: ... It would be in your own interest to provide information. For example you could download with 10-20 MB/s from a location while having a terrible ping to the exact same location. If you are acting like this when talking to any kind of support you will get no help simply because it is impossible!
You're making no sense whatsoever.
Jachavik (EUW)
: If you were playing on EUNE, they moved the server from Frankfurt to Amsterdam, resulting in slightly higher ping for some users (maybe you are closer to Frankfurt)
Yes, I am. That's probably the reason. Thank you for that information.
: =/= stands for "not equal" So that was exactly what i was pointing out. > was accelerated from 10 mb to 20 mb What is that even supposed to mean if we're at it? You should try to be more precise...
Internet speed (download - 19 mb; upload - 1 mb) duh hurr durr.
: bandwith =/= ping
Pretty sure my problem has nothing to do with bandwidth.
Blakex13x (EUW)
: Dear riot change your system of you will lose another player.
If you're in B4 it's 100% on you. Are you TERRIBLE at the game.
Rioter Comments
: D4 with 60% w/r getting +13/-23
My guess is you were playing at low online times and most of your wins and loses were against people with lower MMR than you so you were getting low amount of MMR each win and lost a lot of it on loss. To fix your MMR I suggest you climb up to next promotion and dodge so you lose the promotion and stay in D4 (I'm pretty sure dodge doesn't make you lose that much of MMR). Keep doing this until your MMR is normal.
Snowbrand (EUW)
: She have been out for a while now and I both play her and played vs her quiet a lot. She looks a bit like fiora, jax, Kog'Maw or nasus. She can have an okay laning phase and even bully some champions. I've won some games with her in ranked and when you hit lvl 11 and 16 she is really strong and frustrating to play against. So judging from having played her and against her a lot, she is strong. I might abuse her a bit before they probably nerf her because she is strong right now and was even picked in lpl and lec. So if you know how to play her she will carry games pretty hard.
She doesn't have an okay laning phase. Tell me one matchup which she's supposed to win. A champion that needs level 11 in order to be good is not a good champion, especially in this season when games can be over befor you can reach that level. No offense but I don't care about how good she is in Silver. Any champion can look super good there.
Snowbrand (EUW)
: Since last time I wrote, he is 11-10 with Kayle + the games before that, so it can't all be luck anymore. He have a pretty good winrate still, in CHALLENGER. That should tell you something lol.
So 11-10 is supposed to be super good and indicate that Kayle is a good/OP champion? Since last 3 days he lost almost every single game while playing her.
Snowbrand (EUW)
: No it doesn't. He won actually 13 out of 14 games on kayle. That many games are not luck and dmg to enemies doesn't show stuff like macro (which is very important on kayle) or decision makings and so on. Winrates doesn't show everything of course, but 55 % winrate on a champion and you can't win with her, that means you are bad not the champion. Sry to say that, but that's how it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72wFUTw71x0 If you look at games in this video you'll see he basically got carried by his team in all 3 games even though he played well. All he did in team fights was supporting his team with W and R, his damage was very poor. His build is not even about AAs, he just goes AP to make his heals stronger. In this video you can see him talking that maxing E first makes no sense. That to me proves Kayle is a horrible champion right now. She needs buffs on her E and make her ranged champion at level 6, not 11.
Snowbrand (EUW)
: No it doesn't. He won actually 13 out of 14 games on kayle. That many games are not luck and dmg to enemies doesn't show stuff like macro (which is very important on kayle) or decision makings and so on. Winrates doesn't show everything of course, but 55 % winrate on a champion and you can't win with her, that means you are bad not the champion. Sry to say that, but that's how it is.
It can be luck. I once had 27 wins and like 2 loses on Nidalee on one account and on another about 50%. It's because in the games I've picked Nidalee Rito's ranking system wanted me to win the games. You can't judge win rate after just so few games, you need at least dozens if not hundred of games to tell it. How is macro more important on Kayle than on any other top lane champion? You're spewing nonsense.
M3GTRDragon (EUNE)
: actually no, both akali and azir got cutted due to their dominance in high elo, despite having pretty darn low winrate acriss all elos. Also all of them have weak level 1, strong 2 and 5, weaker 6, and weaker 9.
So?
M3GTRDragon (EUNE)
: kayle ultimate is a teamfight changer. put it on assassin or a diver and they take no damage while obliterating their frontline. even more so if you combine it with Morgana e, who is pretty dominant support right now. There's also the fact that kayle starts shredding everything no matter what she builds as long as she has enough attack speed. since a portion of her attacks do true damage and that can be enhanced even further with conqueror and red buff, She does not need to stack, she just needs to get experience. And she is quite punishing to most melee laners when she maxes e or q, since she can just auto them once from afar for good chunk of damage and then run away.(her e works as auto reset as well) The only downside she has is her very squishy early game and being item dependent.
In what world an assassin is going to obliterate frontline? As assassin you only want to reach the backline by flanking enemy team and then just run away. Using Kayle's ult on assassin would be a waste most of the time. Her AA items are expensive and she needs level 11 because she can't do any extended trades in melee range. Most of top lane melee champions have gap closers so if she comes in to E (her E has poor range) someone they can just jump on her and win every trade.
