xviii001 (EUW)
: i don't think bad skins need that much work compared with epic and legacie skins
That is not my opinion, but riot games said it.^^ So it is not about what we think or not, it is about the numbers which riot games has. I don't have the link anymore, but basically: Noone buys cheap skins. Everyone buys more expensive skins. Hence using ressources for cheap skins will actually lower the income of riot games, as they can make less expensive skins (and some of the guys who buy cheap skins will perhaps buy less expensive skins) Also a ton of the newer chromas are basically cheap skins. Have you seen the chromas for Beemo? Those would have been 520 or 750 RP skins in the past.^^
xviii001 (EUW)
: skins
Riot said that only very few people bot them, as they changed too little. Most guys just buy 1350+, that's why they they just add those skins. It was just not worth doing the other skins.^^
SayDaddy (EUW)
: they should change it fast it's the worst skin ever
Well, I personally think it looks funny. Of course there could be more particles, but all of the changes would be change just for the sake of change.
Rinart73 (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Gnominator,realm=EUW,application-id=Mpd1UjGe,discussion-id=wth1Aakm,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-13T10:04:23.907+0000) > > I don't think that the banning system need any change currently. There are a ton of op champions, so it is not possible to just ban broken champions. So it is already stupid to ban those champions and you can just ban what you don't want to play against.^^ I'm not going to dive into numbers, because I think everyone's opinion about trash, op, unplayable champs is different **but valid**. But with Riot releasing more and more champions and not properly balancing them or buffing champs just to sell a skin (hello Pyke), we need more bans. If Riot don't have time/will to work on balance anymore, they can do the easy thing at least - give us more ban slots.
Well, saying something is overpowered is not an opinion, as it states a fact, which should be proven. Saying something is disgusting to play against on the other hand si something else, that can be opinion based. ALso my comment implied that you are wrong with the bans. Imagine that there are 7 op champions and you have 6 bans... then there will always be one op champion available, so one side always has an advantage. If there are 146 op champions, then you can ban 10 of them, but still every player will have an op champion for himself... So it is actually more balanced for the game. Also it will lead to more diversity, as everyone will start banning the op champions they don't like to play against - so there will not be champions like Yasuo, who are bannd 99.9% of the games. So making mroe champions op actually makes the game more balanced: If every champion is op, then noone is. Giving more bans will lead to exactly this problem: There will be some champions who are always banned, even though they are not that op. asuo was not op... it was just disgusting to play against him. Even as Yuumi had around 40% winrate, she was still banned, even though she was far from being op in soloqueue. People just didn't want to play against a cat, which can't be attacked. Also people will never udnerstand if a champions is really op or not... There will be champions who are ctually easy to play against, but as there were quite a few bad games 10 patches ago, people will always ban him. If the champion is actually played some times, people will notice that he is perhaps not that op and learn how to play against him. Tl;dr: Your idea will make balance worse. Your idea will make gameplay worse (some champions will always be banned) Your idea will make people play worse against banned champions, which will lead to even more bans of that champion. (vicious circle)
: Champ ban Idea?
Akali has a 46.4% winrate. She looses most of her games (by far)... All the others are at a stable 52% winrate. Also what about the real broken champions? Champions like Janna, Aurelion, Warwick, Mordekaiser, Shaco, Soraka, Ahri, Maokai, Taric, Kled, Kassadin all have a higher winrate than all the champions you mentioned. Just because you have problems fighting against some champions, doesn't mean that they are op. (I personally ban Brand in 99% of my games, as I hate playing against him) I don't think that the banning system need any change currently. There are a ton of op champions, so it is not possible to just ban broken champions. So it is already stupid to ban those champions and you can just ban what you don't want to play against.^^
SayDaddy (EUW)
: how is this shit a legendary skin ?
Back when the skin was released, all legendaries were like that.
: lost gemstones
Did someone else used all the gemstones? Normally if something like that happens someone else got your password and got into your account. (just look at your recently acquired skins)
: Bring Back Elo
Elo basically still exists. There was always the mmr in the background and elo just was the number of your mmr. This is still exactly the same as before. THe only difference is that they don't show you a number, but a shiny symbol. Everthing else is still the same. KDA also does not matter at all and never has for ranking. As you assumed the difference is that he played before. His elo was higher than yours at the beginning, so after 10 plays (which you played together) his elo is still higher than yours.^^
: Gameplay : secondary role and autofill
>We would wait an eternity before all games Actually if you play ranked, they give you your first role almost everytime and we don't wait crazy windows of times to get a ranked game. Why wouldn't it work for the normal Draft ? As far as I know the system is exactly the same for normals and for rankeds. Probably people in normals just want to have more fun and a lot of people like mid lane champions most... so even if they are stronger on another role (which they play on ranked), they just all play midlane. Let's be honset: How many mid lane mains do you know who say "Let's play support just for a change!" and how many supports to you know that say "Let's play midlane for a change!" There are very few people who say "I like to play support so much, so that I play it all the time in normal!", while I know a lot of people, who play support in ranked, but don't play it at all in normals. Actually noone talks about being selfish. The main reason ist he time. We do not talk about "double the time" or "triple the time", but more about waiting 30 minutes for each game or longer. (and then a person dodges and we have to wait another 30 minutes)
: Unplayable SONA
Concerning winrate: Place 15 of 32 supports. 50.6% winrate Doesn't seem like she is nerfed completely into the ground. Just look at yuumi with 39.4% winrate, Tahm with 44.3% winrate, galio with 45.5% winrate or alistar with 47% winrate. Just because Sona had a 55% winrate in solo queue for the past few years and now she is at 50%, does NOT mean that she is unplayable.
Greeapa (EUNE)
: Alistar skin idea
I am still waiting for a female alistar skin, just for the line "You CAN milk those"
: nerf yuumi
Oh you are right. She doesn't have a 39% winrate in Aram, as in normals. She has a 44% winrate. I have heard that all op champions have a winrate below 44%.
: Troll or Troller?
Why the hell troller? A troller is type of a car.
SRT Nopliz (EUNE)
: Support, viable champs and builds.
> I feel like all of the above really encourages you to play enchanter supports like Soraka, Nami, Yuumi etc. Yuumi got hit really hard by this changes. Those changes doesn't encourage anyone to play Yuumi.
