Vistha Kai (EUNE)
: >And people can stop reading after this point. There are obviously new player coming in constantly because the player base isn't getting smaller. That means new players are replacing the ones who leave. If you applied some brain there, you'd know I wrote there "barely any new players" not "no new players". >While on some servers you can see a massive increase. As an example, last season, the vietnamese playerbase blew up like crazy. THEY MADE A NEW SERVER. Of course there are "new" players playing there. Except that before they were playing on the Southeast Asia server. Just like how all Russians played on EUW and EUNE before they got their own server. I wouldn't be surprised if a significant number of players played on both servers, inflating numbers even more. >Everyone knows that China has by far the largest player base so looking at western regions and their ranked player bases isn't going to be a valid source for your claims. Not to mention, clear majority of the player base doesn't play ranked. Majority of players don't play ranked? Ohohoho, you have NO idea. The API used by Chinese LoL actually allowed to see exact numbers for both ranked and unranked players. The percentage of ranked players there was hovering between 70% and 90%. The exception was the "tutorial" server which had like 60% of ranked accounts. It also had, iirc, over 80 million players when Riot claimed 67 million, thus Chinese servers were NOT included in Riot's numbers. Also, the ranked playerbase outside of China was at the time 10-11 millions. So I'm expected to believe that over 50 millions players in the "West" never touched ranked? Get a grip. The Riot API rules don't allow tracking of non-ranked accounts for a reason. >Also, you are talking about a "not even 10% increase" but we all know you didn't track the numbers. You are just making that up. I guarantee you there was an increase larger than that. Check the internet archive and compare the numbers, but first stop sperging about something you have clearly no idea about. One of either EUW or EUNE saw the biggest influx of "new" players, while NA lost somewhat between 10-20% ranked player base in the same time frame. Those are only "made up" numbers, because I don't have the text file where I had exact numbers and by exact I mean every single ranked account recognized by OP.GG. >Yes NA has apparently lost some players but your numbers are pulled out of your ass again. > >You aren't being realistic with your arguments, which effectively only makes you a hater. Truth is weirder than fiction. I don't care you don't believe it, but saying "No, it isn't" isn't a counter-argument, which effectively only makes you a hater.
Keep living in that bubble of delusions. You keep bringing these "x file/app showed these numbers" and yet you don't provide a single source. I'm sorry but you are the one who has to prove things. Not me. Calling me a hater means you don't even know what a hater is. You are the one hating on the game/riot, not me. Get a grip.
: for most of his existence he was built AS with a lot of tanky items. Occasionally someone would play him as an assassin, but that was rare. It changed when letality became a thing.
He did prioritize attack speed in the earlier days but most of his build was still damage oriented and not tanky items.
Vistha Kai (EUNE)
: I'll tell you why: Because there are barely any actual NEW players, OP. The game stagnated a few years ago\* and on some servers you can clearly see noticeable decline\*\*. --- _\* - Riot may claim 150 million active players in a year or two, but nobody who'd spend 5 minutes to research that number is going to believe them. The last number of "100 millions" was already a conveniently made up bullshit, which first appeared on Polygon and was added to Riot's website about a month later, considering the ranked playerbase did not increase by even 10% since the playerbase was allegedly "67 millions". **EXACTLY 50% increase**._ _\*\* - like NA, iirc, they lost like 20% of players since the season before the Dynamic Queue (DQ actually boosted the playerbase by a noticeable amount, but all those players were gone the next season)._
>Because there are barely any actual NEW players, OP. And people can stop reading after this point. There are obviously new player coming in constantly because the player base isn't getting smaller. That means new players are replacing the ones who leave. >The game stagnated a few years ago* and on some servers you can clearly see noticeable decline**. While on some servers you can see a massive increase. As an example, last season, the vietnamese playerbase blew up like crazy. >* - Riot may claim 150 million active players in a year or two, but nobody who'd spend 5 minutes to research that number is going to believe them. The last number of "100 millions" was already a conveniently made up bullshit, which first appeared on Polygon and was added to Riot's website about a month later, considering the ranked playerbase did not increase by even 10% since the playerbase was allegedly "67 millions". EXACTLY 50% increase. Everyone knows that China has by far the largest player base so looking at western regions and their ranked player bases isn't going to be a valid source for your claims. Not to mention, clear majority of the player base doesn't play ranked. Also, you are talking about a "not even 10% increase" but we all know you didn't track the numbers. You are just making that up. I guarantee you there was an increase larger than that. >** - like NA, iirc, they lost like 20% of players since the season before the Dynamic Queue (DQ actually boosted the playerbase by a noticeable amount, but all those players were gone the next season). Yes NA has apparently lost some players but your numbers are pulled out of your ass again. You aren't being realistic with your arguments, which effectively only makes you a hater.
: items used to give flat 10 armor pen instead of 21 lethality. They changed it to lethality to give assasins better lategame. the exact formula > Flat Armor Penetration = Lethality × (0.6 + 0.4 × level ÷ 18) meaning at lv1 it gives 13 armor pen, and at lv5 it gives 15, and at lv11 its 17. But its harder to balance because of different values throughout the game, and is flat out better then armor pen in every stage of the game. {{item:3147}} in itself is a nightmare to balance since its introduction. It has been buffed and nerfed and changed more times than lee sin. p.s. ezreal was supposed to be an apc :) Community said its an adc, so riot focus on ad aspect of it. Lee sin and noc have been bruisers for years, lethality came, and now they're assasins, coz lethality is so good value,
Noc has ALWAYS been an assassin though. I can agree on lee being a bruiser even though he was designed as an assassin (like irelia was when she was released, not the reworked one).
