Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
so riot made a mistake by unbanning tyler1, (in your opinion) but they couldnt possibly be making a mistake when in comes to thier permaban system? "People get permabanned because they refuse to reform. So, it's not like Riot expects them to." but we have already proved that permabans dont actually work, and they dont make people reform, at least not most of them.
: why the "permaban" policy might be damaging to the community
so far out of a humble 70 total votes, we have: - 34 votes on the agreeable site of the spectrum, - 33 on the disagreeable side. - and 3 undecided. given the small amount of total votes this proves nothing really, other than the fact that the majority of players DO NOT actually agree upon if the permaban system should be removed or changed. seems in here at least that the community is very much split down the middle on this issue. not saying anyone is necesarily wrong or right. but its interresting at least. a vast majority of players agree that toxicity and other forms or vialating the summoners code should be punished, of wich im among that majority. but this is not to be confused with this topic. because as it turns out. we do not agree upon the "harshness" of the penalties or to wich degree they should be given.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
until you show me a riot support or any riot employee directly saying to permabanned playes that they are not welcomed back im sticking to my point and im not gonna discuss this any further.
: > [{quoted}](name=Narkotikas,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=n41WKE78,comment-id=0000000100000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2018-05-28T17:08:00.509+0000) > > how about acknowledging the fact that i was actually right, instead of instantly turning your attention to the fact that i am getting slightly tilted by this guy who states wrong facts, makes extrordinary claims without evidence, and keeps on sneaking around the fact that he was proven to be wrong. > Man, will you just stop telling yourself you are right? I understand you got an issue with your overinflated ego but come on, enough is enough. And here's my take on you "being right": https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/n41WKE78-why-the-permaban-policy-might-be-damaging-to-the-community?comment=00000001000000000000000000000000000000000000 > as i said i've tried asking these kinds of questions on these boards before, > and often i am met by so called "honorable" players who only comes to the player behavior boards to poke and tease the permabanned people writing here. insisting that i am some super butthurt, triggered and salty snowflake soyboy who only speaks well and acts nice because i got a permaban. > as i said im not even playing this game anymore, so i have no personal stake in this. > but after playing this game for 3+ years i am just genuinely curious as to what other people think about this terms of service. > if that makes it easier for you to understand. I read that already. Copy/paste does not make you look that smart, you know. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}}
avoiding valid points doesnt make you look any smarter tho xD lmao
: > [{quoted}](name=Narkotikas,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=n41WKE78,comment-id=0000000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-28T16:52:38.307+0000) > > frankly its getting quite frustrating when i catch him in an obvious straight out lie, > and then he proceeds to talk is way around it never a acknowledging the fact that what he said was not true at all. > this is so blatently obvious, and so im not allowed to be a little bit emsy with how i respond after reapeating myself to him 6 times? So your point is: You got banned for flaming, that is, you were put into a position where it's possible that you will get mad with the game and it's developer and never spend a dime on it. And since with the ban or in any other way you got a message that notify you of the possibility of create another account, you take it as a demonstration that the secret plan of RioT is prompt you into spending more money, possibly to get the exact same stuff you lost again. And since shiwah reminded you that you WERE JUST INFACT BANNED AS A FLAMER, you take it as a lie that you are kinda not unwelcome in the game. This happened RIGHT AFTER YOU GOT BANNED. What to say? You remind me the guy that tried to demonstrate with every BS he was able to make up on the fly that forcing loss streaks on the players ENCOURAGE them to spend more money :D. I'll say, if not else, that you are rapidly reaching a laughable level of mastery in this. Go ahead. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}}
my point was never about me, this whole post was never about me specifically, and i never intended it to be. i find it hard to believe that you read my text and responds at all. because 80% of what you say i have already explained 10 times now. "And since with the ban or in any other way you got a message that notify you of the possibility of create" i never said anything about this. "If you still want to play League, feel free to create a new account and start fresh, you will find leveling up to be much faster after the updates. Let me know if there's anything else you need help with. Have a good one, Snorjax Player Support Specialist" informing a player that leveling up is much faster now after the new updates is an ecouraging way to state that if you decide to keep playing our game, it will be easier and faster for you to build a new account. THAT IS BY DEFINITION: ENCOURAGING.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
thats a very short and narrow way of misrepresenting what i said
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
again you refuse to see the point. the point here is that if they wanted to make it that much harder for you to sign up and play they would do it. yet they dont
: > [{quoted}](name=Narkotikas,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=n41WKE78,comment-id=00000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-28T03:55:34.518+0000) > > shiwah just stop it.. > your only making yourself look more and more stupid by every comment. > just acknowledge the fact that what you said is not true. > why do you have to be so proud and stubborn? > > you said that riot dont want permabanned people to start new accounts and that is NOT true. > i just proved it to you, its there black on white. > and as KRIGNES said, if they really dont want you to start a new account and keep playing thier game, they could perhaps not stop you with a 100% certainty, but they sure as hell would make it a hell of alot harder for you. > > dont forget that you are just a volentary emissary. > you dont work for riot per' se. and you dont speak for them. > > informing a player that leveling up is much faster now after the new updates is an ecouraging way to state that if you decide to keep playing our game, it will be easier and faster for you to build a new account. > > THAT IS BY DEFINITION: ENCOURAGING. > there is no way for you out of this one, unless you want to start changing the definition of words. > and i'd love to see you try.. Man, you are nothing but one more random guy who was banned for flaming and it's now trying to make flaming pass for justified by stacking up the usual pile of BS: "riot care only about money" "LoL is competitive so getting mad is normal" "anyone is doomed to be punished sooner or later" and so on...and you are not even close to be the best we readed in the lot of the countless that tried to throw the same s@@t at us. You had your chance. You waste it. You had your say. Now get back into the line because someone else turn is coming.
how about acknowledging the fact that i was actually right, instead of instantly turning your attention to the fact that i am getting slightly tilted by this guy who states wrong facts, makes extrordinary claims without evidence, and keeps on sneaking around the fact that he was proven to be wrong. as i said i've tried asking these kinds of questions on these boards before, and often i am met by so called "honorable" players who only comes to the player behavior boards to poke and tease the permabanned people writing here. insisting that i am some super butthurt, triggered and salty snowflake soyboy who only speaks well and acts nice because i got a permaban. as i said im not even playing this game anymore, so i have no personal stake in this. but after playing this game for 3+ years i am just genuinely curious as to what other people think about this terms of service. if that makes it easier for you to understand.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
you talk alot about surveys and riots statistics, and since you claim to know what you are talking about it should be no problem at all fetching me one of those statistics. you always want proof from me so howcome i never see a link or anything from you? you ought to look up hipocrosy in a dictionary
DearPear (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Narkotikas,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=n41WKE78,comment-id=0003000100000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-05-28T04:56:01.857+0000) > > especially when that punishment is very unjust or questionable Well, bring some proofs? > maybe not all get a permaban, but if you play enough, no matter if you are on your best behavior at some point you are doomed to be caught in doing or saying something mildly inapropriate, and when toxic people report you for it, you will get punished. I'm playing since the beginning of season one, back in 2010, I've never gotten any punishment. I mean it, not a single punishment.
"Well, bring some proofs?" what about the fact that small time offenders who type stuff like: gg ez, ff15, noob team, feeder top, bronze kid etc. gets treated equally to the hardcore racists, cheaters, scripters and so on? does that seem reasonable to you? its the equivilant of taking a guy who got a couple of speeding tickets and charging him with first degree murder.
DearPear (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Narkotikas,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=n41WKE78,comment-id=00000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-28T03:55:34.518+0000) > > shiwah just stop it.. > your only making yourself look more and more stupid by every comment. To be honest that's the other way around. Your constant attempt at demeaning people that disagree with you isn't really helping your case.
frankly its getting quite frustrating when i catch him in an obvious straight out lie, and then he proceeds to talk is way around it never a acknowledging the fact that what he said was not true at all. this is so blatently obvious, and so im not allowed to be a little bit emsy with how i respond after reapeating myself to him 6 times?
Enjutsu (EUNE)
: Even mild misbehavior gets annoying and if eventually doesn't get fixed it should be banned too.
: ***
that seems mildly inapropriate for a discussion about player behavior dont you think?
Enjutsu (EUNE)
: The speed at which system gets rid of toxic players is a very important aspect. The longer toxic players are allowed to be toxic, the more they spread it. According to Riot majority of players don't get banned at all, looking at some on boards examples it looks like a lot of those who manage to get permabanned also manage to get their behavior under control in another account and i know only very few examples here who keep making new accounts and getting them banned. It does look like they keep making them because they don't care anymore, but others seem just refuse to fix their behavior. I think another punishment between permaban and a 14-day ban would make sense because it seems like some people tend not to realize that 14-day ban is their last chance, but i think Riot has tested that and it didn't change anything, those players were toxic for just that much longer. But i don't think non-permabans would work, this way players could just cycle through their banned accounts across the season and just be toxic punishment-free.
i came to the conclusion that permabans are neccesary for extremely unacceptable behaviors like cheating/ scripting, ddos attacks, death threats botted accounts etc. surely we need a permaban system. its just that the one we have now is just way to strict, and often makes small time offenders and people who only speak mildly negative in chat consistntly to become more toxic by alienating them by permabanning them, and treating them equally to people who give death threats, script and so on.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
"And people quitting the game because of flamers don't spend money... Think about it." and people with videogame addictions (of wich there are many) spend even more money on the same skins and champs when you can permaban thier accounts. think about it. there are lots of reasons for people quitting the game, but because of toxic people is not as typical of a reason than you might think. if you like to play a competitive game, no matter if its lol, cs go or whatever. people will flame, so you are never getting around that. and of the people getting permabanned, the ones who are not addicted, and wont keep creating new accounts and keep spending money will quit instead. and thats sure as hell not making them more money from those who are sick of the overly and unnecesarily strict permaban policy. so maybe that should be in thier focus instead. "Funny, 5 years old account and not a single restriction on it. And about 75% of the game's population is in the same boat as me." according to privacy policy riot does not deliver you information about your previous bans or restrictions. (unless you pay 5 bucks ofcourse) so i guess we will just have to take your word for it. besides.. it is NOT 75% of all lol players who have never had a penalty. there might be millions of lol accounts, and some people are tied up to 3 - 5 accounts sometimes even more. some of them might only have gotten 1 or 2 penalties on one of thier accounts, but still they make a larger percentage due to them having multiple accounts. this fact aswell as others suggests that even if you where able to come up with a rather precise estimate, it would be nowhere near the 75% you are claiming to be a part of.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
especially when that punishment is very unjust or questionable
: Got my account permabanned 1year ago since I got triggered by some bad teams who would troll and be toxic, but riot decided that I'm not allowed to respond in any way to them in any 'toxic' way, not even calling them noobs, me being punished and them got nothing cuz 'my chat matters only', so here I am now, 'reformed', new accounts, this one Honor 1 with 1point to lvl 2 since I got punished once and dropped to level 0 last year and in one fking year I went back to lvl 1, + another main account honor 4 So I guess SOME players can reform after all. Just Mute all and ignore em, because this is the only thing to do in some situations and you don't want to risk a permaban again, even comunication ingame is 0. Rather then permaban this guy has an alternative who can or not work. Also I would like to get my old account back, playing on that one for 4+ years and spending more than 900$
you just brought up another good point: if riot needs to use fear (in the form of a permaban) to have a better community thats just sad honestly. if good behavior is motivated by fear, its not genuinely good behavior. thats just pure tyrany. if your player base are only acting nice because they fear that you are gonna permaban them, you are not actually making a better community. and when people do get permabanned, they lose that fear, as they dont really care about thier new accounts. and thus you end up breeding 10 times more toxicity than before. thats why dictatorship and tyrany never works out in the end. because when people do end up losing everything they where scared of losing, they wont be holding themselves back anymore. and there is no one more toxic than an already toxic player who lost his main account forever, and has nothing to lose anymore, and i'd rather have the guy who just got off a 3 month ban on my team than a guy who's main account just got banned.
kriegnes (EUW)
: my problem is that with the community being so toxic and bad, people started to cry about everything. banning someone who is unable to communicate like a normal human being seems fair. but nowadays people are getting butthurt over everything you say
yea pretty much. people nowadays are a bunch of pantsies. and people will report you for anything you do or dont do ingame. if you as a support by accident last hits 1 minion in lane - reported for trolling and aiding enemy team. if you secure a kill - reported for ks if you have a non classical item in your build - reported for troll. if you dont give your midlaner every single bluebuff in the game - reported. if you splitpush - reported. if you dont splitpush - reported. if you dont type in chat - reported for refusing to communicate. if you lose lane - reported. its actually ridiciulous
: Yup. I just did. I took the worst things that you can do in-game, and compared with some pretty nasty IRL things. Since flaming/inting IS THE WORST THING you can do to another player. You have no power to do more than that. If you got caught up on that, and missed my whole point, that isn't my problem. Perhaps you should read it again - I think you need it, since you're the one who got permad. Sincerely, A player that has never been punished.
pls tell me more about how you are so much better than everyone else. it is so interresting..
Sefiroz (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Narkotikas,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=n41WKE78,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-05-27T18:52:39.613+0000) > > lol is probably in the top 3 of most toxic gaming communities in the world. and league is also one of only games who has a permaban policy like this. And what do you actually expect would happen if this toxic community would get away with their bullshit unpunished? _**Temporary**_ punishments will ALWAYS let toxic players go back to their previous ways, and the truth is the vast majority of them will actually do this in the end. The one and only true solution to toxic social behavior in League is to not have an in-game chat at all(voice included), and let players communicate only either through pings and/or third party voice software. The harsh truth is when you play with random players you won't get much out of having a discussion with your team anyway, I would even argue having pings only and focusing more on the game itself rather than a chat would _**improve**_ everyone's teamplay potential drastically over a short period of time.
"And what do you actually expect would happen if this toxic community would get away with their bullshit unpunished?" well.. no.. i gave you an alternative punishment system, i never said that toxicity should go unpunished. a vast majority of leagues community agrees that toxic behavior should be punished. what we cant seem to agree upon is how harsh the punishment should be, and where the line should as far as how negative you have to be to be toxic. "Temporary punishments will ALWAYS let toxic players go back to their previous ways, and the truth is the vast majority of them will actually do this in the end." its like saying: permanent punishments will always make toxic players create new accounts and become 10 times more toxic as a result.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
you dont know at all what you are talking about. the personal stake riot has in this is not about flamers making people quit, its about money, cold hard cash. not to say that all riot cares about is money, but basically at the end of the day in any company, its all about the green. you'd be a naive fool to believe otherwise. a permaban is not meant to send a message of "we dont want you here" its more like: we dont accept your behavior so we are gonna confiscate your account and all the money spent on it, but feel free to make another account and send us more money. also i just proved to you that they actually encourage permabanned players to start new accounts, wich you thus far refuse to achknowledge. " human beings can, and will, be complete jerks online when they're sure they won't get punished." the problem here is that in league people know they will get punished if they behave unaccording to the rules. and so many people are still getting banned, and that just goes to show that the rules of this game are so strict of any form of negativaty, that it is pretty much impossible for most people not to get punished for something at some point. maybe not all get a permaban, but if you play enough, no matter if you are on your best behavior at some point you are doomed to be caught in doing or saying something mildly inapropriate, and when toxic people report you for it, you will get punished. and lastly i think you know that comparring social media platforms with a competitive game is no fair comparrison. its nowhere near the same. in a competitive enviornment inapropriate words, slander, and playful teasing is bound to happen no matter how honorable you are. its a highly competitive game, and riot pushes it to be so. they've openly admitted so. i dont think at all that the permaban policy should be completely removed. but i feel pretty strongly that it should be changed up, and be reserved for those extremely unacceptable actions like, cheating, scripting, ddos attacks, botted accounts etc. and it should not be used for permaban small time offenders who may be consistent in thier negativety, but says nothing more than gg ez, noob team, lucky bastard, feeder top, ff, surrender 15, omfg and stuff like that. if you really think that people should be permanently suspended for that language in a highly competitive game you really have your priorities wrong mate.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
shiwah just stop it.. your only making yourself look more and more stupid by every comment. just acknowledge the fact that what you said is not true. why do you have to be so proud and stubborn? you said that riot dont want permabanned people to start new accounts and that is NOT true. i just proved it to you, its there black on white. and as KRIGNES said, if they really dont want you to start a new account and keep playing thier game, they could perhaps not stop you with a 100% certainty, but they sure as hell would make it a hell of alot harder for you. dont forget that you are just a volentary emissary. you dont work for riot per' se. and you dont speak for them. informing a player that leveling up is much faster now after the new updates is an ecouraging way to state that if you decide to keep playing our game, it will be easier and faster for you to build a new account. THAT IS BY DEFINITION: ENCOURAGING. there is no way for you out of this one, unless you want to start changing the definition of words. and i'd love to see you try..
: Permaban =/= not allowed to play. You have a contract with riot, when you create the acc, the time and money spent is theirs, not yours. You don't OWN your account, you're just renting it for free, from Riot. If you misbehave and break the contract, you lose the ability to rent the same account either for a limited time, or your contract gets revoked, AKA you get permabanned. HOWEVER, you can create a new acc, and do the same thing over again, if you feel that you've reformed. This is exactly how real life works. You fu#k up at your job, punch your boss in the throat, you get kicked out, maybe even go to jail. The whole time-out system is obviously made for children. If you're an adult, you must have mental or emotional issues to be able to get banned in a video game. Healthy functioning, social adults understand the basic rules of the games, which are the same as the basic rules of the society. You try to be a nice person. If you get into an argument, you don't execute the other guy with a close-range shotgun mouth-shot . Your parking space gets taken, you don't set the other car on fire, hunting down the owner's family one by one, crucifying them. You get inted in lol, you don't wish cancer upon them. You get flamed, you don't wish cancer upon them. It's not rocket science cmon.
your really gonna compare saying: gg ez, noob, feeder team, omg, etc. in a video game, with punching your boss in the throat and shooting people in the mouth?
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
maybe you are just scared of questioning any decisions made by riot. maybe you dont know how the system works, and maybe you with your narrow minded perspective cant see any better solutions to this problem. if riot made 1 experiment 4 years ago that showed that permaban was the only and best solution thats fine. but listen mate.. you can find experiments thats shows pretty much anything you want it to show. you could for example find 10 experiments showing that apples react to human thoughts. and then you could find 100+ experiments showing the opposite. if you only make 1 experiment 4 years ago that means nothing if you dont have a size'able amount of experiments proving the fact. when we are talking about these kinds of social experiments we are talking about science. and science is not about making 1 experiment, then draw a conclusion from that one experiment, and then living the rest of our lives never questioning those results. many old experiments gets proven wrong by modern science every single day. the problem here is that riot themselves has only made 1 single experiment more than 4 years ago. and riot games, wether you like it or not has a bias, and a personal stake in this problem. the fact of the matter is that its people like you, who are afraid to ask questions, and takes everything you hear from riot as some sort of biblical truth. "Pretty much everyone is afraid of what they lack information about." and you my frind, are no exception.. as i said.. i think its about time to make some new experiments. so we can hopefully put this problem to bed and find a much better solution for all.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
dude.. your point was: "Riot is telling you to not come back, when you get a perma." and that is definetly not true. you just said it yourself. and i just showed you the opposite. if they didnt want me to create a new account they wouldnt tell me that i could do so, regardless if they could stop me or not. and when they add: you will find leveling up to be much faster after the updates. that is by definition: "encouraging" so stop trying to sneak your way out of this one by changing it to: "they're just telling you that you can do something they have no power to stop you from doing." you said that Riot is telling people to not come back, when they get a permaban. and that is NOT correct.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
lets be real.. alot has happened since S4. maybe its time to do another experiment.
: > [{quoted}](name=Narkotikas,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=n41WKE78,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-05-27T19:17:44.995+0000) > > well so far it seems the majority of players reading this agrees with me. > so all this is just your own opinion. Good thing it's not the community that always knows what's best for the game, hence they are not working on the game themselves. Doesn't make your or mine opinion any more valid. Mind actually replying something constructive to the actual points I made? or is people upvoting you all you need.
im interrested in what people have to say from both spectrums of the issue. but i am not interrested in having a personal fight or debate with anyone. as you said: this Doesn't make your or my opinion any more valid. so you see its pointless to argue. but i'll take that the majority thus far seems to agree with me and not you, as a sign that i am part of a majority of people in here who agrees that the permaban system is flawed. i just asked these questions because i was curious as to if i was the only one feeling this way. there is nothing more to it.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
first of all thats not what you said. second: on my specific permaban i submitted a ticket and i was told this: "If you still want to play League, feel free to create a new account and start fresh, you will find leveling up to be much faster after the updates. Let me know if there's anything else you need help with. Have a good one, Snorjax Player Support Specialist" if that is not encouraging i dont know what is.
: Yeah, probably people who where already banned aswell.
i like how you have to validate yourself by putting banned people in a specific box, and then exclude yourself from that box like we are not humans all of us. even if all the people agreeing with me are banned dont you think that its a problem if a majority of a player base is banned?
Saibbo (EUW)
: A ban of a couple of week or even months will not make a person any less toxic, it's a bland temporary punishment that it's not even a punishment because the guy could get on an another account and keep playing the game as is nothing happened, and that's totally fine, riot don't ban people from playing the game, they ban the account as a lesson for that person. Even if the ban would last for years the dude would just create a new account and at the end of the ban he will have multiple account to smurf with (and people already love that) because if a high rank player get banned because of the inactivity he'll get demoted back to gold or hopefully after at least a year he would get better and now he may even sell one of them, smurf, whatever and he'll still be toxic, that's not a punishment at all. Instead a threat or actually getting your account completely taken away, that's something that should make you think that you'll actually lose something for "breaking the laws" that lol has and if you don't want to start from 0 every time you should just behave normally.
you have a good point but i dont think your right
ˉˉIˉˉ (EUW)
: I usually never agree with those kind of posts because usually the argumentation is really weird or only looks like "please just unban my account". But you really got some nice arguments and I actually start to think that if a player gets banned for like a month or two, they actually change. I like your idea and I hope the system will be changed at some point. I don't think permabans should be completly removed though (They could still permaban scripter, people who DDOS or botted accounts).
i agree. cheating, scripting ddos etc is just a whole other level of unacceptable in a competitive game. but toxicity is just such a wide concept. and though its still unacceptable, alot of people has problems with anger issues or whatever you may call toxicity, but its more rare to see people scrippting cheating etc.
: > [{quoted}](name=Narkotikas,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=n41WKE78,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-05-27T18:52:39.613+0000) > > i had a question for the riot supports, they could not give me an answer but suggested that i might post my questions on the boards instead as rioters regularly visit these discussions. so there ya' go. > > Narkotikas > > May 26, 8:16 PM PDT > > about a month and a half ago or so, my league of legends account was permanently suspended for griefing. > at first i was really annoyed, angry and frustrated with myself, but nowadays it doesnt really affect me anymore. > i wrote to you guys trying to get one last chance. you refused to cooperate and i refused to take no for an answer and accept reality. im sorry if you guys felt like i was being annoying, but honestly i think your communication towards me could've been better aswell. Well, if they tell you your ban was deserved what more do you expect them to do? > that being said.. after not playing league for a good long while now, i feel that league of legends finally has run its natural course for me. i enjoyed this game alot and i had alot of fun with it and met alot of great people though it the last many years. but after the permaban i realized that i can no longer stand by the terms of service in this game. > i dont at all like the fact that riot games has 100% ownership of my accounts and can choose to permanently terminate any account with no reason what so ever. i know your terms of service are carefully constructed and written by lawyers as to avoid certain problems, but from a players perspective its kinda crazy if you read it through. Any game company owns your account and can terminate it any time they want. And no, they don't do it without reason. > i know you dont go around permabanning accounts without a good reason, but just the fact that you technically can erase anybodys account wich people has often put alot of time and possibly hard earned money into, without any trial, personal review or appeal, or even any reason at all is just flat out tyrani from a consumers perspective. > There's no need for a trial when someone's obviously being consistently toxic. Whatever you may think, under no circumstances is flaming or toxicity allowed, hence there are no trials. Amount of time and money spent has no influence on what rules you are allowed to break, that's only logical. > my point is this: > lol is probably in the top 3 of most toxic gaming communities in the world. and league is also one of only games who has a permaban policy like this. The toxicity of the community isn't really Riot's fault. And just because there are not many games both the scale and gameplay type of league of legends, obviously systems will be different. > i'd argue that this permaban policy is a big part of why leagues community is so toxic. People are more toxic because they will permanently lose their account if they are toxic? > it alienates small time offenders from the game, and breeds even more toxic players by permanently banning the only accounts they really care about, the ones they've put alot of blood sweat and tears, aswell as hard earned money and precious time, leaving them with no chance whatsoever to reform beyond this point. They've had a chance to reform after their first offenses. 'small time offenders' don't get banned, it takes a consistent amount of negativity and toxicity to get a permanent ban, hence why so little players actually get there. Every perma banned player can make a new account, but giving their original account back would just make bans meaningless as it wouldn't mean much more than a regular 14-day ban. > leading many to set up new accounts wich they dont care for, and since its so easy to create a new account, people wont reform as there is nothing be gained from this since the only account they cared enough for to actually cange is gone forever. > in reality this policy creates 10 times more toxicity than it prevents. dont you see? > Why is every person always complaining about not getting chances to reform? You didn't get an insta perma ban. If you cared so much for your account, then you've had enough chances to reform and prove that you deserve to keep your account. You didn't choose to reform, you got banned. Adding more and more opportunities for so called 'reforming' will result in nothing because, quite frankly, if you reach the permanent ban then you've already proven you didn't reform. > if instead of a permanent suspension you changed the penalties to: > - 10 games chat restriction. > - 25 games chat restriction > - 2 week suspension > - 4 week suspension > - 3 month suspension > - 6 month suspension > - 1 year suspension > so more chances? Would do nothing. Riot has already done tests like that, and the overwhelming majority of toxic players remained toxic and proved they didn't reform. Sorry, but adding more steps to the penalties will do nothing. > and alternatively, you could ban people from playing ranked or something. > Because breaking the rules is allowed in normals? > dont you think people would actually be much more willing to reform? You mean if they don't risk losing their account? No, they won't. > instead of having people either leave the game or create new accounts they dont have the personal attachment to, and never really reforming because they dont care enough for thier secondary accounts. Just let those people care less about the ban itself because they never really lose anything. That will surely help. > i know for myself if i had a 6 month ban i would have a good long time to think about my actions, and a long wait for my account to be unbanned would be so much more worth it to actually reform. > than to just get a permaban and leave a otherwise enjoyable game because you dont want to start all over again after 3+ years of building you personal account. > If you choose to give up your account that's so dear to you instead of controlling yourself, those 6 months won't do much. > i know you are one of the biggest videogame companies in the world, and you probably dont feel like you have to change anything. but i just think that your permaban policy is outdated and damaging, and your game would be much better of without it. dont you think? > does this make any sense to you? Not really > because i think a majority of players would agree with me. > Good luck on that one. > > > now i know that the majority of leagues community agrees that toxicity should be punished. > but do we all agree that a permanent suspension is actually the right punishment? > especially since "toxicity" is kinda dancing on the razors edge of what toxic actually means, > seems also its a blurred line of what toxicity means and that the small time offenders gets punished equally to the hardcore racist's, inters, cheaters etc. > especially taking into consideration that this is all carried out by a instant feedback system or AI. > Small time offenders don't get the same punishments. and instant feedback system and AI is enough to detect toxicity.
well so far it seems the majority of players reading this agrees with me. so all this is just your own opinion.
L0onster (EUW)
: After they ban my first account with money and time put into it I kind of fit in extremes of your points..... I thought 'well if you can just take my account, fk it I'll just be more toxic and just keep making accounts without spending money' Seems strange but they really don't want to help the problem they got some automatic system in place and just want to sit back.... fine but now have a game with a really toxic community and well known for a racist, toxic, hateful player base..... must be so proud.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
"That's the point: Riot is telling you to not come back, when you get a perma." no they dont. they actually encourage you to start a new account and start on a clean plate with a fresh attitude. i can show you screenshots if u want evidence
: So much for a "fun" gamemode
he mad because he bad
Rioter Comments
UPPERCASE (EUW)
: Well it's not permabanned i guess. You can safe the logins and maybe in 200 Years League is still a thing and your children children children children can play on your account! Wohoo!
probably i wouldnt let my children make the same mistakes i made, like getting caught up in videogames and stuff like that. there is much more to life.
: the thing that amazes me is how you banned guys can write a fricking giant wall of text crying about your ban in proper english. and then you go in chat and all you can type is garbage like: >Narkotikas: im done >Narkotikas: gg >Narkotikas: omfg team >Narkotikas: gg >Narkotikas: u deserve this lose >Narkotikas: gg noobs
i like how you have to validate yourself by putting other people in boxes like: "permabanned guys" if: gg, omfg, noobs, and stuff of that caliber gets you permabanned your account may be next ;)
: > Name _one_. Link me to _one_ example of that explicitly happening. If you can't do that, you've no-one to blame but yourself. If he mentions tyler1 again, i'll treat myself to a chocolatechip icecream tonight
are you always this triggerhorny?? xD i bet your the type of guy who goes to every vegan youtube video and writes: "im eating a big fat %%%%in' stake right now" in the comment section.
: >you are so oblivious to what is actually going on here. You need to stop projecting your issues on others, my friend. >you take small portions of a wide and abstract text i wrote, I think you just found the word that defines your logic : "abstract". Nicely done! >nitpick everything, My SO tells me it's endearing... >and misrepresent what i actually said or meant. Shiwah already caught you in a lie a few times. But whatever you say... >putting words in my mouth There's so much shit in there, I couldn't put anything inside even if I wanted to >and desperatly trying to fit me in a certain frame of someone toxic Tbh I don't need to try any such thing. As the support already pointed out in that exchange, you're doing a great job by yourself. No help necessary >meanwhile your being kinda toxic in the process. If you say so...
"You need to stop projecting your issues on others, my friend." - i never did. "I think you just found the word that defines your logic : "abstract". Nicely done!" - unnecesary flame* "Shiwah already caught you in a lie a few times." - no he didnt. i was upright and front in what i wrote in my ticket, he only took a portion of it and keeps on insisting that i claimed to talk only about reform through another account even tho thats not even half of what i said or meant. "If you say so..." a classic: "whatever you say im just gonna repeat what you said and fit it in a stupid analogy" comment.
: >unlikely to work doesnt mean its not worth trying. no. it doesn't. however it also means you shouldn't be surprised when it doesn't work. but what do **you** do when that's precisely what happens? you prove that reforming isn't your thing >i'd argue that if a support team of any game or company refuses to cooperate >and not even reading up on your ticket and responding to your points and arguments, wich is thier job. they didn't refuse to cooperate. they read the ticket and gave you your answer. you are the one who **refused** to hear it >doesnt want to even transfer your ticket altough other people have had the right to do so, i think you missunderstand what happens in the video you linked. the player behaviour wasn't forwarded the issue because Frosty **deserved** it by default. they forwarded it because they **chose to** do it, Off their own accord. because he was polite in his request and didn't stop being polite after the first time they said "nay" **unlike you** >if they dont even do these simple things. aka "if they don't do my bidding because i said so" >i'd argue that they are incompetent yes. and there is nothing wrong with that claim. like i said ***reformed, my ass!*** >and it has nothing to do with having reformed or not. you don't know what the word "reformed" means then
you are so oblivious to what is actually going on here. you take small portions of a wide and abstract text i wrote, nitpick everything, and misrepresent what i actually said or meant. putting words in my mouth and desperatly trying to fit me in a certain frame of someone toxic, meanwhile your being kinda toxic in the process.
: you are drawing your own conclusions about me not even knowing me or the full details of my former bans. i didnt call anyone stupid, indeed i did maybe imply that. but thats not flame. in game i can imply that i am unsatisfied with something. but as long as i dont make a direct negative statement its not flame.
if you percieve it to be a personal attack or flame thats not for me to care about. im gonna be polite and reasonable, but i am not gonna be walking on eggshells every time i have to debate someone or tell someone anything they dont like to hear.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
you are drawing your own conclusions about me not even knowing me or the full details of my former bans. i didnt call anyone stupid, indeed i did maybe imply that. but thats not flame. in game i can imply that i am unsatisfied with something. but as long as i dont make a direct negative statement its not flame.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
the video may not have been about that specifically. but as you said yourself, people did get the oppertunity to get thier accounts unbanned by showiing good behavior on another account. so my "claim" is not really a claim then is it?
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
tell me exactly how im flaming? pretty much anything you say that goes even slightly against someone elses opinion is flame now? im treating you no different than you treat me, can we not have a conversation without me having to kiss your ass just because i am on this unfurtunate side of the spectrum?? battleling opposing views and arguments means that you will disagree, and i've still written you with respect so far, and you guys are flaming me, poking me, and belitteling me because of my possition and situation, am i not allowed to be just a little bit emsy with my response then? why do you have to be such a pantsie about it? its like your purpously trying to get a mildly negative reaction from me or waiting for me to say a toxic word or inapropriate comment so you can jump all over me and rub it in my face how i actually am toxic or something. its abnoxious really.. stop it pls
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
never ever did i "flame" them. i have been very patient with the player supports. one of my main points was that the player supports are not qualified to make these decisions, as they actually have a player behavior team dedicated to working on these issues, but they wouldnt transfer me. i explained in an earlier response to you about the former "toxicity" so that should be explained by now.
: the problem is that the guy in the video's interaction and OP's are like the sun and the moon. the video specifically says, about 1 minute in, that (a) the method is very very unlikely to work and (b) "be polite, patient and mature" , both of which, OP promptly ignored, the second one in particular. Calling the support staff "incompetent" when they refuse to see things your way is not how a supposedly "reformed" player acts.
unlikely to work doesnt mean its not worth trying. and i'd rather have an oppertunity that is unlikely to work, than to be given no oppertunity at all. i'd argue that if a support team of any game or company refuses to cooperate, doesnt want to even transfer your ticket altough other people have had the right to do so, and not even reading up on your ticket and responding to your points and arguments, wich is thier job. if they dont even do these simple things. i'd argue that they are incompetent yes. and there is nothing wrong with that claim. and it has nothing to do with having reformed or not.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
yeah im just gonna keep repeating what you kept on repeating to me. mind showing evidence? or else your statement has no ground whatsoever
: i want to make it 100% clear that i NEVER talked about showing good behavior through another account. YOU brought that up not me. in my whole ticket request never once did i mention anything about this. so stop putting words in my mouth! you say: " by your own words, you were "worse" in the past. What makes you think this little fact didn't weigh in the support's decision?" and thats good point you brought up there, if i was "worse" in the past, that means that my sportsmanship has improved since the past. so that makes a good case as to how it would be highly likely for me to get even better and avoid future penalties. dont you think? also you failed to adress my last point in my last response.
oh yeah, and the riot supports have seen this improvement. so i dont know why they wouldnt think that i'd be able to improve further past this. maybe because they believe in these crazy statistics you talked about. but since im already supposedly in the 0.006% of players i dont see why i still couldnt be in the top 5% who actually can reform after a permaban. this oppertunity was given to other players in the past, although be it with the lvl 20 rule. but i at least want the same oppertunity. but i dont deserve that i guess.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
i want to make it 100% clear that i NEVER talked about showing good behavior through another account. YOU brought that up not me. in my whole ticket request never once did i mention anything about this. so stop putting words in my mouth! you say: " by your own words, you were "worse" in the past. What makes you think this little fact didn't weigh in the support's decision?" and thats good point you brought up there, if i was "worse" in the past, that means that my sportsmanship has improved since the past. so that makes a good case as to how it would be highly likely for me to get even better and avoid future penalties. dont you think? also you failed to adress my last point in my last response.
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Narkotikas

Level 114 (EUW)
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