: > [{quoted}](name=Wa5abi65,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=8fTVZjjO,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-12-11T17:01:42.204+0000) > > 1) did you ever do any of those things? > 2) have you ever been punished? > 3) over what period of time is that data taken from? > > Not sure I have the courage to look at mine. sure i have, when i first started playing i even used hard r because i assumed noone would care because irl eastern europe is legit <0.1% black and we dont even have a history that would make that world really problematic, except for the 3rd party tools part(didnt do nuffin), my old name on this acc was bignigdiggers so thats where the bad name reports come from. 2 14 day bans and 2 10 game chat restricts january 1st 2016-july 1st 2018
> irl eastern europe is legit <0.1% black and we dont even have a history that would make that world really problematic Lol, same for Russia, for example :) We have so few blackskinned people that caucasians counts as "black" here :) So, "n" word goes as harmless joke without any offence meant. I'm still wondering what is the politically correct name for people with black skin in countries other than usa, because most of us just have no idea how to call them, since we don't have much of them.
: See , this is what i mean - this game is triggering as hell. You even got mad over some dumb joke , cause that's the mentality you get into when opening the game : you expect to get insulted , mad , angry
Hey, i'm expect to get insulted, mad and angry even when i get up from my bed in the morning :3 For every single insult there could be different reason - i can be insulted by a dumb joke because i went through some shitty games and lost any sence of humor. Someone can insult me just because he has some weird type of Tourette syndrome when he's forced to type shit instead of shouting it. That's RIOTs job to figure out those reasons, not mine or yours. Anyway, while i don't like this weird system where you can be banned for quoting lore or calling yourself a gay when you're a gay, i still think that it is better than no report system at all. LoL community toxicity level is high, but it could be way much higher without any bans.
: First of all , this game is a product that brings them money , and they "cater" to the player's needs , search on social media , news etc to see what is ok / not ok (offenssive). Nowadays , the report button is abused as %%%% , be it from flamers or ( and YES ! ) snowflakes who might find smth offenssive. I saw a french guy on euw go full berserk after another player made a joke : I dont speak baguette !
> I saw a french guy on euw go full berserk after another player made a joke : I dont speak baguette ! What is a joke for one - is an annoying (not serious, but still) insult for another. What if that french guy had some bad memories about baguettes? :) Since i'm russian, i don't like jokes like "don't speak vodka", for example, even if i know that it's just a joke. And i'm totally sure that most of european people won't appreciate russian jokes about "gayrope" :) Snowflakes or not, you still have to choose words when you're speaking to strangers.
: I started playing jungle because I was always playing with premades and that really makes everything better. Now I've been a solo player for 2 years now(I still play with my sister sometimes) and jungle is just the role I'm best at. My secondary is top Nasus or Singed which are both really fun too but way less rewarding then having a good game as a jungler. Even if you often get hate, there are still people who appreciate you for the work you do or at least try to do and that just keeps make me play jungle<3
> Even if you often get hate, there are still people who appreciate you for the work you do Well, i guess that's the only way to play LoL - ignore your haters and don't forget that someone still can appreciate you:) That's kinda funny. I went to EUW form RU, because i heard that there is much less toxicity here. Well, you know - toxicity level is same with RU (and NA - tried that one too) XD But there are much more people here who can appreciate what you're doing. While there are still many toxic people here, friendly ones are not so unusual. So, you just have to focus on those nice guys :3
: I'm tired of League. The problem is in my mental health state, not in the game itself. But still...
Eh, my english is way worse than yours (since i'm self taught) and i'd prefer to speak russian, but since we're on euw forum, that wouldn't be polite i suppose. > I'm 24 years old. > severe depression that was diagnosed 9 years ago So, you were 15. I'm pretty sure that you won't accept that, but **everyone** 15y old had a depression. That's what is called transitional age (i suppose, at least google translate says that :). And while you're 24 already, you're probably still a "teenager" - depends on your life situation. I mean - i've seen 18y old guys with their own children already, who were more grown than i'm, and 30y old sissy boys. It's not like i don't belive in your serious problems, or something, but i'm 31, 24 is not so far away from me, i still remember what i was like at this age. My parents were drunkards, i had same psychic problems, i even was unfit for an army because of my "mental state", e t.c. > I'm not even sure if uninstalling League will change anything. Nope, it won't. Move away from your parents (and don't accept any help from them), find a job, try to start live independently - and you'll forget about your problems. Because you'll get new ones, like... "Wtf, my salary is so low and more than half of it goes for room payment and everything left isn't enough even for food, mortgage is higher than average salary in my town, wtf, how am i supposed to live now, i'm starving, this f*cking world, omg" ^^ At least you'll have the real reasons for anger issues :) Anyway, i'm sure that you heard "advices" like "it will pass with age". When i was 15, when i was 24 - i didn't belive that. Now i'm 31, and you know what? It passed with age :) Not because of age itself, but because of more serious problems. You know, when your fridge is empty, you won't care about LoL, poems, sex, girls e t.c. Fridge will be the only thing you'll care about :3 And gastritis. And pain in your back. And dyspnea. And lack of sleep.
