Colossus was the reason she jumped to a >50% win rate (which it was), logically nerfing the one thing that made her strong will no longer make her strong. > a) outpushes adc's > b) actually scales into midgame > c) is safe due to his range > > The whole point of Ziggs bot lane is to do the one thing an ADC can't do as quickly as Ziggs which taking down towers. You sacrifice consistent damage for objective taking. > > Ad hominem is a great way to get your point across. Well done! > > Do you really think I care about my normal MMR? Yes, rush sterak's first item. That way you'll be usefull, great idea! The whole point of Ziggs is that in midgame he still deals more damage then ADC, and one shots the same one, while being safe, on top of killing towers fast, and having consistant damage from his Q on 2sec cd. Vi had over 52% winrate even prior to colossus. And my point is, until you play with/against SKILLED players, your point doesn't exsist. A shit Vi, without a brain is going to be useless. A Vi who has map awarness and knows how to press R, is going to destroy the game. Since her mechanics are pretty much non-exsistent (besides landing her Q & auto resetting her E).
: She has a jungler, and a good support. How do you dumpster her now? **And why in the world would a tank shredder take out 80% of squishys HP with one AA?** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULtLnwrYHPo You call this BS balanced?
> [{quoted}](name=SMURF HENEKTON,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2sLTkWEK,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2017-01-23T17:37:33.246+0000) > > She has a jungler, and a good support. > > How do you dumpster her now? **And why in the world would a tank shredder take out 80% of squishys HP with one AA?** > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULtLnwrYHPo You call this BS balanced? In that case, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29hSwIdHdA8 Draven is imbalanced! Riot pls! He one shot them! How is that balanced!
: I am quite confident when i state that i don't think any mage has any ability outside an ultimate that posses such a range. And if the banshee is spent blocking a ziggs ultimate then congratulations^^ You've avoided like 800-1000 damage that he threw from his base because it felt fanciful to do so. On a more serious note, playing against Vi is a headache and more often than not you'll have to stand way back behind your team so that she'll have to charge through them to get you. And even then her team won't be around to follow up and the ziggs ulti will be spent so you won't die^^ But in lane.....RIP the second base because she is gona ram her guantlets all the way through.
> [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2sLTkWEK,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2017-01-23T17:08:08.816+0000) > > I am quite confident when i state that i don't think any mage has any ability outside an ultimate that posses such a range. > > And if the banshee is spent blocking a ziggs ultimate then congratulations^^ You've avoided like 800-1000 damage that he threw from his base because it felt fanciful to do so. > > On a more serious note, playing against Vi is a headache and more often than not you'll have to stand way back behind your team so that she'll have to charge through them to get you. And even then her team won't be around to follow up and the ziggs ulti will be spent so you won't die^^ > > But in lane.....RIP the second base because she is gona ram her guantlets all the way through. There is a lot of mages with insane ranges, that can proc banshee's from far away, also there are some tanks even who have abilities wich opt to around 1k range...
: First: You should inform yourself more. Vi is NOT a tank. She is a diver, that is a fighter subclass. I don't know why the subclass system is so hard to understand for most people.... Second: There is a nerf for Courage of the Colossus on the PBE, which is the main reason why Vi is so strong at the moment. Before that keystone mastery got introduced, her winrate was fine and she wasn't a balance issue for a long time. They probably want to see the spot she is sitting in after these nerfs and will nerf her further if necessary.
> [{quoted}](name=SatomiKun,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2sLTkWEK,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-01-23T16:44:25.966+0000) > > First: You should inform yourself more. Vi is NOT a tank. She is a diver, that is a fighter subclass. I don't know why the subclass system is so hard to understand for most people.... > > Second: There is a nerf for Courage of the Colossus on the PBE, which is the main reason why Vi is so strong at the moment. Before that keystone mastery got introduced, her winrate was fine and she wasn't a balance issue for a long time. They probably want to see the spot she is sitting in after these nerfs and will nerf her further if necessary. No, Nocturne is a Diver, Vi, is a %%%%ing Tank. Diver is the one who goes balls deep on one person, and has no escape. Vi goes in on one person, kills it, and casualy escapes with her Q. There for, she is a one-shotting-1-offensive-item-tank-bs.
