: What exactly removed from oracle lans? I tried at practice tool but I didn't find out! I would like to know :)
Basically, as you know, you can swap between trinkets for free at any moment in the shop. Originally if you swapped, then the new trinket started with a 120 sec fixed cooldown. This was kind of annoying, since accidentally swapping or changing you mind meant that you still had to wait 2 minutes before using the trinket. In patch 8.8 they change it so the remaining percentage of the CD will be the same before and after the swap. So if you only have 5% remaining from the CD, then you will have 5% remaining no matter how much you swap in the shop. However the Oracle lens has 90 sec cooldown at the start and the Warding trinket has a full 240 (for 2 wards). So if you placed your 2 wards, switched to Oracle, wait 90 sec (for full charge) and then back to warding, then you could get 2 wards again, a full 150 sec faster than normally. This negatively impacted certain roles like support, who naturally swap to Oracle as full time when they have the support item, or most junglers who just used used Oracle anyway, because they couldn't really use this mechanic. There was also a combo with this trick+ghost poro since 9.7. Expired wards leave a Ghost Poro for 60 sec. So if you can place 2 wards every 90 sec which stay for 90 sec then spawn a ghost poro for 60 sec, then in 2/3rd of the time you can have 2 wards and 2 poros on the map without CD. Even supports get jealous of that. As a bonus, these Ghost poros give AD or AP so those who use this method can have some bonus stat very quickly. Apparently the system has been changed in the new patch. So now if you have charged the Oracle for 90 sec and swap, then the Warding will have 90 sec charged too, out of it's normal 240 sec. OP here is not fan of the fact that this method has been stealthily changed and doesn't even mention that in the reddit discussion he linked a vast majority of the people support this change. Personally i agree that this should have been mentioned in the patch notes, but the change seems good.
: So more reworks
To be fair, Akali was kind of the first. She got a very long range dash onto a normal skill instead of her ult.
: What exactly is kill pressure?!?
It's basically the likelihood of that champion killing you when you face them. Let's say that you are on mid and you are up against a Syndra. Well, on lvl1, Syndra can hit you with Q and AA, and maybe she has ignite too, but she would probably need at least 2-3 Q and 3-4 AA + Ignite to kill you at that point. This is not really a kill pressure, since you can just walk away from this at any point. Now on lvl4-5, things change: Now her full combo deals somewhere around 600 HP, so if you fall under that, you can die. If you are close to that critical HP point then her stun would mean you are dead, so that's a medium kill pressure. And on lvl6 the kill pressure gets real. Her full combo with an ignite can kill you from max, so even the threat of getting hit by a quick Q-E is a lethal danger. The question is simply: what are your chances of walking away alive if the enemy goes all in. Naturally this is changed by items, available summoner skills, current HP, position, etc.
: You are bad at the game, it's harsh but it's also objective truth. Now what?
Do you make a comprehensive analysis of each player's multiple recent replays before you state this as "truth" to them? Or do you just confuse skill with performance like too many people do? Even Faker was absolutely demolished in his last match in the tournament, but i'd like to see you say that it's the objective truth that he is bad. So yeah, if you just met someone for one game and you say this, then it's not objective and might not be the truth either. After all, if he was matched with you, then his overall skill level should be somewhere around yours. Or are you objectively bad too?
Zanador (EUNE)
: And old argument, but it gets thrown out of the window by basic economics. League does have a lot of players, but there will always be more potential players who do not yet play it or already left. And if you check anywhere about it, the first and most common comment will be that they don't play because the community is toxic. If Riot could permanently get rid of every flamer, troll and intentional feeder and wash the mark of toxicity off their brand, then they would do so instantly, even if they had to ban 30 million players, because they could drown in the money the new players would bring them. The big greedy corporations are consistently greedy.
That's the easiest one. Bugs are fixed by programmers and engineers. Skins are done by artists. Riot hired the artists as full time workers too, so Riot has to pay them even if they do not make new skins or any other art. Riot wouldn't save a cent by not making skins for a while. Artists can't just fix bugs instead of making skins either.
: Because RIOT want money. Stop lying to yourself man.
And old argument, but it gets thrown out of the window by basic economics. League does have a lot of players, but there will always be more potential players who do not yet play it or already left. And if you check anywhere about it, the first and most common comment will be that they don't play because the community is toxic. If Riot could permanently get rid of every flamer, troll and intentional feeder and wash the mark of toxicity off their brand, then they would do so instantly, even if they had to ban 30 million players, because they could drown in the money the new players would bring them. The big greedy corporations are consistently greedy.
: Flamers are the sensitive ones yet they're the ones being banned because people couldn't handle the truth? Am I right or am I right?