: You don't even know me so no need to put assumptions here , I know what is the difference between pure toxicity and just playing friendly . no need to feel defensive just because someone typed something you felt related to.
: These persons gather a lot of reports fast. But the problem is until they get punished, their toxicity affects everyone. At the end of a game, the opponent support wrote "better support wins". He didn't play better, and that's what still bothers me. It's like a reminder that individual games can be unfair, and there is nothing you can do about it, but focus on the bigger picture. Reports can work, punishments can work, but in the meantime, more people will suffer from the toxicity of the few. -edit-
You can't mention his name. Remove it. It's against the boards rules. >"better support wins" That's not toxic though. When you start thinking that stuff like that is toxic, then soon EVERYTHING someone says is toxic. Stop it. The whole "better X wins" is just a meme... It's like calling people who say gg after a 4v5 game toxic when they simply aren't.
: meh , I gave up on such people , they still play after I report them , so meh.
It's most likely because you are the type of person who thinks everything someone says is toxic. That's more common that people actually being toxic. That's why people whine how toxic this game is when it actually isn't even nearly that bad.
: Well it kind of is because what does it achieve? 1) They're going to go %%%% you and feed harder to spite you. 2) They're going to flame back and stop concentrating No one in the history of league has ever SUDDENLY started solo 1v5 dominating after some guy from botlane said 'stop feeding'
I have actually seen plenty of times someone improving their own play only after they have been called out on their mistakes. People tend to repeat their mistakes if not intervened. It's true though that most of the time it doesn't really help.
Adama (EUW)
: Ofcourse. More kids than adults. I'd guess the average would be 15/16
The average age a few years ago was 18-19... So it most likely is over that now. Even if it was still 18-19, that would mean most of the players are not kids. Moba as a genre is not even generally for kids because of the depth.
näs (EUW)
: I think you should Watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLk3KzHkF78 old but so %%%%ing true everything is here bud
: The game / meta itself is pretty balanced now. We do have cancerous picks indeed like you pointed out, Jax and Vayne. Just ban them. Out of my past 20 ranked games in diamond ELO, me and my team, we just ban Jax and Vayne. Rene/Fiora can be beaten easily with the right picks, right calls. Jax and Vayne are a bit more tricky, require more. So yea, if you can ban Jax/Vayne and possibly Draven every single match, you should be good to go.
I'd rather ban vladimir than draven. Vlad has way more impact. Then there is hecarim. You can't ban them all yourself and your team isn't going to ban all of them but they ban something like blitzcrank for some fcked up reason.
näs (EUW)
: I dont think you often see high elo riven, only newbies dont know how to play against her.
But you know she is a problem when you can play her successfully despite being absolutely clueless about her mechanics. At that point, it's not just a problem of people not knowing how to play against her. It's her having too much damage in her kit that mechanics don't matter. Riven isn't supposed to be a champion that wins fights with brute force. She should have to use her abilities in a proper order with basic attacks to win fights.
: i kinda %%%%ed up with my grammar on juggernauts and battlemages. i didnt try to compare them. i just used examples of names. Subclasses dont build any different from the main classes maybe a few but not many. mundo isnt easy to kite considering he has a perma slow that is really hard to dodge as something like an adc. it has a low cd and slows you quite a bunch and consider that he runs at you with 500 movement speed with swiftness boots. while being slowed. and its not easier to kill than a tank because mundo heals a shit ton even when having the grievous wounds debuff on him.
>Subclasses dont build any different from the main classes maybe a few but not many. The main differences between subclasses isn't their builds normally but their playstyles and roles in the fights. Juggernauts do differ with their builds though from other fighters. Juggernauts like garen and darius often build just one or 2 damage items and the rest is pure defense while other fighters like camille, jax and irelia tend to build damage on almost every slot. >mundo isnt easy to kite considering he has a perma slow that is really hard to dodge as something like an adc. it has a low cd and slows you quite a bunch and consider that he runs at you with 500 movement speed with swiftness boots. while being slowed. and its not easier to kill than a tank because mundo heals a shit ton even when having the grievous wounds debuff on him. The difference is that he doesn't hard cc you so you can constantly hit him, the cleaver is actually easy to dodge and he doesn't have any gap closers like dashes so he can be peeled off from carries very easily. He actually has the same weaknesses as nasus has. Nasus can have a huge damage and he even has a point-and-click slow that is stronger than mundo's but he still can't reach his targets in team fights, which makes him a bad champion when his enemies aren't potatoes.
Cadelanne (EUW)
: You're stating that the healthiest meta is the one revolving around characters you admitted nobody wants to play. I hope you see the flaws.
There is no flaw in that statement. "healthiest meta" and "characters nobody wants to play" are not mutually exclusive. Not to mention i NEVER said that nobody wants to play them. People not finding them attractive doesn't mean people don't want to play them.
: Am i legit banned from my first role?
put "fill" as your role once, play that game and then you will be getting your main role most of the time again.
: you can call shit like battle mages, juggernauts. no. there are simply, ad carries. mages. bruisers. tanks. assassins. these fancy names dont impact the game in any way. and what do you think a tank is in real life? an unkillable machine. what is mundo? an unkillable machine.
