rozoulini (EUNE)
: my opinion is that if a game dosnt have flaws people wont be excited to wait.... toxicity is reduced ranked is skill based a lot of people actually have fun trolling or harassing others to tilt them for fun -i dont like normal game matchmaking - i do believe toxicity must go down even more - i actually believe bugs and op champions have a good side, maybe fix the current ones and introduce new ones exactly how they are doing it now if im correct RIOT introduce new OP stuff, bugs, let people have problems with the game, and yes i do believe this is a part of what makes you addicted. :)
Having a game were you either get 4 of your teammates in the jungle or 4 of your team in lane, getting turrets and winning, is hardly skillbased. its pure luckbased
Irrsinn (EUW)
: I am very aware. I was just trying to add on to Hides point: there is always a new an shiny game and suddenly the cries "this game is dead!" can be heard -again. And again.
The league community is killing League, other games just provide a escape for people that have had enough of this game and can break lose from it.
: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0747563215301655 This is one of the papers that used Riots data. There are more out there and somewhere there is also some info about the requirements (i remember that you have to name a Rioter as co author in the published paper. You can see Davin and Lyte in this one), but can't seem to find it. I guess it was on Lytes ask.fm account (which got deleted). edit: Here you go, the last chapter ("open data") might give you some insight in research happening outside of Riot and Riot sharing their data. It's not the source I was looking for, but it seems to refer to the same one. http://www.nature.com/news/can-a-video-game-company-tame-toxic-behaviour-1.19647?WT.mc_id=TWT_NatureNews
Reading right now. I enjoyed > The Riot team devised 24 in-game messages or tips, including some that encourage good behaviour — such as “Players perform better if you give them constructive feedback after a mistake” — and some that discourage bad behaviour: “Teammates perform worse if you harass them after a mistake”. They presented the tips in three colours and at different times during the game. All told, there were 216 conditions to test against a control, in which no tips were given. That is a ridiculous number of permutations to test on people in a laboratory, but trivial for a company with the power to perform millions of experiments each day. > > Some of the tips had a clear impact (see ‘Civil engineering’). The warning about harassment leading to poor performance reduced negative attitudes by 8.3%, verbal abuse by 6.2% and offensive language by 11% compared with controls. But the tip had a strong influence only when presented in red, a colour commonly associated with error avoidance in Western cultures. A positive message about players' cooperation reduced offensive language by 6.2%, and had smaller benefits in other categories. Riot has released just a few of these analyses, so it is hard to make broad generalizations. > > From a scientific standpoint, says Lin, the results from the priming experiments were “epic”, and they opened the doors to many more research questions, such as how various tips and colours might influence players from different cultures. But the behavioural improvements were too modest and too fleeting to change the culture of the game. Lin reasoned that if he wanted to make the community more civil, then players would have to have a say in devising the norms. So Riot introduced the Tribunal, which gives players a chance to serve as judge and jury to their peers. In it, volunteers review chat logs from a player who has been reported for bad behaviour, and then vote on whether the offender deserves punishment. Because that refers to tribunal, that is no longer in place and is replaced my a automated tribunal. So they had this thing in place, it actually made a difference and they removed it and replaced it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am currently looking at ScienceDirect. its going to take time because the paper itself refers to other papers (some of those are papers written by people payed by riot it seems, but im gonna look that up) But basically the statements that Riot has come out with seems to be a bit out of context. but ill come back to that Edit: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0747563215301655 The article itself could explain why i get more negative teammates than a person with a different username that has a more positive spin on it. My in game username is "Gothrian" and "Goth" is a negative state word, i had my suspicions on this as well so i changed my name to "Goofrian" as to refer to Goofy from Disney. if this paper is accurate then i should experience a decrease in toxic behavior by 1%.
: > step 2. Take screenshots every time someone has a toxic behavior. Define toxic behavior plz. > should be about 87%. Perfectly possible, yeah. I think it will be a bit less, but depending on your definition of toxicity 87% doesn't sound completely off the charts. > should be about 87%. but anything over 5% is a clear indication that Riots statement that 5% of the community is toxic Come one. Not sure if you did that intentionally (i hope not), but you mixed up two different percentages here. Percentage of games and percentage of players. Thats a huge difference! > the majority of the games are fair and clean. Riot normally uses a pretty narrow defintion of toxic for these number. They are talking about really really toxic....racism, sexism, homophobia, this kind of stuff. edit: Just in case this wasn't clear. I am aware that you said your thread was deleted. Thats why I checked your deleted thread and they still don't contain any screenshots.
> Define toxic behavior plz. I want to say: "words that trigger people into a negative state of mind" but you will just say that it is subjective. So lets just take a few trigger words that i think we can agree on that are toxic: "cancer", "trash" "retard" "tard" "bronze" "silver" "dumbfuck" "asshole" "troll" "report" "ff at 20" Lets trow in some trigger patterns as well. 1. intentional feeding 2.RQ or DC 3. counterjungle your own jungle. 4. going to another lane to deny minions for your own teammates 5. blaming others for own mistakes 6. spam ping until they cant ping anymore, and then ping when the CD is down. That should be enough for a baseline. > Come one. Not sure if you did that intentionally (i hope not), but you mixed up two different percentages here. Percentage of games and percentage of players. Thats a huge difference! Actually it was unintentional when i wrote it. I re-read it and see that i was thinking one thing and typing another. what i meant was: if 87% (approximately) of all games are toxic then the game IS toxic. I don´t even know why this is even up for debate. having 5% of the player base that are toxic should mean that out of 11 games (99 other players) then about 5 of those are "toxic" correct? then that means that you would have about a 50% chance to have a toxic person in your game and about 25% chance to have one in your team. (20% chance to have in your team if you are not toxic yourself) But its not 1:5 games you get a toxic person in your team, its way more. And not to mention the number of tilted players that you get in your team that are caused from previous games+ DC or RQ. Even if it is a pure 1:5 ratio on getting a toxic person in your team then its still enough to get "unlucky" and get 2-3 toxic people in your team for a 100 games in a row. (like roulette, were there is 1:37 that the ball will fall on your number it is common that the ball lands on the same number 3 times in a row. here its not 1:37 its 1:5 like trowing dice) This is enough to make the game itself pure luckbased. you either get a healthy stable team and you get to play on teamwork and skill, or you can get unlucky and just have trolls in your game. > edit: Just in case this wasn't clear. I am aware that you said your thread was deleted. Thats why I checked your deleted thread and they still don't contain any screenshots. yeah i´m looking for it as well, i know i posted it, gonna check NA and my smurf here on euw. But as i said, you can do 100 games yourself and you will get the same result as my claim, with or without my source.
