Jökër (EUW)
: Riot, get your sh*t together!
last time riot read the eu forums was in 2009, stop wasting your time.
Goremaw (EUNE)
: It only makes them money, if the offender is like you. You really think "bucket loads of money" is the amount of money permabanned players who create another account AND buy new skins generate? How is 0.01% percent of the player base (or even smaller percentage) of players somehow generating vast amounts of money for Riot? Your argument, that permabans are only a way of making huge amounts of money is laughable.
> [{quoted}](name=Goremaw,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=000100000000000500000000,timestamp=2016-04-11T23:33:14.167+0000) > > It only makes them money, if the offender is like you. You really think "bucket loads of money" is the amount of money permabanned players who create another account AND buy new skins generate? > How is 0.01% percent of the player base (or even smaller percentage) of players somehow generating vast amounts of money for Riot? > Your argument, that permabans are only a way of making huge amounts of money is laughable. the %-ages they hand out are a joke without any background. I myself have 5 accounts, I actively play 1. There are a gazillion peoiple that dont play anymore. .. SUrely you can see how easy it would be to get to these numbers. If you want to ignore that there are obvious,better solutions that would fix problems but dont generate revenue then thats' your good right. But at the very least I find it suspicious.
QFX (EUW)
: Can any Riot explain this?
yeah lets post random match histories. This system is so broken.
Migs (EUW)
: How can this be allowed to continue?
riot couldnt care less about you. It's one big cash grab pal.
Goremaw (EUNE)
: You could just not type anything in the chat. Why toxic people are always putting the blame on the game? Just don't type anything in the chat. Don't. It's so fukkin simple. Oh. So the many skins you have collected, the champions you have bought that you lose when you get permaban are nothing. Just level up another account and it's all just dandy :) Yeah right.
> [{quoted}](name=Goremaw,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=0001000000000005,timestamp=2016-04-07T17:43:45.844+0000) > > You could just not type anything in the chat. Why toxic people are always putting the blame on the game? Just don't type anything in the chat. Don't. It's so fukkin simple. > > Oh. So the many skins you have collected, the champions you have bought that you lose when you get permaban are nothing. Just level up another account and it's all just dandy :) Yeah right. It's annoying, sure. But Im having just as much fun as before - getting an even better grip on the champs in my smaller champ pool. And it is as simple as 'not hitting enter', I agree, apperantly theres some emotional turbulence that foregoes this logical conclusion. I do wonder why this 'fukkin simple solution' is not the solution that riot forces on repeat offenders? Oh right, because that doesnt make them a bucketload of money, which is exactly the point I made in my OP. Either way, every time I see silvers flaming in allchat while going through the ladders I smile. This system is working perfectly.
: 400-500 eruo since season 1? Lol i spend that much on LoL every month, dun cry baby, play.
> [{quoted}](name=Pink Chocolade ,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=0029,timestamp=2016-04-05T08:36:53.976+0000) > > 400-500 eruo since season 1? Lol i spend that much on LoL every month, dun cry baby, play. Yep I am, It occured to me riot couldnt care less, otherwise they'd change stuff.. doubt they bother actively reading the forums.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Shiwah,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=000100000000000200000000,timestamp=2016-04-04T07:53:26.203+0000) > > You're free to believe that Riot's statistics are imaginary... But since they're doublechecked by scientific institutions and universities, I find that making false statistics slip by unnoticed for years is very hard. no I literally mean, where are they? Or do you mean the one sided numbers they showed a while back? Becauyse that said nothing. You can gather statistics to prove your point on pretty much anything. If you're picky enough with what you release that is.
: > [{quoted}](name=Awsum O 2000,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=00160000,timestamp=2016-04-04T07:29:59.063+0000) > > What exactly should have been learned? Don't try to win games? Its fine the competetive spirit is lost on you but being driven is not a bad thing. As much as youd like it to be. > > My point is they are effectively doing nothing (remember, still playing atm.) > > I sdaid I was annoyed it happened. I also said I accepted it's because of how the system work and in the end it's a direct result of my actions. > > I think you're projecting here, I'm not making any of these claims. I do think that higher rated people are more driven to get better at league, meaning more pressure for them to win games = physical reaction etc. etc. > > 'It doesn't matter what the other guy does.' > > I hope you're lying to me and not yourself. o0r at the very least you don't practise that. Newsflash; it's possible to try to win games WITHOUT flaming. A lot of us do it every day! It does take average social skill to deal with teammates, some patience and effort, but it's quite possible. Bad behavior doesn't win games! Projecting? Yeah, I don't think so. I don't like flamers, and I do not like it when people don't understand why flaming and toxicity is a problem for this community. So vague annoyance is all I am projecting at this point. No, truth is, it doesn't matter what the other guy does! If some guy insults me at the store, and I start yelling back, we will BOTH be shown out of that store by security. If someone shoots up the neighbourhood, me grabbing a gun to go join the gunfight will get us BOTH arrested. If I see somebody steal stuff at the store, me saying; He started it, won't prevent me from getting arrested. We can't use the actions of others to excuse our own, that's not an adult way to handle things. Basically, I am responsible for my own behavior. I cannot blame other people for what I do! Somebody else flaming won't excuse me flaming back. 2 wrongs don't make a right. The rules are clear and somebody else breaking them won't excuse me doing the same. We have a mute button that can be used if people don't know how to behave decently. So we mute them and report them. Not for ourselves, because they are muted and cannot irritate us further, but because the one incident of flaming already has had a negative effect on the match, and perhaps with enough reports they'll be punished, possibly preventing them from ruining more matches for other people. Well, you got permabanned, didn't you? So you lost an account and everything tied to it. If that's not enough to help you reform, you'll just lose it all again down the line. But yes, a lot of people do reform, so it does something. People spend a lot of money on something, they'll not wanna lose it. So they'll at least try to avoid losing it.