>you can call shit like battle mages, juggernauts. No you can't. Vladimir is a battle mage but isn't a juggernaut because he lacks the base damage so he can't build tanky AND he is ranged so he inherently can't be a juggernaut. > there are simply, ad carries. mages. bruisers. tanks. assassins. Those are the major classes and they have subclasses. >these fancy names dont impact the game in any way. The names don't affect it but they are named like that because they play differently, whic hmeans they aren't exactly the same class even though they share similarities. Or are you saying that illaoi and camille play and approach the game the same way? Are you saying that janna and zyra are the same thing because they are both supports? The other one is an enchanter and the other one is a mage support, both excelling at completely different things. Or cassiopeia and xerath. Or ezreal and twitch (adcs do have the least differences between them but they still do exist). They are real terms and they exist for a reason. Just because you are in denial and refuse to accept facts, it doesn't make them any less correct terms. It just makes you wrong. >and what do you think a tank is in real life? an unkillable machine. And also packs a punch from a long range, something that things in games with a role of a tank don't do, so you can't actually compare it to an actual tank in the real world. A tank without a cannon or a weapon is not a tank. It's just an armored vehicle at that point. >what is mundo? an unkillable machine. A bag of meat running at you that is easy to kite and avoid because it doesn't have proper gap closers or proper hard cc and thus, it's also easier to kill than a tank.
: > [{quoted}](name=GonahtanuGepardi,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=c6IsZzsN,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2019-04-17T09:11:06.881+0000) > > Mundo is not a tank though. He is a juggernaut, a bruiser. how is he a bruiser lmao, he uses tank items, he has a tank kit. theres no such thing as juggernaut
Juggernaut is a subclass of a bruiser. They are very durable champions with high damage but with very poor gapclosers and the ability stick to the target. Examples are garen, darius, mundo, illaoi and mordekaiser. >he has a tank kit. No he doesn't. Tanks have built in durability like shields or heals AND they have either strong engage or strong peel with hard cc. Tanks have 2 subclasses: warden and vanguard. Vanguard champions have strong engage like sejuani and zac. Wardens are tanks with strong peel like nautilus and maokai. What does mundo have? He literally only has the durability part, which every other juggernaut has too but he lacks those other aspects that are extremely important for a tank and he has damage that tanks don't have but other juggernauts do. Btw, juggernaut is an official term that Riot also uses. They are the ones who invented it. Here is an article about the juggernaut update they did a while back to 4 champions: https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/page/gameplay-update-juggernauts
: > [{quoted}](name=Deathraven13,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=c6IsZzsN,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-16T15:34:00.914+0000) > > Tanks are not fun ? But I like playing Thresh and Leona :/ > > Tanks are pretty useless in this meta because there are so many items that counter them. > > I agree with buff/nerfs made with utility. tank supports i actually do kinda like. but tanks such as mundo and amumu theyre not fun, theyre boring as %%%%.
Mundo is not a tank though. He is a juggernaut, a bruiser.
Cadelanne (EUW)
: Most people don't find tanks attractive, and almost nobody likes to play against tanks. When you ask people which meta they hated the most it's either s4/5 tank meta, or ardent censer meta. I'm pretty happy to see them gone and hope they'll never ever return.
People don't find tanks attractive, sure, but tank meta is actually the healthiest meta that exists in the game and it should be the norm. The problems league has had over the past months (or even a year) all come down to the lack of tanks in the games. The games are more of a coinflip than actual skill currently because one player can easily lose the game with one mistake, but in tank meta, there is more room to play around things and the TEAM making LESS mistakes is the one winning so it's harder for one person to fck it all up for everyone else so it becomes easier to carry those games. I agree though that tanks shouldn't be buffed with damage but with utility instead like tankiness or stun duration.
Spearki (EUW)
: what about ppl that dont own a phone how am i suppose to play i dont own a phone? also they did perma chat bans before but the majority of ppl seemed to just start resorting to troll/int bc they wasn't able to flame in chat idk if that's true but its the reason they say they dont do perma chat bans bc ppl would start being toxic in other ways then
Yes but they still shouldn't ban people for chat toxicity. They don't do permanent chat bans and that's ok but that doesn't justify them banning people because they expect people to troll if they get a permanent chat ban. So basically people are getting banned for something they didn't do just because riot expects them to do it. Chat toxicity should never result in a permanent ban unless it's a real life threat. Temporary bans are fine but permanent ones are not.
: Apologies for the slow turn around (One of the rare moments I have a social life - YAY GAME OF THRONES!) , but I will look for an official source ;). It's definitely the case though, as there was incidents of players keeping Bronze rankings with Diamond MMR, or of similar nature. Here's a sample I have saved from a while ago when the subject piked my interest: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/55uhhx/bronze_5_with_challenger_mmr_ama/
Yes is saw the reddit thread already but the problem is how old that post is now. It can't really be considered a valid source anymore considering i have had different experiences more recently.
0p71m15M (EUW)
: They actually marked the game as won. The only difference is that I lost LP instead of gain.
I don't mean marked in your match history. I mean flagged. A different thing.
: That's not accurate at all. LP and Rank can be an indicator of where your MMR is, but not everytime you lose LP will affect it. Dodges, for example, will affect your LP and rank, however do not influence your MMR.
It is accurate. When it comes to dodges, there is no actual confirmation made by a rioter (that would be reliable information today) that dodges don't affect your mmr. 3 LP worth of mmr is not even worth mentioning though. I have also tried to drop my rank to the level of my mmr last season, i dropped about 2-3 divisions by only dodging and yet my LP gains and losses didn't change. That means my mmr changed with my dodges as well. So unless you can give me a source of a rioter recently confirming that dodging doesn't affect mmr, i will hold my ground.
: Honestly I'm not 100% sure if an afk affects your "MMR". I would assume it doesn't, because of how it works post game in these scenarios. But one game would never affect you drastically anyway.