Snowbrand (EUW)
: She is fine and pretty strong atm. I've won quite a few of my games in ranked with her. Also a 53-55 % is never weak. If you call a champion at 55 % winrate weak, then you clearly don't know anything. EDIT: Obviously Kayle is bad in Masters as you can see here for example (9 winstreak games on kayle, but she is weak I guess): https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=PantsAreFacebook
Rito's stupid matchmaking system. If you analyze these game more carefully you'll see he got carried in almost every single one of them (damage dealt to champions pretty low etc.). This proves win rates aren't good argument. Do you have anything else to prove me that she's any good? Please tell me how her abilities make her strong and why is that. :D
M3GTRDragon (EUNE)
: Sorry to piss you off, but with kayle it's like with nasus. once you get past your early and into certain point in mid(or god forbid lategame), the game is over
Except it's not the case at all. Nasus is more useful than Kayle thanks to his powerful slow and can spam his Q while on R. Champions like Kai'Sa or Kog'Maw can hyper carry way better than Kayle.
Marcua (EUW)
: That is not the site I have seen it on, but this looks more legit, so I find you correct. However, her overall win rate in master Korea is according to this site 51,5%, not 48%. 51,5% is still good, and in master where games are short and kayle often not gets her power spike, I would say 51% might even be strong.
It fluctuates between 48% and 51% (right now it's 49%) what proves win rate is NOT a reliable way of judging whether a champion is good or bad because you don't really know how EXACTLY Riot's solo queue matchmaking system works. Just looks at abilities themselves and how they interact with other champions and then tell me in what world you can call her good.
Marcua (EUW)
: No need to throw personal insults in there buddy, that is just childish. You wrote that you felt her kit was weaker, because among other things she had a "Skillshot on her q instead of a point and click" and you aren't able to AA while ulting (Instead you get get a damaged cone around you and an opportunity to reposition in fights, which I personally think is still fine.)
What's childish is misrepresenting someone's arguments. This damage cone is very low so it doesn't compensate ability to AA a few times during its duration at all and as her enemy you see this damage coming so you can easily avoid it. During laning it's impossible to hit anyone with her Q if her enemy is standing behind a minion wave. Another indicator that she's a horrible champion is that she absolutely HAS to take Kleptomancy or it's guaranteed she will lose the lane even vs noobs. I can't think of any other champion that needs to take that rune or won't do anything in lane. She's basically way worse version of GP or Kassadin and I don't understand why would you pick her over these 2 champions.
Marcua (EUW)
: Idk where you have those numbers, but they are incorrect. On Korea Kayle has a 54% winrate in the top lane on all eloes, which INCREASES the higher mmr she gets.
https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/kayle/kr/top/master Master+ Korea.
Hansiman (EUW)
: > win rates are not definitive proof for anything. No, it's not. That's why Riot doesn't use just win-rates when they judge a character. --- > I don't really use Twitter so I have no clue what you're talking about. Your arguments are pretty much a copy of a fight that's been going on on Twitter at the same time as you started using these arguments. --- > The fact stands she can't lane whatsoever vs the champions I've mentioned and she will always die to them in lane or won't be able to CS. And that's intended. She's intended to have a **weak** laning phase where she is to play **passive**. She's a late game hypercarry, not an early game duelist.
> [{quoted}](name=Hansiman,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=xzuMgBEN,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-03-23T23:03:30.203+0000)No, it's not. That's why Riot doesn't use just win-rates when they judge a character. Then why would you link me Rioter's Tweet about his crying over high Kayle win rates? >Your arguments are pretty much a copy of a fight that's been going on on Twitter at the same time as you started using these arguments. Maybe because they're accurate and you don't have to be a genius to realise it? You just have to be high rated player who knows something about this game to reach the same conclusions. That's what you lack and this is why you don't understand me. If you had any idea how high rated matches look like you'd know Kayle is bad. >And that's intended. She's intended to have a weak laning phase where she is to play passive. She's a late game hypercarry, not an early game duelist. Like I said earlier - it doesn't matter how good you are at playing defensively because there are champions that can abuse her weak 1-11 way too easily. I don't understand in what world she can do anything top lane vs most champions. Sure you can win a lane or go even as her vs bad players but in Master+ it will be too easy for anyone with a brain to eat her alive.
Marcua (EUW)
: So the champion is harder to play, and therefore should have less succes in low elo. Oh wait... Xiley your logic is something i cannot follow.
Can you read? What I wrote there clearly states she's much weaker. What her difficulty has anything to do with her abilities being way worse than befor? You can make every champion difficult to play by making it unplayable but that doesn't mean it's a good decision.
Hansiman (EUW)
: > No, they don't take people who already have a lot of games on her, they take all win rates in general. Then why do they actually specify that they're looking at those who have gotten past the learning curve, indicating it's those that have a lot of games on her? --- > Explain to me what she's going to do vs capable Yasuo/Jayce/Zed/Cassio/Viktor I'm not interested in repeating the thread you've seen on Twitter.
