: > [{quoted}](name=CandyApple,realm=EUW,application-id=ln3nNJrX,discussion-id=dpY63KFu,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-14T17:42:54.445+0000) > > By going AFK you will lose an exponential amount of LP so technically it would become "not worth". The KDA still does not pull the biggest weight in this system and remember it is a KDA ratio not a KD ratio. ah ok, exponential you say. ok, but that would punish ppl who get DC'd and dont go AFK intetnionally to harsh. KDA still does not the biggest wheight. so what does? and how? And btw, KDA behaves even worse in what i descriebed than KD ratio. if you had much much much free time you could just define yourself a function, crawl the LOL sites for lets say 10k game stats, apply your algorithm and see where it ends up rating the palyers. then see how many games they already played in their current league. post your results, including stuff like a diagram that shows i.e. that your algorithm converges against the MMR system for players that played a huge amount of games in their current league +-1 division. Ofc that is stuff Riot should do, except: i dont think they do.
One day I think I will try write an algorithm, however for the meantime the best I can do is just draw up a model. The KDA won't pull the biggest weight what will is the team play aspects as in objectives taken and things within that regard.
Enjutsu (EUNE)
: What you're suggesting is a rather complicated problem to solve in a team based game. Im only guessing that riot is going for it because of the way things are going. The score system is probably just an early step towards personal performance measurment, but i think it has a problem figuring out exactly what kind of role a player is taking, which is where role based teambuilder could help with. Still it's only a guess and even so it's only the very begining.
I know but I believe that if it is worked out properly then it will be possible. Well yes I could see Riot is working towards that and I hope it becomes more integrated into the current system.
Ludovico (EUW)
: Just want to add a small thing: Yea it would be cool if the system distances itself from KDA, Win/Loss-reatio, etc. But did you see the new HUD btw? KDA everywhere.
The new HUD looks really awesome in my opinion.
Jamîn (EUW)
: Since moving down into bronze, I have been playing games that are easily winnable, but I lose because of the other team members. I dont want this to sound rude towards them and blaming them, but practically every ranked game in Bronze, I have won lane and have no problem killing my lane opponent, until it reaches into late game where I am then faced against fed lanes from the other people. This is always annoying and a large quantity of my games I go positive but still lose, such as 14/6/13 as {{champion:15}} and then losing the game because the other lanes fed. This is why I think that the Individual performance should be included into the ranked system. As well as this, people cannot just be carried by someone else when that person does not have much skill. If they feed lane every game, but everyone else wins and the team wins, then they will go up, even if they have individually done really badly
That just emphasized my point. Thank you for the comment.
: For me the only problem with the current system are promotion series. They are utterly useless and only disturbing. They were meant as a goal to work up to, but they have become the few games that people are afraid of to play. The games in which the most tension arises, and the games that mostly screw over unlucky players.
Which is why I feel it shouldn't be the deciding factor, before such games generally you will become very tense which is like "Losing the game before it starts" in a way. League should be fun and it should be fun to rank and climb the ranks, not a mission with "blood, sweat and tears" (a bit of an exaggeration but point being made)
: > [{quoted}](name=CandyApple,realm=EUW,application-id=ln3nNJrX,discussion-id=dpY63KFu,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2015-07-14T10:34:47.056+0000) > > I am quite sure Riot has the resources and capabilities to cater for this incredibly integrated system. Well i wouldn't be so sure on that. I think its rather unlikely they do, judging from their previous implementations. But, anyhow, to the topic: I listed quite some things that could potentially taken into account. They would need to make sure that none of those could be abused. Taking your example, if AFK triggers the loss prevented, it is likely players go AFK if they are losing to prevent the loss. Even if he would get punished, still statisticly worth. So that would very likely raise the amount of AFK time per game. You see, its not that easy, just sayn: take this and consider that. Extreme cases: Take the KDA as an example. If you have next to no deaths, it will go throgh the roof. If you die extremly often, it wont make much of a difference. (i.e. 20 or 25 deaths). So if you rate by KDA 1:1 you will get nowhere near to where you want to be with your system. Basicly, you need a function from a set of parameters (probably with dependencies between each other) to a single value that performs well in representing the skill level of a player shown in a specific game. And that is not the easiest thing to come up with.
