: Matchmaking issues resulting in large skill disparity
It is because matchmaking is bad, how it calculates mmr is bad and how it implements duo is bad. Your team had {{champion:498}} adc duo with{{champion:40}} and to compensate for the advantage voice chat gives, certain mmr is added. Matchmaking is bad because instead of giving fair games, it is inclined more towards giving games faster and because the mmr isn't visible we can't actually check whether both teams had same mmr. Always check team mates' profiles during champ select and dodge games if your metrics and their metrics have big gap-like +/-2 ranks, low level(like 30 and no indication of smurf), poor win ratio, less number of ranked games, autofills,kda, kp, dmg, vspm.....and any similar metric you like. In-fact if they give an option to get fair matches, with us setting such prerequisites for longer queue times it will be far better. Though I don't buy the consolation comment of "MMR is same", unless there is transparency in the system and better matchmaking, dodging such games is better because it preserves mmr and mental state, losing only 3 or 10 LP in place of 12-22 LP. Don't get frustrated and gl hf {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
Shamose (EUW)
: When are normals gonna be normals again?
Unless there is some sort of transfer of mmr (preferably solo>flex>normals) across different queues, normals (and flex) won't be normal. It is actually not fun to play because the casual game(or the autopilot game) of a diamond player is above try hard levels of an average league player and on the brighter side try to ask higher elo players regarding some game improvements.
: Riot, place Newbie players in Iron-4 zero LP! Remove placement games for new accounts!
1) Agreed. Most of the new players actually lack experience of ranked and think it will be same as normals. They should actually wait for more time and learn it better instead of going into ranked as soon as they hit level 30. Even now I am learning things and it is just too bad to assume that level 30 players can learn the game better to play at low gold/high silver elo. 2) Debatable, but agree. 3) No. Placement games helps players to climb faster and removing it means it will take longer to climb. Placing at Iron 4 also introduces same problem. 4) I have seen trolls in champ select and in-game, who are high leveled and sometimes even higher ranked than me. One of my biggest shocks was seeing trolls in gold+ because I assumed that once I climb above Silver there won't be trolls. Account buying needs to be policed better, but unless there is something like two step authentication with mobile number it is hard to stop. 5) This is because matchmaking is bad-inclined towards giving games faster and mmr doesn't have performance metrics. I remember seeing players who performed well in placements go like 3-7 and those who performed bad go like 7-3. This is why the MMR estimation overall goes very bad, since everything from start is based on getting good rng/luck. I agree with you on supports being bad, despite being a supp main myself because most of them don't know what to do. I have seen players starting with {{item:1056}} on supp and ward very little, even if they've the supp item and access to more wards. Major reason is that support is the least preferred role and most of the supp players don't even spare a min to search for supp items if it isn't given in the recommended section. On top of this players generally underrate vision and don't even see mini-map, which is hard to change habit despite being on a role which is known for vision control. I was also not knowing many things at start, but after I started ranked I started learning this-from the free resources in boards, youtube, reddit and discord. I don't play other roles often, but when I do I see that as a mid laner or apc I have more wards and more vs than the supp, which simply shows that those who play supp are simply trolling. p.s: if you play adc, find a supp duo.
Majorahm (EUW)
: games keep starting after closing the client
Yes, it is a known issue and sadly there is no fix for it. Iirc this came up after the new client came and let's hope they fix in within span of 20 skins.
: how can that disgusting champ even go through pbe. any monkey with more than 40 iq can see she is broken
> how can that disgusting champ even go through pbe. New champ and skin=more sales.
: Well I basically clinged to that. After the "First Win of a Day" aka "First game of a day", there is literally no games! MM just gives trolls. I don't know why this happens. It just goes that way.
I suggest you to start a ladder run on a smurf account; play 3 games (or less, as you wish) per day. Dodge if needed and dodge in placements too if needed. On my smurf I am having high gold/low plat mmr now because I dodged 3-4 games in placements and dodged like 6 games in 16 games in total.
Pixelbits (EUW)
: Stop blaming your jungler for your own mistakes
> Am I forced to full mute everyone from the start of the game? Atleast then they won’t bother me in my game play and I actually get some good results. Good. You've reached enlightenment xD Though you play only normals, it is very common in ranked too. I often look upto junglers and console myself(supp) because they babysit like 1-4 players every game where I have to babysit only adc most of the times. If you want to win, just mute all and try to gank to get leads and objectives; if not, troll, int, afk or ff. Many players think that it is jungler's duty to win lanes for them even if they're not warding, pushing blindly and not helping for neutral objectives.