I don't know why would they say that but it doesn't matter anyway because she's just terrible and win rates are not definitive proof for anything. I don't really use Twitter so I have no clue what you're talking about. The fact stands she can't lane whatsoever vs the champions I've mentioned and she will always die to them in lane or won't be able to farm.
Hansiman (EUW)
: Those win-rate numbers are shaped by the amount of players that play her for a few games with little success, but simply don't know how to play her yet. The numbers Riot base themselves on are the ones seen by people that have learned how to play her, and those numbers show she's too strong. That's why she's getting nerfed.
No, they don't take people who already have a lot of games on her, they take all win rates in general. The only way she can have winrate higher than 50% is because her opponents had no clue how to lane and didn't punish her early. She can't lane befor level 11 at all vs most champions. Explain to me what she's going to do vs capable Yasuo/Jayce/Zed/Cassio/Viktor? Yasuo for example has 2 ways of countering her E which are his passive and W, she can't do anything about that. If he's smart he will freeze the wave and just jump on her whenever possible and she has no way whatsoever to retaliate his damage early on.
Hansiman (EUW)
: I hate to break it to you, but she's up for another nerf next patch due to seeing an increase win-rate in high MMR with this patch. > Despite assertions that Kayle was "Getting nerfed cause Rito lost to her in a silver game," her winrate went up this patch by 1-2% (high MMR went up more) due to the W and E buffs we put in. > Likely too strong in all MMR's. Prepping nerfs for 8.7 that make her more item dependent [Source](https://twitter.com/RiotAugust/status/1108881774614994946). (He says 8.7, but he means 9.7)
This only proves Riot balance team has no clue what they're doing. On the best server (KR) she has only 46% win rate and in NA 48% in Master+. I wouldn't even say low winrate on the best server is definitive proof that she sucks but if you look at what her abilities do, how they interact with other champions and her range then you'll realize she's a really bad champion right now.
Marcua (EUW)
: According to most stat sites she is doing fine. Just saying
https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/kayle/kr/top/master
Xiley (EUNE)
: Voice Chat
Imagine having common in-game voice chat when diving under enemy turret. Would save a lot of pain.
Hansiman (EUW)
: She has an intended weak laning phase, but is a hypercarry with the ability to demolish pretty much any opposition lategame. Again, her lategame ability comes at the cost of having a very weak early game. Often people will play any matchup far too aggressive, which has been the trend lately. Kayle is not intended to be played aggressive, so she forces people into a style that differs from what's been usual lately. As Riot stated with the nerf: Once people get past the learning curve, she becomes very strong. If you're struggling a lot with her, it sounds like you have not actually gotten to that level yet.
She can't beat any opposition late game with this kit, just like old Kayle couldn't do that even though her kit was little bit better. You can easily shut her down with Exhaust or hard CC and her range is pretty low. Tristana/Kai'Sa/Vayne/Varus/Kog'Maw are WAY better hypercarries than Kayle will ever be with this kit. Right now when you R as Kayle you can't continue to auto attack and that's a HUGE problem. It doesn't matter how defensive you play a good Jayce/Cassio/Yasuo/Zed will poke you down easily and if he gets some help from his jungler there's no way you can survive without your jungler babysitting you. Level 11 is when she becomes a champion and that's way too long. Most high elo games will end befor Kayle will have a chance at doing anything.
Hansiman (EUW)
: > and being completely awful in a given match up. That's being countered.
I'm sure you can make any champion unplayable and then just say it's just a counter. In Kayle's case pretty much any champion "counters" her and that's a problem.
Hansiman (EUW)
: Oh, you've been reading the Twitter fight. All champions have some champions they'll struggle with. That's not really an argument.
There's a difference between being countered and being completely awful in a given match up. I haveno clue of any Twitter fight because I don't use Twitter.
: > [{quoted}](name=Xiley,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=xzuMgBEN,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-03-21T18:35:13.498+0000) > > Stats alone don't mean that much, you need to add context to them, otherwise you can misunderstand them. So if she is doing well in the majority of her games, its just a misunderstanding? How is that supposed to work?
Maybe because those stats are based on low elo matches and you can't really judge whether a champion is good or bad in low elo. Secondly, Riot ranking system tries to keep you close to 50% win rate so even if you were completely useless you can often get carried by your team. Because of that solo queue stats aren't really a good indicator whether a champion is good or bad. When you want to judge a champion you're supposed to look at how abilities themselves work and their numbers and plenty of Kayle's new abilities are a joke compared to what she had befor. Right now you can't auto attack when you use R and you could do that befor rework. Right now her Q is a skillshot that can be blocked by minions, befor it was point and click.
Hansiman (EUW)
: Kayle was nerfed because she's actually rather strong, once you get passed the steep learning curve.
She's really not. Good luck laning vs good Viktor/Jayce/Cassio/Yasuo etc. She can't do anything vs these champions.