: I as a jungle main say that being friendly to your laners often isnt enough to get something in return, even if you compliment them on every kill they make, pressure the lane regularely and let them last hit for kills, youll still get flamed by them for not being there as often as the enemy jungler, not helping you win the lane you lost, not going for kills with them because you feel that it might be too dangerous and they end up going alone and blame you for their death, not giving them the buffs when they are behind, doing objectives instead of ganking, ganking instead of doing objectives, taking kills when youre the most fed person in team and hope for them to help you carry. You can literally fail 1 gank and they wont trust you for the rest of the game and ignore your calls and pings. Its okay if you dont follow me but a least show me that youre not comeing with a ping at least. Too often i go into ganking top or bot and the laners dont react to that until the enemy laner is already under tower again or won the 1v1 against me. Laners often prioritize farm over helping the jungler when he gets invaded balls deep, then they start blaming you for losing the game. What i think is that if you dont help me in my jungle and i get invaded regularely but noone wants to help me, then dont expect me to be able to help because im probably 2 lvl behind right now and trying my best to catch up. Its a very frustrating role to play sometimes and the laners are often too selfish to understand that you have other things to do but to camp their lane.
> being friendly to your laners often isnt enough to get something in return Well, that goes for all players and roles of LoL, not only for jungler-laner relations. I'm supp main, and i'm often flamed by my adc even when we're completely winning our lane - even if we'll go as 0-0-100 supp and 100-1-0 adc, i'll still be flamed for that one adc death:) Such is the human nature. Can't do anything about that, our only option to make community better is to be better ourselves. > i get invaded regularely but noone wants to help me, then dont expect me to be able to help because im probably 2 lvl behind Well, when i see 0-5-0 top player, most of the time i'll blame him for feeding without figuring out why is he 0-5-0 - while he could be just hard camped, or just totally unlucky, or something else. Same goes for jungler - if our jungler is 2 lvl behind, most of the time noone will try to understand WHY is this guy 2 lvl behind, everyone will just think "jgl noob, report". In my first jgl game i was 1-12-1 Yi in Twisted treeline, vs fkn jungler Malphite - and no, i wasn't inting, that was because every time i was running into Malph, both of his teammates were there to help him, while my teammates didn't give a shit about that, thay couldn't neither follow enemy laners nor even ping about them missing. On the other side, i'm pretty sure that most of the time when you're having problems with invading, you didn't check WHY noone came to help you. Like, you see friendly midlaner near on minimap, and you're expecting him to help, but you didn't see his low hp/mana, e t.c. Or you didn't even ping at least - and you should understand that laner's attention is focused on farm not only because he's a greedy bi*ch, but because he has all those lasthit and pressure on lane problems (while you are spared of such problems as a jungler). So, what i'm trying to say is that while people are blaming you for loosing jungle without noticing reasons to loose, thinking that it's just you're that bad, probably you are doing same mistake (or maybe not, i don't know you :). > laners are often too selfish to understand that you have other things to do but to camp their lane Yup, and this is funny. In their minds, you must always follow enemy jungler (even if he's out of vision) for counter-gank, and gank all 3 lines at the same time :) While most of the time they won't even bother to create comfortable conditions for succesfull gank. Anyway, i know that jungler is a very frustrating role to play, that's why i'm not playing it :) And you know that too, and it's your own choice to choose this role - so you know what are you signed for and you have to deal with consequences :)
gazzo97 (EUW)
: why play this game?
> can someone tell me a serious reason to play this game Because you don't have anything better to do? That's a fine reason for me.
evol (EUW)
: Clean league of legends montage! - Plat V
It's awesome! Kinda sad that video is too short. Aaaaand maybe music didn't fit well, but maybe it's just me, because i don't like that kind of music.
Marces T (EUW)
: Maybe I wasn't being clear in sharing my opinion or did it the wrong way. I didn't want to say that it's wrong to dislike a character because of their sexuality but I don't understand why Taric has good replies on him being gay or at least looking like a gay person even though its way more obvious in his case than in Neekos. Also there are gay side characters in movies or series that aren't clearly disliked by the community. Also I think you shouldn't not play her only because of her sexuality. Btw I will use this opportunity to thank you all for your comments.
> but I don't understand why Taric has good replies on him being gay Because there is no clear and loud announcement from Riot that he is (or not) gay? Like when they're creating lore for the champion, it's fine, it's a lore, character could be whatever his creators wish. Gay, hetero-, pan-, necropedozoophile - whatever. But this time, there is this twitter announcement, "Neeko confirmed first openly gay" blah-blah. So it looks like developers want to draw some attention to her sexuality - and THIS is the part where complaning comes from. If they'll add damn huge banner on main page "Neeko is gay" - there would be even more complaining about it. As for me - i don't really care about anyone's sexuality, Ezreal looks like a gay for me, for example, but it doesn't matter. What does matter for me is why Riot desided to draw attention to sexuality.
Marces T (EUW)
: WTF?
As a human wich fights for justice i want to clear 2 things: 1) Why do you complain about people complaining about her sexuality? 2) Do you want to say that people have right to dislike character for his damage or scaling, but they must not dislike him for sexuality? And in that case, is there any list of "allowed reasons to dislike"? Can i dislike Neeko for her tail, for example, or people with tails will be offended?