Zanador (EUNE)
: How would this "reaching our rank optimally" look like to you? Because just after saying this you list the exact reasons why Riot's system works the way it does in an apparent agreement with the reasons: > We don't have to "out skill" opponents because there will be other factors like :champion matchups, team co-ordination, mental state, ping, fps, how long both players are playing in a stretch and even atmospheric conditions. For example if I play champ X who counters champ Y of my opponent, like Rock-Paper-Scissor game all I need to do is go fight them and naturally I win trades and fights. Quite many of these, including the pick order and so counter picks are either completely random or heavily influenced by factors outside of the player's control. And when you have a game that combines random elements with skills, then the natural way to filter luck out of the equation is to repeat the game over and over until the statistically correct result emerges. Basically every single competitive sport does the same: football, basketball, handball, fencing, tennis, etc. Even some games that do not involve any random elements like Chess does it. >But this comes after games are made and champs are selected, while most of the games now are coin-flips because they're decided when games are made. A coin flip game is one where the player or players can't affect the result. Are you saying that if the system created a match for you to win, then you will not be able to change that and lose even if you decide to troll, feed or just go afk? Because otherwise you are using the term incorrectly. >The game is always unbalanced and some champs will be "broken", some will me "meta" and others will be out of meta or weaker. Look up "perfect imbalance". You might be interested in the concept. >This is why I always suggest everyone to see team mates' profiles during champ select and dodge if their level, rank, number of games played, win ratio, ..... is not satisfactory, because it helps to preserve the mmr. Maybe it is a low elo thing, but dodging some games makes the climbing faster and maintain >50% easily for longer times. It is a good short term tactics. There are countless reasons why a match can have a poor start right from the champ select lobby and dodging the bad ones are a natural way to increase your win rate. The only thing i'd add is that if you are planning for the long run, then you'd probably want to play enough normal games too to learn the skills you forgo with this method, because this plan can come back and bite you.
> How would this "reaching our rank optimally" look like to you? Because just after saying this you list the exact reasons why Riot's system works the way it does in an apparent agreement with the reasons: Now let us take the "perfect rating" first. Let us assume a simply elo calculation: **Rn=Ro+K(W-We) ** **Rn**=new rating; **Ro**=old rating; **K**=weight factor; **W**=win/loss; **We**=win expectancy. Fresh accounts start at average rank's mmr for a server and old accounts start at soft reset of the old rating, during first ranked game. Because the current system completely ignores a player's performance and base everything on Win/Loss (W) even if a player is consistently doing good for his/her role, he/she will lose games because 4 others in team doesn't perform well. In a "perfect" rating system, the change in MMR has to take care of how a player performs and there should be some weighted factor added to the elo calculation. Also add a variance for the in-game parameters that affect the result of the game, which is very very hard to find-but given enough games we can come up with some numerical calculation for it. Add "perfect"matching, which considers fair matching and doesn't sacrifice quality for queue time, doesn't deliberately give "bad" team mates after win streak or in promos, players elo can be estimated faster. Matching, like mmr calculation, can include performance of players through stats to make teams of similar players. Op.gg has a rough estimation of players' performance(it is not accurate, but let's take it as perfect for now) and if we have a score like this with a system like this: if we perform well in past game, get players who perform well in their past game in their main role. I put 1 game for example and for better results it can be made as 10 games or 20 games, to express the consistent performance. This means that if I am playing my role well, I can reach my rank in shortest time-number of games, which is around 25-30 games instead of grinding for 100 games or more. Also, auxiliary things like severe punishment for players who int, troll, afk are also needed for reaching the minimal count. Everyone will get stuck in one rating, but instead of spending time for 100 games we would spend like 1/3rd of the time and rather than grinding to climb, which feels like a chore we can have fun with ranked. > Basically every single competitive sport does the same: football, basketball, handball, fencing, tennis, etc. Even some games that do not involve any random elements like Chess does it. Indeed; but the team games aren't made of random players with random skill levels put together so that a team is formed fast. In 1v1 games like chess, it is very easy to calculate elo because player's performance is the mmr there. In team games, player's performance alone isn't the rating. Consider something like this: Team A: Lionel Messi+4 random rookies on one team vs Team B:5 players whose average rating is same as team A. Will we rate Messi based on Win/loss over time or his performance over time. I am not saying everyone of is skilled like top players, but if we're performing well consistently shouldn't that have an effect? Instead of blindly adding/reducing elo, player's performance/contribution makes the estimation faster. > A coin flip game is one where the player or players can't affect the result. Are you saying that if the system created a match for you to win, then you will not be able to change that and lose even if you decide to troll, feed or just go afk? Because otherwise you are using the term incorrectly. It is. Just like some games are meant to be "lost", some games are meant to be "won". See team mates' as well as opponents' profiles to see how the games are coin-flips. I haven't fed/trolled/afk, but I have seen my team mates(especially adc) feed/troll/afk and still my team winning because one or two players in the team had a losing streak earlier. > The only thing i'd add is that if you are planning for the long run, then you'd probably want to play enough normal games too to learn the skills you forgo with this method, because this plan can come back and bite you. ^This. Idk why many players directly try new things in ranked; like trying a new champ, new patch or reworks. Tldr: instead of complete overhaul of current system for rating and matching, small tweaks like adding a performance based metric can quicken the climb. p.s: Yes. Perfect imbalance is what I consider team co-ordination. For example, if a 0/2 player fights a 2/0 opponent 1v1 to lose again instead of waiting for assistance(gank/roam) I consider them non-co-operative and playing to lose the game. Feeding leads to one sided stomping because instead of shortening the gap in advantages players tend to widen it further. Even a simple thing like not using free {{item:3340}} for the benefit of team in some way can tip the scales because directly or indirectly the lead in one lane/role affects it on other lanes/roles.
