: harassment under the turret while jgl farming.. !!
> is the jgl wrong by not going for the early gank so xerath at lesat try to play safe from ganks Yes > is the jgl guilty for the solo kills that xearth get by playing literally under akali turret ? No
: NERF Draven
260 armor is not really much and you can get like 5k hp on tanks. Ask your assassin to oneshot him
Vechthaan (EUW)
: So the added runeglaive damage is not included for crit damage? Sounds believable, but is there any source for this? I gues it's easy testable, but League has been dreadfull the past couple of days (holidays, huray), so I just cba starting a game just to test something. :)
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Sheen > If the attack is a critical hit, the bonus damage from Sheen item.png Sheen is not boosted. And same for other Sheen-based items
Vechthaan (EUW)
: AP GP parrley crit damage math feedback required.
Runeglaive deals 30% AP and 100% base damage and it does not crit. Thats 320 damage Parley deals 120+240=360 damage normally and 360x2.57=925 damage, it is converted to magical and added to runeglaive damage, that's 1245 damage. Adding 272 from statik and 37 from arcane blade we have overall 1554 damage. Thats not that huge and another thing is most of it is parrley on its own, adding all that AP didn't help much. You may consider getting Lichbane over Runeglaive(thats -25% basedmg and +20% AP, or 167 dmg, but without conversion and AOE and it gives more AP) or just go full AD/AP
: Make people kickable from pregame lobby?
If Riot would make this option it would be just a "safe-dodge" system, and it would be abused hard. "Hey, our mid got countered hard, lets kick someone and restart", "OMG, why did you picked that Zilean, you are trolling, lets kick and restart". So no. And try to climb higher in ranked, there are not as much trolls
Añïvïa (EUW)
: Selling mantle later still means you have no MR item, which is part of the point of this discussion. Also I entirely disagree that you would sell Athene's lategame since the 30% mana refresh is absolutely invaluable in a meta filled with tanks that don't die quickly. I also completely disagree with not having a zhonya, this item is one of the best in the game, the ability to get a 2nd combo out before egg has turned an incalculable number of 2-3 man ganks in my favour and resulted in many double/triple kills. Unless I spend 20 minutes without falling below 20% hp, I will always be buying a zhonya. With regard to Liandry, I feel you may have gone off topic here, since the thread is about mana regen items ^^. While I do like the item, and with it's buffs it is stronger now than it ever has been, it is incredibly situational, and should only ever be taken when playing against a team with at least 3 tank threats.
Well, out of 3 mana items(Athene, ROA, Seraph) you should choose 2, and unless playing against LB or maybe really good AP assassin i never will consider buying Athene. And if with that 2 items your mana ends before the end of teamfight-there is something wrong and you probably wouldn't get much kills/assists for Athene. You can also get {{item:3111}} if you really need some early magic resist(and if your team isn't full AP so they start early mres stacking). About Liandry, it is an item that actually helps with melting tanks and with that it makes fights shorter, reducing your mana requirement while also giving you some bonus health
Añïvïa (EUW)
: Thank you for your reply :) Buying the Null Mantle is certainly an option, but come lategame this leaves you with a hole in your build. You could get Abyssal, but it's aura is wasted since you generally won't be in range of more than one enemy to use it on. You could get a Banshee, but what item do you relinquish to allow space for it? Void staff is too important, so are Rabadon and Zhonya. You need Rod and Seraph, and your movespeed is far too low to make dropping boots a viable option. You can see why this is an issue for me ^^. With regard to WotA, with the recent changes it is certainly a more viable item on a wider array of champions, but in my opinion is not viable on Anivia. Her cooldowns are too high, and she only has 3 damaging abilities. As far as becoming unkillable goes, if you aren't being CC'd in teamfights, you are already unkillable, since your combined CC and damage will make mincemeat of anyone who makes it through the frontline to challenge you. If you are being CC'd, you aren't going to be able to make use of the spell vamp anyway. Just so you know, Anivia can in fact be played as an incredibly tanky utility champion, with items like Zhonya and Rod of ages comprising her core, and finishing the build off with Warmog's and Guardian Angel makes for an incredibly scary bird. Not a build for novice Anivia players, and I haven't played it in at least a year and a half, but it most certainly does work ^^.
You can sell Mantle later when you don't need it or if you have no space more. The problem with Athene is its high cost and low AP, so you will anyway sell it lategame, and Anivia does not scale that good with cdr. About WotA-well, i guess you are right. There is actually another recently buffed tanky AP item that could work great for Anivia's sustained damage and CC, {{item:3151}} . And I personally think Zhonya is not as great as it was before and can be replaced by any other 100 AP item
Añïvïa (EUW)
: Anivia - Mana regen options
Rod+Seraph is usually better choice, you can always take the {{item:1033}} for same mres as whole Athene and your mana problems will end with this 2 mana items. (this usually works for every mage with ROA an spell to stack tear) And just a question for Anivia player: Is making {{item:3152}} viable on her? She has great singletarget damaging ability and large AOE, combined with her passive, HP from ROA and shield from Seraph this will make her unkillable
: > [{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=dcsE4Ew2,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-07-16T05:54:40.499+0000) > > Ok, so lets compare him to xerath with same 700 AP and echo > Q-765 magic dmg, no runeglaive needed > W-600 or 907 if hit with its center(that happens every time you hit your E) > E-515 dmg > R-601 dmg PER HIT > And echo, same 170 > And you cant hide from Q behind minions, it can hit multiple chamions at once, he actually have some waveclear and CC, and he has no need for smite and >2k gold for runeglaive. And if Ez uses his E for damage in teamfight-he dies How often do you see people catching a Xerath? I see it quite often. Ezreal on the other hand, alot harder to catch. Xerath's Q needs to be wound up for it's full damage potential. This reduces his mobility. His R also forces him to remain stationary. Ezreal can do ALL this, while still being extremely mobile. Also, if you see an Ezreal E into the enemy team, report him. Ezreal can easily use his E in teamfights for damage.
> Xerath's Q needs to be wound up for it's full damage potential. And that is wrong, damage is the same always, only its range changes. > His R also forces him to remain stationary And he can do it from half of map range > Ezreal can do ALL this, while still being extremely mobile He can't, he uses his e either for mobility or damage. And someone like Maokai can easily chase him after E. His W has low range and is actually hard to hit. And on top of all that he is EXTREMELY weak in lane(pre-Runeglaive), even Kata and Yasuo are not that weak while laning. I personally won every lane against any AP ezreal and while he has tons of damage with items, every midlaner has
: The problem with AP Ezreal isn't runeglaive.
Ok, so lets compare him to xerath with same 700 AP and echo Q-765 magic dmg, no runeglaive needed W-600 or 907 if hit with its center(that happens every time you hit your E) E-515 dmg R-601 dmg PER HIT And echo, same 170 And you cant hide from Q behind minions, it can hit multiple chamions at once, he actually have some waveclear and CC, and he has no need for smite and >2k gold for runeglaive. And if Ez uses his E for damage in teamfight-he dies
: More Bro Skins for one champion per faction.
For Demacia, J4 could fit better I think Vi is perfect as we actually need some Bro with Brofist For Void we have Kassadin, Khazix and Reksai, but yes, Velkoz is better for his "I am squid shooting lasers and I have no idea how to play" And Nasus does not build Infinity, his Q damage does not crit. But make his weapon visually bigger with stacks is nice idea
: ?? I think in 1 or 2 more days, I would have seen a devourer amumu for real, so far ive seen Rengar, fiora, kayle, vayne, diana, twisted fate, shen
Rengar-well probably one of those who misunderstood the Phantom hit and thought something like "OP double Q" Fiora jungler? Lol. And what she needs is AD and pen, and probably some cdr, and she needs it FAST because midgame is her best time(read: buy warrior, not devourer) Kayle-ok Vayne-well, if she jungles-ok, if she is your ADC-well, enemies have freewin at bot unless she/her sup outskills them hard Diana-runeglaive is better for now, and magus was 2x better than runeglaive TF-ehm, it is the best jungle item on him, for some hybrid build(with nashor, gunblade, optionally botrk/wit's end) or even full AD+AS Shen without cinderhulk is 0.5 of real jungle Shen
: how to climb in league
I used your advice and picked Amumu jungle and got devourer but all my team flamed at me and then we lost and i got reported {{champion:32}} Why did you lie to me? Jokes aside, just oneshot that Yi with Malzahar/Annie/any other oneshotting midlaner's combo.
Mega Noob (EUNE)
: I have been matched against premade as a soloq in game builder...
Zealique (EUW)
: Teemo Omega Squad Skin and Homeguard
Homeguards are disabled when your shrooms deal damage. They also block cancelling in shop, as any damage dealing does
: Best moment in champ select...this probaby wont work, EVER again :D
I am captain and I said I'd like to go mid "Pls let me kata mid" "Ehm, ok, its not a good idea to go firstpick mid" "Pls dont ban kata" Kata is banned by enemy "****, nwm go mid"
Calderath (EUW)
: Why pick a squishy mage?
Well good luck oneshotting Xerath with his range that allows him to strike across whole teamfight while he can nuke your ADC for half HP with his 4 sec cd spell
: Riot has already made 0 counterplay. Morgana ult for example. Only solutions are invurnelability abilities and zhonya. And you know who is overloaded the most? Katarina. But yes hard cc shuts her down, and it does the same to my Urgot rework idea. 1 stun and Urgot might be dead.
Morgana's ult can be dodged by running away while CCing her or by staying out of its range. Her combo requires you to hit her Q. Same is right for Urgot now: his uncounterable array of Qs requires him to hit his E. With your idea you have tons of slow on autoattacks and homing Q that requires nothing. And stuns work on every champion in LOL aside from Olaf. Im not saying that it is bad or OP, in fact it is interesting, but in game it would be either OP or useless.
: The passive is applied on enemy and even when you won't manage to get the 2nd stack(1 stack is on the enemy only) then it will go on a cooldown. After the 6th stack the stacks break and the passive also will go on cooldown. And please... stop acting like Riot has never made any overloaded champions. Anyways thanks for feedback :)
Well your passive is more loaded than the whole Azir, and 0.5 Azirs for W and E(well, Ekko is also overloaded, but your Urgot is still like 1.5 Ekkos worth). The other problem is that there are too much stacking abilities lately. And the cooldown somehow explains a bit about your passive. The acid-based E is actually nice idea, however it should be balanced so the combo of your TONS of slows-acid on enemy-homing stunning Q will not just kill enemy squish with 0 counterplay aside from flash
: Well, maybe he won't burst others down so fast, however he can do it in a much safer range and + I'm pretty sure that when Urgot actually knows what he does, then he can easily "outplay" enemy adc's in a 1v1.
This game is not about 1x1 and if enemy Vayne/Draven melt your tanks faster then you melt their squishies, then there is a problem. And you actually have to hit your E or you possibly won't hit anything other than tanks(and with high cd Q you cant kill them fast)
: Well my rework idea is something like this. I diid proper details only on the passive. Tell me what do you think :) (you can skip his passive part if you want, it's the only long part) Looks - Urgot will look scaries, he might look scary right now too, but it's more like an ugly look. He should be a bit bigger and well idk somehow scarier :p his attack range will be still as small because his passive can be kinda op. Passive:**Sleep poison** - Urgot's basic attacks are blasted with sleep poison which makes his enemy(ies) sleepy. This passive upgrades at level 1/6/11/16. The posion doesn't hurt his enemies, but make them sleepy. Ontop of his basic attacks, Urgot will stack "sleeping poison" stack lasts 3 seconds and the slow debuffs last the same amount of time 1 stack: 5 / 6 / 7.5 / 10 % movement speed and attacks speed slow 2 stacks: stack 1 is refreshed and enemy will miss his next basic attack 3 stacks: stack 1 is refreshed and enemy will lose 5 / 10 / 15 / 25 Attack Damage( attack damage lowered for 2 / 2.5 / 3 / 3.5 seconds) 4 stacks: stack 1 is refreshed and enemy will have his armor and magic resistance lowered. - Ar 5 / 10 / 15 / 20 - Mr 6.5 / 12.5 / 18 / 25(stats lowered for 1.5 / 2 / 2.5 / 3 seconds) 5 stacks: stack 1 slow is doubled and the enemy will deal 15 / 20 / 25 / 30% less damage with it's next basic attack or non - ultimate ability 6 stacks: Urgot angers and breaks all his stacks. During this time, Urgots basic attacks will be divided to 45% magic damage 45% physichal damage and 10% true damage(means 1 basic attack will deal every kind of damage). Urgot also gains 5 / 12.5 / 15 / 20 movement speed when moving towards enemies, and will penetrate 1 / 3 / 4 / 6% of his enemy armor and magic resistance. Lasts 3.5 / 4 / 4.5 / 5 seconds. When Urgot loses his stacks no matter on what amount, then he can't apply his passive stacks on the same enemy for the next 5.5 seconds. However he can pick a diffirent enemy then. {{item:3085}} will apply only the 1st stack on the other 2 enemies and these stacks don't work on minions. Q:**Zaun Missle(s)**- Urgot launches a missle(s) out of his hand. The amount of missles get bigger with Urgot levels. Every 3rd time he uses this ability, he will fire a homing missle, which deals less damage and has a bigger range. W:**Horrifying Zaunite Rage**- When Urgot is damaged for "x" amount, he will be able to use this ability. Urgot rages and uses his Q, when it hits an enemy, it will get stunned. Urgot's range will go really short(melee) but deal a really much higher amount of damage than usual basic attacks and it will slow his enemy. E:**Acid puddles**- After a short delay, urgot will spit burning acid thru it's pipes into random locations in "x" range. When an enemy steps in it, Urgot will gain a temporary shield. The longer his enemy stands in the puddle, the more damage it will start getting per second. The puddle which an enemy has stepped in, will vanish after the enemy steps out of it. After leaving the puddle, his enemy will have grevious wounds for "x" seconds. After the ability is activated, Urgot will have his health regen, mr and ar decreased by a tiny bit. However his basic attacks will deal a bit more damage. R:**Hyper-Kinectic Position Reverser**- Urgot channels for a second, gaining a very strong shield and suppressing, damaging his enemy. When the duration ends, Urgot will swap places with his enemy, and automatically gain 6 stacks of his passive
Passive: on whom are sleeping poison stacked? If it is on enemies-then Urgot can actually keep his 6-stacked passive for eternity(6 attacks on one enemy-6 attacks on other-and so on) or not proc it at all. The passive is also overloaded with buffs/debuffs, so you should maybe remove some of them. And another problem is that it will make Urgot just_another_autoattacking_ADC_with_stacks while now he is more spell-based(like Ezreal). Q: well nothing actually changes aside from there is no more "hit E-press W-throw 3-4 Qs" combo, but he can now harras on lane without hitting his E(and that is what Riot calls "no counterplay") W: again, too overloaded, and its not like it is actually good. So what i got is: urgot is damaged, he uses W, it makes his next Q stunning, after that he has melee range and deal more damage, and slows(while he already does with his passives, and slows stack no more) E: same here. So he throws acid puddles at random(and random is not good) directions and if enemy stands in it-it will take rising damage over time and give Urgot a shield, and by itself Urgot gets debuff on his survivability while dealing bonus damage R-now gives him a shield and procs his passive So his synergy is: spam some Qs for poke, then he ults, his passive procs and then he uses his E in the middle of enemy team to deal more damage over time and gain shields, but he lowers his def stats. Then he takes some damage, uses W, stuns someone and fights as melee. And that is with 0 tank items and with Runaan(so it won't work while he is melee). Try to remove unneeded features from spells(especially passive). And try to think about his role in fight, should he charge in like a tank/bruiser, cast spells like a mage or autoattack like an ADC.
: well that's mainly the issue with {{champion:6}} since the guy is all over the place. He's in between tank and AD, and it is unclear which moment in the game does he excel at. :(
Well his shield compensates for his low damage, allowing him to stay in fight longer and deal more damage. And his huge range compensates for having low mobility. The only problems are his really low lategame DPS(not even talking about real ADC, even AD Ezreal outdamages him) and almost useless ult. With my suggestion he will be scary damage-dealer with his low-cd Q(not like real ADC, but he has more range) and his ult will allow him to cast some free Qs on stunned target as well as hit his E
: Ummm what? Lategame **IS** where he shines. Hit your E, activate {{item:3042}} and spam Q. Watch your enemy crying and trying to run back to it's base.
Can he 2-shot enemy ADC, mid or other squishy target? Other ADCs can, with crits Can he kill enemy tank in something like 3-4 seconds? Other ADCs can, with botrk Can he heal himself while autoattacking, like full hp after 3 seconds? Other ADCs can, with lifesteal items
: Urgot rework ideas
The only buff Urgot needs is some buff for lategame damage. Make Q cooldown decrease based on his level(-2% per level) and allow him to cast spells while ulting(but not move or attack). Or alternatively you can buff his early game. He does not really need mobility because he is tanky and he has great range
: Minor Shaco rework - (Buffs and Bugfixes)
Buff Q as you wish but REMOVE THE JUMP PART FROM IT. Its low-cd flash with invisibility, so leave only the invi part. Then you can buff the cd/duration/anything About clone-well, it is an ult that doubles your damage output and adds some time of confusion when enemy can damage clone but not you, and it also gives invulnerability for short time Zyra Plants are visible, their duration is shorter and the have no AOE fear. And somehow they cant be damaged by AOE spells if they are invisible. So if you can damage the box that means it already did its job. Poison could get some cast animation buff, cast range buff or slow buff, also maybe clone should cast it too(but on other target or without dealing damage, just so its not easy to find the real one)
ST Paws (EUNE)
: I just need some help here.
ADC page is usually red for AD, yellow for armor, blue for mres/mres per lvl and quints for AD/AS(AS is better for heavy autoattack based like Kalista, AD for caster ADC, like Graves, AD quints also help with lasthitting) There is no fully tanky pages, but usually you can use ADC page for AD-based tanks, or mage page(red for mpen, quints for AP, others are the same as for ADC) for AP-based, sometimes they also use movespeed quints or yellow hp/hp per level.
: First off, to NastyNipples below; Oh yeh, I enjoy this kind of stuff. As for the above; This Heat ADC, makes me think of a lad running around with a Heat-beam (or even a Ghostbuster Weapon, ha!). You could have his abilities as "systems", giving his basic attacks certain abilities when active? Might be a bit boring, and I'd rather see him have a phew of these abilities rather than just AA steroids; - An AoE slow that leaves an oil-slick area. Sprayed in a certain shape, this ability doesn't just start burning, but instead it ignites to cause a single instance of damage to anyone in the area. It only ignites when it is touched by one of your ignited targets. - Swings a heat beam in a frontal arc, damaging and knocking back enemies - I would love to see the 3-Molten-Pinballs Ultimate on something like an ADC. Would make jungle fights devastating while lane fights would have to be timed and planned for! As for his passive of increased damage; ok its different from MFs impure shot since it would work on how many attacks the user has made, not what target it is, but why not add effects like more range, piercing, splash damage or resistance removal? Better still, why not have him "overheat" at 100% causing a damaging blast around him, hurting himself most but Allies and Enemies only slightly, and reducing his own armor for a short time. Of course, to counter this, movement speeds up the cooling process? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh, this one may be shorter, but I do still like it. Healing Flames, Cauterizing and such. Of course, to stop trollers, the damage would have to be either minor, or the application of the buff must have a longer cooldown. But sure, if the buff is massive, maybe the chunk of health lost would be worth it? As long as the support can never kill the target of the buff (no giving kills as the winner walks back from a 1v1. no team kills on allies who have just survived ignite). With the cauterize thing; why not have it as a heal plus a debuff remove, so you CAN remove ignite, and other DoTs. Just be careful; DotA 2 actually has Oracle who's heal *does* nuke the target before applying a HoT on them (friend or foe) and also has an ability that works along side it that disarms the target, but prevents damage from being taken (so just his heal works) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quickly for your thoughts on my ideas; Well for the support Steam-User, it'd propbably use something similar to Cassiopeia's poison cloud and Brand's AoE explosion (Steam vents). You could combine them with the "Fire Serpent" User to have a kind of Healer who sprays a non-DoT damage Singed Cloud. In fact, you could have it as a conduit, it reacts to the casters other spells. But can be desipitated (incring small damage and a small blind) to break the chain? Hm, with the Burn Effect top laner, ok it might be a bit overpowered with a natural Sunfire constantly pushing waves, but surely the could make it just weaker. Plus, you just need to add flashy effects and moves so that it isnt boring as every AA is epic! :D
About heat-based ADC-yes, something like this. One spell works better for ignited enemies(oil-spray), other one works better when you are overheated(heat beam). Bouncing balls would be really hard to use in most situations while extremely OP in dragon/nashor fights and also this+J4 ult is death to everyone in. And overheat is not like Rumble's, it is a straight buff and you will try to maintain it. About damaging heal-first ability deals low damage on single target(non-lethal) while giving some buffs, but no healingm so overusing it will leave your teammate lowhp. To prevent trolling, you can make something like Thresh's lantern: support throws you smth(a torch?) and you click on it to take damage and get buffs. Second ability(AOE ulti) deals huge damage in large AOE(like 250/450/650 base) but it is nonlethal too and after damaging it places on all affected units heal over time, that heals double of lost hp for smth like 10 seconds. So it can be used as just AOE damage but if you didn't kill enemies it will heal them back, same with allies. As I know nothing in game removes Ignite now. And yes, I know about dota2 oracle and i used similar idea for ult The Fire serpent conducting spells is actually something great. Making a mage with low range spells but make the serpent so spells also can be casted around it and not just the caster. So Steam can be used in AOE around himself/serpent by casting Water spell around himself/serpent and then vaporising it with fire. And the ultimate can be reattaching a serpent to a teammate so it conducts their spells. Imagine Annie that throws her combo while 1000 range away. Of course serpent is visible to enemies(but not in steam, synergy!) and can be killed. For the top laner-I thought about VERY SLOW thing like Malphite(walking rock of a solidified magma), that heats himself with its spells or attacks while melting and increasing his speed, so the longer fight continues-the more speed(MS, AS) he has, and at max stacks he melts completely, becoming untargetable for a while(Vlad's pool) and damaging enemies in area while moving fast(like a hot magma flow)
xTharios (EUW)
: Seems like an incredibly slow build tho. Might not work in early/mid game comps. But I might try it sometime to see how it works.
Well I didnt try it and yes, it is weak in early, but if you think game will last long(and with 40% cdr xerath the poke is real), then why not? And seraph is 3rd best AP item now(first two are mejai and rabadon). And with shield and hp from rylai you are actually tanky. If you arent playing vs Zed(and you arent, lol) then there is no real need for Zhonyas. Void staff can be replaced by luden if nobody builds mres, but i doubt it.
xTharios (EUW)
: How to properly build xerath after the new AP pricings.
No cdr is a bad idea. Someone pls try tear-morello-cdr boots-rylai-seraph-rabadon-void
steb23 (EUW)
: Creative ability-based trolling?
Champion with "jump on ally" ability jumps to you with Fizz ult on him Use zhonyas after receiving Zilean's ulti And some self-trolling: Cait ults at low hp Kalista, lowhp support tries to save her and she ults at last moment
: > they are not cost-effective at all and to gain some gold with them you either should not lasthit minions by yourself( , ) or it does not give any gold by itself( ). Then let's just replicate that... increase the cost of jungle enchantments then raise the gold you get from killing monsters with the jungle item. That way laners have to dump a lot of gold into an item that's not that cost effective (and they already arent on their own) but junglers can get it with the increased gold generation (currently jungle enchantments are about 2200 gold so raise that to 3000 or so and raise the gold gain on the jungle item to about 45 instead of 30). And that might solve it, jungle items stay unique and laners can still buy it but they have to actually put down some real money for it while junglers get it just as quickly. > Phantom hit is actually great and I would like to see it on laners, I wouldn't... to get it on laners you have to remove the stacking component on it so it isn't useless and forgotten about and if you do that what is stopping junglers from buying it, that's a devourer that doesn't need stacking or is way quicker so buy that instead and get warrior enchant. That removes every weakness devourer has and you get a second enchant. And it's the same with everything... why would a tank buy cinderhulk if he can just grab a sunfire and a different enchant for more damage, same with the idea about lich bane and runeglaive. You are trying to stop jungle items from getting into lanes by making laning items which can easily get into the jungle to create an even bigger issue. And why can't junglers just get something unique to them, a jungler version of a champ is almost always going to be a worse version of their laning counterpart due to lack of gold so they need an unique item to actually make you want to play a champ in that role instead of in a lane.
The idea of adding gold generation with jungle items is actually good and it could actually work. About phantom hit-i already described in OP how i would like to see new "jungle devourer" and "laning devourer", and jungle version gets stacks really faster in jungle while lane version stacks faster in lane. So a jungler cant get lanedevourer and warrior because he will stack it for much longer then if you get jungledevourer. About cinderhulk-whole jungle item with cinderhulk costs less then sunfire so it is actually easier to get cinderhulk first. And laning items will always get in jungle because junglers can only get 1 jungle item. And junglers have something unique in some ways: junglers have to get their core earlier to provide some assistance for your team on all lanes and they have jungle items for this, that are cheaper than lane countrparts
: why no AD Support item ritoooooooooooo =[[[?
No AD supports=no AD support items. Take coin if you are ranged or shield if melee
Cnight (EUW)
: Ryze the most broken thing that ever happen to league
He has weak early game, if he wastes his passive proc he is useless and he also has low range. He also isn't really mobile and reliant on his spells so Chogath can work against him. And the best way to learn how to counter Ryze is to play him: if you win-you got free win, if you lose-you saw how to win him.
: I don't see a problem with laners picking up jungle items, so long as they aren't so OP that everyone is buying them.
Again, there are 2 problems with this: First problem is we have to balance this items both in jungle and in lane, and second is, as I arready said, "if an item forces you to get Smite and pay for the jungling passive and Smite upgrade and STILL be good on non-junglers that means something is wrong with it". And from the history of season 5 we can see that Riot can't balance it this way: at first we got Cinderhulk meta, when we only saw toplaner picked if he could pick Smite and get Cinderhulk, and then it was nerfed to what it is now: almost useless out of jungle and the only junglers taking this are the ones who can abuse its +% hp. Then we got Runeglaive meta, but it wasn't so bad because only Ezreal could abuse it, still Riot are going to nerf it to the point that nobody will take it. Now we have Devourer meta and it will be nerfed too, and nerfed to the point Yi would be the only viable champion for picking it
: Honestly I don't agree with the idea of copying items from the jungle for laners... instead keep the jungle bonuses unique but give it some incentive for non junglers to not get it (similar to the support items, they are unique but have draw backs which don't affect supports but seriously hinder other roles). Also runeglaive is losing the magic damage conversion and the aoe on anything other than monsters so it's now a weaker version of lich bane and devourer is extremely bad on laners... you have to stack it up by just getting kills so you won't be able to get it before 30-40 mins at which point you are behind due to a lack of a proper item. So it's not a problem.
Well the problem is gold-generating support items have REALLY large drawbacks: they are not cost-effective at all and to gain some gold with them you either should not lasthit minions by yourself({{item:3303}} , {{item:3301}} ) or it does not give any gold by itself({{item:3302}} ). At the same time the only difference between jungler and toplaner is where they are farming, any stats useful to jungler will also be useful to toplaner or other roles. And nerfing these items to only work fully in jungle(like with runeglaive) discourages buying them even for junglers. So my opinion is that jungle items shouldn't be nerfed that hard(like the PBE runeglaive which again kills any AP jungler just to prevent Ezreal from getting it, and devourer just has to be counterable by something other than 20 minutes of five-man invading, not nerfed). And while devourer is thought as bad for laners-it can be stacked in woods after something like lvl6, especially if your jungler didnt make devourer himself. And the idea of Phantom hit is actually great and I would like to see it on laners, not just junglers, so we won't get gutted toplane Yi, Shyv, Kayle and Aatrox just because their jungle versions are buffed greatly with Devourer
TTekkers (EUW)
: I disagree with the whole point of this thread - I think champions should be able to take smite and jungle items in lane if it's a good option, but that's an issue which no one on LoL can actually agree on at the moment. Anyway, the suggested changes are good and would have the desired effect except for removing devourer from lane, you could take your original idea of making it mejai's like and then just buff sword of the occult with the phantom hit effect to make a non-jungler equivalent to devourer. The last point is probably not needed, junglers seem in a pretty healthy place to me, not as strong as the solo lanes, but stronger than the duo lane in terms of XP while able to get ridiculous amounts of gold if they hard-farm and still able to get good gold by including several ganks into their game.
Well the main point was that if an item forces you to get Smite and pay for the jungling passive and Smite upgrade and STILL be good on non-junglers that means something is wrong with it. Taking Smite on lane should be a viable option by itself, not by having unique items bound to it. About adding Phantom hit to occult-well, I thought about it and there is a problem: Devourer synergies with itself(adding on-hit damage and giving AS to proc this damage, as well as Phantom hit double-proccing it) while Occult has no on-hits. About buffing junglers gold and exp gain-maybe you are right, but if all these changes would make junglers weaker-some buffs could work
Rioter Comments
: LeBlanc just bought
Q-W is your main pre-6 combo, use it to harass your opponent so you can oneshot him later After lvl6 try Q-ultQ-W(and another W to return if needed) with ignite. If enemy stays far away-you can try W-Q-E(pre-6) or W-Q-ultQ-E(after 6), but E is actually hard to land if you arent jumping right in his face For some nice AOE damage try W-ultW, but it is usually not enough to kill someone with full hp As for the tips: Your W and ult-W leave yellow- and pink-marked spots, you can return on any of them with recasting W or R Your Q and E have same damage, so if you got someone with E then its usually better to cast ult-E while he is rooted, followed by Q-W Be careful where you jump. I once had enemy LB with half hp jump in a creepwave where I was casting Xerath's W, so she just died Also know that once you used your W you are really vulnerable to ganks Your passive's clone can be controlled, but it deals no damage and cant cast. That means you should only control it to confuse your enemies. However, casting any spell will show your enemies which one is real In teamfights your job is to take down a dangerous low-hp enemy(mid, ADC) so you have to jump in the middle of their team, so do your job quickly and jump back If you are playing vs a competent Chogath-well, you have a problem. Newer ever jump in his face if he didnt waste his W And the last one: be ready for some flame like "OP noob champ" and the likes
: -Magma/Semi-Molten Rock CC Mage? Molten Hands root targets? -Steam-Based Assassin? With Blinds? Or maybe even a combination of 2 Fire Skills and 2 Water Skills that give special effects when used on top of each other? -A Fire-serpent wielding Support? Like the one Dumbledore uses in the The Half-Blood Prince? And maybe he can create walls that tampers with enemy projectiles, damages any enemy that goes through? Maybe it will "ignite" allied projectiles? If not, maybe he can use the serpent like Orianna can use her ball? -Bruiser Top laner that has an inbuilt Sunfire Cape as his passive? Uses Magma to push and pull enemies, however the magma is fast cooling so that it will form short-lasting walls? -A Jungler that can fire off "Pinballs of Fire" that bounce around lanes for a short time, maybe gaining in damage? And then has an ultimate that vomits a long stream of Lava out, slowing and damaging enemies that stay in it? Maybe that same ability will follow a running liquid like effect, so that it will splash and lap off walls etc BUT as lava it will cool and root champions that stay in it for too long. Even better, maybe the root is instant if used in River or if the effected area is hit with a water based spells (water based skins included?)