The game is flagged as a loss for the leaver so obviously he will lose mmr as well. Whenever you lose or gain LP, your mmr will change as well. If only your LP would be affected, that would break the entire system and it would be highly abusable.
Murdarici (EUNE)
: back in old days when you were close to promos you start to get 5lp, 3lp, 1lp and even 0lp :P so be happy that now only rare it happen to get to 99lp :D
It's not rare at all to get to 99 LP but you are right that the system isn't as bad as it was in season 3 where you could be stuck in 95+LP because the game didn't want to give enough LP for wins at that point to let you get to promos.
YORLDED (EUW)
: Banning your team's picks
>So what do you think , Is banning your team announced picks a legitimate use case? It definitely is. If my ally hovers a pick that i do not want to play against (op or frustrating and highly contested) and our team doesn't have first pick, I'm sure as hell going to ban that champion. Your fun does not go over my fun and I hold the right to ban what ever i want.
3xample (EUW)
: How are you so sure it isn't a joke?
Because there is nothing that would make it a joke. He is just another hater. When jokes are in a written form, it has to be obvious that it is a joke, but there is nothing in his comment that would make it a joke.
Takumaron (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=GonahtanuGepardi,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=5WrxE5EE,comment-id=000700000002000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T15:06:01.974+0000) It's so long so I won't quote every point seperatly. Yes you can play support like mindless shit and get carried but you can do the same on any other role (if you don't feed) (maybe apart from jungle) but you will generally won't do that well. Support being mechanically easier depends from champion to champion (as it does on mid-you used annie as example), the difference from mid is that support has more champions that are less mechanicaly hard, but you have to make up in game knowledge (especially in the smaller things most people don't care about- for instance ward placement) Also you have to take your ADC's skill into consideration when playing. Because you rely so much on other people you need to learn to differentiate what plays you can or can't do (thats one skill other roles don't realy need that much-but they should learn it) Also you made a point somewhere that if you are lower levels than enemies, you played it wrong-not necessarily, If you roam, you are gonna lose some XP Also you said that you don't need to be good at csing etc. (things other roles have to have). I stopped playing for a year and these are skills that I am lacking and it hurts me so much. Especially csing- it's much harder to use that skill properly on support Also you pointed out wave managemant. You have to know how it is done to not mess it up for your adc/help him with it or to realize what enemy is doing. Also most adcs don't know how it's done so you sometimes have to do it for them (thats one of the skills I am lacking right now, but I'm working on that) And sometimes your teammates pick such a weird team, that you as support become the only engage tool/frontline-and do they play according to it? NO so you have to play multiple roles at the same time. Also what makes you think that supports on PRO teams are worse players? What about players who switch between roles? I can't tell you how many matches are won/lost from botlane simply because support played well/good.
>Yes you can play support like mindless shit and get carried but you can do the same on any other role (if you don't feed) (maybe apart from jungle) but you will generally won't do that well. You can't play every role like that. Only support and jungle (and top with tanks when tanks are in the meta). >you have to make up in game knowledge (especially in the smaller things most people don't care about- for instance ward placement) Things like ward placement are basics that pretty much everyone knows how to do decently. Going from decent to good is not going to make a difference when it comes to the result of the game most of the time. It's like 1/100 games where the proper ward placement won the game so it's pretty irrelevant and should only matter to players in extremely high elo because there the small things start to matter more. But if you place a ward properly in gold, it's not gonna do anything. >Also you have to take your ADC's skill into consideration when playing. Because you rely so much on other people you need to learn to differentiate what plays you can or can't do (thats one skill other roles don't realy need that much-but they should learn it) Every single role needs this skill. Bot laners need with each other while other roles need it with the jungler. Mid and top are 2v2 lanes as well. Just with a small twist. >Also you made a point somewhere that if you are lower levels than enemies, you played it wrong-not necessarily, If you roam, you are gonna lose some XP No you won't. If you roam properly, you will not lose xp. >Also you pointed out wave managemant. You have to know how it is done to not mess it up for your adc/help him with it or to realize what enemy is doing. Also most adcs don't know how it's done so you sometimes have to do it for them (thats one of the skills I am lacking right now, but I'm working on that) That's not knowing how wave management works. Just just knowing not to touch the creeps. There is much more to wave management than just freezing and the concept expands after laning phase and you don't need to know anything about that part as a support. >Also what makes you think that supports on PRO teams are worse players? What about players who switch between roles? Statistical facts show that. It's literally undeniable. Speaking of switching roles, yellowstar, aphromoo and corejj for example are all supports who have switched roles from adc to support and they have become one of the best supports in their regions. Kinda confirms these theories about supports being worse than their peers. >I can't tell you how many matches are won/lost from botlane simply because support played well/good. It would be irrelevant information anyway because it's about carry potential and impact of the role and not about how good the player is over all.
: Oh boy... My point was that every single player is playing his lane the best he can, with the champion he mains ( preferably ), and knows things that are important for his lane ( if we are speaking about laning phase ) and his matchup. Where exactly can you pin point skill difference between support and mid in this example? We also have to know how to trade, when, our cds and enemy cds, we also operate with summoner spells, we also need to keep an eye for ganks both ways and set them up, we also roam and manage our minions to set up drake or good back timing... where is the difference? Why is your job harder than ours? The only difference is that supports do not cs. You have full right to disagree with me, as I do with you. Gl in games
You are still completely ignoring the main point. Supports are worse at the game than their PEERS. So worse than players in the same rating. That happens because you need less skill to be in the same rating than some other role. You can have knowledge about many things etc but you don't NEED them to climb as a support while other roles NEED those things. That's why, on average, supports are worse than their peers because they don't have the need for those skills so they haven't bothered to learn them. Not all supports are worse but definitely most of them are. Let's use the wave manipulation as an example. Your adc NEEDS that knowledge while you don't NEED it. You can have it but it's your adcs job to know it and it affects him more than it does you because it's him that loses more from bad wave manipulation. Another example is knowing how match-ups on every lane are supposed to go. Junglers and mid laners NEED to know those things while support and adc don't.