: > do you have a raw data source? Would you mind stopping to ask for that? I can't believe that you are unaware that this is a completely unrealistic request, not just in LoL contexts, but everyhwere. Even in scientific papers the raw data is only analyzed and not actually printed in the actual paper. Of course you can contact the author and ask for it (and if you are very very lucky and have a valid reason you might even get it), but you can't just expect that the raw data is accessable that easily. Can you provide me the raw data of a reliable scientific study? Lets say...the PISA study? I want to see the actual answers the children gave in these tests. Not just some analysis, the raw data! If you are unable to provide me this data from such a famous and public scientific study, you might realize that it's a completely unrealistic request. > *And the posts were i for example linked 100 screenshots from 100 games got removed from the boards. It did not. Like I already said none of your deleted comments contained any screenshots. > *The surveys ive done have been "its not enough data" Well, because it simply didn't. Someone even took the time to explain why we can be sure it was not enough data...and you made it clear you understood that. Let me quote you about your own study: > 1. its a biased poll 2. the scale is to small . > *The scientific method i provided were i did a step by step guide in order to replicate the result got "its to long, did not read" Which thread exactly are you talking about? > these are 3 examples were i had objective data and it just got hacked by you with the COUNTER ARGUMENT "well that's just you" well no it issn´t. No. The first one doesn't seem to exist (i can even copy the text of your deleted posts, there are no links in there. But I doubt that's necessary, you should have access to them aswell). The second one is not reliable which you addmitted yourself (and even if you wouldn't have it still would be). The third one....we'll see. > My opinion of the game is based on not only common sense. but i have actually done the best to my ability to provide examples that ANYONE can replicate and see for themselves. I don't think this is your best. I think you can do better. For example you still insult people who disagree with you as "fanboys" (something you have been warned about before. You might want to delete that before an active moderator sees it), a pretty low method of trying to be right that basically undermines all credibility you might have. You also ask the opposing side for impossible proof while you provide none whatsoever that is even close to scientific standards. So no, I don't think this is your best. You don't seem like a complete fool to me, I am pretty sure this is not your limit. If you could stop insulting people who disagree with you and only demand the same quality of evidence which you provide, that would already be a huge step forward.
Then give me the source from a unbiased institution that confirms Riots statements. As for the guidelines to get the same result: [Here](http://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/HdHATMRl-a-critics-request) This method is to confirm [this post](http://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/XETOWfHF-why-its-easy-to-become-very-bitter-long-post) You can use the same method and find out that the game itself if toxic by simply just making a note every time someone behaves in a toxic/negative manner. And its way more than 5% And i can rephrase fanboy to something ells, as i used that term since you are set in stone that Riot is flawless and you are doing everything you can to make the company shine in a better light. But i realized that its because you are some sort of Admin? like your goal is to get a job at Riot? if that is the case then you really cant agree with me and i can understand why you would get insulted by being called a fanboy. As for my posts- i have nothing to gain by stating my findings, while as you have something to gain by proving me wrong, if i am correct. or i´m wrong and this is just a big sidetrack and should be ignored.
: None of these threads contained any screenshots.
again, it got deleted, but if you want. you can do this yourself. and i am certain that you will get about the same result. Step1. spectate 100 random games. step 2. Take screenshots every time someone has a toxic behavior. should be about 87%. but anything over 5% is a clear indication that Riots statement that 5% of the community is toxic and that the majority of the games are fair and clean. talk to you then.
: > I made a post about this that was shut down after 3 hours What do you mean with "shut down"? Do you mean "deleted" or "people didn't agree with you"? Because none of your deleted posts contain any screenshots.
Got deleted for "spam" Not just general down votes, because that happens every time i don´t sugarcoat it. if i had made this a funny post, then i would get 20-100 uppvotes with people agreeing. Because with humor people can laugh at the problem, without they have to face it.
: > I made a post about this that was shut down after 3 hours What do you mean with "shut down"? Do you mean "deleted" or "people didn't agree with you"? Because none of your deleted posts contain any screenshots.
Got deleted for "spam"
: > Also they have no way to prove their statistics are real Are you aware that Riot share their PB data with scientific insitutions and there are multiple scientific papers based on this data out there? If providing scientific access isn't enough to prove the "statistics are real", nothing is.
Source on that please. And no, riots word does not count, the raw data so that we can see for ourselves.
: Why is it so important for you that people share your opinion that League isn't fun? Can't you just accept the reality that most people still have fun and that they are not wrong just because YOU don't think it's fun anymore? Just because you play a few hours of ARK (which indeed is a pretty cool game) this doesn't mean League is "sinking". Last time we got info about that (~half a year ago?), League was still growing. Not as fast as in the past, but still. At the very best it's plateauing.....which might sound bad at first, but you have to realize that it's plateauing as the most played game of all times. Even if League is not growing anymore or even shrinking like every game does at same point it's still huge and due to it's size it will take decades until it's really gone. So if you want to leave because you and Sky think this game isn't fun anymore, just do it, but without trying to force your personal opinion on others as if it was the ultimate truth. > Every single post were i have actually presented my results based on objective analysis on the game I checked a few of your posts, they are all about your personal opinion. You never provide any objective analysis whatsoever, it's all subjective. No wonder people always oppose you, thats normal. Just accept it that not everyone shares your opinion. If you actually want to convince someone (god knows why), you should stop critisizing other people for quoting actual sources that are at least somewhat reliable and start doing that yourself. I wouldn't mind if you just shared your personal opinion, thats okay. But claiming that you are presenting "objective analysis" is just...idk...thats the complete opposite of what you actually do.
> Last time we got info about that (~half a year ago?), League was still growing. Source? and no. Riots statements does not count, do you have a raw data source? And i´m not the one saying that the game is not fun, Sky is.. well i do agree with him, but having fun is subjective. My reason for jumping ship- as i state in the post, is the toxic community, the luck based gameplay if the game is a win or loss because of the community. *And the posts were i for example linked 100 screenshots from 100 games got removed from the boards. *The surveys ive done have been "its not enough data" *The scientific method i provided were i did a step by step guide in order to replicate the result got "its to long, did not read" these are 3 examples were i had objective data and it just got hacked by you with the COUNTER ARGUMENT "well that's just you" well no it issn´t. My opinion of the game is based on not only common sense. but i have actually done the best to my ability to provide examples that ANYONE can replicate and see for themselves. But you call it subjective- and that´s fine. > If you actually want to convince someone (god knows why) Same reason as you try to counter argue it, i point out flaws and you try to discredit them by quoting Riots outsourced statements.
: It's not about fun. It's about the ammount of time and money people have invested to this game. When you invest enough, you can't just drop it and be done with it.
