: ur taking away in many of these champions wat makes them unique. and btw dont even THINK i didnt notice how u chose to buff ur main (maybe not main but i know u like the champion) karma. KARMA is and always has been a VERY strong support a god dam beast of AP in the mid lane poking down and erasing squishies everywhere. she does not need a buff like that and if u werent biased like u are ud be the one complaining if she had an instant snare. edit: and the changes u propose are clear indicators that u dont know the champions. u are proposing to nerf things which the majority of low elo players complain about but there is a reason for this. they complain cuse they dont know how to counter them and u dont seem to either. even le blanc is easy to counter wen shes fed if u know how to build around it.
> [{quoted}](name=LadyParallel,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=MqEsUtau,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-12-09T11:23:21.141+0000) > > ur taking away in many of these champions wat makes them unique. and btw dont even THINK i didnt noticw how u chose to buff ur main (maybe not main but i know u like the champion) karma. KARMA has and always has been a VERY strong support a god dam beast of AP in the mid lane poking down and erasing squishies everywhere. she does not need a buff like that and if u werent biased like u are ud be the one complaining if she had an instant snare Maybe I want it for a more defense means, not to abuse it, so I can stop {{champion:64}} from constantly sticking to me with no effort.
: A flash or dash is not even enough to break Morgana ult. You can also always flash after them to get the stun off. It's called counterplay and you are begging to get it on some other champs, so why do you propose changes that would remove counterplay just because you play that certain champ? Bias. I think you should get yourself checked. Ever since that "Give UK only server, I don't want to play with foreigners" and the rant about "all these immigrants" thread I just can't take you serious anymore.
> [{quoted}](name=Arcytaku,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=MqEsUtau,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-12-09T11:18:59.986+0000) > > A flash or dash is not even enough to break Morgana ult. You can also always flash after them to get the stun off. > > It's called counterplay and you are begging to get it on some other champs, so why do you propose changes that would remove counterplay just because you play that certain champ? Bias. > > I think you should get yourself checked. Ever since that "Give UK only server, I don't want to play with foreigners" and the rant about "all these immigrants" thread I just can't take you serious anymore. I don't care if you take me serious or not, I won't stop, I won't shut up... not until AP and AD champions are EQUAL and not one more powerful and easier then the other.
QueenD88 (EUW)
: Fantasy Patch Notes
and this is MY ideal patch notes, feel free to post your own because I'm pretty sure it will be a load of AD love.
Kageryu (EUW)
: Considering hate is a VERY strong emotion and that i barely talked to you on the forums, yea i wonder. If you would not like me or see me as someone antagonistic, i could understand. But hate? Nope.
> [{quoted}](name=Kageryu,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=MqEsUtau,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-09T11:09:42.729+0000) > > Considering hate is a VERY strong emotion and that i barely talked to you on the forums, yea i wonder. > If you would not like me or see me as someone antagonistic, i could understand. > But hate? Nope. No, I pretty much hate you and everything you stand for... sorry.
: > [{quoted}](name=QueenD88,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=MqEsUtau,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2015-12-09T11:06:27.124+0000) > > That isn't a huge buff for Karma, why do I need to wait around when {{champion:25}} and {{champion:1}} can do it instantly? > > If it was a huge buff, I'd double the damage on SoulFlare, yeah its fine as it is. Karma has the longest snare in the game, it is point and click. Morgana has a slow moving projectile skill shot and Annie has a STUN.
> [{quoted}](name=Arcytaku,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=MqEsUtau,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2015-12-09T11:10:20.496+0000) > > Karma has the longest snare in the game, it is point and click. Morgana has a slow moving projectile skill shot and Annie has a STUN. Morgana has Soul Shackles which is a multi-target version of Karma's snare at equal range and believe me, that amount of dashes people have these days, you might as well not both leveling it or using it.
: > [{quoted}](name=QueenD88,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=MqEsUtau,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-12-09T11:05:10.659+0000) > > I don't believe in giving compensation to champions that don't need it. > > Both {{champion:64}} and {{champion:157}} already have enough, just look at their pick rates and why everyone hates them. If you entirely remove Yasuo's passive, at least give him a new one. You know, champs without passive do not exist. They get picked because they are fun to play and not entirely bad. If you nerf them for no reason they become just horrible and nobody would play them because it would mean losing the game. They do NOT have enough. Lee already has his downsides and Yasuo? His kit in general is really weak because of his passive already.
> [{quoted}](name=Arcytaku,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=MqEsUtau,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-09T11:08:43.952+0000) > > If you entirely remove Yasuo's passive, at least give him a new one. You know, champs without passive do not exist. > > They get picked because they are fun to play and not entirely bad. If you nerf them for no reason they become just horrible and nobody would play them because it would mean losing the game. They do NOT have enough. Lee already has his downsides and Yasuo? His kit in general is really weak because of his passive already. I'm not inventing a new passive for a champ I don't care about or has been a toxic king for the last several months... I'm not hiding the fact that I think he never should have been designed this way in the first place and that CertainlyT is an idiot.
Neonchan (EUW)
: Basically you got rekt by a Yasuo + text?
> [{quoted}](name=Neonchan,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=MqEsUtau,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-12-09T11:07:57.330+0000) > > Basically you got rekt by a Yasuo + text? No, Yasuo is just a problem to everyone... I personally never really encounter him because I play draft and support so I'm either never in lane with him or he gets banned, which he does a LOT but that doesn't stop him being a cancer in this game.
Kageryu (EUW)
: Gotta be quicker :p
> [{quoted}](name=Kageryu,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=MqEsUtau,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-12-09T11:06:06.047+0000) > > Gotta be quicker :p and you wonder why I'm negative and I hate you people so much?
: Give compensation at least.. You have no idea of balance. Doesn't surprise me that you give Karma such a huge buff. Do I smell bias? :)
> [{quoted}](name=Arcytaku,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=MqEsUtau,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-12-09T11:02:27.517+0000) > > Give compensation at least.. You have no idea of balance. > > Doesn't surprise me that you give Karma such a huge buff. Do I smell bias? :) That isn't a huge buff for Karma, why do I need to wait around when {{champion:25}} and {{champion:1}} can do it instantly? If it was a huge buff, I'd double the damage on SoulFlare, yeah its fine as it is.