: Skilled at what? At the game? You think support mains cant cs or what? xd Put mid main on thresh and tell me if he is skilled enough to win lane? Its all about choosing lane and champion/s to main--- and if you are better than your opponent you will win games. In the teamfights you have to be better then enemy team if you want to win it, just because the role is less flashy doesnt mean that your support didnt deserve to win that game and that your midlaner is more skilled. Different skillset is required for each role, sure my midlaner has the skill to kill enemy carry but I have the skill to stop their assasin to do the same, while peeling for your ass to get out after you get tripple CCed.
>Skilled at what? At the game? Yes. >You think support mains cant cs or what? That's only one of the things they can't do on the same level as their peers. >xd Put mid main on thresh and tell me if he is skilled enough to win lane? I'd actually rather have an autofilled support who mains mid than an actual support main. And i know mid laners can play supports like thresh way better than the thresh mains themselves. Seen it happen hundreds of times. >Its all about choosing lane and champion/s to main--- and if you are better than your opponent you will win games. No one ever claimed otherwise. >In the teamfights you have to be better then enemy team if you want to win it Yes >just because the role is less flashy doesnt mean that your support didnt deserve to win that game Again, no one ever claimed otherwise. >and that your midlaner is more skilled. Yeah it doesn't mean that, but the mid laner is most likely the better player anyway. >Different skillset is required for each role, sure my midlaner has the skill to kill enemy carry but I have the skill to stop their assasin to do the same, while peeling for your ass to get out after you get tripple CCed. Those things are actually more related to the kits of the champions instead of the skill of the player. A mid laner can also peel for his teammates if he has the tools to do in his kits (like lissandra). So... What part of your comment actually touched the topic of supports being worse than their peers (on average)? You were just talking about deserving to win when no one was talking about that. The enemy team also has a support...
Marvals (EUW)
: This is why. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/6dzgt7/ls_opinions_on_support_players/
I mean, LS is right there. As he said, "support players are worse than their peers". Diamond is still diamond but don't think that someone who mains mid and someone who mains support are as skilled when they are in the same mmr.
: What is with this myth? It's so clearly wrong with just a little logic. Mechanically, yes, supports tend to be easier - but not in terms of game knowledge and stuff. Not to mention the fact that you have to perform in fights despite being several levels and items behind everyone else. Overall it balances out in terms of difficulty. In other words, you can't have brainless supports reaching high elo, but you can have brainless e.g. ADCs. Just take Hans Sama as an example, says himself he has no understanding of the game and has to be told what to do all the time by his supp. Typically mechanically easier roles and champions get compensated by requiring good understanding, maintaining roughly average difficulty. Otherwise the entire game and climbing system would be completely broken. Or, again in other words: if support was just flat out easier, every challenger would be a support main. People abusing this super-easy role would be the only ones climbing, and we'd see people from other roles always just switch to support instead, because it's easier and thus makes climbing easier. But we don't see that. At all. Because it's not easier. It just requires less mechanical skills and more non-mechanical skills on average.
>What is with this myth? It's so clearly wrong with just a little logic. It's not a myth though, it's VERY known fact and it's, as you said, just logic. >Mechanically, yes, supports tend to be easier - but not in terms of game knowledge and stuff. Not to mention the fact that you have to perform in fights despite being several levels and items behind everyone else. Overall it balances out in terms of difficulty. It doesn't balance out. The difficulty is a sum of all the required skills the role has. You don't need to be better at certain aspects of the game than a player in another role to be in the same rank. You just have to be as good as that other player in those aspects. And since you have less skills you have to be that good at, your role is easier. Support is not HARDER than any other role in ANY aspect. So what happens when your role is not harder but also lacks aspects completely? It becomes easier. Supports do not need to learn to cs, they do not need wave manipulation etc and their positioning in fights takes a lot less skill than other roles because it doesn't have to be as accurate. Not to mention you are not going to be behind in levels and items as a support unless you are behind overall, which means you are playing poorly. >In other words, you can't have brainless supports reaching high elo, but you can have brainless e.g. ADCs. You can have both actually. Seen it multiple times. Supports and junglers are the most common offenders though. You don't need brains to just stick to the strongest members of your team like glue. >Just take Hans Sama as an example, says himself he has no understanding of the game and has to be told what to do all the time by his supp. Ah, a single example. However, speaking of pros, if you look at all the pro teams, supports are most of the time, by far the worst players in those teams. Far more often than any other role. >Typically mechanically easier roles and champions get compensated by requiring good understanding, maintaining roughly average difficulty. They do not require any higher understanding. There is nothing a support has to understand better than someone else. Not a single thing. >Otherwise the entire game and climbing system would be completely broken. It IS broken. That's why riot wanted to add positional ranks but the players didn't want them so they got scrapped. Why do you think when people duo-boost, they put the boostee on support (good examples are bf boosting gf aka egirl)? That's because there are less ways for them to fck up, making it EASIER. >Or, again in other words: if support was just flat out easier, every challenger would be a support main. People abusing this super-easy role would be the only ones climbing, and we'd see people from other roles always just switch to support instead, because it's easier and thus makes climbing easier. This part is wrong on so many levels. First of all, the ease of the role doesn't mean you can necessarily climb with it. We can use a champion like annie as an example. Annie is not hard at all but do people get to challenger with her? Not necessarily and most players who play her, don't get there. Also, support is a role that is heavily reliant on other members of the team. However, being reliant on teammates doesn't make the role any harder. The difficulty means how hard the role is to play to its maximum potential (and obviously how your teammates are doing is irrelevant here). Secondly, even in challenger, people still play what they want to play. ESPECIALLY when it comes to roles. And what benefit would there be for people if they get to challenger with a support? Especially if they want to get into pro scene, they are better off doing it in some other role. Thirdly, you can't get into a proper match if everyone is queuing as a support. I get it, you want to defend your efforts as a support main but this is just the reality and you shouldn't get bothered by it.
