: Is the support item change a nerf or a buff? - Analysis -
So you buy an item to 450 gold price. You upgrade it for free to a gold efficiency of roughly 1650 gold. Meaning you get 1200 gold for free plus the 1500 gold to upgrade for a total of 2700gold gained at 20 minutes. I don't know about you but my gold generating item didn't give me 2700 gold at minute 20 on a good day. It seems counterintuitive, but in overall games you should have more gold to spend on other than your main support item...
EutDesu (EUW)
: I really like that we are able to buy other items sooner, so i still want to say that the idea behind the new support items are really good. Please don't change that back Riot. Having said that, then the biggest problem i have right now with the support items, is the god damn debuff. About 80% less gold from minion kills. I would understand if the debuff was there if you were close to an ally, that could take the farm, but that's not the case. If you are the only one left that can defend a tower, then too bad, you will get shit gold from last hitting the minions. That's just bad design. Riot even have the design in the targons already.. If you are close to an enemy minion when you last hit it your ally will get shared gold, why havn't they thought about that with the debuff??? I hope the new support items stay, but that they will be buffed in some way or form, i don't mind it being a small nerf tbf, but this debuff, and the gold income is just straight up frustrating!.
Because of toplane and how ranged vs melee matchups might get abused by spellthiefs. "Bad design" clearly you didn't see the spell thief+klepto meta
Funny because the Pyke mid in the first game was actually the reason that they weren't behind most of that game...
Uraraka (EUNE)
: Not prioritizing {{champion:498}} or {{champion:145}} is bad imo.{{sticker:zombie-nunu-bummed}}
Yeah, but they played like an NA team this final...
Feathermane (EUNE)
: When you throw your first two games with bad picks, you probably don't even feel like trying in game 3. If they were serious about winning, they should have started game 1 with a serious comp, and not handicap themselves. How come KR and CH teams never come out with any 'original' and '4fun' comps? Always the most meta OP champs you can get and a straightforward strat every game and that's it. Your chances grow a lot when you don't start every best of 5 a game or two down.
Because Rumble and Nautilus mid is the most played champions in this tournament.... And to some degree Galio mid
: Funplus was a way better team than all the teams they fought until now, we need to be realistic. They deserve that crushing win although G2 deserves some respect too.
They are a great team, I am more surprised that G2 couldn't do what G2 does. Keep fighting with a good mentally. It just seemed to me after game 1 that they did so many mistakes that they would normally not do when they are a game down. Looking at the SKT matches they only got 1 of 5 barons in the series and still took them 3-1 because they did smart macro plays... EDIT: I am not saying the Pheonix shouldn't have won, I am saying it felt off from how the G2 played and drafted
: G2 didn't play worlds they played NA Soloqueue.
I think it was disappointing to see G2 in that state... G2 did SO many smart plays last week against SKT, while here they were so passive and then took bad fights when they could take map priority instead...
: Everyone happy? Pyke Super NERFED.
Are you talking about the lethality changes? Because those items really only are hella nerfed if you buy 3 of them... And are actually slightly buffed when buying two of them...
: I miss dominion :C
Me too... And the old rework of Taric...
Timarius (EUW)
: Clepto MF
I saw a game where Hashinshin had managed to get 900 gold at minute 20 from klepto procs. He had procced klepto 180 times in a span of 20 minutes gaining gold equal to 3 kills, not counting the gold sacks he probably also collected... So let us assume 1800 additional gold at minute 20 which is equal to 6 kills giving a huge item advantage. That is more worth the conqueror
: {{champion:32}} <-- Who even is this?
Ye I dunno man, I've heard rumors that he is one of the greatest late game tanks in the game, but idk
sbepi (EUW)
: i saw the video, and i was hyped for the concept but right now saying senna is an adc AND a support, is like saying u can play ashe support x) senna has the same problem of ashe support, the only difference is that ashe as early poke dmg, senna late dmg nothing more her w is supposed to be the cc that make her a support? really? why just don't use it on an adc has xhayah e (that's why she will played only adc, her kit is not for a support role (same problem of pyke kit))) if they will try to balance her more as a support, that means she lose dmg and attack speed at least and maybe passive scaling, if that happens she is no more even a support, because support range wins a lane by poke right now the meta botlane (support) is nautilus/thresh/leona/blitz, u think senna support is gonna be good at least vs one of this champs?
I think it depends on who you are laning with. Like a mage or a bruiser might actually give the pressure needed to ignore the heavy all in supports
RepοrtHer (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Chillingfrost,realm=EUW,application-id=Mpd1UjGe,discussion-id=2Zw1Foej,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-03T13:17:59.613+0000) > > So you are saying a 20 sec cd keystone are going to take EVERYONES mana? At lvl 18 with 600 AP it is going to burn 190 mana. People at lvl 18 has around 1000 mana so if everyone on your team hits the same target he will not have any mana yes. But if everyone on the team hits the same target he will still has to back anyway that is what happens if you get hit by every ability from a poke comp... Also if everyone takes this keystone no one is really going to run out. I think the most broken thing about this is that it also deals a good amount of scaling damage, honestly removing the damage and give it a bit more scaling mana burn wouldn't hurt, because then you have to choose whether you are playing to nullify your opponent and then survive laning phase for less damage in the lategame(meteor/Aery vs mana burn mechanic). > > You are seeing an unfun mechanic I see diversity in how you are going to play laning phase since champions like Vladimir, Kennen, Akali, Rumble, Aatrox, Garen, Katarina, Shen, Renekton and some other mana less champions exist. Yeah, what you are saying its true. Champions who use energy or no resource at all won't benefit from this rune at all, since they wont be able to steal mana. Also dont forget this can be dodged like meteor. Im updating the Mana Burn.
Actually it was more like a counter argument that they don't get affected by this rune, and therefore won't get nullified becuase a whole team is using that rune :)
RepοrtHer (EUNE)
: New Domination Small Runes Idea
You should remmember to give Greenfather's gift a cd when used... Or else that just makes the ranged vs top matchup unwinable
Smerk (EUW)
: Nah, mana burn is just not fun. I can imagine all kinds of "fun" scenarios. E.g pick it for whole team and you can win all fights by poking mana from your opponents. They can't fight if they have no mana. Or all 10 with rune, super fun for adcs. Everyone else is just a meatshield, because they can do nothing while oom. And that's just a normal SR, imagine how that will work on ARAM. You can't go back to restore mana. And you can't really wait for it to regen naturally. One random spell hit and you're back to 0. So yeah, it's better that we don't have such mechanic
So you are saying a 20 sec cd keystone are going to take EVERYONES mana? At lvl 18 with 600 AP it is going to burn 190 mana. People at lvl 18 has around 1000 mana so if everyone on your team hits the same target he will not have any mana yes. But if everyone on the team hits the same target he will still has to back anyway that is what happens if you get hit by every ability from a poke comp... Also if everyone takes this keystone no one is really going to run out. I think the most broken thing about this is that it also deals a good amount of scaling damage, honestly removing the damage and give it a bit more scaling mana burn wouldn't hurt, because then you have to choose whether you are playing to nullify your opponent and then survive laning phase for less damage in the lategame(meteor/Aery vs mana burn mechanic). You are seeing an unfun mechanic I see diversity in how you are going to play laning phase since champions like Vladimir, Kennen, Akali, Rumble, Aatrox, Garen, Katarina, Shen, Renekton and some other mana less champions exist.
RepοrtHer (EUNE)
: New Precision Small Runes Idea.
There is already another rune in the domination tree that gives 14% spell vamp. That one was almost exclusively taken when it just gave a flat 2,5% spell vamp because it gave a good amount of sustain. Now you can have 1,5%+2% spell vamp with this rune at minute 6 if you are good at lasthitting. Vladimir would embrace it and some other champions. I like the idea, but might really need some fine tuning. I don't get number 3? Is there a cd on that effect or is it just as long as at full hp deal an additional 5-10% current hp? Because if it the last poke champions are gonna love that effect.
RepοrtHer (EUNE)
: New Sorcery Runes Idea.
Insight is broken, mana burn is a mechanic I would like to see in this game in some form or the other but will probably never happen. I think having something that says "For each 3 lvls get 5% more experience" might be a better way to express sage, since sages gather experience and wisdom ^^ Or passively gains a bit of experience while in river, but these things might either be too underpowered or an extreme game changer
Smerk (EUW)
: 1. Won't happen, mana burn is super unfun mechanic to play against, especially if you're playing as someone who usually doesn't build any mana items 2. I'm not a jungle player, so I'm indifferent on this one, looks ok. 3. There is Cosmic Insight rune in Inspiration tree. Your suggestion is 3 times more powerful than it even without that clearly overpowered ms buff. Maybe it could work as keystone, but not as minor rune 4. Yeah, kinda boring and pointless, nobody who is skilled enough would ever use it, especially considering other options in that row
I think it is sad that mana burn isn't a thing in this game. But most because you almost never run out of mana if you know how to manage your mana and backs well, while in some way or another mana burn would allow a different form for outplay happen :-) nr. 3 is really good but remmember cosmic insight gives 5% cdr to everything, not only summoner spells. Though I remmember when unsealed spellbook or what it is called had a 25% innate cdr and it just ran ammock. Movementspeed buff is OP I agree on that I would also like to see some kind of experience manipulation that is NOT unique to Zilean. I think it was cool to have the option of "power leveling" where you tried to get a couple of lvls on your opponent through maxing out on everything exp related (See Siv HD)
: > I must admit that I am disappointed in the itemization changes... I think it is cool enough that lethality itemization is getting expanded a bit but these items are just so bland. "Tiamat now with lethality" "Lethality, now splitpush oriented"(They are going to regret this one mark my words) but I do like the "2 items is gold efficient anymore and you are itemizing to kill squishy" being able to choose other items. Also I was hoping to see some interesting itemization that would at least rival the very diverse mage itemization... Itemisation changes is something a lot of classes need, too many for one preseason... but it’s also something Riot aren’t limited to preseasons to actually do it’s more than possible for riot to deal with other classes in due time. And the items themselves are good, sanguine blade is unique and does have a lot of counter play (great for a split pusher, bad for teamfighting.., good help for split pushers who aren’t doing so well atm) and the Tiamat one is just filling in a hole (a lot of assasins already go Tiamat and have nothing good to turn it into, this fills that hap). > About the map/dragon changes, nice they are trying something new, except they are pushing toward even more early game. Like I have different moods in what I want to play, aggressive early game, moderate midgame or a bit more passive scale up and wait for right moment to sweep in late game and right now I feel like true lategame champions are never going to be in the meta again and it is a playstyle I miss... None of that is early game... besides the alcoves everything is the exact same till prob 23-15 mins with 3rd drake spawn... and even then late game teams aren’t completely out of luck (elder doesn’t spawn until one team has 4 dragons... with smart play you can delay the soul and elder spawn until you are stronger). If anything this benefits late game more. Lastly runes. They were talking about rune changes and I had hoped they would actually introduce more runes for customization and not just "Let us nerf/tweak keystones" > It should be noted that I've played since the end of season 1 but I've played less and less over the years and now I'm down to playing 2 games once every 2-3 weeks so I might not be as in touch with the meta as others on the boards, but I am just sharing thoughts, hope you will do the same :-) Customisation is a tough topic... yeah old runes allowed for it but in reality it was a vast minority that actually bothered most just copied the meta... same here with the current runes it’s just meta run. If Riot add new runes it will just result in the same pseudo options. Plus I’m much happier Riot actually sort out the current runes before adding new ones the 3 getting changes have been so toxic throughout this year
Only thing I have to say is about the dragons. Yeah you need to delay but if you actually go for lategame, you probably won't have the fighting power to delay. Therefore early game is even more crucial because you need to fight around the dragon to delay the elder dragon as a lategame team. This means that if you can't take the fight at 6/11/16/21 minutes then you are done for because the soul and ofcourse the free plating will just give them a HUUUGE lead that will first become non existent at minute 45 which rarely happens now. That is why I say the game is going to become even more early-midgame focused. Again I am not talking about the good buffs rather how are you going to get them if they snowball the lead because your team for the first 15 crucial minutes are playing with 4 champions and a glorified cannon minion versus 5 champions? The rest I see your points except for sanguine blade (they are going to regret that one). Thanks for the reply :)
Rioter Comments
Avers (EUW)
People are really overreacting to the whole solo laners get a bit more exp while they tone down shared exp. But at some point people will know that the tone down is for the bot lane to lvl up at the same pace as this season, but giving solo laners a bit more experience in general. I am actually more concerned of the general jungle exp going down or because of the dragon effects, early game champions are going to rule summoners rift even more now...