Yeah, but you get Riot fanboys telling you: "hey, if you don´t enjoy the game, just quit"
: **1.) I don't believe in Riot statistics.** They are too different from what I see in game so fck what Rito says. Also they have no way to prove their statistics are real, not just Photoshoped picture. **2.) Toxicity is way less then it was before.** I started to play when Lucian got released and comparing the amount of toxicity then and today is unbelievable. In this case I back up Riot. Implementing insta chat ban system for extremely toxic players, and LeaverBuster system helped A TON. But also I changed my mentality - I always follow the MRF code (Mute, Report, Forget) so I try to remember the fun games, not the bad ones. Maybe I am biased but toxicity is way less than ever before. Also you can't get rid of it because thsi is ONLINE GAMING. There always will be toxicxity in competitive team based game where you kinda depend on other random people. **3.) League is here for 6 years now. 7 if you count beta. Of course peopel are getting tired.** Every day, same map, same champions, same stuff... its OK. People just need to take a break, play other games, then will come back to League. No worries. Sometimes I don't feel like playing for week or 2. But I always come back because I enjoy LoL. Also Overwatch is here - that is new, and exciting. But when that falls off people will come back. At least some of them. **4.) Riot is not listening to the community.** That will be the downfall. Lately they can't even admit they made a mistake and make amends, like they did in the past. Maybe money blinded them. Maybe they think they are too good to fall from grace but time will tell. **5.) And they are fcking up ranked gameplay nearly every patch.** We all hate new DynamicQ but they insist on showing it down our throats, backing it up with made up statistics. They promised ranked teams in Season 7 - if they don't bring them back that will be the end of League. Also plat players can't play with diamond friends now, dia3+ can't even paly with more than 2 friends... WTF Rito? And the latest BS of "if you wait in que for too long it will assign you some other role just to shorter que time... really? If I was high elo player, maining 2 roles, then forced to play a role I have no idea how to play, I would be angry. Yes, Riot is behaving strange lately, and I am bit afraid what will happen. :-C
> Toxicity is way less then it was before. I started to play when Lucian got released and comparing the amount of toxicity then and today is unbelievable. In this case I back up Riot. Implementing insta chat ban system for extremely toxic players, and LeaverBuster system helped A TON. But also I changed my mentality - I always follow the MRF code (Mute, Report, Forget) so I try to remember the fun games, not the bad ones. Maybe I am biased but toxicity is way less than ever before. Also you can't get rid of it because thsi is ONLINE GAMING. There always will be toxicxity in competitive team based game where you kinda depend on other random people. I made a post about this that was shut down after 3 hours, were i had some print screens from 100 games in a row, were 87 of the games someone was raging or trolling. The biggest counterargument to it was "Well your 100 games is nothing compared to the millions of games played every day" And while that is true, i am not the only one. Now, you can follow the "MRF" code. But honestly? if you have to force yourself to forget more than half your games then what is the point in playing? Its like playing the game with Alzheimer basically. you put in 1.000 hours but you should forget 600 of those hours and focus on the 400 hours were you kinda had fun. And in the end, if you are like me and played the game to climb elo, because that was part of the "fun" you still end up with a 51-55% winrate- meaning that in 100 games ( about 75 HOURS of gameplay) you get somewhere between 20-100 LP. if you don´t tilt that is. In my new game- ARK:survival of the fittest, you can actually play a 4 man team. were you either have to work together, or die. and if you Die before your other teamates does, then you LOSE LP while your team can actually gain LP without even winning the game, as long as they are the top 1-4th surviving team. And that community is just amazing. Also, the top 10 every month gets real cash, like BIG cash, witch is a huge incentive to not troll games, like its hard to troll a game as it is. And IF someone is toxic, then you can basically just run away from him and find a better spot.
Rioter Comments
Eveninn (EUW)
: I personally don't care what who says, I can judge the quality of the game and comunity myself. And my judgment/opinion is that it's totally fine and I wanna keep playing. If I wouldn't feel so, I'd be gone already.
You don't get affected by advertisement, do you?
: > [{quoted}](name=Goofrian,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=h654EVFl,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-05-31T11:23:00.253+0000) > > No, just like if i lived in 1920 i would be called a crazed hippie because i state that smoking is bad. > You know, since the cigarette companies said that it was not harmful or addictive. > I'd say this analogy would be spot on IF Riot was advertising the game as "toxic free" or "perfect community" kind of game, which they don't. Actually Riot is _trying_ to remove possible hazards from their products, something that cigarette companies do not. > Same thing is happening here, people are having their time wasted from people with boosted accounts, trolls, Dc, RC, flamers, intentional feeders, griefers etc.etc and there is no sign of improvement . Boosting - as in shared accounts - is being terminated by bans. Trolling is a highly subjective concept, something you regard as trolling might not be regarded as trolling by someone else. Someone could say (and have said) that me going Lux support is trolling. But is it? I think not, if I try my utmost to win the game. Trolling is sort of "grey area" where Riot needs to be extra careful to NOT ban players on false reasons. DC's - are handled by LeaverBuster already. And some DC's cannot be prevented, they simply can't. I have left 0 games but if my ISP for somereason might experience connection terminating difficulties resulting to one DC in thousands of games, should I be banned for it? I know I left a game, even if unwillingly, and destroyed a game - should I be pissed if I get a minor LeaverBuster penalty? No, I shouldn't. Flamers - You can't really argue that they are NOT being banned constantly. And no system on Earth can predict what someone MIGHT do the next game they play. Intentional feeders (same as griefing atleast partially, right?) - Is again a subjective concept. Someone might consider a player losing a lane 0-5 intentional and some might not. Another "gray area" where authorities MUST be absolutely certain that the player is intentionally feeding to ensure a 100% correct ban. > But Riot states that its only a minority that do these things, therefore the community is not toxic, everything is great! right? Because the company that holds the product TELLS you that it is. The minority aspect here is mainly caused by the subjective variables in perceived toxicity. Lol has what, 40 million active accounts on EU alone? Riot has stated the minority being 5% of community - 2 million players. If even half of them would QQ on boards, it would mean 1 million "banned"-threads. Are there that many of those? So we could be talking about a vastly smaller pool of players actually getting punished by the system, meaning that the minority is probably _even_ smaller than Riot let's us understand. So we are speaking about a very minor group here compared to the community as a whole.
