Hydnoras (EUW)
: Nope, it is not your right. You even get banned for it because it classifies as griefing. It is their right though to take your jungle camps if they are behind. No one is going to take his camps at early levels (that is griefing) and at the point of a game where they start taking them, it's completely fine. Jungle is not a carry role anyway so it's not like they absolutely need all the farm available on the map. One good way of looking at this is that if your laners start to take your camps, you most likely aren't doing your job well because they take those camps to stay in the game. Meaning you didn't have any form of pressure so they could get minions instead of your camps. You deserve to have your camps stolen at that point.
Actually they do take my camps at early level (read OP). Even if they leave my very first clear, once I've done one clear it's considered a FFA but if I touch a lane minion I get flame. Sorry but on one hand I get told "jungle is not a carry role you don't need farm" and if my team is losing or I'm behind "omg better jgl wins" "gg noob jungle" etc etc so please can the community choose one and stick to it. I love how you just assume the laner is taking the camp for a good reason "to stay in the game" because "the jungler isn't doing his role properly" when my original argument was not "never touch my camps" it was "stop taking my camps when it's putting me behind". I can't pressure the map, like you want me to, without also farming. I'd love to zoom around ganking, pressuring, taking objectives with 0 cs and let my laners have all of it but game mechanics do not allow for that.
Arnoter (EUW)
: Its just stupid, when I play jungle I dont even tax becasue I dont want to make them lose anything. Most of the People dont even know that Junglers get extra-exp from Camps, they just dont care. Its the type of people that cant be Teamplayers.
I actually don't know when to tax - any time I touch a minion I just get flame so I leave it. But when I can I prefer to just feed my lanes because I don't want to solo carry - I'd rather the whole team get a small gold lead and can win their lanes.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Hansiman (EUNE)
: Upgrading shards is always the cheapest way to get champions. As long as you don't care which champion you unlock next, and you just want to unlock as many as possible, upgrade the shards you can.
> [{quoted}](name=Hansiman,realm=EUNE,application-id=00edEA0o,discussion-id=v4B5ROvB,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-04-02T14:14:14.243+0000) > > Upgrading shards is always the cheapest way to get champions. As long as you don't care which champion you unlock next, and you just want to unlock as many as possible, upgrade the shards you can. Thanks. How does the shard upgrade compare to the store discounts?
Rioter Comments
TheLynxMan (EUNE)
: I'd replac that Janna with Sona.
I just chose Janna because she's cheap but you're probably right there, Sona is more of an archetypal "support" champ.
: From both sides of the spectrum I just can say that is a difficult topic to talk about.It's rather annoying when the enemy jungler is camping your lane and your jungler doesen't decide to counter gank to stop the slaughter.But I also understand that sometimes you can't force yourself to gank because the lane is pushed or any other reason.
Junglers do not "camp". If you find the enemy jungler is ganking you a lot or is in your lane frequently, it's because you're an easy target and either overextending a lot, making a lot of mistakes or are simply bad. The enemy jungler, I guarantee you, is NOT sat in the river bush the entire game waiting for you. He's simply doing his thing, clearing away his jungler and noticed that you're stood under his tower for the fourth time so decides to make another trip for his free kill gold. If you ward properly and check the map (especially if you are past the river) then it's actually quite hard for the enemy jungler to gank unless you've already fed him because you have a very large window of time to run back to your turret. If you're overextended then you're an easy gank but if you've frozen your lane close to your turret and have warded I honestly can't see how you could be getting "camped".
: I played 10 Games of Aram on a fresh Account, New Player Experience
The new player experience certainly needs an overhaul. You have some good points but I'm not sure about all of them. Here is how I'd design it. When the new-player opens LoL for the first time they'll play as Ashe in the midlane of Summoner's Rift just so they can learn the absolute barebones of the game: cs, get gold, buy items, kill, destroy towers, push, destroy nexus. After completing this tutorial they'll be presented with a list of quests to choose from for each role. The new player chooses a quest and they'll be given a free champ appropriate to that role and will play a highly scripted version of Summoner's Rift against varying numbers of bots. The jungle tutorial may contain 3 bots (enemy jungle and a bot lane to introduce the concept of ganking). Depending on which role they play they'll be put in a different position: Support - Janna (or maybe Sona?) ADC - Ashe Mid - Annie Jungle - Warwick Top - Garen In these more specialised tutorials the new player will be given more information about their specific role. They'll learn about what an ADC or midlaner is, what it's goals are and what makes them different. They'll learn why we put the ADC in bot lane. They'll also learn about the different stages of the game: early game, mid game and late game - what they mean, what they should be doing at those times and when they start and end. In the jungle tutorial there will be a stronger focus on objectives such as herald, dragon and baron and ganking. In the support tutorial there will be a focus on warding and an overview of the types of support (tankier sups such as alistair or thresh, focus on cc such as janna or morgana). The concept of overextending needs to be introduced also. For the first playthrough they should pick a top/mid/bot. Afterwards they'll be allowed to play as support or jungle. The tutorial does not need to last the length of a full game. Ideally they should last no more than 15 min each to prevent boredom. Once one laning tutorial, support and jungle tutorials have been completed the player can try out Co-op vs AI until they reach the required level for PvP. PvP will require that they complete all tutorials. If the player queues as "mid" in Co-op vs AI but hasn't completed the required tutorial then they'll be informed there's a higher chance they'll be autofilled. Blind pick should be changed such that the player queues for a specific role - like in draft - but you don't take turns picking and you don't ban champs. You're assigned a lane but that's as far as it goes - just to give some structure for new players and prevent misunderstandings like two players thinking they called mid first. Draft pick will remain unchanged. There's no need to replicate the quests for matchmade games. After completing all the quests I think every 450 BE champ should be awarded to the player. Other quests can be made available over time e.g for bonus BE and exp that reward you for playing well. There could be a quest for claiming first tower gold, shutting down an opponent, killing dragon 3 times before 25 min. Use the rift herald to destroy three towers in one game (can be done but hard).
Eveninn (EUW)
: I personally feel like it's totaly possible to lane decently without requiring the own jungler, no matter of the enemy's actions. Then again, I'm midlaner, so my job is to support my jungler, the easiest way to do this is just not require them. \*shrug*
> [{quoted}](name=GPet,realm=EUW,application-id=00edEA0o,discussion-id=Ad5AvL69,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-29T17:43:18.165+0000) > > I personally feel like it's totaly possible to lane decently without requiring the own jungler, no matter of the enemy's actions. > Then again, I'm midlaner, so my job is to support my jungler, the easiest way to do this is just not require them. \*shrug* Mid is the hardest lane to gank tbf. It's not only the shortest lane making escape much easier but midlaners can outburst you so easily. A good lux or morgana can be hard ganks due to their cc. You basically can't gank unless they are either bad or try to all-in your midlaner first and blow their abilities. The jungler should be on the lookout for ganks in all lanes but it's true, sometimes there's simply no opportunities to gank a lane and your lane wins anyway. It's fun when you're running across the map ganking everything and getting fed but you can quickly fall behind on xp if you're spending too much time ganking so it is a bit better to maximise farming, objectives and map control. Furthermore, if the jungler is constantly ganking in lanes then a smart enemy jungler will take note of your location and start stealing your camps. Clearing one section of the jungle is around the same amount of gold as a kill and also gives xp so he can easily start to get ahead.
: Constantly ganked second overview
Camping is such a misnomer. Very rarely will the jungler be waiting in a bush outside your lane hoping you make a mistake. It's much easier to take the free exp and gold from the jungle than it is to try to gank a lane. If you find that the enemy jungler is coming all the time to gank you then you need to ask yourself why. If you've frozen your lane towards your tower's side then he's never going to come gank, I guarantee it. If you overextend constantly then yeah, he's gonna keep coming for you. He's not "camping" you, he's farming as he should be but he's checking his map and noticing that the noob enemy ADC has overextended for the 4th time and decided to go get his free gold. My favourite thing as a jungle main is when you lvl 2 or 3 gank the top lane, he instantly teleports back in and overextends again, you come back and kill him again and he shouts on all chat "OMG NOOB JUNGLER STOP CAMPING TOP". Then you clear the enemy topside jungle, and run back to toplane to get your third kill. GG. My least favourite thing as a jungler is when my own ADC overextends and keeps giving the enemy jungler and enemy ADC free kills then cries that I never gank. Well I'm not going to come gank under the enemy tower am I? And I'm certainly not going to gank the 4/0 MF at minute 7. You need to take it upon yourself to protect yourself from ganks because after a certain point there's nothing the jungler can do. Maybe you should play jungler for a while to give yourself some perspective. Whenever I find a champ that I hate laning/jungling against I always play a few games as that champ so I can learn how it works, learn its weaknesses and realise it's not OP I just didn't know how to outplay it. Maybe this will work for you. If you try jungling you'll see how tempting it is to just AFK farm, how hard it is to constantly be there when the gank opportunities arise, and how inefficient it is if you DO decide to just sit in the river bush and wait to gank the ADC. You'll also see how hard it is to gank a properly warded lane. Sometimes you'll clear your jungle, walk all the way down to the overextended botside just to watch the enemy walk away long before you arrive. If they make it to the second bush before you catch them it's unlikely they'll die.

DropNucleicAcid

Level 15 (EUW)
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