Sorry, but you are wrong. You are absolutely free to tell the truth. You just can't flame while doing so.
: >On the other end the USA simply does not have ID cards or any similar systems i'm gonna assume you meant to say something else. can you rephrase that?
I meant what i said, but i might need to specify it a bit. In the USA the states can issue ID cards, but they are not mandatory for every citizen. Because of this, quite often the driving licence (which do have a federal database as of 2005, but are obviously not mandatory), student ID or passport are used as identification. As such, it is very much possible for a USA citizen to have no official ID cards, especially if their driver's licence has been taken away or if they couldn't get one yet due to being underage. Correct me if i'm wrong somewhere.
: ehm no.
Oh, but yes. Everyone in these topics are saying it, they just don't like to admit it. Flamers flame because they get angry, frustrated, feel helpless, betrayed or another wide range of emotions. Right from the opening post for example: "Nah, man. I'm %%%%ing sick of hiding how I feel about things." Uncontrolled emotions are the source of flaming.
Paper1 (EUW)
: Well darn. Maybe it's not a case of banning accounts then but rather making it more difficult for toxic players to access Ranked, assuming that's what they care about. Force them to play other game modes for a period of time, say a month, then if they come back to ranked and flame again then give them another month. Or if not that, maybe a system where you have to earn tickets to enter into ranked games, and with bad behaviour receives less tickets.
Well, that can do two things: first, it can channel already frustrated toxic players into the normal games and lower the quality of those queues, or if the punishment is time and not match number based players who are determined to play ranked will just create a new account just as they do now. I'm ready to open a bottle of champagne the moment we find a new and working suggestion.
Paper1 (EUW)
: What about making players link their account to at least one device, and when their account is banned their device can no longer use league? I don't think players would go out of their way to buy a new computer every time they make a new account.
That idea has been brought up too but it has a bit too many flaws: For example in the west we usually play on our own PCs, but in every eastern server players most commonly play in net cafes or other similar places. So if the computers were to be banned, then flamers could ruin the netcafé's access to the game, potentially alienating a lot of costumers. And you might want to ask an expert on this, but i've heard that banning a hardware is not without it's loophole either. Even linking phones or IDs wouldn't work either for multiple reasons. Again, in Korea people do have to link their social security number to accounts for any online game, but there is just a massive black market for those so nothing changes. On the other end the USA simply does not have ID cards or any similar systems, so Riot couldn't even do this in their home.
: u all people fail to understan the purpose of rules
: either ur 2 young or u havnt been on internet enough
Neither. Nor am i wrong. Flamers are just a bit too sensitive and emotional.
Paper1 (EUW)
: Hi, not the OP but have read this exchange. I very much want to believe that flamers get banned, but I don't given that most games I play in have at least one. If not that, then others include annoying spam pingers, negative attitude and low effort players. Report system not effective if working at all, because if it was game experience specific to player behaviour would improve but it hasn't.
Hello, players do get banned, quite a lot of them each day too. Just spend a few minutes browsing the player behavior section and you'll find tons of threads where flamers complain for being "unfairly banned". But the effectiveness of the system is a known issue: anyone can just make a new account and continue as if nothing happened. Unfortunately nobody could come up with a way to solve this in a decade, so the situation is not likely to improve unless the toxic players actually realize that they were wrong.
Malah (EUW)
: Someone tilts? Throw it. Move on. Someone disses you? Throw it. Move on. Someone AFK? Throw it. Move on. Exactly, Leave people on chat alone... Everyone can disable chat, mute. Leave them alone and do not ban for bad words! Everyone in stress says bad words and nothing happens. It balancing organism's stress like almost therapy saved in DNA, made by instinct. People cannot be banned for bad words. It's circus. Sport game, have a sportmindset and get ban - Good Luck good people we do not give a f*ck.
You are almost right. Cursing in real life is indeed a natural way to react to pain and other bad stimulation. But _typing_ bad things isn't. You won't see someone hitting his finger with a hammer go to the next keyboard he can find to curse by a reflex. And by all means, if you get tilted, then feel free to curse verbally, in front of your screen. You won't get punished for that. Just don't type anything.
: Hahahaha. Good one.
Was there something specific you didn't understand or do not agree with, or are you just not able to argue my point?
: I mean, you say that like it's a better option to let them flame AND troll. You know what else is true? People play worse when they're tilted. So regardless of your data or social experiments, the people left in the dark by Riot are left suffering silently.
Ok, let's simplify this: permanent chat restrictions = more trolls and feeders. If that's what you wish for, then there is not much point to this conversation. But you are right, people play worse when they are tilted. That's exactly why flamers get banned, because they tilt people. You will have to find a healthier way to deal with your frustration.
