Kimshye (EUW)
: Why can't "wishing someone cancer" be permabanned instantly?
So many hyprocites here. We got black humor and such. People joke about cancer and 911, You dont need to take it srsly. I am not trying to defend the flamers btw, They do need to be punished, but insta permaban, cuz of the word cancer? The players may wish cancer, but They usually dont mean It, They are just tilted kids and They should be punished, but IMO, the comments here and the main post overreacts the word cancer and flaming. Not everyone can handle It bla bla.. Its ppl flaming you over the internet. You dont need to care any about them and Yes, It can be frustrating and give you bad mood, tilt you, If you are flamed by your teammate, I understand that and so flame should be punished, but dont overreact pls. I get wished cancer by my own father and I am not going to cry in the corner or some shit like that. I am staying on the road and keep living my life the best I can. Life can be hard and unfair, wishin cancer in a game? Is that your biggest concern? Someone said, not everyone could handle the flame, like him... What? How do they handle real life then? When they get bullied by a boss or thrown out by a gf or bf? Wishing cancer in a game? This is the smallest shit that can happen in life. Yeh, African kids fckin starve and Your biggest problem that someone wished cancer for you and your family? Yes, I came with fckin African kids, roast me.
: > [{quoted}](name=HappyAxidencts,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=3midwEnX,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-18T06:06:59.606+0000) > > Very strange fact, when serrated blade, 8 lethality, writes that I penetrate 10 armor at level 18. Fckin idiot. 1. Serrated dirk should have 10 lethality. 2. To prove my point (hoping this works): https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/215421146559021056/336632216694292480/image.jpg 18 lethality item, at level 18 penetrates 18 armour. 3. I just hopped into the training tool, bought a serrated dirk and it shows as 10 lethality and at level 18 it penetrates 10 armour. (You can check this for yourself as I don't know how to take a screenshot in league, a friend of mine did the above one)
> [{quoted}](name=Robindino14,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=3midwEnX,comment-id=000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-07-18T09:28:02.974+0000) > > 1. Serrated dirk should have 10 lethality. > 2. To prove my point (hoping this works): > https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/215421146559021056/336632216694292480/image.jpg > 18 lethality item, at level 18 penetrates 18 armour. > 3. I just hopped into the training tool, bought a serrated dirk and it shows as 10 lethality and at level 18 it penetrates 10 armour. (You can check this for yourself as I don't know how to take a screenshot in league, a friend of mine did the above one) They prob fixed It. Serrated dirk was 8 lethality when the patch came out. Since then, They had a silent patch, which also nerfed Duskblade ( not rly an efficient nerf ).
: Because darkin gives you sustain innately you dont really need lifesteal. He also has % hp dmg so you deal enough damage as long as you stay alive. I dont know how shadow assassin is built though.
> [{quoted}](name=K3tsu w0 t4beru,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=LbA5MuAA,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2017-07-18T20:58:23.722+0000) > > Because darkin gives you sustain innately you dont really need lifesteal. He also has % hp dmg so you deal enough damage as long as you stay alive. I dont know how shadow assassin is built though. I did try Cinderhulk build, I did not like It, even tho I buy BC and Titanic, I did not feel that tankier, cuz of the Cinderhulk and the Warrior gives 60 ad, which is good for AAs and more then 5% Max hp dmg on Q, which, If both Qs hits is 10% max hp dmg, even with Max hp damage, You dont build lethality on red Kayn, so I dont think He has enough damage without warrior.
Samanboss (EUW)
: Im bronze V, help me literally im carrying every game. People have actually not lagg network but lagg in their head in bronze league. TIP: NEVER EVER COME IN BRONZE LEAGUE ITS HORIBBLE {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
> [{quoted}](name=Samanboss,realm=EUW,application-id=2BfrHbKG,discussion-id=6ElkxQ2g,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-07-18T20:45:36.659+0000) > > Im bronze V, help me literally im carrying every game. People have actually not lagg network but lagg in their head in bronze league. > > TIP: NEVER EVER COME IN BRONZE LEAGUE ITS HORIBBLE > > {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}} Not so horrible, cuz a plat player can go 30 win streak in Bronze.
ThePikol (EUNE)
: I can bet none of you build Tabis. I'm sure all went some nonsense like {{item:3006}} {{item:3020}} {{item:3158}} . Tabi + another armor item really makes a difference. For Mage Zhonya, for adc GA and so on. If you still lose buy one more. You really don't need 6 dmg items in that situation. What you need is survivability.