By going AFK you will lose an exponential amount of LP so technically it would become "not worth". The KDA still does not pull the biggest weight in this system and remember it is a KDA ratio not a KD ratio.
: but mobas are a team game.. regardless if you are on a team on skype/ts or just randomly matched with each other. its each and every member's responsibility to try to keep a healthy and pleasant team environment. And as everyone says, yes, trolls and afk exist. But trolls and afk also exist for the enemy team. If you are good enough and play enough games, you will climb. If you are not, you will stay. Your friends can try this: http://freelo.gg/ Put both of their names and see which one of them does better. Its a program that calculates how good you are based on your ranked games. Its objective and should easily tell you if your s5 friend "deserves" to be g5. My guess is that he doesn't. Especially since 1000 games in s5 is A LOT
Yes but who adheres to that responsibility for the majority of the time. Yes the trolls and AFKs also exist for the enemy team and then it is unfair for them.
Smirri (EUW)
: ye i totally get whats your plan. and i dont even think its bad. especially the afk thing is something fucking me up aswell. and i really like the way of rating players like that page does. and id love to see that being implemented into league. The only thing scaring me off is, that a few, or a bit more, would get even more selfish. but well^^ id get higher in my league if the ranked system would be like that atm :D
Well look the system will be as fair as possible and I could draw up a model, but that would take some time.
Enjutsu (EUNE)
: Im guessing riot is already working towards that, but it's a very long term project. Btw about your friend examples, the current system doesnt prevent people from climbing, it just takes time to get where you should be.
I do not know what Riot is currently doing and yes I know that, but some people don't have the time to play 10k games to get to where they should be, which is the problem I am trying to also solve.
: Hmm, I see. Sounds solid when you put it that way. Do you have more specifics about the model? I am not in the subject, but I can relate to the immense difficulty for the "individual performance" aseessment. What are the driving factors of the model? How, to what extend, and under what conditions are they interrelated, interdependent, unrelated and independent? Can an automated system track all the facets of the game correctly so that its fairness can be guaranteed in 99% of cases? I can totaly relate to your point that it feels unfair. So mnay people complain about this because it is unfair. They feel unfairly treated by the system. This single fact calls for improvements. Nevertheless, we "the players" should also change our attitude a little bit at least (for our own sake). I am going to lean on your previously mentioned point. I am a Gold player (Cruizing from G1 to G4 up and down) and I am able to play Plat 5 to 4 on a good level as I have done so successfully a couple of times from my roommates account. I beleive to have decent mechanics and a good game understanding, therefore I feel that I am suitable for platin, yet, some deficiency of mine hinders me to climb that ladder into actual platin. I think unless your skill is not high enough to carry hard in terms of mechanics and game understanding, you pretty much belong into your divison, give or take +2-3 divisions, and may slowly and painfully pave your road to the next league (in my case platin).
The model would be incredibly integrated. I would be able to write something up, but it could take quite a while. The main concepts and ideas I have shown, if you would like me to I will draw up a system. I feel we should just change the system a bit, because we have been on the same ranking system for about 3 years now, it seems a bit outdated considering the resources Riot has gained in these few years.
Setryy (EUW)
: Individual performance has already a direct impact on winning/losing the game, afk flaws are stadistically solved after playing some games. If your performance isnt making any impact on the game you are in the elo you deserve.
I don't think statistically 8 games in a row of 4v5 and one of 2v5 is going to be solved any time soon. Which is one of the reasons for starting this discussion.