Marcua (EUW)
: According to most stat sites she is doing fine. Just saying
Stats alone don't mean that much, you need to add context to them, otherwise you can misunderstand them.
Rioter Comments
Father Tios (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Xiley,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=ktRGNcfA,comment-id=0001000100000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-03-19T15:44:00.574+0000) > > How can you say voice chat would be expensive when they already spend a lot of money on hosting the game itself, developing it, hosting e-sport tournaments and so on so obviously money is not an issue + VC wouldn't be NEARLY as expensive as the things I've just mentioned. Also, I don't understand how you can say that no would use it in a competitive game that LoL is. People WOULD use it because most people seem to be too lazy to open up Discord or TS while playing solo queue so having it already in game would save them a lot of "effort". Go play other games with voice chat implemented in them and then come back so we can discuss it because right now all of your points come from ignorance. So how much money would developing vc bring them vs costing to them? Yes - they invest money in hosting and developing the game and e-sports. You do realize, that these things bring them money, which is why it's done.
Some people would be way more willing to try LoL because of it. I myself stopped playing and ONE of the reasons why I'm not playing anymore is because there's no common VC and I know quite a few people who don't play anymore for the same reason. There's no excuse for you being against it if you could just mute it with one click.
: Your entire argument sums up to you assuming you are any different to console gamers, pc master race doesn’t exist, all gamers are the same, get over yourself.
That wasn't entirely serious but it's a fact that average console gamer is younger than a PC one so you can't really compare VC on consoles to VC on PC. It wasn't my entire argument so nice strawman there m8.
: > we can do that in normal games with regular chat! And? What is your point here? But that’s been there since the beginning and is a required feature of mobas, voice chat isn’t and riot spending resources developing it is stupid. > Wait, wait! This is really nice argument! If you playing a game that might get shut down sometime in future doesnt that also count as completely pointless? :D Actually it isn’t a nice argument it’s nonsensical. Playing a game that might shut down isn’t pointless as if you are doing it for fun that’s fine, if you enjoy a game it’s worth what you payed. Buying a needless accessory which will become pointless is pointless and a waste of money. > Your arguments are without any source, without any valid point! You present all your points as facts! Are they? Did Dota2 decided to remove their VC? Did any of the games that use VC decided to remove it? Why did Fortnite implement VC if it has no positive arguments for it? Firstly so are yours, you’ve supplied as much evidence as I have. Secondly nobody has removed it but that doesn’t mean people actually use it. It’s common practice for people to just mute everyone upon entering a game with VC... why would riot waste resources on something that is historically not used. Fortnite is a console game as well as a PC game and one that is cross compatible... as it’s an expected feature to have VC on console games it essentially forced them to make it for all versions, doesn’t mean it has actually added anything. > You are jumping to defend Rito in every turn and thats commendable! But after seeing your arguments all over boards and having to argue with you I realized that you are not speaking of facts! You masquerade your points in facts. But they are not facts! :D If you’ve actually looked at my arguments you’d know that ain’t true... i don’t defend riot blindly, if you payed attention you’d see several times especially recently talking about conquerer, tanks, and how riot don’t give a shit about us tank players. What I do argue against is people blindly hating on riot for things they can’t control... which is pretty much every post on here. That’s why I defend riot a lot, because I do so when people are complaining without a valid need to. And this descussion doesn’t have anything to do with riot, I don’t know their reasons for not adding VC, but I grew up on games with VC... out of the 10 years I’ve been gaming voice chat has added to the experience 3 times... all other times it’s just been a headache or worse... that’s why I argue against it, cause a feature you have to turn off to avoid isn’t a feature riot should put resources on instead of litterally anything else. And I do use facts... everything I say I research, even if it’s not from my own experience it’s from high elo or pro play. I know what I’m talking about. > Give me proof of it! Tell me reason why did from the start of the gaming VC been something that everyone asked for? Why did I keep downloading TS, Skype and Discord all this years? Because those apps are ones you control. You invite people, that works. Built in VC just outright doesn’t. People think it will help, and if you looked at it in a void yes it would help... but as soon as you look at the examples you realise it doesn’t work HotS has a opt in or out voice chat system... in my entire time playing that game (so since beta) I’ve seen a grand total of about 6 people use the feature, and usually it’s only 1 per game. So you’ve got a choice chat with one guy using it... so useful huh. Console gaming... it’s even gotten a bad reputation, worse than league’s, purely because of voice chat. After seeing how poorly it’s used in other games how can you say it’s a good idea to add it here. Your argument for against sums up to an annectdote... no evidence... console gaming isn’t an annectdote you can experience what voice chat really is there. Everyone else here doesn’t have any evidence besides “it would be cool and has no downside whatsoever”, these are the same people who if riot added it would complain about how bad it is. > People should be given opportunity to choose if they want or not use specific feature!!!! But first riot have to choose if it’s worth using resources on it. You forget everything riot does costs resources... time, money, manpower... this is all stuff they have to allocate. So they have to ask when developing features what would actually be best. If it was free for riot to do then yeah sure, but why should a system that only a minority would use be funded when riot can spend those resources on something that would benefit all of us. It’s simple utilitarianism logic.
