: Got plenty of hobbies, but nice to have an outlet for my ADHD when I loose focus hence why I’m around quite often. Oh wait I just checked who you are... why are you so obsessed with me turning up a lot, this is the second time you’ve commented on it even going as far as to insinuate i was stalking you last time... chill some people are on here often that’s not your business. > And after your „counter argument“ to my „Buff Kalista‘s ult“ discussion, i can‘t take you serious anymore. Your counter argument to Kalista was: „she simply isn‘t a Champ for you, that‘s why she doesn‘t need a Buff“ and now you say Fizz is completely perfect and anything, the tiniest of touches would completely ruin him. And a little bit deeper down this board, you say Master Yi is one of the easiest countered champs, just because high elo has no problem with him. Actually I didn’t say that... I do recommend reading first. I never said fizz was perfect... hell I ban him for a reason... and at no point did I say the tiniest of touches would ruin him, in fact I said the exact opposite LThere’s a massive difference between nerfs and completely removing every reason to ever play that champion... nerfs fizz can handle, removing major parts of his kit because you can’t learn counterplay is a completely different thing.“ The fact that I litterally said this shows you couldn’t even be bothered to read before you decided to have a go at me. Fizz can handle nerfs, obviously he can he’s gotten quite a few over the years including 2 mini reworks... but completely removing the entire reason you play him because someone couldn’t be bothered to learn counter play. Seriously the scope of the changes you suggested would kill any champion let alone fizz, and the fact that you don’t understand that despite multible players telling you exactly that just goes to show how little you understand about balancing, which given your previous discussions abd how you’ve handled yourself in this one was already evident. ___ If you wanna be casual and not bother learning how to deal with champions that’s your choice, but don’t come on here crying for nerfs everytime you get beaten by a champion
„Kalista just isn‘t a champion for some people“ by your own words as your tldr counter point. So yes, you did say that you liar. And i can recall our first talk. I was talking how another forum didn‘t wanna acknowledge plain obvious problems with a game, that they see them as „improvements“ and „difficulties to overcome“ and you called them out with: „you gave me flashback of this community“. Well, nice to see that you finally revealed yourself here you hypocrite. And how do you think this entire forum works? There are 3 people here creating discussions: - ranters who write how a champ needs to be nerfed or buffed via their most recent experience - players who simply write the most bs positive crap, just to get them pointless upvotes - the Rest And unsurprisingly, the first covers 60% of the forum, the second 30% and the last 10%. Riot created a fun Moba where everyone enjoyed the simple game. Then they turned it into a hole for „Esport enthusiasts“ who live by: „forget how long you‘ve been playing the game, if you are not High Elo, your words mean nothing“, aka. you. League these days is the definition of unbalanced, lazy and lost fanfare. The game has GLARING problems, yet, the „high elos“ (you) see the game as a masterpiece and that everything is planned and calculated and crafted by masterminds. Also: „i am here every day posting multiple messages, i can‘t remember everyone“. You do that freely, on your own free will. You come to a discussion side, from one of the worst mobas that are currently out there (don‘t come with numbers of esports, play other mobas than you will find out yourself), writing list long didcussions with people to tell them how wrong they are with answers such as: „nah man, that Champion is more on pro plays, that‘s why it‘s supposed to be weak af and not allowed to be buffed“. And you do that every day with possibly every message. Nice „hobby“ you got there. Well, maybe once you crawled high enough into Riot‘s @ss, maybe then you will become the position of Moderator you always wanted. I know i don‘t have to waste time with in denial @ss kissers who go and say: „Kalista doesn‘t need a buff and Fizz will be the worst Champ ever for the tiniest of Nerf“ because they look at high elo numbers and say everything beneath it doesn‘t matter. Get yourself a REAL hobby.
: > But with Fizz, he overexceeds in that part too, having a dash and invincibility leap too that also has a long range. And not only that, both abilities also scale with AP, just so it can also do some MASSIVE damage in an engage. And just to put some cream on the cake, his passive reduces all cc he gets attacked with and takes less overall physical damage. Not only that, the unit part doesn‘t even have a god damn cooldown and is active the entire time. One dash is targeted so highly unlikely he will use it to dodge, and yes his E is high damage but it’s also his only reliable defence... if he uses it to dodge an ability he’s much less likely to hit you with the ability abd therefore loses half of his damage, and if he saves it for damage you cc and kill him His engage is a slow skill shot that needs to be hit from long range to deal damage, meaning dodgable... also all mages can get hourglass to counter it, exhaust messes the whole process up, and any kind of spell shield stops it completeky (read banshees veil and edge of night). Also his passive doesn’t interact with cc I’d recommend learning his abilities first. > Also, iirc, when asked: „why does Pantheon‘s W and R scale with AP instead of AD?“ they said that he would be too broken if it was that way... so why does EVERYTHING scale with AP with Fizz??? For crying out loud, even Shacos scalings are better. I mean Fizz‘s W is an ability, that just makes his attacks stronger. Just like that. Imagine Miss Fortune‘s Q‘s crit strike + her passive, just for 5 seconds and against one of the most movile champs in League. Seriously, not all of his abilities NEED to be scaled with AP. Panth W and R aren’t meant to deal damage, so it scales with ap. fizz W is meant to deal damage so it scales with ap... and don’t forget he’s an assasin all he does is deal damage so yeah all of his spells need damage. > Snd sure, Fizz is mostly know to be a one trick pony. Use R, jump with E to enemy, W and Q him and put some ignite on the poor bastard for good measure. „If he misses his R, he usually can‘t kill you“ what i usually hear. But that doesn‘t change the fact that he will still take off 70% hp with only his other 3 abilities. If an assasin is only able to deal 70% of a target’s health then it’s completely failed in their 1 job and might as well not do anything. Their job is to kill an enemy target and get out, if they aren’t killing them then they are going to do nothing in a fight... no point playing any asssasin let alone fizz if 70% is all you can do. > rework Fizz‘s passive. Change it into something that isn‘t just „you get cc‘d less and move faster than other champs“. Make it something more complex and less safe. For instance, and yes, it is a gimmick option, make it so that Fizz‘s stats all get 5% higher when he is in the lake. Or make it so that his Passive has a cooldown. Simple as that. Well good news his passive isn’t “you get cc’d Less and move faster than other champions”... his passive doesn’t increase movement speed or do anything to do with cc. > make his E ONLY an escape ability, not a Damage Ability. It simply doesn‘t need AP scaled damage. And if it „needs“ more than just a invincible leap („just“) then make it so that after the leap, his next basic attack deals additional AD damage. Not AP, AD. Firstly that’s most of his damage output you can’t remove that and expect him to litterally do anything Also ad scalings just invites tank fizz back... nobody wants that. > remove the passive on Fizz‘s W ability. Not only is it a miniature Ignite. They should also remove the 1 second cooldown if Fizz kills a unit. 20-60 magic damage is hardly ignite. And the cooldown part is necessary for fizz to actually be a laner... again we don’t wanna have him be pushed out of the mid lane cause that’s gonna bring back tank fizz. > make Fizz‘s Ult hitbox smaller. Simple as that. An OP ult such as Fizz should have a higher risk skillshot. And sure, „it‘s reach is not that long“, but if he misses, it still gets actuvated, knocking up enemies who walk into it. And it also has the lollipop effect on it, which is just unfair. It’s hitbox isn’t that large, and it’s a very slow moving ult. also if your issue is that it stays on the ground then don’t walk over it. > this one is my favorite and i REALLY hope it happens one day, because Fizz just deserves that knife in his head. Replace the invincibility of Playful/Trickster with a simple Damage Reduction. Congratulations you just killed him Also again tank fizz > And before anyone goes and says: „he will be unplayable if ANYTHING happens to him!“ listen. There are plenty champions who got nerfed to the ground but players still managed to play good with the champ. Hell, Zed and Rengar have been nerfed so many times and they still are viable. People just have to adapt, that‘s all. And midlane assassins such as Talon do show that you don‘t need an overfilled kit to be a good mid-assassin-champ. There’s a massive difference between nerfs and completely removing every reason to ever play that champion... nerfs fizz can handle, removing major parts of his kit because you can’t learn counterplay is a completely different thing. And talon is far from a good mid assasin champion... frankly he’s one of the worst when it comes to fair play at least fizz has counter items and a weak early game ___ Fizz is annoying for sure but you’re just blowing this way out of proportion... he doesn’t deserve anything you’ve just suggested and frankly a good counter item can solve most of your issues I recommend playing fizz a bit, that way you can learn what everyone else does against you and replicate that in your own games... or just ban him
You are literally everywhere in the forum, which makes me think you need hobbies. And after your „counter argument“ to my „Buff Kalista‘s ult“ discussion, i can‘t take you serious anymore. Your counter argument to Kalista was: „she simply isn‘t a Champ for you, that‘s why she doesn‘t need a Buff“ and now you say Fizz is completely perfect and anything, the tiniest of touches would completely ruin him. And a little bit deeper down this board, you say Master Yi is one of the easiest countered champs, just because high elo has no problem with him. With you, i can‘t take you serious anymore. Believe it or not, but League is also A GAME for people to enjoy and to test and have fun with all the over 140 champs. But people like you seem to forget that...
Infernape (EUW)
: >But with Fizz, he overexceeds in that part too, having a dash and invincibility leap too that also has a long range. And not only that, both abilities also scale with AP, just so it can also do some MASSIVE damage in an engage. He either uses it to avoid CC/damage or uses it for his own damage. If he uses it for either, it's on a longish cooldown and he's open to punishment as he has no way out aside from using Stopwatch. >And just to put some cream on the cake, his passive reduces all cc he gets attacked with and takes less overall physical damage. His passive doesn't reduce CC. It makes him able to avoid unit collision. And his damage reduction is actually pretty tiny and insignificant for the most part. With 1000 AP, he'd only be reducing 14 damage each time he takes damage. He effectively has the same passive as Kassadin (except his isn't limited to just magic damage). >Also, iirc, when asked: „why does Pantheon‘s W and R scale with AP instead of AD?“ they said that he would be too broken if it was that way... so why does EVERYTHING scale with AP with Fizz??? Because he's an AP scaling assassin that deals 80% of his damage as magic damage ? Why wouldn't he scale with AP? Pantheon's ultimate deals up to 700 base damage. If it dealt physical damage, he'd one shot people solely with his ultimate as he builds armour pen and lethality. It scales with AP because he'd never build it outside of getting Baron buff. > Fizz is FAR too stacked with abilities that make him possibly the safest assassin that can „one trick“ you Fizz is anything but safe in lane. Especially against anything with range. A safe champion would be one that has on demand CC, damage mitigation, long range and can farm from a distance etc etc. Fizz has none of them apart from CC. A safe champion would be someone like Orianna who has CC, a shield to avoid damage and a long enough range to never be in harms way unless something gap closes on her. >make his E ONLY an escape ability, not a Damage Ability. It simply doesn‘t need AP scaled damage. And if it „needs“ more than just a invincible leap („just“) then make it so that after the leap, his next basic attack deals additional AD damage. Not AP, AD. So you do that, and Riot has no choice but to put more damage into his ult, W and Q. >give his E a longer cooldown. Seriously, such a GREAT ability needs some serious cooldown. 16 seconds is not that long for an S Tier ability. Yasuo‘s Windwall has a cooldown of 26 - 18 seconds. Pantheon‘s E Shield ability has a cooldown of 22 - 16 seconds. Zed‘s E Shadow Teleport ability has a cooldown of 22 - 14 seconds. Fizz‘s Playful Trickster has a cooldown of 16 - 10 seconds. And if he has full cdr, he spams that thing every 6 seconds. Make it at least 22 second base cdr and 16 seconds max cdr. You do realise the aforementioned champions have non ultimate ranged abilities while Fizz doesn't while also being manaless. The reason why his E has a lower cooldown than Zed's W is the fact that Fizz has no way of farming from outside of his attack range, which is why he's weak and vulnerable in lane and it's offset by it literally costing 30% of his mana at level 1 by having ultimate level mana costs. >this one is my favorite and i REALLY hope it happens one day, because Fizz just deserves that knife in his head. Replace the invincibility of Playful/Trickster with a simple Damage Reduction. The fact he gets untargetable is the bane of EVERYONE fighting Fizz. Not only does escape most attacks, everything thrown at him vanished into thin air when fired. Stuns, attacks, abilities, turret shots & etc. I would LOVE if instead of being untargetable, he simply gets a damage reduction when he is on the trident. Do you want Tank Fizz to be a thing again? Because this is how you make tank assassins. Kha'Zix had the same thing on his R evolve and could build full tank and still oneshot you, while also turret diving you and taking next to no damage from towers.
You talk like Fizz is gonna be absolute useless if ANYTHING is nerfed on him (like a true Fizz main), but you seem to forget that other Champions have been nerfed far worse and people managed to play them relatively good afterwards too, just had to adjust their playstyle a bit for something new. You people seem to get high off from those broken Champs and get scared beyond belief if someone brings up that someone should get a nerf. Talon is a great midlane assassin and he has 50% of what Fizz has. Katarina too. They are both Assassins, like Fizz, just that they are required to be played more safeley, unlike Fizz, who can escape or win-engage 80% of everything League has to offer. Also: „Pantheon would 1 shot people with his ult“, yeah, congrats, Fizz‘s ult does that too and his W pretty much too. Him having his W, Q or E scale with AP isn‘t going to ruin him, stop acting like that would be something that would gut him.
: Statistics say Fizz is at 51.9% winrate This is good, but not in dire need of a nerf. Also I noticed you play jgl TF into Fizz mid 1 Jgl TF is not effecient and you are not even good at it 2 Fizz is a solid mid champion atm 3 both 1 and 2 result in you being underfarmed/underleveled and Fizz being ahead in lvl and farm of course you will get oneshot since TF is not a bruiser or tank AND you are behind
Ok, great, yes, but he is also the most cancerous champ to pretty much every other mage. From Ahri - Zyra.
: Master Yi ??? WHAT?? Really? Master is one of the easiest champs to counter lol
That‘s why he has the highest Pentakill rate in lower rankings. And no, he is not the easiest to counter, since you seem to have forgotten about Aurelion Sol, Kindred, Corki and Dr. Mundo. This doesn‘t make it any less cancerous to fight a Master Yi. But bad from you to go to Master Yi whilst the topic is about Fizz.
Rioter Comments
: Your a bit behind on the meta. Ever since the exp & gold changes on supports most squishy supports are donzo in the role. What you see now is mostly tanky supports like {{champion:111}} {{champion:89}} that where nerfed actually so now where to the supports again that function was less gold like {{champion:16}} {{champion:267}} {{champion:40}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:44}}. While Soraka & Sona is getting nerfed again and Taric with the upcomming funnel problem is on the rise again we will eventually get to a meta where {{champion:12}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:412}} & a random {{champion:53}} vs {{champion:25}} will be luring down the rift. When it comes to AP supports their time to shine is long gone: * When supports actually had income {{champion:161}} & {{champion:63}} support actually didn't do so well. Brand was middle tier 2 and Vel'Koz was even bottom tier 2 and even close tier 3 for a long time. Ones income was nerfed their % health & true damage allowed them to rise again. * Xearath always was a sleeper OP support ever since the introduction of {{item:3802}}. Problem is that most of his effectiveness comes from abusing players that are worse them himself. It's basicly the same as playing {{champion:246}} in that regard. * {{champion:45}} support is more like an low elo pick where games that aren't decided in the first 30 minutes give him a free win. In higher mmr you do have the glacial build that spiked his wiinrate by a lot but hard to coördinate in a solo Q environment. I have played it a few times now and the build is rather expensive. But it's playable but not as busted as midlane. * Swain support is the only support that actually start to become a problem in solo Q. Even tried it in combination with {{champion:523}}. It's so broken you really wonder why his passive isn't hit yet. It's basicly becomes a Blitz hook if any cc hit. But what's worse about this champion is that players with a bad internet connection (high ping) are punished really hard by this champion. This is basicly with bad ping you can't respond on his E in time. So if you have no boots and he place the W correctly during the delay you cannot dodge it. With bad ping it's also almost impossible to sidestep the E (similar to morde in that regard) but the one of swain has a bigger hitbox so RIP. Been a while I saw a viable {{champion:61}} or {{champion:4}} support build. Most of the builds that should work in theory are too expensive for the support role. For Ori the glacial build seem to be intressting but like mentioned before with Veigar it's expensive for what you get. Maybe on Ori it would function a little bit better since I don't think you have to go {{summoner:21}} like Veigar support. For TF I have to test out the glacial build myself on him to judge if it makes him viable but I would rather test out the lethality build on him I think that one might be a little bit more effective in theory. {{item:3814}} is a very underrated item right now and something like afthershock {{item:3814}} {{item:3050}} {{item:3026}}/{{item:3193}} might be fun.
Ok, great, you explained the new meta in every detail. But that doesn‘t change the fact that the champions i‘ve enlisted are used as support Champs (even thou they aren‘t supp champs at all) who are mainly used with Kalista‘s ult as an escape ability and not good at all for the offensive. Maybe Swain, but only after he reached lvl 6 and isn‘t too squishy.
: Her ult is literally insane. They didn't "give a low tier adc a shit ult". They nerfed her to the ground because she had an insane ult and communication potential. Also, squishy supports are meta? Where? Take me to that blessed land.
You seriously didn‘t notice how almost all the mid mages went down to the support role? {{champion:63}}, {{champion:50}}, {{champion:61}}, {{champion:4}}, {{champion:161}}, {{champion:45}} or {{champion:101}}? They all went from mid, to bot support. You seriously tell me you haven‘t encountered people who used then as support champions?
: Honestly no online community is nice, and trust me a lot of what you’ve said gave me flashbacks to this community as well. Balancing is always different in different games, and this reflects to their community.. it’s hard to bring a league perspective into smite, same as it’s hard for a DotA perspective to be treated nicely in league (seriously the mearist mention of that game can start knife fights on here).
: She’s not designed for us, she’s been built for pro play... the ult exists so she has to work closesly with her ally And you can still use it on ranged supports, but instead of using it to initiate try using it as a peel tool, pretty good way to get a Darius off you is to chuck your support st them (also don’t forget that the W passive is a thing) And the extra spear is just if your support disconnects immediately, but it’s archaic as if your support disconnects early enough for you to change your bond it’s also early enough to remake
I just realized something. You‘re the same guy who answered my Smite topic question on „off topic“. Coincidence or Stalking?
: She’s not designed for us, she’s been built for pro play... the ult exists so she has to work closesly with her ally And you can still use it on ranged supports, but instead of using it to initiate try using it as a peel tool, pretty good way to get a Darius off you is to chuck your support st them (also don’t forget that the W passive is a thing) And the extra spear is just if your support disconnects immediately, but it’s archaic as if your support disconnects early enough for you to change your bond it’s also early enough to remake
But that shouldn‘t even be a thing! „That character is for pro players, not for us“ No offense, but it‘s exactly because of that why League is becoming more and more distant to „casual gamers“. League is, and i know a lot of too passionate butthurt defenders will hate me for it, a game first and an „ESport“ later. It should be enjoyable for everyone, otherwise, they will only scare off newcomers and drive off veterans. And if the ult is so terrible to be mostly used as a peel off ability against Top champions, then it truly does deserve a buff/ rework.
Rioter Comments
: Other games have their own forums but there’s nothing stopping you from talking about other games here, just stay in off topic and your fine.... just remember that you’ll be talking to League players not necessarily smite players
Well, i just tried to have a conversation in one of their forums (the SmiteGames forum and the Steam Forum), but theirs are worse than League‘s. Smite has some OBVIOUS problems, but the Smite community, for some reason sees them as positives. For instance, i said that gods are unbalanced af. Yes, there are always characters in Mobas who are easier to play and some who are more difficult. Yet, the payoff is that if you master the more difficult Champions, their playstyle gives you more options in different fights where you can come out on top. Usually it goes that a more difficult characters is far better with pros than easier characters. In SMITE, you can master the absolute hardest god ever and he/she would still sniff out against noob champs like Loki, Zeus, Anubis or especially Ymir. There is a reason you will always see the same noob gods in every game ever, no difference the mode. Some gods are strict and simply broken. Another problem i mentioned was that Hi-Rez mainly focuses on Conquest. That means that Gods seem „balanced“ on this mode, bust either useless or broken on other modes. That‘s why you mainly see Mages in Joust. Yet, the main responses i get there are them either embracing that and saying: „it‘s more complex and harder to master“ or „it‘s not League“. They either are so in denial that they simply won‘t accept anything said towards the game, or they immediately drag League into the conversation...