Spearki (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=GonahtanuGepardi,realm=EUW,application-id=ETj6EdvQ,discussion-id=Wgcy10oZ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T12:50:51.346+0000) > Are are more reasons to create a proper voice chat than there are reasons against it. is there really tho you will create a really bad inviornment and un fair advantages against shy ppl and introverts etc would only make solo q more rng having to really on if you dont get introverts or not seems like terrible idea > It actually isn't. It's just as alive as ever. I don't play that game because of the overwhelming amount of cheaters but at least i bothered to check the statistics. https://steamcharts.com/app/730#6m i mean peak players 600k avrg 350k or so while games like apex has over 10mil and league has million avrg as well. maybe down hill spiral is wrong word as its a somewhat steady player base but still way less pop and it wont spike for sure so still dumb argument
>is there really tho you will create a really bad inviornment It creates a better environment. It creates a better way of communication which inherently gives the game a higher level of competitiveness. If, by bad environment, you mean toxicity, then that's completely false. It can't increase toxicity any higher than it currently is and people are less likely to be toxic in voice chat than in text chat. >and un fair advantages against shy ppl and introverts etc would only make solo q more rng having to really on if you dont get introverts or not seems like terrible idea It's not unfair at all. Those people can still listen to others and they can type important stuff if they aren't willing to talk. I'm an introvert myself and i would definitely use voice chat. Being an introvert has nothing to do with using voice chat. Shyness is a different thing and still isn't a hindrance. >i mean peak players 600k avrg 350k or so while games like apex has over 10mil and league has million avrg as well. maybe down hill spiral is wrong word as its a somewhat steady player base but still way less pop and it wont spike for sure so still dumb argument The fact that it has a steady playerbase is what invalidated YOUR argument.
Marvals (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=OG Zedster,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=vjUWPNVE,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-04-09T13:26:13.503+0000) > > G II (100 LP): ✓ - - > Wins: 65 > Losses: 32 > Summs up to 67% winrate, won about 13 in the last 15 games in gold still in a promo for g1 currently, no divisions skipped? riot system is shit, i played only duoq with a friend last season and i skipped divisions and he didnt , i went from s1 to p1 and he went from g5 to p5 playing exactly the same games. sometimes you skip sometimes you dont.
You simply didn't have the same mmr so it doesn't matter if you played together all the time.
M3GTRDragon (EUNE)
: Support is not as easy as one thinks. It's far more harder to spoonfeed whole team than to get fed yourself. As for jungle, they are on the weakside, as now they end up staying behind even with full jungle clear
Deprecious (EUNE)
: "Relic shield's quest completion is not related to winning or losing a lane." - How am i supposed to complete it when i'm forced to stay behind the turret ? or when i am dead ? or when i can't get close to minions because the enemy talon can just jump over the wall and one shot me ? "And supports aren't generally weak enough to get oneshot by anyone." - What ???? What ????? What ????????????????????????? I'm done..
> How am i supposed to complete it when i'm forced to stay behind the turret ? Depends on what champion you are playing but as a general advice, you can focus on using your stacks on the melee minions that run next to the turret or by using your abilities (like braum q) to last hit the minions. This kind of oppressive zoning doesn't happen often at all and when it does, it's usually something like a caitlyn + brand combo. In those cases, you can try to bait out brand's abilities by stepping forward and then quickly turn when you think he is about to throw his pillar. Then you have a few seconds of free time to execute the minions with relic shield. >or when i am dead ? Don't feed. Dying doesn't really slow down the progress though because the stacks stack a bit. >or when i can't get close to minions because the enemy talon can just jump over the wall and one shot me ? A very specific scenario so this doesn't really help your case. Talon will not always be wasting his time on the other side of the wall looking to kill a melee support (most melee supports are inherently tanky so going for them is not exactly ideal) nor will the enemy team always even have talon. Ward on the other side of the wall and wait for him to leave. If he keeps sitting there, your team is slowly gaining advantages elsewhere. >- What ???? What ????? What ????????????????????????? I'm done.. You were talking about relic shield when i said that so let's use champion that use it as examples. {{champion:12}} {{champion:53}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:555}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:44}} Which one of these relic shield users is going to get one shot by an enemy that isn't massively fed? Pyke is the only champion on that list that isn't tanky enough to take the damage but he has the mobility and stealth to avoid the one shot. There are many support champions with base stats so low that they can get one shot, sure, but if they are played properly, they have the tools to avoid the one shot pretty easily. There are only a handful of supports that are actually EASY to oneshot without a big risk of failure (like {{champion:16}} {{champion:37}} and {{champion:25}} ). Even champions like zyra and brand are squishy but if you approach them poorly, it's you who will get oneshot by them. So i guess this all comes down to the good old "git gud" phrase.
Deprecious (EUNE)
: I think the shoe is on the other foot here pal. you are the one playing mid lane most of the time, giving your input on the support items.