Infernape (EUW)
: What counterplay was there to a Vayne, pressing Q and taking half your health with a single auto attack? Secondly, Vi's getting indirectly nerfed next patch. Riot's nerfing Courage of the Colossus pretty hard, and they're going to wait and see what effect it has on her before touching her kit. I have never seen a Vi oneshot someone unless they built full AD, and their target was on little to no health not to mention her Q IS a skillshot lmao Thirdly, Ziggs is played bot lane because of his passive, Lich Bane and his ability to execute towers. So where you're pulling that from is unbeknown to me.
> [{quoted}](name=FurorDivinus27,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2sLTkWEK,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-01-23T16:31:29.181+0000) > > What counterplay was there to a Vayne, pressing Q and taking half your health with a single auto attack? > > Secondly, Vi's getting indirectly nerfed next patch. Riot's nerfing Courage of the Colossus pretty hard, and they're going to wait and see what effect it has on her before touching her kit. I have never seen a Vi oneshot someone unless they built full AD, and their target was on little to no health not to mention her Q IS a skillshot lmao > > Thirdly, Ziggs is played bot lane because of his passive, Lich Bane and his ability to execute towers. So where you're pulling that from is unbeknown to me. Also, counterplay to vayne is to dumpster the shit out of her in lane. Since you know, her pre-2 items phase is somewhere between a dumpster, and a cow turd.
: Doesn't banshee prevent her ulti from doing the knockup part? Why doesn't anyone build that item :c
> [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2sLTkWEK,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-01-23T16:44:08.503+0000) > > Doesn't banshee prevent her ulti from doing the knockup part? Why doesn't anyone build that item :c Because she is not %%%%%%ed to engage until somebody pops your banshee's from 1500 units away.
Infernape (EUW)
: What counterplay was there to a Vayne, pressing Q and taking half your health with a single auto attack? Secondly, Vi's getting indirectly nerfed next patch. Riot's nerfing Courage of the Colossus pretty hard, and they're going to wait and see what effect it has on her before touching her kit. I have never seen a Vi oneshot someone unless they built full AD, and their target was on little to no health not to mention her Q IS a skillshot lmao Thirdly, Ziggs is played bot lane because of his passive, Lich Bane and his ability to execute towers. So where you're pulling that from is unbeknown to me.
> [{quoted}](name=FurorDivinus27,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2sLTkWEK,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-01-23T16:31:29.181+0000) > > What counterplay was there to a Vayne, pressing Q and taking half your health with a single auto attack? > > Secondly, Vi's getting indirectly nerfed next patch. Riot's nerfing Courage of the Colossus pretty hard, and they're going to wait and see what effect it has on her before touching her kit. I have never seen a Vi oneshot someone unless they built full AD, and their target was on little to no health not to mention her Q IS a skillshot lmao > > Thirdly, Ziggs is played bot lane because of his passive, Lich Bane and his ability to execute towers. So where you're pulling that from is unbeknown to me. What counterplay is there to Vi pressing R-auto-E and one shotting you? Also, why did they nerf Jhin, Sivir, Ashe then? Explain those 3, don't just QQ about vayne who is one of the 2 half-decent ADC's here. Oh my god, they're nerfing Colossus! This means Vi won't get a huge ass shield after she one shots me! Yey! No, Ziggs is played botlane because he a) outpushes adc's b) actually scales into midgame c) is safe due to his range Also, you're unranked, so your words kind of have 0 meaning here. On top of your normal games mmr sitting in silver.