> [{quoted}](name=ThePikol,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=3midwEnX,comment-id=000c00000000,timestamp=2017-07-18T05:31:25.824+0000) > > I can bet none of you build Tabis. I'm sure all went some nonsense like {{item:3006}} {{item:3020}} {{item:3158}} . Tabi + another armor item really makes a difference. For Mage Zhonya, for adc GA and so on. If you still lose buy one more. You really don't need 6 dmg items in that situation. What you need is survivability. Tabi is 30 armor. What does that help If They penetrate 100 armor and guess what, I build tabis most of the time.
: > [{quoted}](name=HappyAxidencts,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=3midwEnX,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-17T21:40:17.949+0000) > > No. 18 Lethality is around 20-21 armor pen on level 18 and, We got 20+ lethality in runes too, also You got mastery lethality too. 100 armor is nearly mitigated by 3 lethality items. Uhm no. 1 lethality= 1 flat armour pen at level 18... That is a fact. Also guess what, buying armour does help. Zhonya's 45 armour, relatively cheap and able to be bought early game. They'd probably have 1 lethality item then, which would give them with the leveling thing about 15 lethality rounded up. so 15 flat armour pen meaning you have 30 more armour.
> [{quoted}](name=Robindino14,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=3midwEnX,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-17T22:03:36.737+0000) > > Uhm no. > 1 lethality= 1 flat armour pen at level 18... > That is a fact. > Also guess what, buying armour does help. > Zhonya's 45 armour, relatively cheap and able to be bought early game. They'd probably have 1 lethality item then, which would give them with the leveling thing about 15 lethality rounded up. so 15 flat armour pen meaning you have 30 more armour. Very strange fact, when serrated blade, 8 lethality, writes that I penetrate 10 armor at level 18. Fckin idiot.
ThePikol (EUNE)
: Have you considered buying armor?
> [{quoted}](name=ThePikol,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=3midwEnX,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2017-07-17T21:06:09.866+0000) > > Have you considered buying armor? That does not work. Its why lethality is op. Its not hard to stack lethality that scales off of you and not the enemy's levels and new drakthar is just ridicolously strong. If the jungler and Lets say supp or top lane is tank, lets say we got 2 tanks, a bruiser and 2 carries. The 2 carries probably wont build fckin thornmail and no, Zhonya is not enough, You will still have 0 armor after zhonya, thats the problem, Its wasted money. They penetrate through the armor You buy, buying armor does not counter lethality, cuz thats what lethality do, kills armor. The bruiser probably wont build 200 armor and with 100 armor, He is penetrated to like 20 armor, so He has no defense. The tanks need to go super heavy armor, like 200-300 armor and but this may make their build inefficient in every way, be it cost or other factors.
: > [{quoted}](name=HappyAxidencts,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=3midwEnX,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-07-17T15:25:49.338+0000) > > Its time to stop! > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ5ZHCWxyUo > Fck, thats the wrong link > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k0SmqbBIpQ > > But rly, Lethality became super cancer, either lethality needs to be nerfed or the items that use lethality. You get Edge, Yoomu and Draktar, You fckin penetrate through 100 armor. Only 3 items and even tanks will die, imagine the other 3-4 champs who have 0 armor againts 2-3 items, while these items give huge ad and other rly good stuff. Your math is off. 18x3= 54 when the 'owner' of the items is lvl 18, quite a long way off from your supposed 100 armour pen.
> [{quoted}](name=Robindino14,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=3midwEnX,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-07-17T20:33:20.134+0000) > > Your math is off. > 18x3= 54 when the 'owner' of the items is lvl 18, quite a long way off from your supposed 100 armour pen. No. 18 Lethality is around 20-21 armor pen on level 18 and, We got 20+ lethality in runes too, also You got mastery lethality too. 100 armor is nearly mitigated by 3 lethality items.
qkex (EUW)
: THIS NEEDS TO STOP (lethality is cancer, especially the duskblade)
Its time to stop! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ5ZHCWxyUo Fck, thats the wrong link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k0SmqbBIpQ But rly, Lethality became super cancer, either lethality needs to be nerfed or the items that use lethality. You get Edge, Yoomu and Draktar, You fckin penetrate through 100 armor. Only 3 items and even tanks will die, imagine the other 3-4 champs who have 0 armor againts 2-3 items, while these items give huge ad and other rly good stuff.
munraker (EUW)
: All kyan in my team feed, enemy team feed...I now always ban him i dont take the risk He is trash imo
> [{quoted}](name=munraker,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=AaLdaMt7,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-07-17T12:35:29.482+0000) > > All kyan in my team feed, enemy team feed...I now always ban him i dont take the risk > > He is trash imo He is definitely not trash ( atleast in Red form ), Id call him subpar at worst. People feed with him, because He is new and They did not figure him out yet. But I do think He needs tweaks, Thats why I wrote this topic. EDIT: Also feeding could be, because of many factors. Match ups, enemy players are just better, things just dont go in your way in that match, now add in the fact that people are not experienced with Kayn and the match ups, the situations You can have with him and You got this feed fiesta.
