: And this is the problem with internet anonymity. Some people (actually quite a lot of people from what I've seen) think it's acceptable to write in chat that they wouldn't dream of saying in real life. The only solution I can think of is to restrict everyone's use of the chat, if not disable it entirely. Nobody in this thread is defending the Janna's words or actions. But at the same time you are asking for sympathy for a chain of events that you started. Let me put it another way for you. If you agitate a dog and the dog turns around and bites you, can you really claim to be 100% innocent? Let me ask you something. Why did you make this thread? What did you hope to achieve from this?
" I am looking forward to see your guys opinion." Turns out everyone here has the mindset of "you asked for it" I guess "You started it" "It's your fault". I guess in an analogy could be I slapped her and she got a machine gun out and started going rampage. It's not like I agitated a dog and the dog bit me. I have my logs every time I log in I see the logs and I absolutely did nothing wrong to have that said to me. I don't give 2 shits about your sympathy I just wanted to see how people would react about the unfairness of the system and all I got was "You started it". Well then that's a red flag not for the community in game but the community in forums this is the last time you and anyone here will hear from me. This whole thing this whole post and replies I got sounds to me like the rape arguments people have "She was asking for it" or "She shouldn't be dressing like that". I guess I can be a little hot headed but just for saying "Why would you ignite that" and getting a response like that I am absolutely not at fault for this. End of story.
JuiceBoxP (EUNE)
: I never said it was okay to call you that... And you don't have to be someone's punching bag, just mute them. problem solved.
My god dude I never asked for a solution I know what I have to do. All I wanted is this guy punished and clearly he is not getting punished since he is playing to this day right now...
: There is one key difference between the 2. Nobody intends to make a mistake (otherwise it wouldn't be a mistake) but you made a conscious decision to write in the chat. What Janna said to you was unforgivable, nobody will deny that. At the same time though you need to take responsibility for what you said. Did you need to say anything to her? Let me try to explain why Janna got angry at you. Imagine you are trying to cross a busy road. You think you see an opening and run forwards, not seeing the car that just appeared from a side road, almost hitting you. Then when you got to the other side a stranger walks up to you and says "why did you run out in front of that car?" How would you feel about a total stranger berating you in Public for your mistake? I don't know about you but I would be slightly pissed off and embarrassed about it. I certainly would be thanking them for pointing out my mistake.
You're making a great point here. Probably the first person that is rational in this forum. But let me tell you this. If that situation were to occur i wouldn't tell anyone "I hope you see your kids die" or anything so harsh to someone and IF I did that if I said something that horrific I would expect to catch a beating not just by him but by other bystanders that would be present there all I see in this forum is people defending that guy blaming me for what he said to me. And as I said on my post I am not trying to skip or run away from my punishment but looking at his op.gg this guy is still playing and I am chat restricted...I said this to another guys that commented here I will not be no ones punching bag just because they are not in their right mind...
JuiceBoxP (EUNE)
: If you don't understand how you initiated the flame there you have some serious social and understanding issues my friend. All your comments imply that you are missing the elephant in the room. You are the cause their anger, you started the flame war, you sent the first message.
"Why would you ignite there?" "I hope you see your kids die." How in the %%%% is that an ok response to you? You sit there and defend that person that's clearly not well and then you call me the cause of their anger? %%%% no I am not cause of their anger there are some other issues that they are dealing with and express them on me. I am not gonna be some kids punching bag because their mother won't buy them Vbucks and if you don't get that you're dealing with social and understanding issues "friend".
: Same argue can be used for "People making mistakes enrage other people"
Plus a "Yeah my bad" would be enough she had no rights to say "I hope you see your kids die" if you don't get it you're in the same bucket as her and you're a horrible person I am done talking to forum warriors that have no sense of justice and fairness
JuiceBoxP (EUNE)
: pointing out people's mistakes is what makes them enrage
Same argue can be used for "People making mistakes enrage other people"
: People that flame the most are the people that also troll and do this "hostage thing" To get banned it means you crossed a very big line. I play the game 9 years (+4 more than you) and i only ever got 2 chat restrictions which were well deserved. I flame too occasionally but you apparently took to another level Also, see you in 1 week after you buy an unranked smurf account. Have fun
You've been playing for 9 years and never actually got past gold. That doesn't say a lot about your attitude but from my understanding you either don't play the game enough. Since you don't really play the game enough you can't have an understanding of a how the community acts and works and for that matter you don't know how the ban system works. You don't have to cross any lines you can simple say "F..k you" get mass reported and get chat restricted that means if you keep that up and get mass reported you'll eventually be perma banned. The guy is complaining about trolls afks and inters that are actively trying to ruin your experience AND never get punished. If he did the same thing he's account would be unlocked right now and he would be able to play the game like all of us. I've had 1 perma banned account myself and what I got from it is when I get upset I mute all and not try anymore there is no point of trying to win a match when the others aren't trying themselves now afk has the low priority system so the thing to do when you get upset is just run it down. The system will think it's just a bad game and there you go nothing happens to you. But if I try to call out the support shaco for example (happened to me yesterday) he'll just report me and get me punished for what HE did which was troll, ruin my experience and 3 others (cause let's be honest when it comes to ranked i wish i had enemy shaco supports). But yeah a good tip is keep on inting people that get upset there is no way to punish you. :)
PH45 (EUNE)
: I don't know why everyone feels the need to pointlessly argue in-game. In-game you should be trying to win instead of working against your team. If someone is acting like a monkey just mute the and report them after game instead of wasting your effort trying to ''defend'' yourself. Also the ''defend myself'' is just a nice way of saying you counterflamed, which isn't any better from regular flaming.
