Morglics (EUNE)
: who the hell needs this?
A lot of people who want to be good at the game
Rioter Comments
Kaluchii (EUW)
: Care to explain what you mean by that?
Well by only picking out three champs that each ADC is good with as other people already pointed out you missed out champions entirely like Sona despite sona being one of the best supports right now and definitely deserving a place alongside a lot of ADCs. You also missed out some fairly iconic duos like Varus, Leona or Vayne, Nami.
: I think I'm going to be hardstuck in gold/silver in season 10
The only tip you need is get better at the game. It only starts getting difficult to climb once you get way higher but as a gold player if you improve you'll climb easily. You're struggling to win because you aren't displaying a skill level above the game around you so you'll remain where you are. If you get better then you'll climb.
: Wrong MMR in ranked
Because you just finished your placements the game tends to place you lower than your MMR and rely on you displaying your skill over a much larger set of matches to make sure the MMR it has given you is correct. Basically you'll be given a certain MMR and get placed lower than that and have to prove that you deserve the MMR over a large portion of games. If this isn't the case you you don't deserve it you'll start to lose it pretty quickly.
fDbRobert (EUW)
: ADC Cheat Sheet - Best Bot Synergy Comps
Think you kinda backed yourself into a corner by only listing three champs for each ADC.
Rioter Comments
: how exactly is a bot thats consistently punishing chat logs but ignores every other aspect of the game any good tho ? are you saying the game is actually a chat simulator ? i guess i missed that information somewhere ...
And what proof do you actually have that the bot only punishes chat logs? I've seen plenty of people get banned for going disco nunu midlane without saying a word. Do you have information I don't? Maybe a list of all people ever banned? Stats from Riot about the ban reason distribution? Reality is you don't know that you just tell yourself you do.
: Given that you are complaining about change tells me you apparently cannot adapt as well as you think. Also boards displays last seasons rank, I am diamond this season as well :). If you do not like the changes, why don't you go on and play other games? Just stop complaining and wait how all the changes turn out in pre-season. No point speculating...
First off, I wasn't going off of the boards I went off of op.gg. You're diamond in flex which means absolutely nothing at all. Secondly your logic is absolutely hilarious I gotta say. By what you've said Riot could announce Season 11 changes that they intend to make the game easier to understand for new players so they're moving all champions and simply implementing 10 new ones. They're cutting the abilities down from 5 to 2 and removing jungler in place of having a duo top. Community reactions with Riot those are stupid changes NoGloryFound replies with:Lol you guys can't adapt wait to play this could be really good. You don't go play another game if the game you are currently playing is good and enjoyable you got play another game if you're bored of it so how about everyone whos getting bored of league goes and plays something else and those of us who actually enjoy the game can keep playing the game we enjoy without people who are desperate to change the game to suit them getting what they want rather than the people who like what they actually already have getting what they want.
: It seems to me that you just have a hard time adapting. Updating the game doesn't necessarily mean you have to fix anything. It could also just partly change the way you play the game. This will renew the look of most players onto the game on how to play it and how to play around important objectives. Again, that they might have been giving pre-season updates to "fix" things in the past does not mean they always have to do that. They are always looking to test/bring big gameplay changes in the pre-season.
Given that I'm en entire league ahead of you in elo I'd say I do just fine adapting to change. I can play the game just fine it's just simply the fact that I don't the need to risk ruining the game when it's already good. People getting bored will go play other games thats not going to change coz they messed around with the map 20 minutes into each game but ruining the gameplay for the sake of variety will alienate far more players than people just getting bored of league.
: community also wants less inters/trolls abouve all
It's in the very nature of the game that one teams gonna lose. Most of the time people aren't inting or trolling they're just having a bad game. If you don't want to experience that you can play co-op vs AI and you'll always be able to carry and win.
: Except your wrong in several places. The things the community has been asking for are; less snowbally, top lane tanks to actually be worth picking, and less importance on bot lane (as the game is currently very much better bot wins). The snowball isn’t to do with tower plates, it’s cause defencive itemisation sucks for anyone who isn’t a mage and anti tank is stupidly strong... which means there’s no point building tanky and everyone dies instantly, resulting in 5 damage threats per team all dying at the drop of the hat creating a fast paced snowball fest. Nerfing or getting rid of tower plates won’t change this. Riot have started making strides towards this with the conquerer changes Tanks being dead are due to the reasons above, their items suck and the counter items are too strong... again strides. The bot lane domination is also being targeted though not as heavily as I’d like (little bit less exp ain’t gonna help much)... problem is as soon as bot loses a tiny bit of relivence adc players freak out (not naming names) calling them gutted... so riot isn’t and won’t do anything meaningful to stop this. And before you say anything this bot lane domination hurts adcs just as much as other lanes... why do you think you get so many ganks, junglers are wasting their time ganking anywhere else. None of these changes are preseason worthy, you can do all of these whenever you like... and as the 10th anniversary Riot was going to pull out the stops... so yes nobody asked for the elemental rift, but what we are asking for isn’t preseason material. ___ > In season 9 they introduced a ridiculous new amount of gold in the game which again no one asked for in turret plating when the only thing we wanted was more armour on the turrets early on But that causes other issues... if towers are too difficult to take down early there’d be no reason to try, champions who rely on shoving waves or early game pressure die off because they become incapable of gaining a meaningful lead, kills in lane would matter a lot less as they no longer translate to objectives... resulting in the early game stagnating and becoming a farm fest. Tower plates allow aggressive early game champions to gain an advantage without completely robbing the opposing player of their safety net after the first gank.
I mean claiming that botlane is the most influential lane in the game is a little hilarious. By all means please try to get to Diamond as an ADC and after that we'll see if you still feel like that. "none of these changes are preseason worthy" So you think that just because it's preseason riot should change the game just for the sake of changing the game regardless of whether it's good or bad? Also you seem to be under the impression that if there was no gold from hitting the tower people wouldn't hit it. You have played league of legends right? You know that taking the turret is part of winning the game? it is physically impossible to win the game without taking at least 1 tier 1 turret. People played the game for 8 seasons without the need to take the turret for plating gold you suddenly think that will stop and everyone will go back to gentlemens agreement farm it out league? You also realise kills give gold right? Kills will still give gold exactly the same as they have always done all people are suggesting is that there should be a little more armour on the turrets to stop them going down at 5 minutes after a jungle gank.
: If they wouldn't introduce big changes every pre-season we would be playing the same game for years and years without any variety. These new changes open up new strategies and terrain to play around. I myself am pretty hyped about the changes.
Every single time they've introduced big changes in the past it was for the purpose of fixing known issues with the game. Season 5 introduced the rift scuttler and new jungle items to help not make jungle a 1 dimensional role around either playing a tank like Jarvan or Master Yi. Season 6 was a series of ADC and ADC item reworks mostly successful in diversifying a role where you would pick incredibly similar champions and the same build every game. Season 7 brought mastery changes and rift herald because there needed to be more to do on the map than just farm and gank for junglers and the mastery system was massively outdated. Season 8 brought the new rune system which again updated the previous mastery changes although this time how successful it was is arguable. Still it was nice to not have to buy runes anymore but not so nice that they power creeped damaged in the game massively. Season 9 they introduced tower plating to stop early games exploding out of control with 5 minute tower divers leading into 6 minute first turrets botlane. Again this one came with a massive issues which no need to be fixed but it still follows the pattern. So you're noticing some similarities I hope? Every single pre-season change was to address and fix a known issues or group of issues with the game. Variety for the sake of variety isn't an issue with the game. There are more possible team compositions than can ever be experienced by an individual. Again my point still remains that every other pre season the changes we asked for implemented but this just doesn't follow those same rules.
Rioter Comments
: IS AP Twisted fate still viable
AP twisted fate is still as good as it's always been people just like new things more than older things. Faker just hard carried a game at worlds on AP TF.
: When it comes to top your only right for Diamond+ the solo carry potention as a toplaner in lower divisions is litterly busted add the moment while in higher divisions it's litterly the opposite. This is why their is so much toplane going on in the toplane. On the one side toplane is totally ok for 97% of the ranked playerbase and for these 3% is just a nightmare. This might be a shocker to you but supports where extreemly weak in early seasons and their carry potentional solidly exist out the fact of going full AP with Meja's in lower mmr versus praying you have a strong carry on your team that you can support in higher mmr. Good luck carrying the laning fase with a master adc when they have a challenger adc back in early seasons. Support in early seasons where just ward bots. They where crucial in competive games but never could gain credit for a win because their impact just wasn't visible to the eye. I still remember the times where a support got oneshoted by a simple Q and than the enemy team lost the teamfight because they waisted their Q on you (back when cooldowns actually had cooldowns). Support are fine right now, just because the toplaner can't 2v1 anymore because that Janna doesn't randomly go down from AOE shouldn't be the way you play this game. Yes supports have damage now, what's the problem with that. One role shouldn't be punished so others feel like they are stronger. O boy, you really haven't seen early seasons assassins have you. The current assassins are a joke compaired to early seasons. The main differents now is that assassins actually can kill tanks. In early seasons you litterly lost the game in champion select when you didn't have a tank on your team. So you want 60 minute, protect the adc comps, marksmen that can't peel themself and small champion pools again. Good luck
The amount of assumption you made in that comment about me is hilarious. First off I've been playing longer than you. Your account was created in season 4 mine in season 2. First when did I ever say I wanted 60 minute games? I didn't say that, no one said that, but here you are claiming it. My problem is with the game being decided pre 10 minutes. Most Ranked games in Plat or higher are between 15 - 25 minutes. When 1/3 of my ranked literally end at the 15 minute mark that's a massive problem. I wasn't arguing that the changes I was proposing were going to help top lane carry potential in fact I was stating that unfortunately it would be the opposite so it seems from what you're saying you seem to think what I'm proposing is a good idea. As for assassins I have no idea what you're getting at implying I haven't seen assassins from earlier seasons but yes as I stated earlier I've both played more, achieved more and played longer than you have so I think I know it pretty well. Yes Assassins couldn't kill tanks back in season 4. No that's not the reason tanks were picked, tanks were picked because overall the class was needed for team comps due to its overall strength in allowing the very common from to back teamfight comps to be successful. Yes assassins can kill tanks now and no that's not a good thing that assassins no longer have any form of a counter. Supports have been able to carry as early as season 2. Madlife easily proved that by solo carrying Azubu Frost through multiple tournaments in season 2. Support has gotten stronger and stronger since season 6 and is now by far the most overpowered role in the game given that if one support is far better than the other it's ridiculously hard to do anything about it and botlane pretty much collapses. You literally said it yourself "one Role shouldn't be punished so others feel like they are stronger." Then why is every other role especially ADC getting punished to make supports feel like they are the most important people in the game? Botlane is pretty much entirely decided by the support right now. Vision control is still mostly decided by support. Supports get the option to go whatever the hell they want in terms of damage, peel, engage, tank and they even outscale other roles now. As I stated multiple times. Claiming that these changes will some how make there be 0 carry potential or that the game will go to 60 minute games if turret plating gets removed is frankly idiotic. You're basically saying that no player has ever been able to carry before season 9 and that every game before season 9 was a 60 minute game. The game was incredible in season 4 5 and 6 without turret plating or ridiculous bounties. There's no real reason to keep them in the state that they are.
: The thing is that this season allowed for an individual to carry the game again. Something that what season 8 was seriously lacking. This also resulted into situations where tank champion start to become unpopular again since even if your good & support your teammates is one person on the enemy team is better you will still lose that game. Overal I'm not sure it's a good idea to massively hit the nerf hammer on getting gold since it would just ruin the solo carry experience again.
Solo carry experience for who? Mid? Maybe but Mid has always had a good solo carry experience no matter what season you're playing in. Top perhaps and maybe the most justified to improving the carry experience. Jungle? Again jungle has had a good solo carry experience most seasons same as Mid although not to the same level of supremacy. Support is probably the biggest benefactor of this but that's the problem with support being massively overpowered in terms of being able to carry right now that it steps of the toes of other roles. By all means support probably benefits the most from this but support needs nerfing due to having far too much control over the game. Bot lane is almost entirely decided by which support is better with ADC having little to no agency on that as well as the fact that the game never even goes long enough for ADC to have an impact and even if it does you don't outscale anyone anymore because every champion can one shot. We didn't need the game to be in this ridiculous state for solo players to carry. We've had it in the past in seasons like 5 6 and 7. The only difference is now you don't need to actually be good at the game to solo carry anymore. Just pick an assassin go mid press all your buttons and if you win lvl 3 great grab some turret plates and you're now 800 gold ahead of everyone else in the game 5 minutes in. Just look at AP malphite, lock him in press R 20 times and hes your best chance of solo carrying the game right now. It's solo carry based on picking the right role and the right champion not based on individual skill. So yeah I would much rather have a game state with a little less 1v9 headbutt the keyboard champions and a little more nuance with actual skill.