: Another post about Loss Streak xDD
Don't get frustrated and just grind through these games, because there is an incoming win streak. Gl hf {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} p.s: you forgot Rule #1 xD
Zanador (EUNE)
: Let's imagine a scenario: what would happen if there was a perfect player rating system and a perfect matchmaking system at the same time? Then you'd naturally be matched with players who are on the same skill level as you are, right? On both teams. Ergo you can't "out skill" them and so you'd have a 50% win rate. Don't you think that some players would call it a "coin flip". And with so many 50-50 matches, don't you think a player would be "stuck" in their ratings?
There is indeed a chance for players to be "stuck" in a place because not everyone improves over time and not everyone can reach challenger #1 spot; but in that situation the "fair" games and the "perfect" mmr will mean that we're reaching our rank optimally and not by grinding or through RNG/luck based games. We don't have to "out skill" opponents because there will be other factors like :champion matchups, team co-ordination, mental state, ping, fps, how long both players are playing in a stretch and even atmospheric conditions. For example if I play champ X who counters champ Y of my opponent, like Rock-Paper-Scissor game all I need to do is go fight them and naturally I win trades and fights. But this comes after games are made and champs are selected, while most of the games now are coin-flips because they're decided when games are made. The game is always unbalanced and some champs will be "broken", some will me "meta" and others will be out of meta or weaker. This is why I always suggest everyone to see team mates' profiles during champ select and dodge if their level, rank, number of games played, win ratio, ..... is not satisfactory, because it helps to preserve the mmr. Maybe it is a low elo thing, but dodging some games makes the climbing faster and maintain >50% easily for longer times.
: Riot matchmaking sucks balls
While matchmaking is bad, it isn't going to check for players using team speak or discord or any similar software for communication and give games like pre vs pre. Instead of that it simply adds some mmr to that team's average mmr. Matchmaking forces us to grind games to climb and that's why players who are skilled can be stuck in some elo. It is a team game, but if someone in team plays to lose they can make the team lose and funny thing is trolls/inters/afk players are not at all punished. Imo there is some sort of consideration of performance in matching, like after win streak or in promos we get players who are worse than us and after lose streak we get players who are better than us. Instead of estimating our mmr with our performance, the matching blindly puts us in some mmr to force 50% win rate and then asks us to play for 66% win rate to climb. Don't get frustrated and keep grinding. Gl hf{{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} p.s: look at players who are stuck in some elo and you will be happier that you climbed to D4 in 600 games :-)
M3GTRDragon (EUNE)
: Actually, the problem here is, you just assume someones opinion. I rather have a responsive crap than unresponsive brick wall. I can save the situation with one, not with the other. The problem with feeding is... it's not them wanting to feed, it's them getting stomp. And this comes down to matchmaking being bullshit and everybody and their grandmom smurfing. Having unbalanced matches and people stomping noobs' then inting to keep the rank low, just for the hell of it is a problem. And that can only be removed by developing a proper matchmaking.
No. Not playing safe is wanting to feed/getting stomped/losing. I can see players walking straight into a {{champion:143}} combo(EWQWaaR) and cry that she is broken or support is over powered and many games I have played 1v2(mostly), 1v3(sometimes) even against 1 or 2 fed opponents because I don't create much opportunities for opponents to catch me. Many games I ward river brush asap if I see a hook support or someone like {{champion:25}} {{champion:99}} because an invade with them is dangerous; but almost 80% of games there is atleast 1 player who goes under turret and afk instead of protecting the buff or protecting the entry point. When opponents invade or gank at level 2 not warding prior or not tracking the jungler is the reason why the gank or invade succeeds. Top laners are usually the ones who do it to extreme, because they die level 1, {{summoner:12}} back to again die most of the times. This is just example, but such an early setback is what leads to early snowballing and one sided stomping. While matchmaking is indeed a problem, it is not like flex queue where matching is like Diamond elo vs Silver elo and most of the unfair matches are still like 0-4 ranks difference in solo queue. Matchmaking is one thing, but "throwing" by bad plays and not co-operating can lead a perfectly fair matching(very rare) to become an unbalanced game. Because I am support, I often push players to ward-but they don't even ward-then get into 1v2,1v3 situations because of lack of vision, then blame me(and jg) which is not a problem of MMR, but players playing to lose instead of playing to win or atleast to not lose.
: even more ideally you could remove your teammates and league will be single player game remove league, install Half-life 3 {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}} toxicity problem solved
: Again...Loss streak...
Rule #1: Don't play ranked during weekends. Rule #2: Follow Rule #1 always. Don't get frustrated because games are just coin-flips and because you've loss streak now, expect easy wins now (trolls/afk/feeders in opponent team). Gl hf {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} p.s: Don't forget Rule #1 xD
xAqaaya (EUW)
: Banned for playing with lag?
Are you sure you didn't grief or write negative in chat for multiple games like spamming surrenders and writing ff at 15 sort of things? Imo your stats are better for the punishment system to be seen as "bad" game and not inting, but some kill maps might be the cause for the int report. Was this the only game or some past games were also included? It is actually very rare to get banned under these sections and you can submit a [ticket](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/requests/new) if you think you didn't do it intentionally. p.s: Do try new champions in normals first(though the matching maybe bad) and then take it to ranked.
: Time to get at Gold promotion. I predict the future games.