Leαf (EUW)
: Thank you riot really
I think the most hype thing for the moment is their anime tbh, but I think it was great for Riot Games to becomes Riot gameS and not Riots game :-P
Jaçke (EUW)
: So ADC's are dead in pre season.
Well it does give an even greater emphasis on the dragon making people probably teamfight even earlier :) But I personally think the dragon soul aspect is just bad design to limit the winning team to get it, just another snowball mechanic :/ The small decrease in exp shouldn't be that big of a deal, but I can see mages/early game champions taking over bot lane now to ensure drakes ...
Phantaa15 (EUW)
: Elise Mini-Rework Idea
The idea is fine, but Elise is funnily balanced around her being a dominant early game champion that can tower dive. Elise's kit screams "go dive with me and kill people under turret". If you change that to a two component hook, she will now be a hook bot in lategame instead of a stun bot... Both her slipperiness and towerdive capabilities are going to suffer with this change though...
Furiranda (EUNE)
: Missed opportunities
1. You do realize that this is not DotA right? Also she is right now one of the scarriest junglers in the game? 2. At least Ivern as a whole is more innovative than the monthly "Let the champ use the camps against the enemy" suggestion... Fun for whom? Ivern? The enemy team? Your own team? I think this mechanic hasn't been introduced because it is NOT fun for both enemy and yourself... 3. Read their lore, acknowledge how scary they actually are (of course you probably didn't play when the jounal of justice paper was a thing)? "troll" should never be "they look like a troll pick"... That is not how that works...
Infinitty (EUW)
: I mean it's broken because of shielding that also shields closer team members witch also provides a healing by the end of it's duration... not broken because of demage :D So you just get a heavy frontline with that rune... he engages, all team gets a shield, meaning they get harder to put out of the fight and when the fight is over they even get a small amount of HP...
Yeah I can see that it is overtuned to some degree, but should be easily tuneable. Also it depends on how close you are supposed to be to the guy with the rune and whether or not the shield is still there. I think in an engage scenario this rune is actually okay and not OP because you would land your combo before anybody else could get close enough to get the shield stacks. But all in all this rune is more a numbers thing ^^
Infinitty (EUW)
: That rune looks beyond broken... hell no Imagine Mundo with that rune.... that rune would auto win the game
Hmmmm, I tuned it wrong yes. No it is not beyond broken, compared to aftershock... So in the instance that you "engage" as mundo. You hit the cleaver, and the 4 seconds start (1 stack) you run up to them which will take you 2/3 seconds of time, let us say 2 seconds. Now you can auto attack 3 times in a period of 2 seconds (counting e as an auto reset) and you will proc w 4 times (equal to 1,33 stacks) and maybe, just maybe another cleaver for a total of 6,33 stacks or 25,33% max hp shield for 5 seconds from here. Let us compare that to aftershock. As far as I am concerned after shock will give approximately 100 armor and mr on a target with 100 armor and magic resist for 2,5 seconds. This will bump their damage reduction from 50% against everything except true damage to 66% against everything except true damage. This will mean that your effective hp will be Max hp/(1-0,66)=3*max hp Compared to before max hp/(1-0,5)=2*max hp So the total "theoretical shield" is equal to (3/2-1)*100%=50% of max hp I dunno but I think 50%>25,33% but that is just me :-) Also it doesn't give additional damage compared to aftershock. Though a real comparison would of course be with Guardian, and there I might need to nerf it a bit in comparison. Could make it only on yourself or reduce it to 2% on yourself instead.
Jesi Oni (EUNE)
: Every pro adc is using overheal with bloodline
Funny, cause when I search on it, I can't find one pro carry actually using overheal and not triumph, but might be my imagination...
: > [{quoted}](name=ˉÐęqûńˉ,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=fTIIRb5G,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-24T07:48:37.523+0000) > > I think Riot wants Karma to be played as a Support, not as a Mid laner. I noticed there isn't even an alternative start besides Spellthief's. So I don't think they plan such a rework to make her playable in another lane, because then, why not ask this for every other support champion as well? > > You should probably play Support, otherwise, you are taking your chances with a supp in mid lane. Why all of a sudden? Karma was played professionally in mid lane for way more than 3 years, and nobody budged. RIOT themselves claim how they hate to enforce champions to move to one position, and that they support flex picks and experimenting. Just how do you plan on saying that while literally limiting everything to one lane? Karma is currently not even close to the strongest supports, and outside of her decent poke, she's practically useless lategame. And even if we move Karma to support only. Karma needs good AP ratios, as thats pretty much her core (even as a supp). Karma is much closer to Brand's playstyle, or Vel'koz (who btw are also mages with high AP ratios), than to an actual shield support (Janna for example). If you want to force her into support make Q do reduced damage to minions and crap like that. That'd actually help her in the support role even. Dont take away the only thing she was useful for as a support, which is a lot of poke harrass and decent shielding.
Funny how you say that, but there is A LOT of instances where they nerf alternate builds because they didn't like them, but was only played in a certain lane (like tank karma, AP Varus, AP Kog'maw, Tank Ecco, Pyke not being able to solo lane anymore and so on)
Rioter Comments
: it takes effort and that's what rito scared of
I would be happy to have dominion back with one of the older patches, being able to play something vintage, like pre newest rework Taric (never liked the first iteration of this champ, and the newest have been nerfed quite a lot cause ulti is pretty good)
: You should be careful with champions that mix AS and HP as there is only one item that has both As and HP: triforce. It might become hard to build your champion like this. I don't understand how your AS ratio work. Does it multiply your base damage? Because then your abilities will get huge power spikes when increasing their ranks and AS will become really too important for your character. The passive can be fun but maybe unbalanced. You get a huge pushing power even at level one. I think you should go for something like how Graves is right now and reduce early spread damage to improve in the late game. Maybe something like 10-40% (level 1-18) spread damage and 75% damage to main target. Second question: How does this passive interact with Iceborne? The second part of the passive can be useful but HP ratio are always hard to deal with. With this ratio you can build just a bit of HP and have Brand's damage. Maybe you should go for something less significant like 0,2/0,6/1% at level 1/7/13. Concerning the other abilities they look good. A bruiser that dashes in the front line, makes everything explode before retreating. It seems fun but maybe lacks a bit of counterplay. Overall I think the champion is pretty cool and the ultimate fun.
I did it because you should choose whether you need the hp for tankiness and burst or AS for dueling power and "support". Bonus Attackspeed which means. If you got 35% bonus Attack speed then on a 50% of bonus attackspeed it would be 17,5 extra damage, so it doesn't scale with his pr/lvl attack speed Iceborne should be weird here, but like I would only say it procs around main target just like tiamat, because getting hit by 8 iceborne procs because you are in the middle of a wave doesn't sound like fun and gives him WAY too much pushing power then. Also I looked at the burn thingie and also came to the conclusion that those numbers should be a bit smaller.
: Qyex, The Drums of the Jungler. Champ concept
I like the general concept of a drumming guy (we need more actual musical instrument champions in league) though his kit as is will always be too strong. Why you might ask? He is the only champion in the game that can CC lock multiple targets for 6,8 seconds... And can reliably cc lock multiple targets for 4,8 seconds when he hits lvl 9. The closest other champion that can do anything similar would be morgana at 4,5 seconds on a single target with q+r.
: (idea) a Better Dark Harvest
I think that when DH just got reworked it was an absolute nightmare to deal with... 2 and especially 3 will just bring this back... But DH is just a really hard rune to balance because of its properties as an infinitely stacking rune :/
: Designers usually won't read these posts if you wanna make this post notable you must draw the concept provide some visual materials and if you can design the champion on the game engine and animate him if you have experience in that field or get a friend who can to help other than that i doubt the raw text post will get enough people involved to hype it enough for the designers to pick the idea up, riot right now have dedicated plans for upcoming champions and reworks so it will be hard for them to adjust those plans unless it is a really really good idea.
Can only hope :-) And no I won't do that kind of work for them, I am not getting payed, but I might at some point get a bit of attention from riot and that would be nice :D Should probably write that it would be nice to get a bit of feedback from riots gamedesigners Did you like the design since you wanted to give guidance? :-)
Rioter Comments
: Anyone who took a while to look at some pantheon videos on youtube very much knows that the champ definetely does NOT suck. And yes, we had a big thread here where the usual know-it-all-i-used-to-main-champ-X-now-its-trash were swearing that Pantheon's rework failed and the champ is dead. Big deal, as usual. That's what happen everytime a champ is reworked, and almost everytime they are absolutely wrong.
Ultimately, the average player knows jack shit of how scaling, base damages and ability synergy work in LoL :P
Chanchu (EUW)
: Riot, give this guy an internship
Depends if anyone else agrees with you :P Though I am not interested in an internship, but I do like game design and sharing ideas :D
Diävolo (EUW)
: I mean, Sylas wasn't meant to be an assassin and he ended up being just a tanky Akali.
Yeah but comparing Sylas to this design is like comparing a banana to a piece of meat. They both taste great but functionally does stuff differently :) Also Sylases kit is SO overloaded with a dash, a gap closer, a magic damage shield a bit of damage and a total of 125% ap scaling. This is one ability. Not even talking about the fact he has an mini dash execute, over the top heal which makes him impossible to trade against with a total of 115% ap scaling(not counting the 40% health thingie) second ability btw. Third and last is 120% ap scaling AOE ability And then the sheen effect that just adds 20% ap to every damage ratio in a AOE bringing his ap scaling without stealing any ulties to a total of: 125+115+120+60=420% ap scaling. I've never in my league days seen ANYONE have that high total AP ratio and I've played this since season 1 so for me it was obvious that he would become an AP assasin even though he wasn't meant to be one... Like I am speechless that riot didn't see this one comming and he have had nerfs to his AP scalings
: Sounds like a recipe for uncontrolled snowballing, and I think we have enough of that already right now.
Depends how you look at it. Instead of 80 AP/50 AD you are exchanging this for a way to get a specific lvl faster. Yeah it is a different kind of snowballing and some champions need that in this quick meta. For others this would only delay their very reliant build paths because they are already early game driven. I just think new(or old actually) mechanics would be a fresh change
: so riot still doesnt care about gangplank ???
I would just change when his barrels come online to lvl 6/11 instead of 7/13. Should do plenty for good old GP
Chanchu (EUW)
: I like this concept tbh
Thank you :-) I also tried to fiddle the numbers in a way that made it clear in what stages of the game the champion was strong^^
Rioter Comments
Diävolo (EUW)
: No please. We already got Sylas and he's too much. Mr is useless and we don't need a tanky assassin. Thank you
In what part of this kit do you see an assasin? Just curious
: Decay stacks are cool. Maybe a bit too strong though. Once you manage to put 2 stacks of decay you are nearly sure to get a kill, or at least take a good trade. The main problem though is the base stats. Lvl 1 hp are lower than a minion's and armor/margic resist are around Thresh's level 1. Sure, late game stats will be able to 1v9, but to reach that you will need to survive the first levels. Overall feeling for the champion might make her a bit like a Nasus. High growth but weak early game. Maybe look at Vladimir's stats to get a better idea of how you can create a champion that uses HP to increase other stats.
I might just increase the /lvl scaling to 150 so the champion bolsters the overall highest base hp at lvl 18 of 3000 and starts the game at 470 hp(which at lvl 2 is 620 and 3 770). Also the passive was inpsired by Pykes inability to buy hp but get ad instead, not vladimirs "I am a AP burst mage" but we all know he also has 4k hp in the late game and I wanted to differentiate this champion from Vladimir. I think the 75 extra aa range and the 50 on improved q should with this change do something for this champ in toplane at least ^^. The whole champ is made as a "You should come kill me or I will scale away from your ability to hurt me" The decay stacks are a cool mechanic and the idea was when the champion get its real acces to it, it would be able to start taking people on, with help from a jungler. It has no gap closing mechanics so either the player would need to go in almost aa range to get the first decay stack or hit the AoE w, which would then force the player to go into aa range to get the second stack for the actual grab mechanic on e. But the champ is made to be a CC machine but only if the enemy actually wants to attack. And yeah I wanted a bit of the feel of Nasus but in a more " I stand here with my team so choose your engage wisely" kind of champ.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments


Level 61 (EUW)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion