Tünde (EUNE)
"Almost every champion you make since yasuo's release have a knock up for his ult" I mean... Aurelion Sol, Jhin, Illaoi, Kindred, Tahm, Ekko, Bard, thats more than half the champs released after Yasuo lel.
: can some explain me building sightstone on jungle ekko?
In lcs: Because of vision control and them HP In soloq: Because people blindly copy LCS while they probably use 2 charges the whole game. :]
: 'They Are Coming' Analyzed: Yes, it's probably a new champion, and heres why.
First time Im actually hyped for something ever since I can remember lel. Hopefully the new champ, whatever itll be, is gonna be actually hard to learn and play unlike recent new champs. Imo theres no point maining a champ thats easy as shit.
: > [{quoted}](name=Penns,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=Unq79fT4,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2015-08-17T17:14:45.390+0000) > > It is luck based. I mean, what else would a 5v5 game be based on? Like I said, I complain about luck in general, not just bad luck. > IF you get fed litterally every single game you play, you will still lose at least 35-45% of the games you play, which is more than enough to carry but you still lose nearly half your games to a factor you cannot influence at all, which is sad :[ That is not luck, that is called losing. You lose because the enemy was better. It is no luck to get outplayed or to get outskilled. It is not luck that you did more mistakes than the enemy, or the enemy could capitalize on them better than you
> You lose because the enemy was better *than your team*. >It is not luck that *your team* did more mistakes than the enemy, or the enemy could capitalize on them better than *your team*. I fixed that for you, a bit late but I had to kek.
D1onys1us (EUW)
: I guess we will all get challanger now playing annie right. The only "broken" champ right now is skarner.
Pretty much everything in the game right now is broken lel.
: All these threads are pathetic. Ask yourself why there are so many players who get their unranked smurfs to diamond in less than a week. And you do not need to be diamond to climb fast. You wont climb from grinding, you can have 50000 losses in a row and blame it on trolls, but if you were actually good enough to climb you would also carry trolls.
Did you even read what I wrote lel?
Encrux (EUW)
: I don't think that is true. You don't climb slower, because you're "unlucky", you climb slower because you're not improving as fast as you may did in the past. It's just normal that you winrate goes down to an average 50% when you reach the elo you belong to, but that doesn't mean climbing further from that point is based on luck. I have an example of myself: When I reached platinum 5 I was stuck there for quite a while, being unable to reach plat4. I discovered the channel of lastshadow(league coach) and binge-watched his videos. I reached plat3 after a weak and even kept climbing steadily after that. Statistically your team will always be as good as your enemy team (players who feed and players who carry even themselves out), meaning YOU are the deciding factor to win. Going even every game will eventually result in a 50% winrate. Winning your lane frequently will obviously push your winrate -> you start climbing. I see a lot(almost every 3rd post on the boards) of people who complain about "elo hell", "soloq is luck" and that kind of stuff. And I do have to disagree, because you can ALWAYS step up your own gameplay. The difference between a good player and a bad player is that the good player knows what he did wrong that game, the bad player doesn't.
If you play like Gold, dont improve at all anymore and you are currently in, lets say, Silver 4, the only thing that can slow down your climbing, is luck. If the same person somehow improves to a Plat player in Silver 4, luck slows down his climbing less since his bonus skill might make up for that 7/0 Vayne, other than when he played like Gold, maybe because he upgraded his red trinket, who knows lel. As always, this also applies vice verse. Yeah, I never said tham improving doesnt help you climb. There are so many chances I didnt talk about, like smurfs in low elo, counterpicks,... Statistically, all of them even out, but statistics are not law (though, if you are not a smurf, doesnt the enemy have a higher chance to get one? Take that! lol) I didnt complain about elo hell, nor that the climbing part of soloq is luck based, did I? I wrote soloq because I meant games where you are alone with 9 other people because obviously 5v5 teamrankeds are way less luck based.
: If you're going to ignore every point I bring up and then cry about how I'm "not bringing any arguments" then I'm just going to leave. Have fun kiddo.
Idk if youre trolling or not lol. Literally the only more or less reasonable point you came up with was "Games aren't won on luck, they're won on intelligent plays and skill.", which isnt true at all. Everything else was just meaningless insulting of the topic. "Skill is the only thing that really matters when climbing, but luck makes you auto win and auto lose a huge percentage of your games", so luck can only delay climbing (which probably makes you have to grind), not deny it if you play good enough. Tell me whats wrong about that statement, because I havent seen anyone that can prove it wrong yet.
: If someone else got somewhere without luck, then why the hell are you bitching and whining about how this game is purely luck based? If he can do it, so can you, so can I, so can EVERYONE. The fact that you're telling me that playing a game which has NO factors of luck AT ALL, is purely reliant on luck, is bullshit and unfathomable. I've brought more than a reasonable argument, I've brought the thing called logic, there is no logic in believing that a game which has no element of luck AT ALL, is reliant on luck. You are an idiot if you seriously believe that this game even slightly relies on any sort of luck. It's reliant on your teams making smart plays, playing well, and making use of every aspect that the game has to offer, be it Baron or Wolves.
If this is "bitching and whining" for you, have fun in life. At that point youre just looking like a typical Riot fanboy to me. Again just bashing and insulting the topic without bringing 1 argument. "The game has no luck factors at all, youre talking bullshit, its logical that the game has no element of luck at all, you are an idiot,..." is not an argument, this is a pointless assertion which you cant prove, thus you just keep insulting? I mean, Ive said "skill is the only thing that really matters when climbing, but luck makes you auto win or lose a huge percentage of your games" often enough now, I dont see your problem with that? Its not like Im saying "luck holds you back from winning or climbing" or anything like that.
: What point lol? You never made a point saying he got there because of anything. > [{quoted}](name=Penns,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=Unq79fT4,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-17T21:45:15.585+0000) > If he has multiple accounts in Diamond, then he deserves Diamond, thats literally what I wrote. Where did you write this? I don't see anything other than "is this sarcastic LOL?" There's a much bigger reason that I don't get your point, it's because you make no fucking sense.
"Obviously XY player has multiple accounters in Challenger and can climb back there, or at least climb in high Dia quite fast"? Everyone should know that this applies for every elo, not just Challenger. If you got somewhere, without major luck, you should get back there pretty fast. If someone here isnt making sense, its you since youre just shittalking about this topic for no reason without even trying, or you just failed, to understand me and without bringing any reasonable argument...
: Honestly, it really depends what things you describe as luck and what things you factor into the luck argument. If you take a look at the whole state of Solo Q, then yes, i agree that luck plays a role. You might get someone with a bad day, someone who afks or has to afk for whatever reason. This is not something you can influence or do about. However, looking at the system itself, claiming that circumstances are how they supposed to be, means you have 5 equally skilled players with a normal mindset with not afks or other really heavy influences that impact the game in a negativ way, the luck factor is almost non-existent in my opinion. LEt's go with the assumption, that the situation is how you describe it: You are already in the elo you currently belong. Yes, at this point it's obviously grinding games to climb higher, not because you hope for good teams or other luck, but to improve yourself and climb again. You are not supposed to single handedly carry games at the elo you belong. Like how you're not supposed to play every song on an instrument without practicing it first. You might be at a level where you can just play a lot of songs at first attempt, but you will find songs, which you just can't. The mentality is the same for every competition. If you are an exceptional soccer player/team, you will rise in leagues. But there are barely any players who can just decide games by themselve when they already play at the level they belong. Only rare expections (in LoL this refers to the Proplayers) can consistently put out the same performance. Doesn't mean, they will always carry games when they are fed. Cristiano Ronaldo or Lionel Messi won't win every game for their team, same goes for every pro player in League who plays Solo Q. The closer you come to the level of skill you belong to, the more your own performance matters. A really good example in my opinion is Snooker, a cue sport. I'm not going to get specific about the sport itself, but everyone who has seen the best players playing the game or seen players of the same skill level play against each other, realizes, that it's more about not making mistakes but making plays. In Snooker, when a professional player makes a mistake and the other player has a good setup, then the Frame can easily be lost already. That translates to League a lot. If you have the consistency that you play on your usual level for long periods and you make less mistakes than your opponent, you will still win more than you lose. The difference between high elo and low elo is just that people tend to make a lot more mistakes in low elo and it's a lot more forgiving, thus the threshold and limit for mistakes is a lot lower in high elo. Same applies to the tatical aspect of the game. Counter picks for example are a lot less punishing in low elo, if the player just picks it for the sake of countering the enemy while not having any idea how to play it out. I high elo you can assume, that these players have a general idea of how to counter pick or at least pick something to put your enemy in a disadvantage. For example: If you fall behind in lower elos in lane, that doesn't mean the lane is already lost, since a lot of players just don't know how to play around a disadvantage/advantage. Higher elo players will know how to punish you when you fall behind. It is very likely for "bad" players to make mistakes, that will nullify the lead, like being overconfident, not respecting scaling, starting to roam/waste time or eben tower dive for no apparent reason. Whatever it is, it is likely to happen. That has nothing to do with luck tho, but with consistency. Making mistakes isn't usually a luck-based. If you play against an equally skilled player while you have an advantage, you should win. Same applies to your team mates and the enemy team. If you are super fed, but you still don't win, it can mean a lot of things, which are not related to luck at all. You might have put your strength into wrong places, your team didn't get enough ressources to have an impact, someone else just counters you as champion and so on. What i want to say is: Losses or wins under normal circumtances always have reasons, which you can determine. Winning a game with a disadvantage can either mean, you did more right than your enemies, i.e they made a lot more mistakes than you. Again, the same thing applies the other way around, when you lose with an advantage. **TL:DR:** Luck only matters if the game is played under circumstances, which are not intended (i.e there are afks, trolls, tilting people etc.) and when you factor the human mind into it. Other than that the system works and is not really luck-based imo.
It depends. If youre placed too low, luck doesnt matter too much because youre gonna win most of the time and if youre placed too high, youre probably gonna lose most games. But if you are where you belong, well...
: Hence why I said "He implies" I never stated I believed him, I merely made a statement based off of the facts he gave me.
"If he has multiple accounts in Diamond, then he deserves Diamond" I never said he got there because of luck. I feel like you just dont want to get my point.
: Nope, that's not true. Your team has a slightly less chance overall, provided you're not a troll or similar. Let's take it to the extreme and say it's just you and one person against 10 people. There's a much higher chance that one of those 10 will be toxic compared to the chance that your team-mate will be. It's the same thing in 4 against 5, just not as extreme. Really though that argument does work fine, it's basic probability. 4 people who have a chance of being toxic isn't as bad as 5 people who have a chance of being toxic.
Probability is still just a calculation, not law. But yeah, just looking at raw chances, youre right. Its still a questionable argument tho, in the end you have to assume that both teams have the same chance.
I 47 I (EUW)
: In other words you got lucky, went too high because of it, then dropped down to your correct league and are mad because of it.
Did you look up my profile or what made you make that assumption? Because I was constantly climbing with a ~54% win rate ever since I started playing ranked, so yeah..
: The problem with this community is that they insists to play a game with 9 other people and expect none of them to be a m@@@n, to got connection problem, of just be a poor player. That's a great part of the luck of this game, and it's unsolvable. The mitigation, however, lies in the fact that people tend to notice waaaaay less when the bad luck is not on them, but on the enemy. And of course none ever complain about that, i wonder why :D ? Whoever wants to play with less luck involved should by all means change game, and possibly opt for one will less players. I tend, however, to agree with the ones who say that, if you are a good player and NOT a feeder, than the odds favors you, cause your team got a one less chance to be awful, while the enemy got five.
"45% are losses, no matter what you do, but 45% are wins even if you dont do great" I complained about wins as much as I did about losses.
yowkah (EUW)
: Yeah i guess I'll give my 2 cents on the subjects on reading most your posts and most replies. For me, 90% luck 10% skill is false. I'll explain why as... well.. hopefully clear as I can. Someone already pulled the example of poker and I think that is a great example, but since the reference wasn't really clear let's take another game. **another example i guess** Let's say we are playing "pictionary" with 2 teams of 5 people. Every person gets to draw once, the others of his team have to guess. Now here is the difference between a bronze V and a challenger player.. 1 is picasso, the other has no hands and draws with a pencil in his mouth. besides that picasso can really see what you are trying to draw by the way you actually make your lines. the bronze V player calls you an asshat because clearly, blue wiggly lines with a star underneath it, means its a desert at night and that's the pole star. instead of it being a starfish, because otherwise the entire background would be blue, since starfish live under water after all. **now how does this apply to league?** > Lets say, you are in the elo you "belong", statistically youre as good as everybody else there. So roughly speaking, the game is 90% luck, 45% are losses, no matter what you do, but 45% are wins even if you dont do great if im an average pictionary player for my league, i will have decent guessing skills, and decent drawing skills. meaning that i will be a constant asset to my team. It doesn't mean my performance doesn't matter. if i have to draw a rabbit and it looks like a cat because his ears are too small, then i still contributed to the loss for my team. same goes the other way around, if i draw a rabbit perfectly including tail, big front teeth like its a friking picture from a picture book, then yay i carried my team and contributed to victory. **So now if the margin between a cat and rabbit drawing of mine is so small, i will not really climb rank that fast right?** well yeah. because your drawings are unclear or you absolutely suck at finding out what the other person is drawing, you will not climb easy... **does that mean it becomes kind of a grind?** yes and no. Yes because you have to play a metric shitload of games untill you improve at drawing rabbits, no because it helps you improve in the game to draw better rabbits. Once you start drawing these rabbits consistently you will be climbing again. **but what if i don't improve?** well that means you reached your limits or you have no idea what to improve at. you either ask others to coach you in the game, or you basically take your current league at heart and say "well, looks like i reached my limit". **so is this after all luck based?** well yes and no, ofcourse sometimes your team member disconnects and you miss a possible point in pictionary. But as you mentioned, that is the chances of this happening are the same as in the enemy team. If you have bad luck, you will have more disconnecting teammembers than opponents over a span of a lot of games. But hey, what game doesn't have this. Hell this shit even happens in football when a false call from a referee actually causes a red card, Or tennis when you friking break your racket during a serve. Shit happens right? However, this doesn't mean that you can't outperform the enemy even though you have this disadvantage more often, and hell no, the difference between these two stats are never on high enough level to cause you to halt ranking within a timely fashion. In no way does this type of luck influence your ability to climb fast, and hell no does it cause a grind. **my conclusion... also tl;dr** As explained above, grind is caused because of lack of decisive influence in a game. If you want to climb faster, improve in the game. How you improve is up to you, but if you are going to keep playing ranked even though you feel like you are stuck because you feel like "if my team was slightly worse, i wouldn't have won this", then it's probably you not learning enough or not improving enough to actually be a better asset to your team. That is not luck based. THAT is skill based.
Disclaimer: I just wrote a pretty big text, but then I accidentely closed it because Opera sucks :( Thats a pretty good example, just that it would have to be online Pictionary with a chat where most people rage at each other while they have to guess, that nails it ;D If everyone else youre playing with is just as good as you, you alone dont matter that much. Again,** Im complaining about undeserved wins as much as I am about undeserved losses.** I said it so often and Ill say it again: I am not talking about climbing either, Im talking about games in the elo you actually belong, where most people are just as good as you, skill difference doesnt really matter there. But if you are better than the people in XY elo, you will (most of the time) climb. There are 2 ways luck can influence your elo and game expierience. 1) You undeservedly lose more games than you should. If that happens, you just had bad luck and have to play many more games (grind) to let your skill really make a difference. 2) You undeservedly win more games and get put higher on the ladder. If that happens, you got lucky, but you will eventually lose more games and drop again. Both ways, luck doesnt really decide where you end up after many games, but it will be a huge part of your way to where you belong. It is a grind, it has to. 1 single game of League is basically 100% luck, everything can happen and you cant do jack shit. So you cant expect to get placed right after 10, 50 or 100 games, you have to play a lot more. I totally agree with the "luck based" paragraph. Also, there are 2 other factors that come to my mind, 1 of them I already mentioned. 1) LP. You wont get/ lose the same amount of LP for a win/ loss. This is (I think) based on how many games you already played in that division or something similar to that. Someone might get really unlucky in, lets say, Bronze 2. He might lose a lot of games there despite doing good most of the time. At some point, he will lose (way) more points than he wins ---> "elo hell". I for example get around 20-26 points per win in Gold 2 and lose only like 15 per loss, probably because I dont belong there but I dont play enough by far to really climb (I already did considering the fact that I started playing League in the middle of Season 4 and ranked somewhen in Season 5 (placed in Silver 5), so thats pretty good I guess... I hope :P) 2) The pretty big factor of overpowered stuff and matchups in general. Person A might be better than person B, but lets say he got countered and killed a few times in lane. Then he probably stays less useful than the guy actually playing worse than him just because hes fed or his champ is easy to play (cough). Ill quote myself from another comment: "its not exactly your fault if the enemy team first picked Elise/ Kayle/ bs like that and basically instawins." http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=Penns I played 5 rankeds in the last 2 weeks and "carried" 3 of them pretty hard, but 2 of them were still pretty close. So if I just got a DC on my team (the Cho actually dcd for ~10 min, but a longer one) or someone just got caught all the time, yeah, I wouldve probably lost them. Ps: Sorry that this isnt the greatest answer, like I said I deleted it and Im fking mad lol. Also, my first language is German and my only really good English teacher after like 10 years of school was the internet, so yeah :D
: ***
I just wanted to clarify things at least a bit for the few non- close minded people reading this thread, because luck plays a huge role in the game, but it doesnt influence your elo (most of the time), it just delays/ speeds up climbing. Also, I didnt even get started about the factor of op champs/ things like devourer. Like, its not exactly your fault if the enemy team first picked Elise/ Kayle/ bs like that and basically instawins.
: Yeah, I agree with the most part with your post. Now this'll probably come across rude, but this: >Please not this argument again.. You read it everywhere and its flat out false. Every player is "you". How do you know the enemy team doesnt have someone complaining about trolls? It seems plausible because, obviously you dont troll, so there can only be 4, but actually thats not true. Can you reword this somehow? I legit haven't got the slightest clue what the fuck you are saying here. Again - I'm not attacking you here at all, I just seriously have no idea what you're trying to tell me.
Im trying to tell you that both teams have the same chance of getting a troll/ feeder/... and that the "4 trolls on your team and 5 trolls on the enemy team" argument doesnt really make sense.
: Solo queue is luck based, yes. But not entirely, even though it seems like it. It's the same thing with trolls - if you yourself aren't a troll (or just never speak a word in chat like me), there's 4 people on your team who could be trolls, and 5 on the enemy team who could be trolls. So eventually, it checks out for the enemy team having a slightly higher chance overall. That same logic applies to your team-mates, provided you're somewhat decent at playing the game. But in reality, it takes so many games for this to happen that it always feels like luck. We can look at my alts' previous 10 games here, which is a small sample, so they'll seem like complete luck. I can remember these games fairly well, so I've put little descriptions in each one. Unfortunately though they are mostly positive - the negative games are a lot easier to explain why it's just luck, but this will do I guess. [Previous 10 (11) games](http://i.imgur.com/nyaxtwK.png) - - - - - Really though, I've had games where I'm like 1-9 and we've won easily, because the other lanes of the enemy team are a lot worse. Also games where I'm 15/0 but can't do anything because if I die a single time, the game is over, and the enemies are just as strong as me from the teams feed. Nobody can go against 5 people just as strong as yourself when this happens, if you have 4 people not doing anything useful. I really wish there was some kind of game like this where it was just solo playing, or maybe with just a friend. Unfortunately all of the "good" games are team-based now it seems (CS:GO, TF2, LoL to name a few), and all singleplayer games recently have been absolutely awful in my opinion. I hate having to rely on others for any reason, I just want it to be me and my skill, but I don't want the game I'm playing to suck. Whilst off-topic, something to mention - supports can't carry. I'm sorry dudes that disagree, but it really is true. I am awful at supporting, but in the **VERY rare** instance that I do well (because the enemy team is a lot worse than me for some reason), it's the most painful experience. I'll get a great positive score with a whole bunch of assists, but you can't do anything on your own. Like push a lane or something. And if you leave your "team-mates", they'll die. I end up losing against 5 players who are easily worse than myself and can't do shit about it, since I'm stuck with 4 muppets. If I was playing any other part I could probably manage to win the game. Worst experience for me when playing LoL, I'd say. It's so painful.
Please not this argument again.. You read it everywhere and its flat out false. Every player is "you". How do you know the enemy team doesnt have someone complaining about trolls? It seems plausible because, obviously you dont troll, so there can only be 4, but actually thats not true. Idk if you agree with my original post or not, but thats basically what I said. You can win even tho you did badly and you can lose even tho you got fed really hard. In both scenarios, you are not what determines win, loss and your elo (just in these scenarios, if you get fed + your team stomps, you deserve a win and vice versa, so you still mostly determine your elo unless probability is kicking your ass/ loving you, just to make that clear lol)
: Exactly. You haven't played enough of Hearthstone to talk about it like you know every inch of it. You felt like there was 0 skill to it because you've not played it for more than five minutes before making your judgement, you've not gathered loads of cards, you've not played ranked for a long period of time, you've done nothing but whine about how Hearthstone is based on luck based on what? You not finding it "skillful"? You've not even played the bloody game mate, how can you make a decision like that without even playing the game properly lol. It's like me buying a game and then, without playing it, I call it a shit game. There are games you don't like, and games you do. But don't tell me a game is based on luck because you dislike it.
Ive played the game for a few hours and found it everything else but fun. I watched quite some gameplays too, theyre pretty fun to watch. You know, Ill say it again: card games ARE more luck than anything else every Hearthstone player Ive seen complains about this very often too. In the end, its my opinion. I understand why people like Hearthstone, its a pretty good game if you got the time, dedication and money (kek) to play it.
Kaycee777 (EUW)
: They do...
Thats a good example, actually. LCS players dont lose many games in Bronze, because they can maybe make up for things like a DC, something which a Silver/ Gold player probably cant do in Bronze. But even tho they keep the luck factor small, even lcs players lose some games in Bronze due to simple bad luck. Both lcs and Silver player will eventually climb, luck only decides how fast.
: Hence the 25% luck bit. Having a bad draw for THAT long PLUS having your start hand bad as well is so unlikely it's ridiculous. Yes, you've said Hearthstone is a card game 50,000 times now. Except, in this game, you build your own deck, with your own minions, and your own spells. So, in theory, nothing in your deck is bad. Nothing at all. Which is why it takes skill to use the decks you made. If you want to blame every failure you have on "bad luck" then go ahead, but I want to learn from my failures, not be stuck in the place you are right now.
Ive said "Hearthstone is a card game" twice in my entire life, once in this thread, but ok lol. When I started playing Hearthstone, it really felt like there is 0 skill to it whatsoever. With mostly basic cards you have no diversity, all you do is play what you can play I guess (unless its something like a random fireball to the face but.. u know). Sometimes you have to make the right decision but that doesnt make up for the pure randomness of drawing cards.
: Hearthstone doesn't rely on luck. It relies on RNGesus. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) No but seriously, Hearthstone is about 75% skill 25% luck. It does NOT heavily rely on "randomness" as you so put it. But I'm guessing you've either never played Hearthstone or played it for a couple of minutes at best.
Hearthstone is a card game. You can have a good strategy and be the best player in the world, if you draw shit till turn 4 and your opponent gets a full board you probably just lose. Also, its really unappealing to new players since legendaries/ at least epic cards are mostly what makes the game diverse in strategy and gold is a pain to reliably get, so yeah..
: Yes. Yes it is. And I agree. You are wrong.
Id like to hear your opinion, because just saying "you are wrong" is not the best thing. If he has multiple accounts in Diamond, then he deserves Diamond, thats literally what I wrote. But Im talking about the games he plays IN Diamond with people that are as good as him, not the ones to get there.
: http://i.imgur.com/sqDkLAu.png Unrakned to Diamond half of loses were due to me going afk/int.feeding. Its not really luck based
"I do NOT agree with people claiming that you can play as good as some LCS player and still not climb in Bronze- Gold. Obviously XY player has multiple accounters in Challenger and can climb back there, or at least climb in high Dia quite fast, so thats nonsense."
TCU Dushi (EUW)
: Hello, I'll agree with OP that this game and especially SoloQ can feel like a "long grind" However, I'm quite certain that the game is not based 90 % on luck. There are no statistics proving how high or low the "luck factor" is and therefor claiming it to be 80 or 90 % is merely a uneducated guess. Riots current ranked system is designed to keep players at a 50 ~% winrate. Due to the "randomness" of team members and enemies there will be some abnormality for a small group of people. Some will experience the positive sides of the luck system and magically climb to a rating they do not really belong at skill-wise. Others less fortunate will be stuck or drop down to a rating beneath their actual skill-level. In the long run "luck" will even out and stabilize one's rating to the point that it will show their actual skill. Look at ranked luck as rolling a dice. If you roll enough times you will eventually get all 6 numbers a equal amount of times. How many times you need to roll the dice is somewhat difficult to determine. Obviously we can't all play 100.000 games a season to see if the numbers match up, but you get my point. When a system is in place to keep everyone at a steady win/loss ratio you will have to be X amount better than your current skill-group to bust through the ceiling. Aka, Promotion games. Solely existing to make sure we stay at the 50 % winrate. The only way to consistently climb the ladder is to continuously improve as a player at a more rapid pace then everyone around you. I strongly believe that this game, it's community and the way its designed is one of the reasons why climbing and "progressing" is so hard. People act snobbery (the attitude or behavior of someone who thinks they are better than other people) It prevents people from looking at what they did wrong, what they need to improve on or what is the most effective way to reach their desired rating. The classic "noob team/feeders/trolls" You could call it the easy way out. Not accepting ones own mistakes but purely blaming someone else to cover up the truth. If you want to climb the ranked ladder you will have to stop focusing on your teammates performance, you'll have to stop coming up with excuses as to why you are not climbing. If you want to get better, start recording your games. Every time you've played a game. a win or a loss, you will go over the replay. Either with a higher rated friend or alone and write down 10 mistakes you've made. As a example : lvl 3 kill in midlane that you used your flash for, was it really needed? How many times did i ward, How many creeps did i miss, Who did i focus in teamfights, did i position myself correctly, Was my item pathing optimal, did i overextend? You can ask yourself these and many other questions and you'll find out that there simply is not a perfect game. Even if you are 10-0 and completely destroyed the enemy team singlehanded, you could have done something better. Because maybe next game your mistakes or misplays will get capitalized on and the game snowballs against you. I'll end this thread by saying that, if you want to climb, get better at the game. This sounds awfully familiar and is hardly taken serious anymore. it's true though my dear Summoners. Best Regards, Dushi
Yeah, I said "roughly speaking", any random high number works I guess lol. Sadly I dont think you really got my point. I never said that its luck dependant when you are way better than your opponents and want to climb, I even wrote that I dont agree with people saying so. Luck doesnt really matter at all in the (very) long run since, like I said, it evens out at some point unless youre having really bad/ good luck. Skill just makes the luck factor smaller.
: I agree there is luck in SoloQ, but if you are stuck in a ELO and say LOL is luck based, you just belong to the ELO, or you haven't played enough games. (This is just an example, not directed to you)
Thats exactly what I wrote. I said that soloq is extremely luck based if you are as good as your opponents, not climbing.
: > [{quoted}](name=Penns,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=Unq79fT4,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2015-08-17T17:14:45.390+0000) > > It is luck based. I mean, what else would a 5v5 game be based on? Like I said, I complain about luck in general, not just bad luck. > IF you get fed litterally every single game you play, you will still lose at least 35-45% of the games you play, which is more than enough to carry but you still lose nearly half your games to a factor you cannot influence at all, which is sad :[ That is not luck, that is called losing. You lose because the enemy was better. It is no luck to get outplayed or to get outskilled. It is not luck that you did more mistakes than the enemy, or the enemy could capitalize on them better than you
Maybe if you are the one losing, but Im talking about forced losses because your team gets outplayed, if you do good or bad doesnt matter in these games and you know them too.
: But the luck in the game is towards you, you have a higher chance of winning than the Enemy right?
Technically there are as many free losses as there are free wins, so the luck doesnt really matter in the long run, its just a huge part of soloq and it makes you have to grind a LOT until you get to the elo you actually belong.
: It really isn't. If you take a small sample, it may seem that way. But the more games you play, the less "luck based" it gets. I know many people that complain about bad luck, and while I spectated them for a fair amount of games and they really DID get a lot of trolls, they only play very few games compared to me, who plays 3 Ranked games+ a day. Play more games. Git guuder =^)
It is luck based. I mean, what else would a 5v5 game be based on? Like I said, I complain about luck in general, not just bad luck. IF you get fed litterally every single game you play, you will still lose at least 35-45% of the games you play, which is more than enough to carry but you still lose nearly half your games to a factor you cannot influence at all, which is sad :[
: I agree, Solo Queue is luck only. Given I'm probably the luckiest guy on the planet all of my solo queue ranked accounts have been to Diamond or higher. But that's just me being lucky.
Is this sarcastic LOL?
: I'll give you an example of game with much higher randomness factor. Poker. It is a card game and it would seem an epitome of luck based gameplay. And yet, there are professional players who can consistantly come ahead and earn money. Solo Q is bit like that - you can't win every hand, but if you are skilled than in the long run you will climb.
I dont really know much about Poker, but Hearthstone is one of those games too, its heavily relying on randomness, but still has a fair competitive scene I guess.
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