Fendokil (EUW)
: As a jungle main, i get where the stigma comes from. But.. You fail to see the other side of the coin. We see, just as many midlaners (heck. Even toplaners) Who ignore our cry for help when you roaming down to help us could have made the difference between the lose and win. You thinking "im not expecting help so i wont help" is exactly what makes junglers give up on their laners and stop helping. If you, on the Contrary, went to help your jungler every single time, chances are that he wouldnt fall behind and therefor be able to actually give you the bluebuff. Or a few ganks. Junglers have their own game to attend to aswell, and being the mobile role that can roam around all the time, doesnt mean that he is invincible and never needs help. Be the change out there instead of a part of the majority. Help out the lesser fortunate.. Help them help you. Set them up for a great game and they Will most likely return the favor. {{summoner:31}} {{summoner:11}}
> You thinking "im not expecting help so i wont help" No, that was actually > if I can not expect any help in any way from my jungler There is some difference. In that discussion about jungler's role i've recived answers like "jungler ignores you because you're not his prioritised target to help". Well, he's not anyones prioritised target either. For a top/mid/adc their lane and farm are priorities, for a supp his adc is his priority. However, if i see an opportunity, i'll go help my jungler anyway, because he's my damn teammate, because i CAN help him, not because "he is important" or something. And on the other side, if jungler ignores me constantly because "i'm not prioritised" or "i'm not worth his time" - well, i don't like being ignored. It's a game, not some great tournament for money and glory, it's a game. And while people are playing it to win, "having fun" is still main part of the game. And being ignored is no fun for me. Jungler can visit me not because i'm worth of his holy presence, but because he's willing to show some friendly behaviour. And for this he has all the rights to get same behaviour in return. Maybe that's not the best strategy to win games, but that is fine strategy to make LoL shitty community a bit better. If you're going to play like some sort of AI, seeing only "targets" and not humans on the screen, be ready to be treated same way.
: "reportsReceived" : { "LEAVING_AFK" : 18, "HATE_SPEECH" : 8, "VERBAL_ABUSE" : 37, "INAPPROPRIATE_NAME" : 2, "NEGATIVE_ATTITUDE" : 51, "ASSISTING_ENEMY_TEAM" : 27, "THIRD_PARTY_TOOLS" : 5 } I'm not using the chat in 2/3 of my games and have toxic tendencies in maybe 1 or 2 games per month. I also never got any punishment. I feel especially honored beeing reported for 3rd party tools 5 times.
> I feel especially honored beeing reported for 3rd party tools 5 times. Yup, that one is more like a compliment. I've seen quite many streamers shouting about "scripting" e t.c. if enemy Lee Sin hits them with Q at least 7 of 10 times for example:) So, "third party tools" report looks like someone think that you're playing too good for a human :3 Btw, where can i get this reports list? I wonder how many of them i've got for my first month in LoL :)
0rcGa5M (EUNE)
: Dying to ur lanner like 2-3 times in a row (to a snowballing champ like jax) and if people ask u to farm under tower and u still engage into fight that would be inting. Running down mid and standing in a spot also is inting
> if people ask u to farm under tower and u still engage into fight that would be inting And what if my enemy simply able to farm ME under my tower?:) Not so long ago i was playing mid for the first time, vs Ekko. I was scared, nervous, trying to farm under my tower (staying close behind it actually), but this guy hadn't any probmlems with diving and killing me 3 times in a row. What one should do in such situations? :)
dattista (EUW)
: bronze and silver are the zaun of league.
Eh, i wish i could get a massage after every report, maybe then my back wouldn't hurt so much.
: Well yes, each group should stay in the queue type that's fit for them. If one is a casual player, he shouldn't play ranked, and vice versa. That's their fault.
Well, ranked at least has it's ranks. And i'm heading for ranked when next season will start just to find my rank (doesn't matter even if it's bronze/iron), because i'm not really interesting in meeting people with much higher/lesser skill than mine. RU, where i came from, has some issues with mixing gold/plat and silver/bronze players in normal mode, because of poor online. Don't know how things are going in EUW, didn't lvlup my acc to get rid of smurfs yet :) And solo ranked can save me from 3+ppl premades. So, there could be some more reasons to play ranked besides tryhard. Not like i'm not going to take ranked games seriously, but still :)
: Very unlikely. Since one group plays mostly ranked, while the other one doesn't, at all.
Fair enough, but still, normals are full of inadequate people flaming others for 1 missed minion, and ranked is full of another inadequate type, saying "relax, dude, it's just a game" after every huge mistake :)
: Everyone is free to interpret the game as they wish. For some of us, it's the competitive part that keeps us here (I'm in this group), while other, more casual players, just enjoy LOL for it's gameplay, and don't give 2 shits about ranked, the meta, and winning at all cost. I don't see why the two groups couldn't coexist in the same community / game.
> I don't see why the two groups couldn't coexist in the same community / game. Because there is a high chance that they'll get into the same team?