: If master yi really needed a nerf don't you think his winrate would be positive plat + ? Also tanks don't conter yi it's the opposite actually i said burst champs conter yi , one more proof that you don't know wtf you talk about . Also i play since beta (since rammus is out ) so yeah i know what i'm talking about and the funny thing is at that time the champs that were considered the most op ones were master yi and katarina ( when she came out a bit after ) . I wonder why when everyone was inexperianced they were thinking master yi was op hmmmmmmmmm {{sticker:sg-lux-2}} (probably because he have a low still cap and it's hard to deal with when you're bad at the game ) The only yi that was rly op was ap yi , that was the shit . Then they had to buff AD master yi when they nerfed the ap one so they made a mini rework that made the champion what he is today . He has been strong at one point but it was comming from the guinzoo that made everyone able to use it strong at that time , you could even see xin ap guinzoo and it was rly good . And if i bring up the rank it's because how would i judge your skill then , it's actualy the purpose of it . When i see silver 4 50% winrate i already know that you suck and it's a fact( also your ranks the previous seasons lmao) . I mean i had a shit load of accs and i never got into silver , while you sit here with a negative winrate so of course i'm better then you at this game and you can get bothered by it as much as you want it's still the truth their's a reason why the gape of ranks is so huge between us . So yeah they could rework master yi i wouldn't be against it but their's champs that need a rework way before him , and he already got one . And tbh did you already saw a rework where the champs end up worst then he was ? Trust me you don't want this . And for the nerf it will just end higher elo master yi players and make it unplayble when he's already rly hard to play high elo and if you don't have the good champs on your team ( lulu , taric , yuumi that kind of shit ) you're pretty much %%%%ed if you don't get fed early . And yes i want a medal with master yi needs a buff written on it . And btw you rly need to get good, when i said that it wasn't me making fun of you ( ok maybe a little bit ) The reason you think yi is op it's because you're not really good at the game and that's it . When you say you play ranked once a month you're clearly lying , i looked your op.gg yeah you didn't ranked this month but the last one you were very active on ranked so idk why you lie one that , you have 100 games with 50 % winrate on silver it's pathetic , i'd even go as far as to say braindead {{sticker:sg-ahri-2}} (emote required)
Also, you go to actually check how many Ranked games i had over a month ago? Sure, i played a dozen Ranked games and stopped again and before playing Ranked „actively“ again, there was also huge hiatuses where i simply didn‘t even touch it and you say playing 10 ranked games within months is „active“? Yes, you ARE braindead. And without going into your History like a desperate little rat, i can tell you definitely main Yasuo, Zed, Akali, Fizz or other usual cancer champs. Probably even Yi himself. And i bet the last time you even touched a Draft or Blind pick game for fun was when Gangplank still didn‘t got his rework. You are probably the same type that goes into Urf and tryhards and flames on others. League ain‘t all about Rank, but you junkies would never understand that and the saddest part, Riot supports the new toxic generation.
: If master yi really needed a nerf don't you think his winrate would be positive plat + ? Also tanks don't conter yi it's the opposite actually i said burst champs conter yi , one more proof that you don't know wtf you talk about . Also i play since beta (since rammus is out ) so yeah i know what i'm talking about and the funny thing is at that time the champs that were considered the most op ones were master yi and katarina ( when she came out a bit after ) . I wonder why when everyone was inexperianced they were thinking master yi was op hmmmmmmmmm {{sticker:sg-lux-2}} (probably because he have a low still cap and it's hard to deal with when you're bad at the game ) The only yi that was rly op was ap yi , that was the shit . Then they had to buff AD master yi when they nerfed the ap one so they made a mini rework that made the champion what he is today . He has been strong at one point but it was comming from the guinzoo that made everyone able to use it strong at that time , you could even see xin ap guinzoo and it was rly good . And if i bring up the rank it's because how would i judge your skill then , it's actualy the purpose of it . When i see silver 4 50% winrate i already know that you suck and it's a fact( also your ranks the previous seasons lmao) . I mean i had a shit load of accs and i never got into silver , while you sit here with a negative winrate so of course i'm better then you at this game and you can get bothered by it as much as you want it's still the truth their's a reason why the gape of ranks is so huge between us . So yeah they could rework master yi i wouldn't be against it but their's champs that need a rework way before him , and he already got one . And tbh did you already saw a rework where the champs end up worst then he was ? Trust me you don't want this . And for the nerf it will just end higher elo master yi players and make it unplayble when he's already rly hard to play high elo and if you don't have the good champs on your team ( lulu , taric , yuumi that kind of shit ) you're pretty much %%%%ed if you don't get fed early . And yes i want a medal with master yi needs a buff written on it . And btw you rly need to get good, when i said that it wasn't me making fun of you ( ok maybe a little bit ) The reason you think yi is op it's because you're not really good at the game and that's it . When you say you play ranked once a month you're clearly lying , i looked your op.gg yeah you didn't ranked this month but the last one you were very active on ranked so idk why you lie one that , you have 100 games with 50 % winrate on silver it's pathetic , i'd even go as far as to say braindead {{sticker:sg-ahri-2}} (emote required)
People simply can‘t talk to Rank junkies, especially the ones who are still hard stuck in their puberties. You people think backwards if it‘s the simplest thing. You are definitely the same guy who agrees that Ivern‘s E nerf was needed and that Kindred never needs a Buff. Congrats on your Gold rank or whatever kid, since talking to Braindeads leads to nothing more than wasted time. Also, learn some grammar. Having a gold Rank doesn‘t make up to being a Toxic child who - doesn‘t know ho to use these and to have god awful grammar on top of it makes the least amount of being taken serious.
: ***
Damn you are such a child. Congrats, you are a high rank on Ranked. Want a medal? Here‘s your special cookie 🍪 I tell you how to socialize because you are the only one in this entire forum who brings up rank and ends with „git gud“. The typical children of LoL these days, which automatically makes you a braindead. And „the people who are better than me“ all bring the exact same things up for „counter argument“ - have hard CC in your Team - use {{item:3157}} - make him focus the Tank - bring up other champions who are „harder“ and „more dangerous“. And those are more safety steps than actual „counters“ to a Yi. But some of those same people admitted that Yi‘s kit is nonetheless outdated and unhealthy. My point, still stands, where the majority agrees that Yi needs that Rework or Nerf. Also, yes, i am Silver, and that‘s because i may play a Ranked game once a month since i hate every kind of „ranked“ in any game. I play games for fun, because that‘s what games are for, having fun. But you toxic children seem to focus more on boast about your Ranks since you got nothing else to boast about in life. I started playing League when Yasuo was the newest released Champ. So yes, i do say i know more than you, not because of rank, but actual experience. You braindead Child. (No emotes required)
: ***
And you are a Rank junkie. I RARELEY play ranked since it‘s the most useless thing in games. What will i achieve if i play 3000 hours to just be Challenger rank? So that i can boast about it on forums like lifeless braindeads like you? And i don‘t need to be Diamond to call out the obvious that Yi needs a rework or a hard nerf. Hence why more people agree than disagree. Do yourself a favor kid and spend some of those times wasted on Ranked to learn how to actually socialize. Maybe then you won‘t be such a Braindead who judges everything by Rank status.
: I can't tell whether you're being ignorant or pig-headed. Either way, enjoy living in your fantasy dreamworld where Master Yi is the most OP champion ever. Hope you one day get your nerfs for him, good luck with it. {{champion:11}}
And i hope one day you will not suck so much that you lose to a Rengar who didn‘t need either a bush or his ult to kill you
: You don't have to tell me that, I have only ever played 1 ranked game in my life. I play exclusively for fun. Let me shock you now: I have fun both playing with and against Yi. And most shocking of all, I understand why he isn't overpowered. Life is only as complicated as you make it. Shaco{{champion:35}} , Graves{{champion:104}} & Jax{{champion:24}} are just a small sample of champions who can wreck Yi almost regardless of how fed he is. Maybe you should play them more.
Well, i already told you WHY Graves and Rengar are much more vulnerable champs than Yi. And Shaco? Are you being serious? That Champ is more of a mage these days than an Assassin. He is always build with AP because of his boxes, Ult and knife throw. Also, he is f**ked when engaging in a 1 v 1 against others. He NEEDS his ult for that and you never see him full on engage in head on teamfights. He places his Boxes, when someone triggers them, he throws his Knife and when it gets dangerous, turn invisible and use R. And after B, repeat the same process. And Jax? Sure, when fed, he and Yi are pretty much on the same wavelength. But unlike Master Yi, Jax NEEDS a good start. He NEEDS the kills and the farm to be as dangerous. If he is „decent“ into the lategame, he stays decent. Yi on the other hand doesn‘t NEED the kills like Jax do.
: I call out the rank because you insulted me and told me that i'm wrong without any argument for the simple reason that i'm right so yeah you're silver V and that's why you think yi is op . But ppl who are wrong always end up insulting so {{sticker:katarina-love}} i forgive you
Also, you say Yasuo is more dangerous than Yi because of „mobility“? Sure, if you are fighting on a lane with ally minions where he can dash nonstop around and spam Q then he has „more mobility“. But then again, for Yasuo to be dangerous, he 1st needs to know what he is doing and 2nd needs to be fed to be dangerous. Do you know how many usual Yasuo mains f**king fed my team, just because he thought he can dash around and win every 1 v 1?
