But no one in my games have said anything racist, homophobic or anything like that. So it shouldn't trigger, right? They were very annoying for sure, but no trigger words

Don't think there is more toxicity tbh. Just the same old shit

> FIRST POINT > > SHACO : EARLY IS WEAK > SHACO : ASSASSIN > ASSASSIN : ARE NORMALLY GOOD EARLY > WHY : BECAUSE SQUISHIES ARE SQUISHIES (WOAW TY CAPTAIN OBVIOUS) > SO SHACO : BAD Assassin is a classification of playstyle. Rengar's winrate goes up as the game goes along. Is Rengar not an assassin? Shaco happens to fall into the same kind of playstyle. And if assassins can be said to normally be good early, so can ADC's be said to be weak early and good late. Yet we have marksmen like Lucian and Kalista who are strong early/mid but fall off late. If the roles were as rigerous as you want them to be they would not be ADC. This point is moot. > SECOND POINT : > > SHACO : EARLY IS WEAK > JUNGLE : ALL IN EARLY > SO SHACO : BAD so weak early game junglers are by definition bad? Gosh, if only you could play around vision, tracking enemy jungler, lane priority to get to late where you are good... But I guess those are not things that exist and the good players are all just making shit up. > THIRD POINT : > > SHACO : ONLY AUTOATTACKS > TABI : COUNTER AUTOATTACKS BY AN EFFECTIVE 29% ARMOR REDUCTION COUNTED > SO IF TABI > SHACO : BAD ADC's use auto attacks. Tabi still exist. So they are bad? Adaptive Helm exists in the game. So I guess Cassiopeia is bad? > 4TH POINT : > > MAGE : BUILD HP AND ZHONYA > SHACO : CAN T BURST NON SQUISHY TARGETS > SO SHACO : BAD Shaco build LW and Lethality. Shaco one-shots squishy targets. Not to mention, Shaco can also build Zhonya's and not die to the mage, giving him time for his Q to come back up and get out/ re-engage. Broken!!!!!!! > 5TH POINT : > > MAGES : CC > SHACO : WEAK AGAINST CC > SO IF CC > SHACO : BAD Every champion that does not build straight tank is weak against CC. Name me 1 champion that does not die if CC'ed and focused that does not build full tank. And Zhonya's is not tank. > COULD GO TO 10 BUT I M TIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRED OF EXPLAINING TO KIDS WHY SHACO SUCKS What you do in your spare time is frankly none of my business. Would be nice if you could come with some real arguments to substantiate your claim, though.

You need to check the right boxes. Rarely saw it, too, but then I ticked off Verbal abuse, inting and the bad words thing (forget the name). Now I have seen it twice in 2 weeks.

yeah, i was, to Riot. Just not in game, so all is good. ... Now that I think about it I may not have used blacklisted words per say, but definitely strongly worded that their IQ is below 50 and the world is not a better place with them in it.

I mostly agree, but it is kinda his thing to win the lane fights. And do you really want to fight him later being stronger?

I haven't been banned yet. Done it at least 10 times. Not for telling they said such a word, but because the reported players were the incarnation of those words.

Exactly, hence the salute

that's simply not true. I have trash-talked the shit out of inters and trolls, no punishment in any way. Don't use homofobic slurs or wish death upon him or anyone he holds dear in any shape or form and you are good. If you, say, call him a male reproductive organ and that triggers a ban for you that is because you have been toxic in many games before.

so what you are saying is you voilunteer to go to Prisoner's Island so as to not burden everyone else with your toxicity? You, sir, deserve a medal for your sacrifice {{sticker:sg-ezreal}} (this was the closest thing they had to a guy saluting. I am saluting you)