: I totally agree with CandyApple. If his/her suggestion actually gets involved in the game this will stimulate players to perform as good as they can,because they will be the ones responsible for the gain/loss of LP.This way noone will have a reason to complain about his last game, how good he has performed but how noobish his team was and how he lost 25 LP because top was 0-13-0 with 36 farm in the 18th minute.But i don't agree with gaining LP when you lose a game.Maybe just a reduction in the LP you lose or something like that.I mean you lost, you are not supposed to win anything. That's my opinion on this topic.
Thank you for the comment. The only reason I felt the need for the LP gain if you lose is only provided you played for the team the same way it would be possible to lose LP for a win. Like as I have said people can be carried if they are lucky but they might not necessarily "deserve" to be in the tier or division they are in. That was just my thought on the matter.
: rofl, you still can't see the problem right here your s5 friend played over 1000 games. And he is stuck in silver. That means he belongs THERE and not higher. Your s1 friend can go higher or fall. But it looks like he can go higher. Look, its nothing wrong with being unable to get higher and only being b1 or b5 or s5 or g5. That's your limit. But after 1000 games, its not the system's fault, its simply your current tier. And for some reason, even when I was merely gold I could easy win a lot in silver and bronze without a problem. I can probably climb out of b5 in 200 games or less, all the way to g5-g3. As you said, its a strategy game. And that means....................... that............................................. there's a strategy that works even when your team doesnt listen to you, especially in lower tiers. Edit: if you want, have both of your friends record 3 games. Then we can count the mistakes made by them. And lets be fair rankings = someone is better than you. If the enemy got feed, if the enemy played better as a team, if they used a better strategy. Why should they lose? Its only normal and fair that they win. There is a reason why lcs players make it to diamond-master on each of their accounts... they are better than other players
The point I am trying to make is that you are responsible for you and shouldn't need to gamble on your own team. In team ranked I will agree 100% its purely whether you win or lose but you chose your team. In solo/duo you didn't.
: Individual performance? I know it sucks when you're team are unrealistically bad and you're the only person doing well and then proceed to still lose but it is a team game. You can't run away from the fact that just because you win lane doesn't mean you deserve to climb the ranks, you need to play as a team and believe it or not with the right champion/positioning/role you can carry a game of your own.
I know but this doesn't only take into account whether you won the lane or not, it is still a team game and I know that, but you don't choose your team. You make calls, but they are still only human and they decide not to listen. You know they going to get caught, you signal them to get back, they continue pushing and die as expected, to which you therefore lose the game. There was no team play in that and it wasn't your fault that you lost but then you lose LP, that hardly seems fair.
pablowa (EUW)
: Also... LP inflation. For the system to work you need to Keep the balance of each game close to even. So, if the winning theam won around 100 LP overall, the loosing team should loose around the same amount. If you dont have that overtime everyone is gonna rise and Silver becomes the new bronze etc. So with your system if the loosing team does good it has to punish the winner.
Yes I understand which is why I said to have a system where each game you start at 0 LP and gaining objectives or losing them will result in either a LP increase or decrease but all this happens during the game. You will have a "real time gain and loss of LP" even if you win you will not necessarily gain LP like if you sat in spawn twiddling your thumbs for 45 minutes and your team managed to carry and win you will lose LP.