: > [{quoted}](name=Just Chrissy,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=N1bFYLAl,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-13T17:47:42.417+0000) > > First off I have to say I don't really mean this as an insult but if you're stuck in iron after 100 games I don't think you're really an authority to talk about player skill. > You think wrong. When i see an high elo game and one of the player feeds like s@@t in the first minutes becomes he keep doing stupid errors and possibly start even to flame about that, i have all the rights to think that player is very low skilled, or at the very least, has very little control over himself. > Secondly all you're describing is derogatory terms for the gaming having a more back an forth nature. Personally I enjoy actually playing league of legends. I don't enjoy more queues, more loading screens and the games being decided 3 minutes into the game and spending 10 minutes waiting for it to be over or for the fed person to die. > > I prefer when a game is not decided by tiny mechanical errors early on in the game made in laning phase. I prefer when teams have the opportunity to actually make plays and see the nuance of the game. If all you're experiencing is 45 minute clown fiestas guess what, that's because you're in iron mate. I enjoy playing long games when i realize both team are on equal footing when it comes to skill, and REAL back and forth therefore happens. When it's clear they are not, it's useless to give the winning team an harder time. You are not offering a more fair game, you are giving random babysitting, which is bad. Ah, and stay assured you don't look like THAT much more like a smarta@@ only because you go check the rank of players here and talk about that. You know those flamers who write an insult every three words and can barely write english and use punctation in the process? Even these kind can do that.
When you watch players? Exactly that when you watch. You've never achieved that you've never even been above silver. You don't have an indepth understanding of the game otherwise you just wouldn't be iron. I'm sorry but even the tiniest level of skill of game knowledge is enough to get you out of iron. There is no harder time winning the game. If you are a better team you will win the game quickly and easily regardless but that's not always the case. What happens right now is the team that got first blood snowballs the game out of control and occasionally throws it due to the ridiculous amount of bounties. Simply put if a team is better, they will win easily. If they are not better which is 99% of the time there will be a back and forth deserving of that equal skill. Right now that doesn't exist because it doesn't matter what your skill level was all that matters is who made the first mistake. Of course I pointed out your lack of skill in a discussion about the impact of the skill. Do you think the manhatten project allowed people who passed high school physics to work on the creation of the atomic bomb? No you don't let novices discuss and influence something that requires experience and skill.
KmSneaky (EUW)
: Add 2 second cooldown to every spell in the game and 10 second to every ultimate in the game (+1 additional second for every manaless champion in the game), reduce every champion's damage by 30% at least, make the rune system come back, fix broken reworks and overloaded kits ... remove the tower plate system, remove true damage based on maximum HP, make tenacity affect bumps and turn it up to 35% on boots, fix the broken hitboxes for spells and turrets, fix the rigged matchmaking and then we'll talk about making the game enjoyable again ._. Edit: in short, bring back the possibility to outplay without it being simple math due to unavoidable excess of damage and cc in 2v1 situations
While I definitely agree with the sentiment I'm not sure those exact changes are going to achieve that outcome but yeah bringing back outplays and removing the ridiculous excess of damage in the game is a good start.
: > [{quoted}](name=Just Chrissy,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=N1bFYLAl,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-10-13T17:23:19.377+0000) > > I don't know about you but my experience in Diamond is far different to what you're describing. Most of the feeding comes from jungle attention and players getting too far ahead. And you call that "far different"? You seem to imply that feeding has nothing to do with skill, while i believe it does. Feeding is not something that happens because it's inevitable, it's something that happens particularly often when one sucks, you know. >Slowing down the game gives teams more opportunities to actually play the game rather than it being decided in the first 10 minutes. So if someone doesn't know how to play and is therefore feeding, you give him 10-20 minutes (during which the team who is ahead can't win) hoping he will suddenly learn and enjoy a comeback for some reason. Well, i don't think this would work most of the time. All we would have are more clown fiestas that last 45+ minutes because both teams are chasing for kills and making stupid plays (and this kinda of games tend to happen even now, so we definetely don't need more).
First off I have to say I don't really mean this as an insult but if you're stuck in iron after 100 games I don't think you're really an authority to talk about player skill. Secondly all you're describing is derogatory terms for the gaming having a more back an forth nature. Personally I enjoy actually playing league of legends. I don't enjoy more queues, more loading screens and the games being decided 3 minutes into the game and spending 10 minutes waiting for it to be over or for the fed person to die. I prefer when a game is not decided by tiny mechanical errors early on in the game made in laning phase. I prefer when teams have the opportunity to actually make plays and see the nuance of the game. If all you're experiencing is 45 minute clown fiestas guess what, that's because you're in iron mate.
: Making the game slower is useless when even in Diamonds you can find players feeding 5+ kills in the first 10 minutes. All RioT would accomplish by cutting gold is make evert game last 10-15 more minutes during which the losing team keeps losing and the winning team keeps winning until they are fed enough to break throught the base and end.
I don't know about you but my experience in Diamond is far different to what you're describing. Most of the feeding comes from jungle attention and players getting too far ahead. Slowing down the game gives teams more opportunities to actually play the game rather than it being decided in the first 10 minutes.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Carrimi (EUW)
: You're actually both wrong. Macro and Micro are two ways to climb. Neither is superior to the other. Every single challenger player has deep understanding of both. Some grandmaster players have slightly poor micro or slightly poor macro but are definitely extremely polished on one of the two. If you ignore one element, you will ignore others. Micro appears more innate talent, while Macro appears more learned knowledge but actually both require innate talent to fully pull off. Dopa is a Macro genius, his actual brain wiring and memory allow him to comprehend Macro in a way nearly no other player in entire LoL history can. This is why he hit Rank 1 so often in the most competitive server in LoL and on top of that could boost people, smurf on other accounts etc. He'd usually have 3 accounts in Diamond on top of his Challenger one, just to quickly switch when/if the admins caught on and banned him. Faker, Bjergsen and Perkz are Mechanical geniuses. Their brain wiring and memory allows them to create avenues of gameplay in high-risk scenarios, that very few humans could perceive. In fact, it is the very lack of perception in the enemy that enables them to truly capitalise on this. Macro is a purer form of genius, because Macro ingenuity is still shown regardless of the enemy having it as well. Macro is like chess, whereas Micro is like poker.
Don't think you fully read what I've said. I didn't say it was only mechanics or only game knowledge that challenger players have and the individuals you're mentioning have nothing to do with the conversation we were having. Our conversation was about going from low elo to high elo and high elo players improving in areas they struggle with in relation to smurfing. I even said most people I know agree that overall it's more of a 50/50 split to get to high elo however climbing in low elo is more effected by mechanical skill.
Rioter Comments
Infinitty (EUW)
: Doesn't matter... keep your ideas, I'll keep mine I'm climbing slowly, but climbing with my 1 average game per day :D
Given that you used to be higher than you currently are I'm not sure you understand what climbing is.
Infinitty (EUW)
: Well you're wrong about not being mechanical skilled players in silver (don't know why you assume the KDA was given to them and they ware not able to acquire by their skills), and yes there are also challenger players without being mechanical gifted, there is a very good mid lanner witch I don't remember his name now... and yes I play ranked to improve.... not to be stomped by a player that shouldn't be even playing in my games... being stomped by smurfs won't make you a better player... If I want to play vs better players than me I play normal or customs with them... if ranked games ware meant to be played by different skill / rank levels there would be no need for a matchmaking system... But well it's my generation that made the smurfs in the first place back in the 90's in Warcraft 2, the reason for this name smurfing it's because of 2 very good players fake their identities with "papasmurf" and "smurfette" witch are characters from the smurfs cartoons...
Well thanks for that history lesson that no one asked for. No anyone from plat or above knows that Silver and below the skill levels are so abominably bad that if you just learn to farm correctly, get the skills to pull off good trades in lane and not int in teamfights and you'll climb to gold in less than 100 games. Just look at how LS reacted to someone claiming they were stuck in Silver because of bad luck and team mates. He burst out laughing and told it as it is. Silver and below the skill level is so bad that there is no reason to be there unless you truly belong there because getting better at the game allows you to exploit the lack in skill in every other player. As for a challenger player with bad mechanics by all means find that person tell me their tag and I'll watch their games and happily explain to you why you're wrong. I don't know why I've gone this far to be honest. Of course you're silver yourself so you're going to go to any lengths to claim it's all complicated to climb ranks. You're not an authority to speak on matters of something you've never done or even come close to doing.
Infinitty (EUW)
: There are silver players with high mechanical skill unable to climb because no macro, lack of knowledge on how to close the game for example (also know as the players with 20-0 kda but still lose the game)... as there are challanger players with low mechanics because they have a very good macro... By the way, got matched vs a guy called Wholesome Shaco, fresh lvl 30, mostly only playing shaco (75% win rate) literally that guy just stomp every single lane.... the irony of "smurfing for learning purposes" Well yes he deserved to win that game, but we also didn't deserve to be matched vs that guy.... matchmaking is to make competitive fair matches, but smurfs ruin the system by making the games look like a stomp fiesta
There are no silver players with high mechanical skill. KDA doesn't mean anything as you can last hit kills that your team is setting up for you play overly safe without reason to stop yourself from dying and do plenty of other things that don't indicate either mechanical skill or game knowledge. There are definitely 0 challenger players with low mechanical skill. There might be players who are more mechanically gifted than other challenger players but you can not get to challenger without mechanical skill that is at least as good as the best mechanically gifted diamond players in your role. If you're playing ranked then you should be playing to improve. Getting a chance to play against someone better than you is the best opportunity to improve.
: no you go here on a rant how they have to pay milions of dollars a day ... they dont have to ... and yes tribunal wasnt perfect ... was for sure better than this bot we have now :)
Well let's see you can either have a version of the tribunal which was a massively flawed. It was mostly policed by players something which created massive inconsistencies where players who deserved bans didn't get them because people who had a high tolerance to something might ignore the abuse in the chat logs. It also accounted for a tiny percentage of the overall punishment system as most of it back then was automated anyway because a player doing a couple tribunals a week can't keep up with the massive load and didn't really work anyway as most of the time you tried to use it, it was busted. How is any of that better than a bot that can actually do it's job with a level of consistency that allows players with experience to know what they are and aren't allowed to say or do without even reading the summoners code. Can address all reports and all punishment cases and doesn't breakdown allowing people to do whatever they want without any punishment.
Infinitty (EUW)
: Professional example is just that, an example... you make your interpretation as you see fit. I could use a game like chess, everyone knows that a professional player would win without a sweet someone newer to that game (because of macro) and don't try to tell me that the game is not knowledge / experience based... I'll not prolong this discussion because we have different perspectives and different life experiences... and I'm not here to judge smurfs as their actions are for those who commit them… I just made my point that I don't think its fair or ethical to do so... I read your way of thinking, I understand and respect your line of thinking, just don't agree with it... you don't have to agree with what I say or my believes. And you're the first person I heard saying macro is not needed to climb in this game... And cmon even me low rank player can learn a champion power spike without the need to play with lower ranks and I'm not gifted, and more I play like in average only 1 game per day (other life priorities)
Well I'm not gonna reply to the rest because there's nothing to reply to but your final statement ignores one massive fact. The very fact that you are in your own words "not gifted" is the very reason why you it is easy for you to learn new things. The standard for your skill level for each champion and the required champion knowledge to play them is lower because no one in silver have that high skill level. Think about it like this if you're going from being a 3/10 on an adc to a 2/10 on a midlaner its not that hard to switch but if you've spent 7 years learning a set of adcs and you switch to learning midlane then you're gonna go from being a 8/10 to being a 5/10. Much bigger difference which would guarantee a lost game and is just not productive for the individual. Edit: I'd also like to add I've just surveyed a number of friends of mine to get their opinions on these things. Just before you make any claims about the results I didn't tell them anything about why I was asking the questions prior to them giving their answers and their skills level ranges from plat 3 to diamond 2. Of 5 people I asked all 5 said it was roughly a 50/50 split between game knowledge and mechanical skill when climbing to diamond 4 however 4/5 of them then went on to say they think mechanical skill is far more important in the lower skill brackets and you can easily climb to platinum with virtually no game knowledge. When asked if they think smurfing can be productive for a high elo players improvement when playing unknown champs 4/5 of them said yes and the 5th said he would rather play normals but would agree that playing a champion you don't know in ranked for the first time wouldn't be recommended. 1 of them did display that they had a distaste towards smurfing while the rest thought it wasn't a problem. It would seem that your friend is a bit of an outlier as most people both think that at best game knowledge makes up for about half of the improvement gap from low to high elo and most think that smurfing is productive for the player.
: I’m a little pissed off... The High Noon skin line
Well they've gotta do something to stop us ADC mains jumping out a window.
: > [{quoted}](name=Just Chrissy,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=r48bd0YV,comment-id=0019,timestamp=2019-09-24T19:44:49.276+0000) > > Hello, Diamond 3 here with 6 accounts. > > First off I wanna address a couple things in your original post. How is it that you know players are smurfing rather than just having a good game? If you check their account and they've got insane winrates then fair enough but if you're just making assumptions or believing them when they say they are then most of the time they probably aren't. > > Secondly no Riot is never going to make smurfing against the rules or ban smurf accounts. It makes them money, so lets be real. Whatever you think about having a bad game and saying "I'm gonna quit because I keep playing against smurfs" that clearly doesn't happen anywhere near as much as people making smurf account and buying skins. > > Onto why I smurf. > > For me the primary reason why I smurf is that it's nice to have an environment where the vast majority of the time everyone in the game wants to win and is trying to win but I don't have to worry nearly as much about the outcome as I would with lp gains and losses on my main. I enjoy playing in a competitive environment without worrying about the impact of every game on my ability to climb. It gives me the chance to try out different champs and see what really works at the time. > > I also smurf in order to duo with lower ranked people and that's probably just as common as the first reason. I would always prefer ranked to normals so if I get the opportunity to duo with someone regardless of rank I'll probably take it. > > I've never been perma banned and technically if someone has been perma banned and made a second account I don't think that's smurfing it's just their new main account. While I have hit walls in the past smurfing has never been a resolution to that problem I usually just play more on my main although the games enjoyment has gone down a lot with changes to the state of the game making ADC far less impactful at higher ranks which sometimes I've gone smurfing because playing in Diamond+ isn't very fun for ADC mains. I can definitely understand the want to play competitively without having to worry about the LP gains and losses all the time. When I'm climbing the ladder the matches I tend to enjoy the most are when I have just been promoted to a new league or division and I know I have the demotion shield active. Do you think it would help to have an option to turn off LP gains and losses. Let's say you just reached Diamond and had no interest in climbing further, but also didn't want to lose your ranking. So you press a button to freeze the LP, meaning you don't gain or lose any LP for wins and losses respectively. Would that be something you would be interested in?
Nah if you turned off lp gains and losses then people would treat it like a normal. As flex has taught us. Attaching the word "ranked" to a queue doesn't make it competitive. Also keep in mind to stop toxic behaviour everyone in the game would have to have frozen lp else you'd just get people freezing their lp and losing games intentionally for others. So it literally just would be a normal game.
Infinitty (EUW)
: Well maybe we have different concepts of what macro is then. Macro for me is not only how you position during the game... it's also how you play some match up, it's wave manipulation and knowing where I want the wave to be at a certain point. It's knowing power spikes. But I'll resume it... macro is all related with game knowledge, micro / mechanics is the way you click with your mouse to get cs at the right time, attack resets, combos witch you learn all of it in the practice tools... where game knowledge is acquired over time by playing the game and understanding what you did wrong an what you could have done better... All of this just to try to justify that smurfing is a cool thing... well lets give you a life example, I'm a senior software developer, I work with artificial intelligence, augmented reality technology and biometrics... so in if I could give it a rank I would say I'm Challenger... would it be fair to compete with a developer that is still studding at university? No, because my knowledge and experience far surpass the student even if he is good at coding So to deal with smurfs in games disrupts the natural evolution of lower elo players, not because we can't learn something new about it... but because it makes that match unfair and not fun (except for the smurf) to play that match. And if the match is not fun to start with that said lower elo player will actually not learn anything new (also because he does not have yet the required knowledge to identify something he did as a mistake) Imagine a lake calm and peaceful, then you trow a rock... you might say the only consequence is that there will be ripples in the water... while in fact there are other things your're doing, you just don't realize because you don't think of it...
That's a lot of metaphoric analogies without a single in game example to back it up. Comparing a general profession to a competitive game just doesn't work. You don't directly compete with others on an individual basis in the vast majority of professions so making the comparison is a bit ridiculous and the analogy at the end I just don't know what I'm reading there it looks like an attempt at a haiku. As for your statement about this trying to be our universal justification for smurfing let's be real here. No ones trying to justify it. We don't care whether you believe the truth or choose not to but we're not on trial here. Riot is not and never has directly combated smurfing and likely never will. It makes them money, lots of money. People who smurf are likely the individuals who spend the most time on the game and spend the most money. Having more accounts to buy your favourite skins on makes Riot a happy company. So no us telling you that we smurf because it helps us learn things we don't yet know isn't a justification however your ridiculous claim that smurfing doesn't help people in any way learn new things does make you seem like your trying to hide an unhealthy jealousy and hatred for those who've styled on you a couple of times. As for that claim in of itself let's dissect that shall we. So what you've substituted for your original claim of Macro is actually game knowledge and I assume you're not going to half way through a discussion change your original claim about it being un-learnable while smurfing just because we changed the name, good? Ok then. You cited in your original comment that some of these skills that make the difference that you claimed to be game knowledge are, wave manipulation, power spikes and knowing where you want the wave. First off the most obvious one. How can a Diamond player magically transfer his knowledge of power spikes from a champion he does know to one he does not...when they have different power spikes? "Zed becomes strong at his first item why doesn't twitch". "Gangplanks abilities get really good at level 13 why doesn't Nami's" Etc. Secondly where you want the wave. If you haven't had the time to see what a champion does and more specifically how you combo your abilities together in order to do it and how effective that is against different champions then how can you transfer this knowledge from known champions to unknowns. Going back to ADCs if you know Twitch then you want the wave just outside of your turret range so you can farm safely from range. Xayah or Jhin you want the wave in the middle of lane and even so you can fight the enemy laners as much as possible and for Caitlyn you want it at their turret so you can take plates and harass with your extraordinary range. These are three different examples from the same class of champions and you need time with a champion to learn your strengths and weaknesses to decide what you wanna do with your wave management skills. Wave manipulation is really just the same as the last wave management with the added skills of knowing how your champion can do that which again comes from experience of knowing that champion. All of these things (which you chose) require extra time to learn and bring up to a similar level to what your known champion pool is at. So I'll repeat what I said earlier. If you don't wanna believe people when they tell you the truth about why they smurf because you painting them in as evil of a light as possible to justify your own rather sad obsession then that's down to you. Believe the truth of don't but when you try to argue your points it just seems sad.
: > [{quoted}](name=JokeroffHell33,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=r48bd0YV,comment-id=00120000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-24T14:40:21.836+0000) > > we had tribunal before ...
Yes we had a very flawed system that Riot chose to get rid of for good reason. Does that change any of the facts and figures that I have already presented?
Infinitty (EUW)
: Well actually friends I have above Diamond ranks, including someone that sometimes helps me identifying what I do bad or I need to improve tell me... Macro is all it takes to win the game, its the decisions you make that will win or lose the game... Mechanics will only make a difference in higher ranks where all players are already good at macro... So you climb to Diamond just with Macro. Not that a mechanical player can't climb... it will be just harder compared to a macro player
Then it seems either you and your friend do not understand the definition of the word Macro or your friend does not understand how it is he got to Diamond. If you're an ADC standing in front of your team mates you're going to lose the game. If you're a skillshot champion and you can't hit any of your skillshots then you're going to lose the game. If you're 50 CS down at 10 minutes because you can't CS or get out pressured in lane due to a lack of mechanical skill then you're going to lose the game. If you try to fight 1v1 and split-push to victory but you don't have the skill to win a 1v1 despite being ahead then you're going to lose the game. You can be in the right place at the right time it doesn't matter if you don't have the mechanical skills for it. Mechanics become less important than overall knowledge at the Diamond level because most people at that level have gotten there due to mechanics and therefore have that skill so it becomes less important than game knowledge but then again game knowledge still isn't the same as Macro which is team based play.
N3o7h30ne (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Shamose,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=8nopAv11,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-24T16:03:10.902+0000) > > Low CS for a 45 min game. > > Shoot for 100 CS per 10 minutes. 100 cs per 10 mins seems to be impossible with xayah in the early game :(
Xayah is definitely one of the easier champs to get CS with in the earlier game you have waveclear to collect entire waves your Q and E can be used to collect CS that is dangerous to auto attack and your laning phase is one of the stronger ones for ADC meaning you can fight people who try to stop you from csing.
Infinitty (EUW)
: still is the same wallet :D so they will win the same amount of money :D if you only have 1 account
No because I'm not gonna buy skins for champions I don't play just because I have spare money but I will buy two sets of the same skins for champs I do play over two accounts.
: it doesent have to be ONE dude ... not even ONE bot ... we had tribunal before ... was it perfect ? no ... deffinitely better than this screwup that only punishes "bad words" ... like there are any bad words ... there are only words no bad ones or good ones just words ... and you can mute a person ... you cant stop someone from running it down for sport cause there is no punishement for that ...
It's not physically possible for them to have a human system to check reports or bans. Over 10 million games get played daily and how often do you see a game where at least 1 person doesn't get report each game? It's pretty damn rare as reporting is peoples go to for making themselves feel better about a loss. Let's be conservative though and say they get 5 million reports a day. How long do you think it would take for someone to evaluate the validity of the report? 5 minutes? 15 minutes? let's say 5. That means they can evaluate 12 reports an hour. Assuming they have an normal work day of about 8 hours that's 96 reports a day. For our forecast of 5 million reports a day that means they need to employ an extra 52,083. Let's round that number down to 52,000 and assume they're working for minimum wage. At $7.25 an hour this new workforce would cost the company an extra $3,016,000. 3 Million dollars...a day...an extra 780 million dollars a year assuming they get paid minimum wage which they probably wouldn't. Keep in mind pretty much all of these estimates were very conservative. 5 Million is nowhere near as many reports as they realistically get each day. Minimum wage is not realistically what the employees would be paid. 5 minutes to evaluate a report is probably not enough time for each report. No it's just not realistic even if you only wanted to evaluate the reports that the system came back with punishments for that wouldn't fix the problem and would still cost hundreds of millions a year.
Infinitty (EUW)
: Looks unfair, they have better macro, and macro its all you need to win the game.... but they need to go for a lower elo to feed their ego because they can't win in thier own elo. That BS that they want to lear a new champ... mechanics they say, it's all a lie, you don't need mechanics to win a game, only macro and decision making.... On the other end it feels so good when you slap them in the face... and you can always learn something new.... But overall smurfing is not healthy to the game, a match with a smurf its already unbalanced and decreases drastically the chances of the team without a smurf to win that game, and guess what, maybe he was in promos and the smurf takes that needed win out of him... maybe that other player can demote if he loses this next game and there he is a smurf making sure that happens.... Or you are playing the game and then sudently someone on your team is stomping and making very good game decisions, taking the fun away and disrupting the natural process of learning the game....
I have to be honest the idea that it's all macro couldn't be further from the truth. You're silver and I imagine you experience people smurfing in your games from time to time which has left you a little bit bitter about it to the point at which you're trying to best to create an image of smurfing that paints the individuals who choose to smurf in the worst way possible. Macro really has nothing at all to do with soloq. Macro is your teams ability to position yourselves around the map in such a way that always puts your opponent at a disadvantage. If you've ever played soloq you'd know that you have literally no control over what your team decides to do. You can be positioned perfectly the entire game always in the right place to do the thing that your team needs of you to have the best possible chance to win but if your team doesn't do the same then it's pointless. Mechanical skill makes up about 90% of the difference between elo brackets. Smurfs win games so easily because they win fights that they shouldn't because their opponents make mistakes that a normal player in that elo wouldn't usually capitalise on such as missing skillshots, bad teamfight positioning or taking fights they don't realise they shouldn't win. There is no Macro in soloq you just hope your team has the right idea of what to do. As for not believing that people play on smurfs in order to play other champions. Well just look at a smurfs main account and their smurf accounts you'll usually see different champions being played unless than smurf intends of climbing as high as possible at which point they'll play their main champs in order to win as much as possible.
: Why do you smurf?
Hello, Diamond 3 here with 6 accounts. First off I wanna address a couple things in your original post. How is it that you know players are smurfing rather than just having a good game? If you check their account and they've got insane winrates then fair enough but if you're just making assumptions or believing them when they say they are then most of the time they probably aren't. Secondly no Riot is never going to make smurfing against the rules or ban smurf accounts. It makes them money, so lets be real. Whatever you think about having a bad game and saying "I'm gonna quit because I keep playing against smurfs" that clearly doesn't happen anywhere near as much as people making smurf account and buying skins. Onto why I smurf. For me the primary reason why I smurf is that it's nice to have an environment where the vast majority of the time everyone in the game wants to win and is trying to win but I don't have to worry nearly as much about the outcome as I would with lp gains and losses on my main. I enjoy playing in a competitive environment without worrying about the impact of every game on my ability to climb. It gives me the chance to try out different champs and see what really works at the time. I also smurf in order to duo with lower ranked people and that's probably just as common as the first reason. I would always prefer ranked to normals so if I get the opportunity to duo with someone regardless of rank I'll probably take it. I've never been perma banned and technically if someone has been perma banned and made a second account I don't think that's smurfing it's just their new main account. While I have hit walls in the past smurfing has never been a resolution to that problem I usually just play more on my main although the games enjoyment has gone down a lot with changes to the state of the game making ADC far less impactful at higher ranks which sometimes I've gone smurfing because playing in Diamond+ isn't very fun for ADC mains.
Tjenias (EUW)
: Skin idea for getting 1.000.000 mastery points on a champ
lovely idea not gonna happen. Riot makes no money for it and they have to make 140 plus skins which is more than they make in 2 years.
: Ok quite simply you are pulling up stats that are relevant and do have significance however you are attributing to these stats your own unproven and illogical hypothesis. You claim that a win-rates significance is dependent on the champions play-rate because of a player-base of dedicated players that skew champions win-rate due to being much more experienced than the average player-base of more played champions and because of this Kai'sa is the "strongest" ADC in the game due to her having the highest play-rate in the game. As a side note just to clarify you claimed she had a 50% play-rate when that is untrue. She actually has a 30% play-rate. There's two ways we can disprove this. We can show that the stats of other champions do not agree with your hypothesis and we can also show that the mathematical logic has no basis in reality as well. I'm going to do both just for consistency. Firstly let's look at the stats. Simply put from the examples I gave in my previous post we can see that there are plenty of examples of high pick and high win-rate champions and low pick-rate low win-rate champions. In fact if you actually go and look at all champions it actually points to the opposite of what you claim. High play-rate champions are more likely to have a high win-rate and low play-rate champions are more likely to have a low win-rate. It's almost as if players like playing champions that win them games! *Surprised Pikachu*. From this it's easy to conclude that just because a champion has a high play-rate doesn't mean their win-rate is somehow stunted below what it could be and that the claim that if only Kai'sa had a 20% play-rate instead of 30% she would have a much higher win-rate than Jinx is complete bull. There is one stat I found which I would like to add in which much more simply than all of this disproves your claims. If you look at the full patch of 9.17 for Latin America North stats for both Jinx and Kai'sa. They play both of these champions in equal measure. They both around a 23%-24% play-rate for 9.17. Yet Jinx is almost 5% higher than Kai'sa in win-rate for that patch which is very similar to the world wide average win-rate for both these champions and I'd also like to point on Caitlyn in the past has had a 35%-40% play-rate with a 51% win-rate which is far better than Kai'sa. Now you've already been proven wrong by the real world statistics available to us showing that Kai'sa isn't the best ADC ever. Let's just do that one more time by looking at mathematical and logical problem with your claims just in case you wanna claim those statistics about other champions are incorrect. If what you claimed about champions having a dedicated player-base of one tricks and experienced players then this can take place in 2 forms. The first of which is that when a champion is played more the amount of people who one trick the champion and have a higher skill level on that champion is proportional and because of this their win rate is entirely unaffected by their play-rate because they always have the same percentage of players of that higher skill level playing her. The other scenario (and what most people seem to believe) is that it is not proportional and that the amount of dedicated one tricks is a flat and steady number of players that is relatively unchanged by having a larger overall player-base. If this is true then simple maths teaches us that as a play-rate increase the less that increase in play-rate will change the overall win-rate. This would mean going from a 1% to a 2% play-rate would make a massive difference and 2% to 4% would make half as much of a difference and so on as we scale up. Now since again other ADCs have pick-rates close to Kai'sa with much higher win-rates we can conclude that she is no where near the strongest ADC. There you go. Proven wrong in 2 completely different ways :)
> [{quoted}](name=Sir Prepuzius,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=YnJzerez,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-12T13:54:26.762+0000) > yeah you did that..imagine how impressed i would be now if you had proven me wrong in 3 different ways :) Probably could have but don't have the time or patience for it.
: ok then since i'm apparently unable to read and understand properly would you please be so kind to explain to me again why statistics about winrate & pickrate are meaningless thank you
Ok quite simply you are pulling up stats that are relevant and do have significance however you are attributing to these stats your own unproven and illogical hypothesis. You claim that a win-rates significance is dependent on the champions play-rate because of a player-base of dedicated players that skew champions win-rate due to being much more experienced than the average player-base of more played champions and because of this Kai'sa is the "strongest" ADC in the game due to her having the highest play-rate in the game. As a side note just to clarify you claimed she had a 50% play-rate when that is untrue. She actually has a 30% play-rate. There's two ways we can disprove this. We can show that the stats of other champions do not agree with your hypothesis and we can also show that the mathematical logic has no basis in reality as well. I'm going to do both just for consistency. Firstly let's look at the stats. Simply put from the examples I gave in my previous post we can see that there are plenty of examples of high pick and high win-rate champions and low pick-rate low win-rate champions. In fact if you actually go and look at all champions it actually points to the opposite of what you claim. High play-rate champions are more likely to have a high win-rate and low play-rate champions are more likely to have a low win-rate. It's almost as if players like playing champions that win them games! *Surprised Pikachu*. From this it's easy to conclude that just because a champion has a high play-rate doesn't mean their win-rate is somehow stunted below what it could be and that the claim that if only Kai'sa had a 20% play-rate instead of 30% she would have a much higher win-rate than Jinx is complete bull. There is one stat I found which I would like to add in which much more simply than all of this disproves your claims. If you look at the full patch of 9.17 for Latin America North stats for both Jinx and Kai'sa. They play both of these champions in equal measure. They both around a 23%-24% play-rate for 9.17. Yet Jinx is almost 5% higher than Kai'sa in win-rate for that patch which is very similar to the world wide average win-rate for both these champions and I'd also like to point on Caitlyn in the past has had a 35%-40% play-rate with a 51% win-rate which is far better than Kai'sa. Now you've already been proven wrong by the real world statistics available to us showing that Kai'sa isn't the best ADC ever. Let's just do that one more time by looking at mathematical and logical problem with your claims just in case you wanna claim those statistics about other champions are incorrect. If what you claimed about champions having a dedicated player-base of one tricks and experienced players then this can take place in 2 forms. The first of which is that when a champion is played more the amount of people who one trick the champion and have a higher skill level on that champion is proportional and because of this their win rate is entirely unaffected by their play-rate because they always have the same percentage of players of that higher skill level playing her. The other scenario (and what most people seem to believe) is that it is not proportional and that the amount of dedicated one tricks is a flat and steady number of players that is relatively unchanged by having a larger overall player-base. If this is true then simple maths teaches us that as a play-rate increase the less that increase in play-rate will change the overall win-rate. This would mean going from a 1% to a 2% play-rate would make a massive difference and 2% to 4% would make half as much of a difference and so on as we scale up. Now since again other ADCs have pick-rates close to Kai'sa with much higher win-rates we can conclude that she is no where near the strongest ADC. There you go. Proven wrong in 2 completely different ways :)
: yeah, %%%% maths, bunch of meaningless numbers, right?
Who said anything about maths? Reading a number isn't maths? Again, go back and actually read what I wrote you might actually gain some insight rather than sticking to what you've argued just to protect your ego.
: actually i don't understand what are you contesting all i'm saying is high pickrate high winrate => meaningful low pickrate high winrate => not so meaningful
Yeah and if you properly read my prior message you'd see they're both equally meaningless.
: >Also I couldn't help myself but look up your account because of your original story. You made this thread after playing what I can see 2 games of Kai'sa. So basically you played a couple games went "errrmahgerrr she op" and made a thread about it. yeah i played only 2 games with her at the time and i wrote my impressions, i wrote it not to complain but just to open a discussion about it, even with opposite points of view compared to mine, i have no problem in being proven wrong actually i do that everytime i play a new champ >low pick rate meaning higher winrates due to the player base being made from dedicated players only there is no real evidence to support this the evidence is the fact that there are few people playing the champ. if only 3 people out of 1000 play champion xyz i call them people "dedicated mains" (not otp as you mention often) because despite the fact that their champion isn't meta they still are playing him. and i never stated that low pick rate means higher winrate, i just formulated an hyphotesis about a low pickrate/high winrate champion trying to explain the concept that while winrate alone might not mean much, winrate AND pickrate AND banrate togheter are the criteria on which a champion is evaluated balance wise
And that hypothesis is proven wrong by all the realistic statistics that are available to us to it's not worth sharing and not relevant to the argument that Kai'sa is the "strongest" adc.
Antenora (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Just Chrissy,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=YnJzerez,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-09-05T17:19:14.511+0000) > > Jinx has been at a 53% winrate for at least 3 months with a 20%+ pickrate. Just saying she has a high pickrate means nothing. Jinx is overtuned, she can be fixed with some nerfs. Kai'Sa isn't overtuned, she's overloaded. She's the ADC version of Thresh, does too much too well.
So? It's not like her being "overloaded" in your eyes means that she's winning more games or impossible to play against. A champion that you call overloaded but doesn't actually win more games than any other champion on average is far less of a problem than a champion that is "overtuned" and making it hard to justify picking anything else.
: actually, high pick rate with decent winrate means a lot despite half of the adc population is picking her they manage to win half the games, it's huge, with such an high pickrate winrate is supposed to fall off bad for instance let's assume there is a champion with 75% winrate if his pickrate is 0.0001% let's not cry for nerfs yet, it just means only a handful of dedicated mains wins with it, and not that is op now the champions gets reworked, a lot of players play it and his pickrate rises up to 20%. at this point it's only natural that his winrate drops off since a lot more players are playing him depending on how much his winrate drops, we can call it balanced or not 49% winrate and 49% pickrate is not balanced in my book, simply put it means half of the adc population can play her and win half the games, without necessarily having experience with the champion itself
First off she doesn't have a 49% pick rate she has a 30% pickrate which again is only 10% higher than Jinx while Jinx has an enormous winrate of 53% which she has maintained for at least 4 patches but if I remember correctly its a hell of a lot longer than that. As for your hypothesis about low pick rate meaning higher winrates due to the player base being made from dedicated players only there is no real evidence to support this happens in any major volume. In fact when you actually look at the real evidence not just the random thoughts people come up with to explain things you see almost the opposite occur. Anything above a 5% playrate means a champion is seeing hundreds of thousands of games every single patch and if you actually look at the profiles of most of the players you play with people who genuinely one trick champions are play most on their games on a single champion make up a tiny percentage of the playerbase and usually don't have that high winrate on these champions if they do have 100+ games on their main champions and more importantly even if this theory about super experienced players were true (which it isn't) there's no reason to believe that going from a 10% playrate to a 30% playrate would have anywhere near the same effect as going from a 0.1% playrate to a 10% playrate because any level of basic mathematics is gonna tell you that while you scale up the number of players either the one tricks will scale up with it and therefore the playrate means nothing or the one tricks stay a small group that doesn't increase with playrate and therefore the more you scale up the less they matter so after you reach a certain point scaling up further won't make a difference. That's basic mathematics and doesn't need any kind of league knowledge to figure out. I could stop there but lets just take a quick look at real evidence something you don't seem to have done even with your Kai'sa example given the playrate you provided for her was incorrect. Nunu 5% pickrate 54% winrate, Janna 10% pickrate 53.5 winrate, Jinx 20% pickrate 53% winrate, Nami 12% pickrate 52% winrate, Kha Zix 13% pickrate 52% winrate. On the other end the supposed 1 tricks that are destroying the with their champions that no one else playes. Tahm Kench 0.5 pick rate 47% winrate, Viktor 1.6% pickrate 48% winrate, Trundle 0.9 pickrate and 49% winrate. While I've pretty substantially proven this wrong just a quick side note about champions being reworked or released. Yeah of course they're gonna have a high playerate and low winrate. No one knows how to play them yet and people like to try them because they're new. That has nothing to do with the winrates and playrates of established champions. Also I couldn't help myself but look up your account because of your original story. You made this thread after playing what I can see 2 games of Kai'sa. So basically you played a couple games went "errrmahgerrr she op" and made a thread about it.
Zineus (EUNE)
: so you wanna say 49.36% win rate with 43.59% pick rate is fine?.. she has too much to her kit. both ad and ap scaling..
Jinx has been at a 53% winrate for at least 3 months with a 20%+ pickrate. Just saying she has a high pickrate means nothing.
: kai'sa strongest adc ever
Eh not really. Just coz she has a lot in her kit doesn't make her inherently better than other adcs. She wins just about as much as any other adc sitting pretty at a 50% winrate since release.
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Just Chrissy

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