: I don't see she deserves a nerf
you don't seem to realise how this works janna always needs a nerf she could be deleted from the game and would still need a nerf
: Yes pls Was actually missing those daily reminders of Janna xD
you're not meant to actually want me back >:(
Rioter Comments
Febos (EUW)
: I disagree. The login theme music vibrates with power and greatness. That's Galio right there. I also liked the theme from the teaser, but this one fits him too. Still, nothing can beat [Kindred's theme song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVtvPXVysiE). Such a well made piece.
Personally I feel as if his theme is too aggressive. I feel like it's something you'd expect more from a brutish champion like Sion or WW, as it's very aggressive with lots of harsh sounds. New Galio feels like he'd need something more heroic. And hell no, Jhin's theme > GP's theme > all the others
Rioter Comments
: Wanna be a Red panda's BFF? Check this out!
>Interests: \- Gaming \- Reading \- Music \- Food \- Food \- Food \- Food Why put food 4 times?
: Janna onetrick LF duo d4+ (D3 60lp peak rank)
>Hi everyone, Janna one trick looking to get boosted by someone. Seems about right.
Mada (EUW)
: GOD! Finally someone arranged the math in a way that I can easily visualize. Thanks a lot!
Rioter Comments
Eveninn (EUW)
: Well, there are 3 ways I eat toast. 1) simply the bread with topping, no efford in toasting (basically like you use regular bread+something on top) 2) Using the bread-ham-cheese-bread sandwhich like formular and the toasting it in that shape, this is a common way of having it where I'm from, not sure if it is used in bigger parts of Europe. 3) Using a singular slice of bread and toast it to have a nice crispy taint on both sides, in this case I hate using topping with it as most of the topping just takes away from crispiness while adding nothing for me.
have fun with your bland toast
: Well, for upside-down, you could start with a simple brown bar and apply topping on the upper side or lower side respectively :)
You don't rotate it a full 180 degrees, with some of the runnier toppings like honey that'll end up causing it to drip. What you do is you temporarily flip it when you're taking a bite, and sorta eat it from the top down, holding the toast perpendicular to the floor. and my art needs no improvements, it is perfection ty.
: Referring to the picture: What difference does it make in eating the toast with the topping facing left instead of right? {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
paint doesn't do 3d very well, particularly not for someone with my levels of "talent"
Eveninn (EUW)
: Why ruin a crispy toast with topping though? :C
what kind of animal that you eat your toast plain
Rioter Comments
Eveninn (EUW)
: Good ol' xBillion. And dis no hellhole, it's a place with lovely people. :3
I think your sunny disposition and overly positive worldview is clouding your judgement of this place.
Eveninn (EUW)
: Dunno... I love rice with peas. It doesn't work on it's own, but I very much prefer it more then just rice along somthing. Pineapples are something I wouldn't like on pizza, but corn I always loved. The problem with peas is that you can't cook them for a longer time like other things, but they have to be added pretty late. There would be no replacement for you... I'd be sad forever just like I miss a certain green cutie since a long time now. :(
Well yeah, but that's rice. Egg works well with rice, but eggy pizza sounds an abomination. Idk who you mean since I went off to do irl stuff for ages. I don't know who even lingers in this hellhole anymore.
Eveninn (EUW)
: I like corn, it's pretty much the only thing I ever eat on Pizza. (never had sweetcorn though) For the raw state I much prefer peas though, which are kinda similar. I should try peas on pizza! :o Nah, I don't think I'd let you just disapear... we need someone who does the off-topic thing, no? ^^
Peppers, onions and extra cheese. Literally all you need. Peas on pizza sounds pineapple tier, please don't >_> And they're coming for me, if I'm really needed that badly you'll need to find someone who can meet my high standards and post such good quality content. It'll be tough, but you all will need to find a way to live on without me.
Wen294 (EUW)
: If it ain't sweet it ain't sweetcorn. If it ain't corn it ain't sweetcorn. That's how easy it is.
your standards are oppressive and harmful to young corn everywhere stop being so mean ty
Eveninn (EUW)
: But I like sweet stuff. :c
you don't need corn you're sweet enough as is GPet <3 plus corn is a conspiracy, that's what I've been trying to tell everyone but no one seems to want to wake up and face the truth. The government is using corn to steal your DNA, that's all I can tell you right now. They'll be coming for me soon, but I needed to get the word out. remember me </3
Wen294 (EUW)
: The point of sweetcorn is that it's sweet and corn.
But does that mean that Sweetcorn is not corn if it is not sweet? How sweet does it need to be before it is considered sweetcorn? Are these backward attitudes and impossible standards not harmful to the everyday simple corn kernel? #&#35;EndSweetCornShaming2017
24thDiK (EUW)
: And yea, i would give it 10 out of 10 points ^^
as usual, since I post only the highest quality content. thank you I'm glad you enjoyed this post
: Grrreat... Again I have The Great Mighty Poo song stuck in the head. Ughhh...
yw <3 rip Conker online
Rioter Comments
: > Did you not get notified by the username mention? Rip. Wait that's a thing which happens??? Lol I didn't even realise you could get notifications when someone mentions your name. Maybe it was cause you spelt it with a capital and my username is in all lower case. Oh well, it's nice to see you kept by your word and all :D I doubt most people would have let the offer stay open for over a year. > As a support for example, there is very little you can do to beat a Sion + Jhin lane. If Sion tags you with E, you pretty much die and that's not an exaggeration, since Jhin is pretty much guaranteed a root, with W, which chains in to a channelled Q from Sion, which chains in to Curtain Call and Unstoppable Onslaught. Very little survives that. Lots of champions do the same tbh... morg, ali, leona, braum, and nami all can do very similar... some of them even more effectively than sion (his ult is hard to land the knock up component on champions with mobility and his follow up Q does rely on the response of the enemy support)... I'd honestly say it's more in the adc than the support, a sion is a lot less threatening when pared with a koggie than a jhin or cait because they simply synergies with allied cc extremely well and can be very dominant in the laning phase when they make use of this synergy. Plus support sion has very questionable scaling power... it's why I disagree with it, he relies too much on stacks to become an effective tank without farm... So he is just a squishy leona with more damage. > And what initiated the snowball? Getting hit by Sion E, a fast projectile and a very spammable skill. It's like Blitz/Thresh hook, only it's a lot harder to punish Sion if he misses his E. It's not a case of people not respecting or knowing how to play against Sion, it's a case of Sion is one of the best laners in the game and that's incredibly powerful. Against an immobile champion yeah... but I've played enough sion vs riven to know as soon as you factor mobility into this it does have a habit of falling apart. He is indeed a strong lane bully early but he does loose this at around 6 vs other lane bullies and against people who truly know what they are doing and position so you can't easily combo your E into your Q his impact is lessened (and again this comes back to respect... people don't respect his combo enough to position with it in mind... that's what causes him to snowball, people stand too close to bushes and he gets his combo off... or they try to fight him while standing in his Q). > The difference between someone like Galio/WW and Janna is that while the former show their age and aren't particularly interactive or exciting, Janna suffers from those qualities and negatively impacts games she's in. > She's a champion who stagnates cames and makes them boring to play and watch, with a lot of hidden power and unreasonable strengths. I wasn't actually talking about warwick or galio, they don't suffer from the same issues as she does (well warwick was one dimensional like janna but that's kinda just who janna is, she focuses on disengage completely). Urgot, eve, rammus, pantheon, and shaco (although it's lessened since his mini rework) all suffer the exact same or in similar ways. They lack direct counter play besides being extremely passive and they promote unhealthy gameplay. Only difference is that janna does it in a healthier way. Urgot does it through a mini exhaust which is way worse invisible power than janna shield, eve forces enemies to play passIvely from just existing instead of at least interacting with people like janna, rammus is just rammus... he counters adcs way more than janna counters melees and in a less healthy way, panth just creates binary anti fun environments, and shaco has an extremely unfun scenarios. These are a selection of the tier 1 list for reworks... given the time and motivation I could easily do the same with all of them but I think you get the point... while there are still champions like that in the game it's unfair to divert resources to janna. And it's a similar story for the mini reworks... janna functions and she is tolerable, she isn't causing wide spread mayhem and she has got ways to counter her although they are exactly riveting. There are champions who are having identity crisises or are just not working as they should be such as rek'sai, aurelion sol, and skarner... they would have to take priority over someone who isn't healthy but isn't an immediate issue. She is tier 2 at best... she is just not at a level where resources can be diverted away from champions who dearly need it.
> Wait that&#x27;s a thing which happens??? Lol I didn&#x27;t even realise you could get notifications when someone mentions your name. > Maybe it was cause you spelt it with a capital and my username is in all lower case. I don't know if it's a thing, but it tends to be a common forum feature. Maybe it is and I just misused it, maybe it's not or maybe you just missed the notification. Who knows, who cares. > Lots of champions do the same tbh... morg, ali, leona, braum, and nami all can do very similar... some of them even more effectively than sion (his ult is hard to land the knock up component on champions with mobility and his follow up Q does rely on the response of the enemy support)... I&#x27;d honestly say it&#x27;s more in the adc than the support, a sion is a lot less threatening when pared with a koggie than a jhin or cait because they simply synergies with allied cc extremely well and can be very dominant in the laning phase when they make use of this synergy. It's not about being able to CC chain a target, it's about how easy he can do so, and how little he risks in doing so. Ali and Leona both need to use their full combo and need to go in hard in order to have presence. Sion doesn't. His Q and E have respectable range, which makes him hard to punish or abuse. Not only does he not need to engage in order to have lane presence, something that can leave you prone to abuse, and a big part of why you don't tend to see Leona, but he also is hard to punish if he starts a bad fight. He can just walk away if he doesn't land a good combo, but someone like Leona or Ali is stuck in a poor position. Morg bind and Nami bubble are really tricky to land reliably. And we're not even talking about landing it on mobile champions, the projectiles are so slow that unless someone is CC'd, they can easily sidestep the skillshot and then the Morg/Nami is in a bad spot. Morg is in a bad spot because Q is what she maxes, so if she misses bind she has no real lane presence for the next 10 seconds, which means that unless the enemy bot lane is extremely CC reliant to trade, she has to concede lane pressure. Nami ends up in a bad spot because it's all she can really use to peel someone off her or her adc, and she's squishy and immobile. A Nami without bubble has to play very carefully for the next 13 seconds. Braum is a laning potato. You don't pick Braum to go aggro because he really struggles with that, and unless it's a really favourable matchup or he gets camped for you won't really see a Braum get kills against competent players. Sion doesn't have any of these problems, which is why he's so good. He doesn't need to commit to anything in order to have lane presence, he is hard to trade with unless he's used his entire combo and even then his cooldowns are stupidly low, and then his kill pressure if he does get an opening is absurd. No other support has all of these qualities, which is why Sion is so good. > Plus support sion has very questionable scaling power... it&#x27;s why I disagree with it, he relies too much on stacks to become an effective tank without farm... So he is just a squishy leona with more damage. He's an early and mid game dominant champion, of course he doesn't have the best scaling. > Against an immobile champion yeah... but I&#x27;ve played enough sion vs riven to know as soon as you factor mobility into this it does have a habit of falling apart. He is indeed a strong lane bully early but he does loose this at around 6 vs other lane bullies and against people who truly know what they are doing and position so you can&#x27;t easily combo your E into your Q his impact is lessened (and again this comes back to respect... people don&#x27;t respect his combo enough to position with it in mind... that&#x27;s what causes him to snowball, people stand too close to bushes and he gets his combo off... or they try to fight him while standing in his Q). Your goal against most champions is to poke the crap out of them with E. You shouldn't need to be reliant on hitting Q because E is most of your damage and allows you to chunk and bully opponents out of lane. > Urgot, eve, rammus, pantheon, and shaco (although it&#x27;s lessened since his mini rework) all suffer the exact same or in similar ways. > They lack direct counter play besides being extremely passive and they promote unhealthy gameplay. The problem with those is that they'll need large scale reworks. I honestly don't feel as if she needs much in order to make her healthy and balancable, but someone like Urgot or Pantheon is much more challenging. It's one of the reasons why Aatrox has yet to receive a rework despite so desperately needing one for a while. He's just too much of a challenge to fix over the course of a few patches. > Only difference is that janna does it in a healthier way. Urgot does it through a mini exhaust which is way worse invisible power than janna shield, eve forces enemies to play passIvely from just existing instead of at least interacting with people like janna, rammus is just rammus... he counters adcs way more than janna counters melees and in a less healthy way, panth just creates binary anti fun environments, and shaco has an extremely unfun scenarios. * Urgot needs a massive overhaul. * Eve can be countered by good map awareness and through deep wards. While she does lack engagement if your jungler and support aren't keeping tabs on her position, I believe she's one of the lesser offenders of bad design or urgently in need of a rework. That said she tends to have issues with struggling to be viable and can be particularly feast/famine, so an eventual rework is definitely necessary. * Rammus can be itemised against with penetration, MR and lifesteal. Janna is far tougher to itemise against in comparison, as there is nothing that really deals with shields, and she isn't countered by QSS. He needs a rework because he is too binary, but he's not inherently unhealthy to the game. * Pantheon needs a rework. * Shaco isn't as terrifying as people make out. Similar to Eve he's countered by good pathing and map awareness. What he needs is bugfixes, stuff like duskblade double proccing thanks to his clone is unacceptable. > > And it&#x27;s a similar story for the mini reworks... janna functions and she is tolerable, she isn&#x27;t causing wide spread mayhem and she has got ways to counter her although they are exactly riveting. There are champions who are having identity crisises or are just not working as they should be such as rek&#x27;sai, aurelion sol, and skarner... they would have to take priority over someone who isn&#x27;t healthy but isn&#x27;t an immediate issue. Rek and Sol are perfectly fine. I don't think anyone wants Riot to even think about touching Skarner again. This iteration is awful, yet Riot have said if they're going to look at him again they're not removing Spires, so honestly what's the point of encouraging them to ruin him even further.
: > And I'll say it again. Her shield needs to go on cooldown when it expires. > Her MS buff at the very least should not be active in combat. > Her shield shouldn't give flat AD as that is extremely volatile, something like on hit damage would be more appropriate. > Her ult should be retuned such that it isn't just a "Press to entirely reset a fight but cancel it immediately because there is rarely an incentive to channel the heal." > These are all very reasonable changes that would serve to shift Janna to be a more healthy and engaging champion, and if it does transpire that she ends up too weak after these changes, she can receive compensation buffs. This way, yes there may be a period of time where she struggles slightly, but that's ok because she'll be much healthier in the long run. > Hell, the first two were changes that high elo Janna mains were almost in unanimous agreement over when she was last a candidate for nerfing. But what do they know, right? You realise saying these instead of out right saying she needs to be deleted would have made your claim a lot better. I think that's something which I've noticed about some of your threads, they aren't well received because in a lot of them you exaggerate a lot and that causes people to be negative... putting realistic nerfs instead of asking for reworks/deletion/crippling nerfs is a lot better way of going about this. > Reliance on counterpicks is not healthy. > An uninteractive playstyle is not healthy. > Hidden power and numerical stat buffs out the wazzoo is bad design, and everyone should know that since Riot have stated it numerous times. And I could name quite a few offenders who are like this as well... not just janna. And a lot of them are worse than janna and need to be dealt with sooner... she is old and showing her age but she is by no means in a position to take resources away from other offenders. With both balance changes and reworks there are people who need it more... she has issues I won't deny that, but they aren't wide spread enough to warrant drastic measures. > Sion is really strong, it's not my fault that people aren't really playing him as much as they should be. He's an absurdly powerful pick, particularly as a support, yet isn't valued so much in the west. In places like Korea he's shitstomping, yet over here you only ever see him as a pocket pick at most. > He's very powerful, and he should be a contested pick. He's not, and that's strange. Whenever I've argued about sion not being too strong I use the same point... and it works in reverse as well. Sion relies a lot on unfamiliarity... a lot of his strength is coming from extremely powerful and damaging abilities which require the enemy to not respect in order to get the full benefit out of... This works in reverse, if the enemies aren't aware of how strong sion can conditionally be then he isn't gonna be picked... because the thing which is making him feel strong is the exact same thing which is making him seem weak... lack of respect. And I stand by the idea that sion becoming popular would be worse than any nerf... cause as soon as people respect his strength they are gonna react how they should be which will lower his strength... unpopularity is his greatest strength, it's what you are finding so strong about him. > I was wrong on the reworked Skarner, as I didn't realise how strong the slow was, or how a maxed E leads to CC combos that aren't possible otherwise. It was never about damage, if it was, then Q would be better. But like I said, I was wrong on that one, I even made a thread saying so, but you never responded. The offer is still open on that one, name a charity and I'll donate tonight if you like. Huh... I never noticed that thread... don't know why it slipped the net. oh well. Honestly I was gonna let it slide, no point chasing you up over it... but if the offer is still open then just donate to RSPCA or which ever charity you feel like... it is your money after all :) (surprised you remembered it tbh).
> You realise saying these instead of out right saying she needs to be deleted would have made your claim a lot better. > I think that&#x27;s something which I&#x27;ve noticed about some of your threads, they aren&#x27;t well received because in a lot of them you exaggerate a lot and that causes people to be negative... putting realistic nerfs instead of asking for reworks/deletion/crippling nerfs is a lot better way of going about this. I've argued these changes in the past, and the response has been the same. No matter how well I argue the case the response is always one of the inb4's I listed in the original post. Hell, I've *even linked to the Janna mains in question saying X change should be made*, and that made no difference. Because apparently challenger/masters Janna mains don't know their champion well enough to be able to identify how they should be nerfed if necessary. > And I could name quite a few offenders who are like this as well... not just janna. And a lot of them are worse than janna and need to be dealt with sooner... she is old and showing her age but she is by no means in a position to take resources away from other offenders. > With both balance changes and reworks there are people who need it more... she has issues I won&#x27;t deny that, but they aren&#x27;t wide spread enough to warrant drastic measures. The difference between someone like Galio/WW and Janna is that while the former show their age and aren't particularly interactive or exciting, Janna suffers from those qualities *and* negatively impacts games she's in. She's a champion who stagnates cames and makes them boring to play and watch, with a lot of hidden power and unreasonable strengths. I don't think she needs a massive full scale rework or visual upgrade, but she definitely needs a smaller scale rework similar to update her kit to the point where she can honestly be considered a champion that is healthy to the game. > Sion relies a lot on unfamiliarity... a lot of his strength is coming from extremely powerful and damaging abilities which require the enemy to not respect in order to get the full benefit out of... > This works in reverse, if the enemies aren&#x27;t aware of how strong sion can conditionally be then he isn&#x27;t gonna be picked... because the thing which is making him feel strong is the exact same thing which is making him seem weak... lack of respect. Sion's strengths come from being overtuned, and comboing really well with certain champions. Yes you can win games by bush cheeses and stealing buffs at level one, but that doesn't change the fact that he is a laner that is ridiculously oppressive. As a support for example, there is very little you can do to beat a Sion + Jhin lane. If Sion tags you with E, you pretty much die and that's not an exaggeration, since Jhin is pretty much guaranteed a root, with W, which chains in to a channelled Q from Sion, which chains in to Curtain Call and Unstoppable Onslaught. Very little survives that. And what initiated the snowball? Getting hit by Sion E, a fast projectile and a very spammable skill. It's like Blitz/Thresh hook, only it's a lot harder to punish Sion if he misses his E. It's not a case of people not respecting or knowing how to play against Sion, it's a case of Sion is one of the best laners in the game and that's incredibly powerful. > Huh... I never noticed that thread... don&#x27;t know why it slipped the net. oh well. > Honestly I was gonna let it slide, no point chasing you up over it... but if the offer is still open then just donate to RSPCA or which ever charity you feel like... it is your money after all :) (surprised you remembered it tbh). Did you not get notified by the username mention? Rip. Either way, [here you go.](http://i.imgur.com/xcN9NAy.png)
: > Everyone seems to forget how I had an annoying tendency of being right. > I said Hecarim was going to be a strong solo queue pick, before his rise in popularity and extreme dominance. I was laughed at and told "He'll be worse than the top tier junglers so why would I pick him?". He came in to the meta, and I told everyone they were building him wrong and that red smite was better. Again, laughed at and ridiculed, until pro tier junglers shifted toward red smite due to how much better it was. > I said Karma was insane and should be given attention. Once again, no one listened, then about a month later she became really popular and dominant. > Twitch. Granted this is a bad example because I was praising him before the stealth rework, was ignored but then people started playing him once the rework was announced to get a feel of old twitch. Then people realised yeah he was rather strong. His real dominance came with the stealth rework, and I can't take credit for that, but he was still really strong before hand. > "Run 10% scaling CDR on caster ADCs" I said. No you're an idiot, I need that 8 MR in all lanes. Kinda strange how a lot of top tier ADCs will run 10% on champs like Lucian and Jhin because it means they don't need to get Lucidity boots with the ghostblade+cleaver build or the reaver build. I did say that unless you absolutely 100% need the MR because you're against something like Zyra, CDR makes far more sense. But nah, I knew nothing because I'm just a support main, I didn't understand how important the 8 MR was on ADCs. Funny how top ADCs are doing that now though. > Don't go full AP/Tank Ivern, he's a support Jungler. Don't max Q, max E and rush an athene's then build utility. Sure, the buffs to Ivern helped but what was his build and skilling order when he was the best jungler in the game before he got nerfed due to how strong that was? I don't quite remember. > And lastly, even though there were a tonne of other examples, we have Zac, or more specifically running a crap load of CDR in runes. Hmm what are the top tier Zac mains running? Granted last time I checked they typically run 30% scaling, and I only ever considered 20%, but yeah. I was totally an idiot for not running AP quints and MR blues like everyone else, it's not as if he scales ridiculously hard with CDR and it's a tricky to itemise stat for an AP manaless tank. You've also said that skarner would max Q first after the rework instead of E (I seem to remember you even going as far as to say that if you where wrong you would donate to charity if you where wrong in that statement... I remember that one cause I found that whole situation rather entertaining)... a couple of months later you posted another thread saying to max E first... So you where wrong then. You've also claimed that sion would be pick or ban not long after his mecha zero skin came out... he still hasn't risen to any form of popularity an entire year later. So another time that you where wrong. You've been preaching about janna for well over a year now and she hasn't caught on at all... even through some pretty advantageous metas she hasn't become meta once which shows your prob wrong about that one as well. So you saying your right here because you have a track record of being right but you've been wrong before... and that completely invalidates your point. Plus no offence but you sound like Donald trump when you try to use argument points like that.... never go full trump, bad idea (plus saying I've been right so I must be right is a terrible argument point, if you said that in a debates team you would be laughed at... So I'm not criticizing but it's usually best to avoid that one).
I was wrong on the reworked Skarner, as I didn't realise how strong the slow was, or how a maxed E leads to CC combos that aren't possible otherwise. It was never about damage, if it was, then Q would be better. But like I said, I was wrong on that one, [I even made a thread saying so](http://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-en/cLZkvdrl-swampert919-you-were-right-im-waiting), but you never responded. The offer is still open on that one, name a charity and I'll donate tonight if you like. Sion is really strong, it's not my fault that people aren't really playing him as much as they should be. He's an absurdly powerful pick, particularly as a support, yet isn't valued so much in the west. In places like Korea he's shitstomping, yet over here you only ever see him as a pocket pick at most. He's very powerful, and he *should* be a contested pick. He's not, and that's strange. Janna has caught on numerous times and been the face of the support meta for extended periods of time. I'm not quite sure what you're on about saying that she's never been meta, when there were times she had a play rate of >40%. Is that not meta enough? Of course there have been times where I've been wrong. There are a lot of factors to consider, and there are things that are really tricky to explain. Some things deserve a rightful place in the meta but don't get picked, some meta champions are in awful spots and should be left alone yet people still play them. When Lucian was sitting at a 45% win rate pre buffs, he was still top 5 in terms of ADC popularity despite his numerous problems that led to his awful performance. Same with Ezreal. Ezreal is objectively bad and has been for a while, yet he's still picked, if for no other reason than people like him. But as a whole, when I make serious statements they tend to be correct. That's why I take the time to make those statements, since I believe they need to be said. Do you think I enjoy spending a half hour to an hour typing out a post, arguing the case, and then to get told I'm a moron? And like I said. I'm not saying "Treat me seriously because I'm always right", I'm saying "Please actually seriously consider the arguments instead of doing what always happens where people don't take me seriously or actually evaluate the arguments, wait a couple months, then realise I was right because my arguments were actually good." You can see in [this post](http://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-en/wEQUbzO1-on-the-latest-installment-of-im-a-twat-but-i-actually-kinda-know-what-im-talking-about), that this is generally the case. 3/5 picks I recommended were greatly under rated and became pretty much pick/ban within a few patches. Was I perfectly correct? No. I said things such as to go Warrior on Hecarim because I didn't consider the path of Skirmisher's in to Trinity and just skipping the enchant. Sion isn't currently meta, and nor is Galio, but that doesn't mean they're not really powerful picks who are good to add to your roster since they're easy to play and super strong, particularly in Solo Queue. So when I say "Janna is in need of rebalancing, her kit has problems with engagement and game health. She has a lot of traits that are objectively bad, and I suggest X change, something that even high elo Janna mains were saying when she was last a candidate for nerfs since she was busted beyond belief.", just maybe I have a point. Reliance on counterpicks is not healthy. An uninteractive playstyle is not healthy. Hidden power and numerical stat buffs out the wazzoo is bad design, and everyone should know that since Riot have stated it numerous times. And I'll say it again. Her shield needs to go on cooldown when it expires. Her MS buff at the very least should not be active in combat. Her shield shouldn't give flat AD as that is extremely volatile, something like on hit damage would be more appropriate. Her ult should be retuned such that it isn't just a "Press to entirely reset a fight but cancel it immediately because there is rarely an incentive to channel the heal." These are all very reasonable changes that would serve to shift Janna to be a more healthy and engaging champion, and if it does transpire that she ends up too weak after these changes, she can receive compensation buffs. This way, yes there may be a period of time where she struggles slightly, but that's ok because she'll be much healthier in the long run. Hell, the first two were changes that high elo Janna mains were almost in unanimous agreement over when she was last a candidate for nerfing. But what do they know, right?
: you think Janna is the problem? Lol what..shes strong ill give you that but you do realise shes super easy to kill right ?, her base health values and armor etc is absurdly low, any mage support in bot will turn her into a E spamming ward bot.
>Easy to kill She is? Then why does she average not just the lowest deaths in the support class, but of every champion in every role in the game, and by a decent ish margin. [Easy to kill though, right?](http://i.imgur.com/Fkn7U12.png) Janna is so braindead easy and safe that you pretty much have to try in order to die on her.
: > Solo Queue != Pro play > > She has exploitable weaknesses in a co-ordinated environment. > But so did a lot of the pre update assassins. > Old Rengar struggled in pro play. > Old Katarina struggled in pro play. > > Shaco struggles in pro play. > Hecarim struggles in pro play. > Nasus struggles in pro play. > There are so many champions that struggle in co ordinated environments but can be/have been SQ terrors. > Was it reasonable to say "No don't nerf Rengar, he may be crushing solo queue but in competitive he's not too hot, so tbh he's fine."? > Of course not. Well not quite. She isn't strong in pro play because she has exploitable weaknesses that pro players are aware of and play around... that's her weakness at being out passivivesed (cause that's a word). She is completely one dimensional, she disengages and keeps people alive... all well and good and she is one of the best, but that's all she does, no engage, no sustain, no lock down nor pick potential. And that's her issue, she gets out done heavily in this regard. That's why she isn't favoured in pro play... she is too ridged. If their team is engaging a lot then she is fine but as soon as they adapt and initiate a siege or start farming/split pushing janna is out of luck. The only reason this is mainly in pro play that she struggles and not solo Q is that people are much more likely to focus on fights or to go for the more action oriented routes for the instant gratification than to siege or play the long game... which benefits janna heavily. But this is no different to any other champion... miss reading situations or going for an incorrect play is gonna get you killed... if your against a wombo combo team you don't want to team fight, people still do team fight but the obvious answer to a team comp like that is to not do so. The obvious answer to mundo is grievous wounds, sion is % damage, yi it's cc, malph it's not grouping up and % armour pen, rammus it's % armour pen and life steal, all magic damage users it's magic resist, all physical damage dealers it's armour. I hope your getting the point of all this. Everything in this game requires you to adapt to it... in low elo you don't see that happen thus champions like yi are seen as overpowered despite not being so. Same here except it's not as obvious as a yi. You've got to play her game, play passively, out scale, siege, force her to start fights... it's a weird one as no other champion requires you to beat them at their own game which is why it's overlooked enough to create the illusion of being weaknessless... this is why I rarely struggle vs a janna when I've got my tahm, despite being melee I can play safe, poke from afar and keep my teammate safe which results in a farm lane which we can later transfer to a stronger mid to late by causing more stalemates that we can draw an advantage from. As with rengar it was different. He was too strong in solo Q and not pro play because of the difference in servers. Pro play is done on a LAN server, thus there is absolutely no lag and no latency, commands happen instantly which means that they can outright react to something faster than the same player could on a normal solo Q server... that meant that rengar's issue of being too fast for people to meaningfully respond to got lessened because in pro play they statistically have an advantage in this. So it wasn't solo Q players not understanding what to do, instead it was pro players getting a distinct advantage over solo Q players when it comes to reaction times. > > The "delete Janna" statement was hyperbole, and something I've previously said a lot in some form or another over the years for fun. "Delete Janna pls" was pretty much a signature for me at one point. > But even so I fail to see your point. I've had numerous champions I've enjoyed over the years have been essentially deleted by massive changes that messed with who they were, or were just nerfed to oblivion, so I see no reason why Janna should get special treatment. > Why not? Because Skarner wasn't as popular as Janna? > They took away a lot of who he used to be, what made him Skarner, and then just replaced it with a load of boring junk that no one wanted or asked for, and even after massive outrage and overwhelmingly negative feedback they refused to look at Skarner and tweak him to remove the Spires. > So yeah. I've lost many mains over the years due to excessive nerfs or bad reworks, I don't see why Janna mains shouldn't have to risk a taste of that as well. Except the main difference is that skarner is still in the game and still is skarner. Just because you don't like the new skarner doesn't mean every skarner main won't, even if there is only 10% of the skarner mains continuing to main skarner then that's still pleased more players than literally deleting him which would have resulted in 0% of the skarner mains continuing to main him for obvious reasons. Reworks/nerfs and out right deletion are very different things... and deletion is never an option because in every rework there is a focus on what their mains like about a champion, these are preserved... there is always a focus on the best parts of a champion, deletion just ignores all of this. And janna isn't a priority for a rework... no way should she take presidence over some of the champions who desperately need a rework more than her. > Oh and you remembered me. Aww. I'm touched <3 I tend to take note of the author before reading a post... when a name pops up enough times I tend to remember them, and considering you always post threads which I tend to read (controversial threads which are ripe for discussions over) it's not surprising that I still remember you (I seem to remember a lot of nerf Janna and sion threads).
>You just need to play entirely by her rules, otherwise you stand no chance. The other members of her team do not matter, in order to beat Janna you need to play passive even if you lose the scaling game hard. Ok. >Rengar was weak in co-ordinated environments because LAN has about 25 less ping. Ok. >I'm going to lecture you on a champion you and the few other Skarner mains played extensively, knew and loved. Not a single person preferred the updated Skarner, but it's ok because there are is the possibility someone might like new Skarner and 0 < 1. Also what is hyperbole. Ok. >Janna isn't a good candidate for a rework. Not going to back that statement up with any reasons or explain why she's fine despite being a champion that is boring, uninteractive and objectively badly designed, she just doesn't need a rework. Ok. Everyone seems to forget how I had an annoying tendency of being right. I said Hecarim was going to be a strong solo queue pick, before his rise in popularity and extreme dominance. I was laughed at and told "He'll be worse than the top tier junglers so why would I pick him?". He came in to the meta, and I told everyone they were building him wrong and that red smite was better. Again, laughed at and ridiculed, until pro tier junglers shifted toward red smite due to how much better it was. I said Karma was insane and should be given attention. Once again, no one listened, then about a month later she became really popular and dominant. Twitch. Granted this is a bad example because I was praising him before the stealth rework, was ignored but then people started playing him once the rework was announced to get a feel of old twitch. Then people realised yeah he was rather strong. His real dominance came with the stealth rework, and I can't take credit for that, but he was still really strong before hand. "Run 10% scaling CDR on caster ADCs" I said. No you're an idiot, I *need* that 8 MR in all lanes. Kinda strange how a lot of top tier ADCs will run 10% on champs like Lucian and Jhin because it means they don't need to get Lucidity boots with the ghostblade+cleaver build or the reaver build. I did say that unless you absolutely 100% need the MR because you're against something like Zyra, CDR makes far more sense. But nah, I knew nothing because I'm just a support main, I didn't understand how important the 8 MR was on ADCs. Funny how top ADCs are doing that now though. Don't go full AP/Tank Ivern, he's a support Jungler. Don't max Q, max E and rush an athene's then build utility. Sure, the buffs to Ivern helped but what was his build and skilling order when he was the best jungler in the game before he got nerfed due to how strong that was? I don't quite remember. And lastly, even though there were a tonne of other examples, we have Zac, or more specifically running a crap load of CDR in runes. Hmm what are the top tier Zac mains running? Granted last time I checked they typically run 30% scaling, and I only ever considered 20%, but yeah. I was totally an idiot for not running AP quints and MR blues like everyone else, it's not as if he scales ridiculously hard with CDR and it's a tricky to itemise stat for an AP manaless tank. It's almost like I know what I'm talking about. I didn't end up getting lucky and getting carried to masters (Well maybe a little, like I said I reached masters on an account where I 1 tricked Janna, of course I got carried). In conclusion, {{champion:33}}
: If she is uncounterable she would be pick or ban in pro play... she is barely played there. Kinda shows that she isn't uncounterable. In solo Q people tend to fall into traps that janna can take advantage of, in pro play they know the traps and can avoid them. No different to a lot of champions, they can be extremely strong when people fall into traps or underestimate them... janna ain't alone here, she is just the one you seem to have a massive issue with (like seriously I swear most of the nerf janna threads on here come from you, also says a lot about the validity of your claims if your the only one who seems to have a bone to pick)m Also > #DeleteJanna2k17 Not gonna happen. Imagine if your main got deleted because some people started complaining... you would be pretty pissed at riot and would feel it was unfair that a small minority got your champion completely removed. So why would it be suddenly acceptable for you to ask this upon someone else's main.
Solo Queue != Pro play She has exploitable weaknesses in a co-ordinated environment. But so did a lot of the pre update assassins. Old Rengar struggled in pro play. Old Katarina struggled in pro play. Shaco struggles in pro play. Hecarim struggles in pro play. Nasus struggles in pro play. There are so many champions that struggle in co ordinated environments but can be/have been SQ terrors. Was it reasonable to say "No don't nerf Rengar, he may be crushing solo queue but in competitive he's not too hot, so tbh he's fine."? Of course not. As I said in the other comment, Janna's SQ prowess is unreasonably strong. The "delete Janna" statement was hyperbole, and something I've previously said a lot in some form or another over the years for fun. "Delete Janna pls" was pretty much a signature for me at one point. But even so I fail to see your point. I've had numerous champions I've enjoyed over the years have been essentially deleted by massive changes that messed with who they were, or were just nerfed to oblivion, so I see no reason why Janna should get special treatment. Why not? Because Skarner wasn't as popular as Janna? They took away a lot of who he used to be, what made him Skarner, and then just replaced it with a load of boring junk that no one wanted or asked for, and even after massive outrage and overwhelmingly negative feedback they refused to look at Skarner and tweak him to remove the Spires. So yeah. I've lost many mains over the years due to excessive nerfs or bad reworks, I don't see why Janna mains shouldn't have to risk a taste of that as well. Oh and you remembered me. Aww. I'm touched <3
Febos (EUW)
: Janna doesn't counter other supports. Janna "counters" playstyle. She counters divers and assassins. Janna doesn't stand a chance against siegers. Because Janna is so simple, you can't really counter her; you can only counter her playstyle: passive playstyle. How do you counter that? I already mentioned it. You pick something that doesn't need to fight to win. Top: {{champion:126}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:57}} Jungle: {{champion:427}} {{champion:72}} {{champion:2}} Mid: {{champion:34}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:99}} Bot: {{champion:51}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:110}} Support: {{champion:267}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:117}} Pokers or Siegers is how you win against Janna and passive supports like her (Soraka, Nami, ...) *** Janna is so good in Solo-Q because players are agressive and don't play as a team, most of the time. But a siege comp is less effective in Solo-Q because there's less coordination.
&gt;Doesn't counter other supports. So that's why pretty much every melee support that faces her cries? And "Just counter her" is a terribly flawed statement. This isn't Overwatch where you can go "Dang, my pick isn't working well since their composition makes it hard for me, I really need to switch." League is a moba. You pick once and then are stuck with that for 40 minutes. If you pick the wrong champion and go against Janna, you're useless. Your options and win conditions will be so severely limited *because of a single champion*, and that's just horrible game design. Even if you do manage to pick champions that do well against her, she's still only one pick. The rest of her composition can have free reign with countering your picks, simply because of how hard it is to match Janna. Sure, you can pick the perfect composition to counter specifically her, and have something like a Jayce top, Nunu jungle, Xerath mid, Varus adc and a Soraka support, but then what happens when the rest of her team picks champions that crush that line up? The amount of effort for Janna to counter the enemy team vs the amount of effort needed to deal with Janna is absurd and not good design. Countering a champion shouldn't be primarily limited to champion select, that's a disgusting state for a champion to be in. And the funny part? Most people know and agree with that. The problem is that she's "Just a support", so how broken she is doesn't get taken seriously. When you had old Rengar, and his counterplay was to ban him, pick an abundance of tanks, and to make sure you were never alone if he was strong enough to kill you. If you told someone to "just counterpick" or any of the other terribly flawed statements that get thrown around when discussing Janna? They'd tear you apart, and rightfully so. It wasn't ok that he'd insta delete squishies, and saying "well it's your own fault for picking champions that struggle against him" was such an obviously bad argument that you wouldn't say it. It's unreasonable to have to pick around a single champion. She's terribly designed. She hails from an era where the design team was not particularly advanced or experienced, and her state reflects that. If she were any other role than support, she'd have gotten what she deserved long ago. Re read what you wrote, and replace Janna with Rengar, one of the release juggernauts or some other hilariously broken champion. And then ask yourself, "Is this a healthy champion?" The answer is a resounding no.
: Janna is hardly the biggest problem in the meta right now.
She is an eternal problem and needs reworking.
Rioter Comments
: [OPINION] Nerfs, Buffs and Balanced
&gt; Nami is not a champion it seems. Feels bad man.
Rioter Comments
: Yasuo rework and balance
How to balance Yasuo: Step 0: Do nothing since he's already balanced and in a perfectly fine spot. Stay mad :^ )
kjono1 (EUW)
: What I hate about playing support, by a lover of the support role.
Plus it's pretty dull. Sure support can be a really good role to climb with and they're definitely important. But there's not as much joy to be had. I played support as my main for three seasons, and at the end of a game it'll likely be a case of "Woo we won." And that's it. That's all I'll be happy about. There are some very rare games where I made big plays and played out of my mind, and those are great. But they're rare. Then you pick something else and the difference is just night and day. You're not playing babysitter for 40 minutes. You're actually enjoying yourself. Pick Draven hit 500 AD and run around two hitting people while being unkillable. Pick Hecarim and run around killing everything in sight whilst not dying yourself. It's just so much more rewarding and while you will have games where there's a 4v2 party bot, it's just more fun in general. 2 shotting people or saying FU tanks and killing them as if they were also paper as Draven is satisfying. 100-0ing people with a Culling as Lucian is so satisfying. Landing a package across the enemy team as Corki and just watching them all melt is satisfying. Landing a bubble or a clutch shield feels, good-ish and that's the thing. You play like a god and play perfect as a support and you win. You play like a god and play perfectly as a Carry and you get pentas, hard carry games and have everyone recognise that you were the best player in that game. The difference is staggering.
: How to play Janna/Sona
How can you fail to play Janna, she's one of the simplest and most braindead champions in the game and you pretty much have to try suicide in order to die on her. Get coin so it doesn't matter if you mess up in lane, and that's about it. Congratulations, you now know how to play a champion that doesn't really have a skill curve or mechanical requirements, is one of the safest champions in the game, always strong regardless of meta or nerfs, and has no real bad match ups or reasonably exploitable weaknesses. Don't you dare says she's overpowered though, as Janna abusers will come out of the woodwork to justify how their champion is actually very mediocre and they play her because of their love of the champion and her exciting gameplay, not because she's perpetually busted af.
Darkdash (EUNE)
: I meant some "extra" lore.
>Asking for good lore from Riot in 2016 El - oh - el.
: PSA: Camille is now LIVE.
As usual, for those looking to purchase her who have all other champions, you can get her for 2400 IP cheaper by purchasing 3 mystery champion shards at 1700 each and rerolling them in to a random champion. Since you don't have any other champions left to buy, you are guaranteed Camille.
PepijndM (EUW)
: I think he was correct, the statement (of Rito) was something like: "50 Lethality breaks even with 50 flat armor pen at lvl 12, so we 'balanced' stuff from (say) 50 armor pen to 40 lethality" they didn't just convert armor pen -> lethality, they nerved at the same time
Checked the [6.22 Patch notes](http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-622-notes#patch-lethality), it was as I thought, they were talking about the runes and other non item Lethality sources. They just seem to have forgotten the part where they buff itemised lethality...
Doombot7 (EUNE)
: If i remember correctly Lethality equals Armor Pen as soon as they get level 12, and its purpose was the destruction of the filthy Ghostblade Armor Pen build on ADC's and AD assasins.
Unfortunately not, you might be confused with something you read on the mathematics behind the old ArPen runes vs new Lethality runes. But for example, lets say you have 10 Lethality. You only gain 40% of that as flat ArPen, the remaining 60% scales on the enemy level. If it did break even at level 12, then 0.4 x 10 + ((0.6 x 10 x 12)/18) would be greater than or equal to 10. However that's not true, as 4 + (72/18) = 4 + 4 = 8
: How do you buff it for Zed/Talon without completely breaking Kha and similar champs who are quite oppressive right now?
The thing is, they're arguably oppressive right now for other reasons than Lethality, and as a result should require individual tuning to bring them in line. It shouldn't be about "How do we buff for X?", the question should be "How do we buff it so it can fulfill it's niche?". Currently it fulfills the niche of squishy killing extremely poorly, as Lethality doesn't really allow an Assassin to pose a credible threat to squishies at any point in a game. Personally, I believe that both Assassins and ADCs need a fair amount of indirect love. Assassins need things like Lethality buffs sure, but ADCs still have a lot of problems which quite frankly aren't acceptable and mean that it's hard to fulfill what an Assassin could and should be because their primary target is so fragile, and that means we get people like you saying: "How can we buff the struggling Assassins without making okish Assassins broken as hell?" Which is a valid question, please don't take that as an attack. The main problem with this game is how fragile and delicately balanced certain archetypes are, when compared to other archetypes. On that Spectrum you have carry style champions at one end, and then tanks and more supportive champions at the other. You compare an ADC to a tank, and you'll see that your average ADC is far more volatile and far less consistent than your average tank, as there's the problem that ADCs or an Assassin innately require more skill and are harder to play than a tank or a support, meaning that it's far easier to ruin the gameplay patterns and win conditions of an ADC/Assassin than it is to ruin those of a support/tank. An ADC/Assassin gets camped and shut down, they're likely going to be absolutely useless in fights, whereas a tank/support will still have their high base values and innate kit value and cheaper itemisation, so they'll still be rather useful. This game needs an actual serious update which tackles proper issues, and not just silly stuff like "lul we put plants in the jungle!!!!". I'm disappointed in how this preseason turned out, and I'm disappointed with what could be done but hasn't been.