pablowa (EUW)
: The Thing is, if you watch this game overall, the question is how do you rank personal performance? You will not have a Riot employe watchig every ranked and Giving a score. So that means that a lot of stuff you do in game will not be recorded in any way. **Example:** The game does not notice a difference in: A: Standing Afk in Base for 3 mins B: Roaming mid, blocking an escape path and therefore securing a kill for our mid, even without getting an assist. The game sees: 0 CS and no assists in those 2 mins. And would give both players the same score (probably a bad one), even though, Case B helped the mid snowball and maybe let mid carry the game. Stuff like this are in everygame. Placing a pink in our base isn't nearly as valuable as placing it in the enemy jungle and defend it there. For the game there is no difference. Getting 3 kills may be worth a lot, but maybe would be better to not chase and get a INhib instead, how is the game supposed to value that? Trading a Baron agaiinst 5th drag? Noone can say what's better, depends on what you do with it. How are you gonna program value? And secondly, if you do so: Now players who wanna improve have one single way: Do everything to win the game. Teammate is flaming? Better mute him and ignore. People Ksed your kill? DOesn't matter Gold for the team will win the game. etc. As soon as you put in personal stuff in a teamgame people will rage at kses and go for their own score and not for the team win. Lastly: Programmed performance Score is** ALWAYS** exploitable. The system can only compare numbers. so for example if you want a hogh mastery on champs, i suggest your upgrade your trinket and use it quite often ;) Does that make you an actual better player? If you use it in your base everytime it is of cooldwons, just to get a higher amstery.. probably not, maybe even worse. The system rewards Team wins, as this game is about winning as a Team. Nothing wrong with that.
Your character has a x and y co-ordinate on the map every moment of the game. The system will be incredibly integrated but consider the fact that you will be able to move at a position causing the other person to move accordingly which is a pattern which could be recognized by a computer. Placing wards in "viable" positions will be accounted. The KDA isn't the biggest factor you will gain or lose LP based on the actions done in game like for example you will receive more LP for an inhibitor than chasing 3 kills. For your second point a kill will be as worth as an assist. It is a KDA ratio not a KD ratio. For your last point if you place wards in "viable" places. Or remove wards. If you spam wards in base it isn't going to help you or anyone else. Yes I understand it is winning as a team, but when you play games basically with 2v5 it isn't that hard to win against a 2 people. So yes it is a team game, but then where was the team?
: being able to win a game is a skill that you acquire while playing and is what right now is required to move forward. there's been a bunch of times when I lost to silver players, they outplayed me, but I still won the game since... I had a better idea on how to win the game and executed on it In the end, that's what ranking is all about. How good are you at winning the game? If you are bad at it, you will be lower in standings. This is valid for your gold 5 friend and your silver 1 friend. He doesn't get carried in every single game. But he has an idea about what to do in order to improve his chances to win. He also doesn't make big enough mistakes which allows others to carry. Unlike your silver 5 friend that might think he is really good and really tries to carry all games, just to fail. Not all of us have carry potential. Some of us must play as a team in order to win. And this game starts being more about the team than individual performance or mechanics. Trusting your team, and trying your best to support them is how I got so far. Playing "solo" only got me to g3. And that was back in season 4, when snowballing and hyper carrying was easy. Now it was made more difficult, taking turrets down takes longer, tier 2 give shield, etc.
My Silver 1 friend has about 200 wins on record and has played for less than a year. He should honestly not be in Silver 1. Whereas my other friend who is Silver 5 has about 1000 wins on record and played for about 3 years. Has a better understanding of positioning and how to win the game, but as I have said cannot manage to get a win streak going purely because of the tier/ division he is in. League is a strategic game and in a way I find that it is more based on chance whether you get a team who will listen to your calls, else you will get a team who refuses to play as a team. This system I feel will encourage strategic. It will make you independent and allow you to get to a deserving rank a lot faster. Due to the fact that not everyone has the time to play 10k games to get to the rank they were meant to be in, in the first place.
: I don't think it quite works. Especially for someone like me who plays utility champions rather than carries. For example, my last game I was J4 jungle. We were slightly behind on kills and gold in the late game (70 second death times). I got an E-Q-R combo and trapped their whole team, so my team killed their whole team and only I died. My team then pushed down 4 towers, an inhib and the nexus to win. So my team mates get 4 towers, an inhib and 5 kills while I get just 5 assists and a death, yet they arguably won from my set up, how would the system recognise a play like that? Because I tend to main engage champions who sacrifice themselves for the team to win.