: what is a good fps to play smoothly?
"Smoothly" is always relative. If you just cap your fps at 100, after 2-3 weeks, it will seem smoothly for you. I have played on 80 for a long time and had no problem. It seems perfectly smoothly for me. Then I got up to 200 and now everything below 150 looks horrible and I can't play with it. Your main problem is the change of fps. If your computer is not good enough for high quality, then cap your fps and play for some weeks.
JustClone (EUNE)
: Man, you wrote wall of text with wrong math. Can we just take as example your games in the preseason? The 1/7 thresh game and the 2/8 senna. Senna... 35 minute game, only 2 items finished... total damage to champions 8k... Thresh... 28 minute game, 2 items finished... total damage to champions 7k... This is bullshit man. And you lie. But not to me, that does not matter. You are lieing to yourself. Look your gold curve... Steady 6.4k gold for 28 minutes. Same with senna... 7.1k gold... at 28 minute. You are behind all game, with little resources, underleveled. Now tell me that this was the case before pre season?
Please tell me where my maths are wrong. If I did wrong maths, then you should be able to say exactly where the maths in wrong in the text. Yes, I had two bad games. I had them before. Yes, things like that happened even before. If you test new things, you will most likely not be perfect. And if you look at those 2 games, you should also look at the other games. Like the Leona game, where I was full build quite early If you look at statistics, you should never just look at 2 or 3 games. You need to look at a huge amount of data. That's how statistics work. You are just looking at some unique cases and not at the theory behind everything. You need to look at everything and not just at "some games I played".
Zenith (EUNE)
: Why would they encourage passive play over active playing? 1 gold per 10 seconds means 270 gold over 45 minutes. That's nothing. Losing active gold gain means you're stuck on 3-item build at endgame while everyone else finishes their build. Because all gold gain is passive, you're reliant on **other players** in your team to be successful and hoping to get assist credit somewhere. Isn't the one thing everyone hates about support role being everyone's b**ch? This patch only reinforces that idea. Take away mana regen for support item _and_ ocean drake means mana-hungry supports like Sona are nerfed into oblivion. Have fun going back to base just to refill your mana bar. You won't get to buy anything because your gold income at 30 minutes is about 500 starter + 1000 gold active + 4070 gold passive = 5570 without assists. My typical build costs about 14k.
1. You are support, not a carry. Remember S1? You had shurelias, if you were rich at the end of a game. Or no item at all. (actually I loved playing support back then) 2.) Getting no money means that you actually have to play more active and not passive. You have to get kills or assists in LG. Your job is not to attack an enemy, just for 20 gold. You hav to kill them. 3.) I did not feel like anyones female dog in my games as support in this season. I got a lot more freedom with additional items in EG-MG and got much earlier than before to a 2-3 item powerspike. I had the feeling that in this time I were actually strong and could do way more than before. The only difference was Yuumi. I think her win rate will drop even further. Only after 30-40 minutes I noticed that I was weaker, if I did not manage to get a lot of assists. As Leona I had no problems being full build at the end of my games or at least have about the same items as before. Noone says that you are rich af as support in this season. Imo people just overexaggerate a ton. Same with the experience. People are always crying that the midlaner is 10 levels above them. (yes, I exaggerated a bit), even though it is about the same as before. There are just minimal changes, especially as the games end earlier, will probably have more kills because of drakes and sometimes the ADC will be alone instead of a solo laner after 15 minutes. Those are small changes, which you need to get used to, but it won't change much about most game patterns. (and if some champions like Yuumi or Sona are too weak now, those champions can be balanced afterwards and don't have to be balanced around an item anymore)
: > [{quoted}](name=Gnominator,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=cBR5tHfI,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-20T10:34:36.327+0000) > > You still get 1000 gold with the item, before it completes. > All the upgrades are for free. So let's look at relic shield. The upgrade costs were 450+950=1400. Do you understand that **after minute 20 the supports have no income** other than kills and assists .?. You want them to exchange their whole game gold income for 1400 gold .?.
I understand it and as I said above: You will get to a point (at around 25-30 minutes) when you would have more money with the old items. Even if you don't get any money through your support items, the new items will be more cost efficient than the old ones for a couple of more minutes. As the games will probably also be shorter than in earlier seasons, as dragons can get so %%%%ing strong, you will most likely be stronger for a long period of time than before and only in LG weaker. (probably just for 3-5 minutes at most in nearly all games... and if you get a kill or two because of your additional strength earlier, it might actually be even less time) I understand everything you said, but after a couple of games, I must say that I still get all my items with most supports. Relic shield supports as Leona still get a ton of money with assists and you can easily be full build at 35-40 minutes. I only had problems with champs like Yuumi, who got an incredible amount of money with the old spellthief's.
lechieur6 (EUW)
: no you take the old cost as a base . but the new item is not worth 1800 gold with no mana , cdr and damage on hit anymore. not even close to it.
Actually wioth 1800 you can buy items which give you all the stats you had before AND still have money left.
: so i played my first game with Leona and i gotta say i'm not bothered by the cut healing or by the gold income or by the exp cut... it still feels like normal tbh, i didn't notice anything weird or off that i was like mmm i could do this before but not now... the only thing i do think is that it's really stupid that we only have support items that generate damage.... so +X AD/AP, that's just weird i mean you don't need damage as a Leona support, you need to be able to go in and get out with at least half your hp still there.... so give us a support item that improves MR or Armor and i'm happy, the rest of the stats can stay as it won't make me play less or w/e
I also played as Leona yesterday and I agree with you. Feels kinda normal for most of the time. It was just a bit annoying that I couldn't help pushing in LG by lasthitting the minions. (perhaps something like: lasthitting will give you no gold, but give the closest ally all the gold?) would be nice. But I still got all my items. A pure defensive item would be really great, but I think they did this on purpose. All support items give roughly the same (just about a ruby crystal and an apmlifying tome difference) in LG - the only difference is how you get there. You can decide if you want to do it by last hitting minions and pushing the wave or attacking the enemy. That's the main difference I feel between the items.
: Just has my 1st game in new patch. As Zyra i got Frostfang before 8min, then Shard of true Ice upgrade got before 14 minutes. It was a sad game, as opponents either were really bad, or Lux support was afraid of being mana/CDR deprived to counter me.