Shädäm (EUNE)
: I can assure you I'ts way worse. And yes, the game does have to do with the community's toxicity. Most of the online game shave short matches, in most of them, the biggest griefing you can do is going afk or just non-participating. And also, in many games you can get banned/kicked from games. In League, there are way more ways to grief your team, and going afk is probably the best thing a troll can do. I've heard my brothers complaining about CS GO. I looked into the game and it wasnt close to the stress a bad LoL game can provide. I also looked into Rainbow6 because my friends said its way more toxic than LoL, but again, it was less stressful, and not because I didnt care about those games in general. On top of this all, and what my main issue was, is even if not League is the most toxic, there is still no other game where trolls play unpunished and ruin games every day without consequences. And also, there is no other game where saying bad words is so agressively treated, even though we all have the option to mute. Yes I know bullying is something everyone fights against now, and that a lot of games insta bann you for racism for eg. but in many games I didnt find the option to mute chat, therefore its totally understandable. Also, another and final proof that League is in fact the most toxic and even Riot knows it: Simply the reason that probably League is the only online game wihout vocie chat (with non-premades). Every other game developer was bald enough to put voice chat in the game for players to communicate more easily. The reason Riot didnt do that is because they knew that players would just use it to wish deaths to each other and call each other reacish things, and with a new communication interface they should have new tool to track voicecaht-logs down, which is not simple and probably not possible. Riot doesnt want to put a tool in the game where players can do things undetected. Every other game that has voice chat doesnt have chaos in them. Developers trust the players and players trust each other. This is what League and Riot lacks of.
> the biggest griefing you can do is going afk or just non-participating And again, try out playing killer in DbD, or check out Ochido's youtube channel if you don't wanna play - and look how toxic people could be, you'll realise what is the real bullying in multiplayer game. Or try any MMO. Every MMO has it's own Leeroys, trolling people in dungeons or anywhere else. > there is still no other game where trolls play unpunished and ruin games every day without consequences. Again, DbD :) And anyway, trolls are kinda hard to detect without checking a replay, and i'm totally sure that there are too few players bothered to record a troll when they meet one. In LoL, for example, i was threatened to be reported for trolling/feeding because of my poor score, while i wasn't neither trolling nor intentionally feeding. On the other side, i had some matches where player with best kda and cs was actually a troll. How, do you think, Riot supposed to check all this stuff? > League is the only online game wihout vocie chat Heroes of the Storm got it's voice chat not so long ago, while this moba is ~4 years old now (if alpha-test counts). Noone use it still anyway, mostly because there are no regional servers and players don't want to hear mess of russian/english/spanish/polish speech :) On the other side, it still doesn't have "/all" chat. WoW, TESO, and most of other known to me MMO's doesn't have voice chat either (at least there wasn't any voice in Draenor, when i quit). While Dota has a voice chat, it is the main reason why i decided to play LoL instead.
OnesHD (EUNE)
: Quitting League
> Used to play on NA where i used to live. Heh, funny, i've created accounts on RU (where i'm living), EUW and NA - and EUW is the most polite one for me, NA and RU seems way more toxic. Well, it's not like i didn't met any weird angry players here, who pretended to love my mom e t.c., but any game has such people. And i really don't know why you didn't ever seen a notification about bans - i've already got plenty of them while i'm playing only for month now. > League of legends is the most TOXIC game i have ever played. Well, try out Dead by Daylight killer's role, after few rounds LoL will seem like paradise to you, full of flowers, bunnies and noble gentlemen :)
Shädäm (EUNE)
: League community
> League community Is Dota community any better? Is HotS community any better? Is WoW LFR community any better? Is <multiplayer_game_name> community any better? Try out Dead by Daylight, for example, to see how toxic community could be ^^ People's toxicity has nothing to do with game, or it's developers. You can't get rid of toxicity, because it's just a part of human's nature. And you can't fight toxicity with your own toxicity. The only thing you can use here is report. At least Riot's reports system is way better than Blizzard's one, for example.
: Well, practice tool exists, so that's that...
Yup, but there are only owned and free champions awaliable there, like in normal game.
íGengar (EUW)
: But the term cisgender is simply a man saying they are a man and a woman identifying as a woman, I get why sexuality may be discussed but again I do not see the merit in highlighting what is the norm when it just goes without saying. Don't really get why discussions and introductions need padding out with people laying out there own beliefs, where relevant you are free to state what goes against normal assumption and I do not feel doing that would upset anyone. And that's not even considering the fact that putting this information in this post is pointless, if you want people to play with just look for your own level.
> I get why sexuality may be discussed but again I do not see the merit in highlighting what is the norm when it just goes without saying. Well, i think for some people it's just "never enough tolerance". At first, there were problems with "homophobia" (i'll never understand why is it called "-phobia"), so you have to metion your sexuality. Now there are problems with gender self-identification, and you have to mention which gender you identify yourself. When it will be "ok" to be a transgender, people will come up with something else, like you'll have to mention that you identify yourself as human being, and not a helicopter or a bun. Because some people are always searching for new ways to be offended :)
: Proud player!
> I was a toxic player I'll never understand how people with cute nicknames and/or avatars can be toxic. Eh, i'm too naive i suppose:) Congratulations anyway ^^
wolf jade (EUNE)
: op gg saying
Hey, guys, don't want to create a new topic so i'll ask here, it's about op.gg too, more or less. So, if i'm checking champions on op.gg (or blitz for example), there are 3 counterpicks shown. Is there any place where i can find out information like "Why X champion is a counterpick to Y"? Like "why Nautilus is a counterpick for Xerath, and at the same time Vel'kos (whose supp style is similar to Xerath to me) is a counterpick for Nautilus", "why Anivia is a counterpick for mid Brand" e t.c.?