I highly suggest you to not play during weekends, find a reliable duo(from your friendlist or from discord) and play it on monday or tuesday xD Gl hf {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: Hard 2 not take the game seriously when 3 or 4 out of 5 games you get people like this. In the end you will have to not take any game seriously and just say %%%% it, let me just try some new shit every game until I get to the depths of Iron 4. Guardian Zyra with font of life works well with utility build(I say utility but it's not set in stone, you can chose to go ap with the build if u find that your team is lacking ap on the course of the game and you are snowballing bot). What it lacks in damage (I say lacks but Zyra will always have good damage even if u build her full tank) she provides in utility and peel. You can get redemption for more team fight power, zeeks convergence and knights vow for ultimate peel and even ardent if you wanna be 200IQ since anyone who will attack targets with font of life(procked by your ult and any plants that you activate with E - also procked with redepmtion heal if u get both - and also procked with guardian that gets also procked if people hit enemies impared with font of life) on them will get the buff. For lane I find guardian to be way better in terms of sustain/poke/trades and later on in fights the build + guardian will make you so tanky and basically almost unkillable. Look at it as a trade, you trade one shoot potential for ultimate peel and team fight presence with decent damage.
Ya. We need to see ranked as "quantity over quality", so if we get bad matchings ff 15 and goto next game. Regarding Zyra, it is a good idea and building supp items is very useful right now since gold income is reduced a lot for her. I was looking at aftershock for her because some Korean players were trying it sometime back at high elo, but guardian+font of life is good as it makes up for no heal/shield from her kit. Will try this setup soon and as long as there is mana I think she can get damage provided we use the RNG plants (passive) good. Add {{item:3190}} to the build and create an abomination xD
Nittomane (EUW)
: Troll need to get banned!
+1 Players who int are rarely punished; players who troll are very rarely punished; players who afk/ragequit are not at all punished-simply because these players help RIOT in forcing everyone to play more games. Also like few players say here, many players flame/abuse others because teammates int-not like 0/2 in 5 mins, but like 0/5 in 5 mins. Unlike toxicity, which can be avoided by disabling the chat(team and all chat) option the trolls/afk/inters can't be avoided by unchecking a box in settings.
: >I guess maybe one premade is there Would be detected by porofessor.
Right. I forgot that.
: You know that feeling?
Problem is that matchmaking is inclined more or all towards giving games faster (shorter queue times) and less or nothing towards giving fair games. This added with biased matching in and around promos makes games literally buying lottery. If we want to win, we need to keep dodging multiple games every day and make sure to preserve MMR at all cost. With how low impact support has, even if we're making the best pings for warnings for ganks, objectives and ward well, the trolls, inters and afk players decide the game. Very rarely inters are punished, trolls are almost never punished and afk has no punishment. So if you're not seeing your teammates profiles during champ select to dodge (based on rank, level, win ratio, number of games played, first timing champ,autofill, kda,kp,dmg,vspm, recent games....) and if you see someone is playing to lose the game, play it like a normal game. Some players will use the lame excuses like "how can riot know this"or "why is riot targeting you"when they are not even seeing game history and players profiles. Matchmaking in general is made to force us to play more games to climb and that's why dodging few games which are going to be sure losses preserves our MMR to let us climb faster. Tldr-don't get frustrated, see your team mates profiles in champ select and dodge games to preserve your MMR and mental state. Gl hf {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: What would you prefer [toxicity is a fake problem, nobody looks for real ones]
Ideally if we disable chat the problem of toxicity is reduced a lot-but this doesn't make team mates are challenger level. Not responding to flaming does reduce players throwing games, especially in low elo because some time is saved if players don't keep typing throughout the game. But the problems with matchmaking, inting, trolling, afk can't be reduced by turning off a setting. Sadly the 200iq players in boards don't understand this and don't even accept these are problematic. Most of my friends who start league give up not because it is toxic, but because games are coin flips. Other moba games are win or lose based on team and not because of individual players.
negativ0e (EUW)
: i cant climb of bronze
Have a look at these videos- https://youtu.be/ixqka1eX0gk https://youtu.be/JB6HoOlS9NE https://youtu.be/Q7QXeujR5XA Apart from changing runes and spells, you should improve on cs and objectives. If you've teleport always try to use it for tp gank or to help in team fight for Drake. You don't have to save up tp if you can insta push and get turret plates or Rift heralds, but that one tp gank from you can extend your lead to other roles. Rift heralds are weaker but still it can be secured and be used to get more gold and even turrets. If you're not having tp just try to help your jg for river fights, deep ward in opponent jg and getting rift herald. Both {{champion:122}} and {{champion:86}} are really good for climbing from bronze. Always abuse vision tricks; waiting in an unwarded brush or brush with{{item:2055}} means you can kill them easily. Darius has pull and Garen has silence. Watch some streamers and high elo games(pro-play is a must) to see how they play. Gl hf {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: The hell is this matchmaking?
Well it is because matchmaking is inclined more towards giving games faster and (maybe) not at (all) giving fair games. I haven't checked every single profile, but I guess maybe one premade is there to have such a difference in ranks. As always I write, check team mates profiles during champ select and it is safer to dodge games where someone's +/-2 ranks from our rank. p.s: I like porofessor because they give details like invader, ignores turret, passive laner,... which are really useful even at champ select.
: Why people in the forum are 24/7 pressed and their replies are just toxic spam?
There will be players who give useful replies too. Follow the useful ones and neglect the troll posts.
: RIOT FIX UR MATCHMAKING! -.-
That{{champion:51}} player was a new player and possibly dodged few placement games to preserve MMR. I didn't check games individually so this may be wrong, but because fresh accounts have inflated mmr at early stages it is easy for such things to happen. While it is good for climbing fast, if they perform poor they will affect the entire team. p.s1: if someone isn't warding and writes stuff like only supports should ward, consider that they want to lose the game and don't take the game seriously. p.s2: why guardian on{{champion:143}} ? Is it good?
: (MMR) Need Advice. Make a New Account or Not?
I would suggest you to make a smurf account and follow this: 1) from placement games start dodging games. See teammates profiles and dodge multiple games if needed. Play only 3 games in a day and if you're dodging all 3 games play normal or play in other account. 2) play champions like{{champion:1}} for mid and {{champion:19}} for jg. They're simple to execute and you can focus on getting objectives more. 3) don't expect players to follow pings. I play support and I ping all time only to see others not even seeing those pings. Because you play roles with high impact try to solo carry or try to get big leads so that you can always win any 1v1. 4) keep chat to minimum-like wp,mb,gj, wait for gank, come Drake. Never start a flame war or even participate in it because it is going to waste time. 5) try to end games faster. This is what I generally try to do-don't feed, get first Drake 5-8 mins, get rift heralds 8-12 mins push mid with it. Then take 2nd Drake and rift herald, ward opponent jg and camp it. As long as my team doesn't feed and do this, even if we don't win in 25 minutes we have huge lead most of the times. GL hf {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
Shamose (EUW)
: That bug has been there for years in some way, shape or form. Here it is 3 years ago in the NALCS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GReCFohUpdg
These two clips made my day :)
: Im silver but i consistently get plat and even diamond players in my norms
Your rank in one queue has no meaning in other queue because every queue has their own ratings.
: RIOT GAMES IS LYING TO THE ENTIRE LEAGUE OF LEGENDS COMMUNITY !!!!!
They force players to play more games to climb with the super bad matchmaking and even if we dodge multiple games (where teammates profile shows that it is a loss) the win streaks will always be followed by lose streaks because they force 50% winrate to stabilize MMR rather than stabilizing it with a Performance based metric. For example, if I duo or if I get lucky my partner or my team will carry me over my actual skill level even if I am performing poorly consistently and the reverse is also true: if I don't duo or get unlucky I will lose even if I am performing good consistently. So games are decided by getting lucky or good rng (less trolls/afk/feeders in team or more trolls/afk/feeders in opponent team) than getting decided by overall team performances. Especially in and around promos, team mates being far worse than us is clearly visible but some intellects on "boards" turn a blind eye to it by saying "How RIOT knows a player will feed" kind of comments. If you're not buying the lame excuse of "MMR is same", start logging your team mates' profiles and you will see how 50% winrate is forced or how they force us to play more games instead of giving fair games.
Hansiman (EUW)
: > Make smurf accounts start with 14 day ban directly and put them into toxic queue after that. The system is already stricter towards lower level accounts. A "toxic queue" is known as Prisoner's Island, a system known to cause people to become more toxic, rather than less.
Nice. But then imo it is better to isolate a "bad" apple than put it in basket of "good" apples, because many players do get punished because they respond to flame rather than starting the flame war and over time the basket gets more "bad" apples.
: I geuss I'm one of the lucky ones then because atm I'm going on a 58% winrate in Ranked or i'm just too good for my rank (Gold III), not sure xD
{{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} If your LP gain is far greater than LP lost (like 24:12) you are safe for now. If they're closing in (like 20:16) be careful GL hf :)
KITP Bluu (EUW)
: Why always this toxicity??
> While I'm trying to play the game I see people standing around for 2-5 seconds And you know what's even more interesting I even remember what they typed and as you can guess.... It was mostly flame Yes. I have seen players not using abilities and only trying to auto attack running into towers or opponents because they're typing or have chat box open. And yes, though toxic players are punished toxicity didn't reduce because smurf accounts are just too easy to get. Instead of perma ban, after 14 day ban it will be good if toxic players are matched together and kept like that till they receive no more reports till end of season. Make smurf accounts start with 14 day ban directly and put them into toxic queue after that. {{sticker:darius-angry}}
: Your "Win Conditions" do not have anything with how you play (or do very little).
Always check team mates profile at champ select; checking for win rate, level, number of games played, auto fill, first timing champ, recent games,.... helps you to dodge such games instead of playing them. Losing 3 or 10 lp and preserving MMR is better than losing 12-24lp and losing MMr all while getting tilted. If you're at 50% win rate the matching will give you a loss for every game you win. Because forcing that win rate and giving games faster is more important than giving fair games.
Kalllemir (EUW)
: Swain
He can be played in top, mid, APC and supp. He is played in supp because he can get more souls for his passive and does better than other mages because of his sustain. Iirc he was played in top lane in worlds.
: I see ADCs who cannot CS all the time. Yet they sit in their elos simply because their role has so little impact. Same as supports. In low elos again the great population of "Malphite support trolls" is growing. They think that by trolling they just get rid of their autofill, but their Rating will sink because of losses. Malphite is troll pick and by doing so they just tilt their team and team instantly losing chances to win.
I won't say{{champion:54}} is troll pick for support, but ya, he got nerfed and not op, is suitable only for{{champion:157}} ADC. I haven't played him as supp and imo it is actually suicidal to have weak early game as supp rn. And yes, I have seen lot of games where adc had more farm than others, good lead in kills, turret plates and even as ADC+supp there were games where we couldn't 2v1 someone; unless they're super fed or someone like{{champion:67}} it is very hard to have any impact. I stress on cs always because they get power with items and not levels, playing safe because everyone will come to bot lane and 1 death can widen the gap in items and levels overall.
: You mean if i want to be sriously banned? Moderators of this page are just riot soldier that know very little about critique. they will ban anyone that is saying anything even remtely bad about the game. As per current state ladder games are just a joke Unfair unbalanced and all on purpose. Now you have to have more luck than skill to win a game. Matching is so random and horrible begger blieve.
Duo abuse works because players don't pay attention to those who duo; if I see opponent bot lane is duo, I tend to play extra safe because they've better communication than me+a random ADC. If jg is duo, they will camp their partner mostly and like this we can make out scenarios if we know who two were duo. Regarding everything else, only few players actually even say that matching is bad or games are like coin flips. Mostly players are ok with grinding more games or taking the game as daily chores, so they're not bothered with this.
Vanchovski (EUNE)
: AD Carries are underperforming.
Maybe it is a low elo thing, but if adc players aren't playing someone like Draven they should just try to maximize cs to scale faster and position well to play safe. Also others shouldn't lose so hard and make the level difference worse for bot duo. I play supp and in silver, most of the games are decided even before adc can hit 1-2 items. Even the adc players won't play safe and constantly fight or push blindly to die more and get behind more instead of farming to keep up with level and items.
Rinart73 (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=HaraldTheSlayer,realm=EUW,application-id=eZuvYsEr,discussion-id=nfftXcPf,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-30T22:53:47.359+0000) > > As soon as Rito gives a damn about you, the player. So.. never? They don't seem to care about anything that is not another tournament.
If this happens to a pro player or a streamer and if they make it a trending tweet or reddit post.
: When even TF Blade can't carry inting botlane in Platinum ELO.
When** being the major win condition and being that hyper carry for the team** requires skills, _**not being the lose condition and not being the one who is feeding**_to make team lose is so easy, whatever the elo it is. From my experience most of the silver elo adc players are just botting the games and won't even try to play safe or position better(I become bad supp no matter what champ I play because I don't feed with them).
: When are the toplane impact changes coming?
...when top laners understand that summoners rift has jungle, mid lane and bot lane.
: So instead of adressing the actuall issue and make solo queue it is better to just go with it and be as cheap and horrible as other premades. Great logic there this really makes this game and community exceptional!
If you seriously want to address the issue post from the acc you play or give some game history. Simply writing without any context isn't useful for anyone.
: League of filthy boosters premade and smurfs!
Instead of writing so many posts why not find some premades and stomp others{{sticker:sg-lux-2}} ?
: I don't fully agree with you. When I fall behind in the laning phase by let's say repeated ganks from the enemy jungle I usually try to freeze the wave under my turret. I ping my jungle for a gank which I've made very easy for him. If the jungle decides to just farm or do drake I think he's kind of trolling. I don't expect my jungle to win my lane for me every game but I do expect him to help out when there is an easy gank.
I wrote "many " players and not "all" players :) And observe how many players actually do what you do.
: What is wrong with matchmaking
Each queue has individual ratings and that is why many games in normal and flex queue can be like this, big difference in ranks of players considering their solo queue rank. If you're playing jungle expect to be blamed, flamed and trolled be it normals or ranked, because it is the problem with players and not matchmaking. Though I blame jungler, I blame them only for not taking drakes or rift heralds and from what I observe many players (new or old) think that it is jungler's job to win the lane for them and give them kills. They think that junglers can TP anywhere anytime and aren't "smart" enough to understand "smart" pings. Don't get frustrated and gl hf {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
MatthewiO (EUNE)
: Matchmaking
It is because unranked players have mmr of Silver 2-3 from start and they are put into low gold-high silver games all time. When you started ranked you also would've been in games like this and though it helps new players to climb fast, when they perform badly (which happens most of the times) it hurts the whole team.
EpicJrX (EUW)
: Either the ranked game is broken or my account is cursed
It is because you're having a 58% win rate and in order to force it to 50%, matchmaking will be giving games like this for you. Either you should solo carry these games or dodge them before they start. I didn't check all players from the match histories but I see that you had a win streak in between the two losing streaks so if we check players from those games we can see some trend like this: after a win streak your team mates will be mostly autofilled, having a losing streak, 2+ranks below your rank, having bad kda over past 10 games,... and after a lose streak your opponents will be mostly like this. Also playing as duo is still better as having someone who doesn't feed and co-operate with you is a good thing(in low elo it is very very good thing). Don't get frustrated with this and gl hf {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} p.s: It is better to remove the names from the images.
: The banning system is a joke (again)
Toxic chat is what you got banned for and it isn't unfair. Also if you're not caring about it and possibly leaving the game why post it here?
: tanks in this game are more assassins then any other assassin
No. Tanks can't kill someone in 3s and I have played 1v1 vs them when I am like 3 levels behind and 2-3 items behind(supp vs top). If anything I always like to 1v1 tanks because they're not going to jump around with dashes like assassins({{champion:55}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:238}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:38}} ...) and come from fog of war using such a dash to eliminate me within 1 second before I can even press flash or zhonyas. Juggernauts can deal damage but still 3 seconds is situational and doesn't happen always and I agree that they can deal lot of damage while being tanky. They're easy to kite and with few items countering the heal/passive they get they can be dealt with and this is why itemisation is important.
KerberosFi (EUNE)
: I can agree with transparency issue. Many times players don't understand why are they getting matched gainst x rank players and due to there not being any reliable way to check mmr (even estimaton system op.gg had is gone) these cases remain as mysteries leading into frustration. I think matchamking is trying to get as fair games as possible and not really prioritizing time, but variables in players' performance in addition to how quickly games may snowball out of control leads into games that feel unfair. And yes, certainly climbing is really slow. It's two two edged sword: In the other end it allows players most of the time play ranked without fear of demoting into lower **tier** while in return making promoting and climbing overall slow. On the other hand system demanding lots of games should in **theory **(and I stress this) give better estimation players' skills, but again, the mmr being right compared to the skill level doesn't mean their performance in individual game would produce fair matches. Another aspect supporting idea of slower ranked system is that due to season lasting almost 1 year, the ranked should retain some sort of stable playerbase. If players would be in danger to constantly drop in tiers and climb into target division quicly, the best tactic would obviously be stop after reaching d4 for instance and leave ranked altogether for rest of the season due to danger of dropping being too great. Yes, I think it is very much possible Riot wants to keep players playing ranked for longer, but in return I think if players would slurp through ladder in 2 months, there would be no reason to have annual seasons(and ranked playerbase middle of season would get really small), yet I think having so long seasons gives certain amounts of respect for the ranks achieved rather than seasons starting once per few months or so. Once again, I don't think this is so much due to the matchmaking, but rather more due to the system being moderate in lp gains and losses. In TFT (and this is only limiting to climbing part) the lp gains are humengous but in return there are 75 or so lp losses from time to time. Yet due to LOL being 5v5 team game, having such crazy lp gains/losses would possibly lead to greater displease than the current system, due to variance in how player may perform from game to game. I think there are two ways one can view the ranked ladder. First, one can think it queue thatshould in theory produce equal matches with 50% winrate in each. In this sense, once player starts to struggle in climbing, they have been placed correctly. Against conspiracy theories, this isn't due to matchmaking forcing it (put intentionally bad players in own team and pros in enemy team) but rather player not being able outclass the players around them. One thought I have of difference between performance and skill is this: From time to time, bronze player may perform at diamond level. But just because they could play one game at that level doesn't change perception of them as a player. Diamond players are in that tier because they can consistently perform at that level. This may also go vice-versa, but once again, consistency is key word here. Big word here is consistency. That doesn't mean player may 100% of the time perform at their tier's skill level, but to get there they have needed to perform at that tier's level most of the time. Yet due to there not being any skillset requirement for each tiers, the only mattering thing is wether one can win more that 50% of the time(not overall wr, wr in individual tiers/divisions. For instance gold 4 player with over 50% wr in that division will climb into gold 3. If they then drop their winrate below 50% in that division, they will drop into gold 4). The second way to view the ranked would be to view it as pure achievement system. In that view it isn't as important how fair the matches are. Tiers are just achievements that may be collected by reaching the lp amount demanded for x tier by any means. Fairness in matchmaking doesn't matter because in theory everyone must have gone through the same hell. These two views are just me playing with thoughts and shouldn't be taken too literally, but one take away is this: one shouldn't try to view the system through both lenses at the same time. If their only goal is to climb as quickly as possible, they should only focus their view on the second one. Ranked is therefore just a wall that has to be got over with, despite trolls, afkers, smurfs etc. On the other hand, looking through the former it should be acknowledged that to climb, one has to get great at the game. Playing ranked should therefore be more about learning than forcibly climbing. The climbing in this case will happen naturally, not quicly in rushes but eventually. Player should in this view focus on their performance, what can be done better, in a way forget that they are even playing ranked while still doing absolute best they can. Tl dr; And I know this sidetracked a little bit, but my main take away is this: Ranked can't produce matches that would feel fair for everyone due to performance in individual games being different and games snowballing. It should however be asked wether player's attitude towards ranked may play bigger difference in their experiences rather than the fairness in matchmaking. Due to players mainly adapting raw "achievement" mentality while paying attention to misfortune they may have, could be one explaining reason for experienced frustration. On the other hand, viewing ranked as not perfect, but as growth as a player experience could ease frustration they could otherwise have of mischances and lack of progress in the ladder.
> I think matchamking is trying to get as fair games as possible and not really prioritizing time, but variables in players' performance in addition to how quickly games may snowball out of control leads into games that feel unfair. And yes, certainly climbing is really slow. It's two two edged sword: In the other end it allows players most of the time play ranked without fear of demoting into lower tier while in return making promoting and climbing overall slow. Forcing win rates or alternating win streaks/lose streaks is not trying to make the games fair. We can check players' match histories to see that there are some games where the players will perform good/bad-based on data from past games. This "bad" matching can be seen easily in and around promos where matching pretty much gives bad team mates who are going to int/afk. > Another aspect supporting idea of slower ranked system is that due to season lasting almost 1 year, the ranked should retain some sort of stable playerbase. If players would be in danger to constantly drop in tiers and climb into target division quicly, the best tactic would obviously be stop after reaching d4 for instance and leave ranked altogether for rest of the season due to danger of dropping being too great. Yes,but instead of making games coin-flip, they can make the same thing with fairer games too. > Yes, I think it is very much possible Riot wants to keep players playing ranked for longer, but in return I think if players would slurp through ladder in 2 months, there would be no reason to have annual seasons(and ranked playerbase middle of season would get really small), yet I think having so long seasons gives certain amounts of respect for the ranks achieved rather than seasons starting once per few months or so. Once again, I don't think this is so much due to the matchmaking, but rather more due to the system being moderate in lp gains and losses. In TFT (and this is only limiting to climbing part) the lp gains are humengous but in return there are 75 or so lp losses from time to time. Yet due to LOL being 5v5 team game, having such crazy lp gains/losses would possibly lead to greater displease than the current system, due to variance in how player may perform from game to game. Yes, I totally understand why they would want playerbase to be stable-but if they had considered quality of games it would make the game play experience better. Personally I played like 75 games to reach Silver 100LP and took 125 games to reach Gold 4 0 LP, 5 times played promos which means that if I had climbed earlier I would've played even more and not stopped around 210 games. It is a MOBA game, but feels like gambling and fortune telling where mmr/LP is determined fully by matchmaking and not through PRA-Performance based Rank Adjustment. If we add some sort of PRA in matching overall the MMR estimation or the climbing speed will be lot smoother because those who play good will get good team mates and those who play bad will get bad team mates. > I think there are two ways one can view the ranked ladder. First, one can think it queue thatshould in theory produce equal matches with 50% winrate in each. In this sense, once player starts to struggle in climbing, they have been placed correctly. Against conspiracy theories, this isn't due to matchmaking forcing it (put intentionally bad players in own team and pros in enemy team) but rather player not being able outclass the players around them. How it forces the winrates is another big topic, but for the second part I can show you many examples. Iirc, almost in all of the games I won enemy team had atleast 1 player who went like 0/10 before I complete support item (8-10) and reverse is also true. I understand that i myself am not good player, but none of this is due to 200IQ outplays or having good micro/macro; it is simply 1 tilted guy throwing or someone trolling or inting. Higher we go this reduces overall, but such games still exists. > Big word here is consistency. That doesn't mean player may 100% of the time perform at their tier's skill level, but to get there they have needed to perform at that tier's level most of the time. Yet due to there not being any skillset requirement for each tiers, the only mattering thing is wether one can win more that 50% of the time(not overall wr, wr in individual tiers/divisions. For instance gold 4 player with over 50% wr in that division will climb into gold 3. If they then drop their winrate below 50% in that division, they will drop into gold 4). Imo it applies to all roles other than support. Because no matter how consistently supp can perform, if there is not a reliable duo for adc they can't climb. > On the other hand, looking through the former it should be acknowledged that to climb, one has to get great at the game. Playing ranked should therefore be more about learning than forcibly climbing. The climbing in this case will happen naturally, not quicly in rushes but eventually. Player should in this view focus on their performance, what can be done better, in a way forget that they are even playing ranked while still doing absolute best they can. Agreed. But games should feel like a 5v5 moba game and not a gambling game, where it is heads/tails at matching. Everyone who complains played atleast 50 games and know that more we play, more we can climb-but it isn't pleasant to play additional games to climb because at one point it feels like buying a lottery ticket and waiting for win/loss in first few mins. > On the other hand, viewing ranked as not perfect, but as growth as a player experience could ease frustration they could otherwise have of mischances and lack of progress in the ladder. ^ Well said. It took me lot of time to understand this and tbh if there was no rank shaming/bragging players will get this point so easily. Overall it is simply about asking equal weight for 1) lower queue time, 2) fair games and 3) autofilling which makes the games pleasant and enjoyable to play ( https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752954-Matchmaking-Guide ). Especially as a support player, I get games in 5-10 seconds mostly and iirc 30s was the maximum queue time I got and if we go through match histories we can see how the other 2 options -fair games (players of equal or nearby mmr) and autofill are sacrificed. p.s: It is actually good to have discussions like this instead of replying to age old consolation comments of "MMR is same" :)
: What do I do about Champion Select trolls?
If it is ranked game, other than dodging you don't have any other option. In Silver this is so common, especially when some one bans team mate's pick or if 2 players want to play same champ. They won't be punished if the inting is not like 0/20/0 in 20 mins with no cs and no dmg. And if it is a normal game you can also troll; I kind of troll with picks as I take mages as supports but don't troll in game as long as my team isn't trolling. But if they troll, feed or don't surr a lost game when there is not even 1% of winning I troll with them- waste my summoners, zhonya, abilities and then int so that opponents end game faster.
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Uraraka

Level 123 (EUNE)
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