> I'd say this analogy would be spot on IF Riot was advertising the game as "toxic free" or "perfect community" kind of game, which they don't. > > Actually Riot is trying to remove possible hazards from their products, something that cigarette companies do not. *Riot is claming that they are doing their best to remove, i chose not to believe it until i see proof of it. And cigarette companies publicly donate to cancer research for advertisement- because they are trying to remove possible hazards from their products. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree with everything on how trolling and griefing are grey areas, but there is a huge difference between Riot being careful and not doing anything at all. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The minority aspect here is mainly caused by the subjective variables in perceived toxicity. > > Lol has what, 40 million active accounts on EU alone? Riot has stated the minority being 5% of community - 2 million players. If even half of them would QQ on boards, it would mean 1 million "banned"-threads. Are there that many of those? So we could be talking about a vastly smaller pool of players actually getting punished by the system, meaning that the minority is probably even smaller than Riot let's us understand. So we are speaking about a very minor group here compared to the community as a whole. Here is were we clash a little bit. Because Riot "states" and Riot "claims" are just words- there is no actual proof (Riot Lytes research is said to be published in 2017, so until then) I have stated this in other anwsers, but each year about 100.000 people get punished- not people, one of their accounts gets banned- i do not know a single person that does not have a smurf, but say that 50% of the 40 million player base has ONE smurf that's 60 million accounts. Out of the 100.000 players that are punished, a very small % are actually permabanned- and that does not stop or reform most players, they simply just go to their smurf and do the same thing over and over again. People think i´m some sort of Tyler1 fanboy, but actually, i just think that they should ban more players like him, in the same way- REMOVE the person from the game. That is why i do not believe that the banning system is working, because it does not reform players, it does not solve the problem and it is generally ineffective. But every time i bring it up- state the facts that i have accumulated over the years- i simply just get this picture. I want to go on and talk about the 5% and how the 5% affect almost 1/3 of all games mathematically. But ive been arguing for days xD I will come back another time when i am fit for fight again. The only reason i am trying to spread the word and show people that Riot is not doing their job considering their funding and the technology they have in hand is because this game has so much potential.
Enlight13 (EUW)
: "There is no sign of improvement." I am sorry but humanity has existed for over a centuries now and yet still we can't stop the negative behaviour in our physical society. What makes you think a company can completely shut down human beings in a VIRTUAL society where no law passed is really a law that can physically harm you? The community is not something riot can personally do anything about if they want to stay riot games. They have their rules of ruling and so your opinions don't count. And yes BTW,it is a minority that are doing it. Most people have lives and simply can't afford to ruin their own experiences.
This is the best counterargument i have had sofar. Only real objection i have is "And yes BTW,it is a minority that are doing it. Most people have lives and simply can't afford to ruin their own experiences." Its not a minority. and people ruin other peoples games because they enjoy it. And my problem is not that Riot has rules, heck, i´m even kinda okay with the community being toxic. All i am saying is that Riot does not enforce their own rules.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
> I've read this paper that studied specifically data extrapolated from the old Tribunal: link broken, do you mind sending it again? i´m not sure if i have read that one. The first one worked. Lets have a look at the source. "Activision // joysik.com // Forbes.com // vgcartz.com // prnewswire.com // Statista.com //Stemgraph.net // youtube.com // facebook.com // wsj.com // Riot games" I went into each site and did a cross reference - couldnt find anything anywere exept for the playerbase that i found on Forbes.com But i will look into everything- so far the sources are not holding at all and they are more vague and hard to find. The whole thing is based on the player base and general math based on it. Also, nothing here has anything to do with the toxic community or the banning system. But let me counter this then with this: "Riot is scamming players" Source: Internet // My bank account Kinda ridiculous right? well if i fancy it up a bit, with some graphical design and a out of context quote from Riot then tada! you have that post right there. But ill come back to this if i find everything. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Oh, the current system does it already. It's just that it's tuned to be very forgiving. Because if it weren't, eventually the whole playerbase would be banned for having an outburst, and it's the exact opposite of what a gaming company wants. > With a emphasis on "very forgiving" and that is why it does not work. What the company wants is to make money and i understand the balance that they have to have, the game cant be to toxic so the game will become unplayable altogether But at the same time they cant punish people to hard- i get that. But saying that the banning system works as well as Riot says it does, or that the number of toxic players are just a very small minority, well that's just a lie. I´m actually drawing a reference to the tobacco industry now. in 1930- the companies had hard evidence that smoking causes cancer and was addictive. Every one that claimed that smoking was harmful got absolutely destroyed by popular opinion and the tobacco industry saying that "smoking is actually good for you, here is a study we made, with a source that is on our payroll" it was not until 1970 were a document leak actually gave proof on what the public already kinda knew about but since the companies said it was safe, then it was safe. It´s the same here with the riots banning system. even if i were to record the next 50.000 games with a detailed analysis and with the backup from Stephen Hawking to confirm that my findings are 100% correct. I would STILL get "well your own personal experience does not matter, Riot said and i have not had a troll in my games for like 100 games or so" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I can't see the poll results because I can't vote in it. > > But I'm not assuming, it's a fact that boards and reddit populations are nowhere near the majority of the playerbase. Its a sample base, but again, you are just dismissing it because it´s not what you want it to be, the very same thing that you are accusing me of doing. on the contrary, earlier in the posts i linked you, i actually informed about things that Riot has claimed, for example: positive attitude does improve the win rate and you actually get more games with people who are not toxic the next game if you were positive in the previous one. But even with the positive attitude applied, more than 40% of the teams that had a positive player had at least 1 toxic/intentional feeding/afk/Rq/trolling player in it. And by Riots claims, you should only get these types of people in 0.1% of your games.
: Ooooooooor.....stay with me, this is a long shot,.... people simply don't share your opinion?
No, just like if i lived in 1920 i would be called a crazed hippie because i state that smoking is bad. You know, since the cigarette companies said that it was not harmful or addictive. Same thing is happening here, people are having their time wasted from people with boosted accounts, trolls, Dc, RC, flamers, intentional feeders, griefers etc.etc and there is no sign of improvement . But Riot states that its only a minority that do these things, therefore the community is not toxic, everything is great! right? Because the company that holds the product TELLS you that it is.
