Get Juk3d (EUNE)
: I suggest playing "easy kill" junglers like {{champion:11}} {{champion:120}} {{champion:19}} so you can just farm for some items and then go and KS every lane aka more items and carry games. I'm not a jungle main but I think it's the best role to climb low elo since you work on your own and it's you who help the team not the other way around
while i agree jungle is a great place to carry a game from, and im a firm believer that toplane is usually won by the jungler. I consider any game where my teammate locks {{champion:11}} to be 80% lost allready. any champ that needs 3 items to carry from the jungle is a lost cause. he's a free kill to any invade early and half the time he ganks he dies and your team gets nothing. {{champion:120}} is better. good early damage, nice mobility, but again needs to horde tons of gold to stay relevant and shouldnt be the teams primary engage. both {{champion:11}} and {{champion:120}} rely on your team engaging for you, then diving in with tons of gold to try and easy-mode the game against distracted squishies and that kind of playstyle is essentially playing simple champs to mitigate your own lack of skill and hope your team plays around you, essentially carrying you. champs that need to be fed AND get carried? im sorry but i dont believe thats carry material. {{champion:19}} however i totally agree his kit is insanely overloaded. hes inescapable to most champions he has temporary CC immunity on two abilities, 3 CCs and deals moderately high sustain damage while building tanky. hes designed to secure kills then be tank enough not to give up the shutdown bonus. he can get laners reliably fed and engage a fight safely. 10/10 would jungle with. other insane junglers include but are not limited to: {{champion:113}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:154}} notice how they all gank early, gank often, get super tanky and can decide when your team enages? all these champs are designed to make the game easier for the rest of your team, to simplifiy thier decision-making and have you make the decisions for them. {{champion:113}} ulted? well i guess we're going in! compensating for the downright dumb teams you get at low rank is not only an easy way to farm honor its an effective way to climb. even dumb teams can win if you make all the important decisions for them and win thier lane for them. just remember! if you gank a losing lane to "fix" it, but YOU take the kill, you walk that 300g into the jungle to hit wraiths with it and the laner isnt any better off! the 150g assist is barely worth the wave he lost in the gank. give them the kill, tax a few minions and they are much better prepared to turn the lane around.
Nijelous (EUW)
: How to not doubt yourself after a loss
I remind myself of the first time i got gold, which season 3. for context in seasons 3-4-5-6-7 i went gold-plat-gold-silver-gold, and i like to think that one silver is becuase i didnt really play season 6 a lot. so i've been doing the grind for a while. the reason i remind myself of season 3's grind to gold is because back then league had a mechanic called clamping. where if you had been in a rank for 100+ games, the system crippled the amount of LP you won and lost to keep you where you were. the idea being it prevented people from lucking out of thier deserved rank. and when i say crippled i mean CRIPPLED. 2lp for a win, -1lp for a loss. snowballing wins didnt get you out of it, but snowballing losses went something like -1,-1,-5,-10,-15,-20. dropped from silver 1 to silver 4 in one notorious week where shen was FTP that i will forever refer to as "the shen free week". it took me 300 ranked wins to get gold that first time, and getting into gold promos involved winning one at 99lp and getting +0lp for that win (yes that was a thing, you could get literally nothing for winning if you were on a winning streak) so i dodged a game (-1lp instead of -2) to "break" the win streak then won one to get the 2 i needed to get into promos. compared to that? whats a -15 lp setback when you win 18. a 50% winrate will inevitably climb pretty fast just down to the whole "free win on promos" thing and clamping getting removed. leagues structure now is much less about one person snowballing the game and more about who gets what team comp and wins the 1-2 teamfights that decide the game. climbing isnt as much about how well you play in any one game, as about how well you do on average over the course of many games, so whats one loss? you are guaranteed losses, its the price of doing business so to speak. you WILL get games where your team all picks greedy glass assassins in top and jungle and you get destroyed by a single tank with some armor as your whole team waits to "clean up" a fight noone wants to initiate. you will get some games where mid or bot feed the few hypercarries that exist 15 kills and your entire team is determined to ignore them over a rammus. as for personally throwing the game? its gonna happen. noones perfect. the difference between a silver player and a plat player isnt a huge wall of skill, never throwing the game and allways carrying solo. its mostly just time, effort and a willingness to focus on core gameplay skills that are largely undervalued nowadays. i find it helps to not pick champions that NEED to win. sure khazix might be a threat once hes taken all the gold from 5 successful ganks, but that means hes essentially starved mid and bot out of that gold (which isnt what junglers were initially for but noone seems to remember that) and might still get 1-shot in a stun if thier tank or support is good. sure riven or fiora will carry a game if the enemy team is daft enough to feed them, but better players know that to win lane doesnt allways mean to kill your opponent a bunch of times. sometimes its just denying a hard matchup the ability to snowball. if two champs come out of lanephase 0/0/0 with equal farm, one of them is winning, and its never riven. dont just copy stuff you see streamers doing, find what your elo struggles with and provide it. assassin/carry jungle might be meta but in silver the biggest advantage you can give your team is a safe easy engage. playing a tank that doesnt need 10k gold just to start playing the game means you can give more gold to your ADC ect. and if it helps, im a firm believer that there are a set number of mistakes/minute in any low-ranked game. if your team doesnt make them, the enemy team will. winning is more about making less mistakes than it is about trying greedy plays and hoping they work. will all that to focus on i barely have the time to feel mad at myself. sure i get frustrated at poor teams, and a bit ashamed when I know that the main reason for a lost game was me, but i just take a second to pause, breathe in, breathe out, and remind myself that ce's la vie, such is life. there were allways going to be games like that. it was inevitable, and now theres one less of them to do between me and plat. {{sticker:garen-swing}}
: Why do you play League?
of the the main MOBA's (League,Dota,HoS), I personally feel league is the best fit for me. HoS just struck me as a blizzard cash-grab attempt, and it never felt right to crossover all the different blizzard games like that. having villains from diablo and and Warcraft fight starcraft guys? The idea just feels wrong. I downloaded the beta but between allready having memorised my personalised league binds (i run camera controls on WASD like old RTS games and use 1-4 for spells, Q,E for flash ignite) it just seemed like too much effort to learn an entirely new game for a balance team thats notoriously bad at pvp games. given that WoW PvP was allways insanely unbalanced and HS is the exact same, i have no regrets for not learning this game. Also league and dota had been out for about 3ish years before HoS came out and that advantage is insane. blizzard were late to the party on this one. Dota i DID try. i had a few friends who had just by chance tried DoTA before league and did the usual thing where each party extolls the virtue of the game they play ect, so was convinced to give it a try. My results werent encouraging. Having to write your own macros into the game because certain characters basically dont function until you do (lycan being a pretty good example) seemed extremely lazy on the part of the devs. guaranteed anyone who takes DoTA seriously just copy-pastes some meta macros found online, so its not about player intuition it just seems like a lazy dev team not bothering to put half the controls into the game. "pet" characters were the games biggest draw for me since at the time league only really had yorrik (pre-rework) and AD malz (joke build). This feeling pretty much carried throughout most of the game. I understand that both League and Dota started as modded warcraft 3 games from a dev team that was initially 1 company until they split due to creative differences or something into LoL and Dota, but Dota feels like it never really strayed far from that warcraft 3 mod, like the devs got as far out as towers+5champs per team then thought "this will do", hence macros ect. The balance philosophy of DoTA is essentially the plot hook of the "incredibles" movie. when everyone is broken, noone is broken. exept thats not really how it works. in playing with my friends i was initially relegated to support, since it was explained that DoTA is so snowbally a lot of games are won by 1 person getting mildly fed, then using his broken kit to guarantee getting INSANELY fed, then 1v5ing your team to death. considering people in LoL dont even like when assassins are strong, i imagine some people can sympathise with this seeming silly. So as support my job was to sit behind tower, essentially afk since XP range in dota is massive, and "eat" (deny) the enemy laner the gold/xp of one minion every 2 waves or something. yawn. this went on for the entirety of lane phase. just sat under tower pressing 2 every so often, then teamfight phase came, and it turns out the champ i was playing has an ult similar to brand's ult, where you bounce between champions, exept it can bounce way more times and stuns everyone it hits. so after doing allmost literally nothing for half the game, i was allowed to basically carry it by stun-locking thier entire team by pushing 1 button. That was the nail in the coffin for DoTA. but why league at all? well of the 3 mobas, league seems the most "pvp". HoS is very "blizzard vs your wallet" and Dota is in most respects just an RTS game with only one unit, more about mimicking the efficiency of korean starcraft players and maxing your CPS and micromanaging stuff, its very "you vs the control system" where you do your own thing well and if you are good you get to ignore or immune your opposing team enough to win. league is MUCH closer to a fighting game the ranges are lower, the cc is weaker and the mobility creep means most matchups can be fought well from the winning AND losing side. a lot of the core principles on the game focus on how to read your opponent, how to mindgame your opponent into a disadvantageous position or simply trying to be one step ahead of them mentally to harass them out of lane, whether its in toplane knowing when to stun the enemy riven to combo-break her, or predicting where to lead skillshots in mid or trying for cheeky auto-attack harass at botlane when your opponent locks into a last-hit animation while keeping an eye on the enemy support so you dont get engaged on for it. it feels very edge-of-your chair at times. I dont play mobas to farm creeps and RTS to to victory, same way i dont play Civilisation games to AFK to culture victories. Im here to test my mettle against an opponent where possible, hopefully from level 1, i want to WIN my lane and snowball the entire team to victory, or play safely and mitigate danger while trying to pick off lone enemies if I'm behind. I've been playing league since around 2012. Im a firm believer in old-school game knowledge, even though what everyone knew 4-5 years ago few people seem to remember today in light of leagues transition from MOBA game to "e-sport". its not allways a happy ride watching the depth get whittled away, with off-meta strats that used to be praised nerfed into unplayability to force the teamfight meta so announcers get to scream "AAAAAACCCCEEE" to make the game seem exiting to spectators. and i dont allways agree with the way the league devs balance things, as some champs have clearly overloaded kits designed to HAVE work-arounds to thier opponents, and some champs have gimmicky kits with mechanics that thier opponents can work around (GPs initial rework is a good example). but overall you can allways see that the devs put work in on this game and really pay close attention to the balance and every season they try something to mix up the game and keep it fresh. anyhow, wall of text aside? TLDR: league has a dev team that put a lot of work in and out of the two mobas that existed when i started playing mobas, league is more about fighting your opponent well compared to Dota being more about fighting the counter-intuitive controls well.