Rioter Comments
: Tahm cannot carry you out of the ult, but can eat you in the ult and stay in the ult, thus making you invulnerable. Sion, while ulting, is unstoppable, thus even knockbacks like Camille R used on an ally will not knock him back. And no, it's not the same thing, Teemo "counters" adcs, yet almost all of the ADCs have some other way to deal damage outside their autoattacks. Camille has her W only (and that's an utility tool, not dmg) Everything else is hardcountered by blinds. There is counterplay other than trying to escape a place you cannot escape from. I get your point. Your supports are useless pieces of trash, your teammates pick damage dealers only and that's why Camille feels OP. Same as Vayne. Brutally OP against certain champions. Absolutely worthless against others. Game begins at champion select. Playing ranked? Ban and counterpick. Playing normals? Do not whine on boards. Every Normals game is filled with 2 Yasuos and 2 Camilles. Just pick accordingly.
> [{quoted}](name=Prugar Senpai,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=fR9Tzgty,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-27T09:07:09.573+0000) > > Tahm cannot carry you out of the ult, but can eat you in the ult and stay in the ult, thus making you invulnerable. > > Sion, while ulting, is unstoppable, thus even knockbacks like Camille R used on an ally will not knock him back. > > And no, it's not the same thing, Teemo "counters" adcs, yet almost all of the ADCs have some other way to deal damage outside their autoattacks. > Camille has her W only (and that's an utility tool, not dmg) > Everything else is hardcountered by blinds. > > There is counterplay other than trying to escape a place you cannot escape from. > > I get your point. Your supports are useless pieces of trash, your teammates pick damage dealers only and that's why Camille feels OP. > > Same as Vayne. > Brutally OP against certain champions. > Absolutely worthless against others. > > Game begins at champion select. > Playing ranked? Ban and counterpick. > Playing normals? Do not whine on boards. Every Normals game is filled with 2 Yasuos and 2 Camilles. Just pick accordingly. Saying a champion counters another champion IS NOT counterplay. With that logic, Yasuo on release WASN'T op. The nerfs were not needed, Zed easily destroyed him in lane if they both dedicated the same amount of time to the champ, Annie also steamrolled him with 1 proper gank, so that means that Yasuo never should've been nerfed? If a champion FORCES you to pick another CHAMPION to be able to survive/deal with him, that is NOT counterplay. And also there's only ONE blind in the game (Teemo). Ashe isn't a good example of high skill cap. Sivir would be a better one. Also, you forgot one thing. Ashe has range. Lee sin doesn't. Wich means, she gets to shoot him, before he gets to deal any damage. She also has a perma slow (self peel) that's around 60% atm if you crit, she has her ultimate for pick potential/peel. Lee sin is strong vs Melle's due to his ultimate's insane damage atm, wich already got nerfed on the PBE since he was getting out of hand. And also, no, the more mobility you have, does not make the champion easier to play. Example being, that you will need to use your mobility to get in, and after you've used your mobility, there are only 2-5 champs who can get out of it using their in-built mobility. Also, most of the mobile champions are squishy. For example, if you compare Lee sin, to a proper tank (Sion/Malphite/Amumu/Sejuani/Maokai) you will notice that they're less mobile, yet are far more tanky, and bring more CC to the table. I still disagree on the similar powerlevel when played to the max potential. I think that a champion (For example Annie) who require rather low amount of skill, or thought process, should get lesser rewards, then somebody who requires more. Lee sin has far more counterplay, and has a higher skill-cap. At the moment, he is a little bit overtuned on the damage part, but after next patch, he will be in the right place, where he is high-risk high-reward, with high counterplay. Also, Lee sin has 2 "gapcloser" but if he is out of wards, or he misses his Q he is useless, so that is conditional. Or if tank properly stands in the frontline and cockblocks him. Camille has a parkour version 2.0 wich means she can flank far easier, she has more in-built damage, and she scaless good into the late game, compared to lee sin, who is quite the opposite, he is strong early-mid game, after that he will either insec their carries into your team, or be useless. Unless he's full AD, then he'll most likely just be useless and end up one shot by a mage/3shot by an AD carry. Also lee sin DOES run out of energy if you don't use his passive properly. That