: Give compensation at least.. You have no idea of balance. Doesn't surprise me that you give Karma such a huge buff. Do I smell bias? :)
> [{quoted}](name=Arcytaku,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=MqEsUtau,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-12-09T11:02:27.517+0000) > > Give compensation at least.. You have no idea of balance. > > Doesn't surprise me that you give Karma such a huge buff. Do I smell bias? :) I don't believe in giving compensation to champions that don't need it. Both {{champion:64}} and {{champion:157}} already have enough, just look at their pick rates and why everyone hates them.
Rioter Comments
: Become one with your champion...
{{champion:267}} - playing while sat in a paddling pool
Bombardox (EUW)
: Why do i have to ban yasuo and zed because of that ?
Because people hate them because of how cheesy they are and because Riot love them and never really nerf them or the items that they use so yeah, people will ban them because we would all prefer if they did not exist.
DireXcon (EUNE)
: This is why I have trust issues in Riot.
Yeah, I noticed that too... its so Riot can defend {{champion:157}} and {{champion:24}}'s current level of power because they love them so.
chill22518 (EUNE)
: What is your favorite ability in the game?
duckarp (EUNE)
: I'd rather play with "deluded people" than with toxic haters. Also, not sure if this is your main account or not, but calling annie and vayne "easy" champions suggests you're not experienced enough. You seriously compare two champions based on how many hits it takes for them to stun an enemy?? Are you cereal?
> [{quoted}](name=duckarp,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=tc0UAEAZ,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-12-07T17:21:56.004+0000) > > I'd rather play with "deluded people" than with toxic haters. > Also, not sure if this is your main account or not, but calling annie and vayne "easy" champions suggests you're not experienced enough. You seriously compare two champions based on how many hits it takes for them to stun an enemy?? Are you cereal? No, Annie has two stuns which are point and click, Zilean has one stun which is a skill that you can miss. Which one's better... do the math.
duckarp (EUNE)
: Why {{champion:26}} can prevent people from dying? He's basically a free guardian angel roaming around the map. You compare one attribute/skill and call it final, yet fail to see the whole picture.
> [{quoted}](name=duckarp,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=tc0UAEAZ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-12-07T17:18:58.093+0000) > > Why {{champion:26}} can prevent people from dying? He's basically a free guardian angel roaming around the map. > You compare one attribute/skill and call it final, yet fail to see the whole picture. Believe me, his ultimate is not that useful if whoever revives just gets stunned by Annie's free 4th Stun again or whatever crowd control the enemy team has. He isn't even being used at LCS level at the moment.
Kolfin (EUW)
: Like i said, you have a HUGE problem. Stop spamming the forums with useless posts.
> [{quoted}](name=Kolfin,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=tc0UAEAZ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-12-07T17:08:46.699+0000) > > Like i said, you have a HUGE problem. > Stop spamming the forums with useless posts. Why do I have a huge problem for asking why Annie gets to have huge burst and a free stun on every 4th attack FOR NOTHING when {{champion:26}} needs to land BOTH his bombs on a target for an AOE Stun with Annie already has with Tibbers? That is just common sense... Annie takes less skill then Zilean does but gets more benefit... why? Explain it to me if you think you are so far above a "simpleton" like me. Explain how that is fair?
Rioter Comments
Kolfin (EUW)
: You have a problem. A HUGE problem. Stop posting on the forum please, it's not funny anymore.
> [{quoted}](name=Kolfin,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=EGha2oXM,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-07T16:24:00.154+0000) > > You have a problem. > A HUGE problem. > > Stop posting on the forum please, it's not funny anymore. I have a problem with champions that are protected by Riot, yes... favoritism is never a nice thing to deal with.
QueenD88 (EUW)
: Why are Riot incapable of admitting favoritism?
I love how this is getting downvoted by the usual Lee Sin fanboys
Kolfin (EUW)
: He was banned because he was dumb. _Very_ dumb. And he was banned because of his behavior, like you some days ago for other reasons. You and XJ9 don't know the meanning of the word "respect". I don't know what is the purpose of your thread, what did you expect ? A change just because you, a perma-banned player on multiple account, write it on a forum ? What about NO ?
> [{quoted}](name=Kolfin,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=EGha2oXM,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-12-07T16:19:55.310+0000) > > He was banned because he was dumb. > _Very_ dumb. > > And he was banned because of his behavior, like you some days ago. No, he was banned because he was right. Whats the point of playing this game when one champion sits above all others and has a simply more flexible and varied kit then others?
Mecar (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Neonchan,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=EGha2oXM,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-12-07T16:06:04.511+0000) > > " > v4.20 > Base armor and base health regeneration are going down slightly. > > "We've made enough jokes throughout the patch notes at the expense of Lee Sin's constant dominant power, but we're making some small pre-emptive modifications just in case. Aside from Kha'Zix (for which we have changes), Lee is still a jungler who has the potential to be very oppressive in the early game, so we're tuning up his weaknesses by a small amount." > > General > BASE ARMOR: 26 ⇒ 24 > BASE HEALTH REGENERATION: +9.4 health per 5 seconds ⇒ +7.425 health per 5 seconds > v4.15 > "Part two of three. Around here is where most would make a joke about Lee Sin being blind. We will not." > > General > BUGFIX: Fixed a bug where abilities that give true sight of enemy champions would reveal stealth wards under certain circumstances > v4.13 > Lee's shield duration got cut in half, and Cripple no longer reduces attack speed (only movement speed) > > "Like Elise, Lee Sin has a ton of strengths and few weaknesses, so it's equally tough to find the right direction to take him. In this case, after considering