> [{quoted}](name=swampert919,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=ktRGNcfA,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-03-19T19:03:21.346+0000) But that’s been there since the beginning and is a required feature of mobas, voice chat isn’t and riot spending resources developing it is stupid. How is it a required feature if there are games where no one is using it? According to your logic we should just remove it because it's NOT required in order to play the game. > Actually it isn’t a nice argument it’s nonsensical. > > Playing a game that might shut down isn’t pointless as if you are doing it for fun that’s fine, if you enjoy a game it’s worth what you payed. Buying a needless accessory which will become pointless is pointless and a waste of money. Wait, first you say it would give people with headset an advantage and now you're saying it would be a a pointless accessory. Which one is it then? You contradict yourself. > Firstly so are yours, you’ve supplied as much evidence as I have. > > Secondly nobody has removed it but that doesn’t mean people actually use it. It’s common practice for people to just mute everyone upon entering a game with VC... why would riot waste resources on something that is historically not used. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_omniscience Can you stop committing same fallacy all the time? Not only is it a logical fallacy but it's factually incorrect. It's a common practice for people to actually use it all the time. You seem to be a person who lived under a rock his whole life and has no clue what's going on in other games because he's only played LoL his whole life. That's pretty sad man. > Fortnite is a console game as well as a PC game and one that is cross compatible... as it’s an expected feature to have VC on console games it essentially forced them to make it for all versions, doesn’t mean it has actually added anything. If you're playing in team with someone it's very useful so it DID add something. Stop committing same fallacy all the time, you're not an omnipotent being, in fact you're very ignorant and lack basic knowledge about gaming. > If you’ve actually looked at my arguments you’d know that ain’t true... i don’t defend riot blindly, if you payed attention you’d see several times especially recently talking about conquerer, tanks, and how riot don’t give a shit about us tank players. {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}} > What I do argue against is people blindly hating on riot for things they can’t control... which is pretty much every post on here. That’s why I defend riot a lot, because I do so when people are complaining without a valid need to. They absolutely had control over how they handled voice chat and what they delivered is an absolute joke. When it comes to money they have VC already created so all they need to do is enable it for everyone instead of just people on your friend list. > And this descussion doesn’t have anything to do with riot, I don’t know their reasons for not adding VC, but I grew up on games with VC... out of the 10 years I’ve been gaming voice chat has added to the experience 3 times... all other times it’s just been a headache or worse... that’s why I argue against it, cause a feature you have to turn off to avoid isn’t a feature riot should put resources on instead of litterally anything else. You must have only played shitty console games or something then because in my experience VC is very useful and brings people together. > And I do use facts... everything I say I research, even if it’s not from my own experience it’s from high elo or pro play. I know what I’m talking about. You haven't provided ANY proof, you just present your OPINIONS as facts and act like you proved anything - you haven't. All you do is commit same logical fallacy all the time. > Because those apps are ones you control. You invite people, that works. Built in VC just outright doesn’t. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_omniscience Once again, please stop because it's really annoying. > People think it will help, and if you looked at it in a void yes it would help... but as soon as you look at the examples you realise it doesn’t work Your examples are most likely made up in your head and I've never heared of what you were describing here. > HotS has a opt in or out voice chat system... in my entire time playing that game (so since beta) I’ve seen a grand total of about 6 people use the feature, and usually it’s only 1 per game. So you’ve got a choice chat with one guy using it... so useful huh. You must have been playing at really high level then... > Console gaming... it’s even gotten a bad reputation, worse than league’s, purely because of voice chat. After seeing how poorly it’s used in other games how can you say it’s a good idea to add it here. Not purely because of VC but because console gaming in general is very primitive and filled with troglodytes. VC not existing there wouldn't change a thing, you would still have bunch of children and dumbos there. > Your argument for against sums up to an annectdote... no evidence... console gaming isn’t an annectdote you can experience what voice chat really is there. How is VC guilty of console gaming being primitive and occupied by troglodytes? Once again - you can remove VC from consoles and you would still have very bad community there. They would call you names in regular chat rather than VC and I don't see why would it make that big of a difference. > Everyone else here doesn’t have any evidence besides “it would be cool and has no downside whatsoever”, these are the same people who if riot added it would complain about how bad it is. I actually gave plenty of points in first post, it's you who keeps committing same fallacy all the time + saying some other nonsense like "they don't have money for it" (VC already exist in the game, they just have to enable it for everyone). > But first riot have to choose if it’s worth using resources on it. The choice is obvious and it really shows how bad of a company they are if they still aren't sure after 10 years. > You forget everything riot does costs resources... time, money, manpower... this is all stuff they have to allocate. So they have to ask when developing features what would actually be best. So they have enough resources to create Highlights but they wouldn't have for common VC? First of all it's already in the game, all they have to do is enable it for everyone. Secondly, if they really lack resources they can take Highlights away and put common VC in its place because almost no one been asking for Highlights while there are plenty of people who want common VC. > If it was free for riot to do then yeah sure, but why should a system that only a minority would use be funded when riot can spend those resources on something that would benefit all of us. It’s simple utilitarianism logic. Majority actually. Only low elo noobs wouldn't use it if you ask me.