passive is there for a reason. He also cannot improve his energy cap or energy regen (unless you take those runes, then...just not worth it, that shit's could be worth only on Zed, although after the "rework" it wouldn't be worth it due to his W returning more energy, and him being even higher risk that he needs to get a kill to start dealing osme real damage esp after the lethality "rework") Also, if you think that any ADC deals damage without their autoattacks (besides Varus/Ezreal/Corki (who is not even adc anymore since he's trash until level 11/16 so it's better to bring him out on midlane), you haven't played ADC much, have ya? Blinded, ad-carries damage gets reduced by 90+%. Also even if Tahm ate you inside the ult, and stood inside their ap carry, or assassin can stand on standby to one shot you as an AD-carry/Ap-carry (ap carries have more chance to survive due to zhonya's though), but an AD carry is 90% dead in that situation, if the game is even. Since whoever is eaten, their location is predictable at the point of spitting out, especialy due to camille ultimate. Also, tahm is sitting on a 47,5% winrate, and lets say you pick him to counter the camille ultimate, you lose out on a better/more viable pick/stronger pick. Do you get what I'm saying? Edit: This is not based on normals. And Camille does get through pick/ban phase sometimes, since you don't get to ban every single game, and some people don't realize her potentials, sadly.
: Requiring skill should never be an excuse to giving this way higher amount of powerlevel. Camille feels like a squishier/more mobile version of Irelia. A melee bruiser with a stun and dangerously high melee-range damage. Yes, i am aware i used "melee" twice, since this is Camille's main weakness. She is pretty simple to play, so i'm really not that surprised by the winrate. Also Zed doesn't really feel like an issue nowadays. It's always Yasuo, sometimes a good Lee, a Tryndamere (maybe I'm just bad but wtf are you supposed to do to counter this guy?) or a Vayne. I have not yet seen a Camille that would carry the game alone.
And also, a champion who requires no skill, should have lower power level then a champion who does require skill, and is mastered.
: Weird that 90% of champs can't do shit about her, yet like.....100% of my support pool can do pretty much a LOT against Camille. Soraka heals a lot and silences the corner of her ult her ADC is hiding in, that way - no second part of Q, no true damage, ADC lives Nami can stun her, twice. Camille is untargetable during her ult animation....but before she does that, she doesn't lock my ADC. Taric can stun her, shield, heal....and in dire situations cast invulnerability. Janna can knock her away and tornado her during her E animation. Poppy sup....don't let me get started how hard Poppy sup deals with Camille. Sion sup can charge Q over the corner of the ult your ADC is hiding in. Also his ult makes him unstoppable. Not even Camille ult can knock him away. Tahm Kench eats the carry, gg wp. ....what is the problem? Are supports in your games that retarded? Or do they all play Zyra and Brand?
> [{quoted}](name=Prugar Senpai,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=fR9Tzgty,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-22T21:33:27.045+0000) > > Weird that 90% of champs can't do shit about her, yet like.....100% of my support pool can do pretty much a LOT against Camille. > Soraka heals a lot and silences the corner of her ult her ADC is hiding in, that way - no second part of Q, no true damage, ADC lives > Nami can stun her, twice. Camille is untargetable during her ult animation....but before she does that, she doesn't lock my ADC. > Taric can stun her, shield, heal....and in dire situations cast invulnerability. > Janna can knock her away and tornado her during her E animation. > Poppy sup....don't let me get started how hard Poppy sup deals with Camille. > Sion sup can charge Q over the corner of the ult your ADC is hiding in. Also his ult makes him unstoppable. Not even Camille ult can knock him away. > Tahm Kench eats the carry, gg wp. > > ....what is the problem? Are supports in your games that retarded? > Or do they all play Zyra and Brand? Still. Champions. Not actual. Counterplay. And no, Tahm can't carry you out of her ult, sion DOES get knocked out AND if he gets ulted he cant escape it either, neither can tahm ult. Go watch some videos on how camille ult works, and what people had tried to escape it, even a TF ult DOES NOT get out of camille ultimate. That is literaly like saying "Oh adc's are useless, Teemo coutners them all dude, he just presses Q and they're all useless 0 dmg, teemo is op, you should have teemo every game to make a game 4v5 cause adc is useless. ^Get my point?