Rioter Comments
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
No i said "Then you can without assuming say that the player will get triggered again if put in a similar situation." and "The probability of it happening again is almost a fact- with a few exceptions" Because rare things happen in life, someone just died, tragedy, got fierd. But i think its naive to think that people are constantly happy or constantly sad even without rare big events. Don't you? I mean my mood can change just after one bad game in league, and i am sure plenty of others have the same thing. My mood became a bit offset, from enjoying this discussion with you to becoming a bit annoyed that you have resorted to taking things out of context, dismissing and ignoring previous statements and trying to find loopholes by doing so. instead of doing what you usually do when we talk - questioning with sound rhetoric. Edit: might be because i have annoyed you with my answers? Because sometimes i can type things that i do not find offending, but for others - it gets misinterpreted. And if that is the case, then i apologize because i don't like pissing contests.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
> Guess what, Riot analyzes billions worth of data... which is far more than you can claim you did. And were is the source? because all they have sofar is their word, i mean i could just use salty posts from the board as a source and it would still be more viable than Riots "well we have data, but you cant see it" But ill humor the argument and say that Riots data is correct: if they have all this data, how come toxic behavior still exists in the game, i mean if they have ALL the information then it would be fairly easy to implement a algorithm that could spot individual players that are toxic and ban them on the spot. > Which is what, 1% of the community at best? How is a minority of people complaining speaking for the majority of silent bystanders? You're assuming that everyone shares the same negative opinion as the loud minority. Well now YOU are assuming. Lets not forget the link i sent were i actually had a poll going http://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/yZ72aExU-be-part-of-my-studie and http://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/9r0Xynfl-after-watching-riot-lyte-on-gdc-vault But ill humor this argument as well with a counterargument: Staying silent and being a bystander instead of taking action is the same as agreeing with the wrongdoer. "Evil prevails when good men do nothing" > Your source is your own flawed and partial data... Riot's has access to BILLIONS of data worldwide, and if Lyte's words still stay true, they're supposed to be published somewhere in 2017. > More "source" than that data... Oh and by the way, the player behaviour data can be accessed by scientific institutions and universities that request that. Well my data is not flawed, i don´t know were you get that from, just because you do not agree with it does not make it flawed. Its not partial either- when i gathered the data a year ago i did so in a objective manner- as i provided you with a link on how i went about gathering some of the information- i had the same method of obtaining everything ells. But you are correct, if it gets published at 2017 (i have been requesting data since 2014) then i can get a bigger understanding and also change my own opinion on it if the source data is there and not just the findings. > You're basically saying that everyone who agrees with Riot and not with you is an extremist or a mindless cretin. > > Have you ever considered that it's just a matter of choosing who looks more trustable? And to be honest, since your "data" is shown nowhere - just your own conclusions on it -, we can safely say that your own claims are biting you in the butt. No, and i am sorry if that is how you perceive it. I am saying that instead of countering facts with facts- people, including you right now: are taking one persons findings and twisting it to something that looks like a opinion. It should be "these are the facts i have, therefore i have this opinion of it" and then the counterargument is "well i have these facts, so my opinion is different" and then you make a consensus. How it is: "These are the facts i have, therefore i have this opinion of it" and the counterargument is "Your opinion is wrong and i shall now address every opinion you have and counter it with my own.- with the promise of proof next year" more or less. And as far as my data is shown, i have made plenty of references to data while as i have revived 0 counter references. so therefore i make the parallel between arguing about this and having a argument with a extreme feminist or extreme religious person. instead of "i can agree with some of it" its "anything you say is bullshit because it goes against my beliefs"
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
I´ll give 2 reply's because you do have a very strong point in: "And you know that they're consistently toxic, how...? Because consistency is the key factor here, not your own opinion." And i feel that you should had highlighted this one because i almost missed it. Well first the definition of consistency is that something happens within specific intervals during specific circumstances more or less, right? for example: if i say hello to you on the street, you will say hello back, that is consistent. I want to give a ton of examples but i feel like that would be undermining your intelligence, i know that you know what i mean. So when someone trolls a game, from intentional feeding, flaming, och simply just trolls the other players in order to get a reaction: It means that something triggered the person to do so, correct? Now, League does not have a lot of variation to it when it comes to roles,maps, objectives and so on. And games do follow a very specific pattern. So with the consistency of League itself and the meta, then the "trigger factor" will more or less be consistent in any given game. Meaning that if you get a toxic person, a troll, intentional feeder etc.etc. Then you can without assuming say that the player will get triggered again if put in a similar situation. The odds of it just being a one time thing are very,very small. And even if it was the players first time in trolling a game in just my game, Since there is no punishment for him- the probability of it happening again is almost a fact- with a few exceptions like if say the player was in a temporary psychosis. Now nothing of this is my own opinion, this is just psychology and behavioral patterns that are completely natural. There are some very good books about this: http://www.amazon.com/Art-Reading-Minds-Henrik-Fexeus/dp/9187173107 https://www.amazon.co.uk/When-You-Do-What-Want/dp/9861751963 In these two books it becomes incredibly easy to learn about human consistency, priming and behavioral patterns. The books are based on well known theories and facts.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
Actually, i trust not only 3 years of my own observations of league, i also have 30 people that i have been playing with for the past 3 years that say the same. Most studies involve less time and less data than that. like [this one](http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/srt.12094/abstract) Or [this one](https://books.google.se/books?id=dvyNCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA29&lpg=PA29&dq=studies+on+300+men+and+women&source=bl&ots=le6xn_xrOh&sig=NxzlMsCb3_pl89qzxZ_mJylUukU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj_46Six_PMAhXMCywKHXW1C38Q6AEIPjAI#v=onepage&q=studies%20on%20300%20men%20and%20women&f=false) Or [this](http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/09/10/439190586/marine-corps-study-finds-all-male-combat-units-faster-than-mixed-units) These are studies with a 300-600 studie points in them, and they are taken as "truth" until proven otherwise. I have played over 3000 games were i have interacted with aprox 26.000-27.000 players, and the mentioned other 30 people have played about the same amount as me. so the sum total is about 780.000 players that 30 people have made observations on NOW THAT! is data And when you make observations you may state your findings, based on the interactions. And i actually DID THAT last year. [1](http://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/HdHATMRl-a-critics-request) [2](http://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/XETOWfHF-why-its-easy-to-become-very-bitter-long-post) [3](http://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/N0rH57JF-psychics-does-not-exist-and-that-helps-in-league) [4](http://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/yZ72aExU-be-part-of-my-studie) Everything here is Information that you can find and re-create for yourself- it has Sources, it is based on the Scientific method on gathering information and i also use references from other studies that has high credibility. I also trust the infinite number of board posts were people are complaining about the toxic community in the game. I also trust the number of games were i have spectated and seen the trolls from a objective standpoint. I also trust the number of streamers that has addressed the issues in league, like toxic people in the game. The only people that are saying the game is all sunshine and butterflies is Riot. At least i can show a SOURCE to my claims of the community being broken and toxic. as in Riot have no source whatsoever to their claims that we can check on, more than Riots own word on it. So as far as me "assuming" things, No actually the only assumption that i have done is apparently incorrect and that is the assumption that people would actually demand a better system from Riot instead of just following what they have been told to be true without critical thinking. But you can twist and turn it however you want in order to tell yourself that this community is NOT toxic, and that the banning system works, and that the game is fair. There are plenty of extreme feminists or extreme religious people in the world that have the exact same mindset "**_i believe even tho there are no facts backing this up, and i will not go against what i believe in, I trust in what my group/boss/leader/god/riot is saying even if it means abandoning my own critical thinking_**" And even IF my claims are incorrect, i still have a source, Riot, has not.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
Exactly, they are playing on new accounts. Like i have played with at least 20 people last week alone that just needs to get removed from the game entirely The whole point of the banning system was to make League less toxic- and its still the most toxic community in gaming history. Saying: Well 100.000 accounts get banned every year in a game that has 50 million players with a average of 2 accounts each tells me that the banning system is working. Even tho the majority of all games played there is always someone flaming,trolling or intentionally feeding. Banning 50% of 0.1% of the community's accounts when 51% of the community is toxic is NOT a working system
: > [{quoted}](name=Goofrian,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=rrdEFomi,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-05-30T18:36:40.008+0000) > > Because he came back 19 times and did not reform 19 times, witch is the whole POINT of the banning system is it not? Hence why Riot say that subsequent accounts confirmed to be him will be banned on sight, irrespective of how much toxicity they have or haven't accrued. The whole "reformation" aspect is for those who actually have the capacity to reform on some level, and given that Tyler is the only one known to get banned _that_ many times, it's pretty obvious that in the case of levels of toxicity, he's an _exception_, not a _rule_. It doesn't mean the automated system is a failure - it means that Tyler is obnoxiously-persistent.
