: Tibbers slow without drowbacks would be a straight up buff if you can use it in every situation. I was saying bullshit or it's just too long to read? XD
Well to be honest i think i only got 50% of what you were trying to say .. Maybe i'm tired. But yeah adding a slow to tibbers would be a straight up buff, but that's not what i'm asking for. I'm asking for a slow on tibbers and sayint that i wouldn't mind if they compensate by nerfing his speed buffs / Movement speed or the way he works. Cause sometimes i have tibbers enraged and %%%%ing scuttle crab up for 5 seconds during a teamfight for no reason while we were fighting in dragon / baron pit. Tibber's IA can be stupid sometimes. And i think improvements can be made on that side. Not AP ratios, but just the way tibbers works once he's summoned, i think a lot of adjustments could be made to make annie more viable. And an example could be to add a slow on tibbers, to prevent annie players from having to buy Rylais. Syndra has a slow, orianna has a slow, taliyaah has a slow, kassadin has a slow , .. I don't see why a slow would make her over powered. (By slow i don't mean a 99% slow like zilean, even a 10-20% slow would be fine, it's just to apply liandries, nothing else. I don't care about the slow itself.
: Annie's place in this meta
Even lux got a buff on her shield a few months ago and another buff on her ult CD 4 patches ago for some reason, while the champion was doing just fine and even picked in competitive a few times before these buffs in S6 .. So why would you buff Lux ? And keep nerfing annie on her spells, and through items and leave her like that ..
: How are syndra and orianna not a counter pick to Annie? They can bully her out of lane. Not only they outrange her but with good reaction time they can shockwave /scatter the weak the moment she flashes, possibly turning the fight or leaving while she lost her flash
He's an Ahri main, he can gapclose a champion from miles away and he thinks every other champion can do that with "protobelt" .. ^^'
: > [{quoted}](name=Huneybooboo,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=3OI7UO7E,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-13T20:17:27.677+0000) > > Lol ??? Hello ??? > > Syndra and orianna and cassio not counter picks to annie ?? > > ZzZzZzZzZzz No they are not. Anie can protobelt q w ult them and they are dead. She is vulnerable pre 6. Affer level 6 the tankyness of annie is strong enough to alllow her to getvin their phase and burst them. Counters of annie are lux , xerarth and maybe tilaya.
Lol, alright you're going to teach me annie's counters now .. Fkin hell :D Syndra is annie's worst match up ever. And orianna is rough and she bullies you out of lane and the more the game goes, the safer she gets with her range and her banshees. Xerath is hard, but not as much as the 2 others, and taliyah is hard.
: > [{quoted}](name=Huneybooboo,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=3OI7UO7E,comment-id=000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-13T20:22:37.665+0000) > > I wasn't talking to you when i said that. > > Her counter play is : "Maw, steraks, banshees, abyssal mask, edge of knight, merc treads, etc .." i'm aware that wrong buffs could make her not fun at all to play against, and i totally agree and that's not what i'm asking for. I'm just asking for either small ajustments, or another rework. > > As i said, annie CAN burst champs if she gets in range, which gets impossible from mid to late game unless she has flash or pulls of a miracle flank. Omg. Protobelt man!!! You don't need flash! Get a freaking peotobelt.
That item is too bad, and annie has too many other core items she needs to get. And that item doesn't help much anyway ..
noob infant (EUNE)
: yeah annie is kinda weak right now but if we look at the trends riot wants to move away from point and click and add skillshots to everything, that means that all champions that do not statisfy that criteria will not be anywhere close to meta and changed in the long run.
Yeah i don't mind that change, that's what the point of this topic is :) I would only get upset if they move annie from a mid lane carry mage, to another role like support like they did with maokai.
: Imho AP itemization atm is kinda %%%%ed up and clearly favors some mages over others (who can proc banshee with the littlest cost, who doesn't need extra utility). As for Annie, what about giving her a straight buff who might raise her skill expression? I'm thinking they could add to her a built in slow, when molten shield is activated AFTER landing an ability. You sat at 3 stacks to flash tibbers using it as a stack add only? You 'd better burst. You were charged and successfully ambushed enemy team punishing their lack of vision/your team got an engage for you? Bear slowing stuff. This would also help her a lot if she ever manage to trade early game cause you could q full stack-e-w slowing while you auto and they can't fight back cause you have damage reduction (let's be honest you kinda deserved that if you let a full stack Annie walk up at you). If you do the traditional E with q mid-fly nothing is changed. This would make laning vs her as an assassin even more painful but as far as I know she is SUPPOSED to do good versus assassins and with eon hexdrinker and banshee she has no longer free reign over them. If this turns support Annie into a strong pick for the constant slow Nerfs should be aimed at her stun duration when allies are present (this would even make solo Annie less of a pain if you get ganked by her jungler), in tfs the initiation and aoe stun is enough anyway to make shit happen but in the botlane you would be at a disadvantage with a shorter cc.. Anyway sure it's possible to come up with something better, just had this out of my mind atm. .. Or revise AP items
Just a slow on tibbers would be good, and i don't mind if they nerf tibbers movespeed and compensate it with a slow .. Tibbers isn't always there, so why would it a big deal if he applies a slow instead of having move speed buffs. It's just a slight buff to her damage with liandries. I have seen teamfights where i ulted and tibbers died in not more than 3 or 4 seconds so, it's not even a proper buff that would make her broken. It will just make it a bit easier for the people who know how to play annie. Annie was meta as support at the time her auto was 625 range, and i get it, it was too OP. But after that, her AP ratios and stun durations kept getting nerfed. Then they reworked her, which made her better, but on the other hand, they added a delay before the stun which makes it so annoying, i keep missing ults that i shouldn't miss. All what i'm asking for, is for riot to see what they can do for this champ, cause she has been forgotten for an entire season, with not a single change. Probably cause of bronze players whining about how much damage she does ^^'
: {{item:3102}} riot should revert this item IMO 0.25 R/W stun delay should be removed as well. I know riot did 0.25 delay for KR overlords with unhuman reaction time who can flash out of tibbers but mostly used by scripters or just by being lucky
Skilled annie players that used to be able to stun people from the edge, and max range, keep missing a lot of ults since that delay was added. Cause they were used to these kind of things. And yeah like, even annie bot which has over 5K games on annie keeps missing some of the ults he believed he could hit, cause he was used to how it was before.
: Imho (but I am a silver scrub so idk) Annie herself is fine.. Itemization %%%%ed her. Banshee basically entirely negates the champion unless someone else is engagin to proc it for you, in teamfight she has the malphite syndrome.. Engage , unload your combo. Did they die? Good! They are alive? Well too bad for you you are now a sitting duck if you don't leave the fight. She Needs proto to do her job, and if she wants to stick around you have to go for rilay and liandry to do anything. Add boots, 4 slots occupied. If there are tanks void staff is needed , 5 slots. You have basically only 1 slot free so either mana item, rabadon or a defensive item. Maybe it was just me but I tended to stack dorans to be able to waveclear without going oom so if this is really the way to go she is going to be even worse in the new patch...
Yeah you're right, on everything you said. That's exactly what i'm saying, the items that can make her viable are rylais and liandries, but it's not cost efficient, and there are other items that annie needs as well. The thing is, you flash forward in a teamfight you ult, then you're like useless for the 5-3 upcoming minutes. And if you didn't pull of a great fight, then you're kind of screwed. Not to mention how easy it is to get banshees, guardian angel, right now. These items counter hard engage champs and they got so popular.
: Yes. That's supposed to be one of her weaknesses. She is good in teamfigjts and catching squishys. Her wave clear is decent when minions are pushed. > [{quoted}](name=Huneybooboo,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=3OI7UO7E,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-13T10:36:51.741+0000) > > > And even when she's alone in lane, if she Ws the wave, she'll one shot the 3 caster minions, but she will have to Q the 3 melee champions, at every stage of the game, which makes her waveclear slow, and harder to rotate in later stages of the game. When it comes to all what you say when it comes to burst, damage etc, i agree, but no way annie can engage without her flash, which if you read my topic properly, you'll realise i said "Annie is strong when she has her flash" and when she doesn't, she's a bad champion. > Protobelt is your solution.
"her waveclear is decent when minions are pushed" what does that even mean ? That sentence damaged my brain.
: {{item:3102}} riot should revert this item IMO 0.25 R/W stun delay should be removed as well. I know riot did 0.25 delay for KR overlords with unhuman reaction time who can flash out of tibbers but mostly used by scripters or just by being lucky
Finally one comment that makes sense.
: I am plat (use to br plat 1 ) not saying that my elo is the best, but i see that annie has many strengths and also has some counterplay and weaknesses. Her counterplay is the banshee's. And her weakness is the lack of mobility ( which she can enhance with protobelt). Her strengths is she can farm very easily with q ( i have experience the easiest farming of my life while playing her when she didn't have the tools she has today). She is not supose to roam and shouldn't be able to roam. She can burst many champs and I as well as riot think she is in a reasonable spot. Any buffs will make her unfun to play against especially if annie gets picked up at the support role again.
I wasn't talking to you when i said that. Her counter play is : "Maw, steraks, banshees, abyssal mask, edge of knight, merc treads, etc .." i'm aware that wrong buffs could make her not fun at all to play against, and i totally agree and that's not what i'm asking for. I'm just asking for either small ajustments, or another rework. As i said, annie CAN burst champs if she gets in range, which gets impossible from mid to late game unless she has flash or pulls of a miracle flank.
: Just because there aren't many streamers dont assume that she is not played in higher elos. Annie is very easily mechanicly. In order to give her buffs in tje areas you mention tje will have to compensate elsewhere
Lol ??? Hello ??? Syndra and orianna and cassio not counter picks to annie ?? ZzZzZzZzZzz
Eratos (EUW)
: it is strong ok....but is countered easy dude...you cant ult tanks and ulting ad with {{item:3026}} youre just useless.....this item %%%%s you up so easily..Ap can rush {{item:3157}} and amen..
Like you for example, you play alistar and you say it yourself, it's easy. But do you think he's good right now ? No he's not. He's getting bullied by all these poke supports, and shielding supports are better right now. I barely see alistar played at the moment.
Eratos (EUW)
: it is strong ok....but is countered easy dude...you cant ult tanks and ulting ad with {{item:3026}} youre just useless.....this item %%%%s you up so easily..Ap can rush {{item:3157}} and amen..
Watch LL Stylish play zed, or BDD or some other good zed players, they make it easy. Hourglass can save you against zed, but you can't kill him anyway .. I can say the same about malmortus on zed against annie or edge of knight right ?
Eratos (EUW)
: sorry dude i don tmain mid...and when i paly annie i gain free elo..with zed..nop.Cuz zed is skilled...and hard to play...with annie you can get out of gold with zed no...Is too hard to play.And if lcs play him must be a strategy out there.. But annie is easy to play and you 1 shot people..in time that zed is not easy..i got diamond with someone like alistar dude..easy champ...but even if i play zed 1000 games i cant climb with that guy is complicate..
Well it is complicated but if you know how to play it and get good at it, you are not limited. You can do so many things and it's strong, i get it that it's hard to play. Annie is easy, sure, but she has a hard laning phase most of the time, and is too limited cause she relies on her flash, and she has to commit. Easy to gank, squishy, and yea .. :/
Eratos (EUW)
: zed??????are you %%%%%% just in case????Youre not pro player...zed is hard to play even pro players cant play him so easily and i watched lcs no 1 picked him mayb eyou watched something else like europe..they all bad. You can counter zed hard {{item:3157}} or{{item:3026}} even ad are not afraid of him anymore...Always qq about zed yasuo gp when they all skilled champs as hell.Zed got nerf more then 3 times..and is really hard to play lategame. Beside the fact taht his weakness was always armor.. Annie is not played cuz his midlane can be countered..its still a strong pick but its a easy champ too.You dont see many easy champs in lcs.Dunno why idc. But annie can give free elo cuz is not hard to play zed cant.
Dude, you're mistaking, i'm not talking about the champ's skillcap. Zed might have a high skillcap, but he's pretty strong. While on the other hand annie has a very low skillcap but she's just decent. A champ that's picked in competitve play, LCK, LCS and even MSI can't be weak, it makes no sense. It's common sense that a champ that's picked in competitive regularly is meta ^^' Come on buddy, you're diamond, you should know the difference between skillcap and tiers .. Holy god
: And btw ahri cannot clear a minion wave with one q. Never was the case and never will be.
Yeah you know what i'm saying, 1 Q, and after 2 seconds one other Q and you can roam. While annie has to W, but the cooldown is so high she has to finish the other minions individualli with Qs. But yeah ^^' seems like when people don't play one champ, they always think it's over powered. And honestly, if you think annie is doing well at the moment, you're completely wrong.
Eratos (EUW)
: Eh...maybe she is kinda weak now but so is {{champion:238}} .Honestly zed is just dead..Annie is still legit somehow.But ppl dont care about her cuz was never mutch of a pick.You can always counter her with range etc..
Zed ? He got picked 3 times in competitve only in LCK this past months x') .. Holy gosh, have you seen annie in competitive ???? Zed is a strong meta mid laner right now, maybe not among the top 3 but he's definitely top 7 .. And yeah i agree with your comment when it comes to countering her. Thank you for that. People think annie just runs into a team and stuns 5 people and one shots them, in theory, while in reality, it's not the case.
Perilum (EUW)
: You want a champion with no weakness. There will be no champ without a weakness. And heavy burst and CC comes with major drawbacks. Mobility and range in this case. Nobody cares if you're main or not. You don't get buffs, just because it's your prefered champ. And whining about that she has problems against high range champs like Talyah or Syndra is next level. Because these are her counter picks. Suprise. Go even in lane. You don't need to be always that aggressive little girl which throws a tantrum. Learn to get carried instead of recommending imbalance in the game, so you get your comfort pick with no drawbacks who is in every situation more than viable. You can go B5 to Master with Annie without any problem. That speaks for the champ itself.
Why are you talking to me like that, that's not a very nice way to talk to people you know .. First of all, you are silver, and you need to keep that in mind ^^' And yeah the point i'm making is all meta mid laners are annie counter picks. And i'm not saying i want a champ without weaknesses, i want a champ that's balanced. Maybe in your Bronze / Silver elo, annie is strong and you can't deal with it, but in higher elos it gets harder. I love how you say "you go even in lane" like you can chose to do it, if it was a choice then i'll play nasus or veigar all day and "go even in lane" and win every game, but that's not how the game works .. "learn to get carried" Hmmm ok ? If it was up to me, i'd love to get carried every game, what are you trying to say ? That makes absolutely no sense ^^' .. That speaks for the champ itself ? Then tell me about a challenger / master annie main other than "annie bot" ? ^^ I can tell you about 10 teemo mains in NA challenger. Zzzzz i'm done arguing with you and good luck in your elo.
Wen294 (EUW)
: Ahri can only kill a minion wave with 1 q if she has sufficient ap. In this way she is no different from a well placed annie w. Also if she wants to kill 3 minions or so the rest might be hit in an unfavourable way making her miss some cs left and right. Annie can q without a care in the world if she's alone, making her very good at shoving lane. Even if she isn't alone she only has to keep an eye out for her passive, making her able to farm well with barely any cost. Other midlaners have to use auto attacks or costly abilities.
... No, annie's W will never one shot melee minions no matter how much AP she has ^^' . And that's the point i'm making, Q minions to kill them will roughly take 10 seconds per wave. Enough time for the enemy mid laner to roam freely and rotate while you're left in lane. And friend, i don't want to be rough or anything but please, nothing to do with the fact you're silver or anything, but at least play annie a few games cause i feel like you're just saying random things just to have something to say ^^' ...
: Yes. Cz then she will be a very easy champ for invades if she starts with q on stun. And yes if she gets liandrys proc that means she wont need Riley's which is HUGE buff. Annie is onr of those champs which is very unfun to play against. Not OP but very unfun. She has a very essy learning curve with good burst. Targeted stun , aoe stub aoe burst. Not to mention when she dies tibers gets enraged and gains AS and movement speed. I think Annie is barely balanced atm and any buffs to her are likely to make her broken.
Guys .. In lane, if annie gets in range to W the whole wave she gets vulnerable, while champions like victor or ahri can one shot the wave with 1 abilitie without putting themselves in danger. And even when she's alone in lane, if she Ws the wave, she'll one shot the 3 caster minions, but she will have to Q the 3 melee champions, at every stage of the game, which makes her waveclear slow, and harder to rotate in later stages of the game. When it comes to all what you say when it comes to burst, damage etc, i agree, but no way annie can engage without her flash, which if you read my topic properly, you'll realise i said "Annie is strong when she has her flash" and when she doesn't, she's a bad champion. Look at annie's stats, her winrates / pickrates, it keeps decreasing through the patches, it's getting rougher and rougher since the new banshees, meta champions, tank items, etc ..
Perilum (EUW)
: Annie is good as always. She is always Meta and always powerful. She is one of the few champs in the game who can take a dump on a whole enemy team by itself and can heavy burst and control a fight.
No comment here to be honest ..
: > would be to reduce tibber's movespeed and add a slow on him on the other hand to make the liandries damage passive increased. I'm not sure what ajustments could be made to make her better at the moment but i think she definitely needs it. You mean, buying a rilay ?
That's what i'm trying to say, if i can prevent buying rylais as annie and still get the liandries proc and use that spot for another big item, it would be a decent buff.
: no. Annie is meant to. E the way she is. Her mobility is supposed to be her weakness. She has tremendus burst and if played right she has some very good cc. Her farming capabilities are off the charts. Overall she is in a very good spot. The buffs you describe will make her broken.
What would make her broken ? Reduce tibber's move speed and compensate with a slow ? Start the game with stun stacked ? How would that make her broken ? ^^' I mean, tibbers dies in fights after 3 seconds if focused or smited. Farming capabilities off the charts ? You're an ahri player, you can waveclear the entire wave with 1 Q when you have enough AP while annie has to kill minions one by one in order to waveclear .. In lower elos, i can understand annie can be easy to play cause people get into melee range and don't know how to itemize against it, but from high plat to higher, it gets more and more challenging to play her. While other champs keep getting updates and buffs to remain viable (Kassadin ; Taliyah for example)
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Huneybooboo

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