: Well, maybe not specific champions but definitely a champion class. Camille is weak to peelers. That DOES count as counterplay, right?
> [{quoted}](name=Prugar Senpai,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=fR9Tzgty,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-22T19:00:45.571+0000) > > Well, maybe not specific champions but definitely a champion class. > > Camille is weak to peelers. > > That DOES count as counterplay, right? She's countered only by knock-away champs. Peelers cant do shit in the circle... And remember, she's untargetable durring the ult animation :p And that's conditional counterplay... a.k.a. champ counters champ; While 90% of other champs can't do shit about it, sadly.
: Suddenly Teemo support seems like a viable choice, since Camille is super-susceptible to blinds. Also Shen support with the dodge field. If you can't hit it, no amount of true damage can help her. Also, i have had quite the success making Camille cry using Taric support.
> [{quoted}](name=Prugar Senpai,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=fR9Tzgty,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-22T18:20:36.990+0000) > > Suddenly Teemo support seems like a viable choice, since Camille is super-susceptible to blinds. > Also Shen support with the dodge field. > > If you can't hit it, no amount of true damage can help her. > > Also, i have had quite the success making Camille cry using Taric support. Picking champions to counter something does not mean it has counterplay...
: Requiring skill should never be an excuse to giving this way higher amount of powerlevel. Camille feels like a squishier/more mobile version of Irelia. A melee bruiser with a stun and dangerously high melee-range damage. Yes, i am aware i used "melee" twice, since this is Camille's main weakness. She is pretty simple to play, so i'm really not that surprised by the winrate. Also Zed doesn't really feel like an issue nowadays. It's always Yasuo, sometimes a good Lee, a Tryndamere (maybe I'm just bad but wtf are you supposed to do to counter this guy?) or a Vayne. I have not yet seen a Camille that would carry the game alone.
I've had a little issues with Lee lately (early-mid game, if he pops off), Vayne quite rarely (unless lee pops off and he does it on botlane against the enemy vayne then feelsbadman) otherwise most vayne's are typical useless 30minutes, then 3hit everything. Last 2 camille's I've played against solo carried my games, and if you think she's squishier then Irelia...think again. She has far more "sustain" then Irelia if you use the same builds. Look at her skills and you'll understand (passive/W) + bonus untargetability (Fiora W too op? Here's a Fiora W 2.0 that traps you inside and deals % current hp damage like botrk max rank).. I really think they've outdone themself on Camille, especialy since they've done an entire rooster rework to increse "counterplay" and then they make something that has none... Also, she is MELEE, but she has enough MOBILITY to catch you off guard from huge range, and if you're range, most of the time you're squishy. Meaning...bye bye little fella.
: You, i like you. You can argue. OK. Rank 1 ultimate is not that different, rank 3 is what drives me nuts. When you are a squishy that is in position to fight 1v1, i'd argue that free crits are worse than true damage, since you are not building much armor anyways. Camille has a shield, while Yasuo has a shield and also potential invulnerability. Yasuo's mobility and CC is tied to minions and potentially allies with knockups, Camille's mobility and CC is tied to walls. Sometimes one is deadlier, sometimes it's the other. Camille is much more predictable though. Line skillshots (after their grab) hit them 100%. Lux and Morgana are super good against Camille (that's only good when your support tries to help you tho) Maybe i am just biased but i believe that the windwall and Yasuo's unpredictability is far worse than "just" being unable to escape. You can at least retaliate against Camille.