: > [{quoted}](name=Astis 3,realm=EUW,application-id=2BfrHbKG,discussion-id=bMA9Be7v,comment-id=00030001000000010000,timestamp=2018-11-27T05:30:02.748+0000) > > Well, that&#x27;s funny - on one side, you&#x27;re done with political correction and you have to talk like this, on the other side there are people who are still not used to it and are confused with such way of introduction :) And everyone is afraid to offend everyone. Tolerance led us to paranoia :) What a great time to live ^^ > > Btw, i myself knew what &quot;cisgender&quot; is about, but wasn&#x27;t sure what does it mean exactly, actually i missed you with trans- one :) That&#x27;s where my &quot;he/she&quot; came from XD I agree with you, what a great time to live xD add me, you seem fun, join my club xDD or lets just play :D
Well, i send a request (at least i think that i did it), but since i'm EUW immigrant from RU and we could have huge timezone difference, i'm not sure if we'll be able to meet in the game. And i'm newbie, playing just for month now, so while you're bronze we still have exp difference, and one of us can disliek this. And for the last thing - i'm pretty bad with english, so while i can type and read, i can't understand a shiet if i HEAR english, and most of all i'll never use my voice, so chat can be a problem too XD But we can always try to play, why not. Gray-eyed skinny 19 cm Naut OTP is in.
DoubleV29 (EUNE)
: What champion do you permaban guys?
I'm supp main, and i always ban Pyke. Not because i'm afraid of him myself but because i'm afraid that my adc could feed Pyke (lowlvl elo, some people just can't stay behind minions and catching every hook is their primary task it seems). If Pyke is already banned - i'd like to ban Brand or Zyra - both are annoynig to play against, especially Brand because of his ult.
: > [{quoted}](name=Vuduul Hadir,realm=EUNE,application-id=2BfrHbKG,discussion-id=bMA9Be7v,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2018-11-27T02:44:14.879+0000) > > Hey there, super friendly grammar policeman here. :) > > If you are unsure by someone&#x27;s gender or sex, English allows the use of third person plural pronoun, or &quot;they&quot; instead of it. Your text appeared a bit too bulky, and when I started reading it, I saw a lot of he/she. > > Hope it helps. Please don&#x27;t hate me for doing this, I don&#x27;t know how to message people directly on this platform. I don&#x27;t even know if it&#x27;s possible. Have a nice day! I dont mind, and Im not offended, I just define me as this, Im done with extreme leftists and extreme political correction, so I had to talk like this, you can add me though if you think we can be friends ingame to talk or play or just have one conversation with me. Take care :)
>Im done with extreme leftists and extreme political correction, so I had to talk like this Well, that's funny - on one side, you're done with political correction and you have to talk like this, on the other side there are people who are still not used to it and are confused with such way of introduction :) And everyone is afraid to offend everyone. Tolerance led us to paranoia :) What a great time to live ^^ Btw, i myself knew what "cisgender" is about, but wasn't sure what does it mean exactly, actually i missed you with trans- one :) That's where my "he/she" came from XD
: Hey there, super friendly grammar policeman here. :) If you are unsure by someone's gender or sex, English allows the use of third person plural pronoun, or "they" instead of it. Your text appeared a bit too bulky, and when I started reading it, I saw a lot of he/she. Hope it helps. Please don't hate me for doing this, I don't know how to message people directly on this platform. I don't even know if it's possible. Have a nice day!
>Hey there, super friendly grammar policeman here. :) Ty for advice ^^ English isn't my native language, i'm a selflearner, and just a bit tired of saying "sry for my english" every time, but i still appreciate any corrections, looking forward to improve my skills in english :3 Anyway, i wasn't unsure about someone's gender or sex, i just don't know how to adress them without offence. All this self-determination stuff isn't popular in Russia, so i'm just not familiar with that, and just trying not to be rude :)
0IQRiven (EUW)
: Let's talk about the "preview" of champion's abilities.
Well, the one thing that irritating me the most is that i can't figure out what's the difference between blue and red Kayne and what does the form change depend on untill i'll try Kayne in game or read it somewhere else. So, yes, champ preview sucks. They could add an option to "try" any champion in training room at least.
: This introduction is genius, why is it getting downvoted?
Because it looks like trolling? Neither your race nor your gender/sexuality/anything else IRL (except having both hands :) is important for the game. So, if this person bothered to mention all of this, she/he either wanted to say that she/he's bronze **because** of her/his race/gender/sexuality, or she/he has some own problems with that - and both options are not ok. Like, if i wanted to search for people to play with, should i mention color of my eyes, my weight or lengh of my penis? ^^ Won't you be offended or confused at least if i'll decide that lengh of my penis can be important to you or anyone else? ^^ Of course, maybe this person just want to make new friends, but then it's a weird place to search for them. Not the worst place anyway :)
Gebba (EUW)
: The only thing your first statement tells me is the relativist fallacy. The subjective state that something is true for one, but not true for another. When speaking of gameplay experience you may be correct, but when we speak of core principles such as the responsibility of a jungler, you are wrong. Yes, the vast majority blames the jungler. The vast majority happens to also be wrong and blame the junglers for the wrong reasons. I got the whole ''i wont blame my jungler if X'' part, but you being a beginner probably can't grasp a full picture of what jungling is. You can't know what you can't know, so you base judgment off of what you _do_ know. Perfectly reasonable, but that is why i ended my previous comment by mentioning your opinion is uninformed/unecudated. You make your own defined line of what is your own responsibility vs what the jungler's responsibility is rather than understanding the optimal gameplays (In fact in your elo people are so bad you make so many mistakes you just might as well blame yourself entirely instead of attempting to look at the jungler and pay attention to what he's doing, since it would be more helpful to pay **full** attention to yourself as in such a low elo you can single-handedly carry games much easier, as you probably don't know what the best play as a jungler would've been in the first place so don't concern yourself with it). Junglers in your low elo probably don't even know how to use their own abilities to clear the camps optimally- Let alone knowing how to efficiently farm while involving ganks that lead you to the lane your gameplan is at. It would be borderline impossible for a competent jungler to ''AFK farm'' because they path so well they'll end up with about 1min30sec of spare time which anywhere from 2-6 ganks which includes full-clear. Also yes, the jungler should in fact **not** gank if it has no kill potential. It didn't use to be this way, but this is the most optimal ganking nowadays. Ganking just to burn a flash isn't worth the jungler's time anymore. The one to help every lane, i already touched upon. Some lanes, you should literally not help because it would be detrimental to your gameplan because your win condition lies elsewhere. Example would be ganking a Pyke Sivir botlane that you can snowball out of oblivion, instead of trying to gank your Zed mid who is countered by an ungankable Lissandra. I'm gonna end up on a broken record i feel. If the enemy jungler is camping top against a Maokai Shen lane, that is a good thing. Him staying top so much leaves not just other ganks and drake open, but his botside jungle open. Again, i don't really care about what junglers in YOUR games do. I care about you overburdening the jungler with responsibilities not tied to them. Mind you, sometimes ignoring drake is a good thing depending on the state of the game. I don't need to go in to details cause it wont matter in your games yet, but yes sometimes not taking the drake actually helps you, rather than the enemy team, and you wouldn't know whether to blame your jungler over it or not since you wouldn't know what would be optimal for him yourself. Your jungler might've not been able to gank Akali, while bot just died as the jungler was on his way. Again, lanes can play against the jungler while the enemy jungler is free-farming top, and isn't punished for it because the other two lanes are in a bad state. And that wouldn't have been your junglers fault, since the enemy jungler didn't touch the other two lanes in the first place. I'm not saying junglers can't play wrong, but for every scenario you find to seemingly blame the jungler, i can find a reason to defend it because you're just talking about personal experience at this point, so i'm just using personal experience as a counter-argument lol. As for the blaming part, yes- Because they will ask for help even if it means losing the game over it. As long as it doesn't make them look bad and they can shift the burden on somebody else. The question was indeed why the junglers are blamed, but now you're shifting goalposts. That's not what we ended up discussing, so don't bring this up. The discussion was about the jungler's responsibility. Truth being somewhere in the middle is an informal fallacy which demands truth to be a compromise between two opposite positions. You're attempting to neutralize the discussion, but that's not how truth works. There's a lot i skipped because you had too many questions and i can't answer everything without writing a bible.
> Also yes, the jungler should in fact not gank if it has no kill potential. It didn't use to be this way, but this is the most optimal ganking nowadays. Ganking just to burn a flash isn't worth the jungler's time anymore. But isn't it kinda egoistic? Especially now, with those new turret plantings? Even if he didn't kill anyone but forced them to back, his laner could be able to get 1 or even 2 plantings at least, isn't it a profit? > The discussion was about the jungler's responsibility. Yes, and i'm still sure that jungler has more responsibility than anyone else, at least in early/midgame. I did understand part about roaming midlaner, but still i think that midlaner has far less opportunities to roam than jungler, so jungler is the one expected to roam. I suppose even toplaner can roam, that's what TP is for - you can jump on bot/mid ward if you're needed, but again jungler is the one not tied to lane. Ofcourse he needs farm, he needs help from his teammates, and he can't do much if teammates don't know about damn control wards. But still, people are expecting much from him. Either their expectations are legitimate or not - jungler knows that there is much expected from him, he knows what he signed up for, and this is his own choice - to play such a demanding role. Like, while i'm a support main - i'm a really shitty mid/top/adc, because i have 0 experience with these roles. So, when i'm playing mid/top - my results usually are painful. So, surely i'm constantly flamed for my results - but i'm not wondering why am i flamed. People do not care that i'm a newbie and/or supp main, if i go mid/top - i'm expected to know how to play mid/top, that was my own choice to pick uncomfortable role and it's my own fault. > In fact in your elo people are so bad Hey, i'm a newbie with lowlvl acc, there is no "elo" here, every game is a mix of newbies and smurfs of all sorts:)
Gebba (EUW)
: The jungler's responsibility is out-jungling his opponent. This means have better pathing, be faster, scale harder, invade & set him behind, or countergank or make plays on the opposite side of the map. Alternatively each game has a different gameplan. If you have a Fizz mid lane against an Akali, your plan is probably to get Fizz ahead because he snowballs hard & early. However, that means the lane has to be gankable, and it can be harder if the enemy jungler predicts this to be your gameplan and attempts to stop Fizz and make Akali snowball. But to bear the responsibility of every single lane, that's just absurd. The jungler will focus on what he needs to do to win the game, and you probably don't know any better if you don't jungle yourself. However, you as a laner can directly hinder your own jungler- Or worse, deny your jungler while giving opportunity to the enemy jungler. You cannot blame your jungler for not carrying your lane if you never even gave him the opportunity to do so. Also note how you said mid, top and bot is responsible for their own lanes, while then simoultaneously claiming the jungler is responsible for all of them. That's just a contradiction, and hence why the jungler is responsible for out-jungling the enemy jungler. I mean let's make this simple right, if you keep invading and killing the enemy jungler then he can't do anything if he is never allowed to gank right? So now it's not the jungler's responsibility to carry all lanes when the enemy doesn't have anything that ganks them. Or as it happens many times, laners just don't give you the opportunity to gank them so you simply don't gank, and then end up getting ganked yourself and throwing the balance of the lane **yourself**. You say that all lanes lost = Jungler's fault. On top of what i already stated, some lanes are dead in champion select or eventually get outscaled and roflstomped. Some lanes are straight up not worth ganking- Like a Maokai vs Shen top. I mean really, you're gonna gank your tank against a tank? Neither of them will carry, so you simply focus on a lane that can. If Maokai or Shen ends up feeding that's their own fault, neither of them are priority and you'll be spending the least amount of time top lane. Also mind you, the most important role in the game is Mid lane- Not jungle. The mid laner can gain gold more than a jungler because they're in a lane, which then allows them to carry harder as they can not only beat their own laner, but roam both to top and mid- In fact, they could do it with the jungler, or rotating to a scuttle fight or following up on invades **which means the MID laner can win the ''JUNGLE'' lane**, pretty crazy right? A laner winning jungle, instead of the jungler winning a lane. You did say you were new, but you clearly have no idea what goes on in a jungler's mind and what they do to carry games. You won't get ganks just because you're a lane. If you already lost the lane you sure as hell won't be getting ganks because the jungler is better off ganking a lane that is winning and abusing the lead off of it. Now on top of THAT jungle can also fill existing roles such as tanking or assassination which changes their purpose and gameplan for winning a game. This isn't a matter of discussion, as much as it is you simply having an uninformed/uneducated opinion. I wouldn't suggest making such a large claim when you already state you're relatively amateur, it's kinda like talking about engineering without knowing 2+2=4. I'm not degrading you, i am simply explaining the gap of knowledge.
Hey, i do understand that i'm a newbie with low elo. BUT - since i'm a newbie with low elo, i'm playing with/vs newbies with low elo (or at least lowelo smurfs). And yup - there is the same situation, usually everyone is blaming jungler. And i'm explaining, why junglers have a reason to be blamed on my low lvl (except all those 0-12-0 first time Kayne cases ofcourse). > laners just don't give you the opportunity to gank them so you simply don't gank, As i said, i won't blame jungler for my own mistakes, or for anyone else's mistakes. It's not a jungler's problem if i'm facechecking every bush, or can't set some wards, or pushing empty lane with 20% hp while enemy jungler is out of vision. I will not expect ganks if we're pushing the lane. I will not expect ganks if lane is pushed to our side and we're too low to help our jungler. Even if we're constantly camped, i'd sure appreciate some help, but i'll understand if i won't get it, IF i see that jungler is helping somewhere else. And i even understand that some junglers can't gank untill 6 lvl e t.c. I understand that jungle Amumu/Sejuani and jungle Yi/Li are not the same. And most of all i will not expect any help if we're constantly feeding - in most cases jungler will just feed too :) But, again - when all lanes are pushed to our side, there are enemies under our own tower, and our jungler is near - but he's just farming his jungle - is it normal and fine? When he comes to gank my lane without any warning, without considering that i'm too low to help and dies - is it ok? When jungler think that if he won't get any kills - he shouldn't even visit our lane (while he can at least make our opponents more nervous, which will make our laning easier) - is it right? "Responsable for every lane" doesn't mean that he is the one who should win every lane. That means that he is the one to HELP. Ofcourse, midlaner could roam too - but is he able to do that when enemy mid is on the lane? Sure, neither Shen nor Maokai are priority - but is it wise to ignore top tower and take crab or buff instead? And again, if i'm that Shen, and enemy jungler for some reason decided that i'm a priority, and comes to me third time already - i'd be interested what our jungler is doing. If he's helping our Akali, or taking dragon - that's good, that's nice. But if he's still 0-0-0, chilling with 2 buffs somewhere near gromp - i'd blame him. Since jungler isn't tied to any lane, he's able to go wherever he wants. So, people just expect that he's the one who is able to come and help them. The question was "why is everyone blaming jungler" - and i'm just saying why - "for not helping". Because, well, it'll be kinda weird if toplaner would blame bot adc for not helping :) Anyway, on one side there are people who think that even if their mama doesn't love them - that's a jungler's fault. On the other side - there are junglers with their "great" strategies and plans, always correct and perfect. As always, truth is somewhere in the middle.
: THRESH VS PYKE !
> i will main thresh or pyke Well, Pyke is banned too often. I ban him every game, not because i'm afraid of him myself but because i'm afraid of my adc - what if he'll feed Pyke. And most of the games i see that enemy team banned Pyke too. So, if you'll choose Pyke, you probably still won't be able to main him :) And, btw, why won't you choose Nautilus? He's nice tank support, his initiation and his ability to protect allies are better, and he is easier than both Thresh and Pyke. I'm Naut main, and i feel kinda lonely - noone ever ban my champ, noone ever choose my champ before me =/ (I'd offer Blitzcrank too, but his Q cd and manacost are awful)
: Jungler is a difficult role. He/she needs to know the matchups, in order to decide which lane is more suited to camp or help (and how). Unlike a laner who has a certain job to do -farm, poke, push, defend, maybe roam- jungler has to know all champions in every lane. Which champion is the carry, which champion could make up for a bad carry player (if there is one in the team), what are his champion's strengths/weaknesses related to his opponent jungler, and many more... He/she just has to know so many things and make so many decisions to be effective. The thing is- you will make mistakes. And you'll get blamed for that. And by mistakes I don't mean you will feed. A mistake is also if you don't help at the right moment. In my opinion, jungle is a role best suited for high elo, as it can make or break a game. That being said, you may get bad or toxic teammates (mute/ignore them asap), but sometimes it will be your fault. My point is, people should not forget jungler is a member of the team, and he/she needs help as well. They are not the only ones who do. Plus it's a very demanding role, so they have to be more forgiving.
I'll agree with everything except > Plus it's a very demanding role, so they have to be more forgiving. It IS a very demanding role, so they have to be LESS forgiving, because it's their own choice - to get a very demanding role. Except those cases when it's an autofill XD But you can just honestly say that you're a bad jungler, and if people won't agree to switch roles - well, they were warned :) Like, if suddenly you decided to go AP bot Garen - why should you be more forgiving for your mistakes if it was your own choice? :)
Lari (EUNE)
: Blaming jg
On the other side, many junglers i've met are guys who think that jungler is just a guy "who farm jungle", and nothing more. Well, sorry, but jungler is a role with very, very high responsability. While top, mid and bot are responsable for their own lanes in early game, jungler IS responsable for every lane, because he is the one who can change the balance on the lanes. I'm still a newbie, and for me main rule is "if you don't know what to do on your lane, at least don't feed the enemy". But this isn't enough for a jungler. I'm a support main, and sure, i won't blame jungler for my own mistakes, or for mistakes of my adc. Even if we're camped whole game, and enemy jungler is always there, hunting for us, i will expect some help and counter-jungle, but won't blame jungler if i won't get it - if i see that he's helping other lanes. But when i see that bot is lost, mid is lost and top is lost - yes, that's the jungler fault. One of my last games, for example - somehow enemy team went without jungler at all. And at the start we had 3 people on bot, so even if we didn't feed them, we still weren't able to farm normally. Did our jungler tried to help us? No. Did he help any other lane? No, he was farming. After we lost t1 on botlane, same situation repeated on mid. What did our jungler to prevent that? Nothing, he was still farming, because he was so happy to see empty enemy jungle. And at the end, we lost bot, we lost mid, both midlaner and adc had low cs because, you know, it's still kinda hard to farm when there are 3-4 enemies around you - and a damn blue Kayne, who finally decided to join us but realised that he can't do anything 1v4. I can't say that we lost this one only because of him, our midlane 1-11-3 LeBlanc didn't help much too, but still - it was a huge mistake for him to choose blind farm instead of helping at the start. Not everything in this game is jungler's fault. But still, jungler is the most important role in the game, so it shouldn't be surpirse for you that people are expecting something from you. (sry for my english, hope it's understandable enough ><)
: What is your most favourite champion of this game and why?
Well, i'm playing only for 3 weeks yet, but i'm already OTP Nautilus{{champion:111}} I like his style, design and voice. He's so sad and lonely, and for the first time i've played him because i felt sorry for him :) I like his lane phase, comfortable trades after 3rd lvl. After several items i can become pretty fat and tanky, and i can be annoying af for my enemies. But most of all... Those moments, when your adc messed up, and there is an angry jungler comming for him with some friends... And there i am, like some sort of Gandalf with his "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!!", holding everyone as long as it takes for my teammate to escape... Best feeling in this game for me now :) And the only thing i don't like - all those people, killing minions in front of my face, while i have 4 unspent stacks of trinket.
: Let's talk about flaming supports.
> When your adc gets caught while you were warding or roaming. That's the one thing i'll never understand as a support. Like, why my adc always think that i'm his personal babbysitter and 3 other teammates shouldn't even exist for me? I know that my first task in the game is to help win botlane (or at least not lose it), and i'm always doing my best there, but that's not my ONLY task. Other people (if they're near of course) may need my help, i have to set wards (and closest bush isn't the only place for ward), i have to check dragon if we have no vision there and enemy jungler is out of sight. So, if i'm not near, why is it so hard to play a litttle bit more safe? My last game: 3v3 teamfight on mid, and i came there to help (at the end it was succesfull trade 1 for 3), but i've noticed that enemy jungler is coming to gank my adc. So, i pinged about it several times, adc decided to ignore it and died. "Awesome support, no support, blah-blah". The funniest thing is that when i came back to my adc, he said "go away, go roam, don't need you anymore" XD They are such a babies sometimes. So, i want to say that i feel this post too. But all those Sonas, Sorakas, Lulus - for me Nautilus is the one most unappreciated support :) So many times i had to die for my adc/midlaner, just to make him escape safely - didn't get a single "ty" for that. And the most painful thing is that after midgame people can't even leave few minions alive for your supp trinket, oneshotting everything under your nose. P.S: sry for my english, doesn't speak it well.

Astis 3

Level 27 (EUW)
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