Well then there are two exceptions now with "The Rain man" and there will be more to come for people who show just how toxic people are in this game and how riot has no effect on it. The game WILL be toxic, the community as a whole can get away with anything for a very,very,very long period of time before ONE of the accounts are banned. Its like i said: 100.000 players (accounts) are punished every year out of 50.000.000 players (with each player having one smurf that's 100 million) That means that if i go into a game- right now and intentionally feed, i will have a 0.1% chance of getting banned this year from it, if we are doing the odds that is. And even IF that account gets "punished" its a 3 strikes offense before i´m even banned, and even then that ban can get removed, it takes a lot more to get a account permabanned. But ok, 3 times i lost the 0.1% chance of being 1 of the 100.000 people punished this year. no problem, because i have 2 smurfs that i can just log on to and do the same thing- if i wanted to. i could ruin games for hundreds of people, before even the first ban gets there- hundreds of hours of other peoples time. actually i could be ruining peoples games indefinitely, since riot even has gone out in public on HOW the system detects people, i mean ive been in PLENTY of games were people have started to say "are you silver?" instead of "are you bronze?" just because they know that the system only knows that "bronze" is a bad thing to say. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But okay, lets say, just for the arguments sake that the banning system works and reforms 99.9% of all punished players. Did you know that toxic people actually create other toxic people? Riot knows that- they even state this in : http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1022160/More-Science-Behind-Shaping-Player so even if they manage to reform one player after they have affected say.. oh lets say that the banning system is flawless and bans people after one single game of trolling. Thats 4 people affected by that ONE toxic person and according to Riot- these people will have a bigger tendency to troll next game. And since the punishment does not REMOVE the actual player from the game itself (well except for tyler1 and The Rain man) Then the odds are that this reformed player will get effected by yet another troll- and he will fall back into his old ways. So even the logic that you are using- even in perfect conditions - are ineffective and in the end, Strengthens my argument that the banning system Riot has is NOT working
Silisa (EUNE)
: And how do you expect Riot to perma ban all smurf accounts a toxic player might have? It works for streamers because Riot can see what accounts they are playing on, no matter how many they create. Another reason for these ban on sight decisions is that streamers and youtube content creators are public personalities who, in a way, represent this game. Naturally, Riot will seek to make an example out of them.
Riot is NOT a poor company, Riot already has a HUGE database on the players, from E-mail addresses to credit cards. Riot has a Behavioral system in place that can detect if you are playing support or toplane The system can also grade you on how your game was. The grading system. Riot also has a report system in place. A company that makes the kind of money that Riot makes would with ease have found a way to see the behavioral pattern of a specific player, considering the database they have already.
Aonivar (EUW)
: This is rather disturbing to be honest. Let's, for the fun of it, compare trolling and being toxic with other stuff that's not allowed, breaking in and stealing! And let's then rewrite most of what you said: The message is clear: If you choose to break in and steal- do so without a webcam, because when you prove that the police has a hard time catching petty thieves, if you show people what you are doing on a daily basis and show people that the police is struggling to handle all petty theft and prove who did what and decide NOT TO INFORM THE PUBLIC OF WHO SUFFERS WHAT PUNISHMENT,- You will get locked up in prison and be removed from the daily life for a while. Sounds kinda _obvious_ to me, no?
Yeah you took one sentence and then wrote your own stuff. But ok. But let´s have this conversation about in real life and this game, since you drew the parallel. Riot is NOT a poor company, Riot already has a HUGE database on the players, from E-mail addresses to credit cards. Riot has a Behavioral system in place that can detect if you are playing support or toplane The system can also grade you on how your game was. The grading system. Riot also has a report system in place. So lets say that this was real life and Riot was the police- shall we? you know, since YOU drew the parallel. Riot would have a camera in your home, watching your every move at all times. There would be data collected on you every day, from what cloths you ware, the food you eat, the things you say, the people you talk to. EVERYTHING would be recorded. Also, if someone would see you stealing, they would report you. because that is what people do when they see a crime. Riot would ONLY punish a very,very,very small fraction of the reported people, even with overwhelming evidence. and even those who get punished, they get a slap on their wrist, they would NOT go to jail, they would be sent home with a fine. BUT if someone records themself's- proving that Riot is doing NOTHING about people breaking the law, will go to jail- for life. So yeah, it is _very obvious_ that Riot wants you to keep on trolling and being toxic as long as you don´t do it so that the masses can see. otherwise we would have a community tribunal.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
Because he came back 19 times and did not reform 19 times, witch is the whole POINT of the banning system is it not? He got REMOVED from the game after 19 times- THAT should be the meta
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Stop pretending elo hell doesn't exist
http://www.lolking.net/summoner/euw/21589296#matches/2681035072
: >"use the mute button- make it okay to be a asshole, YOU should be punished for not muting that person" Have you seen the Player Behavior boards recently? >"no the system works- Riot said so" No, the system works because of the hundreds of threads going "PERMA BAN? BUT I DIDNDU NUFIN".
for every thread were someone goes "i got premabanned" there are 10 other threads saying "ban this guy" showing a screenshot of someone trolling.
: So basically, you want to make the point that the attitude adopted by a minority of the entire community is exactly how everyone else plays, and decide to partake in such a mindset by explicitly breaking several rules and ruining other peoples' experiences out of the aforementioned petty vengeful agenda? People _are_ playing the game like the rest. And that's because your idea of "the rest" is not everyone else's. And I again reiterate that witnessing bad behaviour does not give you the moral right to behave just as badly, if not worse. If you come back to this forum complaining about getting banned, don't expect much in the way of sympathy.