Rioter Comments
Bubbarain (EUW)
: Randomly cause it was one of the first topics on forum ATM I decided to read a bit since there was a mention of ekko champion, but man with all the respect since u are diamond you have no idea what you taking about, probably being a diamond gives you a lot of confidence of thinking you know everything. I won't comment every single thing u mentioned but if u really played ekko ap don't need slow on passive 3rd attack , funny fact I never even noticed until I read the nerf.. did you know u get the speed after 3rd attack? I suppose u don't .. base damage passive decreased a little so what? Q got even more percentage .. but still u never played ekko and it's pretty sad to even comment. Ekko is an assasin like many others and 1 shot people if used correctly with this kinda rework change ekko will be even stronger and won't be selected as top tank. Cheers Ps- I would never deep analyze or comment a champion that I barely use I did comment your post cause I found it funny
If the enemy is slowed then they're not as able to trade back as Ekko runs away. Particularly against mages who are reliant on MS such as Auerlion or Melee champions, the slow really hurts their ability to return fire. The slow matters a surprising amount in that. And you do realise how little the Q buff will matter? It's a 10% AP buff, which would require a lot of AP to compensate for how much he lost off his passive. As for how much Ekko I've played, I had a dedicated Ekko account where I'd only play Ekko and GP. I like Ekko because I played him a fair amount. I like him so much I made this post. In the long run will AP Ekko be better? Probably. By removing Tank Ekko, if (and probably when) AP Ekko is too weak after these changes, then he'll be tuned up to compensate. I don't really have any vested interests as I don't play League anymore, so this isn't a "Riot why you nerf Ekko?????????!!?!?" thread. It's meant to be a discussion about the update from a design perspective, and it's for that reason that I broke down each of the changes, evaluated whether it's a good or bad change and stated the reasons why. In my opinion, the outright removal of the slow is bad, and I stated why. In my opinion, the changes to his ult are good and I stated why. You're perfectly welcome to disagree, but please do so in a more mature and constructive fashion, not just "lol ur a moron".
: Your post was very long compared to the typical post about. "OMG X AND Y ARE OP PLZ NERF!!!!!!!" I apreciate that. Have a nice day!
Not sure why you got downvoted. Sure you didn't contribute to the discussion, but at least you were polite.
: I disagree slightly with the slow point... I don't think it's as paramount as you say. Ekko doesn't really use slows to land the stun, it's difficult to actually do that with his passive slow because it's not that common to have your stun landing while they are slowed, bit awkward for that. The way I see ekko players land the stun (both personal experience and seeing ekko at higher elo play in recordings) is that he initiates with it... throws it down where the ekko thinks the target will be, then as it becomes visible use the Q slow and E to get the stun. The only time I see ekko not lead with the stun is tank ekko where he has the survivability to stay in one place and bait people into a fist fight where his W will land but that is not only difficult still to time with the slow as you don't have much control over it, and irrelevant as tank ekko is supposed to be getting nerfed. But personally I can see {{item:3116}} getting brought on him... it wasn't before as ekko had too many slows in his kit to accommodate for it but now he doesn't have his passive slow so a rylies could definitely work. EDIT: forgot to say > So that's about it. If this receives a good response I'll do more in the future, as this is honestly a really interesting topic. Go for it... it's always nice when people discuss their opinions on here and it opens up room for discussions which could benefit everyone.
The problem is his throwing the stun out and trying to catch up is typically completely reliant on the enemy messing up. A large part of landing his stun is for the enemy to be CC'd, so whenever someone gets straight up caught out by the stun chances are they messed up. Ekko is meant to be able to dip in and out of combat, and the lack of slow will mean it's rather difficult to prepare a target for a stun, disengage then re engage when the stun is ready to go off. Additionally, in lane chances are you won't use your stun to engage using the pattern of Go in to fog -> Cast stun -> walk in to lane-> dash in and combo with the stun. Instead, you'll typically engage on to someone after they waste cooldowns, while throwing down your stun so you can get a more favourable trade and a few more hits in before disengaging. It's a much more reliable combo and the slow is a key part of that, and unlike the combo with fog you're not completely reliant on sloppy play by your opponent. You're absolutely right, he shouldn't be able to just brute force a situation, he's meant to be an Assassin after all, but that doesn't mean he should lose a lot of kill pressure in lane and options in teamfights. I was hesitant to talk about Rylai's though, both because it'll likely see a nerf soon, and because all Rylai's would add is a slow to passive and a slow to E (Not sure it'll actually apply on E but E does apply Spell Effects).
Rioter Comments
: Please write that in the Warthunder Forum too. Players have been telling that to Gaijin Entertainment for years too but the grind only gets worse which actually is a reason me, a total WW2 enthusiast, barely spend time in Warthunder anymore.
The problem is at the end of the day, as the guy above me said, F2P games have to get their revenue from somewhere. It's not unreasonable for a company to say, "We've provided you with a game that's completely free and you're under no obligation to pay a penny, so we're not going to improve our game in areas that might cut in to our revenue". For all we know, Riot is a struggling company that needs the grind to promote people buying stuff with real money and it's just not possible to do things like reducing grinding. I'd doubt it due to their size, however at the end of the day they don't owe us anything. That's why they'll likely only do things if they believe it'll dramatically increase customer satisfaction, as happy customers tend to pay more liberally. I'd certainly think it'd be a good thing to make runes free in order to allow the rune system to be overhauled and become a more integral part of the game since you no longer have pay-walled power, but maybe there's an angle I haven't considered. Maybe it'd be too much work to balance all 132(133 with Ivern) with the multitude of rune combinations, or maybe they really do just need the grind to indirectly drive up revenue. We do need to remember they are a company first, game publisher second.
: Make runes free = make people buy champions with IP = no one will buy them for RP = lost a lot of money because people who got no time, but want to play the game will now not spend any money on unlocking champions, because now they have enough IP to play whatever they want. If this game was in a "pay once" system, it would be another matter, but it is not. And tier 2 runes are both cheap AND they are good enough to start with
Except Riot have (and rightfully so), implemented a lot of things that have decreased their income for the sake of making a better game. Decreased XP for account leveling means less boosts are being purchased. Chromas being purchasable for IP is obviously chromas which won't be purchased for RP. So even if it was a case of Riot want maximum income, it doesn't change the fact that forcing players to grind is bad. It leads to decreased player satisfaction and increases the likelihood that players get burned out and just quit, which results in no income at all since they quit and there's no possibility of them buying anything. At the end of the day there's still 132 champions which need to be bought, which is a hell of a time investment.
Rioter Comments
Show more

Heckin Gay

Level 33 (EUW)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion