: A better way to deal with Irelia
The important part of the W change was the cooldown increase, not the damage reduction. If you play Lux against her and Q her, she Ws, and you just dont ult at all (or else waste it). If you later Q her again, she used to have her W back up. But now, if you dont wait too long, you can Q her while its not back up yet, creating an opportunity for you. Besides, why does everyone complain about her Q heal? If I were to nerf Irelia I would do the following: Remove her passive attack speed, reduce the base damage on the passive and her Q (also the bonus one on minions) while increasing the scalings. This *should* put her in a spot where shes really weak early on (especially because shes vulnerable to getting ganked), but has a strong scaling late. It would also force her to build another attack speed and an AD item instead of just Trinity + Tank Hydra (+GA later) and then building tanky, which makes her squishier and easier to kill if you catch her out later.
Eclectic (EUNE)
: What I wrote was just meant as a brief example. Yes, you are correct; why should her passive do these, her q do that much of those, her stun cover that far of a distance... This kind of thinking that a rework should always come with overloaded kits to feel different causes more problems than solving them. Today I hear Riot is rethinking the Akali rework as well which is also overloaded. I even saw a video from an akali streamer kind of requesting Riot to revert Akali as it is un-fun to play against and for that mostly banned, etc. A champion having a certain "mechanic", if you will, needs to always be realistically evaluated to see if it is healthy. Again, another example would be Jax which they are trying to nerf I guess. The problem with jax is that his E is on almost no cooldown when he has R and Essence reaver and you won't get that much opportunity to play around it; actually, let us look at it this way: when you channel Pyke's Q, you wont be doing something else, Vi's Q, Sion Q, etc. correct? So, why should Jax become almost immune to damage channeling his E for a couple of seconds while also dealing that much damage? No matter how long something has been around, there is always a need for reevaluation to make the game feel better. Just as you kind of said yourself, little things add up until they become broken.
Nice list you put there, because: If I play top, I always ban Jax, for exactly that reason. Not only is his E absurdly op against champs that actually need to autohit, but he also gets free tank stats from his ult. All he needs is some health and hes insanely tanky with his R + E, while being one of the strongest late game carries at the same time (his E even reduces the damage he takes from AoE too...). If Akali happens to be on the enemy team, and Im on a champ that relies on autohits, I always do my best to completely avoid her, unless were in a 3v2 or 2v1 situation. When I wrote that "Irelia isnt op" stuff I kept comparing her to Jax, Akali and Yasuo, which are imo just way more problematic. For Yasuo: He very frequently gets played toplane, and even against champions where his W does absolutely nothing, once he gets to 2-3 items (PD, IE, Frozen Mallet), he usually wins the 1v1, while also being insanely annoying with his Q harass early. So: Why does he get to put up his stupid Wind Wall? I tried to play Twisted Fate once and had to play against him, and all he did in fights later on was dash around, putting up the W in my face, and I was like "might as well go afk right now". If he didnt have that, it would barely change anything on top lane, and it wouldnt make him a free kill all of a sudden mid lane either, since hes still super-mobile and able to dodge a lot of skillshots easily, all it would do is make some champs (like TF) a playable choice a against him. I mean what is he? Tank-Shredder, Hyper-Carry, Assassin while still having CC and Utility with his W? (And guess what, against Irelia, TF cant do anything in lane I guess, but you can stun her later on so your team may kill her, which you cant do properly against Jax, Akali, Yasuo, plus: you can actually gank Irelia).
: Yeah lets judge irelia over gold elo games... {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
So I guess the only games that matter are Dia+ games? And thats why in Diamond+, the game is totally balanced and Sejuani doesnt happen to have 38% winrate right? In Diamond+, Irelia has a lower winrate than at average (47.6 vs 48), so overall she should be slightly better in my elo. Youre gold yourself, what are you trying to tell me here? That you, me and other gold players are all %%%%%%s with zero understanding of the game? That our games dont matter at all and riot should look at nothing but LCS to balance the game out?
Eclectic (EUNE)
: The problem with Irelia is having an overloaded kit for no reason which forces Riot to play with numbers to no avail. Just ask yourself: why should she heal up with her Q while also one-shotting minions with it and getting Q resets from it and then also dashing in and out with it? And of course there are the Q resets with her other abilities as well. Does one ability need to have that many features built into it? Now please think through it logically and don't just write that this is her kit. The point is that when you make an overloaded kit like that, it becomes almost impossible to balance since it is not solely the numbers that make her OP but mostly the overloaded kit.
I ve heard the "overloaded" part before and agrreed, but what makes it overloaded is the passive attack speed and not the q, right (thats what ve heard before)? Whats the problem with the Q? The heal? Yeah thats a bit overloaded I guess, but it was present on the old one too, just on the W. One shotting minions was possible before the rework (if you actually built some ad), resets were there before the rework as well as the dashes. And the resets from the other abilities? If you take that away you basically have the old Irelia again?! Personally I wouldnt have any problem with that tho... I mean: Imagine the old one would have had that attack speed bonus. Or the new one wouldnt have it. Removing the Q heal wont stop her from 100-to-0 you at level 2, but removing the attack speed would.
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Psychosîs

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