So I am supposed to act like a bot in an online videogame that has human interaction and since the start of human kind there are conflicts with each other. I don't get why wouldn't I be able to talk sh..t back when when they literally wished the most horrific thing that could happen to someone.
: You say you aren't allowed to defend yourself but in both games you imply that you initiated the conversation.
First game : "Why would you ignite there?" then janna responds the way she did. 2nd Game: "Not much I can do with this Shaco support" malza responds with "Shaco support is good you re....rd no life plat noob" I don't see how i initiated the flame here was I looking for a response absolutely yes did I think that i'd get ganged up by the 2 premades no I absolutely didn't.
Tarolock (EUNE)
: and what makes you think that they should be banned? from your story it seems like they just flamed like you, so how do you know that they did not get a chat restriction like you? because for that you wont get the message that they got it
Saying someone that and i quote "I hope you see your kids die" is not a chat restriction thing it's easily a 2 week ban you're clearly not in your right mind.
JuiceBoxP (EUNE)
: Defend yourself? From what i understand, you initiated the flame party..
Flame party for asking this janna why would she ignite that? Is that a reason for her to tell me "I hope you see your kids die" ?
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Hardstuck Draven,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=7Y0fh5sG,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-09T12:28:56.135+0000) > > My point is that he got indefinite ban and they lifted that ban why can't i be unbanned myself why can't I get something for reforming? You get the chance to have other accounts. That are not banned .
> [{quoted}](name=starkk1234,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=7Y0fh5sG,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-10T05:47:27.519+0000) > > You get the chance to have other accounts. That are not banned . Yeah so you treat equal a murderer and a thief congrats...
: > [{quoted}](name=Hardstuck Draven,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=7Y0fh5sG,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-08T03:15:55.849+0000) > > The fact that the accounts still exist says otherwise.They can change their policy if they want to it's just this community is so toxic with each other that even the non-banned players support the decision for someone to never have their account back...That's the saddest how even the guy that has 1 game per year and doesn't give a shit has a saying about the game.I've seen waaaay too many ''emisaries'' from riot on the boards that critic me for having my account perma-banned like I am not a human being anymore they don't promote changing your ways they don't factor the real life issues you could have at the time and most cetaintly they don't factor you if you got a ban,all they factor is money aka did T1 being a top streamer on twitch brought players back ABSOLUTELY even if he got 22 permabanned accounts promote toxicity and was overall a problem to the community BUT SCRATCH ALL THIS HE BRINGS PLAYERS AKA MONEY,so the reasonable thing was to unban him he (probably) didn't even level his account or his previous accounts he bought them that's another term of service he broke but still got his job back but what are we,just mere people that doesn't provide anything more to the game than just another player out of the millions out there we won't be treated equally we will just be treated in the harshest way possible.By the way I am pretty sure riot is so harsh with the flaming side of the toxic players cause they are INCAPABLE of catching the real toxic players aka trolls,inters and afks I decided I will join that squad the protected squad if a game is not going my way and I will be on the verge of flaming I'll just int :) You have exactly the same opportunity as t1. Noone is stopping you from making 22 accounts and banning all of them for toxicity and then make some more. Dont know what your point is.
> [{quoted}](name=starkk1234,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=7Y0fh5sG,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-09T09:22:59.417+0000) > > You have exactly the same opportunity as t1. Noone is stopping you from making 22 accounts and banning all of them for toxicity and then make some more. Dont know what your point is. My point is that he got indefinite ban and they lifted that ban why can't i be unbanned myself why can't I get something for reforming?
: > [{quoted}](name=Frøst,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=7Y0fh5sG,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-02T11:20:28.991+0000) > > I'm asking them to add a feature for everyone, not just me. It can be controlled by bots and I don't think it's that hard to do. And that is my point. They will never do that for everyone, because there are way to many flamers out there.honestly i dont really care about my account even tho i had lots of skins and champs, it was my fault i accept it, made new account stopped spending money on this game and thats that. If i had my main account i would still be spilling money in this game so no tnks.
> [{quoted}](name=starkk1234,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=7Y0fh5sG,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-03T06:48:31.510+0000) > > And that is my point. They will never do that for everyone, because there are way to many flamers out there.honestly i dont really care about my account even tho i had lots of skins and champs, it was my fault i accept it, made new account stopped spending money on this game and thats that. If i had my main account i would still be spilling money in this game so no tnks. The fact that the accounts still exist says otherwise.They can change their policy if they want to it's just this community is so toxic with each other that even the non-banned players support the decision for someone to never have their account back...That's the saddest how even the guy that has 1 game per year and doesn't give a shit has a saying about the game.I've seen waaaay too many ''emisaries'' from riot on the boards that critic me for having my account perma-banned like I am not a human being anymore they don't promote changing your ways they don't factor the real life issues you could have at the time and most cetaintly they don't factor you if you got a ban,all they factor is money aka did T1 being a top streamer on twitch brought players back ABSOLUTELY even if he got 22 permabanned accounts promote toxicity and was overall a problem to the community BUT SCRATCH ALL THIS HE BRINGS PLAYERS AKA MONEY,so the reasonable thing was to unban him he (probably) didn't even level his account or his previous accounts he bought them that's another term of service he broke but still got his job back but what are we,just mere people that doesn't provide anything more to the game than just another player out of the millions out there we won't be treated equally we will just be treated in the harshest way possible.By the way I am pretty sure riot is so harsh with the flaming side of the toxic players cause they are INCAPABLE of catching the real toxic players aka trolls,inters and afks I decided I will join that squad the protected squad if a game is not going my way and I will be on the verge of flaming I'll just int :)
Shiwah (EUW)
: And how do you know they are the "right" people? How would you convince Riot you are the "right" person?
> [{quoted}](name=Shiwah,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=7Y0fh5sG,comment-id=0000000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-06T15:02:59.339+0000) > > And how do you know they are the "right" people? How would you convince Riot you are the "right" person? Let them reach out to you and don't reach out to them...Everyone who cares enough about his account will reform and will not be toxic anymore easy as that
Shiwah (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Hardstuck Draven,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=7Y0fh5sG,comment-id=0000000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-05T22:06:50.559+0000) > > Cause they got people that pretended to be reformed. And? The point of the test was to see if they were as reformed as they claimed, which is to say, none at all... So, can you tell me how and why Riot would trust you to be reformed enough to not get your main permabanned again? Saying "I am reformed" is not enpugh assurance anymore. Countless people came before you, claimed the same and we see the results of that.
> [{quoted}](name=Shiwah,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=7Y0fh5sG,comment-id=00000001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-06T09:16:10.433+0000) > > And? The point of the test was to see if they were as reformed as they claimed, which is to say, none at all... > So, can you tell me how and why Riot would trust you to be reformed enough to not get your main permabanned again? Saying "I am reformed" is not enpugh assurance anymore. Countless people came before you, claimed the same and we see the results of that. So what I am not your everyday man dude I am my own self don't put me in the same basket as the rest of your players just because you can't choose the right people for a simple experiment doesn't mean you should stop it...Jesus christ I don't what's worst the community or the company...
: My view on the thing is - after spending nearly 8 years and 2K$ here : I don't give a shit about balance and toxicity. I am a mature enough person that I can deal with edgy preteens who want to tilt me, and simply ignore them, like you do with a crying child on a plane. And balance, I have bans in draft pick, I have conterpicks, I consider myself a good enough player to deal with the issues the game can have. - my answer might be a bit narcissistic - couldn't care less LOL. First off - League is free to play - if someone doesn't like how things are, they can go play another game. Secondly - and I'll be the real one here : Most of the "unbalanced" posts are made by high-bronze / mid-silver players, after getting stomped in a SPECIFIC matchup. If I get on my smurf tomorrow and play 10 lethality garen jungle games - I'm inclined towards the fact - that I might generate some salty posts on the forum, on how GA rush (trollbuild) garen is totally busted, and some silver dude trying to kid himself with his little arguments, why is that so. For me it's amusing - I might be a sociopath for this - but I actually love reading q.q threads made by low-ELOs and have a good chuckle on the delusional shit they throw around - as arguments.
Gold 4 "good player" by the way :)
Shiwah (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Hardstuck Draven,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=7Y0fh5sG,comment-id=00000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-05T21:05:12.654+0000) > > So the sample was wrong isn't it? Why would that be wrong?
> [{quoted}](name=Shiwah,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=7Y0fh5sG,comment-id=000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-05T21:54:59.783+0000) > > Why would that be wrong? Cause they got people that pretended to be reformed.Ofcourse I get upset while playing the game but I don't write in chat anymore that's what makes me reformed I don't get my emotions to the chat anymore and I don't see you quoting what I said before that If I didn't flame and instead of flaming i inted or afked I would still have my account back...Probably because it's true right??That's the sad part with this banning system you say 1 word you're punished you int 20 games you're still good to go as long as it's not obvious and hit a champion once in a while and people know that now and they are inting more and afk more on their games.So since this community is absolutely SHIT and it won't change for a long time give us a CHANCE to get out accounts back so we maybe still enjoy playing this game again...
Shiwah (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Hardstuck Draven,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=7Y0fh5sG,comment-id=000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-05T20:20:12.976+0000) > > Still though in this case even if it's the 1% that succeed in this experiment it's a win.They actually reformed they actually changed their ways why wouldn't they get another chance on their account cause Riot banned them for 2 weeks and then permabanned them? They actually got banned again... so, they didn't really reform, they only pretended they did.
> [{quoted}](name=Shiwah,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=7Y0fh5sG,comment-id=0000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-05T20:38:21.208+0000) > > They actually got banned again... so, they didn't really reform, they only pretended they did. So the sample was wrong isn't it?I am not gonna tlak about me I am gonna talk about OP this guy has no punishments for 1 year as he claims it may be true it may not doesn't he deserve a chance to play on his old account back?Anyway I can't believe we're arguing about chances right now all we do is ask for a chance and riot denies that meanwhile if instead of flame I inted and afked the games that got me frustrated I would still have my account congrats Riot you truely take care of this games community :)
Shiwah (EUW)
: You're basing it on the assumption that the sample was small. Though, an experiment that lasted for a few years is very likely to not have had a small sample size.
> [{quoted}](name=Shiwah,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=7Y0fh5sG,comment-id=00000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-05T20:12:19.410+0000) > > You're basing it on the assumption that the sample was small. Though, an experiment that lasted for a few years is very likely to not have had a small sample size. Still though in this case even if it's the 1% that succeed in this experiment it's a win.They actually reformed they actually changed their ways why wouldn't they get another chance on their account cause Riot banned them for 2 weeks and then permabanned them?And again if the sample is too small you can't just say that it will never work...Even if it lasted for a few years which I doubt and will do research on it if it's the 1% of the existing permabanned accounts it's too small of a sample...
Shiwah (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Hardstuck Draven,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=7Y0fh5sG,comment-id=000000000001000100000000,timestamp=2018-07-05T20:08:50.765+0000) > > No I didn't get the same reward I got nothing just a banned account I didn't have 22 permabanned accounts and I didn't got indefinite ban. Then you're even luckier than him, you invested (and lost) way less than him. > I got no opportunities maybe if I hosted my tournament with 10k dollards reward then maybe I'd get my account back right? Of course not.
> [{quoted}](name=Shiwah,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=7Y0fh5sG,comment-id=0000000000010001000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-05T20:09:55.608+0000) > > Then you're even luckier than him, you invested (and lost) way less than him. > > Of course not. Scratch the last commend I said I didn't write what I meant.What I really meant is that they are treating me in the same way as someone that Perma banned 22 accounts which he didn't level up himself it's arguable to say that he didn't level up the account he is using at the momment....
Shiwah (EUW)
: Funny, because they were handpicked from the support to be the most likely candidates to succeed the challenge. And yet they failed.
> [{quoted}](name=Shiwah,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=7Y0fh5sG,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2018-07-05T05:11:06.372+0000) > > Funny, because they were handpicked from the support to be the most likely candidates to succeed the challenge. And yet they failed. Doesn't matter if they were handpicked If the sample was not big enough.Did they get 100 of them maybe 200 even If it's 1000 it's not enough of a sample to say that this experiment failed or succeded it's simple really.
Shiwah (EUW)
: Being able to play the game is reward enough. You know, your new account starts from level 2. T1 was also given the same "reward", so, in that aspect, you *are* given the same opportunity as him...
> [{quoted}](name=Shiwah,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=7Y0fh5sG,comment-id=00000000000100010000,timestamp=2018-07-05T05:08:02.514+0000) > > Beibg able to play the game is reward enough. You know, your new account starts from level 2. > T1 was also given the same "reward", so, in that aspect, you *are* given the same opportunity as him... No I didn't get the same reward I got nothing just a banned account I didn't have 22 permabanned accounts and I didn't got indefinite ban.To compare it IRL I stole something and got in jail while T1 killed someone and got in jail.Yet when I did my punishment and he did his punishment he got out with a job and I got nothing.I got no opportunities maybe if I hosted my tournament with 10k dollards reward then maybe I'd get my account back right?
Shiwah (EUW)
: Because of this part: > The point is that no matter how much you swear you changed, everyone does that and the odds that you genuinely mean it are very low, from Riot's point of view. From what I've seen, people claiming to have reformed do so *as a consequence* of their permaban. Unbanning the accounts means giving an unfairly gained prize to those who deserved to lose them in the first place. You don't duct tape an eggshell back together and pretend that the egg was never broken to begin with.
> [{quoted}](name=Shiwah,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=7Y0fh5sG,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2018-07-01T15:44:14.946+0000) > > Because of this part: > > From what I've seen, people claiming to have reformed do so *as a consequence* of their permaban. Unbanning the accounts means giving an unfairly gained prize to those who deserved to lose them in the first place. > You don't duct tape an eggshell back together and pretend that the egg was never broken to begin with. What about the honor system should we pat people for being descent human beings (which is never the case it's who ever carried more even though there are tilt-proof and nice shotcall in there).Since you're rewarding ''non-toxic players'', and quote me on this everyone said something wrong atleast once in their league of legends life or tilted and ''attacked'' someone,why shouldn't we give the reformed players a pat on the head with a CHANCE to get their league account back?I don't get it how the community refuse to acknowledge that someone changed for the better unless they are big streamers or pro-players like T1 and Jensen.Now I know that they didn't get their accounts back but they are allowed to play league of legends again on stream/pro.Your argument is invalid for that reason what T1 did was threw the egg on the ground and stepped on it but still he got another chance on proving everyone that he changed why don't I get this kind of treatment???
Shiwah (EUW)
: > I think that there needs to be some way (like The Level 20 Challenge) to get my account back because people actually can reform. The reason why Riot doesn't offer that chance anymore is because it backfired horribly. 95% of the applicants couldn't even complete the challenge. The point is that no matter how much you swear you changed, *everyone* does that and the odds that you genuinely mean it are very low, from Riot's point of view.
> [{quoted}](name=Shiwah,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=7Y0fh5sG,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-07-01T14:32:59.486+0000) > > The reason why Riot doesn't offer that chance anymore is because it backfired horribly. 95% of the applicants couldn't even complete the challenge. > The point is that no matter how much you swear you changed, *everyone* does that and the odds that you genuinely mean it are very low, from Riot's point of view. I don't think the sample of those players was big enough.Is like getting a cup off the ocean and saying there are no whales there.
Shiwah (EUW)
: Because of this part: > The point is that no matter how much you swear you changed, everyone does that and the odds that you genuinely mean it are very low, from Riot's point of view. From what I've seen, people claiming to have reformed do so *as a consequence* of their permaban. Unbanning the accounts means giving an unfairly gained prize to those who deserved to lose them in the first place. You don't duct tape an eggshell back together and pretend that the egg was never broken to begin with.
But not being toxic is rewarded with honors right?Why not reward the players that have changed their attitude with their accounts back at 0 and locked honor to be precise so they keep getting rewarded with all the goods that honor gets.If we're patting people that are descent human beings on the head why shouldn't we pat people that have changed for the best on the head too? :thinking:
Zyzyx (EUW)
: > The punishments never came for the community First of all that's incorrect because the Tribunal directly punished players and secondly it wouldn't matter, because the rules are made by players. > I don't want to believe that anyone ever suggested that players that flame (by flaming i exclude hate speech that should really be permabanned) should be permanetely banned Whether you like it or not, that's precisely what people want. > it's a game you shouldn't be afraid of what you say Despite the fact that it's a game, you are playing with actual humans, which is why you SHOULD care about what you say, exactly like everywhere else.
There is a difference between being afraid and caring about what you say that's where Riot is wrong..
: > [{quoted}](name=Hardstuck Draven,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=5v82tllr,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-24T01:49:09.963+0000) > > 1) Champion win rate (someone that has a high win rate will not go 1/15/2 Yes, they will. The exact reason why people would be low elo while having a decent winrate is because they are not consistently playing well enough, and can thus easily have a bad game. That point is just utterly untrue. > 2)Chat logs (an inter will somehow indicate that he is going to int keywords could be "I'm done","int" and any kind of keyword really No, inters will not say 'I will int this game now'. The entire problem with trollers is that it can't be detected through chat. Banning people for saying they are trolling won't do any good because 1) people say ' I'm trolling' ironically when they just misplayed fairly regularly and 2) if inters know they'll get punished for exclamating they are inting then they will just not say they are going to int, that's not very hard. > 3)Match history (a lot of inters actually can't handle a big loss streak and decide to actually int,same goes for afks) In a match history you deduct exclusively from stats, which don't make a troller. Someone can have not too bad of a score but purposefully lost the game by doing questionable things, while people who have a bad game but want to win can have worse stats and losing streaks. From a match history alone, unless the player is playing nunu cleanse ghost 50 games in a row with 0% win rate, won't help detecting trollers. > 4)General Attitude (you can see a real toxic player from his chat logs/previous punishments) And toxic players get punished, so not sure why you even mention that one here. Someone who's flaming will get punished for flaming, not for trolling. > those are 4 things that can indicate that someone is inting they are extremely weak indicators and in the vast majority of the cases using them won't work for the better. >plus there a lot of things that can show that someone is "soft inting" would be glad if you shared them
1) I am talking about champion win rate not general win rate.There are some thresholds about your champion win rate if you have 60% win rate at 10 games it's really nothing special but get this 60% up to 40-50 games and you can clearly see that this player is skilled enough with a champion to not go 1/15/2. 2)I am not talking for obvious things such as like "I will int this game".I am talking about "I am done" maybe an argument he had with another player and the classic "Wanna see what int looks like".These can indicate that someone is gonna int especially people that play for a portion of the game get into an argument and start inting from then and on. 3)You are right about the match history part but I mentioned it as to find a reason that the guy inted.If he got 4 reports from the other players that he inted but there is not enough evidence that he actually did you can check WHY he would int and not if he did (it's a bit too much but yeah it's just a thought) 4)Toxic players and int/afk/trolls are getting punished differently If someone ints 10 games and flames in 3 he will get punished about flaming which is probably chat restriction when he should be banned about the 10 games he inted which is probably a 14 days ban. If someone is soft inting he will do exactly as you said questionable things.If I get to review someone about soft inting I will start with checking his score obviously.Soft inting is basically a way to ruin a game without making it obvious so you tend to like run to a lane last hitting not pushing and pretty much dying over and over again,not showing to team fights not hitting turrets afking in bushes not going for objectives,pretty much doing anything but not trying to win it's complicated and can't be described via typing to be honest and as you have noticed I really am not the best English speaker there I am trying though...for example I had a Draven dying over and over again to a renekton on top lane just because he didn't want to play the game at that point he ended up going 1/8 he soft inted I am sure about that,but I also had a 2/11 udyr last night that actually tried to win the game went for objectives showed up to team fights even stole Baron even though his score is considered worst I never considered him as an inter.Afterall score says a lot more than you think assists in particular so is objective damage and damage to champions but no one really cares about those...
Zyzyx (EUW)
: > it's not really a 'Riot solution' Ironically It is precisely a Riot solution. The overwatch system is a copy of Riots old Tribunal system. Riot ended the Tribunal for a reason and that reason is (in summary) that it doesn't scale well with the massive size of League, which is why it was always only able to check a small fraction of all reports and why the process to do so took weeks or even months. It also wasn't very accurate, especially when it was about inting. > Riot never tend to ask their community That couldn't be more wrong, in general as well as specifically concerning this particular topic. I know no other company that communicates so excessively with their players. Not even close. And in terms of Player Behavior your statement is even more wrong. Riots entire punishment system bases ONLY on the opinion of the players and it always has. From the very beginning Riot always put a strong emphasis on the fact that they don't make the rules, but the community does. The community defines the rules and defines what is acceptable and what isn't. In the past they did that in the Tribunal, nowadays they do that via the Instant Feedback System.
The punishments never came for the community,or that's just what I want to believe,I don't want to believe that anyone ever suggested that players that flame (by flaming i exclude hate speech that should really be permabanned) should be permanetely banned I can think of a few solutions that could help someone actually reform not just be afraid of getting punished and therefor not flaming after all it's a game you shouldn't be afraid of what you say.Something I forgot to mention is that it takes 3 games for someone to punished after flaming when I've seen people inting 10 games in a row in Diamond elo and still play to this day I mean after 3 intentional feeding reports shouldn't they be reviewed?Even if it takes a long time for them to be punished I'll be asure that they will be at some point.
Zyzyx (EUW)
: Perfectly? No. Good enough? Probably also no. But it works to some extent and the basic idea of using AI to punish inting is pretty solid and will be great some day soon. I don't want to defend the current Feederbuster, it's not really good and has quite a few obvious flaws that are hard to understand. The problem is rather that there is not really any better realistic alternative.
CS:GO overwatch system is pretty solid especially when you take in consideration: 1)Honors level 2+(Still unpunished or reformed players should be solid enough to punish people that are inting) 2)Rank (rank in general shows an individuals skill at the game and knowledge at the game I believe a plat 5 player can tell if someone is having a bad game or he is inting so plat 5+ would be where i stand for for the overwatch system) It's not a great solution and it's not really a 'Riot solution' If I say so myself just because it requires the communitys help and well unless it's fan art or PBE changes well Riot never tend to ask their community.
Zyzyx (EUW)
: That is a pretty accurate description of how the Feederbuster already works right now.
Well does it really work though? :/
: > [{quoted}](name=Hardstuck Draven,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=5v82tllr,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-24T01:35:47.578+0000) > > Not looking for a complete solution here I am looking for some reduction of the problem...plus when people see that they are actually getting punished for it they will just stop doing it...well some of them When people see that they are getting punished for trolling they'll probably just try to make it less obvious, looking just like someone having a terrible game, which happens on a regular basis. And in those cases, it's hard for any person to detect the intent behind someone's actions, and thus giving enough deserved bans to make the difference, while simultaneously avoiding a swarm of people being wrongly banned because, well, intent isn't something that can easily be detected, is hard.
1) Champion win rate (someone that has a high win rate will not go 1/15/2 2)Chat logs (an inter will somehow indicate that he is going to int keywords could be "I'm done","int" and any kind of keyword really 3)Match history (a lot of inters actually can't handle a big loss streak and decide to actually int,same goes for afks) 4)General Attitude (you can see a real toxic player from his chat logs/previous punishments) those are 4 things that can indicate that someone is inting plus there a lot of things that can show that someone is "soft inting" as you described above making it less obvious I can explain some but it's waaay too late right now I will though have my eye on and try to answer you tomorrow.
Smerk (EUW)
: CS:GO approach won't work, I already explained why, community is too big
Not looking for a complete solution here I am looking for some reduction of the problem...plus when people see that they are actually getting punished for it they will just stop doing it...well some of them
: To the Toxic Chat Trolls. Here are some facts to consider.
I absolutely agree with this post.So I need someone to explain me how do I approach such a complex matter without sounding like a bad guy....I'll give it a try...I've never ever flamed someone that say a really rare word these days..."sorry"...I recently had a game where the jungler came to my game and solo dove my laner and well we all know how that turned out...as I was getting frustrated and sceptical I saw in the chat "I am so sorry GP" and oh well we contineued play we even lost but never once have I said anything to that guy...In conclusion if you don't respond to something stupid you did in game you're mostly gonna get flamed,If you respond negatively you're going to get flamed,If you say sorry you're most likely not gonna get flamed.So be descent human beings in your games and it'll be alright.If you knock my coffee off my hand and ruin my clothing outside I expect a sorry or less well...stuff will happen...This is the equilevant of making a mistake in the game I think...or rather a good example of it...OH AND DON'T JUST SAY "mb" it makes it worst :-P
Smerk (EUW)
: You see, the main problem of league is its community. And no I'm not talking about behaviour, I'm talking about size. Millions of games are played every day, which makes it impossible to manually review even fraction of them. So riot have to rely on machines and automated systems. And there comes second problem, it's incredibly hard to program such system, to make it punish guilty, while not touching innocents. It's much easier when it comes to flaming, there is clear evidence that you can see and analyze, flaming is quite obvious, so system doesn't need many special instructions and that is why bans for flaming are so much more common compared to other ban reasons. But when it comes to trolling or intentional feeding it stops being easy, they are few obvious cases like disco nunu and running it down mid, but that's it, after that it's a huge grey area. Was that genuine bad play or did he lost it on purpose? How can you teach a program to distinguish such things when you can't distinguish them yourself? And now about punishments. Chat related toxicity is punished less seriously, there are 4 punishment steps, with 2 chat restrictions first, then 14 days ban and only then permaban. Of course if it's not extreme toxicity, then you'll get straight 14 days ban, followed by perma. Bans for ruining games on purpose follows that extreme toxicity route, you'll get 14 days ban first time you are caught and permaban on second.
I am more than familliar with the flaming punishing system.As I mentioned this account is permabanned (which I totally disagree with permabans cause of flaming but that's another story).Anyway there are solutions to this problem a simple example is the problem that CS:GO had with hackers they implemented the overwatch system that legit asked help from the player base.An idea is if your account is level 2+ and your rank is higher than gold you are able to get this overwatch system from time to time and help Riot to reduce the troll/int problem.About the afk problem you don't get them enough people don't randomly afk unless there is a reason very few games someone said that will afk actually did,you see they prefer ruining the game via inting because people have a chance to win a 4v5. In conclusion it saddens me to think about my permabanned account that I've spent a lot of money and time on it that I'd still have it today If I didn't flame in chat and actually afkd or inted a game that annoyed me....It's like enabling it...You said it that it's really nearly imposible to find an inter via a system because there are bad days and bad games,hell we all have 'cold hands' from time to time but there are some key factors that can indicate inting such as: 1) Champion win rate (someone that has a high win rate will not go 1/15/2 2)Chat logs (an inter will somehow indicate that he is going to int keywords could be "I'm done","int" and any kind of keyword really 3)Match history (a lot of inters actually can't handle a big loss streak and decide to actually int,same goes for afks) 4)General Attitude (you can see a real toxic player from his chat logs/previous punishments) That's just a personal opinion for that matter you seem well informed and a thoughtful individual and I'd like to ask you If permabans for flaming should actually exist.I tend to lean on the side of seasonal bans rather than just permabans for last resort.
Rioter Comments
yKhLPerry (EUW)
: A serious change to League of Legends.
from League of Legends to Leage o Legeds cause F U N is lost~Skooch
: ***
My honest opinion is people that aren't competitive in this game shouldn't be able to post here :)
135792468 (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Shiwah,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=OTj41aKA,comment-id=00130000,timestamp=2018-06-20T17:48:12.294+0000) > > Again the "not smart" argument, but do you have a counter-argument for the fact that *removing chat means removing a symptom, not the illness*? > > Do you cure cancer with palliatives? > > Thought so. your Quote isnt anywhere near related to this. especially not with what you just wrote.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hardstuck Draven,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=OTj41aKA,comment-id=000f00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-20T18:23:08.787+0000) > > at the momment i am sitting at dia 4 having multiple accounts to mid/high plat I use this account to comment since it used to be my main and is permabanned unfortunately... What a coincidence. My main account is currently Master, and two others are high Diamond. No account ever has been banned.
: You literally got triggered cause I didn't want to speak with someone that is unranked aka an SJW. I am not giving a suggestion to solve a problem all I am saying is that permabanning people didn't help at all. You brought a very sensitive example of a wall to make your point valid which is you basically trying to manipulate any reader of this ''discussion'' to compare me to Trump.I know you and I know what you're trying to do so please just stop you're not fooling anyone :)
Riot themselves said we don't ban people we ban accounts for the sole reason to keep playing the game which did nothing good for the game.If they wanted to kick people out they would ID ban them really.I made multiple comments on this thread even some corrections on the OPs suggestion.Regarding buzzwords you're the one who used trump wall as an example which is every other world in buzzfeed and generally in media. Good Bye.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hardstuck Draven,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=OTj41aKA,comment-id=000f000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-20T17:11:00.835+0000) > > Being unranked is enough reason to not have a discussion with you.You're not playing the game competitivly that's no problem but you won't see the rising toxicity... Those two things don't have anything to do with each other. Not to mention that I've been Platinum before... what was your highest ranking exactly?
at the momment i am sitting at dia 4 having multiple accounts to mid/high plat I use this account to comment since it used to be my main and is permabanned unfortunately...
Shiwah (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Hardstuck Draven,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=OTj41aKA,comment-id=000f0000000000000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-20T18:06:23.222+0000) > > it's not about human phuchology It's *all* about human psychology. It's literally the reason toxicity exists: because some humans can't deal with their own frustration maturely. > I am asking how we can decrease the toxicity which is not happening. This has nothing to do with what you're saying nothing to do with politics mathematics or human phychology you just want to look like a smartass and I will not further try to explain myself to you. Funny how you say that, but you fail to see the fundamental issue with games: the players themselves. There literally is no game out there where people aren't toxic because of whatever reason, or don't complay because the game balance doesn't fit their vision. It has nothing to do with ranks - it has everything to do with psychology. Literally THE topic of discussion in Riot's PB team, to the point that they have scientists and professionals in the sector specifically to study the psychology of player behaviour. But hey, we're the dumb ones, while you suggest to solve a very complex problem with a very simplistic, and ineffective, solution. Like building a wall to prevent Mexicans from getting into US soil. > You're the typical Social Justice Warrior guy we all know and hate... Unfortunately for you, SJW doesn't mean what you think it means. *Especially* not in the context of this discussion.
You literally got triggered cause I didn't want to speak with someone that is unranked aka an SJW. I am not giving a suggestion to solve a problem all I am saying is that permabanning people didn't help at all. You brought a very sensitive example of a wall to make your point valid which is you basically trying to manipulate any reader of this ''discussion'' to compare me to Trump.I know you and I know what you're trying to do so please just stop you're not fooling anyone :)
Shiwah (EUW)
: You don't have the luxury to select the validity of the arguments based on the rank of the person you're discussing with. It's an elitist attitude that adds nothing to any discussion, nor any argument, and if anything it makes you look like a jerk who only takes authoritative arguments as a gospel. Well, how's that? [Do you accept all balance changes in the game because they're decided by Diamonds?](https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-en/fXLEPlET-just-stop) By your logic, you should. Toxicity is in every game mode (even aram). Your assumption that it only affects ranked is proven wrong by several statements from Riot.
I have the right to choose who I am going to discuss with about a competitive game and if this makes me look like a jerk then so be it.I never said that toxicity doesn't exist outside ranked games but you can't comprehend that toxicity is rising when nothing is on the line it's as simple as that.
Shiwah (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Hardstuck Draven,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=OTj41aKA,comment-id=000f0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-20T16:48:56.700+0000) > > All I see from the thing you're saying is that you don't play the game really. There are ranked people - even Diamonds - in this thread that are stating exactly the same things Divine is saying. So, what's your point?
That I will discuss with them and not with you is my point.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hardstuck Draven,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=OTj41aKA,comment-id=000f0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-20T16:48:56.700+0000) > > All I see from the thing you're saying is that you don't play the game really.Your op.gg says the same aswell to be honest I am sorry but I am looking to discuss with people that actually play the game... No, you look for an easier discussion partner. In fact I just played League about 5 days ago and have thousands of games in my record, so I don't see your point. Not to mention that even if I didn't play the game, the points I made still are valid, so please go ahead and discuss with me, I believe it's your turn to address the points I made, just as I addressed yours before.
Being unranked is enough reason to not have a discussion with you.You're not playing the game competitivly that's no problem but you won't see the rising toxicity...
: >I mean a quick view across LoL reddit and LoL boards will show you what I am talking about or maybe play the game?I That's rather one sided. It's shown, that happy people/customers are less likely to leave a critique, than negative customers. Also don't forget the effect of negaivity bias. What I'm saying is, I don't want your subjective and limited view on the matter to prove your claim, but brutally honest statistics. >I don't know, a friend of mine that never actually in his live been toxic got chat restricted last patch because of the Banner of Command BS. The way you worded that doesn't seem very logical, care to give the precise case and source? >Why do I need source for that when I pretty much see it everyday when you can see people complaining about trollers inters and afkers. Because that's how making a valid point and claim works. You need factual proof to validate your statement, otherwise nobody will take your statement serious. >At the end of the day even if it's not increasing it most certainly not getting fixed maybe Riot needs to change their policy after all regarding toxicity. I'm making a stretch and claim there is no fix, since what is considered as toxicity roots in us humans and Riot definitely isn't capable of altering personalities, so toxicity will never stop. Also Riot changed their approach to the issue multiple times already, always making improvements along the way. For example they already tried handing out Permanent Chat Bans to see if it helps. Guess what, it didn't help at all. Instead of being verbally toxic those players resorted to other means to spread negavity.
All I see from the thing you're saying is that you don't play the game really.Your op.gg says the same aswell to be honest I am sorry but I am looking to discuss with people that actually play the game...
: >[...] the toxicity is not stopping or decreasing it's rising after all [...] It is? Got any source for that claim?
I mean a quick view across LoL reddit and LoL boards will show you what I am talking about or maybe play the game?I don't know, a friend of mine that never actually in his live been toxic got chat restricted last patch because of the Banner of Command BS.Why do I need source for that when I pretty much see it everyday when you can see people complaining about trollers inters and afkers.At the end of the day even if it's not increasing it most certainly not getting fixed maybe Riot needs to change their policy after all regarding toxicity.
: Hardly... a large part of that win came from the Draven getting fed, he dealt a massive portion of the damage and was the main reason that misfits won that game... the level 1 invade didn’t actually help that much as Fnatic still got the red buff thus it wasn’t that successful. The win came from drafting a completely dominant bot lane and getting the Draven fed which then resulted in too much burst for the kaisa to handle.
What I pretty much want to say is if you give all the credit to Hans Sama about that game....you're wrong.
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Hardstuck Draven

Level 108 (EUW)
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