: I call out the rank because you insulted me and told me that i'm wrong without any argument for the simple reason that i'm right so yeah you're silver V and that's why you think yi is op . But ppl who are wrong always end up insulting so {{sticker:katarina-love}} i forgive you
I insulted you because you were the first to try. Also, how can ANYONE take you serious - if - you - don‘t - even - know - how - to - use - these - braindead? {{sticker:zombie-brand-clap}}
: I call out the rank because you insulted me and told me that i'm wrong without any argument for the simple reason that i'm right so yeah you're silver V and that's why you think yi is op . But ppl who are wrong always end up insulting so {{sticker:katarina-love}} i forgive you
BlueNova (EUW)
: I think i have miss explained myself there in a few points and might have not given enough details so let me walk over the same points in correlation to your reply. - as i said before, only 1 good hard CC will shut yi from a lategame fight, a gank from him or even an early kill if you're lucky enough so just 1 champ having that 1 hard CC is enough counter for yi. champions like syndra or morgana or even lux.. teemo.. rammus...renekton... and i can go on for a long time,are all you need for a good counter. many of them dont only counter yi btw too.. teemo's blind and invis counters yi and a high AS adc. syndra's stun does so much burst to wipe off a yi plus an assasin like zed and thats only 2 examples ,not the whole things in the game. - Although farsight alteration {{item:3363}} is a really good way to know where a yi is, going in and warding your surroundings before a "post-fight" will happen is almost easy and safe as warding Baron when there is only 1 enemy support alive. try to look for the safest ways to ward. warding isn't as easy as it sounds . it takes time and practice to know how to ward correctly in all stages of the game. plus you dont need constant vision of yi. you just need to know from which side will he come. this way your hard CC champ or ur Rammus jg will know which side to stay close to when yi goes for the back line - yi cannot take down your tanks in 2.4 seconds. but your tanks can blow yi off when he goes helpless away from his team as a flank to go for the adc who countered him by using hourglass. You dont play alone vs yi your team is there. No matter how fed the yi is,as long as your team works together to focus him it will be a jg off of the enemy team's fight. - Ivern is a support j. Not a champ for 1v1ing. his powers show most in a gank and in clearing his camps. Plus Ivern and yi are not the only jg champs in game. champs like ww or kha or even lee are loved in low and high elo and are very good at clearing either 1 or many creep-count camps. This also leaves you a great chance to ward and evaluate where the enemy jg is since you've just took his grump and warded his wolves. "So he must be in top (or bot) side! quick let's sneek the dragon (or herald) off!" - ganks happen because the laner is over extended or didn't ward his side right. I assure you if the bot lane wards botside river (which is deeper than the 200 unit far bush) and keeps their tri-bush cleared and dont over extend or fight when they dont know if yi won't come out of the corner, a silver elo yi will be helpless and even waste alot of time trying to gank that lane. There will be games where your laner will tilt a losing lane which is a great habitat for yi, or a bot lane that just gave vayne a chance to be 3 levels ahead and be 5/0. These are not your fault and dont listen to them or blame yi for having a very good place to farm kills from. It's just how the game is. - as said before deep warding is really an important thing to do. if you are playing adc and see the enemy jg top. then set a 1 min mental timer to deep ward from behind the wall of the buffs. you do not need to face the actual camp to ward it, just throw a ward over the wall and ur good to go. your jg will love you so much. and yes i am talking as if yi is 1v5 the whole time he you dont find a yi fight in beside his teammates. Yi's follow up ( or any follow up in that matter) thrives of using the "moment" of his team's engage to catch the enemy off-guard and slit the adc and supports off the fight and work his way from behind. that how every assassin and flank works so if u think about it. That yi is alone without his team for these 2-5 seconds of every teamfight's beginning. If the yi is the fed one, then these 2- 5 seconds decide if you win the fight or not.
Ok, after the first part, i simply can‘t take you serious anymore, at all. You talking about Champs with hard CC? Haven‘t you read our Team combination? Jinx with hard CC stun, Neeko with hard CC stun and hard CC Ult, Skarner with hard CC Ult and E stun, Mordekaiser with Hard CC E grab and a Renekton with hard CC stun. And as i said prior, our hard CC‘s are all skillshots, which Yi can EASILY dodge with either his Q or run away from it with R (or without R since projectiles are rather easy to dodge in general). Skarner and Neeko‘s R‘s have HUGE cooldowns compared to Yi‘s Q spam and even his own R. You seem to forget that point and klick stuns are pretty much non existent now. Ryze had the best stun for that and it was replaced now with a slow, which is simply useless against Yi now. And sure, Annie and Pantheon have point and click stunned, but they aren‘t always picked or want to be picked.
: Well, I have been a fed Master Yi before, and I got 1-shot deleted instantaneously by a starved Rengar, 2 levels below me. I was chasing him in the open, with no bushes, and he just turned around and killed me with Q like it was just another Tuesday. But you don't see me crying about Rengar on boards, I just learn to play around it. Do you know how many un-fed Graves have kicked my ass as Yi, and there is no way for me to outplay it? I can try to predict his abilities/autos, and meditate 1 of them, but all it takes is 1 shotgun blast to the face and it's 90%+ of my HP. I have to pray that he is not fed, otherwise I have to avoid him with 1v1s. The majority of the League of Legends roster can make trash of Yi easily. Even Lucian, an ADC with no CC, can 1v1 a Yi, if they know how to Lucian. Yi is also quite weak without his ult. Trust me - There's a reason he's not used in pro play.
The way you talk, is how you encountered a fed Graves and fed Rengar. You people talk about how {{item:3157}} would be great against Master Yi, which is ironic, because that items is a HUGE counter to a Rengar gank, 12x more than Master Yi. And i had my argument back in the day about Rengar and there is only 1 huge problem about Rengar. His passive. The main talking point is to give Rengar‘s passive a cooldown of at least 6 seconds, so that he can not spam it. But if a rengar ganks and that gank failed, then he is F**KED, seriously, he has less escape options than Yi. Hell, he can‘t even engage in a fight when being chased without a bush being near. The fact that you lost to a „starved“ Rengar with a Master Yi just means you suck more than me. Rengar‘s build is a full on 1 trick damage build. His auto attacks suck, his W is mainly to regain health, his E is rather Weak (unless you use the upgrade) and so his 1 trick is to jump out of bush, use Q and use then Q again with the upgraded version. And Graves? Seriously? Sure, when fed, he can literally kill squishy enough champs with 1 auto attack. But 1. he first needs to get close to hit all rounds and 2. he needs to be fed. And also, you can dodge his Q and W and after 2 (3 with E) he has to reload, meaning he is FAR more vulnerable then Master Yi. And again, he NEEDS to be fed for that to do.
: from here it looks like you're the one in denial. Go and play 10 consecutive games as Master Yi and then let us know when you've done it, and we will have a nice look at your OP.GG then we will see who is in denial
Yi was my first Champ i got Mastery 5 with and that VERY easy. I stopped playing him since i got VERY bored of him. And sure, in pro plays, it‘s all about teamplay and ending the game quickly. And this might VERY surprise you, but League is also played by payed for funs. Shocking, i know. And Yi is simply a not fun factor champion who is broken af who don‘t play the game mainly for ranked.
: ur just bad
I mean, seriously, tell me „easy counters“ to a lategame Yi, since i saw a far behind Yi killing fed Yasuo‘s and Irelias. Yi ONLY needs {{item:3153}}, {{item:1419}} and {{item:3124}} and he has enough items to 1 v 1 anyone.
: ur just bad
And you are simply in denial. But what to expect from mains or simply braindeads.
BlueNova (EUW)
: Keep in mind that having 5 deaths doesn't reduce the player's gold. so 5 kills is all he needed to get into the late game phase (ofc with a little farming). I agree that yi is a strong pick for noober players. but he is'nt,... he was. after the tweeks riot did to him it put him right in his place where he should actually know when is CC coming his way and how to dodge ALOT or else ur team fight will be a loss. i suggest u do these stuff before considering a game or a fight: - if a yi is in the game.. pick a bust or hard CC champ or make sure ur teammates pick one (remember only 1 good hit on yi will deny his power in the on-going fight - before you go in a fight. YOU HAVE TO KNOW WHERE YI IS! get vision of him or else dont fight! yi is not an engager he is a follow up so he will tend to hide somewhere in the jg to flank all the back line after an engage from his team. - Hourglass exists and it does for a reason. (for back lines only.. you dont wanna be the galio or rammus that hourglasses out and leave ur adc melt away) - if you are the jg.. Invade in early ! - If mater yi is ganking top or bot when ur in the opposing lane, ping ur jg where he is and proceed to take the crab or actually farm a camp off from him if u can - if you are the support.. deep ward!! you do not know how important this is to know if the enemy jg is on bot or top side and ping him when u see him so ur jg can actually have a solid plan on how to deal with him hope this helps u out
Having 5 kills as a jungle is still < 12 kills as the bot ADC and 12 assists from the supporter. Also, the counter your points: - you do know that in the champion select screen, players also need to look at the rest of the enemy champion list, right? They can‘t only focus on the Yi that got picked. The mid needs to pick the right champion to be able to face off a Zed. Bot needs a good combination of a Xayah + Rakan combo, Top needs a good counter pick against a Darius. Which means their main focus can‘t always be on the picked Yi. Also, it can occur that Yi was last pick and NO ONE knew even he was gonna get picked. - to get Vision on Yi in jungle, you first need to go in blindly, which Yi is probably waiting for. Meaning that you need to go into jungle and place wards as a Team. But if your team goes together jungle, the other lanes are free for pushes. - Hourglass = 2 - 4 seconds. Yi Ult = 7 seconds + refresh for every kill. Hourglass is NOT a free „survive Yi lategame“ ticket. Also, while you wait with Hourglass, Yi can also put up his W and waits for you with even more health. Hourglass is good, but it‘s not perfect. UgottaNiceAshe said it best. - you say it like it‘s that easy. Yeah, good luck winning a 1 v 1 encounter early against a Yi as a Ivern, Skarner or Rammus. Yi might be „bad“ early, but so are most Jungles too and saying „invade early“ can backfire BADLY. - are you talking about early or lategame? If early, you still need to be careful. Again, EASIER SAID THAN DONE, especially if the Gank happens and yourself are running low on health or Mana. You aren‘t always in position to do that stuff. And in lategame? He doesn‘t need those jungles anymore since he farms now on enemy champs. - you are repeating yourself now and that „counter“ is seriously basic step Nr. 1 and less of a „tactic“ and just a weak reminder of how to play the game And no, this doesn‘t help out at all against a lategame Yi, since you talk like Yi is 1 v 5 the entire match while the rest of the enemy team doesn‘t exist.
Shaebadu (EUW)
: blow master yi up. you can literally 2 shot him. also any thresh can hook master yi in his ult and boom there he goes.
Good luck hitting that Tresh hook in the first place when Yi is running towards you with ult. I said previously, every stun these days is a skillshot and it‘s not a guarantee hit once you threw it out. Also, Yi‘s Q cooldown gets reduced, the stun abilities others don‘t. Again, Q is a click ability, while most hard CC‘s are skillshots.
: No wonder why you're silver V
If calling out the Rank is seriously your best counter argument, then there is no wonder why you‘re a braindead.
D4V1D B (EUW)
: you can say the same about Kata just land your cc
But with Kata, she is pretty much a one trick pony. If you manage to either escape her Ult range or better yet, cancel her ult, her usual Nr. 1 tactic is to run away. Katarina is nothing compared to Yi. Getting knocked up? Spam Q and then W. Getting stunned? W and then Q. Anything? Spam Q and shred trough armor with E.
: Top 10 bronze posts Yi sucks and i'll explain you why : - his ganks sucks he has no cc and his dmg early is not bursty at all so you can't rly do shit the first 6 levels where it's the meta to gank a lot early also he get conter jungled very easy since he don't have a good escape -you metionned it the first 20 min he sucks and that's part of why the champ is terrible , in a game with goods players the team with the strongest jungle early gets the objectives and the team who gets early objectives win in most cases ( First turret team is 75% winrate ) -He's not that good late he still have to take high risks in teamfight since all his dmg are melee range and after 20 min when you're a bit behind you don't have that much item and with yi you're either a chips that will get oneshot by any assasin or mage ( or even renekton ) or you builded tanky and you the on hits effects and att speed that makes you deal that big %%%% dmg -Then yeah when he have 4/5 items and when the ennemy team don't have too much CC or burst or bruisers you become kind of op but does that mkes him a good champ ? I don't think so . In the same kind of champ as yasuo which i think is way better since he got high mobility dmg CC and that windwall but if the champ have a winrate that's so low on plat+ it's because like master yi his powerspikes comes too late and most of time the fate of the game is already sealed . If i can give you an advice it would probably be git gud
The most braindead answer i have seen so far... Congrats!
: you really think you deserv a win when you have a neeko support on late game? cmon. I got exactly the same result the other day, my neeko suport was ultra ahead yet she lost lane at the end and the game too. Coz she isnt a good support specially with her conventional building and strategy.
Oh yes, because a Neeko support is the bane of a team‘s win condition. You do know that there were 4 other players that did well too, right? And ironically, Neeko had a damn good stun and her Ult also helped against Master Yi early. It wouldn‘t be too different with a Morgana, Lux or Blitzcrank support. And yes, there are FAR too many Mid Mages now as support. Brand, Vel‘ Koz, Swain, just to name a few.
Marcua (EUW)
: I am going to do this short, because you do not seem to want to change your opinion about Master Yi being op. - Master Yi was 5/5 as you said, so he also kept up with you. If he went 0/5 he would not be that relevant after 25 minutes. - Master Yi got a skill ceiling, Vayne and Twitch can be played at a much higher level than him. - I will refer to my first comment on how to counter him. He is not as strong as you think.
Well, you seem to be biased, or in denial. Sure, Master Yi doesn‘t have a skill ceiling, which makes it even worse. His „skill list“ consists of spamming Q every 2 seconds, shredding trough Armor with his E, literally saving himself with his busted W 70% damage reduction and near full health refill and make everything x2 with his R. Yi CAN face off 1 v 3 without ANY problem or repercussion, Vayne and Twitch, not so much. Let‘s say a Blitzcrank goes and grabs a Yi lategame (not fed, simply lategame) and he has an ADC and Mid Mage with him. After the grab, Yi simply presses E + R + Q, he is saved from most damage, of course kills the ADC first, heals with W, presses Q again, Mage down and then Blitzcrank is dead as well. Twitch and Vayne don‘t have a busted „save me“ ability like Yi‘s W. Sure, they can go invisible, but in ALL fairness, in that situation, Akali‘s smoke is more useful than the invisibility and also Yi‘s Q is better than invisibility in that scenario. Also, 5/5 is NOT a „you fed him“ stat. Especially when our Bot Team was far more fed than Yi and Mid was also better. You ALWAYS bring up Twitch and Vayne, who are grapes compared to Yi who is a Melon. Twitch and Vayne NEED a good start to be as dangerous as you say. But if they would also be „decent“ after 20 minutes, they wouldn‘t be any more dangerous than the rest of the team. To be frank, you seem to be too biased towards Vayne and Twitch for completley saying that „Yi is fine“. So i‘m just gonna leave the last word to be from "I need Love".
Marcua (EUW)
: I have played this game for a long time, and I can assure you that I have encountered many Master Yi players in my games. A portion of those (especially during the funnel-strategy times) got very fed, some to the extent that they were nearly impossible to kill. I have gotten them on my team, and against me. Each champion in league of legends can get grossly ahead, and a big portion of champions would at first glance seem overpowered when they as a 10/0 after 8 minutes comes crashing down on you and one-shots you. Then we have champions like Master Yi, who do not need to get ahead early to be "op" in the late game. It is like Vayne, Twitch, and Jax. They all have huge dmg in the Late game. That is a part of their kit. When you go into a game against a Yi, you need to remember that you have to end before he gets to this point. He is so weak early, that this should be possible. That being said, Master Yi is, in my opinion, one of the easier late-game carries to deal with. Unlike Vayne and Twitch, he does not have stealth, and unlike Jax, he does not have tons of hp and an ability to dodge auto attacks. I would much rather play against a Yi than any of these champions. So to conclude on my comment. Of course, I have experienced the same as you. But even though Master Yi can seem overpowered in a game where he has ideal conditions (Game goes past 30 min, he was allowed to farm up, no hard cc on your team, etc.), he is not an overpowered champion. :) Have a great day.
I have to somewhat disagree with you. Yes, Vayne and Twitch are a bother lategame, mainly because of their invisibility. But i am not talking about „fed from the beginning“, i am talking about lategame comeback. Like i said, Yi was very behind everyone else, yet managed to become op 22 minutes later with only 1 or 2 maxed items. Jax NEEDS to have a good start and keep up to be dangerous in lategame. His comeback isn‘t as strong, just like with Vayne and Twitch. And also, while Vayne has HUGE AD lategame when played right, she still needs to be careful. If she goes in 1 v 3, one wrong move could mean she is dead. The same with Twitch. But Yi on the other hand spams Q, dodges EVERYTHING with it, E to do extra damage, W when hurt and continues to spam Q.
: Sounds a bit like you were let down by your team to me, but hard to say without having seen the replay. If I detect a problem like that in the enemy team and I don't have hard CC myself I try to use chat and get my team to focus all of their CC on that problem (here: Master Yi). Of course, that requires ppl not running around with /muteall on and actually willing to coordinate. But let's be honest here: if the team isn't willing to coordinate like that, do they really deserve victory ? Team chat can be a powerful PvP tool, I highly recommend using it for that purpose.
We did! Especially me with bot had a VERY lovely chat. Renekton was also very kind. Seriously, no one was being Toxic nor flaming, which is RARE these days. Mordekaiser was the only one who didn‘t „talk“ as much. But we all understood each other swell. Then when „it“ happened, we only flamed at Master Yi. And with the CC, like i said, we DID manage to fully stun lock Master Yi at one place for 6 seconds while he had ult on. But after 22 minutes, when we all missed our stuns and had to wait for the cooldown, Master Yi just spammed his Q All. The. Time. Like i said, his Q shouldn‘t have the basic hit ability on it to reduce cooldown. Instead, just lower the cooldown and remove the basic hit thing.
Marcua (EUW)
: Master Yi might seem like a god, and impossible to deal with, but I promise you that is not the case. He is a very squishy champion with no CC. Hard CC shuts him down, and his early game isn't something to brag about either. Try to make him fall behind early, as you mentioned he is extremely weak early game, and due to a slow clear, he can be counter jungled. He is weak against burst too. I would personally play Evelynn or Khazix into him. Strong early game champions that also have a good late game. Rammus could also work against him due to the nature of Rammus' kit. If I should guess i would imagine that you have recently played against a Yi who got fed, or who was allowed to farm until minute 20 and get items. Then you came to the boards to let off steam, and that is okay. But it is important to remember, that Yi is not unbeatable, and there is a reason so few people in high elo play him. He can be countered easily. Now I know that if you get to 45 min ingame and Yi gets his full build, he is going to hurt. But 4 out of 5 times, you can shut him down early with some simple invades. Be wary of his level 3 with red buff, since he can actually deal a lot of dmg there, and then just shut him down. Most if not all jungle got better ganks than him, so you can make sure all your lanes get ahead early before he can do anything. Master Yi might be able to 1v5 some games, but in a game where both mid and bot are fed? I don't think so.
You are correct, i wrote this after an encounter, but it‘s a little bit more complex than you think. Also, i had this issue with Yi for a LONG time but only decided now to write a discussion about it. In the game that it happened, i was Skarner jungle and building Tank items. And for the 1st 20 minutes, it was GREAT! My team consisted of Mordekaiser mid, Jinx and Neeko bot, Renekton top and me (Skarner) jungle. Like i said, everything went smoothly. I farmed the jungle, got the rift Herald, had a lot of succesful ganks and i even managed to give bot 4 - 5 kills in a row, to get them fed (which ironically included 2 gank attempts of Yi and both times we killed him before he reached us (my E stun, Neeko‘s stun and Jinx‘s stun to keep him in place). Hell, we were damn close of winning. But then, after like 22 minutes, Yi started to become A LOT stronger out of nowhere. We went into a teamfight and it seemed we would win it yet again. Yet, this time, we NEVER managed to stun Yi once and he kept on Q‘ing and everything and we couldn‘t outrun him since his ult nullifies slows. Seriously, before 22 minutes, he was 5/5, after the 22nd minute, he stacked up to 20/5. And like i said, i build Tank and i had 100 Armor on me and plenty of HP and to top it all off, my W which made me even tankier. Yet, within seconds, he shredded trough my ENTIRE build and i died. And just to say, my R was on cooldown. And sure, whilst Yi doesn‘t have any hard CC, he has his R, E, Q + cooldown reduction combo. And since his R‘s passive + Q‘s basic hit ability work perfectly, he kept on spamming Q and he made 5 hits in 1 second. So yeah, if you experienced the same thing as me, you would realize that Yi is not „fine“.
Rioter Comments
Shamose (EUW)
: http://forums.smitegame.com/
Rioter Comments
: If I were you I wouldn't make a jugement about Cho after just playing 3 ranked games with him and winning two of them. I think that might be a teeny tiny bit early. Generally Cho definitely profited from this buff, but his overall winratio is still at exactly 50%, which is way too low to be considered "OP". If anything he is perfectly balanced. That being said...Cho'gath in the jungle actually has a pretty decent winratio of almost 54%, so this actually seems to be strong right now. We'll see what the next days and weeks of data will change about that.
2 years later and Cho still broken af. What to expect? Riot can‘t balance Tank champs for s*it and they don‘t even try to hide it.
: i won't say that adding new champions are bad, but at the rate that riot is adding them i think that time could be better spent on other things. 146 (almost 147) is definitely enough for a few years. this was the point i was trying to make
Yo, remember back in the day, when there were FAR more items that you could purchase? Back then, you could combine a single champ with so many different variations with the items. That way, you kept the game diverse in your own way. But today, if you pick a champ, you are forced to buy certain items because the selection of them isn‘t as big anymore. It‘s easy for people to get bored by a champ if Riot doesn‘t give them tools to truly experiment with them.
: > [{quoted}](name=Fyrijou,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=rYTwVg0Q,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-12-12T16:36:51.910+0000) > > Sure, EVERY Champ has a passive, but they are near jokes compared to Darius‘. And no, i am not gonna pick Mid Mages or Bot ADC‘s, since that would make things far too easy, which seems common with you people. Please, pick on them. I'd really like to hear some bad passives since I can't think of any for ADC's off the top of my head. Ashe, Lucian, Xayah, Varus, Caitlyn, ... They all have great and important passives that define their playstyle. Except for maybe Sivir. That passive is really underwhelming. > [{quoted}](name=Fyrijou,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=rYTwVg0Q,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-12-12T16:36:51.910+0000) > > Wukong‘s passive only gives him extra Armor and MR for every Champion around him. Okay, Wukong's passive sucks. I'll give you that one. Riot has been working on a gameplay update for that champion for some months and they will give him an actual passive most likely. > [{quoted}](name=Fyrijou,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=rYTwVg0Q,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-12-12T16:36:51.910+0000) > > Nasus‘ passive simply gives him 12% LS. Firstly, it's 12%-24%. Secondly, 12% LS translates into a gold value of 450g. So basically Nasus starts the game with additional stats worth a kill and an assist. I don't actually understand how this can be bad in your head. At level 13, he get's 900g out of his passive; that's three kills. For free. If you look at how Nasus functions, this is actually an important part of his kit because he needs the sustain both in lane and in fights. > [{quoted}](name=Fyrijou,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=rYTwVg0Q,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-12-12T16:36:51.910+0000) > > Tryndamere‘s Passive gives him a higher Crit chance and replaces his Mana with a Rage meter, which he can use for his Q. Yeah that passive that just casually grants the champion a gold value of 1600g (**more than FIVE kills**). That is not even counting the heal. How trashy is that. Imagine someone starting the game with 5 kills already. How freaking useless would that be? Also this passive makes the champions entire identity and playstyle. > [{quoted}](name=Fyrijou,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=rYTwVg0Q,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-12-12T16:36:51.910+0000) > > Garen‘s passive is that he simply regenerates health when he isn‘t attacked for a long enough time. Which can easily outheal Darius' passive if you trade well BTW. Really bad I guess. > [{quoted}](name=Fyrijou,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=rYTwVg0Q,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-12-12T16:36:51.910+0000) > > Fiora‘s passive is that if she hits the weakspot of her enemy, she gains damage and other amp ups. Sure, dangerous in the hands of a pro, but still nothing compared to Darius. Are you serious? You don't need to be a pro to hit the vitals with a dash and two slows. You get a MS steroid, a heal, and percentage max HP true damage out of this passive. In what universe can you call Darius passive overloaded and say that Fiora passive is underwhelming and use it as a prime example of a bad passive? At this point I have legitimate concerns about your sincerity. I actually can't tell if you're trolling. > [{quoted}](name=Fyrijou,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=rYTwVg0Q,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-12-12T16:36:51.910+0000) > > I could go on, but you won‘t find a Top Laner who‘s passive surpasses that of Darius, which makes you bleed for quite some health, being a mini version of Ignite, after 5 stacks gives a BIG Damage boost and applies to your Ult. What makes or breaks a passive is your ability to play around it. **You don't get to five stacks**. Unless your opponent is hard griefing his lane. Darius entire kit is *designed* to be played around his passive. That's why his passive seems to do more relative to the rest of his kit. Somehwat like Irelia or Akali, who also base their entire playstyle around her passive. Sure, nerf his passive. But then you will need to put damage into the rest of his kit. His numbers are really underwhelming if you take out the passive. > [{quoted}](name=Fyrijou,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=rYTwVg0Q,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-12-12T16:36:51.910+0000) > > Try reading the full text before ranting, ok? If it‘s just the damage and the applying of an extra Hemorrhage stack, i got nothing to say, but his Q also heals him for 15% of his missing health. I did read the full text and in the passage I was citing you complained about the "massive damage" (your words). Maybe read your own post again :-) > [{quoted}](name=Fyrijou,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=rYTwVg0Q,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-12-12T16:36:51.910+0000) > > And sure, he sometimes has to use W to exactly position that Q strike, but you seem to either not play melee Champions top or never encountered Darius top lane, and only in ARAM. He can easily hit the Q even without his W usage because, surprise surprise, melee Champions like Pantheon and Garen are required to get close, so that they can hit him, which also means Darius can easily hit them back. This is just not true. I do pay melee champions top and it's REALLY easy to dodge his Q (only real problem being on red side due to deceptive hitboxes). If you get close you can easily avoid his blades hitbox and he can't just walk up and W you unless you are inting anyway. I get the feeling that you just walk on top of him, try to fight him when you obviously can't and then complain how you lose an obiously losing trade. That's the general gist I get from the things you say :D > [{quoted}](name=Fyrijou,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=rYTwVg0Q,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-12-12T16:36:51.910+0000) > > If a true Darius player is so heavily required to have that 90% slow down, to not be useless, then we ain‘t talking about the same Darius here boy. What does Darius also have to stick to his Enemy? His E of course and the enemy can either go Ghost or build MS (or an Item that slows the Enemy‘s MS) so that he just outruns the enemy, making every chase a cakewalk. And you keep on going that Darius NEEDS have that W, or otherwise, he would never use his Q. All this can be avoided by proper spacing. All you need to do versus Darius is just not die in lane and it's a win. The champion doesn't scale well into the game without a huge lead. This comment confirms my suspicion that you don't know how to trade and space properly in the lane. > [{quoted}](name=Fyrijou,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=rYTwVg0Q,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-12-12T16:36:51.910+0000) > > I called it Lethality, since the 2 are almost so identical Their actually not. Maybe you should read up on how damage reduction is calculated. > [{quoted}](name=Fyrijou,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=rYTwVg0Q,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-12-12T16:36:51.910+0000) > > i didn‘t wanna write „Armor Penetration“ 20 times over. And it‘s one things to to be able to stand against Tanks and it‘s another to completely ignore ALL of their defensive Items and overall Armor, degrading them from their Tank role. You don't ignore "ALL" of their defensive items. Yet again, I invite you to read up on how defenses and pen are calculated because you clearly don't know. > [{quoted}](name=Fyrijou,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=rYTwVg0Q,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-12-12T16:36:51.910+0000) > > if he misses the pull, that almost does nothing to him. Yeah, right, "nothing". Except for that 24 second opening on him where he is basically your %%%%%. At least if you know how to trade versus him. > [{quoted}](name=Fyrijou,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=rYTwVg0Q,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-12-12T16:36:51.910+0000) > > His Ult has currently 3 abilities on top of doing damage. And what would be so bad of Darius‘ ult would be more like Garen‘s? Garen‘s ult is already a really great tool for someone like him, even without any extra abilities stacked on it. And also, Darius has to Ult kill a single champ in a Teamfight and he becomes unstoppable after that. He immediately gets Noxian might, the surrounded enemies get feared, his ult resets and he won‘t lose any Mana cost for every next use in the duration. You basically suggested to make his ult a **worse** version of Garen ult for no reason. His ult right now needs him to play around his passive correctly, as does his entire kit. His ult without stacks is really low damage and his ult with stacks does a ton. He has really clear and simple win conditions. > [{quoted}](name=Fyrijou,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=rYTwVg0Q,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-12-12T16:36:51.910+0000) > > The only way it can be „denied“ if you dodge it. The only ways are if you dodge it completely, evading the attack. Or, if you can‘t make it, walk to the shaft. But if you walk towards the shaft, it means you are close enough again for him to put some hemorrhage on you. The argument still stands, his Q is good enough on itself, but with the health recovery (especially in a teamfight or against multiple champions he can hit it with, it‘s too safe. It's not "safe". What are you talking about. Do you realize that Darius puts his points into his Q, thus his damage lies in this skill? If he misses it, that's huge for him. He can be bullied and traded on afterwards (a trade is not an all in btw. From what you write, I'm somewhat guessing that you can't tell the difference). The champion doesn't autoattack with 3.0 attack speed. He doesn't instantly get to 5 stacks because you walk into the shaft. This is not how the game works. My argument still stands that you don't actually get hit by his Q too much in lane if you are actually using your mouse and keyboard.
From what i read from your „arguments“ is that you will always say: „nah, you‘re wrong. Not because you are are incorrect number wise, but because i had different experience with him“. The top champ passives i mentioned were in comparison to Darius‘ ult and it‘s use in a 1v1, not the f-king long time use with Gold. Also, you seem to forget that Garen has a big Shield ability in his W and that he still has some increased movement speed after hitting Q. Not to mention, Garen‘s Q silences, which forced Darius to use/ waste mana on his abilities before the Q hit, retreat, regain health and play the waiting game, since Darius will run out of Mana, whilst Garen doesn‘t. Hit Q, use W, retreat, regain health, repeat. And i ran with Armor and Health regen items. The braindead tactic still worked and i won (better said defended) my lane whilst the rest of the team was pushing and farming/ killing. And you call about „spacing against Darius“... again, it does TRULY seem you never play melee champs in top. Try „keeping the space“ when you try to farm with a Tryndamere, Pantheon or Renekton. Sure, Champs like Nasus, Pantheon, Olaf and Ornn can farm and kill minions from a distance with their abilities, but you have to waste mana, for farms, whilst Darius easily gets it with auto. Knowing that if you are a milisec too slow in reaction with 1 inch too close whilst trying to farm that 1 minion, E,W,Autos,Q and goodbye 60% hp. Yes, sounds normal to Assassin Champs like Talon, Kata and Qiy, but Darius is a god damn bruiser who can build full Tank items and still does the same amount of Damage. At this point, i can‘t take you serious in the slightest. You are probably the kind of person who says that Kindred doesn‘t need a single buff because she would then be OP broken or that Kalista is better now AFTER the nerfs than before. The simple fact stands, Darius is overkited, has high reward with low risk, his playstyle requires 0 IQ to be dangerous at lane since he will always be safe af and that he DEFINITELY deserve more a Nerf than Ivern. I won‘t waste my time trying to discuss a dead obvious topic further with someone who talks about something he never encountered with in denial „arguments“.
: I do. I've played every champion too much already. New champions are the only way to keep players like me interested.
So you want to say that you played all 146 Champions with every possible combination of Items and Runes and in every possible mode? Meaning that you probably have Mastery Level 6 with Every Champ? Even the newly released Aphelios? Dude, you are either lying, or get yourself a life man, in that way, you won‘t get burned out on League so fast...
: And just like that i won the argument. You know, you could have just left without showing everyone what a sore loser you are first...
„Won the argument“ whilst calling literally everyone who agrees with me or „Call me Teddy“ ignorant. God, you truly are „in another world„ {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}}
AiFted (EUW)
: he is probably the most played support in competitive since his release, the buffs might really help him though. His e ability might not make sence lorewise but what can you do
Rant on the discussion forums about it?
Ilovemobas (EUNE)
: Braum is absolutely broken with Lucian as partner. instantly freezes enemies with passive. Braum is a champion that could quickly get out of hand if he got too many Buffs. he is A lot more tanky than a yasuo and pantheon.
„Braum is absolutely broken with Lucian as partner“... 1st of, not really. Sure, {{champion:201}} 's passive and {{champion:236}} ‘s passive compliment each other, but that doesn‘t really make it broken. And you seriously think it‘s broken because of a short stun? Then that would mean {{champion:99}} and {{champion:25}} would be broken with every ADC Champ. Also, does that mean {{champion:201}} is not broken as long as he isn‘t paired with {{champion:236}} ? Because that would sound weird. It‘s also a good opportunity to bring up WHY {{champion:201}} needs that E buff. Everyone who picks {{champion:201}} focuses on his Passive, since it‘s his strongest tool. Or at least until he gets to Lvl 6. If they buff and make his E his best tool, then the players would focus more on being a defensive support, rather than aggressive. And yes, {{champion:201}} is tankier than both {{champion:80}} and {{champion:157}} , but he also does VERY little damage. Unlike the other 2, {{champion:201}} can‘t fight his way out while- or after the Shield is up.
: >And you simply seem to be in another world. Well maybe in a different world than you but this world i live in is called reality. >Dude, from the votes themselves we can see more people agree on what i said anyway. And if you weren't ignorant, you would know that votes mean nothing. It doesn't matter how many other ignorant players agree with you. Votes don't make your statements any more true. >Your counter arguments is: „you‘re wrong“ without providing actual facts that help YOU. The „facts“ you bring are nothing more than false nonsense. I did actually provide you with facts, you just chose to ignore them. Not to mention there is no point in providing any further information before you educate yourself on the subject so you are worth discussing this topic with. Your ignorance on the topic means you don't have the base information necessary to take part in this discussion.
Majority (us): „Riot STILL doesn‘t know how to balance their 10 year old game. They shouldn‘t put in new champs until they fix the problems they already have“ Minority (you): „nO, RiOt nEvEr MaKeS MiStAkEs, wE AlSo dOn‘T CaRe aBoUt BaLaNcE, wE JuSt wAnT MoRe sTuFf BeCaUsE qUaNtItY OvEr qUaLiTy!“
: >Kalista got nerfed to the ground. They had to gut Zoe‘s damage. They nerfed Pyke more than he got buffed and Senna was also already nerfed. Qiyana was also hit with a nerf. Let‘s also not forget Sylas. For crying out loud, they even nerfed Ivern of all Champs, which he seriously didn‘t really need. So yeah, Nerfs > Buffs when it comes to the new releases. You kinda missed the entire point. >And if i‘m ignorant, then you are just plain stupid. That's not how i works. > If they release Champs broken and OP on purpose at the beginning, then that‘s just bad marketing. It isn't and this is what makes you ignorant. You speak about things you don't understand.
And you simply seem to be in another world. Dude, from the votes themselves we can see more people agree on what i said anyway. Your counter arguments is: „you‘re wrong“ without providing actual facts that help YOU. The „facts“ you bring are nothing more than false nonsense.
: I'm not a Darius main. In fact, I fcking hate the champion. But still I disagree. There is nothing OP about the champ and he definitely doesn't have "EVERYTHING for EVERY situation". He has a **really** basic kit. The only issue is that he can punish even small mistakes quite heavily and even if he is already ahead. This combined with his snowbally nature makes him pretty annoying to deal with. There is no universe where you can serioiusly claim that his kit is overloaded. It's REALLY simple. Simple kits are a double edged sword; it's easy to excecute but also predictable and thus easy to play around. > [{quoted}](name=Fyrijou,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=rYTwVg0Q,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-12-11T22:24:41.200+0000) > > - his Passive is called Hemorrhage. It‘s basically a smaller version of Ignite at the beginning. It causes 12 (+1 per Level) over 5 secs and it can be stacked up to 5 times. That means Darius is always walking with 3 summoner spells around, the 2 he summoner choses and a mini ignite. And it‘s not like it only gets activated trough auto attacks, but his Q and W also apply Hemorrhage. And sure, if it was just that, it wouldn‘t be too bad, but after Darius stacked an enemy champion with 5 of them... > > - the second part of Darius‘ passive is called Noxian Might. It basically amps up Darius for doing nothing more than hitting the same Champion 5 times or killing a Champion with his Ult. It gives him 30 - 230 extra Damage and gives every other Champion he hits immediately 5 stacks of Hemorrhage. But, the worst parts comes with his ult, which we come later to... So... the champ has a passive. So what? Every champ does and pretty much every passive is really strong. He can't just walk up and get to 5 stacks unless you are really brain afk or are trying to fight him early - in which case you deserve to die since you are clearly playing into his win condition. > [{quoted}](name=Fyrijou,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=rYTwVg0Q,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-12-11T22:24:41.200+0000) > > - Darius‘ first Ability is called Decimate. After a 0.75 second delay, Darius swings his Axe in a circle, dealing massive damage. Sure, if you get hit by the shaft, you only receive 35% of the damage, but for that, you have to get closer to Darius, where he is still able to hit you with his Auto and his W. But the worst part isn‘t that this Ability does a lot of Damage and applies extra Hemorrhage, but the fact that he recovers 15% of his missing health if he hits an enemy with the end of the axe. And it gets multiplied for every Enemy he hits. Meaning in a Teamfight, a single Q will heal him for 45% of his missing health... How f-king Stupid is that you give his Q a huge amount of damage AND a great way to gain Health back??? And even worse, the only way to reduce the effects of Q? To get closer to Darius... The damage is not "massive". Not at all. Also, the range is less than 500. If you get consistently hit by his Q in lane by a short range skill shot with almost one second windup you literally have no hands. The only way he should be able to land this is if he hit his W earlier - which requires him to hit his E before that. Unless you just let him walk up to you and press W but in that case you are hard griefing anyway. > [{quoted}](name=Fyrijou,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=rYTwVg0Q,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-12-11T22:24:41.200+0000) > > - Darius‘ second Ability is called Crippling Strike. It deals up to 170% of his total Damage and gives another stack of Hemorrhage. But that‘s not the worst part. The worst part is that it SLOWS THE ENEMY DOWN TO 90% OF IT‘S MOVEMENT SPEED. And to top it all off, of Crippling Strike kills a enemy Champion, the Mana gets restored that you used on Crippling Strike and the CD is halfed. WHY GIVE ESPECIALLY DARIUS AN ABILITY WITH 90% MS SLOW DOWN??? Why give him a slow? So that he can actually land his Q somewhat consistently. Furthermore he needs to stick to his target to get his passive up. If you remove his slow he is instantly useless because the enemy can just right click their nexus and he can't really do anything. > [{quoted}](name=Fyrijou,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=rYTwVg0Q,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-12-11T22:24:41.200+0000) > > - Darius‘ third Ability is called Apprehend. It‘s basically a pull with no cast time. And for some Braindead reason, THIS ABILITY SLOWS YOU DOWN TOO FOR 40%! But, the actual worst part, is that the passive of his E is that it gives Darius Extra Armor Penetration. 15% - 35%... Yes, because it‘s EXACTLY what Darius needed, extra Lethality... It's not leathality. It's armor pen. So he can actually fight tanks - which he is supposed to as a bruiser. Also the spell does have a 0.25 second cast time. And a huge cooldown, leaving a huge opening. > [{quoted}](name=Fyrijou,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=rYTwVg0Q,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-12-11T22:24:41.200+0000) > > - completely remove Noxian Might and let Hemorrhage be his only passive and that the Stacks don‘t apply to extra True Damage to his ult. So basically you want his ult to be a worse version of Garen's. This would also turn his passive from "Don't let him stack it" to "OMEGALUL IDC" which I don't think is healthy for a passive that can be played around already. > [{quoted}](name=Fyrijou,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=rYTwVg0Q,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-12-11T22:24:41.200+0000) > > - remove the health recovery on his Q Why? It's his only form of sustain. It's already inconsistent and can be denied. > [{quoted}](name=Fyrijou,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=rYTwVg0Q,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-12-11T22:24:41.200+0000) > > - reduce the god damn amount of slow down on his W. Instead of being it 90% from the beginning, let it be 20% in the beginning, then to 40%, then 60% and when maxed, then 90 or 100%. Or take away it‘s passive of Lethality if you wanna keep the slow down. > - either remove the slow down on his E, or give it an actual casting time. Make it like with Tresh‘s hook where he winds up for a sec and then pulls. Or be it something like Mordekaiser‘s E. Again, it's % armor pen and not lethality (and it's on his E, not W, which is really important because this way you can't get both damage and armor pen by maxing W). I don't get why you would want to reduce the slow on his W though as he needs it as pointed out above. His E has a cast time as I already said. > [{quoted}](name=Fyrijou,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=rYTwVg0Q,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-12-11T22:24:41.200+0000) > > - make Darius‘ ult actually cost f-king mana. Or how about you remove 1 or 2 of it‘s abilities? Don‘t create Fear after killing a Champion, or don‘t make it Reset or at the very least, don‘t make it scale with Hemorrhage. His ult does cost mana at rank 1 and 2. The 0 mana cost on his rank 3 ult is a really niche application in case you get several resets in a teamfight that you already started with half mana. In lane, when mana can actually be an issue, it does cost 100 mana. > [{quoted}](name=Fyrijou,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=rYTwVg0Q,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-12-11T22:24:41.200+0000) > > And yes, it‘s not that he is invincible or can‘t be killed in any way. Ranged ADC‘s can easily outpoke him. Champions like Teemo or Jayce are a great counter to him. Champions that have a good mobility could dance around him. But the number of champions that counter Darius is shorter than the number of champions that Darius does Counter (and i am of course not talking about the mid mages or bot ADC‘s, like i said, they outpoke him with their range). But don‘t come and say he‘s perfectly balanced because he has a „long“ cooldown on his abilities, his winrates or the manacost. So there are champions who clearly counter him. What's your point then? There is no balancing rule in this game that states that every champion needs to counter as many champions as he is countered by (that would be stupid and impossible). Either pick a counter into him, ban him, or learn to play against him in bad matchups. Your proposed changes, even if only half would be applied, would kill the champion in pretty much every matchup.
> [{quoted}](name=Bananenschnder,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=rYTwVg0Q,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-12-12T09:28:49.208+0000) > So... the champ has a passive. So what? > Every champ does and pretty much every passive is really strong. He can't just walk up and get to 5 stacks unless you are really brain afk or are trying to fight him early - in which case you deserve to die since you are clearly playing into his win condition. Sure, EVERY Champ has a passive, but they are near jokes compared to Darius‘. And no, i am not gonna pick Mid Mages or Bot ADC‘s, since that would make things far too easy, which seems common with you people. Wukong‘s passive only gives him extra Armor and MR for every Champion around him. Nasus‘ passive simply gives him 12% LS. Tryndamere‘s Passive gives him a higher Crit chance and replaces his Mana with a Rage meter, which he can use for his Q. Garen‘s passive is that he simply regenerates health when he isn‘t attacked for a long enough time. Fiora‘s passive is that if she hits the weakspot of her enemy, she gains damage and other amp ups. Sure, dangerous in the hands of a pro, but still nothing compared to Darius. I could go on, but you won‘t find a Top Laner who‘s passive surpasses that of Darius, which makes you bleed for quite some health, being a mini version of Ignite, after 5 stacks gives a BIG Damage boost and applies to your Ult. > The damage is not "massive". Not at all. Also, the range is less than 500. If you get consistently hit by his Q in lane by a short range skill shot with almost one second windup you literally have no hands. The only way he should be able to land this is if he hit his W earlier - which requires him to hit his E before that. Unless you just let him walk up to you and press W but in that case you are hard griefing anyway. > Try reading the full text before ranting, ok? If it‘s just the damage and the applying of an extra Hemorrhage stack, i got nothing to say, but his Q also heals him for 15% of his missing health. And sure, he sometimes has to use W to exactly position that Q strike, but you seem to either not play melee Champions top or never encountered Darius top lane, and only in ARAM. He can easily hit the Q even without his W usage because, surprise surprise, melee Champions like Pantheon and Garen are required to get close, so that they can hit him, which also means Darius can easily hit them back. > Why give him a slow? So that he can actually land his Q somewhat consistently. Furthermore he needs to stick to his target to get his passive up. If you remove his slow he is instantly useless because the enemy can just right click their nexus and he can't really do anything. > If a true Darius player is so heavily required to have that 90% slow down, to not be useless, then we ain‘t talking about the same Darius here boy. What does Darius also have to stick to his Enemy? His E of course and the enemy can either go Ghost or build MS (or an Item that slows the Enemy‘s MS) so that he just outruns the enemy, making every chase a cakewalk. And you keep on going that Darius NEEDS have that W, or otherwise, he would never use his Q. > It's not leathality. It's armor pen. So he can actually fight tanks - which he is supposed to as a bruiser. > I called it Lethality, since the 2 are almost so identical, i didn‘t wanna write „Armor Penetration“ 20 times over. And it‘s one things to to be able to stand against Tanks and it‘s another to completely ignore ALL of their defensive Items and overall Armor, degrading them from their Tank role. > Also the spell does have a 0.25 second cast time. And a huge cooldown, leaving a huge opening. > 0.25 seconds, wow, that is SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCH a huge opening for attacks... if he misses the pull, that almost does nothing to him. 0.25 is nothing compared to Tresh Mordekaiser. And if he already has that god important slow where you won‘t shut up about, then his E is simply overkill. > So basically you want his ult to be a worse version of Garen's. This would also turn his passive from "Don't let him stack it" to "OMEGALUL IDC" which I don't think is healthy for a passive that can be played around already. > His Ult has currently 3 abilities on top of doing damage. And what would be so bad of Darius‘ ult would be more like Garen‘s? Garen‘s ult is already a really great tool for someone like him, even without any extra abilities stacked on it. And also, Darius has to Ult kill a single champ in a Teamfight and he becomes unstoppable after that. He immediately gets Noxian might, the surrounded enemies get feared, his ult resets and he won‘t lose any Mana cost for every next use in the duration. > Why? It's his only form of sustain. It's already inconsistent and can be denied. > The only way it can be „denied“ if you dodge it. The only ways are if you dodge it completely, evading the attack. Or, if you can‘t make it, walk to the shaft. But if you walk towards the shaft, it means you are close enough again for him to put some hemorrhage on you. The argument still stands, his Q is good enough on itself, but with the health recovery (especially in a teamfight or against multiple champions he can hit it with, it‘s too safe. > Again, it's % armor pen and not lethality (and it's on his E, not W, which is really important because this way you can't get both damage and armor pen by maxing W). I don't get why you would want to reduce the slow on his W though as he needs it as pointed out above. His E has a cast time as I already said. > Because 90% is FAR too much for base slow down. Seriously, if you TRULY think that Darius DESPERATELY NEEDS 90% MS Slow Down just to be viable, then you REALLY never faced off against a Darius. Guess what, if Darius‘ W slow down gets reduced, players have to actually start using their head and start being actually careful and tactical with Darius. With 90%, he can easily slow his chasers down, hit his Q, get health back, hit them a few times for hemorrhage and he already turned the table. Or when someone tries to escape, he is F-KED since Darius slows him down to almost being a Stun AND his E pulls him back again. Reducing Darius‘ Slow Down means players have to actually start playing careful and skillful with him. > His ult does cost mana at rank 1 and 2. The 0 mana cost on his rank 3 ult is a really niche application in case you get several resets in a teamfight that you already started with half mana. In lane, when mana can actually be an issue, it does cost 100 mana. > ... omg, the fact you think it‘s a „niche application“ that his broken Ult also can be reset... sure, if it can be reset with nothing else backing it up, no problem. BUT IT GIVES YOU IMMEDIATE NOXIAN MIGHT AND WITH NOXIAN MIGHT IT DOES SO MUCH EXTRA TRUE DAMAGE AND IT CAUSES FEAR. With something like that, his Ult SHOULD be like Kassadin or Kog‘ Maw. That if he re-uses his Ult, it will always cost double the amount of Mana then previously. > So there are champions who clearly counter him. What's your point then? There is no balancing rule in this game that states that every champion needs to counter as many champions as he is countered by (that would be stupid and impossible). Either pick a counter into him, ban him, or learn to play against him in bad matchups. > Yes, there are of course Counters, just like how EVERY Champ has Counters, but with Darius, you need to be VERY Specific. Yes, Bot ADC‘s such as Quinn and Vayne are a no brainer. They have the range advantage and can outpoke him no sweat. Then there are also Mid Mages like Ryze and Lux, who can also easily stay in a save distance, while their abilities do hella damage. But it‘s a completley different story when YOU pick first and then Darius is later revealed to be Top. MOST of the Top Lane Champions are immediately inferior to Darius once he reaches Lvl 3. He out CC‘s you, he outkits you and you need to play VERY safe, even if you pick Teemo or Jayce. Yes, i won‘t lie, i managed to win top lanes against Darius‘ too, but i had to play disgustingly. Once with Garen, where i ALWAYS ran towards him, hit him with my maxed Q and then ran away again, to replenish health. I did that over and over AND OVER until he had a safe, low amount of Health where i could engage in 1 v 1‘s. I also won with obvious picks like Jayce. Keep the distance and when hooked, switch to Hammer and E him. Teemo of course because, as bad as Darius is, Teemo will always be worse for Melee‘s. And i witnessed that Urgot is a great counter to him, forcing Darius to play safeley now. But if you picked Tryndamere, Mordekaiser or another Champ that DOESN‘T counter Darius, then you must play more safe than anyone else. Meaning you constantly have to stay near the turret to stand any chance. And you can‘t „prevent him from farming minions“, since he could easily catch up with you and if he gets you once, you will lose up to 80% HP. From ANY Champion i faced off against, i never had to play so over-passive and over-cowardly, not to win against Darius, but to SURVIVE Darius. > Your proposed changes, even if only half would be applied, would kill the champion in pretty much every matchup. No, what it does is make Darius a Champ that requires now some actual skills to play. He is currently TOO SAFE with the kit he has. He can play over aggressive all the time with no repercussions. The only consequence that COULD be, is if the Jungler agrees to babysit Top, just so you would stand a chance. He is far too safe the way he is now. He rarely has to play with care and skill in the beginning, and once at the end, he steamrolls over the Enemy team and is a unstoppable monster in Teamfights. If ANY of the Nerfs would happen to Darius, it just means players need to play him with actual skills and Care now since he won‘t be as safe anymore. And from what i read from you, you either never play Melee champs in top against Darius or you never faced off against an actual Darius Player who knows what he does.
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Fyrijou

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