Yes, but you did not pay for the upgrades. If you count in the costs upgrades, it normally takes until 25 minutes (roughly) before you have less money than before.
: tbh i hadn't really read all of the patch notes but now that i have, i don't think it'll be an issue for me as i rarely go above 50 CS in an entire game length anyway with Leona xD sometimes i do when the game takes like an hour but the average is 35~40 CS so i won't have the problem with the cut down gold anyway and then it is nicer i get the item for free yes, i have always felt like i was somewhat behind w.r.t. other lanes and such especially if you're failing your lane but maybe this balances it out a bit better so i geuss i'll just have to experience and see how it goes with my beloved Leona
Another Leona main! :D (I play Leona since S2 and she is my fallback champion whenever I don't know what do play) If I look at the brutal changes to dragons (damn, they seem strong), I think that the games will probably end a lot quicker. Snowballing seems easier and early fights round the dragons seem more important. The elder buff seems like riot's version of saying "No matter what you do... Win the %%%%ing game now". xD So it seems even less important, that supports won't get a lot of money in LG. We will see if I am correct or not, but I personally don't think that Leona&co will get a lot weaker. Also roaming as a support might get more rewarding, as the ADC will get a lot more experience, so even if you don't manage to kill someone, you will at least get a high level ADC out of it. :D
CJXander (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Gnominator,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=cBR5tHfI,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-20T10:34:36.327+0000) > > You still get 1000 gold with the item, before it completes. > All the upgrades are for free. So let's look at relic shield. The upgrade costs were 450+950=1400. > > Sp you will only have less money than before the patch, if you got more than 2400 gold with relic shield. The other money items are similar to this. > How often did you get 2400 gold with one support item? I don't think that it happened so often. > And as you won't have to spend early money on your support item, you can spend your money on something else and get other items earlier. The lack of CDR and mana regen are bigger than the gold cut, i will simply switch to jungle or adc.
Look at the comment I copied above. You will only really be hit by the missing CDR in LG, as you can simply use the money to buy CDR, mana re AND still have money left to buy something else until then. Also people always rage about things like that... "Omg, ADC is now unplayable, because of preseason"... "Jungle is now useless thanks to preseason."... Every year people say that everything is now completely useless or op in preseason.
: you have to admit though that even if they make the item free, they're gonna cut down the gold earnings of the role that already got the least gold of everyone in the game but does have the highest responsibility in the first place xD sounds fishy to me tbh
I wrote some thoughts about that in another topic, I will just copy them here. You can see that the money cut actually doesn't really matter in most games. It will only hit you in late game. Please note that I am a support main since S1, so I am actually directly hit by that. So it's not just an "omg, nerf all supports, they are too strong, I want to be the only strong person"^^ Let's have a look at the money of spell thief (I won't look at the others, as it would take too much time to look at everything) I won't take into consideration that new spellthief's will get upgraded instantly if you are 5 seconds out of combat and for the old you have to go back. (I wiill take the optimum, so old one gets upgraded instantly, which makes it actually stronger than it truly was) Currently: Costs: 400 Tribute (maximal) 15 every 10 seconds 2 every 10 seconds So you can get 17 every 10 seconds. So after 294.11 seconds, you can get the first Upgrade and Afterwards you can get 18 every 10 seconds, so after another 277.77 seconds you can get the final upgrade. This means that after around 572 seconds you can have 1000 gold because of this item AND a fully upgraded support item. Let's say that you start stacking at 2:30, then you will have it fully stacked at 14:32. So you will have: 60 AP 150 HP 1000 gold (+passive Gold: about 2500) Old version: Cost: 400 11 gold every 10 seconds (maximum) 2 golds every 10 seconds (passive) That means you start with 13 every 10 seconds. With the passive gold bonus, you will get 32 every 10 seconds. That means if you play optimal you can get your upgrade after 140 seconds (same starting time as above, this means at 4:50). Paying 450 you god frostfang: 22 every 10 seconds (if always attacked perfectly) 2 every 10 seconds (passive) Your support item will be at 182 gold. To get to 500, you will need 132.5 seconds. So you will have wards at 7:03 seconds. At 14:32 (when the new version is fully stacked), you will have another 1080 gold through the support item and 855 through passive gold. This means: Roughly you will have wards at about 7:20 with the new version, while a bit earlier (7:00) with the old version. The old version could be a little bit faster, if you get a very early kill or assist, but you also have to go back for it, what you don't need with the new version. So you get wards at about the same time. At 14:30: New version: 60 AP 150 HP 3500 gold Old version (without final upgrade) 20 AP 50% manareg 10% CDR 1935 gold Old Version (with final upgrade) 35 AP 10% CDR 200 HP 50% mana reg 985 gold If you compare it to frostfang, it has 40 AP more, 150 HP more, 10% CDR less and 50% manareg less. So raw statswise I would say that the new one is stronger. Also I believe that 10CDR and 50% manareg is not worth 1600 gold. (you can easily buy it with tat amount of gold) And I believe that with 40 AP will help you make about the same damage as you did before with the bonus magic damage you got on attacking. (especially as it counts for every attack, not only the first three ones) And you also must take into consideration that you have more wards from now on (which you onld had after upgrading the item fully in the old version) So currently, you will have about 1600 gold more with the new version. But from now on it won't give you anymore gold trhough attacking, just the 3 gold per 10 seconds. If you continue using your OLD frostfang perfectly, you will get 24 gold per 10 seconds, so every 10 seconds, you will get 21 gold closer. Hence you will be at the same amount of gold 760 seconds later, so around 27:10 you could (if everything works perfectly for you) have the same amount of gold than before. If you upgrade your support item fully, it will obviously take even more time and the point will be between 30 and 40 minutes. Obviously some other things might change the outcome of this theoretical approach. If an enemy survives with 10 hp with the new version, it would make the old item stronger. If you won't do everything perfectly (like having three stacks on your item for a few seconds, which will obviously happen frmo time to time, especially, when you go back and buy items or if you lasthit a minion, which also happens from time to tim, if you are playing Zyra) The first support item upgrade will come later, which is actually in favor of the new spellthief's. You are correct, that in the early game you are weaker, as you don't have the damage passive on the item. But as soon as you have a first upgrade, you will have more AP (with the additional money, you can always just buy AP items), which increases your damage and it will make you stronger than before. Reaching LG and full items will probably be more difficult than before. So we basically get: EG (until your first back and sup item upgrade at around 8-10 minutes): weaker MG (8-30 minutes): stronger LG: weaker (especially as you can't get 40% CDR as easy as before) Obviously that will be good for some supports and bad for other types of supports. But champions were always changing roles, depending on how everything fits for them. If support doesn't fit for Zyra anymore and she gets buffed, then we will maybe see Zyra midlane again. Champions like MF might be stronger as support again, as she can use the new items. Galio might also be mov viable as support now, as relic shield gives some AP. (If I did some maths wrong... tell me and please forgive me. Everyone does some mistakes from time to time:))
JustClone (EUNE)
: This "upgrades" is the same trap for low elo noobs with poor math knowledge as GP5 items/runes had. It gives you something small, at a later stage in the game, that cannot compensate the impact on raw stats at earlier stages of the game.
