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Neur0tiix (EUNE)
: 6.22 - Reducing the Punishment
I share some of your thoughts. Yes, this last patch made assassins HORRIBLY OP... as you said assassins should be a "high risk high reward" class, but now they are "low risk high reward". They tried to compensate this by giving some buff to tank supports... but that's still not enough. They should give the other champs some ways to counter the assassin... like an item that for 2 or 3 seconds reflects ALL the damage on the enemy champ, or a defensive item that stun the enemy. Anyway as of now champs like Leona, Braum, Nautilus and Taric are the only solution to this abomination of a patch until
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Rongarak (EUW)
: This is the problem. Now he's JUST a support... and all of the other support champions can support MUCH better than him. That wasn't a problem in the past cause he used to be able to hold his own as mage... but no more. Riot took Zilean, mutilated him and created a pitiful, pale copy of the original.
All champions are dangerous to keep alive. >.> On paper, he MAY seems strong. But in reality... even SLOWED people can evade his q (it is THAT difficult to land), and also his W and E can be useful, but not as much as other support champs abilities. He can revive allies, but other supports make it difficult to kill them to begin with, and since his W don't affect his R anymore, he can't spam revive. In the end, he is an average support... and nothing else.
: that is because he is a utility support *facepalm* just like going {{champion:40}} or{{champion:16}} it's suicide!
This is the problem. Now he's JUST a support... and all of the other support champions can support MUCH better than him. That wasn't a problem in the past cause he used to be able to hold his own as mage... but no more. Riot took Zilean, mutilated him and created a pitiful, pale copy of the original.
: Still think you're doing it wrong and should stop complaining and start practicing!
I did practice. A lot. That's why I'm complaining: because there is just NO way to use Zilean right. While it's true that I somehow land my Q much more than in the beginning... I still CAN'T use it alone. I have to go supp with him... and I don't really like it. I used to go Top or Mid with Zilean... but now, that's just the easy way to give a free lane to the enemy. Plus, as a support, champions like Braum, Morgana or Soraka are just PLAIN better. Riot took away from Zilean the means to be a Solo champion, while not buffing his ability to support.
: Don't think of him as a damage dealer he is a utility support just like {{champion:40}} and{{champion:16}} they aren't the ones that do damage, they zone, make sure that your ADC/team mates catchup and stay alive!
Yeah... but there is a limit to everything. If they nerfed the AP ratio of his Q, i would have understood... but now, he CAN'T land anything. {{champion:40}} and {{champion:16}} effectively deal more damage than him... because they can land their abilities, while Zilean can't.
: So you're just bad at the new zillean, no shame you can't be pro at every Champion! :)
If I alone was bad at it, it'd be no problem. But I've NEVER seen anyone good with the new Zilean...
: You just ain't doing it right! Just accept that you're not a good Zillean just like i accepted i am bad at playing: {{champion:38}} !
I'll use {{champion:38}} to make an example... Kassadin is one of my mains since I started playing. I've seen him go through multiple nerfs... but I always somehow managed to use him efficently. That's because even though Riot made him weaker, they didn't break him and they didn't change his core gameplay. But with {{champion:26}} , that's exactly what they did. He used to be a support/mage that could try to go solo or support his teammates. Now, he CAN'T survive against ANYONE without his team. Heck, even other supports ({{champion:25}} {{champion:432}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:37}} ) can EASILY beat him in 1vs1. Now he's just a speed controller that sometimes revives his allies. His Q is USELESS if the enemy pay attention to it.
: stop blaming the champ and blame yourself LIKE A MAN! (A skilled man does not blame his tools!)
Fact is... before the nerf, I won almost every game with Zilean, and often I had tens of kills and no deaths. Now, I almost always have no kills and multiple deaths. I am the same player... actually, I'm improved. It's the champ that's changed.
: You just ain't doing it right son!
You can't do right something that's wrong to begin with.
: You missing the bombs is not the fault of the bombs you are just not doing it right! (btw stop comparing him to {{champion:30}} they are nothing alike!)
Let's just put it this way... In order to place the two bombs on an enemy (and stunning him), said enemy must be: 1) Already stunned by someone else. 2) Slowed by Zilean, Tresh and Nasus at the same time. 3) Standing still for no apparent reason. In ANY other circumstance, he can EASILY avoid being hit: the hitbox for the Q is insignificant and I could avoid it like nothing with a slowed nautilus. Oh, and I was comparing him to {{champion:30}} because they're Q are somehow alike (small hitbox, the enemy is advidsed WHERE the attack is going to take place, hitting the key and the effect are delayed).
Snowfox (EUW)
: You dont even need to hit q, you can use it to zone as well.
The zone is EASILY avoidable as well. Also, if you play support, it will steal farm from yoru adc.
Rich (EUW)
: This. Zilean seems pretty strong to me right now. If you can't land the bombs I don't think it's the bombs' fault. They just stopped him being a point and click pain in the arse support, though I still hate playing against him.
Zilean MAY seem strong on paper... but on the field, he isn't. And yeah, it IS the bomb fault. I can hit repeatedly someone with Karthus (i'm rather good at that) BUT I almost always miss people as Zilean. Fact is... the bomb are EASILY avoidable if you know how to kite a little, and they are the ONLY source of zilean damage. Also, try playing against a SOLO LANER zilean. You have to be INCREDIBLY bad to lose against him.
: He got buffed with higher damage, Lower CD and lower Mana costs!
Too bad THAT's not enough to make him playable.
: yup and the speed up/ massive slow is scary for a low health role like mage or ADC :3
Yeah... but that said, if Zilean is alone, he's toasted
: I'm just saying Zilean's main purpose isn't to deal damage. I do know that his Q does deal damage, obviously. But that's not the main thing it's supposed to do. It's supposed to zone the enemy team because of the threat of a multi man stun.
Fact is... Zilean CAN do something in a TEAMFIGHT. Now, when he's alone, he's MORE THAN USELESS. He can only run away. I tried to take on a Kalista who had 50 life... she EVADED all of my q and proceed to kill me. NOW tell me he's useful as solo laner!
: If you think a champion needs damage to be useful, you're really wrong on that one. Zilean is not a damage dealer, he's a support. He has a super strong speedup/slow. He has a revive ult. And he has bombs that create quite the stun if there's multiple people walking through them in a chokepoint. Would Janna be useless as well then, considering she has little to no damage as well?
Try playing Zilean as solo laner (AS I used to main him) and THEN tell me he's useful. Janna's Typhoons have AT LEAST bigger range and hitbox and they can momentarily stun the enemy. Also... the Typhoons actually HIT SOMETIME!
Petsho (EUW)
: If you can't land the bombs it just means you're bad at it. I manage to land enough bombs to feel like he's useful. Just keep practising?
FAct is... I used to play zilean as SOLO LANER. Try to win with him like that, and THEN we'll talk.
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