The role i play doesn't matter on this topic.
Deprecious (EUNE)
: "Which is just an illusion created by a lack of understanding." Oh, really ? i don't even know why i'm wasting my time with you, i should of ignored you when i saw the following "There are bad changes sometimes... but it's rare"
You can choose to be willfully ignorant, it's up to you. However, that doesn't make you right or allow you to improve since you are refusing to be self-critical.
Deprecious (EUNE)
: "Those changes were all BUFFS to supports. Not nerfs..." Yeah, such a buff, if i get relic, and i lose my lane i get my wards at minute 20, in a game where the support and the adc have the least mobility and get one shot by any other role even when on par with them. "You are SUPPOSED to be behind solo laners by around 2 levels" No, why should i ? why should mid lane and top lane always have the highest ground in the game ? "Just because i choose to play the majority of my games in certain roles, it doesn't mean i don't understand or can't play those other roles." Then why you don't play them ? maybe because it sucks ?
>Yeah, such a buff, if i get relic, and i lose my lane i get my wards at minute 20, in a game where the support and the adc have the least mobility and get one shot by any other role even when on par with them. Relic shield's quest completion is not related to winning or losing a lane. You can get it just as fast regardless of how your lane goes (unless you are inting). And supports aren't generally weak enough to get oneshot by anyone. Not to mention they have tools to prevent that from happening in their kits. >No, why should i ? why should mid lane and top lane always have the highest ground in the game ? THIS is balance and there are a few reasons for it. 1) The jungler has the most influence over the entire map so letting him have the highest level is not balanced. It's simply not fair to get ganked by a level 6 jungler when you are still level 5 as a solo laner or level 4 as a bot laner. It's simply not balanced. 2) The jungler shouldn't be able to 1v1 a solo laner (in a normal scenario, so not fed). Their lane opponents exist for that reason and the junglers are supposed to help them defeat the enemy, not solo them without the laner's help. 3) The jungle role has the least amount of risks (lack of opponent who would constantly punish you for the slightest mistakes) and they shouldn't be rewarded on the same level as solo laners for never showing their faces. >Then why you don't play them ? maybe because it sucks ? That's simply bad reasoning. Why do those roles have players in the first place then? I'll tell you... It's because those people like to play those roles. Same with me. I have always played mid the most and i will continue to do so because i enjoy the champions and the play styles of that role the most.
Deprecious (EUNE)
: @Ardent Censer was fine before they broke it, and i am not talking about the ardent nerfs at all, i'm talking about the sighstone changes, the support item changes, and also about all the other changes that affected the role indirectly Yeah, jungle is so fine, that what ever you do you are always 2 levels behind the mid/top laner, and that is if they don't get fed.. Please tell me more how support and jungle are fine, when you only play top/mid lane
>@Ardent Censer was fine before they broke it, and i am not talking about the ardent nerfs at all, i'm talking about the sighstone changes, the support item changes, and also about all the other changes that affected the role indirectly Those changes were all BUFFS to supports. Not nerfs... >Yeah, jungle is so fine, that what ever you do you are always 2 levels behind the mid/top laner, and that is if they don't get fed.. You are SUPPOSED to be behind solo laners by around 2 levels. You are supposed to be on par with bot laners in levels, not solo laners. If you are above your bot lane in levels, you are either ahead or they have fallen behind. A jungler should never be on the same level as solo laners (outside of the first few levels). >Please tell me more how support and jungle are fine, when you only play top/mid lane Just because i choose to play the majority of my games in certain roles, it doesn't mean i don't understand or can't play those other roles. I have a very deep understanding of all the roles and how they work. I have played since season 1 so i have had time to learn and experience the game.
Deprecious (EUNE)
: "There are bad changes sometimes... but it's rare" Like the adc changes ? and the jungle changes ? and the support item changes ? and the akali rework ? and the irelia rework ? These were all good changes right ? or were these bad and happened over the course of 5 seasons ? this is also just the tip of the iceberg
>Like the adc changes ? They are fine now. >and the jungle changes ? Those were fine changes and jungle is currently fine, jungle camps could be made to deal less damage though so more junglers are viable but over all, it's currently fine. >and the support item changes ? Pretty much the best change they could have done in the fly and not even remotely as bad of a change as people make it out to be. >and the akali rework ? Akali is in a pretty nice spot right now. Balanced. >and the irelia rework ? Same as akali. The idea itself of reworking those champions wasn't bad at all. Sure they got out in unbalanced states but they have made good changes to those champions so they are no longer overpowered and they aren't underpowered either. You can't expect perfection on release, ever. What matters is how they handle it from there. >These were all good changes right ? In the end, yes. And that's what matters. >or were these bad and happened over the course of 5 seasons ? The changes you mentioned happened in a span of one year. So basically one season, not 5. >this is also just the tip of the iceberg Which is just an illusion created by a lack of understanding.
Deprecious (EUNE)
: Well, season 7 i started playing, and i began as a support, then going into season 8 i switch to jungle because they ruined the support role, right now i'm playing ARAM, because they fcked up the jungle too, and now guess what, they are going to "balance" ARAM XD
>Well, season 7 i started playing, and i began as a support, then going into season 8 i switch to jungle because they ruined the support role Season 7 supports very overpowered with ardent cancer meta. They had to nerf it and it is still too strong of a role. And yet you stopped playing it because you can't understand the game. They didn't ruin support role, they only brought it more in line with others except it was still one of the strongest roles. Ofc someone who started in season 7 could never understand how much better supports have it now than they did before you started. You don't know their base line and how strong they SHOULD actually be. They were completely balanced when they were just ward bots without items. However, the role wasn't popular enough so riot had to increase the power of that role and even remove wards from the shop to get people to play the role. So because of popularity issues, support role is left overpowered intentionally. And yet there are people like you who can't grasp how ridiculously powerful that role is. All this in addition to it also being the easiest role to play overall... >right now i'm playing ARAM, because they fcked up the jungle too Except jungle is fine. Again, they brought it more in line with other roles with the changes. No more level 6 junglers before solo laners and them still being able to sit in a lane bush for 2 mins because they aren't losing anything by doing so. ARAM is a good place for you. Don't try to focus on game balance when you play. Just play. Saves your face.