> [{quoted}](name=MorganKaines,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=001600000000,timestamp=2016-04-04T07:41:22.743+0000) > > Newsflash; it's possible to try to win games WITHOUT flaming. > A lot of us do it every day! > > It does take average social skill to deal with teammates, some patience and effort, but it's quite possible. > Bad behavior doesn't win games! > > Projecting? Yeah, I don't think so. I don't like flamers, and I do not like it when people don't understand why flaming and toxicity is a problem for this community. So vague annoyance is all I am projecting at this point. > > No, truth is, it doesn't matter what the other guy does! If some guy insults me at the store, and I start yelling back, we will BOTH be shown out of that store by security. If someone shoots up the neighbourhood, me grabbing a gun to go join the gunfight will get us BOTH arrested. If I see somebody steal stuff at the store, me saying; He started it, won't prevent me from getting arrested. We can't use the actions of others to excuse our own, that's not an adult way to handle things. > > Basically, I am responsible for my own behavior. I cannot blame other people for what I do! > Somebody else flaming won't excuse me flaming back. 2 wrongs don't make a right. The rules are clear and somebody else breaking them won't excuse me doing the same. We have a mute button that can be used if people don't know how to behave decently. So we mute them and report them. Not for ourselves, because they are muted and cannot irritate us further, but because the one incident of flaming already has had a negative effect on the match, and perhaps with enough reports they'll be punished, possibly preventing them from ruining more matches for other people. > > Well, you got permabanned, didn't you? So you lost an account and everything tied to it. > If that's not enough to help you reform, you'll just lose it all again down the line. your main argument is that people are suffering from flaming? How is this solving that problem again? It's stupendously easy to come back in the game (and 20iush euros really is nothing lol) > But yes, a lot of people do reform, so it does something. People spend a lot of money on something, they'll not wanna lose it. So they'll at least try to avoid losing it. I think you're not comprehending wehat I'm trying to say. Flaming = bad -> people flaming in lol is _normal _natural behavior (due to the way it is setup) -> riot is doing very little to combat toxicity. and above all, two wrongs don't make a right? If you ever get into any of those situations you better do the 'wrong' thing or you're gonne end up either shot or beaten to a pulp.. because some people just are that crazy. Out of time now, but I just want to reiterate I understand why they want to ban flaming. Theyre just being ineffective (
Luis Sc (EUW)
: Have you "really" read it ? Don't be fooled by the years of education and semi-decent punctuation. I enjoy the part where he doesn't really understand permanent bans ( which are a last resort ) and sees them as an optional punishment, after being given the opportunity to reform himself post-14-day-ban and, cherry on the top, compares the system to a sport that uses a completely different sanctioning system. I don't doubt you read it; but, did you read through it ?
> [{quoted}](name=Luis Sc,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2016-04-04T07:34:21.223+0000) > > Have you "really" read it ? Don't be fooled by the years of education and semi-decent punctuation. > > I enjoy the part where he doesn't really understand permanent bans ( which are a last resort ) and sees them as an optional punishment, after being given the opportunity to reform himself post-14-day-ban and, cherry on the top, compares the system to a sport that uses a completely different sanctioning system. > > I don't doubt you read it; but, did you read through it ? I enjoy how you make two posts and manage to say the same twice; very little. Don't understand permanent bans? Compared to a sport? Maybe you should 'really' read the op again, or don't. I did say ignorance is a good way to be happy with the system after all.
: an eloquent essay wont make flaming better, the fact that you are a master student and dont get that flaming is bad, actually makes it worse its just a better written "mimimi my account and my euros" thread
> [{quoted}](name=JoseJalalapeno,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2016-04-03T21:46:44.906+0000) > > an eloquent essay wont make flaming better, the fact that you are a master student and dont get that flaming is bad, actually makes it worse I get flaming is bad, it's a noble cause they have, trying to fix the internet. Maybe you should read the OP again/better. > its just a better written "mimimi my account and my euros" thread Thanks, I guess?
Jonxx (EUNE)
: Well, in the end you're just complaining and think your ban is unfair, while it is. PS. If you continue same way you'll get smurf banned too pretty quickly, trust me, system can link accounts together, unless you've taken measures against it like different ip etc.
> [{quoted}](name=Jonxx,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2016-04-04T06:32:57.220+0000) > > Well, in the end you're just complaining and think your ban is unfair, while it is. > > PS. If you continue same way you'll get smurf banned too pretty quickly, trust me, system can link accounts together, unless you've taken measures against it like different ip etc. doubt it, but I guess we'll see. EIther way trhe lvling is the most annoying part.. which basically comes down to pwning new players. Kinda fun really.
: "and accept that it's not your job to educate or raise your customers." Look, those of us who learned how to behave towards other people shouldn't have to suffer because you and others did not! If RIOT does nothing about people like you then they will lose a lot of costumers. They are already losing potential players in heaps because people try it a few times and never continue due to toxicity and flaming. So if anything, they should be even stricter. How about you stop blaming Riot and other people, and instead take some responsibility yourself for your own actions. It's very easy to sit there and be sour over punishment, nobody likes that. But if people liked it, it wouldn't be a punishment. So, sorry, but I hope Riot never change their stance regarding flaming, and I hope it's punished at least equally much in the future. It's not okay to act like ass-holes, and if you think you're a much more valuable player than the rest of us because of your ELO or whatever, then you should take a step back, sit down and consider maybe Riot appreciates civility and teamplay more than yourself. And the "he did it first" stick is just another excuse for bad behavior, and something only small children should be saying. It doesn't matter what the other guy does, we have to take responsibility for our own actions.
> [{quoted}](name=MorganKaines,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=0016,timestamp=2016-04-04T07:11:58.216+0000) > > "and accept that it's not your job to educate or raise your customers." > > Look, those of us who learned how to behave towards other people shouldn't have to suffer because you and others did not! What exactly should have been learned? Don't try to win games? Its fine the competetive spirit is lost on you but being driven is not a bad thing. As much as youd like it to be. > If RIOT does nothing about people like you then they will lose a lot of costumers. They are already losing potential players in heaps because people try it a few times and never continue due to toxicity and flaming. So if anything, they should be even stricter. My point is they are effectively doing nothing (remember, still playing atm.) > How about you stop blaming Riot and other people, and instead take some responsibility yourself for your own actions. It's very easy to sit there and be sour over punishment, nobody likes that. But if people liked it, it wouldn't be a punishment. I sdaid I was annoyed it happened. I also said I accepted it's because of how the system work and in the end it's a direct result of my actions. > So, sorry, but I hope Riot never change their stance regarding flaming, and I hope it's punished at least equally much in the future. It's not okay to act like ass-holes, and if you think you're a much more valuable player than the rest of us because of your ELO or whatever, then you should take a step back, sit down and consider maybe Riot appreciates civility and teamplay more than yourself. I think you're projecting here, I'm not making any of these claims. I do think that higher rated people are more driven to get better at league, meaning more pressure for them to win games = physical reaction etc. etc. > And the "he did it first" stick is just another excuse for bad behavior, and something only small children should be saying. It doesn't matter what the other guy does, we have to take responsibility for our own actions. 'It doesn't matter what the other guy does.' I hope you're lying to me and not yourself. o0r at the very least you don't practise that.
: > [{quoted}](name=gothrian,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-04-03T20:57:54.593+0000) > > They could just remove the chat instead. i mean 9/10 of all my games i have toxic people in it. > and a permaban wont do anything except make people just get a smurf, level it up and start flaming again. Actually, the statistics show a lot of people reform after a ban or a severe punishment. Remember, starting up a smurf won't give them the money back that they spent on skins, champs, etc. They lose everything with a permaban.
> [{quoted}](name=MorganKaines,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=0001000000000002,timestamp=2016-04-04T07:14:43.601+0000) > > Actually, the statistics show a lot of people reform after a ban or a severe punishment. Remember, starting up a smurf won't give them the money back that they spent on skins, champs, etc. They lose everything with a permaban. what statistics would that be? THe imaginairy ones? with the new system it cost me about 20 euros to get the champs& skins I was playing for the 2 roles I wanted. annoying, but not exactly like losing a toe
Luis Sc (EUW)
: Honestly, I don't think anyone upvoting read your comment; there's a wall of text that contradicts itself every single paragraph. You seem to misunderstand the purpose of certaik tools or pointers or punishments and your analogies are completely out of context. Good luck on your new account; don't get that one banned too.
> [{quoted}](name=Luis Sc,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=0017,timestamp=2016-04-04T07:19:50.719+0000) > > Honestly, I don't think anyone upvoting read your comment; there's a wall of text that contradicts itself every single paragraph. > > You seem to misunderstand the purpose of certaik tools or pointers or punishments and your analogies are completely out of context. > > Good luck on your new account; don't get that one banned too. Honestly I think making unsubstantiated claims without further elaboration isn't very usefull. Thank you, I won't.. I didnt in the past 7 years after all
: I read everything u said really well..... and actually i hope not to see u in game...u got banned for a reason and it is not other players behavior it was because of your behavior....so i say it again.... i hope to not see you in a game....ad it is not a matter of game ability, you are probably better than me in champion pool, mechanical ability and so on but could actually be a worst player for your behavior....
> [{quoted}](name=Shrimperino,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=000f00000000,timestamp=2016-04-03T20:28:01.048+0000) > > I read everything u said really well..... > and actually i hope not to see u in game...u got banned for a reason and it is not other players behavior it was because of your behavior....so i say it again.... > i hope to not see you in a game....ad it is not a matter of game ability, you are probably better than me in champion pool, mechanical ability and so on but could actually be a worst player for your behavior.... Hope really is the only thing you have. Better cross fingers and toes because the tribunal won't protect you from bad bad people like me. Which is pretty much the entire point, which is apperantly escaping your understanding.. or you're trolling.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Shiwah,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=0009000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-03T20:23:16.545+0000) > > Because I don't bottle the frustration up. I change game and let it wash away into nothingness. I thought you didnt get frustrated? Either way, it seems unhealthy to bottle that up. Especially since there is no reason other than riots illogical flawed system not to. And between getting annoyed and 'changing the game and calming down' is atleast the length of the game (or you'll be flagged as a leaver). My way is quicker and gives you a true sense of feet firmly planted in the ground. > We could argue that our democracy system is based on the fact that only a fraction of the population takes the decisions for everyone. > It can't work like in ancient Athenes, simply for the sheer size of the population. > > Tribunal voted to punish mostly flamers. It seems obvious that the voters would read the chat. My point here was twofold: 1. The thing is that they can _only _read the chat, it's similar to judging art with only one of your senses. I.e. touch, you can feel it but you cant see smell or hear it. You'd get some sense of the moist thing in your hands but without seeing its brown and smelling the shit you wont ever reckognise it as a pile of dung. 2. What sort of people bother judging tribunal cases? I highly doubt a well rounded out person with a healthy grasp on social interaction is spending even half a second on doing that. > And btw, standing in base is detected by Leaverbuster. And the troll cares why? Also its not exactly hard to pick up on the subtle clue of the gigantic warning in the middle of your screen, IF afking was the only way of being toxic other than chat. (list in the next section) > In LoL, muting someone is the equivalent of running away. Flaming him back is the equivalent of punching him back. This would be true if they had no other way of trolling you/being toxic (take a pick from: taking your farm,going afk,feeding,pingspamming) > Which one is the act that makes the most sense and bears the least negative consequence for yourself? > > Actually, why do you even feed the troll, by flaming him back? Instant gratification.
: > [{quoted}](name=Awsum O 2000,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=000900000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-04-03T19:51:18.796+0000) > > IF you find flamers a huge annoyance you should be hugely annoyed by the tribunal system forcing them to start over with a clean slate. > > I do wonder that when you say' You're actively making playing this game a worse experience for me and for countless others just so that you can vent'. What about others making this game worse for people that want to play competively? That's after all what ranked is for, people can go bananas and get away unpunished as long as they do not hit enter, is that fair? Why do you ostracize people that play the game for a different reason than you? If you're annoyed by people predictively behaving the way people do because of how the game work then you could make a 5 man group and hug it out and never get upset at eachother just as well. > Yes I would rather have them be unable to play this game ever again, but I don't think it is possible to make this happen for technological reasons. I never said that I don't play competitively either. I try to play as best as I can in all my games. But I also want to enjoy the time I spend playing this game and you flaming me or anyone on my team not only ruins the fun but it usually also lowers my chances of winning. I have won gameswhere the other team had a 10k gold lead at 30 mins, with a 0/10 toplaner, with me being support in a 0/8 botlane and many more like this. But do you know what all these games had in common? Players who stayed positive and did not waste their time flaming. I almost never come back in a game where people start flaming. I've had intentional feeders and trolls in my games as well and I wish for these people to be banned as much as you do and I do think Riot could do a better job at that. But I do not think that is an excuse for anyone to ruin the game even more by flaming. And I also get upset at people but I am able to either make my criticism constructive or to just stay silent. > If you would want to stop people flaming, stop them from being able to chat/ping , fixing the actual reasons for toxic behavior. The current system does _none_ of this. > You have made clear that you use flaming as a way of venting your emotions. I don't think that you would suddenly loose the need to vent just because you can't chat. Flamers can find so many other ways to be toxic in this game and so taking away their pings/chat (which also makes communication with their team so much harder) is not an effective solution to this problem. As far as I am concerned the problem is fixed, since flamers will be unable to flame after being banned permanently. > The fact you're going along with logical fallacies not reckognising any fault (or atleast not coming up with an argument other than 'this is how it works you deal with it') makes you a fanboy. The fact you cant call an asshole an asshole because hes being an asshole makes it a SJW thing. > I would like for you to point out the exact nature of my logical fallacy here. Also my point is not "this is how it works you deal with it", My argument is that that I think the system benefits the majority of players and makes the game more enjoyable for them. And why would I argue against a system that I think makes the game better for me? If that makes me a fanboy then so be it. And this is not about being able to call anyonme an asshole or not. Do I think the intentional feeder or the flamer is an asshole...yes sure I do. But I do not think that gives anyone the right to behave like an asshole as well just because someone else did it first. > Either way, I appreciate (and even agree) your stance on flamers being annoying. As a 'flamer' I have a fresh close up perspective on why the current system is doing diddley squat for the problem. If thats fine with you then theres no point to discussing this further. I encounter real flamers in a low percentage of my game (probably around 5% or lower), so I think the system indeed solves the problem just fine.
> [{quoted}](name=Fimbulvethr,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=0009000000000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2016-04-03T20:13:17.776+0000) > As far as I am concerned the problem is fixed, since flamers will be unable to flame after being banned permanently. > Ehh, no (point in case I just played a game after getting permbanned this morning) > I would like for you to point out the exact nature of my logical fallacy here. Also my point is not "this is how it works you deal with it", My argument is that that I think the system benefits the majority of players and makes the game more enjoyable for them. And why would I argue against a system that I think makes the game better for me? If that makes me a fanboy then so be it. I think at the very least we're working with different numbers (nothing is shared with the public so it's a guessing game either way) > And this is not about being able to call anyonme an asshole or not. Do I think the intentional feeder or the flamer is an asshole...yes sure I do. But I do not think that gives anyone the right to behave like an asshole as well just because someone else did it first. It's not a pretty solution sure, but you get shit on by feeders and flamers who willingly ruin your free time, I make sure they know whats going on, and it feels great. > I encounter real flamers in a low percentage of my game (probably around 5% or lower), so I think the system indeed solves the problem just fine. Either you're not playing ranked, you're lying or your desillusional. Off for now, goodnight!
: Why are permabans? Dude it s not like you got banned one day out of nowhere (you said yourself that u got a 14 days ban before). Probably you ruined the experience of so many players that yes....for league players it is better not to play with you and the ultimate way to do that (when other means are not enough) is to permaban. I'm sorry for the money (even thought if u want to play league at a competitive level you don't need money) but you should consider that you actually knew the risk of losing that all and still you behave so that other people reported you. I agree with you the tribunal does not work well but for the opposite reason....there should be many more people chat restricted and banned, there are too many people ruining the experience of other people just because that take the game way too serious (in a negative way ofc) and unfortunately the reason they keep being toxic is that the system allows them to do so with little to no punishment most of the time. Still a good way to improve the system would be to show to the player the number of reports that he gets and what he actually risk if he get to a certain amount.... Why reforming? You are ruining my experience! I play a game to have fun first of all and i find myself playing with iper aggressive toxic people! So Riot (instead of kicking you out right away) gives u a chance to improve yourself...unfortunately you didn't...... bye....
> [{quoted}](name=Shrimperino,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2016-04-03T20:03:34.615+0000) > > Why are permabans? > Dude it s not like you got banned one day out of nowhere (you said yourself that u got a 14 days ban before). > Probably you ruined the experience of so many players that yes....for league players it is better not to play with you and the ultimate way to do that (when other means are not enough) is to permaban. > I'm sorry for the money (even thought if u want to play league at a competitive level you don't need money) but you should consider that you actually knew the risk of losing that all and still you behave so that other people reported you. > > I agree with you the tribunal does not work well but for the opposite reason....there should be many more people chat restricted and banned, there are too many people ruining the experience of other people just because that take the game way too serious (in a negative way ofc) and unfortunately the reason they keep being toxic is that the system allows them to do so with little to no punishment most of the time. > > Still a good way to improve the system would be to show to the player the number of reports that he gets and what he actually risk if he get to a certain amount.... > > Why reforming? > You are ruining my experience! I play a game to have fun first of all and i find myself playing with iper aggressive toxic people! So Riot (instead of kicking you out right away) gives u a chance to improve yourself...unfortunately you didn't...... > > bye.... You didnt read anything of what I have written have you? See you in game!
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
> You know, I used to share this mindset till a couple years ago. > Then I realized that getting my blood poisoned over what's basically _nothing_ consequential to my life was not only useless, but also stupid. When someones an ass to me, I don't see why I'd put time or energy into bottling up the frustration when I can just as easily speak my mind. I surely wont stop for the notion of getting permabanned once every 7 or so years. Ill admit its an annoyance, but little more than that. > Why not? They're the owner of the game, they are the ones who can, and should, set the rules to play it. True,I'm not denying its' a noble cause. It's also naive and wholly ineffective. Especially not when their biggest threat is giving you a clean slate. Point in case: look at the state of the game. Go play 5 ranked games, if none of them have someone flaming in allchat or trolling, pinging the shit out of someone. Then consider me silenced. Heck, make it 3 games. > And tbh not being a jerk works wonders when you have to work in a team. > > Again, the way you put it goes against how society fundamentally functions, not to mention that it can turn pretty badly if you use those methods in real life too ^^ I consider myself quite the team play, as said I am generally considered social (or so I think atleast). Maybe its' the lack of repercussions or maybe its because people arent a total douche to me irl, either way its a problem that I only have in lol (not even in other similarily competetive games like mmo's or rpgs etc. ) > That's funny, because the Tribunal punishes what _players themselves_ deemed punishable. And the people taking their time to judge in the tribunal are representable of 'everyone'? It seems awfully tedious and boring, takes a special kind of person to put up with that. And thats not taking into account the fact that even in jury systems theres always a judge with 20 or so years of law experience (and a law degree) makes the final ruling. I have very little faith in the grasping of the concept of nuance when it comes tothe avg tribunal voter. (also what exactly DO they see when they vote, text. Someone could be spamming pings, standing in base, dancing on peoples corpses or w/e way more toxic. Call him an ass for it and you get burnt and the actual toxic dude gets away unpunished. > And the SC is basically a ruleset that's used pretty much everywhere in real life you have to interact with other people - it's simple common sense. Common sense is punching the guy that punches you, or running away. Standing there and letting him punch is not, common sense.
: > [{quoted}](name=Awsum O 2000,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=0009000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-03T19:22:33.670+0000) > > Yeah, I don't.. someone calls me a whatever range of shit ppl say, I'm going to speak my mind. Someone goes 0/8 , screwing over the other 4 randoms despite being asked to play supersafe - effectively ruining the game, I'm going to speak my mind. And theres absolutely nothing wrong with that. And while "don't be a jerk" might be the reasoning behind their rules, its not their place, its not remotely within their ability and at best its really, really naive to think they can pull it off as a game peddler.(not games, just the one game) > > Or, and this seems more likely, they do it to cash in one some easy money while appeasing SJW's. A better company image + a higher income, it's pretty ingenious if you think about it. > > Whats atleast as interesting as their flawed solution (to admittedly a noble cause) is how many people fanboy and go along with it. Or perhaps acceptance is easyer when you realise you have zero say in the matter. You are of course free to call people whatever you like for whatever reasons you believe to be valid, but then you also have to face the consequences. It may be that there is nothing wrong with that for you but for plenty of others there is. Social Justice Warriors and fanboys have nothing to do with this. I don't care for the good cause, I just think that flamers are a huge annoyance. You're actively making playing this game a worse experience for me and for countless others just so that you can vent. You tilt people even more when they play bad and you make the game a negative experience for everyone involved. Many people playing this game want to have fun before anything else and that is completely ok. If you want to go full competitive then create a 5 man team where you can flame each other as much as you want to. But I don't want to sit through a game with 2 people flaming each other (wasting time and brainpower they could use to play better) and many others don't want to either and that is why you get reported and banned. It's not about social justice or anyone not having a spine. It's about you and other flamers being extremely annoying to play with.
> [{quoted}](name=Fimbulvethr,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=00090000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2016-04-03T19:37:51.488+0000) > > You are of course free to call people whatever you like for whatever reasons you believe to be valid, but then you also have to face the consequences. It may be that there is nothing wrong with that for you but for plenty of others there is. > > Social Justice Warriors and fanboys have nothing to do with this. I don't care for the good cause, I just think that flamers are a huge annoyance. You're actively making playing this game a worse experience for me and for countless others just so that you can vent. You tilt people even more when they play bad and you make the game a negative experience for everyone involved. Many people playing this game want to have fun before anything else and that is completely ok. If you want to go full competitive then create a 5 man team where you can flame each other as much as you want to. But I don't want to sit through a game with 2 people flaming each other (wasting time and brainpower they could use to play better) and many others don't want to either and that is why you get reported and banned. It's not about social justice or anyone not having a spine. It's about you and other flamers being extremely annoying to play with. IF you find flamers a huge annoyance you should be hugely annoyed by the tribunal system forcing them to start over with a clean slate. I do wonder that when you say' You're actively making playing this game a worse experience for me and for countless others just so that you can vent'. What about others making this game worse for people that want to play competively? That's after all what ranked is for, people can go bananas and get away unpunished as long as they do not hit enter, is that fair? Why do you ostracize people that play the game for a different reason than you? If you're annoyed by people predictively behaving the way people do because of how the game work then you could make a 5 man group and hug it out and never get upset at eachother just as well. If you would want to stop people flaming, stop them from being able to chat/ping , fixing the actual reasons for toxic behavior. The current system does _none_ of this. The fact you're going along with logical fallacies not reckognising any fault (or atleast not coming up with an argument other than 'this is how it works you deal with it') makes you a fanboy. The fact you cant call an asshole an asshole because hes being an asshole makes it a SJW thing. Either way, I appreciate (and even agree) your stance on flamers being annoying. As a 'flamer' I have a fresh close up perspective on why the current system is doing diddley squat for the problem. If thats fine with you then theres no point to discussing this further.
Aiwenore (EUW)
: I do not understand.... It is so hard to rage IRL instead of pressing enter and burn the trees of the map with your flame? Just curse them IRL and you will be ok. Plus, if u do not want to be heard 'cause ppl around you could think " wtf is this guys doing ?", curse them in your mind. You could even borrow a plushie ( a Teemo one would be nice ) from your sis and punch it right in the freakin smile. RESULT: You will not be toxic, your allies could even throw the game in a victory for your team The trees of the Summoner's Rift will be happy becase you let them live another day Your sister is happy because you utterly destroyed the plushie that gave her nightmares
> [{quoted}](name=Aiwenore,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2016-04-03T19:28:27.785+0000) > > I do not understand.... It is so hard to rage IRL instead of pressing enter and burn the trees of the map with your flame? Just curse them IRL and you will be ok. Plus, if u do not want to be heard 'cause ppl around you could think " wtf is this guys doing ?", curse them in your mind. You could even borrow a plushie ( a Teemo one would be nice ) from your sis and punch it right in the freakin smile. > > RESULT: > You will not be toxic, your allies could even throw the game in a victory for your team > The trees of the Summoner's Rift will be happy becase you let them live another day > Your sister is happy because you utterly destroyed the plushie that gave her nightmares Hehe, getting a teemo plushie might be the solution Thanks pal I'll give it a whirl hehe ;)
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Shiwah,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=000900000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-03T19:12:32.039+0000) > > The reasoning behind Riot's rules is "don't be a jerk". > > Which isn't really difficult to accomplish, since all you have to do is control your instict to retaliate in kind. > > To be honest I feel in peace with myself for the simple reason that I feel morally superior to those wishing cancer to me and me not even acknowleding them. Yeah, I don't.. someone calls me a whatever range of shit ppl say, I'm going to speak my mind. Someone goes 0/8 , screwing over the other 4 randoms despite being asked to play supersafe - effectively ruining the game, I'm going to speak my mind. And theres absolutely nothing wrong with that. And while "don't be a jerk" might be the reasoning behind their rules, its not their place, its not remotely within their ability and at best its really, really naive to think they can pull it off as a game peddler.(not games, just the one game) Or, and this seems more likely, they do it to cash in one some easy money while appeasing SJW's. A better company image + a higher income, it's pretty ingenious if you think about it. Instincts have an evolutionary basis (i.e. what served life well over billions of years) , bending over and taking peoples crap does not. It's not called fight or flight or take a beating after all. Whats atleast as interesting as their flawed solution (to admittedly a noble cause) is how many people fanboy and go along with it. Or perhaps acceptance is easyer when you realise you have zero say in the matter.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Shiwah,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=0009000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-03T17:16:02.152+0000) > > Except that it's also normal to have self-control in order to prevent your reaction from going overboard, and rules to keep those reactions in check. If the reasoning behind those rules make sense, sure. Someone spits you in your neck while you walk down the street. Law says you can't strike at someone, riot says two wrongs dont make a right and punishes you for not bending over. I favor a more down to earth approach that allows me to stand upright and smile back at the guy in the mirror. It might not be the SJW way of handling things but it is the way of the world. Anyway, I was annoyed I got banned, I got some rp and bought my fav champs (its a lot easyer since you only need champs for two roles nowadays) ... see you in 8 years ;)
Infernape (EUW)
: >if you flame like why not permamute the account Before the current punishment system was in place players used to get increasing chat restrictions. A lot of players amassed chat restrictions in the thousands, and still found other ways to act toxic in game aside from using the limited chat system. >people uses alot of cash on a game and then they gets permaban i would not keep playing this game after permaban like i would pay again all of the skins etc... That's the point. Buying RP doesn't make you exempt from Riot's punishment system. If someone really valued the money they put into the game, they wouldn't actually do something that would result in their money going to waste. Permanent bans are only used for players that cheat, or those that don't care about their behaviour and didn't reform after three warnings.
> [{quoted}](name=FurorDivinus27,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2016-04-03T17:02:32.553+0000) > That's the point. Buying RP doesn't make you exempt from Riot's punishment system. If someone really valued the money they put into the game, they wouldn't actually do something that would result in their money going to waste. Permanent bans are only used for players that cheat, or those that don't care about their behaviour and didn't reform after three warnings. Or it's out of the players control and they're being punished for a natural/normal physical reaction to stress and being taunted. again, all the while the current system changes nothing to any of this.(apart from punishing people for said reaction)
: > [{quoted}](name=Awsum O 2000,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-04-03T15:21:15.381+0000) > > And I'm wondering why they are trying to reform you in the first place (who are they to 'give up on me?', and seeing how they have no say in whether I come back or not. Why choose such an ineffective method to begin with? They identify someone with undesirable behavior and then tell them 'go back to the startline', resulting in 0 effect on the community. (I've given some suggestions on what would actually help, but as I also pointed out this would also result in them losing income) > What is happening is not that Riot is trying to reform you. You behave in a way that annoys many people that want to play this game and Riot tells you that if you continue to behave this way you will be punished up to a point where you are no longer allowed to use your account. They don't care about you reforming or not they are trying to protect those players whose games get ruined by flamers on a daily basis and who can come up with the most basic self control and don't flame. LoL has a reputation for its extremely toxic community and flamers annoy many people to a point where they might even quit the game and thus it is only logical for Riot to ban these toxic people. If you are unable to come up with the emotional maturity and self control that is required to play a teamgame without continiously insulting your teammates then maybe you should switch to another game where your teammates matter less.
> [{quoted}](name=Fimbulvethr,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2016-04-03T15:43:04.072+0000) > > What is happening is not that Riot is trying to reform you. You behave in a way that annoys many people that want to play this game and Riot tells you that if you continue to behave this way you will be punished up to a point where you are no longer allowed to use your account. They don't care about you reforming or not they are trying to protect those players whose games get ruined by flamers on a daily basis and who can come up with the most basic self control and don't flame. > > LoL has a reputation for its extremely toxic community and flamers annoy many people to a point where they might even quit the game and thus it is only logical for Riot to ban these toxic people. If you are unable to come up with the emotional maturity and self control that is required to play a teamgame without continiously insulting your teammates then maybe you should switch to another game where your teammates matter less. I think you're hyperboling here, I don't start a game thinking 'oh boy lets' flame'. And having never once 'been in a fight' or other altercations irl makes me think I'm not an individual severely lacking self control. My general impression is that people find me social more than anything. Since the 14 day ban I haven't commented on people despite their playstyle&choices. However when someone calls me out Its' beyond me to not respond, responding is usually interpreted as flaming -> you get reported. I'm by no means a saint, but if I could stop the physical reaction when I get trolled/someone tilts and afks' (resulting in the 'flame') I would've by now. An on avg 45 min game of moba or the 0 effects it'll have on my life will not affect this behavior, no matter what they do. In all honesty I doubt anything can, it feels like I can control it as much as I can control my reaction to bumping my head/toe. On another note as others have pointed out the system is entirely text based, and there are many, many other ways to 'be toxic' and to upset people or generally trigger them. Also people that get banned arent removed from the community. Instead they show up with a clean slate at the front door. (with an incentive to hand over some money for riot to not go through tedious ip farming) The only difference being with other new players that they play with is that they have the gameplay experience to dominate new players (something which I am sure scares away more new players than toxicity does.) After all, this is the internet, anonymity makes people rude. All this on top of the fact the game is inherently built around tensing moments (to which people react differently, oftentimes physically) makes me think that the system is as unjust as it is ineffective. Proof for this is as you say, the community itself still being toxic! How long has the tribunal been in effect now? Having been permabanned after how manyish years its been since season 1 (apperantly it takes that long for people like me to be considered toxic enough to be permbanned) has at the very least made clear to me I wont stop playing when banned. See you on the fields.
CarryAll (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Awsum O 2000,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-04-03T13:43:50.361+0000) > -Why is an entertainment company trying to reform players at all to begin with? (The impression I get is; for money) Just wanted to answer the quoted question. Riot is a profit driven company, so you are right they are doing this for money. But, since I actually read your entire post, I think you still miss the point: They are not banning toxic players in order to make them spend money on a new account. They are banning toxic players since these players, in their attitude, cause other players (the offended players) to leave the game - a fact that causes Riot to lose revenue from those leaving players.
> [{quoted}](name=CarryAll,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-04-03T15:13:54.587+0000) > > Just wanted to answer the quoted question. > > Riot is a profit driven company, so you are right they are doing this for money. But, since I actually read your entire post, I think you still miss the point: > They are not banning toxic players in order to make them spend money on a new account. They are banning toxic players since these players, in their attitude, cause other players (the offended players) to leave the game - a fact that causes Riot to lose revenue from those leaving players. I'm simply observing that if they'd want toxic players to stop being toxic they'd give them a chat ban (no talking at all) for an X amount of incremental time. Or have a system that identifies them as toxic and does something else with these players. What's happening now is that the toxic player gets banned (a go back to the start red card) and they get a clean slate, both for punitive measures as for their gameplay measures. YOu might even argue that having a plat player in silver division will cause the opposing team to have a small chance of winning that game (which might result in them being toxic). Is ithat really helping the community? Another thing to note is that people can be toxic in plenty of ways that wont get them banned by the tribunal at all (ping spamming, running around toplane, running after jungler, going to a 3 man lane). If the toxic person doesnt say anything, he wont ever get banned. Which leaves the player thats acting on an emotional state (usually frustration/stressed) and is atleast trying to communicate. A player that might want to change, but cannot. Tribunal is doing at best very little to improve the community (the report system is adding toxicity on its own, hence saying 'reported' is just as infuriating as other negative behavior) but it is undeniably making them money. With the lack of unbiased numbers being shared with the community (either through an API or post) combined with my own experiences makes me think the tribunal not working nearly as well as they make it out to be. To sum up It seems their actions are either troublingly naive or the profit driven company is purposefully making profit by utilising an ineffective system that screws the community.
: gonna answer a few of your questions here... > [{quoted}](name=Awsum O 2000,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-04-03T13:43:50.361+0000) > > -Riot puts you in a high stress situation (esp. in ranked) and then expects you to stay calm. (stress might not be the right word for it, but there definetly is pressure) > -Why are there permabans?what are they supposed to do? > -Why is an entertainment company trying to reform players at all to begin with? (The impression I get is; for money) Yes it is a high stress situation. So why do you put even more stress on your teammates by flaming them? It just does not make sense. If you REALLY want to win, I would expect someone to do whatever it takes - that includes getting some self-control. No one is asking you to be a saint - yell in at your computer screen, punch a hole in the wall, whatever - just. don't. type it in chat. It is really not that hard. Permabans are supposed to let someone know "we have given up on you. Please leave the game and do not come back". And lastly - what is wrong with a company trying to make money? Reformed players = players who stay and do not chase away other customers = more moneys for them and a better gaming experience for us. Would you rather just have a permaban immediately? Or no bans whatsoever?
> Yes it is a high stress situation. So why do you put even more stress on your teammates by flaming them? It just does not make sense. If you REALLY want to win, I would expect someone to do whatever it takes - that includes getting some self-control. To me it isn't a rational choice but an emotional one. I get frustrated that I percieve teammates not trying to win (In my last game quite literally because they stated 'I'm tilted, I don't care'. I lost my cool that time because he simply stood next to the fountain doing nothing. I'd also like to add here that the term 'flaming' has such a broad and vague definition that asking someone to go for armor because they have a full ad team is seen as flaming. (you are after all 'critiqueing' their playstyle/build) > No one is asking you to be a saint - yell in at your computer screen, punch a hole in the wall, whatever - just. don't. type it in chat. It is really not that hard. I'm glad it isnt for you, I don't feel the need to physically break things (is that really a solution to anything?). My intentions are pure when I suggest someone to change something (that is, to win the game). Sometimes it derails because people go completely bananas. (or in my last game, they go bananas completely outside of me and then I get annoyed that Ill lose my third promo series because of similiar behavior). > Permabans are supposed to let someone know "we have given up on you. Please leave the game and do not come back". And I'm wondering why they are trying to reform you in the first place (who are they to 'give up on me?', and seeing how they have no say in whether I come back or not. Why choose such an ineffective method to begin with? They identify someone with undesirable behavior and then tell them 'go back to the startline', resulting in 0 effect on the community. (I've given some suggestions on what would actually help, but as I also pointed out this would also result in them losing income) > And lastly - what is wrong with a company trying to make money? Reformed players = players who stay and do not chase away other customers = more moneys for them and a better gaming experience for us. Would you rather just have a permaban immediately? Or no bans whatsoever? I don't think Reformed players = players who stay isnt a logical deduction. Nor is Reformed players = do not chase away other customers. Nor is the conclusion Riot makes more money from people that stay.(in fact I'm argueing they make more money from forcing people to start over, something which is bad for the community but good for their financials). I agree however that reformed players would result in a better gameplay experience. I wonder though, what actually is a reformed player? Id argue its rather naive to think you can change someones innate reaction to stress (which I think is an emotional, not a rational choice) over a 40 minute game of lol? Especially without any form of lasting repercussions or longevity of the negative conditioning effect. As for alternatives (or what I'd suggest they'd do); I've given some in my original post. Thanks for taking the time to respond.
deathgod5 (EUW)
: You.... actually have a point and kinda changed my view on the tribunal. I am collecting some information about the report system and how it works and I wondered if I could cite this board (no intending to steal intelligent info if you dont want to). Also out of curiosity, if you flame (sometimes), do you think that a long term full chat restriction(like a few months not being allowed to type in chat) would be a better solution(because players lose the ability to flame but don't feel like making ). > Or forego the charade alltogether and implement a text reckognition system that censors incitefull/toxic speech. Where this isnt a bad idea, i think it isnt done because the chat would look like this after a while player:A player:s player:s player:h player:o player:l player:e in games where systems like this are implemented it just leads to spam so I wouldnt advise it.
> [{quoted}](name=deathgod5,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=gnE6uqtR,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-04-03T14:58:18.076+0000) > > You.... actually have a point and kinda changed my view on the tribunal. > I am collecting some information about the report system and how it works and I wondered if I could cite this board (no intending to steal intelligent info if you dont want to). > Also out of curiosity, if you flame (sometimes), do you think that a long term full chat restriction(like a few months not being allowed to type in chat) would be a better solution(because players lose the ability to flame but don't feel like making ). > > Where this isnt a bad idea, i think it isnt done because the chat would look like this after a while > > > player:A > player:s > player:s > player:h > player:o > player:l > player:e > > > > in games where systems like this are implemented it just leads to spam so I wouldnt advise it. That would be a matter of improving the censor system (or having a minimum length of sentences) Thanks for being open minded. Feel free to cite whatever you'd like (I think the intelectual propperty belongs to riot either way, and I'm pretty sure they're fine with it ;) )
Rioter Comments
: You are ineligible to earn loot due to previous behavioral restrictions.
How this system feels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8WSysB5vKM
alasarcher (EUNE)
: Its not an error. Hextech is reward for non toxic players. Its reward for players without recent punishments.
except if you pay money ofcourse, then riot couldnt care less how toxic you are. So much for the moral highground
Dawkyy (EUW)
: Being ineligible to earn loot. (Hextech Crafting)
Play more games than average jack? Get rekt more cuz Riot loves screwing you over while fapping their political correctness boner.
solutanek (EUNE)
: You are ineligible to earn loot due to previous behavioral restrictions.
Riot forcing good manners and christian ethics down your throat since ever.
: League Is The MOST Rage Inducing Game Ever.
This cannot be, you can't rage in lol bcause theres a tribunal. Where treehugging lefties that think that the world is made of cottonball my little ponies holding hands will punish you with the wrath of khan when you tell the non-communicating dude in midlane to stop pushing into enemy tower because enemy yi is 8/0
MynadarxCZ (EUNE)
: Where is Hextech crafting (EU)?
YOU ARE INELIGIBLE TO EARN LOOT DUE TO PREVIOUS BEHAVIORAL RESTRICTIONS. Best idea evurr.
Serika Zero (EUNE)
: there goes the "only the last person that reported the player get the notification" which was spearing around these boards like wild fire when the system came out for 1-2 months hopefully you will all realize by now that said system ain't working
this, tribunal idea is a utopia thoought up by dreamers with a critical lack of realism.
: crap, they found out! quick, initiate the riot hq self destruction mechanism and bail!
_HQ-D protocol engaged, releasing poros -: preparing for end times_
Arashì (EUW)
: The community truly has reached a sad low-point when we feel we need "tips" to point out what is disrespectful and negative. Can't we all just act like decent people. /sigh
IcyzoR (EUNE)
: You are ineligible to earn loot due to previous behavioral restrictions.
This type of pandering is basically why the entirity of europe is about to sway to the right. And if countries like germany go right, they go FAAAAR right.. thx rito! Slightly more srsly: this is utter bullcrap.
Holyna (EUW)
: Arcade comic
oh dayum thats cutesy.. I think I died a little on the inside after seeing that sona cwy 0.0 ... you're very talented pulling at my heartstrings like this, very well done
Desocrate (EUW)
: Player Harrassing after game via Friend Chat
Im sorry but thats just hillarious

Awsum O 2000

Level 30 (EUW)
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