DutchPro (EUW)
: I mean the company takes the blame for a toxic community, as long as they are typed words no one really cares that much. Spoken words hold more value to them and other companies, maybe they dont want to even give toxic people a chance to speak their flame. Either way I mute chat anyways and I would perma mute vc as well, pings is enough.
So you wouldn't care for it being there either way so you're not really against its existence.
: So, back when I played WoW there was an ingame voice chat for raid and dungeon groups and most of the time it wasn't needed at all. The content being done by randoms was easy enough that you didn't need the better communication that voice chat offered. The one time I did join a PUG for harder content (the heroic final boss of the current raid) the raid leader told everyone to get on the ingame voice chat for the fight. Guess what, that increased level of communication didn't help us kill the boss. There is a lot more to good communication than just being on voice comms.
I know that voice chat doesn't give you super powers but it surely helps and there's no excuse at this point for it still not existing in LoL after 10 years. I don't know when you played WoW but back in TBC days heroic dungeons were hard enough for voice chat to be VERY useful and smart people would always use it in clutch situations when someone "ass pulled" additional pack of mobs.
: Ok, you are obviously very young or uneducated and can't even answer simple questions. You have no idea how to make decisions from a economic (and also legal) perspective. Have a nice day.
How can you say voice chat would be expensive when they already spend a lot of money on hosting the game itself, developing it, hosting e-sport tournaments and so on so obviously money is not an issue + VC wouldn't be NEARLY as expensive as the things I've just mentioned. Also, I don't understand how you can say that no would use it in a competitive game that LoL is. People WOULD use it because most people seem to be too lazy to open up Discord or TS while playing solo queue so having it already in game would save them a lot of "effort". Go play other games with voice chat implemented in them and then come back so we can discuss it because right now all of your points come from ignorance.
: > Voice recognition technology is good enough these days to detect bad words and it's not a problem to store sound files when they're already storing game replays. Moreover the only sound that would get stored would be where someone got reported. It really isn’t... and I don’t think anyone would like for the fate of their account to be in the hands of voice recognition which can easily be messed up by simple accents and dialects. > You're comparing console peasants to PC master race. Average Xbox player is 8-12 year old while LoL is an old game and most players are 16+ years old. And yet both communities are both as toxic as each other... face it no matter how much you think you are above them theres no difference between console and pc gamers... try not to be so elitist > I don't know how you can say it hasn't added anything to the game and nobody uses it, it's such an absurd statement without any kind of proof to back it up. Most smart people would mute everyone but still SAY what they want to do instead of typing. Only an idiot would rather type in solo queue instead of communicating through voice chat. Except that’s exactly what happens... the vast majority of the time voice chat functions sit completely unused. In both PC and console games the voice chat function is rarely used and when it is it’s the people you mute. Think about it, you mute everyone and use voice chat, everyone else mutes everyone and does the same... everyone becomes muted and guess what, nobody can hear each other. Real useful huh. In every voice chat system everyone opts out of mass mutes at the start of every game... why would riot waste resources on a system nobody wants to use. > There's not a single example because every game that has voice chat also has mute option so there's literally no problem with it whatsoever unless you make it up in your head. There’s plenty of examples... you are just to stubborn to see them. > You need to spend money on keyboard and mouse in order to be able to play. I guess it's not a free to play game then because some people might not want to spend extra money on keyboard. Your special snowflake way of thinking is not argument. Firstly don’t need keyboards there’s such a thing as a laptop Secondly computers have way more uses than just league, I get my money’s worth with just using it for uni, not to mention the other games I have on there If I brought a mic there’s no reason to use it... completely pointless. People shouldn’t be forced into buying accessories for a game that is both unnecessary and will never be used.
