Perilum (EUW)
: We must play two different games I guess. It's not like these items are specific used for busting tanks. As I said, I give up with you. Good luck with your Blinders.
cmon dude you barely got your ass out of bronze sitting in silver 5 with neggative winrate% no wonder you keep suggesting wierd ass build for me to run, i dont want to sound like a dick but you can get away with building pretty much aynthing on your ello and still win simply cuz people there wont punish you
Perilum (EUW)
: We must play two different games I guess. It's not like these items are specific used for busting tanks. As I said, I give up with you. Good luck with your Blinders.
yea i guess we do play different games, realy didnt wanna bring rank into this but since you are gold and iam high diamond the games we play are most likely wery different
Fajerk (EUW)
: They will make tank update they said that, but how much they will change, that is the real question. Tbh I would not mind if they nerfed some tanks dmg and gave them cc instead, or if they actually added item that increases CC duration, or new % armor/magic resist/hp items. Or more items that would allow tank to absorb dmg taken by teammates, maybe even AOE one, or AOE cc item, maybe some kind of revive item for tanks etc. Possibilities there always are.
yea i feel like this should be the way to go, like if i want to ignore the tank and go pas him he will cc me and i will be vulnarable to his teammates not that he alone will kill me with full tank build and frozen gauntlet max
Perilum (EUW)
: {{item:3071}} {{item:3022}}
yes so i have no ats/no crit/a little dmg and in return some hp and abit of arm pene...have you ever seen how is somehting like irelia trying to kill full tank maokai? it takes her forver because she doesnt build to kill him she builds to kill squishies, adc on the other hand build high sustained dmg to do as much dmg as possible over time thats why they can actually kill tanks in lategame, and thast becasue adcs will be facing tanks and irlia will be facing enemy mid/adc so she builds to kill them while adc builds to kill teh tank, i can tell you that lets say caitlyn with maller/black cleaver will never kill maokai, she will not die to maokai true, but she wont kill him cuz he will be healing more during the fight than what she deals to him
Fajerk (EUW)
: Game mechanics changes are big things since you need to reevaluate whole champion pool + you need to actually change game code, which is very time consuming and expensive as any mistake will break the game on this field. Such change would take about year at least.
they made midseason mage update after like 3-4 months of season 6 and it werent really small changes either so maybe they can make midseason tank/bruiser update or soemthing
Perilum (EUW)
: You compare ADCs to different champions in different roles. Beside you don't even take a minute to think about the items, how you build them and how they're useful to you. I give up with you. You don't want to adapt and work on yourself. You just want to whine.
no i compare the build you are trying to make me build and how will it affect my early/mid/and late and basicly my midgame wont be bad anymore but i stil wont be stronger then irelia lee sin etc because they use these items better than you on adc, and my late game will be now shit because i have this midgame build and the enemy tank is unkillable now and in my face
Perilum (EUW)
: Early IE makes absolutely no sense. You get AD, a irrelevant amount of crit and a passive which is useless until late game. Why would you build that? This item is a scaling item. You build it mid to late game when you already have crit to make use of the passive. Also you don't need a utility item early. You need it mid. You build it after your two core items and boots. Early is all about the trades. There you don't need random crits and sustain damage through attack speed. So you go AD. This is why we all buy the Broadsword first. Mid game it's about the burst and picks. You don't need sustain damage until late game. In my opinion you simply build wrong over the match. How you want to establish dominance, when you build your items only for late game? There are 30-40 min before you have to play as well.
its because if you build the same as those who build for midgame you will still be weaker in midgame and in lategame aswell since they use the hybrid items much better then you, and what woudl you have me build 1/2 items then? nerfed yoomus? balckcleaver when my spells dont scale that well since iam adc, blodthirster for which you still need ats and crit or ALOT of dmg to work properly. so i build your early/mid game build on adc onyl to find out the lee sin and irelia still did aot more with those items and and now i dotn have good lategame anymore isnce i invested in early/mid items and now i cant kill enemy tank whatsoever and we lose
Fajerk (EUW)
: More likely they will not do it because they cannot, it would take too much effort and resources do such changes. But we can always hope they will use the money they got for something important right?
doesnt really take taht mcuh money since the balancing team is working for them already so all they have to do is say "hey guys, this shit is problem so we want you to focus abit more on it insted of tryign to rework ryze for 4th time ok?"
Martinius (EUW)
: i never said assassin champions right now arent played but last season they were pretty much non existent in face of cassio victor syndra etc. Yasuo is more off a fighter with mallet build being the most populat and the ever changing game well riot should have made it a long time ago then cuz since season 1-2 they started pretty much making ad+support botlane like a given 100% way to play the game even as much a you pretty much have dedicated support role to go down bot, and iam not saying that change is bad i dont care if there is ziggs or ashe against me but the way the adc is now is not ok, its like you would take every melee ad champion and slowed them by 20% or soemthing or give everyone else a way to easily deal with them so they would be unable to ever get in range properly and would get kited around, you would basicly push away a huge champion and palyer base and i feel that this is teh change you are talking about and iam not ok with it
basicly i dotn care if there are mages or bruisers running around my botlane just dont keep adc so uselss they wont be able to stay in game since you pretty much forced them in game for 5 years
Hansiman (EUNE)
: > and we havnt seen assasisn for long time Katarina is still played. So is Rengar, Kha'Zix, Ahri, and Fizz. Some sites also classify Yasuo as an assassin, and to some extent he fits that role too. But then: why is it that Marksmen-players are the only ones that won't ever have to adapt to the ever-changing game, and have to have the game change for them?
i never said assassin champions right now arent played but last season they were pretty much non existent in face of cassio victor syndra etc. Yasuo is more off a fighter with mallet build being the most populat and the ever changing game well riot should have made it a long time ago then cuz since season 1-2 they started pretty much making ad+support botlane like a given 100% way to play the game even as much a you pretty much have dedicated support role to go down bot, and iam not saying that change is bad i dont care if there is ziggs or ashe against me but the way the adc is now is not ok, its like you would take every melee ad champion and slowed them by 20% or soemthing or give everyone else a way to easily deal with them so they would be unable to ever get in range properly and would get kited around, you would basicly push away a huge champion and palyer base and i feel that this is teh change you are talking about and iam not ok with it
Adama (EUW)
: Yes, I said that in my comment. Early and mid you are kinda powerless. Do you play Draven? If you can destroy the enemy in lane you will have so much gold you will have 3 items really fast.
i do play draven, you know what is his weakness? being put behind, if you put draven behind he is much worse then average adc being behind since he is all about snowballing. And you know how basicly jungler is lv 6 when you are lv 4. Enemy team will just make sure to shut draven down and you are doign even worse the usual
Fajerk (EUW)
: Anything is possible maybe more items based on base stats so squishy champ stays squishy
i dont think riot will do it tho becasue it would be "meta enforcing" and "restraining of innovation" etc tec.
Hansiman (EUNE)
: I don't want ADC's out of the game, nor do I expect that will ever really happen. I just don't see an issue with a bot lane that's innovated to the point where there's more than just marksman that can be picked for that role. If you main ADC, you can still play ADC's in the bot-lane. You don't **have** to play something else for that role if you don't want. For instance: I don't play AP jungler, so it doesn't matter to me if others do.
yes but current state of adc is so bad that it will end up like last season with assasins in midlane, they were so bad that control mages jsut completely replaced them and we havnt seen assasisn for long time, so if people start palying ziggs and other shit like that bot and adc will stay in their shitty weak ass state why would you even play them? and the will get pushed out off the game with maybe exception of junge graves and top quinn but those are not rly classi botlane adc anymore who adc main play
Perilum (EUW)
: You're not. You just can't build straight every game the same 6 items full damage and think you can get away with it while you push 24/7 your lane down. Oh and maybe you should try the "out of meta" ADCs. Miss Fortune, Tristana, Sivir and Ashe are pretty strong. Maybe new meta? ;) Just try to combine with Leona/Braum and you're good to go to take a dump on all the Jinx, Jhin and Dravens. When I can crush whole games as a ADC noob, then you should do that with ease as a ADC main. And the Frozen Mallet is in the first place there to now die when an assassin or someone else jumps on you. You shouldn't face tank the enemy. Just survive and retreat. Then you can kite with a 30% slow. The item is worth his gold. I usually aim for it as 4th item. And Champs like MF, Tris and Ashe have natural wave clear in their kits. So they don't need hurricane. The problem most ADCs have and struggle with is the mid game. They can't make something out their early game which they won/loss. So they just "exist" mid game and try to scale into late. So you try to fix this problem. And you only need one item for it. So why not go for it? Also ADCs which build full AD and don't rely on the attack speed and crit items seem to be very strong because of their 1-2 hit potential. You just press your attack speed steroid in your kit (MF -> W, Ashe -> Q, Tris -> W) and pump out your damage. Attack speed and crit need prolonged fights, which you most time don't have. It's a new season. Time to adapt to a new environment. It maybe helps to reevaluate tactics and items to the current situation. You wouldn't play season 1 tactics and item builds in season 7. So why would you try to apply season 6 to season 7?
oh dont think i play only IE+2 zeal item adcs, jhin is my 2nd most played, ad i play sivir and ashe abit aswell, and the problem is you cant realy build tanky items into your 1st 3 items you basicly give up even more of your potentinal to carry since you are just gonna run around tickling people with your autos since you have only lets say IE + mallet you wont rly do any dmg, champions like lee, yasuo, riven, irelia they can get tanky item 2nd cuz they have some base dmges but marksmans like cait,ashe etc dont have those base dmg good enough to get away with not building pure dmg
: > [{quoted}](name=MarksMarty,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=UqgVpdeK,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-03T22:54:59.710+0000) > > thats like saying every season is support season cuz supports are played in every competitive game lol, and not true that every adc was played it was mostly jhin/lucian/kalista and thats it, and the resong there was no mundo or rammus was because dmg/tank topalners were better like tank ekko or tank fizz No. Janna wasn't played. Leona wasn't played. Thresh was situational pick. Blitz wasn't played. All adc champions were viable. Yes true. S6 was adc season.
no not all adc :D, urgot wasnt rly played, tristana wasnt rly played, varus moved mid, quinn top, graves jungle, draven was in 2-3 games max, vayne wasnt played, alot of non-meta adc wasnt played jsut like alot of non-meta supports wasnt played, cuz in pro scene they play only whats good
Hansiman (EUNE)
: Greetings. So I honestly don't get what all the fuzz is about. I have to agree with David Turley (Riot Phreak) on the matter when he says: > Some people going crazy about seeing less ADCs and I'm just excited to see innovation in Bot Lane for the first time since 2011 Now consider this: Why is it so bad that we're starting to see something else than an ADC in the bot lane? Bot is the only role that seems to be available for only ADC's. Why is this? Top lane: Tanks, AP damage dealers, AD damage dealers, assassins Jungle: Tanks, AP damage dealers, AD damage dealers, assassins Mid: AP damage dealers, AD damage dealers, assassins Support: Tanks, AP damage dealers, AP based support That list isn't even complete. You can innovate more in these roles. However, for bot, the list is just: Bot: Marksman So why is are the players of that role so afraid of having some form of innovation? Would it be so bad that we don't have a straight up marksman in every game? We can have teams without tanks, even teams without AP damage: but we can't have a team without a marksman?
dont get me wrong i played alot of morde when he was good for botlane, i tried to make kayle+annie bot work back in season 4, the problem is the hwta you are suggesting almost sounds like you want to get adc out of game completely and put ziggses and xeraths into botlane, and since alot of people actually main adc they dont seem really happy about it and iam not either since i like playing ranged ad champions
Fajerk (EUW)
: Well one major problem is that some champs work with tank items that should not, so that could theoretically fix a lot of issues.
yea but that will never be fixed unelss they add soemthing like *weight* on armor so that champions that shouldnt be buying it will have slower movement speed because they arent strong enought to wear it or soemthing xD like yasuo buying randuin would have -5% mvs or whatever
Adama (EUW)
: ADC takes a long time to wind up. There is actually nothing wrong with adc late game if you're good. But yeah early and mid unless you win your lane hard you are kinda powerless...
ofc 6 item adc is fine and basicly if you have peel from your team you can decide game and kill everyone, the problem is games are decided around 25 min when you still dotn even have your 3 core items after which you actually start being good, it takes way too long to scale up to the "good" position from which you can carry when everyone else is strong on 1 item while you need 3 and game is over before you can even get on stage with those 6 items
Fajerk (EUW)
: Yeah tank rework. Soon.
only to fkc things up even more? hell yea iam so ready to switch roles
: > [{quoted}](name=MarksMarty,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=UqgVpdeK,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-01-03T20:54:21.863+0000) > > its been a month into Season 7 nop reaseson anymore, and no season 6 wasnt rly ADC season i remember it more like poppy, tank ekko domination with maybe 1,5 month of jhin/ashe being able to have same impact as mid/jungle before being nerfed. And i cant realy wait if my role is bad when een pro players complain, if it were just low players like me id be like "huh i guess i just suck" but when players like Qtie or Zven complain that adc is in bad spot i think there is something wrong I don't remember Malphite, Dr Mundo, Nautilus, Sejuani, Rammus, Jarvan for S6 but I remember all adc were played in competitive. So S6 was ADC season.
thats like saying every season is support season cuz supports are played in every competitive game lol, and not true that every adc was played it was mostly jhin/lucian/kalista and thats it, and the resong there was no mundo or rammus was because dmg/tank topalners were better like tank ekko or tank fizz
: Most of people would be okay if ADCs were that weak for entire game lel.
yea cuz most people arent playing it, gong back to season 2 jungle when junglers were basicly walking cc with Oracle on them like alistar/nautilus people were complaining so hard that jungle aint good and what do you know? riot buffed it. So it would be abit fair to see the same. One more examlpe people were complaining about assassins being weak and we go assassin update, it took longer that expected but you could still play mages mid or tank/bruisers jungle so there wasnt really a problem but bot you have to play adc pretty much 99% time so ofc people will get upset when adc as role is fcked cuz you will have 20% (dunno exact number) players being uselss till 35+ min in everygame
: S6 was ADC season. Ashe, Sivir, Jhin, Caitlyn, Lucian, Ezreal, Varus, Twitch, Jinx. I almost saw all champions in competitive. We are in preaseason. Wait.
its been a month into Season 7 nop reaseson anymore, and no season 6 wasnt rly ADC season i remember it more like poppy, tank ekko domination with maybe 1,5 month of jhin/ashe being able to have same impact as mid/jungle before being nerfed. And i cant realy wait if my role is bad when een pro players complain, if it were just low players like me id be like "huh i guess i just suck" but when players like Qtie or Zven complain that adc is in bad spot i think there is something wrong
Perilum (EUW)
: Take Wave clear to not get dived. Build one defense item. And there you go mate.
https://clips.twitch.tv/imaqtpie/AdorableWolverineNoNoSpot heres a little something about the point you are making
: yu hev 52% wnirta. kep plyng and yu wil garb teh master tier {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
iam not saying you cant win but comparable to other roles in my games i feel i have much less overall impact if i had to rate it lets say jungle has 10/10 id say adc has at the best 5/10, i know i still have possitiv winrate and winning games but it would be much easier for me to climb if i was jungle or mid main thats why iam asking if riot plans to give some power back to adc or if they juts gave up on the role so i can swap to other role which is more favoured like jungle/mid which are having much more influence
Perilum (EUW)
: {{item:3085}} {{item:3022}}
you know ive already accepted that as adc iam basicly siege cannon minion to push turrets (except tank minion is more tanky than me), but now you want me to be slowing useless shit? sounds about exactly what riot wants adc to be in the future nice job comming up with it
Perilum (EUW)
: Take Wave clear to not get dived. Build one defense item. And there you go mate.
ehm sure in theory that sound good doesnt it? in real game wave clear is good you are right, sadly not that many adcs have it, so you are basicly making the champion pool kinda small -sivir, cait, maybe jinx but everyone else takes too long to clear effectively and tbh jinx and sivir aint doing that great atm. And with the deffensive item its funny how every is like oh just buy deffensive item just build deff etc. etc. but when you do is you do no dmg whatsoever. Since adc scales from items that go together with each other you need those items together to deal dmg (IE + 2x zeal item), you cant compare it to lets say lee sin who scales from both lvs and items so he can afford to buy dead mans plate and still deal alot of dmg, but if i build 3rd item lets say guardian i will be just tickling enemy poppy thats in my face, its already ahrd enough to deal with her when i go full dmg and now slowing my build for deff item will only make it worse. I GET what youre saying that i will stay alive longer etc etc but i lower my chance to do aynthing by alot with this since deffensive item does almost nothing for me except i maybe live for extra 2 seconds in trade of 30% of my early dmg which isnt realy helping with the whole "atack damaging role possition"
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Martinius

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