a lot of player feedback about Lee Sin's identity as a high-pressure early jungler who falls off late, we're maintaining that direction in our changes (specifically through the late-game falloff on his survivability and utility)." > > General > BASE HEALTH REGEN: 6.95 health per 5 seconds ⇒ 8.95 health per 5 seconds > Safeguard.jpg W - Safeguard > SHIELD DURATION: 4 seconds ⇒ 2 seconds > Cripple.jpg E - Cripple > "REMOVED" NEVER SKIP LEG DAY: Cripple no longer reduces enemy attack speed (only reduces movement speed) > v4.5 > Safeguard's cooldown will be cut in half if Lee Sin uses it on an allied champion or himself. In exchange, Safeguard's cooldown has gone up and will no longer give Lee a shield if he dashes toward a non-champion unit. > > "Even though he was designed to be a high-risk early game champion, Lee Sin can get around making risky plays because of his high mobility and early game base power. We were considering some larger changes to give Lee more early game risk and a way forward into the end game, but your concerns that we would be heavily altering some of Lee's core play patterns (which wasn't our intent!) helped us decide that we should slow our roll. These changes mean Lee will need to take more risks in mobility but don't touch his overall power curve. They also give Lee a real reason to play with his teammates rather than inanimate wards." > > Safeguard.jpg W - Safeguard > COOLDOWN: 9 seconds ⇒ 14 seconds > "NEW" UTILITY: Cooldown reduced by 50% if cast on Lee Sin or an allied champion > SHIELD DURATION: 5 seconds ⇒ 4 seconds > "REMOVED" UTILITY: Lee Sin gains a shield when Safeguard is cast on non-champion units > IronWill.jpg W - Iron Will > DURATION: 5 seconds ⇒ 4 seconds > > v3.15 > Summary: Safeguard no longer shields minions or makes wards invulnerable when Lee Sin dashes to them. > > "We like that Lee Sin could make cool plays without relying on teammates to Safeguard to, but felt we could trim some of his extraneous power without removing the real ‘fun' of it." > > W - Safeguard > Now only shields the target if the ally is a champion > > v1.0.0.154 > Safeguard > Fixed a bug where the tooltip incorrectly stated that > Lee Sin regained energy when the shield was broken > Iron Will > No longer grants armor while active > Life steal and spell vamp increased to 5 / 10 / 15 / 20 / 25% from 5 / 9 / 13 / 17 / 21% > Cripple > Slow amount reduced at earlier ranks to 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 / 60% from 30 / 37.5 / 45 / 52.5 / 60% > Range reduced to 600 from 800 > v1.0.0.152 > > Base Movement Speed increased by 25. > v1.0.0.139 > > Iron Will > Life Steal and Spell Vamp reduced to 5 / 9 / 13 / 17 / 21% from 5 / 10 / 15 / 20 / 25% > Cooldown increased to 9 seconds from 8 > Safeguard cooldown increased to 9 seconds from 8 > v1.0.0.135 > > Sonic Wave base damage increased to 50 / 80 / 110 / 140 / 170 from 45 / 75 / 105 / 135 / 165 (Hotfixed 2/21 due to an unintended nerf in the > Nautilus patch) > v1.0.0.133 > > Flurry attack speed bonus reduced to 40% from 50% > Sonic Wave missing health damage reduced to 8% from 10% > v1.0.0.126 > > Sonic Wave > Cooldown increased to 11 / 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 from 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 / 6 seconds > Attack damage ratio reduced to 0.9 from 1.0 > Safe Guard range reduced to 700 from 750 > v1.0.0.124 > > Resonating Strike will now only automatically attempt to attack champions rather than all enemies > v1.0.0.123 > > Lee Sin will now attempt to attack the target after dashing to a champion with Resonating Strike > v1.0.0.121 > > Safeguard can now target wards again, but will now reveal wards to enemies when used in this manner > v1.0.0.118 > > Energy costs on all spells reduced to 50 / 30 from 60 / 40 > Safeguard shield no longer restores energy when the shield is destroyed > Tempest range increased to 450 from 400 > v1.0.0.116 > > Fixed a bug where Resonating Strike could follow the target over indefinite distance > v1.0.0.115 > > Sonic Wave > Base damage reduced to 50 / 80 / 110 / 140 / 170 from 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 / 180 > Improved the general missile usability > Resonating Strike base damage reduced to 50 / 80 / 110 / 140 / 170 from 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 / 180 > Safeguard range increased by 50 > Iron Will lifesteal and spell vamp percent reduced to 5 / 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 from 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 > April 5th Hotfix > > Sonic Wave/Resonating Strike AD ratio increase to 1.0 from 0.8 > Tempest/Cripple AD ratio increased to 1.0 from 0.6 > Dragon's Rage AD ratio increased to 2.0 from 1.5 > Flurry's Energy restoration increased to 15 from 10 > v1.0.0.114 > > Lee Sin released > " > > untouched you could even call him This dude lost insane amount of base stats, bonus armor, AS slow and many other things and he's still on the strong side. I mean... What the hell ?
> [{quoted}](name=Mecar,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=EGha2oXM,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2015-12-07T16:11:43.213+0000) > > This dude lost insane amount of base stats, bonus armor, AS slow and many other things and he's still on the strong side. I mean... What the hell ? Because the problems are not with his numbers, his problem is WITHIN his jack of all trades kit. If he lost a few of his abilities, he would become more balanced.
QueenD88 (EUW)
: Why are Riot incapable of admitting favoritism?
If it was only me, then I could understand it but many people feel the same way about Riot's favoritism towards Lee Sin, even some professional players who are way better then me have commented on how stupidly overpowered and mobile he is compared to other champions and how versatile and multi-facited his kit is. XJ9 was even banned from professional play because he hated Lee Sin so much.
alasarcher (EUNE)
: Lee is probably one of most nerfed champions... Just because u are not skilled enough to play against him, it doesnt mean Riot shows favouritism.
> [{quoted}](name=alasarcher,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=EGha2oXM,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-12-07T16:10:02.764+0000) > > Lee is probably one of most nerfed champions... Just because u are not skilled enough to play against him, it doesnt mean Riot shows favouritism. It has nothing to do with that at all, I have beaten a Lee many a time. I am just sick of seeing him and the easy amount of utility and safety that his kit provides with his two gap closers.