: I don't think the ult is meant to deal damage... trying to get a utility ult to deal damage will always make it disappointing. The ult for assassin form is twofold... firstly it resets your passive so you use it after the passive expires and then use a full combo again which will result in much higher damage. Secondly it's untargetability. So you can use it to just dodge spells or wait for cooldowns like how some ap assassins use hourglass. I don't think it needs to deal damage because all its meant to do is keep you safe and enable damage, not deal damage itself. > Blue form is very weak if not snowballing resulting in the champion being inconsistent as he has no hard cc and only mediocre damage and mobility. Blue form passive/ultimate is also very underwhelming since the passive is negated by both armor and mr along with his ultimate dealing very little damage even to squishy targets. I get the feeling we don't understand assassin form enough... it's a lot harder than darkin form and has a lot more room for error which gets you killed. That means it has a much higher skill floor that potentially we haven't gotten over yet, combined with us being unsure on the build and the majority just going for darkin instead means that assassin was always gonna the weaker form until we start to understand him better... like with bard and ivern, considered weak yet they weren't because they where difficult... So I'd give assassin kayn a few more weeks to see if anyone can find some hidden potential to unlock..
> [{quoted}](name=swampert919,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=EfIrob0o,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-07-17T11:40:31.033+0000) > > I don't think the ult is meant to deal damage... trying to get a utility ult to deal damage will always make it disappointing. > > The ult for assassin form is twofold... firstly it resets your passive so you use it after the passive expires and then use a full combo again which will result in much higher damage. Secondly it's untargetability. So you can use it to just dodge spells or wait for cooldowns like how some ap assassins use hourglass. > I don't think it needs to deal damage because all its meant to do is keep you safe and enable damage, not deal damage itself. > > I get the feeling we don't understand assassin form enough... it's a lot harder than darkin form and has a lot more room for error which gets you killed. That means it has a much higher skill floor that potentially we haven't gotten over yet, combined with us being unsure on the build and the majority just going for darkin instead means that assassin was always gonna the weaker form until we start to understand him better... like with bard and ivern, considered weak yet they weren't because they where difficult... > > So I'd give assassin kayn a few more weeks to see if anyone can find some hidden potential to unlock.. Problem isnt that assasin form has higher skill ceiling, cuz He is harder, but He is harder, cuz He just falls behind. He is overall worse, less damage, less sustain etc... Even, If You could play him good, why would you play him good, If you can play red Kayn good too. Red Kayn has just better stats, thats all there is to It. Also Assasin form is assasin form, His ult should deal damage and It should be used for damage, cuz rn blue form is a "sustain assasin" which I dont rly think makes sense and should not exist. The reset on passive is rly nice, the passive itself could be nice, if it wouldnt be reduced twice, but fck, He is assasin, He cant waste 10 seconds to kill 1 target. Full combo R wait Full combo? Most assasin 1 combo enemies, and Blue form passive and ult untergetability here and there, It should deal more dmg. He is not bursty enough as an assasin and Red Kayn actually has better sutaint damage. Thats the problem.
Rioter Comments
BobbyB103 (EUW)
: Kayn's strength atm
I think Kayn is pretty balanced for a recent champion, but He does need some tweaks. His Red forms seems to be much stronger. I think I already got the feel of him and I can say That He isnt op and does not need nerfs, but nor He is weak. I feel like His early game is bad and, If He gets behind He perfoms worse then other champions when behind, but, If He does not get behind, He can get ridicolously strong, but Lets go over his abilities. **Q Reaping Slash:** His Q deals damage twice, is an AoE and late game has a low CD of 3 seconds, but Is not that strong. It deals little damage in blue form, and the dash isnt big. He should usually not use It to close distance and Its usually not a good escape ability, You can sometimes jump over a little wall and get some lead, but Its mostly used for damage dealing. It can deal a lot of damage in Red form mid/late game and even with Blue, but Thats cuz It is spammable. Early/mid game, His Q has longer cooldowns and, so the skill doesnt become rly good until rank 4-5 with 30-40 cdr. **W Blade's reach:** His W is a skill that most people call OP. They call It a better Sion Q, but I think his W is pretty balanced, but could use some tweaks. His Blue form's W feels very smooth and good to play with, but just falls behind the Knock the Red form gives. The Red form Kayn's knock is pretty good, but Is not a Sion Q, while It does not need to be charged, It does have a cast time and has a realively low range. Its not wide and is not long. In rank 1-2 early game, It does have a little bit long CD and low damage, while later It becomes pretty spammable with high damage. What I would say Is blue form's W is pretty good, should not be buffed, but still falls behind. I think, If how skills work can be changed around in Kayn's kit, then so should be cooldowns. _**My suggestion for nerf:**_ Red form W should have 2-4 seconds longer cooldown. (This would not just make Red Form's W a little bit less strong, but would make sure that blue form's W is a good choice too ) **E Shadow Step:** His E is an ability that most people overrate. It looks broken af, It looked broken af, running over multiple walls? WTF? But isnt rly that good. If the enemy has vision on the walls, They can see you are in there and They see an indicator that kinda shows where You are. Also, If you try to escape, They can hit you and you lose the buff and cant go into the wall or get knocked out from It. I found It ridicolous that people can attack me, while I am in the wall, If they have vision. Its a fckin wall, i should be untargetable there. ( that is the piece that would make the ability rly op ). Its not the worst ganking tool, but nor is the best. I think Its pretty balanced, but there are some changes I think would make it better. **_My Tweaks:_** The standard heal should be taken away and given to red form with a little bit better heal stats, while blue form should get a new buff on E, which makes so that in the first 2 seconds of activating, His E can not be interrupted by enemy attacks. **R Umbral Trespass:** _I could see most changes in this skill._ His Red form ult is said to be op by many ppl, but lets go over It. 30% Max hp damage ( which is not the starting, He starts around 12-16% max hp dmg ) is 600 on a 2k hp ADC, pre mitigation, most mitigation It could be around 400. Max hp % DMG, so why not use on Tanks? Use 40% Max hp dmg on a 4k hp tank, Thats 1600 dmg pre mitigation, but becaoues of the armor, It can be reduced as low as 600 dmg, which is pretty bearable for a tank, considering this is a tank killing ult and not just an ADC aa late game. Red form's heal is pretty op, Rhaast already gives Spell vamp and They usually build Death's dance, but the R has Its own heal too. Blue form ult refreshes his passive, which gets reduced twice by the enemy resistances, so It usually falls behind Red Kayn's heal. His ult does have Base damage, but not so much. His is supposedly the assasin form of Kayn, but I can not rly see It, If you are not ahead. You can be killed pretty easly, You doesnt rly have big mobility, considering both his E and Q, He is just not that mobile in a fight and Blue Kayn can not use the Knock up mid fights to gain some advantage on a kiting ADC, while He can move towards the enemy while W is casted, Its slow is much easier to counter then a knock up, which slows after you fall down. Oh, I wandered away from the R topic. _**So my tweaks for R would be:**_ **Red form:** Give It a base damage of Let's say 100-200-300 (20-40-60 Max AD scaling), Tone down the Max hp scaling from AD a bit and Take away the heal It gives. Taking away the heal would be rly healty change. He already has rly much heal and his R's heal is enemy Max hp. This would not just make his R deal more dmg on squishies but sometimes even on tanks, while He would not heal as much, which is good, cuz It can be seen as pretty broken and on the other hand, It can make him more shit to play againts griveous wounds. If the enemy buys griveous wounds, the more heal your champ has, the more heal that gets mitigated, which is a problem with Kayn, cuz Red Kayn's power is in his spell vamp, so His heal power should be transferred over to other things, becaouse, If everything on him is just heal heal, then He is much easier to be hard countered. He should not be wholly just be about the heals. **Blue form:** His ult should have a little bit more base damage, then Red Kayns and I think either should get better scaling or current hp damage next to the base dmg. Instead of 110, 160% bonus ad would look better or make him get Current % hp Damage. Why current and not missin? His Ult resets his passive and does not deal rly much dmg by Itself atm. Its usually used mid fight, to mitigate damage, waith for cooldowns, follow/stick to an enemy and to reset the passive as an assasin It could be made to be an assasinate ult and ppl already use it that way, but I think his ult should be Current hp dmg. It is mostly used in mid fights as I said. Its going to be weaker then Max hp dmg, but when the enemy has little more then half hp, Its better then missing hp damage, considering his passive and other factors, his ult could not rly be cheesed by using on full hp targets. You could say, If It has current hp and not missing hp It could be bad againts enemies that have lower amount of hp, but Thats where the base damage is needed. Againts low hp squishies, the Ult would still perform good with curring hp instead of missing hp damage. This is just my two cents, but I think These changes would not make him op, on the other hand would make him a much more balanced an healthy champion.

HappyAxidencts

Level 30 (EUW)
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