> Winrate shit : S T O P W I T H T H I S U S E L E S S ARGUMENT Shaco playrate is at a constent 2% and almost 3%, it s like I m saying that Ivern and Skarner are broken because of high winrate but they re at a ridiculous 1% playrate, what about broke ass Lee Sin getting arround 50% winrate ? OH 34% PLAYRATE HE S LITTERALY PLAYED IN ONE ON THREE GAME INTERRESTING THO, what a bout Kha'Zix having 51% winrate ? Oh 18,5%, Camille ? 14% playrate for a winrate that s finally under the 50% because her E just got nerfed, Xin ? Almost 51% winrate and 16% playrate, maybe Graves is an exception ? And it s not !!! 11% playrate for an almost 51% winrate, what s your point ? "Shaco 53% winrate he s browwwwwkenn gneeeeeee", don't let me laugh... Classic distraction. I have never said nothing else needs nerfs. What you are arguing is that I say Shaco nerf = balanced game. I have never said any such thing. You hit the nail on the head though: > "This champion is not fair to play against" : Here i have to agree but seriously do you thing it s simply fun to play ? By your admission he is not fun to play as (for a good chunk of the game anyways) or against. Combine that with a good winrate to make players actually want to sit through it and that is just bad game design. At least make him fun to play. Or rework him in a meaningful way. > About the Tabi I may not have made it clear enough, but my grievance was with the red smite, not just the tabi. Tabi has saved me once or twice, when the Shaco was stupid enough to go on me with three people woth CC around, but never if he came at me 1v1. Now your argument is that I should never be in a position to be caught out. That is true, but also what makes Shaco a shit campion to play against. You literally can't do shit if he is not straight behind and not showing on the map. Doesn't matter if you need to push the wave or set up ward at Baron or something. Tough shit, you will die to the invisible joker coming out of nowhere. > 1) Shaco will loose his Draktarr proc and by the same way the Draktarr proc of his clone and his Q damage and by this way will loose damage on his E=> He won't be able to kill you ==> Why would he stays ? Pure int from my POV. You have 5 secs to proc Draktarr after stealth. How bad of a Shaco are you if you do not AA out of stealth for that damage? Also Zhonya's is 2.5 secs, how do you not proc it in 2.5 secs after that? > 2) What prevent you from using red trinket and straight Zhonya ? Nothing right ? And you knowthat red trinket unactivate boxes right ? Ok so you basically have free escape right ? THEN WHY ARE YOU COMPLAINING ?????? I did not know red trinket disables boxes. Now I do. What stops me from rushing it is getting wards up to catch roams, both on me and for my botlane. Zhonya's is mana issues. GL counterpushing a Lux or Malz who builds mana, or assassins, who has no mana or mana issues for the most part. Which part of the lane do you gank me? 2 steps from tower? your E slows me and you position yourself favorably to run me down. How is that a free escape? Aside form flash ofc, then you regank, then what? Not to mention Ignite.

I don't think that's the case, but that is another topic. But your general logic is nothing is op because over time numbers can be adjusted?

Neither does Shen W. And I just think overall 20% dr is stronger in more situations than blocking AAs. But if we are not going by his suggestion, then sure, it is not at all op, since it reduces 5% damage, or it is super op, because it blocks 80% damage. I like 80% better, so now it is stronger than Shen W, huzzah! Now we're at it, why not give Shen W the same treatment and pretend in our comparisson its duration can be anywhere between 0,1 sec and 10 minues? That ought to be fun

Not a bad suggestion. That's a first. Gj

So a full team red smite is not op?

it is not 100% the same, but: Q: Dashes on enemy and stuns. Shen E: Dashes enemy and taunts. Both are hard CC. You stand there and can't use abilities or move or anything. Similar. E: Makes a zone that reduces damage by 20%. Shen W makes a zone that negates Auto Attacks. Both characters reduce damage one way or another, I personally think 20% of all damage reduced is more op, but that is debateable. R: Gives survivability in a tight spot with your champion right on top of the other. You then sacrifice all your abilities and movement for some extra damage to your adc. Shen R: Survivability and his abilites to help. This is the same ability at the core, just with a weird twist to Shen R.

So if Riot made a champion with basically the same kit as Pantheon, but with no damage, it would be a different champion?

that we agree on. That minion targeting is bullocks. I have lost so much CS from the Cannon changing target on the 2nd to last hit that would kill my minion or what feels like minions critting.

sure, they could be justified. But from a gameplay perspective, why have 2 Shens when you could have 2 different champions? Also, if we look at lore, look at Master Yi and Wukong. Wukong literally learned his fighting from watching Master Yi, no one else. How are they similar in their playstyle?

Yes, that is probably why. Not the point of my post though. I am working on all the things you list, but want to get better mecahnically most of all, hence why I phrased my post as I did.

My junglers don't. At least not the ones that ? ping me after they die. And yes, I obviously need to keep my eyes on the map 90% of he game. This thread has veered away from the original post.

The problem with what you describe is the pings. No pings come out. Only the ? After my dear jungler died. And honestly, half the time I am farming under turret. And he dies 1v1.

The only pings I get are the ? pings AFTER my jungler died. If he pings, I move. Only happens 1/10 times or so, sadly.

I agree with your first point. Though I have been in alne many times, farming with Q because of some assassin or other in lane, and I run oom so very fast. Problem is the wave doesn't hard push to me in those situations, so I either Q for 1 minion, pushing the wave a bit in the process, or I lose so much of my wave before it finally hits tower. So by that time I have less than half my mana left

Look at red smite. Or just PD. That damage reduction is significant. Now, imagine that for an entire team in a team fight. gg.

Akali is Shen's pupil (or was). How similar is she to him?

so you basically want to rework Shen in your own image? That is what this is Q: basically Shen E E: OP Version of Shen W R: Strange version of Shen R

sounds reasonable. Maybe you can then asnwer me this: I have tried the Q farm thing. If that is legit the only way I farm I run oom in no time. When is it worth and when isn't it?

I didn't

no clue then

Did you remember to login?

If she went with the grasp/Ravenous/taste of blood + proced vitals she will heal a lot.

Exactly my predicament

You're not wrong.

fair enough. IF I do that his jungle comes (I have legit never not been camped when against a Fizz), I have to back off, then what? Not to mention, what then when he Qs onto me when I AA him and all in me? 3-4 minions mean nothing compared to a kill

I agree some things in the jungle and/or meta may favor other champions more than Shaco. Just looked it up, and u.gg, op.gg and champion.gg all have Shaco at 52.5-53.5% winrate in plat+. And that is a valid cut-off, since Riot has stated they balance the game for plat+ save for a few exceptions like Master Yi, who could use buffs for high elo, but would then be 70% winrate in low elo. So in spite of some things being unfavorable for Shaco he still has a very high winrate. Why should he be allowed this winrate, while others are left in the dust? now: > Learn building tabi red trinket and eventually red smite as a jungler %%%%%% then we can talk about Shaco, ok ??? So jungler doesn't auto-die. Good, now only 4 people left with no opportunity to get free 20% damage reduction he can one-shot. > Btw before complaining about Shaco look at the aids gank meta in jungle, you know when Lee Sin, Camille or Xin just take red buff and gank non stop for 5 min then get fed and just beat the sh*t out of every other jungler with no counterplay possible. And look at actual Kha'Zix having like 3 times the Shaco pickrate for only 1 fkn % less winrate ok ??? People these days, won't think at least one fkn millisecond... the good ol' Hashinshin. "I like this champion. This champion is very good right now. It is not fun to play against it. So now LOOK AT ALL THIS OTHER TOTALLY UNRELATED SHIT! OVER HERE, PLEASE DON'T LOOK AT MY CHAMPION, LOOK OVER HERE!!" Say you play vs a gank-heavy jungler. There are ways to play around it, like warding your river bush and if you positioned with the gank in mind you can get away with your life. Shaco? Find an opportunity to go into his (at this point, unwarded) jungle and ward his camps. You have 1-2 wards and 6 camps + scuttle. better choose the right one! Why does Kha winrate matter when Shaco's apparently doesn't? > And also before complaining make sure that the champion you main doesn t belong to an aids class whitch is mage, you can just build a fkn Zhonya and beat the sh*it out of every AD assassin of the game, your stuff is the most broken and stupid stuff ever made actually and your whole class didn't get nerfed since... OW at least Season 5 nice one lmfao what are you on about ?????? Good ol' Hashinshin strikes again! Sure, rush Zhonya's, it's not like it's an item with no mana, that mages really need in lane. Now, Shaco shows in your lane, you make yourself stuck for 2.5 seconds. Is Shaco gonna stay, place a box and position for a backstab, or is he gonna flee with his tail between his legs, because OMG the guy turned into a gold statue! Witchcraft!

that is my point. I would do the same if I were in a ny way a competent jungler. Sadly, though, as it stands I can barely keep track of my own camps.

reasonable answer. But when we are both at more or less full health before first back and you are an early ganker who can more or less kill him 1v1?

Sadly I guess you are right. But why even jungle when you don't really wanna play the role?

I see you watch Hashinshin

Someone made a yt video about how to get banned in LoL or something like that, and he showed a list of 300 odd words of stuff you should not say. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnfxGrPRYr8

It helps vs a relatively immobile in lane assassin as ~~TF~~ Talon with a jungler. I would love to see the same thing with a Zed or Fizz who can be on you from further away. And without jungle pressure, because hey, who gets that in Gold?

I'm really not. His argument is the classic "Assassins can't beat mages in any circumstance". I even admit I don't play perfectly in point 1, which is obvious since I am gold not challenger. But I will check out the video.

1) as Ziggs my main CC and disengage is the same thing. And no, I cannot throw it perfectly yet. 2) So die to his no-ult all in? Sure 3) Hardly. Maybe 1 if I am lucky.

And every assassin has a way of dodging

pre-6 is un-important for this discussion since assassins rarely roam pre-6. In the same way late game is unimportant sice we are talking lane phase. And you tell that to the enemy 0/4 Fizz that ends up carrying with a 15/7 score. Hurray for low elo!