> [{quoted}](name=swampert919,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=ktRGNcfA,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-18T23:40:34.778+0000)It really isn’t... and I don’t think anyone would like for the fate of their account to be in the hands of voice recognition which can easily be messed up by simple accents and dialects. You know that automated punishment system that we have now isn't perfect either right? It won't always understand context. > And yet both communities are both as toxic as each other... face it no matter how much you think you are above them theres no difference between console and pc gamers... try not to be so elitist No, there's a massive difference between average PC player and average console player and you would have to be delusional to think otherwise. You can't compare voice chat filled with 8 year olds to voice chat filled with 16+ year olds. > Except that’s exactly what happens... the vast majority of the time voice chat functions sit completely unused. In both PC and console games the voice chat function is rarely used and when it is it’s the people you mute. You have any data to back this up? In my experience people use it all the time. For example in Battlefield or DotA. > Think about it, you mute everyone and use voice chat, everyone else mutes everyone and does the same... everyone becomes muted and guess what, nobody can hear each other. Real useful huh. You're very mistaken if you think that's how every game would look like and besides that it can already happen with regular chat so according to your logic normal chat shouldn't exist either. > In every voice chat system everyone opts out of mass mutes at the start of every game... why would riot waste resources on a system nobody wants to use. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_omniscience > There’s plenty of examples... you are just to stubborn to see them. I played many other games with voice chat being commonly used there and I never had any problem with it. > Firstly don’t need keyboards there’s such a thing as a laptop What if someone doesn't want to spend money on it? I guess LoL is not a free to play game because you need some kind of platform to run it on and it costs money. > Secondly computers have way more uses than just league, I get my money’s worth with just using it for uni, not to mention the other games I have on there But you NEED it in order to play LoL. That's stupid if you ask me, you should be able to run it on a rock, otherwise it's not free to play game. > If I brought a mic there’s no reason to use it... completely pointless. > People shouldn’t be forced into buying accessories for a game that is both unnecessary and will never be used. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_omniscience
: If I were playing in a situation which required that level of communication, I wouldn't be doing it with random strangers hence I'd be on Discord with friends instead.
It's not about requiring. It's about it being WAY better way of comunication and right now you don't even have an option to do it with randoms.
: I've played a lot of different online games with built-in voice chat and none of them work nearly as well as Discord does, so why bother?
Because random people are often unwilling to join your Discord even if it would give you way more chances to win the game.
: > First of all people who overuse phrase "toxic" and "toxicity" are oversensitive and you seem to be doing that. Second of all I don't understand what's the difference between someone calling you bad words over voice chat rather than regular chat. In both cases you'd be able to mute someone so once again - it's a made up issue by oversensitive people like yourself. Most people won't scream at you calling you bad names over voice chat because guess what - they don't want their family members to hear it so obviously you would have less name calling over voice chat than in regular chat. In chat you can report them and riot have a chat log showing what they did... in a voice chat there’s no evidence, at least not one that riot can automatically scan and detect toxicity. It’s not a case of muting or being over sensitive... if someone is breaking the rules that we agreed to when we made our accounts they should be punished, we all pressed accept on the terms and agreement... there should be no reason someone being toxic should get away with it, and riot shouldn’t be adding a way for them to abuse others for free. > This is dumb because you already have an option to mute pings so people who mute pings will be at a disadvantage to people who aren't that sensitive and don't mute them. Also, befor you mute someone you can tell them that you're muting them on voice chat so they will know you don't hear them anymore. Muting pings isn’t at all common, you don’t do that unless someone is spam pinging which is actually pretty rare to do... muting coms is extremly common to the point where people on Xbox even mute everyone at the beginning. > This is an absolute made up nonsense. Muting someone on voice chat is easy and takes no effort while typing when trying to communicate something is terrible, this is why pings exist. Except it’s not... other mobas have implemented voice chat, they haven’t worked and haven’t added anything to the game, nobody even bothers with it anymore in HotS. We have plenty of examples of voice chat being pointless or harmful in gaming when it’s not between friends... this isn’t nonsense this is fact. Why would riot waste resources on a system which at best would be forgotten. ___ You’re also forgetting about people who can’t use voice chat... the mic on my computer is broken I don’t want to have to spend money on a new one just so I’m not at a disadvantage in a free to play game that I’ve been playing for years.
> [{quoted}](name=swampert919,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=ktRGNcfA,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-18T17:38:17.628+0000)In chat you can report them and riot have a chat log showing what they did... in a voice chat there’s no evidence, at least not one that riot can automatically scan and detect toxicity. > >It’s not a case of muting or being over sensitive... if someone is breaking the rules that we agreed to when we made our accounts they should be punished, we all pressed accept on the terms and agreement... there should be no reason someone being toxic should get away with it, and riot shouldn’t be adding a way for them to abuse others for free. Voice recognition technology is good enough these days to detect bad words and it's not a problem to store sound files when they're already storing game replays. Moreover the only sound that would get stored would be where someone got reported. >Muting pings isn’t at all common, you don’t do that unless someone is spam pinging which is actually pretty rare to do... muting coms is extremly common to the point where people on Xbox even mute everyone at the beginning. You're comparing console peasants to PC master race. Average Xbox player is 8-12 year old while LoL is an old game and most players are 16+ years old. >Except it’s not... other mobas have implemented voice chat, they haven’t worked and haven’t added anything to the game, nobody even bothers with it anymore in HotS. I don't know how you can say it hasn't added anything to the game and nobody uses it, it's such an absurd statement without any kind of proof to back it up. Most smart people would mute everyone but still SAY what they want to do instead of typing. Only an idiot would rather type in solo queue instead of communicating through voice chat. >We have plenty of examples of voice chat being pointless or harmful in gaming when it’s not between friends... this isn’t nonsense this is fact. Why would riot waste resources on a system which at best would be forgotten. There's not a single example because every game that has voice chat also has mute option so there's literally no problem with it whatsoever unless you make it up in your head. >You’re also forgetting about people who can’t use voice chat... the mic on my computer is broken I don’t want to have to spend money on a new one just so I’m not at a disadvantage in a free to play game that I’ve been playing for years. You need to spend money on keyboard and mouse in order to be able to play. I guess it's not a free to play game then because some people might not want to spend extra money on keyboard. Your special snowflake way of thinking is not argument.
: Except games with a built in voice chats are unpleasant. HotS nobody wants it anymore, DotA you more often get an angry Russian yelling at you than an anything helpful, Xbox it’s common practice to mute everyone because there’s always a kid with poor mic quality. This isn’t taking into account the toxicity of the community or the fact that regulating a voice chat is immediately a lot harder, it gives toxicity an unmonitored avenue to be toxic. 15 games isn’t a big enough sample size, especially as you only have 3 players for each including you... 30 other players compared to a player base of anywhere between 5-10 million... Voice chats just don’t work out how people want them, and and muting doesn’t always help as as seen in DotA people will choose to only use voice communication instead of chat or pings... you’re suddenly going to cut the community in half and those who don’t want to deal with chat get put at a disadvantage... something people already complain about with premades. We’ve just got too many games which show that voice chat decrease game quality more often than improve it... there’s little point for riot to add it at this point in league’s life
First of all people who overuse phrase "toxic" and "toxicity" are oversensitive and you seem to be doing that. Second of all I don't understand what's the difference between someone calling you bad words over voice chat rather than regular chat. In both cases you'd be able to mute someone so once again - it's a made up issue by oversensitive people like yourself. Most people won't scream at you calling you bad names over voice chat because guess what - they don't want their family members to hear it so obviously you would have less name calling over voice chat than in regular chat. "Voice chats just don’t work out how people want them, and and muting doesn’t always help as as seen in DotA people will choose to only use voice communication instead of chat or pings... you’re suddenly going to cut the community in half and those who don’t want to deal with chat get put at a disadvantage... something people already complain about with premades." This is dumb because you already have an option to mute pings so people who mute pings will be at a disadvantage to people who aren't that sensitive and don't mute them. Also, befor you mute someone you can tell them that you're muting them on voice chat so they will know you don't hear them anymore. "We’ve just got too many games which show that voice chat decrease game quality more often than improve it... there’s little point for riot to add it at this point in league’s life" This is an absolute made up nonsense. Muting someone on voice chat is easy and takes no effort while typing when trying to communicate something is terrible, this is why pings exist.
Rioter Comments
Irarius (EUW)
: Why i personally dont want to play this game anymore... after almost 9 years
Riot makes up problems that don't exist. I've never seen in games likes DotA or CS:GO anyone complaining about someone talking shit in chat as long as they play the game and try to win. It's made up a issue by Riot trying to control their player base instead of just focusing on making the game good. STILL having no REAL voice chat shows they don't understand competitive play whatsoever. The argument "we wouldn't be able to punish people for bad behavior with voice chat being there" is utter nonsense. You have VIDEO replays available for EVERYONE so why wouldn't you be able to have VOICE CHAT REPLAYS after someone gets reported? You're lying to us and you know it.
samko1025 (EUNE)
: rank bronze... but well maybe i would fit higher, thats why you should see me, and my main is top
You are stuck in Bronze for almost a year now, right? That means you fail at understanding ANYTHING about this game and you'd be better off doing something else. I will never understand how someone can be stuck in Bronze for that long... There are people who reached high divisions with NO HANDS and yet here you are unable to reach pathetic Silver for almost a year now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBKlzLMj7zY The only explanation is that you're MENTALLY disabled or your IQ is one digit, otherwise it's not possible to be that bad for that long. It's not like this game is exceptionally complicated and hard to understand, the rules are simple and it's VERY easy to conclude obvious moves during any given point in the game.
Xiley (EUNE)
: QUICK + SELF CAST NEEDS A FIX
Do something about it please.
Rioter Comments
: A ban seems a little harsh. I never show my champion for this reason too.
Declaring a champion option was introduced for more team communication and teamwork and it's supposed to be used that way. If some people use it for opposite reasons then yes - they should be instantly banned for that. I'm sorry but turning something that is supposed to create more teamwork into something that goes against teamwork should be banned on sight because this IS a team game.
: If you are afraid your champ to be banned by your team for some reason, just pick other champ which you won't actually play, but is made for the same lane, so he will ban the wrong champ. You don't really have to show to your team what champ you will play. My kindred was banned few times from newbies in my team just because they think it's bad champ, because they simply can't play it. In this situations i prefer to leave and start a new game, because if the player from your team is banning the champion you want to play it means he is noob and you won't see victory in this game. So my advice is to dodge and go for the next game. Even on Ranked i dodge if this happens, it's not worth to waste time with such low IQ creatures.
Then they can ban your champion not knowing you wanted to play it and then you can't really blame them for that. The option for declaring your pick was made so people won't ban your champion but people found a way to even make this nice thing toxic. Dumbos can even just check you up on op.gg and ban your main champion anyway what is super annoying.
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Xiley

Level 52 (EUNE)
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