I don't even know were to start with my answer here. Well first of lets address this statement- right here " you want to make the point that the attitude adopted by a minority" I know that its out of context. but ill stop right there, because it issnt the "minority" its the MAJORITY, more than 50% is the majority i get 4 teammates, right? agreed? its a 5 v 5 matchup. in 2/3 games, all 4 are either flaming or trolling in a all out keyboard fight on who can insult the hardest before going on full tilt and muting everybody. And yes i see that you are counter arguing that statement in "And that's because your idea of "the rest" is not everyone else's. " Good point: here is a [poll](http://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/yZ72aExU-be-part-of-my-studie) also [here](http://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/Azs3Owzv-soloq-is-frustrating-and-depressing), [here](http://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/r021OdPi-please-ban-this-guy) and [here](http://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/3BQKFXIm-trolers-never-stop) are just some random board posts for today were people are complaining based on "my idea" on how the game is. I could go all the way and just give you 10.000 more examples but in actually not that salty, and i understand your rhetoric. So lets get to: "petty vengeful agenda" In no way is this my way of revenge, because the games that i will play i will be playing with people that i have never played with before (probably) they have done me no harm so therefore i cannot take vengeance. However- I will play the game in the same way the majority of the players play the game, you can call it adapting, i call it testing. Testing to see if i have been wrong all these years in playing the game as a team player, forgiving, understanding and helpful as to the best of my ability. Becasue getting called cancer is not fun, getting a trundel toplane that tps botlane and farms lane without using chat in order to not get punished for it and get the rest of the team tilted and angry is not fun. But it might be fun for the trundle. So why not just try it out? since everybody ells is doing it, and everything i complain about these sorts of people i get comments like "If you do not enjoy the game, leave" "there is a mutebutton" "you should play for fun" and so on, and since my style of playing is no fun because no one ells wants to play like that. then the game might become fun if i try it the other way, right? In the process- i will record and do it publicly- Because everyone is always saying that the banning system works, im just gonna show that it does not- until they actually get it so painfully obvious that they have to either admit that the system is not working- or that they ban me and call it a success.
: > [{quoted}](name=Goofrian,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=86V6LzBA,comment-id=00040000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-24T14:57:09.515+0000) > > Riot states that their system is working and it reforms players. But since they do not provide any sources for ANY of their statistics then it becomes a opinion. So you want us to trust the experience and blinkered anecdotes of _one_ player over the people who not only have direct access to the data _and_ a view of the entire state of the community as a whole, but also the inner workings of the system designed to be kept out of sight of other players to avoid others gaming the system? That's..._cringeworthily_ one-sided. I can promise you, you wouldn't be making this assumption if Riot said something you agreed with, even if the trustworthiness factor was exactly the same as it is now.
Actually, i trust not only 3 years of my own observations of league, i also have 30 people that i have been playing with for the past 3 years that say the same. Most studies involve less time and less data than that. like [this one](http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/srt.12094/abstract) Or [this one](https://books.google.se/books?id=dvyNCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA29&lpg=PA29&dq=studies+on+300+men+and+women&source=bl&ots=le6xn_xrOh&sig=NxzlMsCb3_pl89qzxZ_mJylUukU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj_46Six_PMAhXMCywKHXW1C38Q6AEIPjAI#v=onepage&q=studies%20on%20300%20men%20and%20women&f=false) Or [this](http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/09/10/439190586/marine-corps-study-finds-all-male-combat-units-faster-than-mixed-units) These are studies with a 300-600 studie points in them, and they are taken as "truth" until proven otherwise. I have played over 3000 games were i have interacted with aprox 26.000-27.000 players. NOW THAT! is data And when you make observations you may state your findings, based on the interactions. And i actually DID THAT last year. [1](http://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/HdHATMRl-a-critics-request) [2](http://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/XETOWfHF-why-its-easy-to-become-very-bitter-long-post) [3](http://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/N0rH57JF-psychics-does-not-exist-and-that-helps-in-league) [4](http://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/yZ72aExU-be-part-of-my-studie) Everything here is Information that you can find and re-create for yourself- it has Sources, it is based on the Scientific method on gathering information and i also use references from other studies that has high credibility. I also trust the infinite number of board posts were people are complaining about the toxic community in the game. I also trust the number of games were i have spectated and seen the trolls from a objective standpoint. I also trust the number of streamers that has addressed the issues in league, like toxic people in the game. The only people that are saying the game is all sunshine and butterflies is Riot. At least i can show a SOURCE to my claims of the community being broken and toxic. as in Riot have no source whatsoever to their claims that we can check on, more than riots own word on it. And a ban wave that effect what? 100.000 players in a game that has 50.000.000 players. And out of those 100.000 players only ONE real perma ban for a player: Tyler1 And i agree on a LOT of things that Riot has to say. its just that they have 0 proof of it. But you can twist and turn it however you want in order to tell yourself that this community is NOT toxic, and that the banning system works, and that the game is fair. There are plenty of extreme feminists or extreme religious people in the world that have the exact same mindset "**_i believe even tho there are no facts backing this up, and i will not go against what i believe in, I trust in what my group/boss/leader/god/riot is saying even if it means abandoning my own critical thinking_**" And even IF my claims are incorrect, i still have a source, Riot, has not.
: Riots opinion? What opinion?
Riot states that their system is working and it reforms players. But since they do not provide any sources for ANY of their statistics then it becomes a opinion. A theory at best.
Smerk (EUW)
: Read some post in Player Behaviour subboard, there are a lot of posts from players that were banned even for lesser offences, but it takes time as with any other system
There are more posts on that board were people want other people to get banned then there is people who are complaining about their bans
D1nzu (EUW)
: Like you were the only person who's getting harassed. Jesus..
well ofc he is, riots banning system works. Everybody is telling me that the system works. sure, there is no evidence whatsoever that it does. but hey. RIOT said so
Smerk (EUW)
: Yes, it is considered as unsportsmanlike behaviour, you can report such players if you want, but it's not big offence, so he won't be banned just for one game with such behaviour
They don't even ban people that are spamming "i´ll slith your mothers throat you noob%%%" like the guy i had yesterday for two games. he is still playing so reporting for surrender spam.. ehh.
: Your opinion on it doesn't mean the system doesn't work.
And riots opinion does?
blissbomb (EUW)
: ***
"use the mute button- make it okay to be a asshole, YOU should be punished for not muting that person" "but what about punishing the toxic person?" "well just report him and move on" "yeah i did, the two games i had him in game, reported him both times, his match history id 97% losses and he is still playing" "no the system works- Riot said so" "Yeah but they have no source evidence for that- there is more empirical evidence that they are actually doing nothing, like this player for example" "but Tyler1!!" leaves
D1nzu (EUW)
: Its also disgusting you cant use the mute button
"use the mute button- make it okay to be a asshole, YOU should be punished for not muting that person" "but what about punishing the toxic person?" "well just report him and move on" "yeah i did, the two games i had him in game, reported him both times, his match history id 97% losses and he is still playing" "no the system works- Riot said so" "Yeah but they have no source evidence for that- there is more empirical evidence that they are actually doing nothing, like this player for example" "but Tyler1!!" *leaves*
Nakhishia (EUW)
: Wanting to play with sportmanlike people is understandable. But the community is a part of League. If you don't know how to handle them, then going over to No Mans Sky might be a good idea. Don't stick around if you feel like it is a pain to play. Go play something that makes you happy. And a lot of us are working towards a better community. But if people go from being sportsmanlike to an asshole just because others are assholes then you're just adding fuel to the fire.
A lot of you are trying, yeah. But you wont change anything, since the majority of the player base are assholes. I wanted the game to be what you are striving for, i have been doing my best to make the community better as well the last 3 years. But now, when the game comes out- i am just gonna play League like the majority, see what i have been missing out on. like the Diana from my last game- i´m gonna BE that guy.
: SOrry but only people who say it's a "toxic dump" are low elo people who can't climb and find excuses for it or flamers themselves and don't realise it. League isn't toxic at all.
Meh, plat 3 issnt high elo, but its not low elo either. And if i am a flamer and myself toxic, then it should just prove even more that the banning system does not work, right?
: > [{quoted}](name=Goofrian,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=86V6LzBA,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-05-23T16:14:11.494+0000) > > Because from 3 years of playing the game, i can tell you. this game is NOT about teamwork, good sportsmanship or doing the fundamental basic things in the game that you have to do in order to win. Oh, is that why literally the only thing the game asks of you is for you and four other people to _team_ up and destroy the nexus as the only prime objective? And is that also why the sportsmanship-based Summoner's Code is tied directly into the terms of use and the ban criteria? > No this game is about trolling others, making them tilt and flame you, so that you can report them and THEY get banned. Wait, when someone does something that makes you tilt, the best instinct is to report them post-match? Colour me surprised. What exactly are you trying to say here? > Because riot punish people who get angry at assholes. No, they punish people who retaliate. Getting angry isn't the problem, that's only natural. It starts getting problematic when you let it out in-game, thus making the experience worse for your teammates and, as Nakhishia has already said, reducing yourself to the level of the same people you're complaining about. You don't want to get punished? Don't become part of the problem. Witnessing bad behaviour does not give you the right to behave just as badly, if not worse. > Also, i will record the games, post it everywhere and wait for riot to ban me just because i´m doing it publicly And prove what? That the system works fine in punishing people out to cause trouble, whether it be out of mischief, frustration, or in your case, out of some petty vengeful agenda? Considering your retaliation-heavy philosophy when it comes to behaviour, I doubt many of us are going to sympathize unless you work to change that attitude.
Hey, if you want to take this text apart, word by word. then by all means. But i´m just stating my observation from 3 years of playing this game. *there is no teamwork *the majority of the player base is toxic (i know Riots reports that toxic people are rare, but they have no source data that we can check on to see if its true.. wonder why) *there is seldom any fundamental understanding of the game And all i´m doing, is just deciding to play exactly as the majority of the player base plays. -playing the game with the goal to make someone ells angry, and then troll them further until they flame so that the system picks up on it and they get punished. Because that´s the game, not winning, not loosing. its just one giant shitfest were you are pitted against each other in a team and the once that type the most or troll the most and gets away with it and gets another player banned, wins! For 3 years i told myself that it was about teamwork, productive and efficient communication, sportsmanlike behavior and a strive to become better and having a fundamental basic understanding of the game. And that was a lie. So, before i switch my game, why not just try to play the game like the rest?
Nakhishia (EUW)
: I don't see how my match history is relevant. And I don't want you to feel bad. But if you want to destroy other peoples matches then you're the one with the issue. And you're the kind of person who do care what we think. Otherwise you wouldn't go on the board trying to get attention. {{sticker:zombie-brand-clap}}
Actually i just wanted to vent and i cant talk about League in a Minecraft forum. And yeah i AM the one with a issue, that is true. But not anymore Because when the game comes out The issue that i have been having the last 3 years, like wanting to play with sportsmanlike people for example. Or not having to see "get cancer" every game or wanting the team to actually LEAVE the jungle. But instead, since i will not have a issue with it anymore, i will just play like the 99% i´m not ruining anything, i´m just playing like the community wants me to play
: No this game **IS** about team work. Just because you have bad games doesn't make it true.
Yeah, but it issnt tho. If people actually played the game like it was designed to be then League wouldn't be know as the toxic dump that it is.
Nakhishia (EUW)
: So you're going to stoop to their level? Wouldn't expect any less from such a weak person. Continue to spread the hate, that will show em. Right? {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
"So you're going to stoop to their level?" [ http://www.lolking.net/summoner/euw/70037971#matches](http://www.lolking.net/summoner/euw/70037971#matches) You mean, YOUR level? Actually, yes i am :) And you can try to trigger all you want, because unlike you, a person that WANTS people to feel bad, get angry just because well, you maybe have some issues in your IRL life, or its just that kind of a person you are. i don´t know and i don't care. I´m just trying it out, see what i have been missing all these years of playing according to the summoners code.
: THIS is your idea of revenge? Yours must be a very small mind indeed...
Well, its not revenge. Its me playing the game as riot and the community wants me to play. figure that ill try it before leaving the toxic wasteland that is League
Rioter Comments
ZseLotH (EUNE)
: "Step 1: If you are banning, always ban Ezreal. not so the enemy team gets him, Ban Ezreal so that you don't get to support that type of person that plays Ezreal. You don't WANT that attitude, you do not want to support a champ that is based on skill shots in this elo and you do not want to support a champ that does not have any push potential." Ez is safe adc to pick so dont ban him as he can manage on his own so you can roam more/ dont have to baby sit next to him.
A Ezreal will flame you for the following: 1. Leaving lane because "OMG I CANT 1 v 2" 2. Not following him under enemy turret at lvl 3 when enemy botlane has heal up "omg no follow" 3. Any misstake that ezreal does, from missing a CS to not seeing the enemy jungler ganking your lane even tho you pinged 10-20 times and you had a pink in push and a ward at drag ( has happend the last 5 games i have had a Ezreal in my team) + Ezreal does NOT have any pushing potential compared to Other safe champs, like Cait for example. + Ezreal has to be good at kiting, and this is lower elo- they cant kite. + Ezreal is based on skillshots, and its lower elo so they cant land skillshots + Ezreal needs to have good possitioning in order to have a good dmg output, and its lower elo so they don't know how to do that. Very, very,very few Ezreal players are worth supporting.
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Goofrian

Level 30 (EUW)
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