Kerkoc (EUW)
: Swain rework and gameplay
ok, so looking at the numbers we can see a few things. firstly, his hugely underwhelming passive has been moved to a passive on his Q, and the numbers shift from 13-30 to 3% max mana. admittedly its only on Q kills but with rod being so good with him eventually your Q costs next to nothing when farming . instead you get his NEW passive the pull thing. it gives him something to get ganked with on a passive. take the E first since you shouldnt need your Q to farm and its not like its got the range to harass people and you have the threat of a snare AND a knockup level 1. heals for a marginal amount but mostly just means you have an unmissable thresh E on a passive so your jungler loves you. also the range is mental so you can contribute to fights over walls if you get low and need to stay safe, makes chasing people easier. traditionally chasing people as swain wasnt easy pre-rylais and for a guy who wants to be right in your face this was an issue. both his previous CCs had short ranges and the W needed the Q to be anywhere near relyable. next the Q. well apart from what ive allready mentioned its kinda meh. its not amazing. beatrix was arguably better for lazy-boi farming and had a higher AP scaling assuming they stood in it for 2 seconds but when did that ever happen outside of bronze. its good for applying rylias and the damage is decent at short range which means he can help with dragon without ulting it and take blue on his own pretty quickly. its a poor farm tool early but isnt bad late. as for the W swap? im happy with it. nevermove was a nice reference but with the range being what it was you needed the Q to even stand a change of hitting it which made you insanely predictable. it, along with his old Q and E suffered from long, loooong cooldowns in an era where most mids can shove the wave pretty easy level 2-3 or harass every 6 seconds ish. having to pay old-champ mana costs for old-champ cooldowns was crippling him. the new W isnt insanely strong or anything, but it IS interesting. being able to scout bushes with a huge-range poke is invaluable. "has the jungler left yet?" "is the tribush a trap?" "wheres that low HP carry at?" "are they doing/baiting an objective". gives you a workaround for when your support hits midgame and inevitably stops warding to rush an AP item (silver rank wake me up inside) or just if your team is getting its head kicked in and has 0 map control. is it slow? yea. is it likely to hit anyone on its own? no. but its decent for slowing down people you chase by forcing them to walk around it. its definitely better than old nevermove just for the utility. im not exactly diamond but even in silver it saves me repeatedly allmost every game. the E? well if anything point-and-click derp damage should be removed wherever possible on APCs. having non-skillshot damage tends to limit what riot will let a champ get away with and the more damage you dont have to aim the less mobility and CC you tend to get outside of the odd mistake. since we all knew swain wasnt getting a dash swapping out a DoT that did meh damage unless you followed it up, but was so low-range you needed to use your other abilities first to land it is a good trade. the new E isnt foolproof but gives him a strong level 1-2 combo combined with the passive and gives you 3 CCs total pre-6 so whatever lane you are in is now insanely gankable. jungler runs in with a stun, gives you your passive, sets up your E, makes the W connect. all the time the junglers wailing on your midlaner and hes hammering flash. its not blocked by minions and the range is good, but you'll need practice turning it around at the right time because thats really important. snaring a minion instead of your opponent is a bit crippling as you need to farm those stacks. the difference between 0 stacks and 5 is just over 100% ap ratio on the ult finisher and this is your ONLY ticket to getting them. it puts new swain behind a bit of a skill floor but "land a skillshot" shouldnt be out of your reach if you are aiming to play Aps finally. the piece-de-resistance. the big bad bird, exept now its a demon coat because marketing wants them edgy teens reeled in and making super-edgy skins for yasuo wont work forever. anyhow. the biggest and most subtle difference in swain is the ult. it seems the same. it damages the same it heals the same (give or take some numbers) but its actual use could not be more different. riot shifted a LOT of power from the ult to the base kit. lower cooldowns, more CC , more range, more utility. so something had to come out somewhere. before his objective was use his meh abilties to position his ult on the enemy, and let it go to town, making you unkillable at the cost of ALL your mana. it made him reliant on level 6 and to a lesser extent blue. now? your primary input is your QWE, and R is the finisher, the fight--turner. you W and E and spam Q and your passive through the fight as teammates throw CC about to farm ult, then hit 5 stacks and go in, instead of fight starts, throw up ult and try and waddle into position to zhonyas like suicide karthus. important differences? well the healings a tad less. its 16% ap + 45 base now vs 12% AP and 40 base then, but capping at 3 now instead of 5 means in teamfights its not got as much healing potential. that said against 1-3 champs its actually better, has no travel time and the activation gives you 150-400 HP. thats insane. some healing that isnt crippled by ignite? yes please. survive that enemy one-shot combo by strapping on your giants belt then drag them into you and zhonyas up. the damage is also not overwhelming until you heal 450 hp from enemies which assuming 3x(15%ap +40) a second is like 3-4 seconds on a good day, 5-7 on a bad one so it can be a while, but once you DO get it you can AoE for over 100% of your AP if you have 5 souls which arent exactly hard to get. thats blitz-ult damage. the AoE is huge. its like a small nunu ult you can run with. overall im very happy with his rework. he was seeing little to no play before, and what play he WAS seeing was in toplane because he couldnt face midlaners with decent kits, essentially denying the team its fighter/tank for a sustain mage with poor CC. now? well hes not exactly release diana/zyra but hes good enough to play if you like him and do well. which is what really matters. better to have him be decent in the hands of an enthusiast then brainless aoe damage-bird whos got so much unmissable damage the only difference between a bad swain and a good on is a 500 damage W. riot cant ever let stuff like that be strong because "muh esports" wont allow it. its boring to watch so it wont ever be buffed. new swain has enough going on that he will probably stay just short of meta for most of his career unless someones finds a way to break him and riot kill him off. but with his kit i dont see it happening. overall? im sad that hes no longer a bird-toting swaggering pirate-general and now hes malfoy's dad with edgy "inner demons", but glad that we now have a playable noxian general thats healthy for the game.{{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: ###### I want to adress that this is just my opinion and technically no champion is weak if you are good with him/her/it *** {{champion:163}} In my opinion Taliyah is not in a bad spot right now and the only flaw in playing her is her W. Not the ability itself but rather the indicator, it contains the outer cast range and an arrow for the ability itself, though the arrow doesn't reflect the size of it correctly. Laning phase can be pretty boring and you have to play passive, though if you hit the WEQ combo you deal a good amount of damage. I don't think that she gets one-shot during mid and late game thanks to her health pool. My build: (it is important to have something that backs up what I just said, in this case, the health pool) {{item:3027}} {{item:3152}} {{item:3020}} {{item:3116}} {{item:3151}} , {{item:3089}} or {{item:3135}} *** {{champion:240}} You are correct with everything you said. I do prefer building him mostly damage because I like to watch the world burn and his W and R do not scale that bad. (W 20% and R 50% at max range) *** {{champion:41}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:106}} I cannot say anything about the rest because I don't play them.
I cant help but notice the tone of your counterpoints is mostly "its not as bad as it seems". things like "laning phase is boring but you can sometimes do good damage" and "building HP avoids her getting one-shot". while all true, ask yourself this. on other mid champions, do you have to settle for a boring lanephase where you might get some good damage, maybe? do other mids have to buy less damaging, tanky items to avoid being one-shot? not in my experience. most APCs that I would consider "in a good spot" use thier good damage to try and outlpay thier opponents and establish dominance. to win the lane hard as possible early as possible, to try and carry the game. they use high damage and range and CC to try and delete threats without any threat of retaliation, or to AoE massive damage into a teamfight with one rotation, then even if they die the fight is allready won. why pick a mid who is forced to play safe in lane? who might lose the game before she gets a chance to win it because botlane is feeding but she isnt 2 items deep into her build and so cant do anything about it? most midlaners could roam at 6 with a decent chance of a kill. but she is going to be later to level 6 since playing passive denies her the chance of kill XP. i dunno it might just be my opinion but the only champs i see that are worth "playing safe and farming" are champs like {{champion:61}} {{champion:1}} {{champion:99}} who not only have good kill potential thanks to super easy CC or low mana high damage harass, but can pretty much carry a teamfight after farming 2 pure damage items.
: Kled is actually good! He is just a sleeper like Kha'zix. remember when Kha got released and everyon said he is bad and useless? and what is he now?
I am reluctant to accept khazix as a decent paralell to kled. kha WAS bad on release, as he got released along with rengar, who was better in many ways. khazix however had the advantaged of when he DID get fed, after 6, he would leap-combo-leap, as all of his animations were castable during his leap, and at the time itemisation for AD assassins was very good. BC was recently out, we still had Arp instead of ... whatever the thing is that we have now. mobility creep was at a point where kha was one of the most mobile champs in the game ect. so it wasnt so much that HE was bad, it was that when they nerfed all his competition and GUTTED rengar, he was mostly untouched and was made good by lack of opposition and good itemisation. now khazix is practicallly a completely different champ, and thanks to ritos general approach to "playmaker" assassins will remain OP forever. 1sec CD 40%hp nuke in a 1v1 scenario at level 1. nuff said. kled has allmost none of this. his damage IS good at 3 if you get a full combo. but the same can be said of most champs. he is NOWHERE near khazix. his anti-tank ability is one of the most unreliable in the game, and thats pretty much what decides how OP a champ is in jungle-top. his mobility is MUCH worse exept in some extreme circumstances and most of his kit is, like gangplank "counter play abilities". where your opponents can nerf your damage to allmost nothing, while you cant do that to them. if they run out of the Q, its pitiful damage. if they wait for your W to waste itself. you have only your E. at level most champs can take him. even then, what do you do with him if you win? he cant tank anywhere near what a real tank can do, and his damage, while not bad, dont really reward you enough for getting fed, since skaarl is still only 50% of your hp, after which you are a waddling melee dps with no mobility and no hypercarry stats, whos only skillshot takes him AWAY from the people he wants to melee. his engage is OK. but if your team needs that, get sivir. at least she can do a decent job as ADC while providing utility.
: Which champions should be buffed in your opinion?
{{champion:41}} literally the poster child for why "counterplay me" champs aren't viable. used to have numbers worth risking playing a champ with 1 scaling ability and 1 ability that you could deny him access to with an autoattack, but now has been nerfed so hard most juggertanks outdamage him, and with no real mobility or CC, his only gimmick is he maybe does decent AoE with 4 full items IF you stand near the barrel and dont snipe it off him. gets destroyed in lane by allmost everyone. {{champion:59}} used to be tanky, then got nerfed, used to have DPS, then all his items got reworked. not really enough of either stat to comfortably clear the jungle and still b useful, but dosent scale well enough to just farm it. getting 4 kills on him feels like getting average CS on most meta junglers. just needs to be given a definite description. pick either tank or damage and let him do it competitively, or make him a juggernaut. {{champion:163}} really bad. like.... REALLY bad. half the damage of most AP mids. like... why pick her over orianna EVER. and ori hasnt changed since season 2. "low cooldown kite mage"... literally never works since if you are in range, so are they and they will 1-combo you. if she isnt allowed to 1-combo her AoE needs to be better then just meh, and she shouldnt REQUIRE 2 items just to even work, nevermind be useful. ahri does her job with 2 abilities, way better, but can still combo people. {{champion:106}} get 6 kills on volibear. cant kill 1:0 vi, get bursted by kata with average farm. lose to every ADC ever since the only ones played can just sprint away. most supports are tankier with twice the CC. all juggernauts do WAY more damage but actually stick to people. his biggest issue is that he is a juggernaut, that didnt get done in the juggernaut rework. hes the juggernaut that got left behind. {{champion:240}} hes been bad since release. if you deal 50% of his hp in a trade, you can heal past that, he cannot. scales poorly with tank stats and offense stats, cant decide when to use his W, so will lose it having to auto minions. he CAN get fed, but... so can everyone really so thats a moot point. hes just really squishy with meh damage over a medium-long period of time.
: That isn't playing to win, that's playing to handicap. It's selfish.
a win you dont enjoy because you can't play the champs you like playing isnt truly a win at all. expecting other people to stop enjoying this game just to increase thier chances of carrying you is much more selfish. there are of course limits and common sense. building champs in such ways as they do not work, i.e. items the dont scale with ect is rediculous and to noone's benefit. same as playing certain champions that are unplayable in the role chosen for them. i wouldnt consider AP vayne, or tank jungle ezreal to be "off-meta" so much as "trollpick". but saying stuff like "not allowed to play X adc, only caitlyn, ezreal or ashe bcoz meta" is rediculous. just because 90% of sheeple only know how to clumsily immitate the meta (as shown in the number of lee sin/khazix junglers) does not mean the 10% has to fall in line to please tryhards. in any case, you would think people who "play to win" would applaud people picking off-meta. it gives them the excuses they need when they go 0/8 on a meta champ they dont really know and lose. cz god forbid people get good at the game instead of spending all thier time religously studying what (insert generic streamer) is playing.
Zeromatsu (EUW)
: Skins that affect gameplay...
havent seen anyone mention Final Boss Veigar yet. his auto-attack animations are rediculously slow, and the damage seems to land AFTER the autoattack has finished animating. really messes with lots of stuff. makes it hard to last hit as his effective AS on one attack his hugely slower, also makes enemies think that they have stopped taking damage, meaning its safe to flash, only to find out the invisible final frame of his auto had not happened, and they flash thier dead body once the 700dmg lichbane tick pops. closer to the original post tho, Udyr is super clunky anyway. even with the skin. he is just SOOOOOO old. i find with a lot of old champs, thier models struggle to "reset" after being forced into other champs animations. like knockups or knockbacks ect. a lot of the time knew champs can full combo you in thier 1-sec knockup because of the extra 1 sec it takes him to land, reset, then start fighting back. good examples of champs that cause this are yasuo's ult, chamile's E, vi's R ect.
: > [{quoted}](name=WHACK,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=PxazJnr9,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-01-18T14:40:28.489+0000) > > That garbage and that derp skin are literally only around for money making. That's why they'll never upgrade that hideous base model. 0/10 missed topic, sit down and read again.
I'm not sure his point isn't relevant to the thread. seems to me like he is saying they intentionally leave that difference between base skin animations, and expensive skin animation, to incentivise players into buying the max-level skin. could be a mistake, just thats what it seems to me.
: This meta is the most unbalanced meta ever.
only problem with ADCs is the playability gap. i've seen more games carried from behind by a caitlyn simlpy because of her pure disgusting range then any other champion. but without range or mobility carries are untouchable. so you dont see kogmaw, or varus. because without a dash you are dead. mobility is too common in every other lane. even supports have mobility. that and corki needs looking at. since riot tweaked ADCs to be hypercarry or bust, hes just not able to compete. doing wierd mixed damage isnt worth it if your scaling is meh and you need to build Tforce to lane. you just get 3-shot by cait while you try and get to anyone on her team, or Qed 4million times by blue ez and still never get in range. maybe ADCs just look bad now because they have been the easiest role to carry with since the juggernerf. vayne used to be pick-or ban, but now if your team is competant you can sit on her and she dosent ignore it and get a quadra anyway. id be interested to see how MF does, since i havent seen any ADC but cait, vayne, ezreal and a bit of jinx in like..... 50-100 games. but again no mobility. whats the point of an AoE ult if everyone can just dash out of it. and PLEASE. assassins? all have mediocre lane phases but fizz. havent seen a single one thats more of a threat then a 40-min irelia who's done nothing but farm. talon is way more clunky, just cz bronze 5 players never ward and die to roaming doesnt mean he is broken. zed is allmost never played, and considering how fanboy his playerbase is hes gotta be right down in the trash for that to happen. only played assassins i see are jungle kha, who is allways useless since below plat cant play him worth a damn but hes meta anyway, and fizz.
Doomley (EUW)
: Highest chance of success.
definitely wouldnt say highest chance of success. allmost more accurate to say "last seen in LCS/tournament play". used to be "last used by proffessionals from the same reigion". but then riot nerfed a bunch of variant tactics and it became korean meta or bust. but yea often its just people sheeping what pro players play. and i understand why people would think this means best, but its really not. often its "whats most efficient when played to 100%". champs like olaf (when itemisation favors him) become meta since pro's can effectively use his kit to maximise his numbers, and he is a numbers champ. but since the majority of the playerbase is silver or below, the players are usually not up to the task of playing the champs well enough to warrent the pick. case in point, khazix is meta right now because the assassin reworks gave him GREAT itemization. however i detest seeing him at my current devalued MMR, because people just arent good enough at the game to make him worth it. he hoards all the kills, provides NO engage and requires a comp to work around him, which doesnt happen. same applies to most feast or famine champs when they are meta. yasuo for example. stupidly high numbers, but cant remember seeing one who wasnt just an idiot flailing around, hoping to get carried by the 2-item power spike. not to say this is 100% the case. you can get (or at least used to when the game was more varied) rank-related meta. in s2 it was "meta" to ban amumu shen malphite up till gold, since pre-esports people knew how bad they were, and banned champs thier elo couldnt deal with. same with evelynn when she was good. not good enuf to beat pros, but gold and below woulnt take the steps to counter her, and she would abuse that. well, long rant cut short, while "meta" may actually mean something close to an external view of something (like metaknowledge in RPGs is stuff YOU know about the game your character doesnt. or a meta-joke in a TV show is a joke using information the audience have, but the characters dont) such as how we as players can observe trends in the playerbase that arent showcased in the game itself, its largely nonsense. false predictions made from incomplete evidence. saying things like "kha is good in high elo, therefore hes meta and we should play him" is cause-correlation confusion. its like saying "my dog barks when the sun comes up, therefore my dog barking is what causes the sun to come up". realistically its closer to say "high elo players can play khazix well enough that his properly used kit outshines other champions that are simpler". so while its useful to know, just to have an idea what you are going up against most likely, largely ignore it. often "meta" champions in bad hands are easily countered by champions who do what the meta champs do, but more simply. i play a lot of toplane udyr, because toplane AD udyr has insane numbers against people who dont understand him or who dont properly understand how to maximise thier own champion, since he essentially just switches stances and hits people.
OlmiLux (EUW)
: 0:01: /mute all fixed it 4 u
dosent fix ur 0/18 botlane that keep dying to obvious stuff like towerdiving the 12/0 caitlyn. but theres a tiny, TINY chance that "play safe pls, just farm and let mid carry". or "pls stop towerdiving its not working, wait for lategame". might slow thier roll long enough to pull it back. won a game yesterday where bot/mid went about 24 deaths between them, and the game itself was 9/28. pulled it back somehow by calling the vayne on her BS and telling her to spend less time flaming and more time farming. eventually pulled it back on a wierd lifesteal-heavy xin build. sometimes its not about good opponents, but bad teammates. if you can stabilise your team you can often pull it around, but you dont get that chance with /muteall.
Sefi (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Rokąs,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=H1IUglkj,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-12-22T02:01:42.228+0000) > generation of fannies. British or american? They are different terms in different English speaking regions.
i assumed british. its the EUW board. ppl with NA accounts dont bother with EUW, since devs dont bother with forums outside of korea and NA. also, "why the hell are you feeding, you scrublord bonobo" seems a level of banter beyond that of the colonies :P but then again i could b wrong.
: Send a separate ticket to support, outside of the reporting system. Accounts with such "names" and chats are IMO immediately perma-bannable. _(And if Rito doesn't, someone needs to teach them a history lesson)_
perhaps they know more about history then you think. such outright censorship seems to me more like speaking through a flower then providing a good game experience. as it is now, forcing people to name change a few times provides an option for people who have names that they find funny, but unfortunately others do not. better to have riot appear slow and sure in thier punishments, than if they just auto-banned anyone flagged for inappropriate name. they understand that context is more complicated then just "have a robot filter the chat". which is very adult of them. sure this hitler example is an extreme, but better to have one or two people slip through a loophole then to encourage tyranny of the majority, and false-flagging people for insta-bans, a tactic that, ironically enough, was used under a certain old german political party that shall not be named, whereby neighbors would falsely report the practice of a certain frowned-upon religion by people they had disagreements with, to a system that didnt bother to check for context and just went straight to the maximum punishment. so maybe it wasnt riot who needed the history lesson after all?
: Lux is weak, the only thing that's somehow wirred is the hitbox of her laser. You can dodge the graphic but the ult hits you still cause the hitbox is much bigger.
wouldnt go so far as to say she is weak. her E+passive is super easy to land early, procs thunderlords off 1 spell, and gives her an above average farming tool. her lategame is the same playstyle as the one the got her nerfed, back when flashy 1-shot wombos were something riot knew was bad for game health, as opposed to now where they are encouraged for esports. throw out Qs off cooldown, if one lands global someone, if not wait for the next go. she's a good seige chara, but also a good character to turn a losing game around if you are being seiged. like most AoE mids, she does just as well by farming consistantly to a strong midgame then by risking it all early game trying to get fed, so is very reliable. her W is a bit meh, but with 4 damaging abilities you cant be picky. now AP itemisation is better, and MR itemisation is.... slightly worse. her only real struggle is league of tanks but i've seen her ult alone top 1k damage. sure she dosent really ever take control of a game in the same way a fizz or katarina does, but if you play her slow and steady she gets results. or at least thats what i have found. shes got no real counter in the way some other mids do and is never bad for a comp.
Doomley (EUW)
: It's not because of e-sports. It's because the old type of champions don't work anymore. Riot can't make champions like yi or tryndamere because champions that are as linear as they are, have hard counters and riot doesn't want to have hard counters anymore because they don't want to make a champion completely irrelevant just because of the match up. You should go read more about it in one of the articles in the news section.
riot make plenty of "counterplay" champions. they are all just pure garbage and never see play. its the problem with them having multiple dev teams with differing ideals. team A makes overtuned, overpowered hypermeta champions like {{champion:254}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:238}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:268}} who do everything at once, and whos gameplay approach is "what can i do to deny the enemy success?" team b makes "counterplay champions" like {{champion:41}} {{champion:136}} {{champion:240}} {{champion:163}} who all have gimmicky abilities and only work to a comparable level when used flawlessly, and most of the time have clauses in thier kit where enemies can deny the use of them through specific actions. so what happens is the obivous collision. team A champs do what they want without any counter, and thier overblown kit either deletes team B before they can even try to do thier thing, or allmost passively denies them thier combo, or just outdamages/outstats it. or a combination of that. while GP is getting shut down constantly by anyone with a ranged AA easily denying him 50% of his non-ult damaging abilities, yasuo is 3-shotting the enemy tank whos armor hes ignoring while constantly dashing, AoEing a 100% chance crit knockup. while Aurelion sol has ALL his damage drop off to nothing by the tinyest interrupt, zed is dropping into complete untargetability, performing his combo in <1 second, and teleporting out of the fight knowing the ADC is allready dead. usually what happens is team B gives thier champs some stupidly high damage IF they perform the combo right. risk-reward right? but then when they relese the champ, they realise that one lucky use of the combo can completely throw a pro game, e.g. when new critplank was meta, because despite the enemy countering his barrels 99% of the time, the 1% of the time it worked it was a free ace, and a won game. so riots "esports>balance" mentality nerfed GP into the dust. better to have a reliably overpowered assassin then an erraticly garbage champ who undermines the deservedness of an esports win. so yea. they make plenty of "counterplay" champions. they just never let them be viable. even when people find ways to make these champs viable through jank means like AP trynd, or even just yi when he had decent itemisation. they arent flashy to play like team A champs. so they get re-killed or thier core items get gutted.
: whats so hard about having ''get out of jail'' escapes that work almost like a flash. if anything i think that makes it even easier to make mistakes with and overextend.
whats hard about it is game balance. just like how e-sports has devolved LoL into league-of-wombos. mobility creep is another stepping stone leading towards the game becoming bland and samey. long ago riot nerfed AoE ccs across the board because it was too easy to just fill your entire team with them. now its happening again. every team-member seems to have not only CC regardless of role, but also mobility. sure it makes the e-sports shows flashier, but at the ground level its just more and more "noob champs" who can make mistakes for days, but never get punished because one button press puts them back at tower, unless you are playing someone equally power-creeped. it makes it harder to play any champion that isnt meta. it kills game diversity in the name of screaming commentators and wombo combos. it makes the game harder to enjoy.
: But why make me climb again? What do I learn from it? What good does it do to me? Nothing. First it's lady luck with placement matches. Do you get trolls or do you get normal teams. Then you get thrown into the bottom of the pile and yeah, now you have to "prove" again that youre silver. I could spend all that time climbing back from the bronze flamerhell in playing against real competition which is S5-2 to me. I gain nothing from the climb. Just wastin my time to get back where I left. So useless. So pointless. Just "hey we do things like this here, no real reason".
not that its any use to you now, but doing your provisionals asap is allways a bad idea. better to spend the time getting practice in. if you do provisionals now, when everyones MMR is reset, teams are unpredictable and the game has no idea whos mmr is accurate. so for 10 games, even though you won..... actually you dont mention ur W/L . but lets assume 50/50. the game then reads "well he won 5, but im not sure about thier MMR, so....lets not take this too seriously" and then "oh he lost 5, and i have no idea how bad his opponents were so ill assume low-average". ur losses count for more since thier MMR wont offset them, and your wins count for less. next time wait till after the rush. everyones MMR is solid, duo/flex with someone with gold-silver MMR. if you get a good W/L the game puts you high silver or gold. its how my friend cheezed gold in 10 games last season. did his promos with me while i was s1, his mmr was really clean since he skipped like 3 seasons. got 7/10 and got put gold 4.
: i need a tie breaker?? am i a homophobe?
for something like a one-night stand or w/e, its simply not feasible. people make the assumption of which gender the person they are approaching is, based on mostly obvious physiological clues, that in the case of trans people are chemically/surgically changed. beyond that a lot of people dont really dig deep enough into the personality of the person for something like transxuality to come up. but as for starting a relationship? its definitely something that should be brought up when dating, before sleeping with someone ideally. if you are having sober, personal conversations to assess the viability of a relationship then it works both ways. a trans person should know right off whether or not the person they are seeing is accepting of trans people because if they arent its a waste of both peoples time and the longer its left the worse its going to be. its also important regarding future plans. as far as im aware trans people cant have kids via the conventional method and M-F trans cant bear children. this can mean more to some people then simply what you were born as if their vision of thier future definitely has biological kids in it. not saying science dosent have/ wont soon get ways around that but they are hella expensive. really its the same as anything that people know could cause issue in a relationship. as mature adults its thier responsiblilty to not take this information lightly and assume the other person (who is placing a considerable amount of trust in the first person) will be or act a certain way and therefore withold information just because they might not like the way its recieved. im aware theres the "the past is the past" argument but would you like someone concealing the fact they had kids from a previous marriage? or have a lot of debt? or other issues that as a partner you would be impacted by? not to compare these things to being trans in any other way then that people can react negatively to them and it could be a deal-breaker. finally theres the issue with suicide rates among trans people. regardless of where you stand on the argument that its a form of mental illness, it is a measurable fact that trans people for a variety of reasons have an alarmingly high suicide rate. A partner may be in a position where that risk isnt good for them or thier partner. maybe they arent able to provide the support neccesary for a trans person. with something as complex as being trans clarity is important. it might be harder initially, and undoubtedly requires a lot of bravery from the trans person but if they have the (metaphorical) stones to begin transition this shouldnt be much harder, and its worth the effort. its like warding river. you dont need to do it pre-3 mins, and people dont seem to want to do it, but it NEEDS doing promptly or trouble will most likely come of it.
Najns (EUW)
: Why does everyone have SKT T1 so much?
as pointless as it is to throw this out there. this is kinda the problem with e-sports in general. its a game. sure its a competitive game... but at the end of the day thats what it is. a game. *que everyone getting hypermad*. i dont mean it in a diminishing sort of way, but in a realistic grounding of objectives sort of way. not like "its only a game who cares" but instead, "its a game and we have lost sight of that". everything about LoL has gotten worse since it became an e-sport. the community is worse, the balance is worse, each season seems to be continually worse. its finally getting to the point where riot have sacrificed so much to force this game into being an e-sport that even worlds suffers for it. once you kill off all the variance and ingenuity and depth so there is no chance of winning tournaments with off-the-wall strats, or even playing to different team strengths. this is why SKT dominates without challenge. because in previous seasons you could focus on different strats like splitpush, poke, pick comps if you werent as good at generic wombo. but rito didnt just nerf these strats they KILLED them because they arent as exiting to watch for the 5 seconds a TF occurs in. so now there is only 1 way to play, and if you get and keep the best players you win. its less about ingenuity and innovation, and more about robotic efficiency and execution. further from Moba and closer to RTS, which the koreans have been dominating for years before the west even started recognising games as a way to make money. they pushed league closer to starcraft, and what do you expect when this happens other then a bland unvaried meta and losing to koreans. back when lol was a game and supposed to be about enjoying the game, not just winning it, you had enough variance that you never knew what was going to happen. now its just who does the same boring thing slightly better then everyone else. oh look its the same people as last time since nothing has changed.
vladz2k (EUNE)
: Problem is they put the extremely boring Ascension in the rotation like 3 or 4 times, whereas Nemesis Draft mode didn't even have a chance to be there.
at a guess they will have data for how much use each mode got. nemesis draft if i remember didnt see much use the first time it was released because people dont like being forced to play champs they dont like that are usually bad. maybe Ascention just gets good responses.
TaigaT (EUW)
: Ok, we make this clear once and for all
lol "normals are about trying your hardest, not having fun"... oooooohkay then. my bad i thought videogames were about having fun. if its just about seeing who is the tryhardest metasheep i may as well just stay at work. while people are beholden to each other to not do anything to ruin the game, at the same time its not ranked m8. if i wanna try alternate tactics to win instead of just picking brainless meta that cannot lose lane then ball up for teamfights, thats my decision and im allowed to do that. also WTF is with people not knowing what "tryharding" means. i see threads all the time that say "omg stop saying tryharding im playing to win theres no such thing". Tryharding isn't just "playing to win". its trying WAY too hard to the win, to the point where the game is no longer an entertaining challenge, its just one group of people being forced to interact with another group of really unpleasent tryhards that dont see that games are for enjoyment, and you dont gain anything from winning a normal if you dont have fun doing it. splitpushing when your enemy DCs because rito servers OP and they cant defend with less people is tryharding. trying to mock people in chat to tilt them is tryharding. people who only play meta champs, not because they enjoy them, but because they will do ANYTHING for a slight advantage, even if it takes the fun out of the game. the kind of team that (in normals) will use 3rd party websites to research the lowest ranked enemy, to camp them and try to tilt them. this is against the spirit of the game. if you enjoy a meta champ, play that sure. if you use teamwork to gank bad players, great job! by all means use the tools the game gives you to do your best and have fun. but underhanded tactics that sacrifice the fun of the game in the hope of cheesing a win you otherwise wouldnt be able to earn is disgraceful. it cheapens the experience of everyone involved.
: Ranked MMR SHOULD affect Normal MMR
if ranked MMR affects normal MMR then it follows that normal MMR would be affected by ranked MMR. otherwise what you are asking for is that the ONLY MMR is ranked MMR. if you are indeed asking for normal MMR to affect ranked MMR, then what you are really asking for is boosting. since anyone can que with anyone in normals, whats to stop people getting thier overall MMR boosted in normals, so they can have higher MMR in ranked? if the OTHER situation is true, and in order to avoid the above problem, you want ONLY ranked MMR to be counted, then how will people who dont play ranked EVER get out of "elo hell". what about people who only play ARAMs? should they constantly be matched with the worst of the worst just because they didnt grind to plat in ranked? think about thinks before you type. dont just hop on the forums immediately after getting stomped by the one guy with jank MMR you have seen
Overloard99 (EUNE)
: Man i had perfect Q lands i tried my best to protect him which i did. I died for him to make pentakill and still no congratulations for that. And by the way i feeded him, it was my responsibility to get him fed. So don't think it's easy as Blitzcrank to play.
landing the Q and dying before the ADC are not exeptional feats of skill. they are the bare minimum of what is expected of you as A) a blitzcrank and B) a tank. besides these 2 basic things which are expected of any blitzcrank player, how did you distinguish yourself enough to merit a pat on the back? let me ask you another question, what would cause YOU to complement someone? you can hardly expect to be complemented yourself if your requirements to complement others are higher then your own performance. to make this example simpler, what would a toplaner... say maybe someone like {{champion:86}} (also a simple champion) have to do for you to do more than simply say "gj" as anyone does to anyone who gets a kill. its not a question of THINKING its easy to play blitzcrank. its a matter of KNOWING. i played him extensively in previous seasons for just this reason. being able to do something so simple and easy as land a fat skillshot on an enemy that may not even see it coming, could allmost completely win a teamfight, or at least take an objective. the reward was massive and the effort was minimal. but in the same way, you wouldnt applaud someone for picking up free money off the ground would you? no! because its not something that required any effort, regardless of how good the reward is. they have earned the reward of successfully completing the action for the reward that it generated itself, but without any actual difficulty in the action they have not earned praise.
: Lucian has a passive that helps him last hit. Literally. orbwalking and positioning is way easier than with other adcs, since you have a low cooldown dash that can go through walls. weaving abilities and passive....okay, that's basically the same thing Lee Sin or Riven has, not that hard, just don't mash all buttons at once, you are not the AP carry. Avoiding getting murdered is mostly the support's job. Also, low cooldown dash. Properly harass means "wait for enemies to make mistakes so i can last hit with Q and hit them too" Lucian cannot make plays on his own, unless the enemy pays no attention at all. He needs the support to make a disruption first. Checklist to play Blitzcrank: -land your super expensive, long cooldown skillshot. If you do, you won the lane. -build AP when you are ahead. Make the enemy be afraid, you have almost the same burst as annie support. -place wards occasionally so you can surprise the enemy with a out-of-sight super expensive, long cooldown skillshot that wins you the lane if landed. Chances are, Blitz is actually way more difficult than Lucian TBH
all your points are largely erroneous, or simply agree with me. the only point where you clearly state a conflicting viewpoint is where you show support for the AP blitzcrank build. downplaying the percieved difficulty of an action (only on a certain character mind you, as lucien is the easiest ADC hence why hes pick-or-ban) does not refute the existance of it. my point isnt that orb-walking or last-hitting or properly timing luciens abilities is neccesarily difficult. my point is that, as a blitzcrank, your champion is so simple and binary that you dont even have to do these few things. your entire character boils down to "try and land hook, if successful E-R, if not waddle away and wait for cooldown". thats literally it. my point still stands, nomatter how easy you claim lucien to be, blitzcrank is easier as all you have to do to make him work is be able to land a skillshot. literally the base requirement for allmost any character in the game. ground 0 for the basics, and blitz barely gets any harder then that. and people expect praise for this? gj m8 you did what was expected of you and nothing more! since there is nothing more a blitz can do other then land the hook. is this occasionally hard? yea sure. sometimes people try and dodge, sometimes people have dashes. but thats largely just educated guessing and a bit of luck. if you miss it no big deal, just try again later. missing a Q by itself contributes nothing to your teams defecit. you hit nothing, and there are no consequences. miss a CS and you are permanantly behind by that amount of gold. you even state yourself "land the Q win the lane". if only every champion were that easy. the mana cost and cooldown do not contribute to the difficulty of the champion, they are there because something needs to exist to partially counterbalance the MASSIVE reward of landing that skillshot compared to the relatively nonexistant risk of what happens when you miss. are you honestly trying to convince anyone that "land a Q" is harder then ANY adc? the only reason blitz isnt meta is because he is such a simple braindead champion. he contributes only 1 thing to a team, and often that isnt enough, regardless of how good the blitz player is. yet another example of where the skill of a support is largely unneccesary. this is why people dont often acknowledge supports. because unless you are so bad as to be actively feeding, the difference in skill dosent do anything to the gameplay until you reach much, MUCH higher levels, to the point where statistically it is impossible for all the people complaining they dont get enough recognition to be that good. there is a huge middleground of support players who are indestinguishable from one another, since there is so little room for improvement. once you can land the 1-2 skillshots the support has, and know to occasionally auto the enemy while hes busy for free gold, thats basically the soft-cap for support skill.
: So, i started to play support more. And now, i know this.
this is largely due to supports being WAY more middle-of-the-road then other roles. since they dont have to CS, thier kit largely boils down to "land the 1 skillshot in your kit that CCs them while you press the rest of your buttons". dont have to farm, dont have to worry about trades since everyone just hits your carry anyway so thats his/her problem, dont get focused in teamfights. pretty much just boils down to "place wards" and "be ok at landing skillshots". pretty much the same as an APC only without farming and less roaming. AP support? land skillshots, dodge skillshots. Tank support, land your 1 skillshot and combo the rest of your kit in a set order everyone knows and can do. Healer? lol heal and dont get hooked, infrequently land AoEs. supports never get judged on how well the farm, how they perform when focused (since they never are, or if they are tanks its what they want), thier ability to splitpush, roam, sneak autos in while farming ect. thats why people dont praise them as much, they are generally doing less overall then most other roles. got my first S+ today on support because its just massively easier to do on supp. its literally just "watch your team get kills, drop like 10+ wards over a 40 min game". without having to farm i was free to just harass constantly, since its literally a catch 22 to trade harass with a support if the ADC isnt a moron. you either harass back, and get pwned by the enemy ADC for poor focus, or dont and take free damage. exactly like midlane only you dont care about farm and typically have twice the CC. sure i actually did play well that game. but guess what? for playing exactly like i would any other role in the game (roam, harass, proper map positioning, using cooldowns to win fights) people treated me like some sort of amazing player. the yasuo was praising me all game just for maybe ulting him twice and throwing out shields. and lulu is one of the more complicated supports, exept she just plays like a really safe TF who dosent have to farm. supports spent so many seasons crying that thier job wasnt rewarding enough, so riot literally went "right well everyone gets free wards now you can just tell people its not your fault when vision is garbage". and every support released has minimum 2 CCs, one of which is a massive AoE, some gimmick ability that would be broken on anyone else, and something brainless they can do if nothing else works. the power creep on supports is absolutely insane, and you wonder why people dont sing your praises every game for essentially just picking a CCbot, and pushing 4 buttons.
Overloard99 (EUNE)
: Bah i play Blitzcrank, Lucian get penta because of me. Everyone loud ''GJ lucian, nice outplays'' and no words for me. #FeelsBadMan
checklist to play lucien well : 1) good CS 2) good orbwalking 3) good positioning 4) weaving abilities and passive 5) avoiding the 3-5 people actively trying to murder you first over everyone else 6) properly harass in lane, accounting for minion aggro and positioning checklist to play blitzcrank well: 1) land your Q, then rofl over your other keys. 2) dont build AP. 4) place wards occasionally. see the difference?
Rompanruoja (EUNE)
: So is Dynamic now supposed to represent your individual performance or your ability to climb as team
gonna give you the same answer you would have got under riots "perfect" old system when you got matched with a 2-man premade with a hugely different ranking. cz if anyone bothers to actually remember before dnaq, thats what the boards were filled with back then as well under OLD soloq. "waaaaah i lost to a premade not my fault premades OP give us TRUE soloq i dont have any friends to play with". or conversely "omg premades allways throw impossible to carry matchmaking broken" people said it then and ill say it now. if you are gonna lolking thier team just to cry about thier highest player, take the 2 seconds it takes to find thier LOWEST player. get fed off that person, win the game. thats all they are doing with you. putting you on an easy tilt so its basically 4v5 since you spend the entire game making excuses and tilting.
: Ranked feels wrong to play currently
season 1-5. go soloq, get matched against better people regularly (because you are trying to CLIMB) "eh thats just matchmaking at its finest, everyone has to deal with it, just gotta get good and carry, win 50% of my games and you climb steadily" season 2016, same thing happens, premades of equal sizes on both sides "OMG RITO WHAT IS THIS TRASH MATCHMAKING GAME IS UNPLAYABLE HOW I AGAINST PEOPLE ABOVE ME NOT FAIR REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-!" grow up. adapt and get good or leave. maybe the ranked will improve if everyone who hasnt bothered trying to adapt to the new season just stopped complaining and left. guaranteed que times would improve since these arent the type of people to support. more than likely midlane assassin mains mad they cant yolocarry off 3 kills on the assassin-of-the-week meta.
Teahyun (EUW)
: uhm its not that streamers say it but there are vods and screenshots many many times that prove this, unlike riot who doesnt show statistics but only "says". plus At the last Video of DynamicQ roundtable discussion, riot admitted of this happening too, because in their words "we fcked that up". watch the video
what streamers/vids are you watching? because depending on the Elo depends on how accurate the matchmaking is. the high-90s% riot quote is going to be largely padded out by bronze 5s teams looking to use premading to climb. the lower you go, the more premades you get, and since more people occupy the lower ranks, it skews the statistics. with streamers however, its the reverse. from high plat upwards, there are less and less people (plat+ is like 10% of the playerbase... or was at one point, might be more now but not by much) so its trying to find large premades with only a tiny amount of people to pick from (compared to bronze) hence longer que times and differently stacked premades. however you do get "premade tax" like you used to. if they have a bigger premade, your solo players are on average better then thier average player i.e. if they have a 5-man premade with an average of gold 3, your solos will be gold 1-2. so realistically they are BOTH right, but BOTH using skewed statistics. the streamers are using statistics from an outlier group, with a low sample size, which is just bad science. riot are generalising an entire population, ignoring a noticable trend relating to rank, which is also bad science. riots science is less bad however, because what they are saying is technically true, wheras what the streamers say is only true in a very niche set of circumstances. hence why riot are trying to come up with ways to change how you que at higher ranks to fix this problem, because at gold and below. its not really a problem. its just confirmation bias on the part of the players.
: You make some good points and it's very constructive feedback. > is he a midlaner? cz he kinda seems like a bit of a middle ground between teemo and malz. or maybe yorrik with a blind. I figured he could go mid, top or support. > so im assuming his combo pattern is get minions -> land the snare -> sacrifice a minion to drop AoE on snared target -> blind for damage. Sort of, except I didn't think of his Q as a damage dealing ability. But after this you say you would think it'd work if the Q dealt damage so you can build your passive minions with it. I think that's a great idea. What if his Q dealt damage to minions, blinds enemy champions and heals allies? How does that sound? > seems kind of... yorrik-ish, in that hes not really got a wombo combo, more just really annoying laning. without some element of burst he seems more like an AP toplaner. I think he would deal more damage over time with his minion army and his E. Basically what was intended to happen with Azir, that he would lack burst but be very deadly over time. > how do you intend for your champion to function in a jungle fight? if there isnt the required 4-6 waves of farming before each fight for him to get his army, seems like he wont do the damage he needs. I think you make a good point on the passive chance. I think it should either give him a minion when he kills one using his Q or otherwise it would make sense to increase the chance. I think if you tweak it like this you'd make him a bit more viable in a jungle fight. > id maybe up the chance of getting a minion per last-hit, OR keep it the same, and let your Q auto-ressurect one, like a nasus Q. that way you can sacrifice some poke potential to build up an army. Very good idea! > i would perhaps invert the R. the R seems like a nasus/renek/aatrox ult. aka a bruiser ult where you pop it just before you wade in. this guy seems like his unique thing is his minions, and you wanna focus on that. if you are set on sacrificing them, maybe sacrifice all your minions to make one super minion? some sort of frankenstein's minion. just an idea. Another good point, if the theme is set around your own minion army, it'd make sense to do something with that. I like your idea but it seems like it'd make for another Tibbers. It would be quite cool to see his super minion against Tibbers. Kinda like King Kong v Godzilla. > from a design perspective how would you make your W stand out from morgana's Q-W. because it seems like its just both those abilities on one ability. land root, drop aoe. I like that you pointed this out because I actually based it around that. Except it's not entirely the same. The AoE is a donut, rather than a full circle. With the rooted enemy in the middle. The AoE will remain for two seconds after the root ends meaning the target is safe inside the donut but if it wants to prevent further damage it has to wait for 2 seconds to avoid walking over the AoE. Thank you so much for your feedback! :)
thanks for clearing up those points, especially with the W. I'm glad you find my post constructive :) . i really like the W now that i better understand it, because it gives your opponent meaningful choices to make, and that is allways good for balanced gameplay. in regards to the R. if you dont like how similar the idea is to tibbers, my advice is to look at how it would function in a teamfight, and tweak it. people remember the feel of an ability more than its graphic, like how sejuani ult and amumu ult do the same thing, but the play around them is different. to follow on from your minions-and-aoe theme, what do you think about your minion spawning where the minions were sacrificed, and it having some sort of AoE-cloud that slows, maybe damages. like a reverse-sivir ult or moving gangplank ult. its less of an AoE-wombo combo stun, and more something you have to set up for great reward, by properly positioning the minions pre-sacrifice. even reading that now however, it still seems tibbers-y. perhaps another approach. maybe just hulk out the minions you have? or make them ALL aoe poison? returning to your self-buff original idea... maybe try that, but to keep the minion theme going, have him spawn champ-sized generic zombies on each champion kill while ulted? so his teamfight play pattern is make minions-> AoE damage in teamfight -> ult -> go for executes with Q and W -> use super-zombie army to snowball teamfight and push towers? as i imagine them they look a bit like zombie brand with less fire, so they arent specific to who you kill (thats mordes territory) but you could theoretically get up to 5. like a mid-point between small minions and tibbers. maybe have them AoE all the time, so with Rylais you have some real sticking power. meh, anyhow they are just some random thoughts. Its your champ concept buddy so go with whatever you think fits the champ best. one thing i think still needs sorting out is the Q. you cant really have it do too many different things. blind, damage, AND heal depending on target is iffy. but i think something like this would be better sorted out by giving him/her some lore, so that we know what kind of thematic feel the champ has and can give them abilities to fit around that. personally i wouldnt like to see the champ playable as support, A) because it needs last-hits and B) because minions that just chase you in lane are super annoying, and would be even more so in botlane where farming is hard enough as it is with 2 people's harass to avoid. with how the kit currently works, a heal might make him impossible to force out of lane. if you are dead-set on having a heal, i would maybe move it to somewhere other than the Q, since it allready has 2 possible uses. plus making it ally-targetable just leaves the champ open to more mis-clicks in teamfights, where you mean to heal an ally but an enemy just leaps on top of them, or vice-versa. as an simpler heal mechanic, maybe have the Q heal the lowest nearby ally when you last hit with it? but even that seems overloaded. if you like the ult-zombies from the earlier suggestion, mabe make them heal allies when they deal damage... like a lifedrain? but only a little because that can easily become OP. or make the AoE cloud on the E less of a poison cloud, more of a life-steal aura, and you gain a % of the damage it deals (maybe only to champs, maybe to anything) so that there is potential counterplay to your healing, but it can scale up greatly in teamfights. again. just throwing out whatever (hopefully) helpful idea pops into my head. its a great champion concept. most important part to helping finish off the idea is probably lore tho. not neccesarily a name, just a theme.{{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: Champion Concept: [Insert hipster name here] - [Insert whatever title]
is he a midlaner? cz he kinda seems like a bit of a middle ground between teemo and malz. or maybe yorrik with a blind. so im assuming his combo pattern is get minions -> land the snare -> sacrifice a minion to drop AoE on snared target -> blind for damage. seems kind of... yorrik-ish, in that hes not really got a wombo combo, more just really annoying laning. without some element of burst he seems more like an AP toplaner. as for the minions, are they just normal minions? cz if so they would be pretty weak to anyone with waveclear, especially considering how hard they are to get. 10% chance? so in a wave you get 1. so you need 4 waves to cap them, but they die just as fast as normal minions? if dinger turrets were 1 every 4 waves he would be unplayable, just saying. how do you intend for your champion to function in a jungle fight? if there isnt the required 4-6 waves of farming before each fight for him to get his army, seems like he wont do the damage he needs. id maybe up the chance of getting a minion per last-hit, OR keep it the same, and let your Q auto-ressurect one, like a nasus Q. that way you can sacrifice some poke potential to build up an army. i would perhaps invert the R. the R seems like a nasus/renek/aatrox ult. aka a bruiser ult where you pop it just before you wade in. this guy seems like his unique thing is his minions, and you wanna focus on that. if you are set on sacrificing them, maybe sacrifice all your minions to make one super minion? some sort of frankenstein's minion. just an idea. from a design perspective how would you make your W stand out from morgana's Q-W. because it seems like its just both those abilities on one ability. land root, drop aoe.
GoWild (EUNE)
: This made me a bit confused. Why do you assume that Annie, Ahri and Zed have that kind of lore just to attract younger audience? For example I like Ahri solely because she is the easeiest assassin you can currently play with. Amongst my teen friends the most popular lore themes are evolution-obssesed champs ( Wukong, Syndra ) or power infusing champs ( Azir, Aurelion Sol, Jhin etc). Even my "most emo" friend is just a Riven main ( because he is emo only in apparence, he's just a douche ). These themes are popular because we are trying to control our newly found emotions and to make our way to adulthood more easly. So no, we are not special snowflakes who like to cut their wrists and play zed all day everyday . Maybe there are some who do so, but they are hard to find. Sincirely, a full time teenager ( as usual sorry for my english I hope you understood what I trying to say ).
i get what you are saying. but im looking at it from a marketing perspective. annie falls under the "old character" bit i mention. in that shes really simple from a time when simple characters were good because the game was new, and she stayed the same because 100-0 ing someone in a stun is strong enough to survive power creep as long as you tune the numbers. zed and ahri were mainly the champs i could think of that just... dont really have any excuse to be in LoL under the old lore. ofc now riot are removing all lore regarding summoners rift to allow them to make simpler champs lore-wise, but thats besides the point. "generic fox-woman anime bewb lady" and "generic shadow ninja" are an easily baited teen demographic, and its the strongest plausible reason for thier existance, falling under this category is also yasuo. this isnt to say that its the ONLY reason people play them, or that the ONLY people that play them are teens, however its a solid reasoning why such bland characters got greenlighted for production. they are easy game sales. this correlates with the fact that they never fall below "strong". they vary between "meta" and "strong" and very rarely drop below that. keeping champs that draw in easy demographics strong is easy money, and one of the easiest demographics is edgy teens that watch anime. giving them super-safe mechanics and tonnes of damage helps them appeal to the rest of the populace, and once you make a character that appeals to both the niche groups AND the main playerbase you release a bunch of skins for them for easy money. why is this a teen demographic you ask? well a whole bunch of reasons that generaly revolve around how fringe stuff such as cliques and "styles" tend to fade out when life becomes less about what your peers think about you and more about getting a job you dont completely hate and starting to save money for stuff :( . not saying this is all teens. in fact its a fairly niche demographic. but its one thats easily appealed to, and one that tends to have a lot of thier parents money to spend, which is why you see these generic characters everywhere. its a safe bet. keeping this point on-topic, i tend to discourage such teen-bait characters as they are only really neccesary in a game as a source of income. once you have your allotted number of them, you can focus on deeper, more unique, interesting characters to make a game stand out. same goes for OC characters. i know our community can make great character concepts, and will point out the bland ones in the hopes of inspiring people to think outside the box! i know its hard to come up with new stuff, but i have faith!
Gajoob (EUW)
: ***
wow lol was just about to go full bore on this concept and you beat me to it by 7 hours... guess thats what i get for sleeping. i'll try to add what constructive criticism i can: Firstly, the concept. "shadowy edgelord who gained ultimate power by murdering someone, so now hes cursed for all eternity to have his limitless power contained only by a curse from his victim". sound familiar? thats because its been done to death. Its cliché, its overly edgy, its the kind of teenage angst-fuel that causes people to play only reaper in overwatch "because hes just like me". please no. zed is enough. we dont need any more emo teen bait, the playerbase is allready toxic enough. also, how is this character different enough from zed to justify his own existance? the only difference in backstory is zed killed someone after he got shadow powers. both do stupid amounts of damage, have multiple shadow teleports, and a huge level 6 power spike that just ups thier teleporting and boosts thier raw damage. hes pretty much just what would happen if zed and yasuo had a child, and it gained ranged autoattacks. how is this constructive you ask? well i'd like to think by pointing out the conceptual flaws it gives people the perspective to go back and make a deeper character. that said i really dislike the "you dont understand my inner darkness" sasuke clones, so its probably not gonna seem that constructive. what can i say? try making characters more.... real. people who actually think about thier inner darkness or curses or killing 100% of the time.... are generally in prison or on suicide watch. real functional people have likes, interests, goals, hobbies, challenges. thats what makes people like them and root for them. ryze is trying to protect a magic scroll, blitzcrank is trying to fit in as a robot, viktor wants to remake the world into robots. ok some of the more cliche characters in league can be pretty 2-d annie. zed. ahri. but they are either old or characters that reel in the teenage audience, and thier slots are allready filled. from a gameplay point of view: so you are trying to make an adc? what motivates your character to become an ADC? not lore-wise, gameplay-wise. why would a player go "the place for you is botlane". just having ranged autoattacks is not enough. with his COMPLETE MAGIC IMMUNITY, this guy is a midlaner. long-range burst, mobility, low mana costs, good waveclear, but mostly just the E that makes every mage in the game completely unable to damage him. assuming the 80 base shield and level 1, and the 80 AD from base+masteries+runes+dorans, its a 140dmg shield. thats 3 autoattacks from the enemy APC. thats about 4 seconds of attacking. the shield only lasts 3. and thier autoattacks dont go up by much. wheras getting IE first, makes your shield pretty much permanently unbreakable. i would go mid with this guy, level QWE. soft-push to ensure i am 3 before them, then just max E and engage every time the cooldown is up for free trades that they cannot respond to. its like pre-nerf leblanc. you go in, drop damage, use the final blink to back off (2 in 1 out) having autod 3 times with 2-3 Qs and they cant do a thing about it. again. part of this comes from his kit being a blend of zed and yasuo, just with more range. typical ADC patterns are weak early moderate to good mid and amazing late. low overall utility and low mobility, or mobility at a cost. or be lucian with mobility with no cost. you generally want to have some way to encourage the buying of attack speed and crit. having your Q cooldown scale with AS is one thing. but how does that make him different to yasuo? since it procs on-hit, why not just do what yasuo does, get shiv, then go full ad and assassinate people? ADCs are generally weak vs mage poke as well. its part of why they need supports, and why mage supports are still viable when competing with tanks. rather than CDR from AS, carries usually are rewarded with damage from AS. they either allready have some AS boost on thier kit, or thier scalings are so poor that the only viable build is ADC to let your items provide your damage. if your character could feasibly kill someone using mainly Qs, hes not an ADC, hes an AD caster. also, having all that power in his abilities at the cost of weak autoattacks prevents him from filling a vital ADC role, the pusher. if hes killing towers at 80% speed, the team is winning the game at 80% speed. so they will more than likely relocate you to a lane where your kit is better suited. aka mid, or if we follow yasuos pattern, top. especially to counter ekko or maokai.
Loonsta (EUW)
: Tip on how not to flame?
a nice mid-point i use is "keep it constructive". its very difficult to just suddenly become a completely different person, which is essentially what "just dont flame" is. i dont handle the frustration of incompetant teammates well. so when someone in (usually bot) lane is starting to feed im not going to just sit there and watch it happen, im going to try and influence them in some way to change thier "we are 0/4 surely the NEXT all-in tower dive will work" plan. but "stop feed ffs" just tilts people and gets you banned. stuff like "can you try and play defensive, you dont win fights with them" or "try focusing on farming, X lane is ahead we just need to let them carry". ofc theres not allways the time to do this and people aren't allways willing to listen. often it would take too long to explain to the jungler why him taking the kill is bad for the team, especially if he then taxes a whole wave, and more often then not "stfu" is the response you get. but its a reasonable mid-point, and its a way to maybe influence the game positively so maybe you dont have to listen to "an ally has been slain" every 2 mins.
: when you are typing press esc instead of enter. typing all that stuff you hate calms u a bit. but the thing is to delete it after y typed it
pres esc instead of enter. type "bot can you ple-" burns flash right in front of the enemy laner. yea thats right i have flash bound to E. deal with it.
warwiller (EUNE)
: Play creative champions
its not so much to do with thier theme as it is to do with thier champ style. all these champs have niches that really arent competitive. morde was ALLWAYS going to be garbage as soon as riot announced he was supposed to replace the team's ADC. he was put in a binary position. either hes good enough to play, and completely destabilises the meta by replacing the ADC. or theres no point taking him as its better to have an ADC. hes not mobile, hes not tanky after the nerfs to his shield. hes just super easy to punish and with mobility meta making all teamfights cover half the map he just cant put his damage down. Aatrox is a non-hypercarry melee-autoattacker. so... jax with less damage, ww with no supress, yi with no speed. he relies on being able to stand in melee range for long periods of time for a sustain battle. which just isnt good in the lanes he was meant for. he is a playable jungler thanks to all the new on-hit stuff, but there are many others who do his job better, like jax, xin, shyvana, udyr. his entire worth is built around the numbers he has if hes stood still autoing someone to death, and they arent good numbers, and he isnt able to reliably get them. Urgot.... well hes another yorick. bruiser with lots of unpunishable ranged harass. so they cant let him have good numbers or he dominates lane to easily, and they cant make him too tanky or he becomes even harder to trade with. so he cant be allowed good damage OR tankyness. so you end up building tanky and doing 0 damage, or building damage and dying instantly. or building hybrid, doing no damage, and dying really fast. because of how cancer this champ approach is riot intentionally keep his numbers bad until the rework. twitch and kogmaw are an old champ idea. no mobility hypercarries. able to melt teams, but not able to run away. so every time riot release a new assassin or bruiser or jungler with dashes and CC (basically all of them) they get weaker comparatively. without a way to peel themselves they are easy to shut down and reliant on other team members to function. most people arent comfortable playing champs that only work if your team is good, because the idea is to carry, not go into a game hoping to get carried. kogmaw is the only exeption to this in that his numbers are so insane its worth playing him. i often say he loses lane, then wins game. games go on long enough that if he is careful he can farm the 3 items (rageblade, BoTRK, hurricane) needed to carry the game if he is even slightly protected. people are more willing to protect the kogmaw after "protect the kog" teams got played at pro level, seeing as lol players only learn nowadays by sheeping LCS.
OzX (EUW)
: Mobility is "paid for" one way or the other you just don't see it. And yes of course mobility is a good thing because It makes the game faster and more exciting to play and watch. Which is also why some champs are being played even when on the weak side, because they are fun. What's the point in playing voli? Well he is op. Once he is nerfed his pickrate will plummet to around zero. Zed? He is op and fun. Once he gets nerfed his pick rate will remain rather high. Your change means that pretty much every mobile champion in the game will be straight up unplayable. Darius era wow so exciting to see not who plays best, but whoever picks the most "op" champ since all you can do now is hit each other until one of you die. Also 3 adc meta because guess what? No one can kill them now. Yep because champs that can get to them can't kill them and champs that can kill them can't reach them. Oooh what a fun game.
nice to see it only took you 3 replies to run out of any form of logical counterargument and dissolve into all the classic fallacies. makes it real easy to see how paper-thin your position is. i have a point to make? i back it up with examples that people who were playing the game long enough to remember can vouch for. you? literally just fallacies and opinions. "mobility is fun" thats an OPINION. not a fact. literally worthless in trying to convince anyone of anything. may as well tell me that zed is a better champ because you prefer his colour scheme. weak but mobile champs get played because they are "fun"? pretty sure you mean they are played because they are FORGIVING. people tend to confuse that with fun, since they spend less of the game realising how many mistakes they actually made, since mobility champs tend to just have "no worries about that awful play bud, i moved you under tower where its safe" buttons. who cares if your farm and positioning are trash if you can just run away right? if mobility is "paid for" and its just that i cannot see it, how is it that you cannot provide any examples? surely if it IS payed for, then its an obvservable trait, leaving obvservable evidence that you could show everyone here makes an observable pattern? In fact as the person making that assumption its on you to prove that it is. yet you give me nothing exept some false logic. the premise that your idea is fine, the problem is with everyone else who just somehow cant see it. there are entire Aesop fables about how poor this line of reasoning is. as for making mobile characters actually sacrifice things for thier mobility, somehow making the game unplayable? i take it you are new to this game, or at least werent here before season 5, where mobility was extremely limited and often conditional. where it was such a carefully monitored commodity, that kassadin was permaban for life, just for having high mobility, and people understanding how OP that is, in fact how hard to balance that is is why his rework was hugely nerfed, but STILL op, then got nerfed so hard he became unplayable so they didnt have to put the work in fine-tuning him. do you honestly think the meta was 3 adcs before zed was a thing? ezreal is an ancient champion and there was never a 3 adc meta. there examples of OLDER champions who had mobility at a price. its been PROVEN to work. the problem is the new meta of new champions who DONT pay anything for it. brainless hurr-durr assassins with exellant farm, no weak points in the game, offensive AND defensive mobility, waveclear and ways to assasinate tanks, instead of the older more balanced assassins who had great burst and offensive mobility, but poor waveclear, sub-par scaling and no E-Z escape button. they could easily win lane if not outplayed, but then had to win the game before they fell off using map awareness and proper objective knowledge. now its just "if you arent winning as zed, farm till you are, eventually you 1-shot anyone with less then 4k hp and 75% resistance. maybe if new champs didnt baby players so much the average player would know how to handle the basics like people did in season 2. where the counter to splitpush wasnt "wait for riot to nerf it" and the counter to being behind mid-game wasnt "surrender, report everyone, try again". but then again im trying to explain things to someone who thinks adcs were somehow unkillable before everyone got 2 dashes per champ and 1:1 scaling on assassin ranged farm abilities. {{champion:111}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:77}} you even know who any of these champs are m8? all examples of OLDER champs who actually payed for the mobility (or in nauts case CC) they got, and the game enjoyed some exellant balance, and they were perfect anti-carries. if you had been playing the game as long as i have you would (hopefully) realise that it wasnt until riot switched priorities from "how to make a balanced and fun game" to "how to sell more LCS tickets" that this horrendous power creep came in, and all the balancing became insane. in fact even riot know that this mobility creep with no downsides is a problem. why do you think they had to rework juggernauts, dashless ADCs AND low-mobility mages?! because everything they had, new champs had PLUS mobility, for nothing. older champs were considered straight-up inferior. because thier damage was the same, but they coudlnt catch OR escape new champs, thanks to brainless mobility. you act like mobility is just this thing that only works if you are good, and it lets you "outplay" your opponent. in reality its a crutch that means your opponent has to outplay you twice as hard as you have to ouplay him, because you have to think about so much less that you basically play the game on easy mode. positioning, map awareness, ward placement, towers.... all of this stops being a factor when you just dash in response to any issue. so tell me how this makes the game somehow more fun? when huge parts of it become irrelevant all in favor of one huge screaming wombo combo teamfight thats over in 5 seconds, followed by 3 towers and an inhib going down.
OzX (EUW)
: I was just making an ironic statement but OK if you take it that way : your post is 100% dumb because you completely put aside other factors. Game is not just damage and mobility. For example a point and click hard cc is worth much more than a mobility spell in my opinion because a mobility spell gives you a chance to outplay the opponent, while a hard cc straight up prevents the enemy from playing.
by point and click do you mean targeted? because you might wanna go have a look at the roster of hard CC champs. barring annie and alistar? pretty much all of them are never seen in pro play. maybe kayle when some item changes make her damage insane but thats quickly nerfed out of her. in fact thats a pretty recurring factor with most of these champs. with annie being the one exeption, point-and-click CC champs dont get burst, dont get dashes (that arent 3-sec channels on an ultimate ability) and are either tanks, or thier CC is defensive like vayne or trist. the problem with point-and-click CC is that its not flashy. it isnt exiting to watch, dosent make announcers get all shouty. so its not part of what riot want for LCS. annie and alistar are the exeption, because thier flash-CC is part of a lot of wombo comps. but with the exeption of those? the rest are kept out of pro-play levels because riot dont want champs that arent flashy getting played at LCS. thats the difference between mobility and point-and-click CC. mobility generally isnt payed for. champs can have mobility AND burst AND CC, and all the other things in league like healing and utility. but point-and-click CC champs are usually built around that CC, and limited to that and one other thing. theres a high price to pay for getting point-and-click CC that mobility just dosent have.
OzX (EUW)
: Yeah I mean GP never saw proplay because he is so weak ! Oh wait, he was permaban. Meanwhile ekko is only good because of this deviant tank build. Plz rito release a game mode where armor / Mr / hp items are disabled. I wanna have fun again :(
maybe read the rest of my comment? the bit where i acknowledge that he saw pro play... and was NERFED out of it. this is the problematic paradigm with "team b" champiuons. because you cannot guarantee what you want to do will be allowed by the enemy team, seeing as your own kit provides them the means to stop you, the only time these champions are playable is when the payoff is so great that it is worth it not working most of the time. this was GPs problem. 80% of barrels got properly fixed, but the ONE barrel that didnt, won a teamfight instantly. like old nidalee spear. everyone in that bubble DROPPED. so you were playing a trash champ for 80% of the game, and then in the last 20%... you just won. however without that 20% chance to just WIN, there was no point to playing GP. you were just a trash champ 100% of the time, because your hard counterplay is.... ranged autos. ekko is good in a variety of builds. he can jungle, mid and top. but his toplane is the "meta" build, because it is the most forgiving. you dont NEED damage, your mobility keeps you on people for your sustain, and tank stats plus CC plus mobility allows you to fck up spectacularly, and still be ok.
Serika Zero (EUNE)
: Vayne needs to get in that 550 range to do ANYTHING WHAT SO EVER. Twich extends it with ult, Jhin extends it with ult and Q, MF extends it with QR and E (MF is my go to adc). Ezreal is an ADC(aster) he mostly pokes with his Q, again, he contributes to the fight outside his small AA range. Corki, poke again and package. Draven's CC is AoE, at almost double range of his auto attacks and his ultimate is global. Kalista has fate's call (which is very strong) and Vayne's tumble on 0.5 seconds cooldown at 2.0 as. Tristana also gets one of the biggest range in the game as time goes on. Lucian doesn't really count as low range. He is another ADC(aster) and his Q has like 1000 range. Vayne has low range because all she can do are auto attacks. And she needs to be in range for that. All ADCs you listed can make an impact in a fight outside 550 range.
with the exeption of MF, because of her ult, all the damage you list is mostly just measly poke damage or in the case of draven, extremely weak long-cooldown disruption. and MF's ult is an unusual case, because it carries with it a whole range of downsides, namely immobility, and increased importance on positioning. ADCs are, with the exeption of bluereal, Attack Damage Carries. not poke mages. thier longer range abilities are not thier primary damage source, and you can check most any death recap, and find that they too, were in that 550 range autoing you to death for at least 60% of the damage they did to you, unless they were just finishing you. so yea while they DO have ways to weaken you pre-fight, they end up 550 away from you just like vayne. difference is vayne doesnt rely on weakening you first, because within that 550 range (average ADC range) she is the most slippery ADC in game, tied with khalista. so yea, lucien may poke you for like... 100 damage more then a basic attack with his Q. and corki may do 200 damage with a big rocket. but they have to finish you with autos, and cannot tumble every 3 seconds, nor do they have a knockback, nor are they ignoring your defensive items thanks to thier extremely cheap attack speed build. trist was more in there as a joke. really tho counting dravens E as some sort of excuse as to why he is 550 but somehow better off then vayne. Draven has to juggle axes at 550 range with ONE peel ability on a huge cooldown, and it is a micro-knockup and does NO damage. dravens ult is a finisher and its damage is pathetic. i would not count jihns Q as it needs targets to bounce it, so cannot be relied upon in a teamfight. also jihn not only has to sit at 550 range with no dash whatsoever, hes got 4 bullets to kill a team of 5 people, after which hes reloading for 2 seconds. twitch is perhaps the true exeption to the range que, but then again this only applies after 6, and in teamfights. so while yes he does outrange vayne past 20 mins in a teamfight, in 1v1s he cannot escape vayne in any meaningful way, so he will be in 1v1 range of 550 anyway, and she outdamages him, and has better CC. needing to be in 550 range to do ANYTHING does not make her "low range". it makes her AVERAGE range, with no poke. myth debunked. the point i am making is that her tradeoffs for having "no poke" are too rewarding, and that people misinterpret "no poke" for "low range" which is misleading and incorrect. in the same way that you would not tell people Graves is a long-range adc, because of his ult range. you should not tell people vayne is low-range just because she is exclusively midrange, especially when you are trying to use this wrong information to justify her kit. saying "vayne is fine because she is low-range" is like me saying "we should nerf grave's autoattack range because he is a high-range adc but his damage is still insane".
: Can they put a hp cap on Steraks like warmogs?
at what point in an ADC's build are they supposedly building this (ive never seen this happen). like how fed are they that they can afford to buy a tank item, and still do carry damage? because if they are this fed then arguably they have won anyway, and rather then risk 1 more damage item so they can start 2-3 shotting people, have opted to safely 4-shot you on your 0/6 tank. steraks is actually one of my favourite items for bruisers. its not a lot of damage, its not a lot of HP, but its nicely in the middle if you are ahead. if you need 3 defensive items just to even SEE the benefit of this.... then its worthless. it becomes a pointless win-more item that you wont need if you are allready that ahead, and its too lategame to be useful if you are A) behind or B) trying to get ahead. if a carry is building this as a first or second item, punish them for having a huge dip in thier damage curve. annhilate the other carry first while they love-tap you, then turn on them.
: The thing is that mobility is part of the game design. And with this mage update, most champions have now access to more mobility. Don't underestimate power of {{item:3152}} & {{item:3285}}. Both can give a hugh mobility spike.
thats not neccesarily accurate though. if {{champion:69}} puts aside the 2500 gold to buy {{item:3152}} and then {{champion:245}} does the same, thier damage will be about equal, but ekko will have 4 dashes, to casseiopeias 1. that is why half the "reworked" mages riot did shot down in win rate to the bottom of the pile. riot argued that the OPTION to nerf thier damage to build a jank item to shore up a huge weakness made them playable. but forgot A) everyone can buy this item, so it dosent fix mobility differences and B) most "mage" champions only work on the assumption that they are going FULL AP, because they have poor base damage, poor mobility, poor sustain, but a slight bit of CC and good scaling. giving up thier only strength (good scaling) to change "poor mobility" to "slightly less poor" mobility, is bad. hence all the mediocre scaling mediocre CC mages that dont have mobility to compensate {{champion:50}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:112}} have dirt-poor win rates. meanwhile all the super CC mages, or mages with insane early/base damage {{champion:90}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:63}} have become very popular, but all ignore the mobility thing anyway, since they actually have the damage compensation that not having mobility should give you. the problem is that champs like leblanc, fizz, zed and ahri do the same damage, if not MORE than most "true" mages, and so dont instantly die in teamfights, but have just as much CC as mages, and they have mobility. they just dont sacrifice anything for this mobility and the problem lies in riots multiple design teams. it seems to be that you can group the designers into 2 categories, which im going to refer to as "team A" and "team B". Team A, when designing champs, thinks "what can this champion do to 'outplay' (read: be immune to) X game mechanic". its not about what thier opponents can do to them, its about what horrible things they can do to opponents, WHILE avoiding what thier opponent is doing. Team A makes champs like Zed, Ekko, Elise, Gnar, Vi.... champs that generally have passives in addition to actives, mobility, CC AND burst (and scaling). champs that never really become unplayable due to insane utility, and often see pro play. then you have... Team B. Team B's motto is "how can your opponent outplay you". the idea that something can be slightly above average, but at the COST of your opponent being able to interfere with it. Gangplank CAN do tonnes of barrel damage... if his opponent sits close to it, and dosent auto-attack it even though its super easy for carries to do it, AND dosent punish GP for Q-ing an E... using ALL his damaging abilities on one barrel that you just deleted while the parrley was in the air anyway since your AS is faster then parrley's animation. all these points where an opponent through a little effort can just collapse your plays to nothing. champs like jihn who can do tonnes of damage, but if they cant kill you in 4 hits you get 2 seconds of free damge while they reload, and they have NO dashes, and they gotta sit still while ulting, and they cant improve thier attack speed, and thier range is average... see where im going with this? most of these champs are fun for normals.... but dont see pro play unless thier numbers are absolutely INSANE if they manage to luckily combo off without someone combo-breaking it. and then they get nerfed because LCS dosent like games being thrown on one lucky barrel, because they would rather scream wombo at someone mashing zeds 36 hit combo that hes untargateable for most of. thats the main issue. champs that team A make usually allways beat champs that team B make, and when team B's champs ARE doing well.. they get nerfed, so how "good" a champ is isnt usually down to the meta, or pre-season patches, or balance patches, or riots particular aims for the game. its usually down to which team gets assigned to make/remake the champ.
Serika Zero (EUNE)
: the problem is that even though she can't miss an auto attack, her auto attack range is so small that you are inside your enemies skills range when you go in to auto attack. Most of those containing CC such as stun, knock-up, snare. Even pure damage is dangerous since vayne is so squishy As for E, utilizing it properly is very difficult, as it requires you to predict your target's movement pattern. Her W requires her to focus 1 target down for at least 3 auto attacks (or 2 aas and an E), while most other champions in the game got the freedom to change their point of focus at will. You can't miss your Q, but you can sure tumble in a wall and fuck up. And die. Miss use of your mobility skill is the bane of all champions with high mobility. tl;dr: I'm not saying Vayne is weak. I'm saying you require very good mechanical skills to use her properly. And that's not just some made up rumor out of nowhere.
i would contest this. theres a pretty big myth about her AA range. its 550. same as all these carries. {{champion:29}} {{champion:202}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:42}} {{champion:119}} {{champion:429}} and level 1 {{champion:18}} . so she does NOT have "low range". shes got average range. Luciens range is lower. so is kog maw's, sivir's and graves's. people often use this myth to try and excuse how rewarding she is for a supposedly large risk, but the risk mostly isnt there. what she dosent have is long range poke. but thats not equal to short range. anyone dies to CC. vayne is no exeption. CC is a moot point and cannot be used in a logical argument. its like saying "vayne is weak to having someone deal 100% of her HP" or "vayne is weak to standing on the enemy spawn point". as for her E. as any adc will tell you, its not about predicting anything as much as it is being aware of your own positioning. can you put yourself in such a position that they are likely to line up with a wall at some point? given that you have access to a 3-sec cooldown dash, free movespeed AND stealth, yes. yes they are. LoL is littered with walls. the problem with this argument is that people dont realise they are arguing about 2 different things. people who like/main vayne are looking at her skill ceiling and going "wow to be truly perfect with vayne is way more complicated then a lot of champs, therefore vayne is hard". looking at the absolute max level, and using that to form the basis of thier point. that isnt what people who argue that vayne is easy are looking at. in fact its not what MOST of the "x champ who people think is hard is actually just OP". threads are talking about, allthough in my experience it is ALL that people who think these champs are hard talk about. same with {{champion:157}} or {{champion:64}} (a few seasons ago when he was meta). people look at thier potential maximum. but that is NOT what gets used in a game. people are saying vayne is easy but what they MEAN is she is over-rewarding. at her lowest level of play, where you can just about work all her abilities, she is easier then other champions, and this continues up through the middle of her difficulty, where the majority of her players are. because her kit is full of utility, but sacrifices nothing for it. she is a TINY bit more mechanically complex then say... garen. she has one "directional" ability, and a bit of tumble-assisted orb walking. and for it she gets immunity to tankiness, insane mobility, hard CC on a hypercarry, stealth and some of the best midgame and lategame scaling in the game. shes not defensively counterbuildable, as any item you buy be it armor or health is made less gold efficient by her W, her old "weak early game" was removed with the creation of BoTRK and the rise of attack-speed related items and the nerf to early game carries, as well as the higher overall passive gold income. this is the problem people have with vayne. its not what shes like when you put the time in to master her. its how rewarding she is after you put in the bare minimum. a lot of other champions, played pretty well, will get crushed by a bad to mediocre vayne player, because she just outputs crazy numbers for nothing, and has simple answers to most champions that arent difficult to use.
GPot (EUW)
: Sort out supports!
2/10 troll thread for making me laugh and reply. lets have a look at how "hard" supports have it shall we? 1) gets the most empathy of any role in the game, just like junglers did seasons 1-3. blame the adc for everything you mess up, anyone calls you on lack of vision "rito gave everyone wards not just my job". 2) safest role. go 0/10? who cares your job is just to land your CC, which you get for hitting level 6, which is impossible not to do. 3) only role that requires 0 farming ability. any other lane with less then 70 farm/10 mins is failing, despite having every job supports have (warding, harass, objective control) and sometimes more (roaming). 4) most free stats. barring sions HP gain (arguably not free) and singed's HP, supports get more free stats. squishy ones get movespeed (stupidly strong stat) tanks get free MR, damage mitigation or both. allows for trash builds without punishment. 5) most utility. pretty closely tied to 2, but more evident whenever the meta shifts so that one of them can solo lane (lulu long ago, leo top now, jungle ali) they IMMEDIATELY become so broken they need nerfing because utility is the strongest immeasurable stat because it just makes everything you do easier with little to no downside. 6) power creep. barring the leap from talon - fizz - lb -zed/ekko that the assassin class saw, supports have the most power creep. every new support that dosent require actual skill due to unusual mechanics that arent just heal X thing, CC Y thing (bard) they immediately become permanently playable at any level, or are buffed until they are, or need nerfing because of thier power (see any tank support) 7) meta-shift immunity. following on from 6, but linking to 2. top/adc/jungle/mid ALL shift in and out of meta depending on thier numbers, usually HP and damage. get good with a champ? well better hope thier counters arent buffed, or they arent just nerfed, or banned. supports never see bans, can allmost never be countered exept briefly in lane and even then only partially. thier UTILITY is what makes them, and riot does not nerf utility, which is why lee sin was king of the jungle for 3 whole seasons. the only time supports ever see true nerfs (like alistars on pbe) is when they are completely unkillable/unpunishable. people pick mid/adc if they want to try and solo carry through insane snowball, exept now this season that dosent work. people pick top if they want to tank but still be able to solo win a lane and have good gold income. people pick jungle if they want the most flexible carry potential. people pick support if they want to perform at an average level and reliably get good results. if they dont think they can single-handedly crush a lane, or if they arent good at farming/roaming. if they know what a ward is, and can land approx 1 skillshot, because it stuns so the others dont miss, or cant miss, or the other skillshot is wider then a 6-stack level 16 lulu ulted chogath. its got the lowest minimum input needed, and one of the best input:results ratio. learn 3 supports and you can play the game forever, at a rank above where you would be if you played any other role, and recive allmost no blame for your bad games, and endless praise for your good ones, since its so rare to find a support that isnt just mediocre and coasting along.
: He isn't even close to be broken, if u ward the dragon you can easly kill him at lvl 3 ... and AD Malzh is only useful for objectives, when it comes to team fight he will make you lose xD
i know right?! all this QQ about how tanky he is in lane.... its basically a malphite passive. just auto him when he goes to farm and he will never get it back. mid-lategame his damage is meh. in a 1v1 its good but it was allways good 1v1. your team should have SOME aoe damage or ranged poke to try and pop the shiled before engaging, his cooldowns are HUGE and his damage is at best mediocre. he is the team's APC. if the APC thinks being tanky is worth doing sub-par damage for his team, then laugh and enjoy your win. kill thier ADC to neuter thier entire team, maybe thier jungler since AS jungle is meta now, watch as malz cannot kill more than one person in a teamfight, and needs a solid 5 seconds on them to do it. as for the whole "but le level 3 dragooon so OP". .... ward.... literally just ward. his voidlings die real easy, nip down to mid, lob a spell into them, oh look dragon kicks his head in and you marked him for the kill. there have ALLWAYS been champs who can do dragon early. first it was WW, then Aatrox, Jax, Udyr,shaco... basically anyone with either insane on-hit synergy or some early damage immunity. and people have allways cried about it at first. then they remember wards are a thing, and get over it. if you dont wanna have good map awareness then gg get punished for it. I've played as and against him. as him it really hurts how little damage you do compared to your game state. went 4/0 in lane vs akali since i hard counter her, got kills 2v1 when her and noc go to gank me since dot-voidling-runaway is super strong vs ganks...... then midgame comes around and its like i just lost all those kills. my damage takes so long to ramp up they just murder my team while i twiddle my thumbs. DOT<burst. 1v1ing the best target i can get hold of with my 0 dashes assuming thier adc isnt an idiot just isnt good enough when they murder my adc and then swap to me once some AOE breaks the shield. vs him... literally just auto him once, wait 1 sec, then poke him. keep poking him, shield never comes back, all his spells have huge cooldowns and voidlings are easily killed. sure he is a god-tier pick vs melee champs in mid who are glass but cant poke with autos, but against any mage he is easy to deal with.
: Wow, so Malz have a 55% winrate at the moment just for no reason? <.<"
its not even a week after his release. win rate is going to be skewed since noone knows yet how to properly play against him. so far i havent had any issues with him, just throw in an autoattack. or better yet just kill the voidling as he plays it early and his huge cooldown makes it worthless. ofc if people all-in him as he gets his shield hes gonna win, and his damage IS good if you let him ramp it up, but the same can be said for jax in the toplane, or jinx/draven botlane. there are many champs where if you fight them on thier terms its just an auto-lose, most of them because of ramping damage. just poke him to break the shield, then just harass him so he dosent get it back. simples.
Larry (EUNE)
: this will propably make people use cleanse more.
cleanse does not remove the zed ult.
Silisa (EUNE)
: I read the whole thing! I am so proud of myself right now. Anyway, I agree with you, mostly. The QSS change will bury what little balance this game head. I won't even go into other changes. Maybe Riot will get a clue when Zed and a few other assassins who benefit from this change get the S3 Kassadin treatment. As for the game dying, I have my doubts. This new ranked system is out of control. I have a friend who's been in Bronze for years, and has always had the tendency to play worse than a newbie. Yet, that friend is in Silver 4 now. Hardly high elo, but it suggests improvement to the level of an average player. Which the said friend isn't. This system seems to allow certain kinds of players to climb, and luck of the draw seems to be the rule. If anyone quits the game, it will be players who actually try to improve and climb on their own merit.
gz on reading it all :P! I mostly agree with you as well, exept regarding your last comment. from what i have seen the people most bothered by the changes, the people most likely to quit, arent the people who like to "improve and climb on thier own merit" but rather people who are better-than-average mechanically and climb using a 50-55% win ratio and a lot of games played. for the most part this dosn't involve a whole lot of "improving", but rather just learning each new meta champ as it cycles in, or learning what small changes to make on thier "main". most of this is just sheeping higher level players. with dynaQ out the new "meta strat" isnt pick meta -> buy meta ->snowball 1 lane -> win game. its "oh wait this is a 5 man game, up your teamplay to win". which is 100% an improvable factor. knowing what to pick for your comp, your rank, your team strat ect. knowing what to do to put your TEAM in the best position, rather than just running round aggressively hoarding all the gold. this runs completely counter to everything yoloq players have taught themselves (myself included) and so there is a HUGE amount of backlash, meanwhile low level players like your bronze-low silvers, who are poor mechanically, but have solid team awareness and teamplay skillz, of which i know a few, are climbing on that, which is perhaps what happened to your friend. so yea. most of the people i find leaving are actually the people who mistook "repeat 50% win ratio until X rank" for "improving". maybe the game towards the end of this season will have adapted, with the playerbase being FORCED to think about how best to play as a 5. people might be less likely to flame even, if they learn that they win more by playing as a group, than with the "everyone is trash but me, gotta carry this solo and take all the kills before these noobs feed" mentality. i mean yea thats a pretty hopeful outlook, but meh when you cant control the future why not be optimistic. same goes for the jungle timers thing. most of the playerbase didnt do that whole risk-reward thing about getting enemy jungle vision, they just ignored it, farmed thier own jungle, ganked and were rewarded for not wasting time counterjungling semi-successfully. i cant see pro players being that heavily impacted by this, and it gives lower level players enough info to maybe start looking into counterjungling as a strat, consequently diversifying the gameplay. i mean be honest when's the last time you actually saw someone aggressively counterjungle, rather then just get 600g at botlane in 1/10th of the time. even 300g at top is more reward for less risk. while i do agree with the principal of rewarding people for risks and not just giving them everything for free, i feel that overall the information they were getting was information that wasnt being used at all before for the majority of the community.
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Evil Squidward

Level 58 (EUW)
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