Since you "died for the team" essentially then if you win a team fight which therefore results in the pushing of multiple towers and in some cases the nexus you will be rewarded for those objectives as well. Provided you contributed enough to the team fight such as J4 E-Q-R the entire enemy team would be sufficient. It could be recorded by the system, the positioning of the people, the keys used etc. It would take a lot of effort and coding from Riots side but they honestly they have the resources.
: I think its a great idea and would make the system way more accurate. to be a little bit more specific: the system will place you perfectly fine if you play, say, 10k games, since all the teammate related stuff will get nullified over a large number of games. but: you dont want to play 10k games until you are placed in the rank you should be. The problem with your solution is that there are a million ways to do it. 1. there are many stats that can be taken into consideration: -Stats, GPM, Dmg to Champs, Dmg overall, Dmg taken, total Gold, Wards placed, wards cleared, kill participation, everything compared to your lane opponent/rank-avg and so on. A. Lot. of stuff. 2. How much do these things value exactly? how do you handle exceptions/extreme cases? how do you handle afk time exactly? all that would get pretty complicated pretty fast. That said, if the individual performance rating could at least not be abused and reflect the skill level better than a lost/won game (which shouldn't be so hard to accomplish) it would be an improvement to the current system.
I am quite sure Riot has the resources and capabilities to cater for this incredibly integrated system. I just came up with the concept lets say. There are A. Lot. Of. Stuff. and there are so many things that are not used that should be used. Like I said Riot has the resources. What type of extreme cases do you mean? In terms of AFK I would say that the loss should be prevented. I am not sure if I have answered your question.
raps1355 (EUW)
: Didnt read it was too long but saw the poll the to get the point. As cool as it would be to have individual performance taken into account it wont work without extensive revisions every 2 secs. You would have people figuring out the parameters and solely focusing those things doing unorthodox means of play to ensure maximum rating. Could you imagine "Im not coming to that teamfight i need to cap <insert parameter A first> or "dont finish i still need to cap parameter E for max points" It would simply change the game from winning to working toward the highest gains. Dont get me wrong i love the idea of you getting less points for being on the winning team if you played badly (got carried) and gaining more on the losing team if you was effectively Jesus in that game.
I understand your point but the fact of the matter is that if you manage to win you will gain "optimum" deserved LP. Regardless of the cap parameter E as you say. Another point is that this is still a team game and participation in team fights will result in a better gain of LP that being a solo act. This system just encourages the strategic aspect of the game rather than making it a game of chance. I don't know if I have answered your question let me know if I have not.
: Very good points raised, however I beleive that an individual performance assessment is not viable nor desirable for a team game. Your individual performance always depends on the performance of your teammates, especially for protect-the-carry comps or other comps where some key players need to be peeled for example. I feel that this way of assesment might drive players to play more mobile champs with escape mechanics all the time in order to lower the reliance on teammates and lower deaths. The system as it is is OK, imo. However, it needs waaaay more improvement. For me it is a mere stupidity if games start 4v5. There must be options to cancel such game, even if a guy dcs the first 2-3 mins and doesnt come back. It happens way too much and destroys game experience. Please dont argue that this problem evens out on many games, since the argument is flawed and only of weak reasoning. There shouldn't be an element of chance in a strategic game; certainly not when the issue is avoidable or at least if the chances of such harm is reducable by a good extend.
KDA isn't the most desirable nor the main point looked at so even if you have a score of 0/9/50 for example you will still gain LP as you contributed to the team. People are already breaking the system by having friends boost accounts etc. This system will also have flaws, but I just feel it would end up being for the better. You will get assessed on an individual level so that you can get matched "better" with people. As well as, as the idea of how is anyone going to learn if they don't progress at all. In my opinion this would be the improvement I would still say you gain or lose LP depending on which nexus fell, but that should not be the only factor. And I agree 100% with that point this is a strategic game that has been corrupted into a game of chance for many.