Arcade Lulu (EUNE)
: I love it when my adc decides to go afk and i'm just left there, wondering wtf to do now with my uncompleted support item Why couldn't just riot fix the whole support item top thing with some other solution?
>I love it when my adc decides to go afk and i'm just left there, wondering wtf to do now with my uncompleted support item If one of your teammates leaves, your support item completion is literally the least of your concerns...
Deprecious (EUNE)
: Since i started playing this game..
>80% of the changes done to the game were stupidly bad and beyond any logic explanation. how ? Here is an explanation... You do not understand the game. That naturally means you are going to disagree with some of the changes because you don't understand the game enough to understand the changes. There are bad changes sometimes or they aren't changing something that has to be changed, but it's rare and not even remotely 80% of the time.
Spearki (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Svinjex,realm=EUW,application-id=ETj6EdvQ,discussion-id=Wgcy10oZ,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-04-07T22:30:50.906+0000) the community is so toxic the forums are so fake i remember a mod being all nice and then flaming on discord 24/7. I think they game will be dead in the next 2 3 years atleast by 50% of the playerbase. Riot clearly dosent give a damn about a voice chat or removing /all chat cause it does you no good. and dota/csgo isn't toxic they just as toxic XD and all chat is a option you have to enabled in the settings accounts have it preset to disabled so you most have enabled all chat but been to dum to disable it again? XD. and there is voice for premades but there is 0 reason to put it in solo q when the majority probably dont want it in solo q and they might only loss more players by doing it. isn't csgo alrdy on a downhill spiral? yet you play that game but talk about lol dying every game will die down eventually XD
>and dota/csgo isn't toxic they just as toxic XD And over 20% of the players in cs:go are cheaters, which isn't a problem in league. >and there is voice for premades but there is 0 reason to put it in solo q when the majority probably dont want it in solo q and they might only loss more players by doing it. Are are more reasons to create a proper voice chat than there are reasons against it. >isn't csgo alrdy on a downhill spiral? It actually isn't. It's just as alive as ever. I don't play that game because of the overwhelming amount of cheaters but at least i bothered to check the statistics. https://steamcharts.com/app/730#6m
tZJoanna (EUW)
: ***
This post wasn't about him/her though... So no need to attack him like that.
: > [{quoted}](name=Antenora,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=1TT4VAgK,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-04-07T15:22:27.206+0000) > > If you play like a Support and your team is OK with it then no it's not trolling. > > Your team is well within their rights to report you for it and you can get banned if it's consistently reported for. But it's practice mode.
No it's not. Normals are not practice modes. Customs and practice tool are practice modes. Not to mention "practicing" ap master yi support is not practicing. There is nothing to practice as it is not viable. It would be different if you wwere practicing something that ACTUALLY works and not something everyone knows doesn't work. Playing something you know doesn't work is the definition of trolling, no matter how hard you are trying to win with that pick. The game starts in champion select, not after the loading screen. You are lowering your chances of winning dramatically already in champion select intentionally, and that is trolling. So either get a 5-man premade of people who do not care about your pick, or stop doing it.
: > [{quoted}](name=Inaphyt,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=1TT4VAgK,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-04-07T17:07:28.397+0000) > > The word viable is the key word, master yi support is not viable but what does viable mean? The word viable only matters at the competitive level, or where play is conducted optimally. Most scrubs that play this game need not worry about the term viable ever. Master yi ap is not meta and it's not good though. Okay so where can I play this then?
With a full premade that doesn't mind you playing it.
: I see both sides arguments. On one hand, OP is kind of right since you don't typically see 01:00 AM written down, most of the time the first 0 is ignored and with the argument of 24 hours, it kind of makes sense. On the other hand, yeah, 01:00 could be universally used for both AM and PM. Some people take a while to figure out the mistakes they made or try to wrap the problems in their head.
>I see both sides arguments. On one hand, OP is kind of right since you don't typically see 01:00 AM written down, most of the time the first 0 is ignored and with the argument of 24 hours, it kind of makes sense. Well, on 12h clocks, the time still goes to 12, which means the "0" in the front is technically necessary and can't be called unnecessary. So there really isn't an argument to defend this misunderstanding.
: The fact it's both time methods fused together is the problem. If you see 01:00 AM then it means 1 in the morning. Not 1 in the afternoon since they could easily do 13:00 for that or simply 1:00 PM. Like I said, if they want to say 1 in the morning, keep it to one in the morning and not 12 hours later.
But can't you see the difference between 24h clock and 12h clock? The only difference is that the 24h clock doesn't have "AM" or "PM" attached to it. So if you see someone saying 01:00 o'clock, that means he is using 24h clock and it's 1 in the morning. However, if he says 01:00 AM/PM, you know he uses 12h clock. That's the ONLY way to differentiate them. How you write the time besides that doesn't matter. You can use 01:00, 1:00 or 1... That has nothing to do with 12 or 24 hour clocks.
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GonahtanuGepardi

Level 172 (EUW)
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