> [{quoted}](name=Prugar Senpai,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=fR9Tzgty,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-17T10:57:32.916+0000) > > You, i like you. You can argue. > OK. Rank 1 ultimate is not that different, rank 3 is what drives me nuts. > > When you are a squishy that is in position to fight 1v1, i'd argue that free crits are worse than true damage, since you are not building much armor anyways. > > Camille has a shield, while Yasuo has a shield and also potential invulnerability. > Yasuo's mobility and CC is tied to minions and potentially allies with knockups, Camille's mobility and CC is tied to walls. Sometimes one is deadlier, sometimes it's the other. > Camille is much more predictable though. Line skillshots (after their grab) hit them 100%. Lux and Morgana are super good against Camille (that's only good when your support tries to help you tho) > > Maybe i am just biased but i believe that the windwall and Yasuo's unpredictability is far worse than "just" being unable to escape. > You can at least retaliate against Camille. You can retaliate to yasuo if you position correctly, and also I've forgotten the most annoying thing about camille is on top of everything she has, they gave her a Fiora W on her ultimate. Meaning if she times it well, she's invulnurable, and kicks everyone from your team away from you, while you're left alone to get gangbanged until the knock up fades (0,5-1sec) Also, you can assume yasuo's damage, while camille's is unpredictable to be fair. 2 %hp scalling spells, on top of true damage, with a shield, means she can go off-tank and still one shot you as a squishy in the backline. Her W is avoidable though and offers counterplay but that's not the problem I have with her, it's the fact that for 4 seconds you're stuck in an area, and to be fair, trading an ADC for a bruiser in late game is completely worth it, since the enemy team loses out on a LOT of potential dps. And with True damage (that hit me 900 this game I've just played), she was going as a bruiser. (Tri force->def item->hydra->def) She was practicaly unkillable, and just to expand on how unkillable she was I was a 4,5 item yasuo, with a lee sin & zyra, and she's traded 1:1 by bursting Lee (who had around 3k hp, with 1 armor item; mr boots); She's just been released and has 50+% winrate. She's literaly freelo at this point, in my opinion they should consider allowance of her ult to be interupted instead of her being untargetable durring it. And hinder the E cd' a bit (like they've made Zed fair by giving you more opportunity to catch him without an escape). I've literaly been wishing to play against a Zed then Camille. And there's just not enough bans to ban all the "very very low" counterplay champions. (Syndra/Annie in my opinion, on top of camille) And her shield is just...bullshit. They should've given it a flat amount like yasuo's instead of max hp scalling...it's better then poppy's atm... In my personal opinion, both Yasuo & Camille should get reworked. Since I have an account where I OTP Yasuo, and he is insanely strong in most situations, quite hard to outplay, and if he gets ahead and doesn't have the "god-syndrome" you're fucked. While Camille, requires far less skill, and has far less counterplay... And even if you do have the "god-syndrome (lee sin syndrome)", you still get a freebie on whoever you ult and with her E mobility (parkour 2.0) she can get onto the backline insanely easily with the same methods talon uses with the Parkour. She's overall just...one of riots biggest mistakes. What tops me though is riot "reworking" assassins to have counterplay, and then introduce an "assassin" basicly who has none, wich makes no goddamn sense...{{champion:32}} {{item:3073}} Feelsbadman :(
HeresyHorus (EUNE)
: i dont mind gutting the crap out of all mages but only after riot make adcs aa : 1- **_skillshots_** 2- have **_turn rates_** 3- cant do **_+1200 damage to squishies on 0 cd with 0 resources_** in other words once riot make marksmen a true dps role and not the "burst+dps+semi tank+ utility" monsters they are now we can adjust mages burst if they are not giving enough time to react because right now if u dont insta burst the adc they wil insta burst u and life steal all the lesser damage done to them
> [{quoted}](name=HeresyHorus,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=v8gbLLAI,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-12-09T11:33:17.318+0000) > > i dont mind gutting the crap out of all mages but only after riot make adcs aa : > > 1- **_skillshots_** > > 2- have **_turn rates_** > > 3- cant do **_+1200 damage to squishies on 0 cd with 0 resources_** > > in other words once riot make marksmen a true dps role and not the "burst+dps+semi tank+ utility" monsters they are now we can adjust mages burst if they are not giving enough time to react because right now if u dont insta burst the adc they wil insta burst u and life steal all the lesser damage done to them In exchange for dealing 700* damage by right clicking, that Marksman is useless for the first 25-30 minutes of the game compared to literaly everyone else in it.
Gr8m8er (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Cancer Cavalier ,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=v8gbLLAI,comment-id=00000003,timestamp=2016-12-09T07:55:45.230+0000) > > Thinking that you can counter Annie burst by building defense is already a mistake i think... at least on ranged champions. You need offense yourself and just stay away from her. xD > > Your tactic shouldn't include tanking her burst. Obviously, but OP said he gets one shot by annie's and syndra's at level 6 even with a neg cloak and hexdrinker. If that is indeed the case then he's probably losing lane extremely hard and down a couple levels at least. And yes, if you're playing mid and want to beat her in a 1v1, it is best to go some defensive items not just "stay away" from her.
> [{quoted}](name=Gr8m8er,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=v8gbLLAI,comment-id=000000030000,timestamp=2016-12-09T10:13:00.417+0000) > > Obviously, but OP said he gets one shot by annie's and syndra's at level 6 even with a neg cloak and hexdrinker. If that is indeed the case then he's probably losing lane extremely hard and down a couple levels at least. And yes, if you're playing mid and want to beat her in a 1v1, it is best to go some defensive items not just "stay away" from her. With either a Neg cloak (ap) or hexdrinker (ad) depending on if I'm laning as an AD or AP midlaner. Not both, that would be a huge waste of gold & stats.
Scrinnid (EUNE)
: Syndra no counterplay? You do know how many spells you need to get hit by to be oneshotted by syndra R? You need to be basically hit by half combo or you literally fed syndra/let her free farm. This has nothing to do her being op
> [{quoted}](name=Scrinnid,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=v8gbLLAI,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-12-09T08:09:56.171+0000) > > Syndra no counterplay? You do know how many spells you need to get hit by to be oneshotted by syndra R? You need to be basically hit by half combo or you literally fed syndra/let her free farm. This has nothing to do her being op Yep, as an AD carry I need to be hit with all these skill shots (R).
: It's on a long cooldown (like, seriously long. Almost as long as the summonner spells). And the things you can do against it really mostly consist of counterpicking. Tristana can shoot her out. Vayne can shoot her out. (Vayne being the prime popular pick nowadays) Alistar can knock her out. Janna can knock her out. Tahm Kench can save you. Jayce can knock her back. Taric can ult you. Zyra's ult is as wide as Camille's. She either dodges the ult to free you or gets knocked up+bursted. Gragas can knock her out (don't judge, Gragas sup is a valid pick) Poppy can knock her out (yes, Poppy). Zilean can ress you. There are "some" counterplay options i just got after thinking a while. Most of them involve teamwork, which is the main part of how to counter Camille's 1v1 me bro ult. Also - Riot seems to take a different approach now when designing champions. They seem to be much more OK with broken abilities, as long as they are "unique". Camille really has only 1 "broken" ability, the rest is manageable. Let's look at Ivern - his ability to give gapcloser to allies is also pretty much "broken", however when on a more support-ish character, the broken abilities don't shine as much. Because - let's look at Yasuo - He might not have the single 100% no counterplay mechanic, however he has the power spread over his entire kit - His Windwall is broken, his knockup synergy is broken, his free stats are broken. Maybe not as Broken as Camille's ult individually but when you add up everything...yep. Mobility. Damage. CC. Synergies. Utility. No mana restrictions. Free stats. No cooldowns (Yasuo can ult like 4-5 times before Camille ults the second time) .....Is this really the time to be whining about Camille?
Yasuo can ult 1,5times for Camile's one ult rank 1. Yasuo's ultimate is conditioned, camille's is unavoidable. Camille has free attack speed, current hp shred, shield, and her E is almost like parkour, except in terms of mobillity better, in terms of CD worse. Camille has no cd on her Q aswell as yasuo. (when capped cdr/attack speed) Camille Q has true damage, while yasuo's Q has condition to proc his ultimate (knock up 1second) Yasuo windwall is broken, but can be played around, Camille's ultimate can't. Camille's shield > yasuo's because it scales with max hp Camille has 2 autoattack resets, same as yasuo except her Q has less/same CD as his with capped CDR/AS. Yasuo has infinite mobility that is conditioned by minions/monsters/champions Look at the parkour part for camille. Yasuo has no CC except for a knock up that can be combined with his ultimate that gives 50% bonus armor pen on crits (chained CC is around 2seconds and durring the ultimate Yasuo is "cc'd" aswell. Camille's E stuns 1 second, ultimate lasts 4 seconds, W slow lasts 2 seconds. Yasuo -> has no sustain Camille -> W is sustain Yasuo shield -> can be proc'd whenever it's full Camille -> has to go in to get the shield meaning she chooses when she gets it. Yasuo shield lasts for 1 second Camille shield lasts for 3 seconds. Yep, it's time to whine about Camille...
: Camille
Camille's ultimate isn't really unique though. It's literaly Jarvan's ultimate on steroids... And it does synergise pretty well with her kit tbh. Knocking everyone back for 1second (maybe 0,5 not 100% sure) but makes it enough time to potentialy burst the target before your allies get to help you. And for her 1v1 situation is ideal, due to her passive giving her free stats (shield), her Q giving her 2 autoattack resets (I know the true dmg part is on 1,5sec cd) but she can chain it with the stun and literaly offer you no counterplay to it. Vayne is permabanned, and Tristana is currently one of the weakest ADC's in the game... Kench can't get you out of the ult btw, there is NO leaving it unless you throw camille out, and the combo's are insane, like a malphite has a free opening and that ADC/APC can't flash/dodge it in any way (for example malphite). I dislike Annie's concept due to offering little counterplay, but sadly, Annie's kit is more fair then the camille's... (In terms of counterplay) And Camille as a concept seems like a really cool champion (haven't played her myself, dislike playing champions upon release due to most of them being abnormaly broken with the exceptions of Ivern who was UP) And she's probably going to end up Azir'd & Kalista'd after competitive play & high elo soloq finds a way to abuse her power. Don't see a reason why they couldn't they give her an ultimate to fit her playstyle, something that she can make plays with, or synergise it with her abilities for a combo, instead of giving her an "on click you're fucked bitch" that's probably going to cause some balance issues... She is currently very mobile, while having quite a lot of utility (W slow, E stun + ulti box) and her ultimate doesn't have too high of a cooldown if you compare it's power to for example rengar's ultimate... Camille ultimate is 10seconds higher cd, but offers NO counterplay to it, besides champion counters (and Lee, her main counter is getting nerfed next patch probably) While Rengar has 10s lower CD, but his ultimate involves insane amount of counterplay considering he is no longer stealthed but camo'd... I think the best thing would be to rework her entire ultimate, and make it something that offers counterplay, yet works similarly instead of her being able to literaly get 100% guaranteed kills if she roams with her ultimate ready... Also the another portion of her kit that I think is a little overloaded is her passive shield or atleast the E's attack speed. Both of those are "Free stats", and her E resembles the old fiora E on steroids. Her kit is overloaded, she doesn't have a designed role, if she were ranged she'd fit even the ADC lol. She has a shield - to make her tanky, 2 autoattack resets (with true damage) for burst, she has a max% hp damage ability, that heals & slows, "parkour" 2.0 that stuns, and adds attack speed, with Jarvan ultimate on steroids, wich in late game offers a free botrk passive, that ofc - deals magic damage while everything else scales with physical... She can also be played as bursty bruiser Assassin Full tank And is efficient as all 3. Also, if you say "yeyeye but her winrate is 46%" Ryze has had a winrate of 43% for ages and he's still insanely strong, so keep that in mind.
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SomeOneButNoOne

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