: Ok and what does banning serve as a purpose? Why not just serve a permanent chat restriction if you can't be trusted to use chat appropriately rather than taking your account away since that doesn't really solve chat abuse? What? You banned them so they can make a new account with no chat restriction and carry on talking the same way? I never flame until provoked and that's fact. Yet I always get banned and they never do.
This has been tested with multiple different methods. Quite a while ago we had a system which gave players insane amount of chat restrictions, depending on the severity of their toxicity. You can still google cases of 7-9000 match long chat restrictions. Separately from this Riot tried to give players permanent chat bans, and there were even players who asked Riot to put a chat ban onto them because they knew they flamed often and it ruined their chances to win so in theory this should solve their problem. The result in all of these attempts were the same: once people couldn't flame back to a troll or feeder, 90-95% of them decided to start trolling or feeding too. So Riot drew the conclusion: permanent chat restriction will eventually negatively affect the experience of everyone by increasing the amount of trolls and feeders. And so, they ran a few smaller scale experiments with it since then, but last time i've heard they have no plans to ever implement this kind of system.
: We Need A Talk
Because muting is useless. A flamer will not be able to tilt me, but he will probably tilt my teammates who in turn might give up or stop playing to flame back. If i mute someone i need him to be unable to communicate with the rest of my team so they won't get tilted. Since trolls could very easily abuse a system like that, we are stuck with the one we have now.
Shamose (EUW)
: When are normals gonna be normals again?
Yeah, preseason has always been a mess. Ranked is pretty much a "play at your own risk" mode now, because half the people there think that "hey it's just preseason" and now the ranked players get to taste the "hey it's just normals" line too. And so a lot of ranked players flee their original queue. In the end normals get a healthy mix of ranked players, "it's just normals/preseason" players, people who test items/champions and of course a lot of people who are trying to come up with the new meta. Because who knows, with the new lethality item changes AD Heimer jungle might just be the next powerhouse of the new season and i'm going to be rich and famous for finding it first.
wailksa12 (EUW)
: my cousin made the account but since 4 years I just play with this account .. my mistake is that I don't change the email !! and my cousin doesn't use this email or this account that's why he doesn't remember the information. please help me or give me a chance to recover my account it is very important to me I paid money to had Rb
If your cousin created the account then only he is allowed to play on it. The moment he gifted it to you, the account should be perma banned. Riot will not help you, because by their rules, this account should not be playable.
Draig0 (EUNE)
: How do you report someone for not playing their role?
I just use "negative attitude", but you can pick pretty much anything you want. The system checks the reported player for anything punishable and it doesn't matter if you reported him under the wrong category.
: And?
Players have a different rating in each queue. If this diamond guy started ranking as soon as he was able to and never really played normals afterwards, then it is possible that his normal rating is still around high silver. Similarly anyone aside from the two lvl50s could have a diamond level rating in normals, even if they are only silver or gold in ranked. Your screenshot is not supposed to happen in ranked (tho it might be possible in very specific circumstances, but naturally it's not ideal), but we have no easy way to know the normal rating of the players in that match.
: Another case of fine Matchmaking
It was a normal game, not ranked.
: It might be different in EUNE but I almost never get autofilled support. It's almost always top lane for me. It's also rarely that the autofilled is a child and starts doing stupid shit. Again may be this is because I'm on EUW and EUNE is filled with far more childy A-holes. I agree that not playing your role should result in punishment however I think that's difficult to achieve since players are changing roles in champ select as well. Which would lead to them getting punished for no reason
It's definitely not a server thing. Quite a lot of my autofills are top too, i'd estimate around 30-40%, and i only recall one match in the past year where someone on my team decided to troll or feed because he got autofilled. Especially since the big non-support-support roll out of Pyke, Yuumi and now Senna, that position often seems to be more popular than even the Bot. Personally the things i do that might have changed my experience: I fill very often. In about half of my matches filling is either my primary or secondary choice. I almost always switch with people if they ask for it nicely and say "please". I don't dodge, so if someone tries to troll the others into dodging or picks something unusual i just see it to the end. By the way last time i've heard, not playing your role was punishable unless you had an agreement with your teammate. Switches between premades are apparently assumed to be agreed.
: You know what you are right i am making new acc and every game i will ban people champs and play dumb just to test how far i can go.
No need to bother, i can tell you the answer right here and now: you will be able to do so as long as you want, because banning your teammates' champions is not against the rules.