A steam idea is actually something interesting. As for me, it looks more like idea for support that is based on area denial, however asassin can work too(something like invisibility in his own steam) Magma CC Mage is either Malphite or Brand/Annie The fire-serpent user can actually work, but he actually has to "support" in some way, not being another Annie/Zyra with nothing but CC+damage. Wall that damages enemies can also work, but igniting of projectiles isnt a good idea as for me(wall either hurts enemies or buffs allies, not both) Bruiser toplaner with burning effect will be boring I think. The creation of walls is something interesting, but it will be either too strong or too weak based on how it works on teammates Cooling the lava in river can actually work(dont forget that fights for drake/nashor usually start there), but not with water-based spells of other champions. As for some ideas I got: 1-an ADC with some "heat system" so if he autoattacks for some time, his attacks become stronger and with enough stacks will put a target on fire, and other spells having bonus effects while he has this fire attacks or when affecting burning target 2-a support that is based on damaging his allies with his spells to place some buffs on them(like dealing %current hp damage to ally champion and he gets +MS and damage or ultimate-AOE damaging spell, with a huge damage but it also places heal over time on any champion affected so it then heals twice the damage)
Rayz019 (EUNE)
: Taric has no stickiness apart from his stun, and his passive really does no damage.
Thats why Tarics usually build {{item:3025}} and some other cdr items like {{item:3401}} and cc items like {{item:3143}} . His passive is like old Ryze passive, but with 2 sec reduction and bonus damage(yes, its low, but with it he is like armor-styled Galio) so you can E-AA-W-AA-Q-AA-R-AA and most likely cd on E will be off, so you will stun again and thats with permaslowfield
Rayz019 (EUNE)
: Not saying Irelia is broken or OP, but Taric's stun is kinda useless since you can dash to safety before it reaches you, seriously it's so fucking slow.
And I am not saying anything too but Irelia's stun is melee and if Taric gets in melee range his stun will also work instantly. Its just that he has no dashes or something like that, but if he has some items and he somehow comes close-you cant escape without something like flash-over-the-wall or being a Kalista
Mecar (EUW)
: so only ADC can counter other ADC ? Fuck 99% of the melee champions, right ?
Well if you are playing in an elo where no mage cant use his spells on Kalista, no point-click CC is ever picked against her and she didnt get ganked at low lvls-yes, your ADC is the only option left. And of all melee champions I can name some who work good against Kalista: Pantheon, Maokai, Malphite, Rengar, Fizz, Zed, Talon, Akali, Diana, Ekko, possibly others. There is so much counters to ADC in general and Kalista in particular that I personally think of ADC as hardest role in game
Mecar (EUW)
: Yeah except, if there is any enemy near kalista, any good player (anything above silver) will actually knows how to dodge skillshots, especially something as easy as Xerath's ultimate or Q. And veigar was gutted because his Q and stunwall didn't have "counterplay" just like i was saying in the title.
Well then you can just take any other ADC (Draven, Vayne, Graves) and 2-shot Kalista because she cant dodge autoattacks and she also cant outdamage them. She also has weaker laning compared to most other ADCs
: it does not have to be a mage. It can be mhhhh. let me think.. Maybe an Ionian martial artist wielding fire-imbued sword?
Well we have Kayle for "flame sword" thing and Shyv for "flame fist", but it can actually work. You can look at Xin from Dota, while fire-themed, he is not "burn people" styled, but rather "dash around the screen while striking fast and protecting himself with fire shield"
ST Paws (EUNE)
: We need it.
Pls no, not another "fire mage that burns things". Shyvana is not really Fire user, she is just a dragon so its ok with her espesially when most her damage is autoattack based. If you can make fire-styled champion who is not just burning enemies with his spells then maybe it could work. Look at ice-based champs: mage-asassin {{champion:127}} , AOE CC mage {{champion:34}} , ADC {{champion:22}} , support with shield {{champion:201}} , jungler-support with snowballs and damage {{champion:20}} , another jungler with tons of CC {{champion:113}} and they all look different, while Brand and Annie are both "burn people with your combo of spells"
Coxis (EUNE)
: What if you eat an enemy and an ally ults?
It is the same, eaten unit is invulnerable (it is placed in stasis like with Zhonya or Bard's ultimate), but enemies will take damage from Regurgitate
: Eating as Tahm
Eaten ally takes no damage from any of this. And Lux ult isnt global
Mecar (EUW)
: It's impossible for a mage (especially a non-tanky one) to be in range of a good adc considering you must get rid of their tanks first. But I do agree on the master yi one tho. It's still possible for her to kite you (which is so stupid) if you don't have botrk or slowing smite.
Well I am maining Xerath and with his range he can two-shot Kalista if she tries to stay in fight, however this usually ends in "which team has more/better tanks". Any assassin with gapcloser can also work, and, while I didnt try it, Veigar should completely counter her with his wall
Daveth96 (EUNE)
: Is Ekko really that op?
No he is not overpowered, just usual AP assassin. And I never had any problems with him on mid since his release
Mecar (EUW)
: Many champions (Poppy, olf olaf, old eve) were gutted because they have lack counterplay
Pick a mage Throw skillshots at her while she kites your tanks and moves predictably Kill her After 5.13 Pick master yi Farm devourer and stack it to sated Ult, activate true dmg Kill her
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Posui Gart

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