We will see how it turns out.^^ As a mathematic student who is currenly working on his master thesis, I believe that I have at least some knowledge about mathematics. ;) (even though I must say that we mathematicians actualle hate calculating stuff, as calculating has nothing to do with maths :P ) Especially as nearly everyone in high elo and in pro plays bought the GP10 items. They were incredible strong. And I wouldn't say that pro players are low elo noobs. :D Fnatic actually won first wolds, as they were the only team who perfected how to play with a support, who just had GP10 items and wards. All the american teams played without GP10 and got stomped because of that. So if you are talking about money... Let's have a look at the money of spell thief (I won't look at the others, as it would take too much time to look at everything) I won't take into consideration that new spellthief's will get upgraded instantly if you are 5 seconds out of combat and for the old you have to go back. (I wiill take the optimum, so old one gets upgraded instantly, which makes it actually stronger than it truly was) Currently: Costs: 400 Tribute (maximal) 15 every 10 seconds 2 every 10 seconds So you can get 17 every 10 seconds. So after 294.11 seconds, you can get the first Upgrade and Afterwards you can get 18 every 10 seconds, so after another 277.77 seconds you can get the final upgrade. This means that after around 572 seconds you can have 1000 gold because of this item AND a fully upgraded support item. Let's say that you start stacking at 2:30, then you will have it fully stacked at 14:32. So you will have: 60 AP 150 HP 1000 gold (+passive Gold: about 2500) Old version: Cost: 400 11 gold every 10 seconds (maximum) 2 golds every 10 seconds (passive) That means you start with 13 every 10 seconds. With the passive gold bonus, you will get 32 every 10 seconds. That means if you play optimal you can get your upgrade after 140 seconds (same starting time as above, this means at 4:50). Paying 450 you god frostfang: 22 every 10 seconds (if always attacked perfectly) 2 every 10 seconds (passive) Your support item will be at 182 gold. To get to 500, you will need 132.5 seconds. So you will have wards at 7:03 seconds. At 14:32 (when the new version is fully stacked), you will have another 1080 gold through the support item and 855 through passive gold. This means: Roughly you will have wards at about 7:20 with the new version, while a bit earlier (7:00) with the old version. The old version could be a little bit faster, if you get a very early kill or assist, but you also have to go back for it, what you don't need with the new version. So you get wards at about the same time. At 14:30: New version: 60 AP 150 HP 3500 gold Old version (without final upgrade) 20 AP 50% manareg 10% CDR 1935 gold Old Version (with final upgrade) 35 AP 10% CDR 200 HP 50% mana reg 985 gold If you compare it to frostfang, it has 40 AP more, 150 HP more, 10% CDR less and 50% manareg less. So raw statswise I would say that the new one is stronger. Also I believe that 10CDR and 50% manareg is not worth 1600 gold. (you can easily buy it with tat amount of gold) And I believe that with 40 AP will help you make about the same damage as you did before with the bonus magic damage you got on attacking. (especially as it counts for every attack, not only the first three ones) And you also must take into consideration that you have more wards from now on (which you onld had after upgrading the item fully in the old version) So currently, you will have about 1600 gold more with the new version. But from now on it won't give you anymore gold trhough attacking, just the 3 gold per 10 seconds. If you continue using your OLD frostfang perfectly, you will get 24 gold per 10 seconds, so every 10 seconds, you will get 21 gold closer. Hence you will be at the same amount of gold 760 seconds later, so around 27:10 you could (if everything works perfectly for you) have the same amount of gold than before. If you upgrade your support item fully, it will obviously take even more time and the point will be between 30 and 40 minutes. Obviously some other things might change the outcome of this theoretical approach. If an enemy survives with 10 hp with the new version, it would make the old item stronger. If you won't do everything perfectly (like having three stacks on your item for a few seconds, which will obviously happen frmo time to time, especially, when you go back and buy items or if you lasthit a minion, which also happens from time to tim, if you are playing Zyra) The first support item upgrade will come later, which is actually in favor of the new spellthief's. You are correct, that in the early game you are weaker, as you don't have the damage passive on the item. But as soon as you have a first upgrade, you will have more AP (with the additional money, you can always just buy AP items), which increases your damage and it will make you stronger than before. Reaching LG and full items will probably be more difficult than before. So we basically get: EG (until your first back and sup item upgrade at around 8-10 minutes): weaker MG (8-30 minutes): stronger LG: weaker (especially as you can't get 40% CDR as easy as before) Obviously that will be good for some supports and bad for other types of supports. But champions were always changing roles, depending on how everything fits for them. If support doesn't fit for Zyra anymore and she gets buffed, then we will maybe see Zyra midlane again. Champions like MF might be stronger as support again, as she can use the new items. Galio might also be mov viable as support now, as relic shield gives some AP. (If I did some maths wrong... tell me and please forgive me. Everyone does some mistakes from time to time:))
Infernape (EUW)
: It's not just 1150. It's effectively longer because of the lollipop effect which also got increased. Blitzcrank needs a rework. His kit was literally not designed for the support role. He was shoehorned into it because of his Q.
> It's not just 1150. It's effectively longer because of the lollipop effect which also got increased. Thresh and all the others have the same effect. My points still stand: It is only have a teemo more than Thresh&Co. And Blitz is support since S1. He was designed as a time, when there wasn't even a support role (same as soraka or other champions... back then there was no fixed meta and "duo lane" did not mean that just one person got all the money). I think he fits perfectly fine as a support.
CJXander (EUNE)
: After 6 years of supporing, i'm ditching the role
> no gold after item completion. You still get 1000 gold with the item, before it completes. All the upgrades are for free. So let's look at relic shield. The upgrade costs were 450+950=1400. Sp you will only have less money than before the patch, if you got more than 2400 gold with relic shield. The other money items are similar to this. How often did you get 2400 gold with one support item? I don't think that it happened so often. And as you won't have to spend early money on your support item, you can spend your money on something else and get other items earlier.
JustClone (EUNE)
: Man, if you are "happy" to see champions "nerfed to the ground" ... Why do you take part in something that is clearly discussion for balance? I mean, if your idea of fair game is to remove the champion completely and feel happy about it... You clearly cannot understand what is at stake here.
I think you missunderstood me. I think that those champions are great champions - I just don't like them as support. As midlaner or marksmen, everything would be fine for me. I think that as support they are antifun to play and therefore they should be balanced in a way, which makes them weaker as support, such that they can be buffed to be strong on other lanes again. Many champions got that treatment: They were broken, because of a rune/lane setup/item (I will just say X). They basically had to use X, as they are broken with it, but useless without it. Then riot removed x, because that gave them the freedom to buff the champions in another way and give them actually more unique playstyles and more possibilities in runes/items/whatever. I think that is a good way. Just remember the ardent meta. Ardent was completely broken and either all ardent champions would have needed a nerf or ardent needed a really hard nerf and a small rework. They decided to change ardent, as they did not want to reduce all healing and shieldung supports to "use ardent or be useless". I think it will be the same with spellthiefs. There were a ton of champions who used spellthiefs, even though they weren't really meant for it. So spellthiefs needed some changes. Also I think you forgot that they won't be nerfed so hard. Those champions are great with some ap and they will be able to build much more AP in the preseason, as they don't have to pay for the support item upgrades.
: connecting honour to rewards.
It was always clear that you need to fulfill two criterias: - be gold 4 or higher - be honour level 2 or higher If one of those fails, then you won't get anything. If you are not honour level 2 or higher and feel robbed, should everyone who is not gold 4 or higher, but is honour level 2 feel also robbed? As they also just managed to fulfill one of the two constraints?
psygene (EUNE)
: season 10
You can also play ranked in pre-season. So you don't have to wait until the season starts.
Rinart73 (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kitty Cat Nap,realm=EUW,application-id=ETj6EdvQ,discussion-id=E6PEOF7V,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-18T09:55:55.600+0000) > > dark harvest works as intended, it also procs from illaoi soul steal. This makes no sense - clone is not a real champion that poses threat (especially in case of Neeko). So what, we can also proc Dark Harvest from Shaco clones? Leblanc clone? Annie's bear? Yorick's ult? https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Champion_summoned_units > A Decoy is a copy of a champion that is only considered a champion for targeting purposes, otherwise considered a pet. I could understand getting basic runes like attack-speed proc from pets, but not something powerful like Dark Harvest.
If dark harvest would not work with those clones, it would be really easy to find out who the clone is. Just hit it once... if dark harvest procs, then it it the real person, if it doesn't, it is the clone. You can also use spellthiefs and all other "hit on champion" abilities on it. If only some worked and some worked not, it woud make no sense. It is way clearer for the player if either everything or nothing works. A clone is in every regard like a normal champion... you just don't get 300 money for killing it. The interaction with neeko and yuumi Q is probably a bug - when I played against neeko the last time I used my Q on her clone to get the money and it worked perfectly fine.^^
: Names for thresh mains
: This is a first time offense on this account.
You know that all the rules are MUCH harsher at the beginning of an account? You know that the rules are much harsher on smurfs/second accounts, if the first account has already been punished?
: Revert blitzcrank Q range.
So you mean that every hook champion, who has a ton of other stuff in their kits should have a higher hook range than a champion, who has the hook and basically nothing else? Thresh hook is 1100, Nautilus hook is 1100, Pyke hook is 1100, Blitz 1150... Blitz has only half a teemo more range than all the other champions and all the other champions have way more in their kits than Blitzcrank. If all hook champions are as good as hooking as Blitz AND have more in their kit... why should someone play Blitz? (beside that he is a bigger noobstomper than the other champs)
JustClone (EUNE)
: Man, without any insult intended... You are very passive player. And you play normal games, in the low elo ranks. There is nothing competitive there. You hardly ever pull any signifficant damage. Even with champions as Sena and Yuumi, who spend the early game spam poke Q. And you end up 0/12, 0/7 and so on... Sure you will not care about the changes. To be honest I do not know why you buy spellthief at first place... Imagine if you play against people, who are determined to win the game? But then, there are people like me who play agressive. And want to be rewarded for the risk we take. You understand this, right? Sitting on top of your adc is one thing, getting in close range to deal auto-attacks and having to constantly skirmish is something else... I managed to pull 83% win rate with AP Varus support in ranked on a smurf, I will not even comment what happens if I pick lux, xerath or zyra(champions that I actually know how to play). To be honest Zyra early game numbers are entirely focused on the tribute damage proc, and the fact that she can proc it very reliably very often. We are talking for two completely different playstyles, in two completely different universes... Please try to understand that.
Aaand here we go again :D Yes, we play different games, but does that automatically mean that only yours is important and mine isn't? Let's just say that most people play in my universe... why should my be ignored, just beacuse you are more aggressive? I could also say "Doooh... but you play in EUNE and I in EUW!!!!11111 So my low elo is your high elo!!!11111111!11".... but I personally don't like those arguments. I have crushed teams of full diamonds and also got crushed by silvers in tournaments. I know some dia1 players, who are strong individual players, but have no idea of macro and just got there, as they crushed lanes. I think the changes will lead to a more macro oriented game, at least for support. (which is in my opinion good) But we will see how it will turn out.^^ Also I am always trying to win, currently I just don't have enough time to play a lot and hence I got worse in the last few months and some games with such KDA just happen, I will explain it further below. But wifrst as you were talking about my Yuumi damage: 57% winrate in normals. (which I mostly play, as I don't have time for ranked) against a somewhat 45% winrate on general? Or was it 42%? 5.00 vs 4.83 KDA 3957 vs 2965 damage per death 15.6% vs 13.1% damage share 1.51 vs 1.33 damage per gold 284 vs -263 early gold advantage 61.1% vs 50.6% objet control ratio 72.8 vs 59.6 vision score per hour 1.16 vs 0.87 roam dominance score 29.2% vs 26.2% kill conversion ratio I am in nearly all aspects better than the average Yuumi, (also better than the average high elo yuumi) especially at the damage part. Senna is another story to talk about. I haven't played ADCs since... S1. ADCs are something compeltely new for me (especially as I am normally a tank player) If you look closer to my games (and not just the first 3 games) you will see that those 0/12 games are not the average. They can happen to everyone. Also to my defense: I did not want to play at that moment. I was tired as %%%% and just wanted to go to bed. But it was a 5 man premade and we just wanted to have some fun as a team. Playing a squishy role you are not used to, while used to playing tanks (or other save characters) and you are tired as hell? Such games happen then. I would never have played such a game with randoms.^^ About the Yuumi game: Have you just looked at my score or actually at the game? You might have noticed that only our jungler had a better KDA. Every other player was even worse in that game. If you are on a person and he dies... well then you are most likely also dead as Yuumi. > Sitting on top of your adc is one thing, getting in close range to deal auto-attacks and having to constantly skirmish is something else... As I said above: I am usually playing tanks and playmakers. I don't think that I am always sitting on top of my ADC. ;) (Leona is my main since her release in S2) And as I said above: I think that it will benefit roaming supports and supporting champs like Soraka or Lulu. Both types of champion types I actually like to play.^^ > I managed to pull 83% win rate with AP Varus support in ranked on a smurf, I will not even comment what happens if I pick lux, xerath or zyra(champions that I actually know how to play). Congrats and now what?^^ Also I am quite happy if Zyra Support gets nerfed in the ground. I personally never liked her as support. I know that this is personal preference, but personally does not mind her being nerfed. As you said you play in another universe... and for that universe the changes might be bad. But for another universe the changes might be good. So perhaps some of the players have to change the way they approach the game. Is that bad? No, it has happened before. I played in metas, where Supports were pure ward bots (S1), metas like the Ardent meta, the meta, where Xerath and Fiddle were really strong, pure tank support meta... I always had my mains, which I also played no matter what meta there was, but then there were also the other champions, which I adapted to, whenever there were changes. This is how league works. But also as I said above: NO SUPPORT BOUGHT DORAN'S RING IN S2. And no support farmed in S2. :D At least no support who knew how to play the game. It was like that in the first half of S1, but afterwards, it was always similar to today. And it won't change through the changes in the next preseason.
: Acension Game mode > URF
Ascension > URF Arurf > URF Nemesis > URF Star Guardian > URF NURF > URF Hexakill > URF OFA > URF I would love to see OFA, Hexakill or any other game mode like Ascension again. Urf was nice when it came out for the first time, but afterwards it got more and more boring.
JustClone (EUNE)
: Preseason support changes.
I won't answer to everything, as I don't want to flame a system, I haven't played yet. I think it can actually work out pretty well overall. It basically means that zoning people from the farm will get even more important. Also roaming as asupport can get really rewarding for the ADC. (perhaps they will flame the supports less, if they roam. > line is shit. For one it does not do any damage. Big difference in early trading/poke. Yeah, but you know... upgrades are free? Without any nerfes, it would be broken af. > And bring back S2 duo bot-lane mechanics. Splitting farm with my adc In S2 it was basically the same as today. If you knew how to play, you did not farm as support. A support just bought his gold income items (5 gold per 10 seconds items) and then just bought wards. That was even in the S1 world championship the dominant strategy. Also I don't have a problem if the botlane takes some of the jungle camps once in a while. Actually the botlane already does that, As a support main I am looking forward to the changes. :)
: Am I the only one who sees a problem with sennas design?
> last time we got a champion who can't be revealed(high akali), She can be revealed. As soon as you step in the mist you see her and all others.
: Suggestion
That is already possible for a long time. Rightclick on the champion and mark him "favorite as midlaner", then he will be in your midlane pool. (don't know if it possible to do it before a game, but when you are in the lobby you can mark them for your future games... so just write down all champs and do it while you are in a lobby)
: locked champion pool for every role
No. A few years ago Lux support was considered a troll pick. Then it got meta. For multiple years, Annie support was basically never seen. For a short period of time Morgana and Zyra jungle were actually really strong. Even Taliyah jungle was a troll pick for a long time. How do you want to decide which is troll and which is not? Normally "If it works, then it is not troll"... but how do you know if something works, before somebody tries it? You ahve to try it first and only afterwards you can decide if it works or not.
: Why is a ton of bruiser/tank itens being removed but mages items are untouched?
Well, there is a simple reason for it: Whan is a champion strong and what is he strong at? Spear of shojin gives powerspikes, which aren't meant for that champion, which makes it hard to play against it. Just imagine a Doran's item, which gives Kassadin a really strong Lvl 1-5, such that he wins most trades at those levels. Kassadin is meant to be a LG champion, which has to survive EG and afterwards can take over the game. If we have an item, which changes him to an EG champion, it will be hard to balance it, as you don't need champions, which are strong in EG, as you can make Kassadin also strong in EG AND be strong in LG. It is the same for the spear. It gives champions strengths, which they weren't meant to have. On the other hand an item like Sorcerer's shoes or luden's increases already existing strengthes, which is something compeltely different. (even though it does not mean that it must be balanced!)
: Is a permaban revertable?
You can ask the support. But if you flamed, it doesn't matter what happened ingame. You are the only one who is responsoble for your actions. As you probably had a 14 day ban already, even the slightiest form of flame or other way of breaking the rules is enough for a perma ban.
: Welp this game is dissappointing
Some of my friends never said a word and got punished. LMAO.
: Why not just removal of time penalty. I don't see why this penalty still exists. LP decrease is enough. It looks like you got yourself almost whole lose, -10LP is a lot. Same for your proposed "vote". Why vote, if there is still LP penalty, it is the same as dodge by one player. Why cooldown, if there is nothing to abuse, dodge mechanics exists already.
And what happens to people in bronce or iron? The penalty doesn't really punish people in low elo (why should an iron 4 people care about his elo, if he does not want to climb?) Also if you have a low elo smurf, you can easily gain some LP and whenever you don't want to play a game, just leave it and play on a different account. As you want it to be a low elo smurf, you can easily stay low elo that way. If there is no time penalty, games in lower elo there will be tons of additional leavers.
: i think ive played over 200 games since the ban before, im sure of it, last time i got banned was more than 1 year ago. also yes, ezreal has 0 impact unless it gets couple of kills and rushes a trinity, but this guy was going korean build iceborne and doing legit 0 dmg, losing to enemy adc with doran shield with our jungler and me asw, free 3-0 at lvl 4... enemy came back in lane with a BF sword, and braum just flashed passive me i had no flash and died under turret, and tats it, i went mid and gave 2 assists to zed, went top gave 1 to kyle, closed 0-3-13, but enemies were too much ahead, our jungler dying to enemy adc, then it died at jungle camps and simply couldn't get back into the game. i don't rly care, was going next game cba, but then i got suspended and when i loked intto it it was permanent, and i was like WTF ? WHAT THE FCK? perma for what ?
Time (like "a year") does not matter at all. The amount of games are important. If you played 200 games in a year or 200 in a week is basically the same for your punishment level. Also your punishment level might still be the same as before. There are basically 3 possibilities: 1.) Your punishment level sinks (only if you did not do anything "bad"... of course it will sink faster, if you are positive in the games) 2.) Your punishment level is still the same as before (if you did some bad things, but not enough to get a punishment) 3.) You get punished (if you do things which bad enough) 200 games aren't that much. If you play about 1 game a day, it means that you played half a year. I think that this is not enough to get a clean account again (getting from a 14 day ban to "punishment level 0" again), even if you are the friendliest person in the world. If you were never neutral/friendly enough for your level to sink (possibility 2), then it can quite easily happen that you are still on the same punishment level as before. And for that possibility such a chat log is more than enough. But as said by others, you can of course try to contact riot support.
crime0eye (EUW)
: game experience
> first of all the tutorial is so low based, u only learn the champs I can assure you that for beginners the tutorials are already rather tricky. If you never played a moba before, the information given in the tutorial are overwhelming. You learn item builds while playing. That's the reason why you have to play some games (getting to lvl 30) before playing ranked. People need time to learn things. Giving them 10.000 different things at the beginning won't help. > ow and as for tutorial there is no support champs if u didn't notice maybe a reason there ain't player that like to play support role ? That is not the reason. Even back in S1, before we had that tutorial (and you just played ashe with thornmail in tutorial) noone wanted to play support, while other roles were all played. Actually as far as I notice it, we have a higher support player base than ever before.
PayPray (EUW)
: Sorcery Tree
The main problem with "poke"-runes is that they will always feel underwhelming, even if they are op af. Just imagine hitting one spell 10 times within 2 minutes. Every time you deal 10 damage. You won't even notice the damage at first, but 100 damage over 2 minutes is still 100 damage. Now imagine that you have a spell, such that you can deal 100 damage in an all in every 2 minutes. You will notice that at once and it will feel stronger than the first option. Just because something feels weak, doesn't mean it is weak. Imo your main problem is that you just look at team fights, while those runes are extremely strong in EG. You poke the enemy out of lane and therefore he has less farm/experience and is weakjer in team fights. This also means that those runes are extremly strong on supports. If you buff those runes, harassing supports like Soraka, Yuumi, Sona, Karma, will get a huge buff. Also aery can give a shield to allied units, which helped me saving my allies quite a few times. If sorcerer was so weak, then mages should also be more successful with other runes, shoudln't they? Also most runes have a niche in which they are strong. Just look at cleptomancy, which also can't be used by everyone. Ashe has 50.4%/51.1% winrate with comet. (depending on second runes) Brand has 49.4%/50.4% winrate with comet. Ahri has a 51.1% winrate with comet. Cassio uses phase rush over 98% of all games(!) The most used fiddle rune is comet. Gnar used aery for a long period of time. (currently not anymore) Janna uses aery or comet in over 95% of her games. Lulu uses aery or comet in over 90% of her games. Nami uses aery or comet in over 90% of her games. Morgana uses aery or comet in over 85% of her games. Orianna uses aery in over 95% of her games of her games (and has a better winrate than using electrocute) Soraka and Sona uses Aery or Comet in about 80% of her games... I won't continue here. As a squishy support (which is not Bard, Lux), sorcerer is extremely powerful and the strongest rune, especially as those supports have to poke the enemy in EG. The smaller runes are also rather important. Nimbus cloak can be used very effectively for champions like Cassio, Gnar (to enga, Soraka, Sona (to run away), Manaflow is always useful, scorch is really strong for supports... Actually I think that the sorcerer and inspiration are currently the best trees. (not the strongest, but for me the most interesting) Buffing sorcerer will always be problematic, as champions like Sona will get even stronger in Solo queue and destroy everything.
Déus Kun (EUW)
: how do I think they did? I think that no new challengers come, i think every challenger been there since multiple seasons and that when they managed to keep impproving and to keep climbing that there actually was a base to do so, ofc it is easy for them to climb everythinbg below challenger because they are so much better, but how can u improve if you lose 90% of your loses because on feeders or afks . I cant rly climb which means there is no increase of niveau i could adopt to.
A friend of mine started playing ranked last season. He is diamond now. Another friend started the game 2 years ago. He is platinum now. Of course you can't win or carry every game, as there are four more players. I think the best way to descrsibe ranked is: 40% you will loose, no matter what you do. 40% you will win, no matter what you do. (obviously beside running it down) 20% are important and your performance will decide the game Those last 20% are the games, which are important. Those will decide if you climb the ladder or not. Of course it feels rather unsatisfying, if in 80% of the games you don't really matter (and you don't know what will happen before the game), but that's just how it is. If you are a challenger smurf, it will obviously be a bit different. It won't be 40%/40%/20%, but probably something like 30%/30%/40% or something like that. But
: Can you add me on Discord? imagine#0001 (If you use it). Anyways, about the mental health thing. I think that's just the thing. Why not just ban the instigator? I have ADHD and I can sit and play league all day. If me or someone else performs poorly, I don't care but the moment you flame me or direct hate towards me? That sets a fuse on me and I go hell loose. Yes, that's personal but what it also is is unneeded. So many less players would get banned for flaming back if Riot just took the instigators and banned them because they are the ones that make these types of situations arise. If you don't agree with that then I don't know what to say; they're called instigators for a reason. About the Alt+F4 thing. I'm talking about **punishments**. Literally anything that can be deemed as a negative impact against the victim. I think being forced to leave a game by a toxic player is a punishment in itself, let alone being temp-banned for doing it. Not only do you have the temp-ban but you also have to wait for your game to finish before you even get to the temp-ban. Now about the IFS System itself. I really don't know how it flags people, currently. I mean, on multiple accounts I've typed numerous things of varying (subjectively) toxic comments. I mean I've been chat-restricted at level 4 for telling someone to "stop %%%%ing inting". Nothing else was said after that because they listened so I had nothing to be angry about. What triggered it? That's the confusion. I appreciate that you will try to upgrade your analogies for me (seriously, thank you ahaha). However, I just don't believe any of them will truly convince me. It's nothing against you or the way you word it, it's just that I think are better alternatives and ways to approach this mess that I believe IFS to be. I wasn't trying to appeal to anyone with emotion; it was just a top-of-my-head quick example that everyone knows all too well (thanks, Mr. Trump). So, yes you are wrong but being wrong isn't the focus of our discussion so I guess that paragraph is concluded and finished with. Onto the next. Most optimal? Not in my mind, no. While, yes, I agree it's an efficient **short-term** fix, I believe something else could be put in place to truly weed out the "ranks" of toxicity. I just think that people are being punished for something they really can't control. Again, referring to the mental health thing, I personally can't just *get over it*. Sure, maybe I'm not putting myself in the best environment but should I have to stop playing because Riot are too complacent? Also, I believe the language filter is a complete hoax. Forgive me for sounding pedantic but I just think they put it there as a false positive for the go-ahead on "you can swear". I say this because I genuinely believe swear words are triggered in IFS. I'm going to be completely honest - if you couldn't tell already but for anyone else reading this and is confused why I bring this topic up - this isn't my first account. Shocker. However, I believe if the IFS had some revisions to it and Riot listened to the community for once, I would still have my first or second account. I know you might think they listen to their community but I just don't see it happening. They only listen to the pros and it's like... well, you want a larger pro community but you only cater to the current pros? How does that work? How will anyone make progress if their voices are drown out by the larger faces of league? For example, Akali. She's a complete monster in lane if you know what you're doing with her. However, if you're new to her, you're probably going to run it down. I don't say this for self-satisfaction because I'm good with her, it's just the case with her. On the other hand, Mordekaiser. I mean, what the %%%% is he? Low-mid elos can't play against him - regardless of whether the Mordekaiser themselves have experience. Why? Because the game is completely catered to the professional scene. It just all adds up too well. Akali is a load of bull if you're good at her. Who's good at her? Pros. Azir is absolutely insane if you're good at him. Who's good at him? Only Faker. I joke but you get what I'm trying to put across here? They don't listen to their community and I feel like that by itself also puts people off. (I also apologise for going off-topic but just another mini-thought I had when trying to make my point).
> but the moment you flame me or direct hate towards me? That sets a fuse on me and I go hell loose. Why don't you disable the chat? I have a bipolar disorder and whenever I have a manic phase, I do exactly that: Disbale the chat and continue playing. That way I can play even with my mental problems and don't harm anyone else. > Balancing champions It is a bit more difficult than you make it seem here. Riot does NOT balance only for pro players. They also balance for solo queue, just not for iron, but gold/plat. Why do they do it? If a champion is 5% stronger than another one, you will never notice it in iron. Iron players mostly don't know how to play against a champion or how to play it. But in pro play, it will make a huge difference. Just take paper rock scissors. Imagine that you know that the enemy always takes paper. In pro play you would always take scissor to counter it. In low elo, people will randomly take anything and even though they could completely crush the enemy, they will just win 50% of the times. You can easily make similar comparrisons for League. Just look at Master Yi. It is easy to counter him, if you hit him with CC. That's the counter to him. In low elo, many teams don't use their CC for Master Yi. Is he broken because of that? Nope, people just don't counter him. In low elo you can play every champion and you can carry with every single champion. Even build paths mostly does't matter. So why should riot balance for iron? If you look at plat+, the game is way more balanced, as people know how to counter champions and how to play their champions. Another example is blitzcrank: In low elo I can just try to hook and if I don't hit, I can continue playing aggressive. The enemies will run away, as they fear that I hook again (even though my hook has a 20 second cooldown). So I have a ton of lane dominance, as the emies don't play well. In plat+ I can't do that. I hook and after that the enemies start playing aggressive, as I can't do shit afterwards. Now there is the question: should Blitz get nerfed, as people in low elo just don't punish him for mistakes or is he fine, as he might have big strengths, but also huge weaknesses (and people can punish them). Also saying that riot just balances for pro play is simply wrong. The only times, when they balance just for competitive, is before worlds. (and I think that this is fine) Everytime else they balance for solo queue ( as said mostly for gold/plat+) and for pro play. If a champion is completely broken in either of the two, he gets nerfed. This way there will be less "must pick/bans" for both. But obviously this will make some champions also too weak for either competitive or solo queue. I think that this is a good way. I prefer a game, where 90% of all champions are viable in soloqueue/competitive and 10% are too weak( (but those 10% are viable in the other one) over a game in which 10% are op and 90% are weaker.
Déus Kun (EUW)
: Ranked math absolutly not working?
Not me, but quite a few friends of mine are plat+, some even dia+. (let's be honest: I don't play a lot, if you are better than your rank, then you just need to play a lot and over time you will get to plat) How do you think thatchallengers (who smurf) got there at the first place? They also had one account before they were challengers and managed to get up there.
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