Neonchan (EUW)
: " v4.20 Base armor and base health regeneration are going down slightly. "We've made enough jokes throughout the patch notes at the expense of Lee Sin's constant dominant power, but we're making some small pre-emptive modifications just in case. Aside from Kha'Zix (for which we have changes), Lee is still a jungler who has the potential to be very oppressive in the early game, so we're tuning up his weaknesses by a small amount." General BASE ARMOR: 26 ⇒ 24 BASE HEALTH REGENERATION: +9.4 health per 5 seconds ⇒ +7.425 health per 5 seconds v4.15 "Part two of three. Around here is where most would make a joke about Lee Sin being blind. We will not." General BUGFIX: Fixed a bug where abilities that give true sight of enemy champions would reveal stealth wards under certain circumstances v4.13 Lee's shield duration got cut in half, and Cripple no longer reduces attack speed (only movement speed) "Like Elise, Lee Sin has a ton of strengths and few weaknesses, so it's equally tough to find the right direction to take him. In this case, after considering a lot of player feedback about Lee Sin's identity as a high-pressure early jungler who falls off late, we're maintaining that direction in our changes (specifically through the late-game falloff on his survivability and utility)." General BASE HEALTH REGEN: 6.95 health per 5 seconds ⇒ 8.95 health per 5 seconds Safeguard.jpg W - Safeguard SHIELD DURATION: 4 seconds ⇒ 2 seconds Cripple.jpg E - Cripple "REMOVED" NEVER SKIP LEG DAY: Cripple no longer reduces enemy attack speed (only reduces movement speed) v4.5 Safeguard's cooldown will be cut in half if Lee Sin uses it on an allied champion or himself. In exchange, Safeguard's cooldown has gone up and will no longer give Lee a shield if he dashes toward a non-champion unit. "Even though he was designed to be a high-risk early game champion, Lee Sin can get around making risky plays because of his high mobility and early game base power. We were considering some larger changes to give Lee more early game risk and a way forward into the end game, but your concerns that we would be heavily altering some of Lee's core play patterns (which wasn't our intent!) helped us decide that we should slow our roll. These changes mean Lee will need to take more risks in mobility but don't touch his overall power curve. They also give Lee a real reason to play with his teammates rather than inanimate wards." Safeguard.jpg W - Safeguard COOLDOWN: 9 seconds ⇒ 14 seconds "NEW" UTILITY: Cooldown reduced by 50% if cast on Lee Sin or an allied champion SHIELD DURATION: 5 seconds ⇒ 4 seconds "REMOVED" UTILITY: Lee Sin gains a shield when Safeguard is cast on non-champion units IronWill.jpg W - Iron Will DURATION: 5 seconds ⇒ 4 seconds v3.15 Summary: Safeguard no longer shields minions or makes wards invulnerable when Lee Sin dashes to them. "We like that Lee Sin could make cool plays without relying on teammates to Safeguard to, but felt we could trim some of his extraneous power without removing the real ‘fun' of it." W - Safeguard Now only shields the target if the ally is a champion v1.0.0.154 Safeguard Fixed a bug where the tooltip incorrectly stated that Lee Sin regained energy when the shield was broken Iron Will No longer grants armor while active Life steal and spell vamp increased to 5 / 10 / 15 / 20 / 25% from 5 / 9 / 13 / 17 / 21% Cripple Slow amount reduced at earlier ranks to 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 / 60% from 30 / 37.5 / 45 / 52.5 / 60% Range reduced to 600 from 800 v1.0.0.152 Base Movement Speed increased by 25. v1.0.0.139 Iron Will Life Steal and Spell Vamp reduced to 5 / 9 / 13 / 17 / 21% from 5 / 10 / 15 / 20 / 25% Cooldown increased to 9 seconds from 8 Safeguard cooldown increased to 9 seconds from 8 v1.0.0.135 Sonic Wave base damage increased to 50 / 80 / 110 / 140 / 170 from 45 / 75 / 105 / 135 / 165 (Hotfixed 2/21 due to an unintended nerf in the Nautilus patch) v1.0.0.133 Flurry attack speed bonus reduced to 40% from 50% Sonic Wave missing health damage reduced to 8% from 10% v1.0.0.126 Sonic Wave Cooldown increased to 11 / 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 from 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 / 6 seconds Attack damage ratio reduced to 0.9 from 1.0 Safe Guard range reduced to 700 from 750 v1.0.0.124 Resonating Strike will now only automatically attempt to attack champions rather than all enemies v1.0.0.123 Lee Sin will now attempt to attack the target after dashing to a champion with Resonating Strike v1.0.0.121 Safeguard can now target wards again, but will now reveal wards to enemies when used in this manner v1.0.0.118 Energy costs on all spells reduced to 50 / 30 from 60 / 40 Safeguard shield no longer restores energy when the shield is destroyed Tempest range increased to 450 from 400 v1.0.0.116 Fixed a bug where Resonating Strike could follow the target over indefinite distance v1.0.0.115 Sonic Wave Base damage reduced to 50 / 80 / 110 / 140 / 170 from 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 / 180 Improved the general missile usability Resonating Strike base damage reduced to 50 / 80 / 110 / 140 / 170 from 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 / 180 Safeguard range increased by 50 Iron Will lifesteal and spell vamp percent reduced to 5 / 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 from 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 April 5th Hotfix Sonic Wave/Resonating Strike AD ratio increase to 1.0 from 0.8 Tempest/Cripple AD ratio increased to 1.0 from 0.6 Dragon's Rage AD ratio increased to 2.0 from 1.5 Flurry's Energy restoration increased to 15 from 10 v1.0.0.114 Lee Sin released " untouched you could even call him
> [{quoted}](name=Neonchan,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=EGha2oXM,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-12-07T16:06:04.511+0000) > > " > v4.20 > Base armor and base health regeneration are going down slightly. > > "We've made enough jokes throughout the patch notes at the expense of Lee Sin's constant dominant power, but we're making some small pre-emptive modifications just in case. Aside from Kha'Zix (for which we have changes), Lee is still a jungler who has the potential to be very oppressive in the early game, so we're tuning up his weaknesses by a small amount." > > General > BASE ARMOR: 26 ⇒ 24 > BASE HEALTH REGENERATION: +9.4 health per 5 seconds ⇒ +7.425 health per 5 seconds > v4.15 > "Part two of three. Around here is where most would make a joke about Lee Sin being blind. We will not." > > General > BUGFIX: Fixed a bug where abilities that give true sight of enemy champions would reveal stealth wards under certain circumstances > v4.13 > Lee's shield duration got cut in half, and Cripple no longer reduces attack speed (only movement speed) > > "Like Elise, Lee Sin has a ton of strengths and few weaknesses, so it's equally tough to find the right direction to take him. In this case, after considering a lot of player feedback about Lee Sin's identity as a high-pressure early jungler who falls off late, we're maintaining that direction in our changes (specifically through the late-game falloff on his survivability and utility)." > > General > BASE HEALTH REGEN: 6.95 health per 5 seconds ⇒ 8.95 health per 5 seconds > Safeguard.jpg W - Safeguard > SHIELD DURATION: 4 seconds ⇒ 2 seconds > Cripple.jpg E - Cripple > "REMOVED" NEVER SKIP LEG DAY: Cripple