Uraraka (EUNE)
: There is indeed a chance for players to be "stuck" in a place because not everyone improves over time and not everyone can reach challenger #1 spot; but in that situation the "fair" games and the "perfect" mmr will mean that we're reaching our rank optimally and not by grinding or through RNG/luck based games. We don't have to "out skill" opponents because there will be other factors like :champion matchups, team co-ordination, mental state, ping, fps, how long both players are playing in a stretch and even atmospheric conditions. For example if I play champ X who counters champ Y of my opponent, like Rock-Paper-Scissor game all I need to do is go fight them and naturally I win trades and fights. But this comes after games are made and champs are selected, while most of the games now are coin-flips because they're decided when games are made. The game is always unbalanced and some champs will be "broken", some will me "meta" and others will be out of meta or weaker. This is why I always suggest everyone to see team mates' profiles during champ select and dodge if their level, rank, number of games played, win ratio, ..... is not satisfactory, because it helps to preserve the mmr. Maybe it is a low elo thing, but dodging some games makes the climbing faster and maintain >50% easily for longer times.
How would this "reaching our rank optimally" look like to you? Because just after saying this you list the exact reasons why Riot's system works the way it does in an apparent agreement with the reasons: > We don't have to "out skill" opponents because there will be other factors like :champion matchups, team co-ordination, mental state, ping, fps, how long both players are playing in a stretch and even atmospheric conditions. For example if I play champ X who counters champ Y of my opponent, like Rock-Paper-Scissor game all I need to do is go fight them and naturally I win trades and fights. Quite many of these, including the pick order and so counter picks are either completely random or heavily influenced by factors outside of the player's control. And when you have a game that combines random elements with skills, then the natural way to filter luck out of the equation is to repeat the game over and over until the statistically correct result emerges. Basically every single competitive sport does the same: football, basketball, handball, fencing, tennis, etc. Even some games that do not involve any random elements like Chess does it. >But this comes after games are made and champs are selected, while most of the games now are coin-flips because they're decided when games are made. A coin flip game is one where the player or players can't affect the result. Are you saying that if the system created a match for you to win, then you will not be able to change that and lose even if you decide to troll, feed or just go afk? Because otherwise you are using the term incorrectly. >The game is always unbalanced and some champs will be "broken", some will me "meta" and others will be out of meta or weaker. Look up "perfect imbalance". You might be interested in the concept. >This is why I always suggest everyone to see team mates' profiles during champ select and dodge if their level, rank, number of games played, win ratio, ..... is not satisfactory, because it helps to preserve the mmr. Maybe it is a low elo thing, but dodging some games makes the climbing faster and maintain >50% easily for longer times. It is a good short term tactics. There are countless reasons why a match can have a poor start right from the champ select lobby and dodging the bad ones are a natural way to increase your win rate. The only thing i'd add is that if you are planning for the long run, then you'd probably want to play enough normal games too to learn the skills you forgo with this method, because this plan can come back and bite you.
Uraraka (EUNE)
: While matchmaking is bad, it isn't going to check for players using team speak or discord or any similar software for communication and give games like pre vs pre. Instead of that it simply adds some mmr to that team's average mmr. Matchmaking forces us to grind games to climb and that's why players who are skilled can be stuck in some elo. It is a team game, but if someone in team plays to lose they can make the team lose and funny thing is trolls/inters/afk players are not at all punished. Imo there is some sort of consideration of performance in matching, like after win streak or in promos we get players who are worse than us and after lose streak we get players who are better than us. Instead of estimating our mmr with our performance, the matching blindly puts us in some mmr to force 50% win rate and then asks us to play for 66% win rate to climb. Don't get frustrated and keep grinding. Gl hf{{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} p.s: look at players who are stuck in some elo and you will be happier that you climbed to D4 in 600 games :-)
Let's imagine a scenario: what would happen if there was a perfect player rating system and a perfect matchmaking system at the same time? Then you'd naturally be matched with players who are on the same skill level as you are, right? On both teams. Ergo you can't "out skill" them and so you'd have a 50% win rate. Don't you think that some players would call it a "coin flip". And with so many 50-50 matches, don't you think a player would be "stuck" in their ratings?
: Riot matchmaking sucks balls
Riot doesn't like smurfs either, but it's been a decade and literally nobody was able to come up with a solution to them. Unless you have a suggestion? >Why doesn't the game take into account individual performances, it's always that toxic win/lose for the entire TEAM even if you did well. Because there is currently no way to accurately measure the performance of an individual. Decision making, zone control, map control, macro, teamwork, shotcalling, and tons of other soft data are way better at representing a player's performance than any numerical data, but we don't have a way to measure them.
: What would you prefer [toxicity is a fake problem, nobody looks for real ones]
All right, let's go down the list: 1. False dichotomy: you can only pick either a toxic good teammate or a friendly bad one. There are toxic bad ones, which far outnumber the toxic good players and naturally there are friendly good players too and everyone would naturally choose the fourth one. 2. False equivalency: by your premise friendly equals bad player and toxic equals a good one. That is simply not the case, otherwise all of challenger and pro league would be constantly banned and the new player experience in Iron would be the best thing in the world. 3. False premise: your rank is not solely determined by your teammate. If you were right, then boosting would be impossible since duoing with a bad teammate would mean that you are heading to iron instead of whatever elo he paid you for. 4. Another False equivalence: your skill level is also not determined by your teammate in the long run, but rather the effort you put into improving. 5. And finally a Begging the question: "You are either want to win, or you want to lose." You are trying to use the premise of your argument as the conclusion. You apparently think that wanting to win justifies toxicity and you use it both as the starting point and the conclusion in a circular logic. At the end of the day, carrying one bad teammate is not a hard task, everyone here has done so before, including you, so you are just trying to use a dense package of logical fallacies to make cheap insults against anyone who does not sympathize with you right away.
: > [{quoted}](name=HusarzZagladyPL,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=o097p7Gt,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-05T21:09:30.072+0000) > > You don't fight a juggernaut as a mele champion. > You fight them by kiting them. OK. Let me rephrase then... How do I farm as a melee when laning Garen?
Practice wave management a bit. Against Garen standing in the middle of your minions can be a good tool. If he tries to use E on you, he pushes the minions and you back out quickly and farm under your tower. Yeah, you take some damage, but that is pretty much unavoidable. The question is: will you benefit from him hitting you or not?
: it says to check my email but there is nothing there :\
Well, you applied, but the game is currently not live for the public. There were only two 5 days long test runs so far and as far as i know, there won't be more this year. Sometime "early 2020" there will be a longer beta run before the release, so that will be your next chance. As far as i've seen, the "check your e-mail" is basically the "not now" message. Once i got my pass i received an "approved" message on that site.
: Champion recommendation
Vayne might work against someone like Sion or maybe Ornn too, but i definitely wouldn't recommend her against Maokai and especially Malphite. In general, the Juggernaut class was designed to handle tanks. Garen, Darius, Mundo, Volibear, Yorick, Morde all have great tools for the job. Alternatively you could try mages with spammable spells like Ryze, Cassiopeia, Vladimir, Kennen or even a heavier build for Viktor and Swain. Gnar, Kled and Fiora can beat most of them too, but you might have a bad experience with them until you learn the fine details. For example i like to play Malphite against Fiora, because the threat of my all-in with ult is enough to keep her from using parry against my Q harass and i just wear her down, one hit at a time.
: Unfair punishement
You hit the zero tolerance list in this chat. That can land you an instant 14 days. By the way the behavior of other players are not considered when punishments are issued.
: How can i effectively use voice chat as a jungler?
As Spawner said: your plans. At the beginning ask your teammates about how well they think they can handle their opponents. Tell them if you are planning to camp or ignore a lane if nothing unexpected happens. Tell them if you want to gank a lane in the next 20-40 seconds, maybe they can set things up better for you or just warn you against it if the timing does not fit well. But in general, unless others are discussing something, it can be good to just say things along with pinging them. If you spotted a ward, the enemy jungle, mid roaming and so on. Sure, everyone should have good map awareness, but it can't hurt to double check things.
: How does the "grading" system even works?
Well, you are compared to other Malphite players of your server, so we can't tell what exactly you'd need. Maybe a bit better farm, but in general, AP Malphite players in the current meta can stack up quite a lot of kills, so it's hard to compete on that front.
: Don’t need to apologise, reply as and when you feel like it doesn’t matter a whole lot to me (I’ve had people reply to 9 months old comments, a few days is nothing). > This is the part you got wrong. It is a valuable aspect and it is definitely not a poor way of looking at the situation. It is a narrow scope and should be used as such: it's an integral, but small part of game balance, but it does not show the whole picture. But again in this case it’s better to look at the thing as a whole. Adc alone isn’t all that strong, and frankly there’s the argument that they could be weak Support is strong but took heavy hits recently and alone isn’t overpowered. Individually bot lane isn’t that strong, but as from holistic perspective they are broken and take up too much of the game... there’s alot of elements of them which are only a problem when they are viewed together, and often in game they are together... they lane together and they play together regardless of how they are playing. That’s what I’m trying to say, in balancing yes you tend to separate them, but that’s also why bot lane has been broken for so long.
It's an interesting topic that goes into the core of League's balance. The ADC, the support and the Bot lane each have their own reasons to be important and basically none of that comes from their power level. In the case of the ADC, it's main job that other classes can't usually replicate in a healthy way is it's constant DPS from a relatively safe distance and their ability to chip away at defended towers. Each time Riot tried to share these with other classes some kind of disaster happened (Ryze reworks). We had metas were only 2-3 ADCs were even viable and the only time when they were gone was when Riot basically screwed up the whole balance. So it's quite safe to conclude that as long as even one of them is playable, their importance is secured. Supports are in quite a peculiar position. Right now if a damage dealer champion can stay alive just a few seconds longer than it would on it's own, then it can often kill one or two more opponents. This became even more prominent with the power creep since season 6. To this Riot responded with general nerfs to the supports and not the average burst, which is personally not my favorite move from them. And then there is bot lane, which is basically all about the dragon. This one might be the most curious factors out of the three, because even 190 global gold was enough to cement the bot lane as the duo lane as probably the longest standing aspect of the meta, and now Riot made the dragon more important than ever. Apparently, for some reason Riot thinks that the Bot lane could use a bit more attention and focus.
: > Yeah, and Pyke is a very good example for an assassin that can kill the enemy ADC any time and with his R's passive turn the game, even if he had a bad start. And with the second part of your sentence you confirm everything i said: "With a half decent support..." that was exactly my point. If you bring a half decent support with you, then you will know that you'll have one, but if you play solo or your friend is not on bot lane with you, then once again you are much more dependent on your teammates as an ADC than any other role. But then a good enemy support can stop him... again I’m talking about bot being made of both of them not looking at any one role within bot, yes you are reliant on a good support to stay alive but if one support is better than the other then your bot lane is gonna feed, same with adc... if both are better you’ve lost the game already. That’s what I’m trying to tell you, I get you wherent trying to contradict me but you’ve focused on the adc, what they can and can’t do and their reliances... I’m trying to say that’s a poor way of looking at it, better to look at bot lane as an individual unit. And I’m not arguing that bot shouldn’t be the most important, just that it often feels like it’s the only one that matters... it’s too snowbally and once it does snowball you’ve gotta hope they are bad players or you will loose (and you shouldn’t ever have to rely on bad players to win).
Sorry i didn't reply sooner. >I’m trying to say that’s a poor way of looking at it, better to look at bot lane as an individual unit. This is the part you got wrong. It is a valuable aspect and it is definitely not a poor way of looking at the situation. It is a narrow scope and should be used as such: it's an integral, but small part of game balance, but it does not show the whole picture. In this conversation you represented the global / general game balance perspective well, which is a good way to anchor the theme to prevent it from spiraling out. But when you are saying that it's a poor idea to examine a part of the picture just because it doesn't tell the whole story, then you are making a serious mistake. Every tool has it's purpose and should be used for it.
Latarnia40 (EUNE)
: How do I win jungle and contest dragons when my botlane is behind?
Use the time on the loading to make a list of things and form a plan. First question: is your bot lane expected to win? If your team is up against a strong early match like Draven and Zyra, then no, your team is not expected to win. At best they are probably going to farm safely for a while, but the enemy will have free roam anyway. Two: can you gank the bot lane well? There are combinations where your ganks against bot are just not effective enough. If that's the case, then move to step three, if not, then gank as much as needed / you can afford and stay relevant. Three: Can your mid laner gank bot well? If yes, then they probably want to do it too, but some quick communication at the start should be enough. Help mid and mid will gank bot for you. Make sure that you maintain vision control on bot river. Four: If for some reason all three of the answers so far were negative, then check your top lane, because contesting the bot side is probably an uphill battle. Do you have a champion on top that can majorly screw up the enemy once the teamfights start? Then focus on top and the herald. Five: if all goes poorly and your team is expected to have a bad match up on every lane, then try to get your team to go for teamfights and group up. Maybe you all just got counter picked in the lanes but you still have a chance at team fights. Six: If still nothing is in your favor, then just sacrifice a goat. It can't hurt and you'll find enough salt to cook it anyway.
: RIOT GAMES IS LYING TO THE ENTIRE LEAGUE OF LEGENDS COMMUNITY !!!!!
I just love posts / videos like this. "I fed because i tilted, my team fed because they are dog s&&t". then proceeds to demonstrate this by showing a game where he fed the enemy twitch as a lucian and then that twitch proceeded to murder his team. Stellar argument. "Riot wants you to lose." Yeah? why? "well it's in the algorithm." But if out of 10 players in a match 5 wins and 5 loses, then how can they intentionally make people lose more than they win? "aLgorItHM" As a bonus for the video: Tilted flamer joins a match. His team proceeds to play poorly. Tilted Flamer has evolved into Surprised Pikachu.
: Wrong MMR in ranked
The positive side of this is that if you manage to climb with these match ups, then you will have a good chance to skip your promos entirely.
: But your falling into a common trap... yeah an adc might be vulnerable but bot lane isn’t just an adc it’s a support as well... and with a half decent support a fed adc can do way more than anyone else in the game. That’s what people don’t always get past... the issue has never been adc, it’s bot lane as a duo... in fact honestly it’s got a large part to do with the support more than the adc their ability to facilitate, protect, and get kills for the adc eliminates a lot of your argument. So I stand by what I said, the bot lane is the most important lane in the game by far entirely due to its duo nature (and dragon), not much anyone can do about it tbh
Again, you are correct. But if you check again carefully what i wrote, i never contradicted neither your first post nor this reply from you and i definitely didn't fall for that trap either. >But your falling into a common trap... yeah an adc might be vulnerable but bot lane isn’t just an adc it’s a support as well... and with a half decent support a fed adc can do way more than anyone else in the game. Yeah, and Pyke is a very good example for an assassin that can kill the enemy ADC any time and with his R's passive turn the game, even if he had a bad start. And with the second part of your sentence you confirm everything i said: "With a half decent support..." that was exactly my point. If you bring a half decent support with you, then you will know that you'll have one, but if you play solo or your friend is not on bot lane with you, then once again you are much more dependent on your teammates as an ADC than any other role. Way back at the start of season 2 when the meta started to settle in into a form that looks something similar to the others, my friends and i came up with a theory / way of viewing the meta that pretty much held true ever since: the botlane sets the power curve of the match. That's why the ADC fits there so well. Everyone else's power level is pretty much measured in whether or not they are strong enough to handle the bot laners. If an assassin can't kill either the support or the ADC, they the assassin is weak on that match. If the tank can't zone them or survive them long enough to initiate well, then the tank got too weak and so on. Their main job is to either get fed enough on kills or to just farm safely enough to still be able to deal with the bot laners. I can go on way too long into this, but i don't have the time now. But yeah, Bot lane is the most important area, i've been there when this got set into the meta and if anyone forgot it, then i'm afraid that it was Riot, or they just purposefully trying to tinker with it, even tho they are probably doing it in a wrong way. This just doesn't mean that a lone ADC can't get absolutely crushed by anyone else if the team doesn't want to cover for them.
: But it’s worse if the bot lane feeds... a top laner who dies only gives 300 gold, a bot laner is 450 gold... if both of them feed it’s 900 gold for both of them... a top laner would have to die 3 times for both lanes to be on equal footing. A light feeding bot lane is worth an inting top laner... hence why the issue while exists else where is massively present bot, assist gold is honestly broken. This isn’t even taking into account it’s easier for a top laner to play safe because it’s harder to dive bot and there’s no hook champions/most are melee and you can build tank without being useless.... and mid you’ve got wave clear to farm safely... so it’s also easier for a lost bot lane to continue dying than anywhere else Plus there’s 2 players, so twice as much chance for a bad player. Whatever way you look at it bot is more likely to snowball out of control than any other lane... that’s why it’s often better bot wins (unless you actually play bot... like you said confirmation bias... but if top, mid and junglers all feel this way it’s more than bias).
You are correct, but as someone who plays every role, i still think that there is a detail that gives credit to his point too: counters and reliance. Top, Jungle and Mid often feature champions that simply eat an ADC alive if they are left in a 1v1 even for a few seconds. And naturally, the ADC should try to avoid those situations and the team should protect the ADC as well, but without a premade you can't be sure that's going to happen. An ADC on bot might rack up 6-7 kills in laning in a good start, but quite a few champions will still kill them without much trouble. So while a fed bot lane will probably get more gold numerically than anyone else, a mage, fighter or assassin can still kill the ADC even in an item disadvantage. So in a lot of matches even a fed ADC is relying on their teammates to know their job while some other classes can pretty much perform their full potential on their own.
Nar7ia (EUW)
: > We all have those games where botlane just ints and you just can't do anything about it. This is why games are coinflip, you just pray you get normal botlane that won't be the one inting. Do you realize the same can be said about every lane, right? As an adc main I have games where my mid/top/jungler int hard and do less damage than my support, making the game basically 3/4v5. Worst thing is, its far more difficult to carry games as a squishy adc than it is from mid/top with champions like Syndra, Jax, Irelia etc.
I know that feeling. Top is feeding a Jax, Mid is feeding a Ryze, Jungle is feeding a blue Kayne and i'm just sitting on bot, wondering if it's too late to go back and buy a Doran's Lotion.
: tanks in this game are more assassins then any other assassin
I kind of agree with you, in a sense that i'd like to see the tanks to back to their roots and focus on CC and sustain with lower damage output. However to achieve this, the general damage output of every champion has to be adjusted / nerfed first. There are two key driving factors at work here: for one, the average damage output has increased by a lot since season 5 and two, the skill level of the playerbase keeps increasing over time. As a result we can use the CC a lot more efficiently now. For a clear example of this just look at Sejuani. Originally her ult had a 2 sec stun on lvl6, now it had to be nerfed to 1.25 sec. So if you want tanks to have a stronger focus on CC and weaker damage, then the average damage output of every champion has to be nerfed too. Bonus fun fact, if you want the single best depiction of how tanks moved towards damage output, then look no further than Kayle. Yeah, she was originally a tank, who mainly focused on aura items and who fought in the front line to maximize the utility of those auras (stark's fervor, soul shroud, aegis). Things have changed a little bit.
: There is no magical number that dictates skill level. You cannot define, nor can you measure skill, which is why a ranked system is impossible to be perfect. Skill is inconsistent, there are millions upon millions of variables that affect your skill. For example, what you've had to eat that day, how much sleep you have had, other things on your mind, hydration levels, atmosphere ect ect. And those are just a small list of the physical variables outside of the game. The game is an MMR system, we don't have to be told to know that. Back in season 1 and 2 it was literally a number system, an ELO system. Points go up when you win and down when you lose. That foundation is still there, but it's been significantly improved since and is masked behind a more rewarding system. Like I said, it's definitely not perfect, but it's the best and most accurate we have atm.
People also routinely confuse skill and performance. You have to go really high on the ladder for a player's performance to be very consistent and even then bad days happen (i'm looking at you G2). So converting a player's skill level into a number is a difficult task, but even when that is successful, there is absolutely no way to tell how well this player will perform in a single match.
: Not agreeing with OP's statement but there is a real stigma against women in competitive e sports (not from the public's perspective but coming from the people who manage pro teams) Simply put, pro teams are scared to recruit women because (to put it simply) relationships = drama I've heard of a bunch of aspiring pro female players rejected simply because of their gender It has already happened tho, I remember that one thresh girl that used to play in LCS, but she decided to retire early; i don't remember why And on the other hands you have make believe full female teams that aren't pro level at all but they just pick random plat - low diamond girl players and shove them into the pro scene as a publicity stunt which in terms just ridicules the female playerbase unjustly So the pro scene isn't entirely closed to female players but still, I can see how all that would be discouraging to aspiring players
A lot of it comes down to the old sailor's phrase: "women on the ship are bad luck / misfortune". Lock in 5-6 teenage boys into an apartment with a girl and at best the boys' performance will nosedive and at worst they will tear each other apart. And if someone tried to make a full women's team now, then they would, by definition narrow down their player-pool by not only skill and compatibility but another factor too. That's pretty much like fighting with one arm tied behind their backs. So yeah, women do have to fight even more stereotypes than men do if they want to become pro gamers (almost every pro outside of korea had to go through the "that's not even a real job, do something valuable with your life" to begin with), but quite frankly in a lot of cases there are very rational reasons behind teams not including girls.
: > [{quoted}](name=Zanador,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=x00219F5,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-28T15:38:59.663+0000) > > Or simply {{champion:99}} + {{champion:17}} + Ctrl+4. :) u forgot{{champion:117}}
A solid giggle should do the trick.
CJXander (EUNE)
: Tilt your enemies, starter pack!
Or simply {{champion:99}} + {{champion:17}} + Ctrl+4. :)
Zhnjpkaa (EUNE)
: Thoughts about matchmaking
Hi, i watched 2 of your recent matches where you played Leona with your premade friend, and if you want to get out of your current rating, then there are a couple of things you can do to achieve that. 1. Start warding. In both matches i checked you hardly used your trinket wards at all. In one you placed your second ward at 11th minute and in the other at 9th min and you waited for your third ward till the 14th min. 2. Improve your build. You keep buying {{item:3854}} for Leona even tho she scales better from AP. Why don't you change to {{item:3859}} ? 3. Improve your positioning. You tend to back away so far that you can't even reach your own ADC with your ult in case someone jumps onto him. You are either using your own teammate as a bait or you are just giving up lane control and those are not winning strategies. 4. Stop standing still. Similarly, you often stand still for anything between 5 seconds and 20 seconds at a time. I don't know if you have to do something IRL or you are typing or you are just trying to bait, but you can't stand still that much in this kind of game. 5. Synchronize your backing with the ADC. If you are not synced up then you can't push your advantage if you are ahead or you let your enemy get further ahead if you are at a disadvantage. 6. Coordinate with your teammates. Leona's main job is to mark and lock down targets for her team to attack, yet you kept using your ultimate at times and on targets that nobody could reach in your team. Even your premade friend couldn't react properly half of the time. Make sure that your teammates are at least in range and maybe try to ping your target first to give your team just a bit more time to get ready. That should be enough for now. If you have any questions, then feel free to ask.
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Zanador

Level 159 (EUNE)
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