: I agree entirely, I do believe that individual performance should AT LEAST be taken into account, if not actually form the entire basis for your gains/losses in lp. BUT, if there was a viable way of making a fair way of doing this, then riot would have done it. There are so many possibilities for the system being unfair either positively or negatively, that if such a system were put into place, riot would be constantly spammed with complaints about they lost an "unfair" amount of LP based on performance. Just a few problems I can think of: 1)KDA/New score ranking (S/A/B etc.) system isn't necessarily an indicator of performance....like at all...just because you have a poor KDA (which usually means a poor ranking) doesn't mean you didn't play the best in the entire game. e.g. CC junglers/supports locking down carries, but dying as a result, but resulting in overall wins in fights 2) People would start playing for KDA instead of result, IE say your team is losing, not badly but by enough for you to think "unless we pull it back somehow or they throw its over", people will just give up, especially those who are fed and can make the most impact, like "if i'm 7-1-2 but my team is losing 10-29 I'm going to play super safe and never fight because I want to lose less LP". People already do this for stats, you can't give them more reason for LP. 3)This isn't so much a problem but in terms of AFK's affecting games, personally (and I realise this is just as problematic as any solution) I think it would be better if a player is logged to be disconnected for a certain amount of game time the losing team should get loss prevented (except that player who should lose lp, maybe even more LP tbh to punish afk'ers) 4) In your system as with my afk idea above, you would be faced with the problem of people on average gaining more LP then they would lose, because TONNES of peoples games get affected by afk'ers for a start, so that would be loads less lp being lost from that. And then theres all the people who get decent ratings (sayB-/ c+ and above?) but lose, having LP reduction, or even GAINING LP. You could counter that by decreasing average gains, but that would mean advancing would take longer for people way below there actually level and generally longer for everyone probably, OR you punish low scoring players way more in LP losses (and even maybe have to give LP losses to WINNING PLAYERS who performed badly) BUT, as I said before the scoring system/KDA aren't indicative of a players performance. There isn't really a way of fairly doing it based on performance unfortunately, without unbiased peer-reviewed scoring teams, personally viewing and scoring every player in every game, the current system is about as fair as its going to get. While it might take a while, theoretically you should be able to get to your "deserved" elo because statistically (and you may have to play several thousand ranked games) you will win on average more games if YOU ARE NOT THE PROBLEM, sucks if you don't have time for all that ranked but, as much as I hate to say it the "no elo hell" argument is valid IF and only if, you put in enough games....like hundreds if not thousands.
The system changed once in 5 years so I'm sure that a new system could be implemented and considering that I am not sure that Riot have tried something. I might be wrong. 1) For the K/D/A and they are still participating in team fights such as locking down ADC etc. you will get an assist therefore a good K/D/A. I was just referring to the S,A,B,etc. system as an example and I know that it doesn't exactly work. 2) K/D/A as I have said isn't the most important factor there are countless statistics that League of Legends gives you after the game, but fail to utilize. I responded to another person saying that let us say you start the game with 0 LP then if you do something well like take a tower you gain 1 LP. If you make mistakes then you lose 2 LP if you take the nexus you gain 5 LP then you will sit on a net of 4 LP for the game. If I am not clear enough just let me know. 3) I agree entirely and almost a "better" punishment would be for that player to lose LP not the entire team which is a big reason for me starting this discussion. I think that the loss prevented would be a crucial addition as well. 4) The current system would still be in place like for example: at the moment if you deserve to be in Gold and you are placed in Bronze for some reason, you will gain more LP than a person who is in Bronze and deserves to be there. This would be based on your average game play capabilities. Now the same would apply here. If you deserve to be in Gold and you are placed in Bronze then for achieving objectives you will gain more LP than a person who is in Bronze and deserves to be there. I'm not sure if my point is portrayed correctly so let me know if I understood the question correctly. You have a point and I agree but it is a flaw as, lets say you are in Bronze and deserve to be in Gold, why spend thousands of hours just to get to the rank that you deserved to be in, in the first place. We shouldn't spend a thousand plus games trying to achieve a rank that is reflective of our current skill level we should play 10 games to get a rank of our current skill level and then spend those thousand plus games improving on that.
: Well put. Like I said in my previous response to you I cannot perfect the system myself and there are countless variables that can be put into play here. Which is why I suggest that why not use the countless variables to assist in rewarding people with the capability to be in a tier or division which they deserve to be in. Rather than leaving them out to dry. If the people who have the capability are not in a higher tier or division how will they be able to learn more. I myself want to learn more, but am stuck in the same routine.
Also with a split pushing Sivir her damage dealt and damage dealt to towers would be relatively high as far as I would understand.
Smirri (EUW)
: In my opinion, ye you are wrong. What about the splitpush thing, ye mostly its not the adc, but its about 2 or 3 days ago, we lost to a splitpushing sivir. You cant say, deal that amount of dmg to get that amount of lp. Or, the difference, deal quite no dmg, but still you did good. You cant get every point happened in that match, like midlane fed like hell, opponent midlane roamed for botlane, all you could do was farming. Maybe you are Tristana with Soraka Support, all you do early game is farming. While your opponent is with Blitz and Vayne. (just an example). So Blitz and vayne are trying to win the lane, while tris is just trying to stall till mid/late game. Youve got so many possibilties how the game could go that you cant simply set an amount of numbers of damage which you need to deal to get a specific amount of lp. In my opinion the rankedsystem isnt good, as it actually is, but i dont think you should improve it by rating each player on its own. League players are selfish already, and as i said, i guess they will be even more selfish if you rate them like that.
Well put. Like I said in my previous response to you I cannot perfect the system myself and there are countless variables that can be put into play here. Which is why I suggest that why not use the countless variables to assist in rewarding people with the capability to be in a tier or division which they deserve to be in. Rather than leaving them out to dry. If the people who have the capability are not in a higher tier or division how will they be able to learn more. I myself want to learn more, but am stuck in the same routine.
Smirri (EUW)
: Ehm ye i dont get you wrong at all :) I know what you want to get changed, but it wont be that easy. For example take this, im not gonna post the name of that page since im not sure if im allowed to. But this homepage is rating Players in different things happened in that specific match. As you can see, i had a Support on my side which made me crazy, but anyway. He didnt do that bad, like this table says he did. So he would loose about 50 LP since he got rated Bronze, while i would loose about 20 since i got rated Gold. (thats a Plat3~ match btw) All i want to say, it would be pretty much unfair to let him drop that hard.
I understand it won't be an easy task but I think that it is very do-able one. Remember I don't want to remove the tiers and divisions. So if you are in Platinum and you get a "Bronze" rating for a game you won't necessarily drop into bronze immediately and with the system I want to use you would gain and lose LP a lot slower like you might receive like 5 LP for a match or something or lose like 5 instead of 20 or 40 etc. It would also work different for different roles. The system I would prefer is still just a concept and I myself cannot perfect it. That being said, I answered another persons question about some particular cases and how abnormal scores and statistics should be dealt with whether they were good or bad.
Smirri (EUW)
: i mean, these parts about afking, sure. it can change the gameresult, and i agree that the lp u gain or loose should be higher or less, depending on the result. But gaining points for being selfish and playing for stats isnt what u want, but it would basically be what u get.
Again tell me if I am wrong, but if the stats you get are good in the role you chose. So for example a ADC, the damage dealt to champions and the damage dealt should have a relatively high number and the damage taken should be a relatively low number etc. would be a good indication of how well you play the role of ADC. There are a whole bunch of other factors for sure like your positioning and how you handle team fights etc. but if you do no damage then your role of ADC hasn't been fulfilled. KDA shouldn't be the factor that decides the LP as people can be selfish in terms of KDA.
: How would that happen? If you rate players individually then you will be able to play against and with people your actual skill level which would lead to a better learning and better team play experience.
What I just said might be interpreted wrong. I just want to know what you mean. Tell me if I am wrong but what separates a Platinum player from a Gold player isn't the KDA but the capability to act as a team. So you could implement a different system to areas where LP decay exists such as Platinum.
: AFK Counter
I think this is a great idea. I would rather want to play with a 5th member. Giving a bonus IP reward would be a nice thing to get if you help a team out, I think.
Smirri (EUW)
: I think, if you would rate the players individually, you would totally loose the sense of the game.
How would that happen? If you rate players individually then you will be able to play against and with people your actual skill level which would lead to a better learning and better team play experience.
Bertonny (EUW)
: "I will leave it with saying. Why do you have to suffer and be punished if other people cannot be bothered?" I agree with this. The unfairness of my last ranked games has reached a very high level when I do alright but my team mates think they are supermen and engage 1 vs 4 or 5... They do not listen to advices and after you get kill because of other's mistake who do not listen even if we are polite. I was in bronze the first season I did because I began ranked too early (2year ago, even by winning 5 or 6 game on 10 if it is not more...). Now I have improved my game play but IT DOES NOT MATTER. Even if I do a good game, my team mates do not. My actual league does not represent my actual level. I really think that I am blocked in bronze because of others and I do not have the level to win 80% or 90% of my games only by myself. This does not mean that my level is bronze but I am... I will stop playing this game if it does not change. May be Elo should be reset after a season or I do not know but it needs to change. There is nearly no pleasure anymore to play this game.
I agree with you entirely there. I feel that the entire ranking is outdated and is in need of a drastic update.
Roundar (EUW)
: I have some questions according to this: What if you end up in a very unlucky 0/17/8 rate? What if you farm for 20 min and enemy/you surrender? 0/0/0, 1/0/0 or an inactive kda If you get 27/1/10 and that only death is the cause of defeat? If you get abnormal score? 54/8/17
What if you end up in a very unlucky 0/17/8 rate? I would say that the "0/17/8" would be considered an anomaly as we all have bad games. The other thing however is if you continuously get 0/17/8 however and you contributed no vision, damage dealt, damage taken or utility then your LP would decrease as you would not contribute to the team even if you win as you would not contribute to the team in any way. You would just be piggybacking off of other peoples wins. What if you farm for 20 min and enemy/you surrender? 0/0/0, 1/0/0 or an inactive kda If you farm for 20 mins and your/ enemy team surrenders then it would take the LP in relative relations. In other words it would be relative to the rest of your teams performance. If you sit and farm and do nothing else the entire game you will lose LP whereas if you are a "team player" then you will gain LP. It would also take into account the amount of pushing you did. Such as taking towers etc. If your entire team are 0/0/0 and you pushed the other team so hard that they surrender then you will gain LP as in relative relations to your team you did well. If you get 27/1/10 and that only death is the cause of defeat? KDA isn't the most important aspect of the game. If you did all the damage in the game throughout. and you assisted in many aspects of the game such as vision control, towers and dragons etc. then you will not lose LP you should gain LP. This is a tough situation to break down and say what should happen. I would say that you still gain LP as it was lets say, "Your only mistake of the game". You wont recieve as much LP for the game but you won't lose it either. I would suggest. At the start of the game you start with 0 LP and then if you do something good like continuously placing wards you will gain like 2 LP if you make continuous mistakes you will lose 2 LP. If you get abnormal score? 54/8/17 Abnormal scores will be considered as anomalies for doing exceptional you can gain an extra 1 or 2 LP. If you continuously get abnormal scores like 54/8/17 then you will get scaling LP. The same with abnormal bad scores like 0/20/15 or something then you will lose like 1 or 2 LP if you continuously get those scores then you will lose scaling LP. League of Legends gives us all these end game statistics and are continuously telling us every minute detail of the game but somehow fail to utilise all that information to distinguish good players from the rest. Those good players should be rewarded therefore. Just ask if I am not specific enough for the questions or if you have a dispute of any kind.
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