no longer reduces enemy attack speed (only reduces movement speed) > v4.5 > Safeguard's cooldown will be cut in half if Lee Sin uses it on an allied champion or himself. In exchange, Safeguard's cooldown has gone up and will no longer give Lee a shield if he dashes toward a non-champion unit. > > "Even though he was designed to be a high-risk early game champion, Lee Sin can get around making risky plays because of his high mobility and early game base power. We were considering some larger changes to give Lee more early game risk and a way forward into the end game, but your concerns that we would be heavily altering some of Lee's core play patterns (which wasn't our intent!) helped us decide that we should slow our roll. These changes mean Lee will need to take more risks in mobility but don't touch his overall power curve. They also give Lee a real reason to play with his teammates rather than inanimate wards." > > Safeguard.jpg W - Safeguard > COOLDOWN: 9 seconds ⇒ 14 seconds > "NEW" UTILITY: Cooldown reduced by 50% if cast on Lee Sin or an allied champion > SHIELD DURATION: 5 seconds ⇒ 4 seconds > "REMOVED" UTILITY: Lee Sin gains a shield when Safeguard is cast on non-champion units > IronWill.jpg W - Iron Will > DURATION: 5 seconds ⇒ 4 seconds > > v3.15 > Summary: Safeguard no longer shields minions or makes wards invulnerable when Lee Sin dashes to them. > > "We like that Lee Sin could make cool plays without relying on teammates to Safeguard to, but felt we could trim some of his extraneous power without removing the real ‘fun' of it." > > W - Safeguard > Now only shields the target if the ally is a champion > > v1.0.0.154 > Safeguard > Fixed a bug where the tooltip incorrectly stated that > Lee Sin regained energy when the shield was broken > Iron Will > No longer grants armor while active > Life steal and spell vamp increased to 5 / 10 / 15 / 20 / 25% from 5 / 9 / 13 / 17 / 21% > Cripple > Slow amount reduced at earlier ranks to 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 / 60% from 30 / 37.5 / 45 / 52.5 / 60% > Range reduced to 600 from 800 > v1.0.0.152 > > Base Movement Speed increased by 25. > v1.0.0.139 > > Iron Will > Life Steal and Spell Vamp reduced to 5 / 9 / 13 / 17 / 21% from 5 / 10 / 15 / 20 / 25% > Cooldown increased to 9 seconds from 8 > Safeguard cooldown increased to 9 seconds from 8 > v1.0.0.135 > > Sonic Wave base damage increased to 50 / 80 / 110 / 140 / 170 from 45 / 75 / 105 / 135 / 165 (Hotfixed 2/21 due to an unintended nerf in the > Nautilus patch) > v1.0.0.133 > > Flurry attack speed bonus reduced to 40% from 50% > Sonic Wave missing health damage reduced to 8% from 10% > v1.0.0.126 > > Sonic Wave > Cooldown increased to 11 / 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 from 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 / 6 seconds > Attack damage ratio reduced to 0.9 from 1.0 > Safe Guard range reduced to 700 from 750 > v1.0.0.124 > > Resonating Strike will now only automatically attempt to attack champions rather than all enemies > v1.0.0.123 > > Lee Sin will now attempt to attack the target after dashing to a champion with Resonating Strike > v1.0.0.121 > > Safeguard can now target wards again, but will now reveal wards to enemies when used in this manner > v1.0.0.118 > > Energy costs on all spells reduced to 50 / 30 from 60 / 40 > Safeguard shield no longer restores energy when the shield is destroyed > Tempest range increased to 450 from 400 > v1.0.0.116 > > Fixed a bug where Resonating Strike could follow the target over indefinite distance > v1.0.0.115 > > Sonic Wave > Base damage reduced to 50 / 80 / 110 / 140 / 170 from 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 / 180 > Improved the general missile usability > Resonating Strike base damage reduced to 50 / 80 / 110 / 140 / 170 from 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 / 180 > Safeguard range increased by 50 > Iron Will lifesteal and spell vamp percent reduced to 5 / 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 from 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 > April 5th Hotfix > > Sonic Wave/Resonating Strike AD ratio increase to 1.0 from 0.8 > Tempest/Cripple AD ratio increased to 1.0 from 0.6 > Dragon's Rage AD ratio increased to 2.0 from 1.5 > Flurry's Energy restoration increased to 15 from 10 > v1.0.0.114 > > Lee Sin released > " > > untouched you could even call him Those are all "love taps" and not significant changes to the way he plays or feels. Plus his rework was the ONLY ONE to be cancelled. There are no real significant nerfs to him. He has been the same way and just as oppressive and mobile for YEARS.
Rioter Comments
Eveninn (EUW)
: You know what, I personally consider Lee and Thresh as 2 of the best Champion designs in the game. They both have strong enough kits to always stay usefull, but can easiely be pushed away from being too strong by tweaking numbers. They never are useless, but I didn't see them significantly outclass any other choice so far. Morg and Blitz. The hitbox doesn't Change every time when cast, so if you just think of it as *hitbox* which's direction is indicated by the partcles instead of the particles hitting you... then you are all set. This goes for about any skillshot really, let alone hitboxes of certain Champions. What are could argue about them tho, is that they have 1 skillshot that is so game deciding. But that's what they are known for. v.v Yasuo... and I don't like him... but if I really wanna kill him I go exhaust or Lissandra and RIP Yasuo. o/ Towers protect you in the beginning, but imo it's good that they stop safing you from everything taht Comes at some Point. Else any waveclear Champion would be simply overpowered.
> [{quoted}](name=GPet,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=Bm0Mxun3,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-12-07T13:48:58.066+0000) > > You know what, I personally consider Lee and Thresh as 2 of the best Champion designs in the game. > > They both have strong enough kits to always stay usefull, > but can easiely be pushed away from being too strong by tweaking numbers. > They never are useless, but I didn't see them significantly outclass any other choice so far. > > Morg and Blitz. > The hitbox doesn't Change every time when cast, so if you just think of it as *hitbox* which's direction is indicated by the partcles instead of the particles hitting you... then you are all set. > This goes for about any skillshot really, let alone hitboxes of certain Champions. > > What are could argue about them tho, is that they have 1 skillshot that is so game deciding. > But that's what they are known for. v.v > > Yasuo... and I don't like him... but if I really wanna kill him I go exhaust or Lissandra and RIP Yasuo. o/ > > Towers protect you in the beginning, but imo it's good that they stop safing you from everything taht Comes at some Point. > > Else any waveclear Champion would be simply overpowered. Strong "kits" is another word for broken, they can do too much and push other champions out of meta because of it = Toxic designs. They should be both nerfed so that we can have some variety in the jungler and support roles because both are used a lot because of their rediculously strong and multi-layered kits. They need to have one particular focus and not be able to do 50 things at once or if they have to be "generalist" then other champions with specific specialties need to outperform them.
Rioter Comments
xMidnight (EUW)
: I agree on Annie, not on Lee Sin tho lol
> [{quoted}](name=xMidnight,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=r4TOAcTW,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-12-07T02:36:18.162+0000) > > I agree on Annie, not on Lee Sin tho lol Of course you wouldn't favoritism from his fanbase and Riot protects him from nerfs or any kind of rework (Like last time he was due to be reworked)
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: play bard. reply and i will send you the reasons.
> [{quoted}](name=OppaiDragon,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=Q8tvhlHG,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-12-04T11:35:20.552+0000) > > play bard. reply and i will send you the reasons. Why?
: It is hard to understand another person, especially on the internet where you have to rely on written text. And no two flamers are alike. However, flaming does ruin a lot of games in more ways than one. So here is the question: What do you want from the boards, Riot and the community? Help to stop flaming? Immunity to punishments? Better teammates? to be honest, only the first one is something people can actually help you with
> [{quoted}](name=Tosha,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=Q8tvhlHG,comment-id=00030000000300000000,timestamp=2015-12-04T11:34:19.005+0000) > > It is hard to understand another person, especially on the internet where you have to rely on written text. And no two flamers are alike. However, flaming does ruin a lot of games in more ways than one. > > So here is the question: What do you want from the boards, Riot and the community? Help to stop flaming? Immunity to punishments? Better teammates? to be honest, only the first one is something people can actually help you with I want help to stop, its horrible being angry... I'm not like this off the internet.
: This sounds a lot better then your opening post to be fair. For the first time ever on these boards, I can actually glimpse the "person behind the flamer". Correct me if I am wrong, but this reads like you are hurt because you give your all, and you feel like they do not return the effort in your eyes. With this logic, isnt is better to get to know people better so you learn their limits and know what expectations you can have?
> [{quoted}](name=Tosha,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=Q8tvhlHG,comment-id=000300000003,timestamp=2015-12-04T11:24:47.246+0000) > > This sounds a lot better then your opening post to be fair. For the first time ever on these boards, I can actually glimpse the "person behind the flamer". > > Correct me if I am wrong, but this reads like you are hurt because you give your all, and you feel like they do not return the effort in your eyes. > > With this logic, isnt is better to get to know people better so you learn their limits and know what expectations you can have? EXACTLY, that is EXACTLY why I get angry. I have been waiting for somebody to actually understand that. Nobody tries to understand flamers, they just say we are bad people because we are so passionate. Its easier to label somebody then actually understand them and I feel that Riot does this too.
iaxel (EUW)
: First, you lost also because your team comp is bad. Karma pick accomplishes almost nothing vs the enemy team comp. So that's on you. Second, when you're vs a smurf you do not decide whether you feed or not. You will almost always lose unless he makes a huge misplay, gets cocky or just fucks around. There's a skill difference for a reason. If you say " do not feed " your team mate won't magically beat or be on par with the smurf. That's just unlucky. 3rd, people have bad games. Watch challenger games or streamers, people on their team feed, fail and play sometimes like utter shit but they still win. Why? Because they understand that sometimes people play bad, sometimes they play amazing, sometimes they're average at their elo. That doe snot mean you should flame them. Anyway i do not care if you're toxic, get banned or not. Barely affects me since i mute/block people who i know might tilt or will flame. Good luck :)
> [{quoted}](name=rawraxel,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=Q8tvhlHG,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-12-04T11:14:14.396+0000) > > First, you lost also because your team comp is bad. > Karma pick accomplishes almost nothing vs the enemy team comp. > So that's on you. > Second, when you're vs a smurf you do not decide whether you feed or not. > You will almost always lose unless he makes a huge misplay, gets cocky or just fucks around. There's a skill difference for a reason. If you say " do not feed " your team mate won't magically beat or be on par with the smurf. > That's just unlucky. > 3rd, people have bad games. Watch challenger games or streamers, people on their team feed, fail and play sometimes like utter shit but they still win. > Why? > Because they understand that sometimes people play bad, sometimes they play amazing, sometimes they're average at their elo. > That doe snot mean you should flame them. > > Anyway i do not care if you're toxic, get banned or not. > Barely affects me since i mute/block people who i know might tilt or will flame. > > Good luck :) Karma is not a bad pick, I chose to main her because I like her kit and I am good with her. I won't main cheap gimmick supports like Blitz, Annie or Morgana because their kits are boring and they are overused. I like to be different and play with a champion that isn't fotm. Secondly, I am a Smurf myself so I could very easily beat that Ryze because I know what to avoid and how to outplay him. I went up to top lane and helped Riven and Vayne kill him more then once because of that knowledge. I identified him as the main threat on the team because he was the strongest player.
Kolfin (EUW)
: > but I am actually half of how toxic I used to be now when I play the game Say the player who get a perma-ban XD. Nice joke. The players don't want to play with you, and Riot agreed on that. > I just don't want Riot coming after me because of my beliefs or because of what I've done on another account. If you are still a toxic player on another account, you will get banned fast. Because Riot and the plaeyrs don't want toxic players in their game. Change your behavior, or play something else.
> [{quoted}](name=Kolfin,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=Q8tvhlHG,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-04T11:14:45.331+0000) > > Say the player who get a perma-ban XD. > Nice joke. > > > The players don't want to play with you, and Riot agreed on that. > > If you are still a toxic player on another account, you will get banned fast. > Because Riot and the plaeyrs don't want toxic players in their game. > Change your behavior, or play something else. Yes but because of the very competitive nature of the game, that will never go away, no matter how much Riot wants it to.
Kolfin (EUW)
: > but I am actually half of how toxic I used to be now when I play the game Say the player who get a perma-ban XD. Nice joke. The players don't want to play with you, and Riot agreed on that. > I just don't want Riot coming after me because of my beliefs or because of what I've done on another account. If you are still a toxic player on another account, you will get banned fast. Because Riot and the plaeyrs don't want toxic players in their game. Change your behavior, or play something else.
> [{quoted}](name=Kolfin,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=Q8tvhlHG,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-04T11:14:45.331+0000) > > Say the player who get a perma-ban XD. > Nice joke. > > > The players don't want to play with you, and Riot agreed on that. No, its actually true, I did quiet down in games after I got banned. I mean, it was the shock of actually getting banned. Sure, I was angry at Riot for a while for it but I actually came to believe it was my fault, which it was. I'm just illustrating how something like that can change your perspective a bit.
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Taser Sword,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=Q8tvhlHG,comment-id=00010000000000000003,timestamp=2015-12-04T11:12:54.871+0000) > > Guess what, you lost, you're bad, as a "player" of the "TEAM". > Go play Minesweeper or something if you want to win and don't want to consider the need of a team, this game is not for you. That is exactly what I mean. Nobody respects you if you lose.
: Don't get me wrong, I like winning and I do my best every game. But I can define other things as "winning" too, even though I lost: - I mastered a new element of the game - I laughed my ass off with my friends or had a fun and friendly team - I had a challenging game against good and worthy opponents So even though I lost the actual game, it can still feel like a win. In the end, individual games matter very little to me compared to the overall experience and personal growth.
> [{quoted}](name=Tosha,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=Q8tvhlHG,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-04T11:10:26.919+0000) > > Don't get me wrong, I like winning and I do my best every game. But I can define other things as "winning" too, even though I lost: > > - I mastered a new element of the game > - I laughed my ass off with my friends or had a fun and friendly team > - I had a challenging game against good and worthy opponents > > So even though I lost the actual game, it can still feel like a win. In the end, individual games matter very little to me compared to the overall experience and personal growth. Fun is a secondary factor, winning is the only way in life that people take you seriously. The whole world is based off competition, its in our very nature. If you don't win, you arn't respected. Look at all the crap TSM gets now because they did so badly at Worlds.
Kolfin (EUW)
: > I don't have any friends that I like to play with too much because they all wanna be the "big carry" and do EXACTLY the same thing by being too aggressive early and dying. or they don't want to play with you because you are a flammer. > What else are you supposed to do... you are UTTERLY POWERLESS in these situations and that is frustrating so THIS is the reason why I flame because nobody LISTENS. I say "Hey Riven, please stop dying" and I get "STFU Noob" in return (Real, mature). The other players are not playing for YOU. You are NOT the "teacher" or the "coach" of your team. The advice "pls stop dying" is DUMB and USELESS. In this game, all the players die one way or another, you can't play without the risk of dying, because that's the other team want. I am always speechless to see this line "stop dying" in the chat ... and i insta /mute everyone who write that _dumb_ line. You are playing the "support role", not the "mother/father role". We are not playing this game to have a (father/mother/coach/boss/teacher) who think he has to give the orders in game. Play something else than a MOBA, you didn't get it.
> [{quoted}](name=Kolfin,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=Q8tvhlHG,comment-id=000100010001,timestamp=2015-12-04T11:09:51.985+0000) > > or they don't want to play with you because you are a flammer. > > The other players are not playing for YOU. > You are NOT the "teacher" or the "coach" of ou team. > The advice "pls stop dying" is DUMB and USELESS. In this game, all the players die one way or another, you can't play without the risk of dying, because that's the other team want. Well I'm sorry, I'm not perfect and I get angry... but what is the point of putting in all that work and really trying to get nothing back from your team at all.
QueenD88 (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Tosha,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=Q8tvhlHG,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-12-04T10:57:29.857+0000) > > So > > 1. Why are you still playing? > 2. With strangers? > 3. And not in a team with friends only? > > and > 4. Why do you think flaming will accomplish anything? > > And finally > 5. Why do you want to waste energy on things you have no control over? Because 1. I don't have any friends that I like to play with too much because they all wanna be the "big carry" and do EXACTLY the same thing by being too aggressive early and dying. 2. What else are you supposed to do... you are UTTERLY POWERLESS in these situations and that is frustrating so THIS is the reason why I flame because nobody LISTENS. I say "Hey Riven, please stop dying" and I get "STFU Noob" in return (Real, mature).
> [{quoted}](name=QueenD88,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=Q8tvhlHG,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2015-12-04T10:59:35.413+0000) > > Because > > 1. I don't have any friends that I like to play with too much because they all wanna be the "big carry" and do EXACTLY the same thing by being too aggressive early and dying. > > 2. What else are you supposed to do... you are UTTERLY POWERLESS in these situations and that is frustrating so THIS is the reason why I flame because nobody LISTENS. I say "Hey Riven, please stop dying" and I get "STFU Noob" in return (Real, mature). and 3. I don't have any friends to play this game with.
Kolfin (EUW)
: We haven't misjudging you : flammers are flaming for a _reason_. It doesn't mean they are _allowed_ to flame in the chat. Flaming is _forbidden_, you broke the rules, you are now perma - banned. But you have the "logic" of a flammer : "i can flame in game because my teamates are bad !" NO, you can't do that, end of the story. Bye bye flamer, the game is more entertainning without you.
> [{quoted}](name=Kolfin,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=Q8tvhlHG,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-12-04T11:03:24.799+0000) > > We haven't misjudging you : flammers are flaming for a _reason_. > It doesn't mean they are _allowed_ to flame in the chat. > > > Flaming is _forbidden_, you broke the rules, you are now perma - banned. I am and you know what, I actually believe that I deserved it but I am actually half of how toxic I used to be now when I play the game. I just don't want Riot coming after me because of my beliefs or because of what I've done on another account.
: Here is how not to deal with people who are bad at the game in 3 easy steps: 1. Uninstall League of Legends. 2. Install a 1v1 title. 3. Enjoy. Because you can't just be an asshole to people because you think they are stupid. If I did so I'd be out of the job right now. I explain to people time and time again why what they think does not work, why their ideas are not applicable because the law does not work that way. And they keep going on and on about, living inside their own reality bubble where they feel the victims of cruel, unjust world. And they keep going on and on about this or that slight and how they feel it should ensure their victory. And all my arguments about how this or that law works just bounce off of them. And you know what? You have a convenient way out - stop playing League and everyone - you **and** us will be happier for it. I on the other hand have to nod and smile while talking with idiots full of themselves with egos too big to see they are talking out of their asses. <smile, nod>
> [{quoted}](name=The Smith of Lie,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=Q8tvhlHG,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-12-04T11:02:02.038+0000) > > Here is how not to deal with people who are bad at the game in 3 easy steps: > 1. Uninstall League of Legends. > 2. Install a 1v1 title. > 3. Enjoy. > > Because you can't just be an asshole to people because you think they are stupid. If I did so I'd be out of the job right now. I explain to people time and time again why what they think does not work, why their ideas are not applicable because the law does not work that way. And they keep going on and on about, living inside their own reality bubble where they feel the victims of cruel, unjust world. And they keep going on and on about this or that slight and how they feel it should ensure their victory. And all my arguments about how this or that law works just bounce off of them. > > And you know what? You have a convenient way out - stop playing League and everyone - you **and** us will be happier for it. I on the other hand have to nod and smile while talking with idiots full of themselves with egos too big to see they are talking out of their asses. > > <smile, nod> Yes but I want to improve, I want to be a good player. I am not interested in being a hyper-carry or anything like that. I always play support roles in games because I love helping people. It just upsets me when I bust my ass, every game is serious for me, I want to prove how good and dedicated I am to my team and when they do that, I just feel so angry, as if I'm personally under attack for my outlook.
: Still leaves questions number 4 and 5 though.
> [{quoted}](name=Tosha,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=Q8tvhlHG,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-12-04T10:59:50.123+0000) > > Still leaves questions number 4 and 5 though. Winning is all the matters, the people you play with, you are never going to see again, or rarely so why bother getting to know them. I auto-decline friendship requests because I have no interest in knowing these people as they are only tools for me to practice my Karma plays and get better within myself.
Luis Sc (EUW)
: > I have to have a bunch of trash on my team who die over and over again Grats on being the opposite of a person than what you appear to be on the rift. Compromise, they say. Having other people's actions dictate who you are tells a lot about a person.
> [{quoted}](name=Luis Sc,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=Q8tvhlHG,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-12-04T10:58:44.021+0000) > > Grats on being the opposite of a person than what you appear to be on the rift. > > Compromise, they say. > > Having other people's actions fivtate who you are tells a lot about a person. See, just shows how you might have misjudged me and if you were wrong about that, what else could you be wrong about. It is utterly frustrating as a support main to be absolutely powerless to alter the flow of the game.
: So 1. Why are you still playing? 2. With strangers? 3. And not in a team with friends only? and 4. Why do you think flaming will accomplish anything? And finally 5. Why do you want to waste energy on things you have no control over?
> [{quoted}](name=Tosha,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=Q8tvhlHG,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-12-04T10:57:29.857+0000) > > So > > 1. Why are you still playing? > 2. With strangers? > 3. And not in a team with friends only? > > and > 4. Why do you think flaming will accomplish anything? > > And finally > 5. Why do you want to waste energy on things you have no control over? Because 1. I don't have any friends that I like to play with too much because they all wanna be the "big carry" and do EXACTLY the same thing by being too aggressive early and dying. 2. What else are you supposed to do... you are UTTERLY POWERLESS in these situations and that is frustrating so THIS is the reason why I flame because nobody LISTENS. I say "Hey Riven, please stop dying" and I get "STFU Noob" in return (Real, mature).
Rioter Comments
: > They think they are accomplishing something with their "ban" system but all the toxic players just sign up for another account and the whole cycle starts over again. We just had a very interesting thread about that. A pretty toxic guy got permabanned and wrote about his experience with the ban system. He also tried to avoid the system by creating new accounts and obviously he kept being toxic on these accounts. This is what he wrote: > I bothered to create an alternative account and they keep banning them incredibly quickly and prosecuting me So even extremely toxic players notice that they can't really avoid the PB systems. Additionally, most players are not like that. The majority of permabanned toxic players just stops playing LoL and doesn't even create a new account. For most people the loss of their main account is just too much to continue. > Unfortunately, conflict is human nature So is empathy and social behavior. > start looking at the REASON people get so annoyed at your game This is precisely what Riot does and they continue to try to fix the main reasons for toxicity, as far as that is possible. The upcoming teambuilder ranked is a very good example for that. You can find a lot more examples about Riots research and methods in these sources. The GDC talks are always a good start, especially the ones from 2014 and 2015. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbYQ0AVVBGU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-5yKdpR0kU http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1020389/Enhancing-Sportsmanship-in-Online http://gdcvault.com/play/1017940/The-Science-Behind-Shaping-Player http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1022160/More-Science-Behind-Shaping-Player https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/sections/200382430-Behavior-Initiatives http://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/de/c/player-behaviour-en/qWU1kgFi-chat-restriction-faq http://clgaming.net/redtracker?user=142#lyte http://www.reddit.com/user/RiotLyte http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/05/using-science-to-reform-toxic-player-behavior-in-league-of-legends/ http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/player-behavior http://www.psychologyofgames.com/2015/06/podcast-4-toxic-behavior/ http://ask.fm/riotlyte/
> [{quoted}](name=Humpelstilzche,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=Bo9oGvsl,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-12-04T10:17:03.343+0000) > > We just had a very interesting thread about that. A pretty toxic guy got permabanned and wrote about his experience with the ban system. He also tried to avoid the system by creating new accounts and obviously he kept being toxic on these accounts. This is what he wrote: > > So even extremely toxic players notice that they can't really avoid the PB systems. > > Additionally, most players are not like that. The majority of permabanned toxic players just stops playing LoL and doesn't even create a new account. For most people the loss of their main account is just too much to continue. > > So is empathy and social behavior. > > This is precisely what Riot does and they continue to try to fix the main reasons for toxicity, as far as that is possible. The upcoming teambuilder ranked is a very good example for that. > > You can find a lot more examples about Riots research and methods in these sources. The GDC talks are always a good start, especially the ones from 2014 and 2015. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbYQ0AVVBGU > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-5yKdpR0kU > http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1020389/Enhancing-Sportsmanship-in-Online > http://gdcvault.com/play/1017940/The-Science-Behind-Shaping-Player > http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1022160/More-Science-Behind-Shaping-Player > https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/sections/200382430-Behavior-Initiatives > http://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/de/c/player-behaviour-en/qWU1kgFi-chat-restriction-faq > http://clgaming.net/redtracker?user=142#lyte > http://www.reddit.com/user/RiotLyte > http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/05/using-science-to-reform-toxic-player-behavior-in-league-of-legends/ > http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/player-behavior > http://www.psychologyofgames.com/2015/06/podcast-4-toxic-behavior/ > http://ask.fm/riotlyte/ But still nobody is going to go away if they don't choose to so Riot accomplishes nothing.
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QueenD88

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