: The chat they send you is not the only one they use to punish you. They use several ones. Anyway, avoid being racist or homophobic, avoid going afk several games in a row and you would be able to with mothers deads and %%%%s and cancer with no issues... Have fun with this bs punishing system.
That's the only thing they used and didn't have any proofs. They deleted my ticket text about my permanent banning. I still have the texts of it in emails. I'm not showing it here, keeping it for future use. > Anyway, avoid being racist or homophobic, avoid going afk several games in a row and you would be able to with mothers deads and %%%%s and cancer with no issues... Have fun with this bs punishing system. Group bullies insult and report you, they don't get anything, you are punished. The punishment system is bad. Check my post [here](https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-en/X7XuY5uX-permanent-bans-of-accounts-should-be-removed-instead-permanent-ban-chats) about removing the permanent ban of accounts where people didn't even insult for real or did anything bad.
: You don't have to chat to: * Cheat using 3rd Party Software * Excessively ping your Allies to annoy them * Intentionally Feed * Abuse your allies through abilities So these should effectively go unpunished then? Banned from Ranked? So what? They'll still be a terror in normal play.
Permanent chat ban is for players that judge to offensive in their chats. > * Cheat using 3rd Party Software * Excessively ping your Allies to annoy them * Intentionally Feed * Abuse your allies through abilities These above can be permanent ban. Do the same as other game companies.
PH45 (EUNE)
: > I don't know where you get the fact that you are stating. But here are evidences of unfairness and wrongfully bans below: 1. I have been permanently ban for asking report 2 times against a group of flamers. My chat log here. 2. This player n this post got banned when premade of 4 reported him. He hasn't talk at all. 3. Another player in this post has received death threat and virus curse, the flamers didn't get ban. 1. You probably had already previous punishments before that (14-day ban is the final warning) and after that even minor negativity, as the one in your chat logs can result in permaban. 2. If you bothered looking up on the players op.gg, you could see that the persons team was 2 duos, not a 4 player premade. And as previously stated the number of reports doesn't make a difference, since already 1 report starts an investigation. Sure I don't think he deserved a 14-day ban for that, but I still think his actions in-game weren't the best choice he could've done. 3. The flamers may have received a chat restriction, no-one can track that. While imo they should receive a 14-day ban off cases like that instantly, occasionally they may pass for a 25-game chat restriction etc. I know certain key words get 14-day bans pretty much instantly. > If a company isn't showing reports publicly then it isn't working for the community. It has no transparency at all and isn't informing the community about their tests. You are stating a lot of RIot Games procedures, can you please states your source or have a Riot Games's staff confirmed it. Here is a comment from Rioter itself about the NA permaban experiment: https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/dtAVy66c-na-unban-experiment-has-failed?comment=000b And to finalize, I'm done talking about this. I grew bored of this discussion a while ago as this is pretty much just repeating the same thing over and over. I won't change my mind about permabanning as in my opinion it works perfectly fine in eliminating negative behavior from the game, no matter if other companies do it or don't do it for verbal reasons.
> 1.You probably had already previous punishments before that (14-day ban is the final warning) and after that even minor negativity, as the one in your chat logs can result in permaban. I was wrongfully ban 14 days and it got removed after 1 week, Lyte team had sent me an email about it. The received a permanent ban for asking to report bullies? Are you saying asking for help 2 times against bullies deserve a permanent ban? > If you bothered looking up on the players op.gg, you could see that the persons team was 2 duos, not a 4 player premade. And as previously stated the number of reports doesn't make a difference, since already 1 report starts an investigation. Sure I don't think he deserved a 14-day ban for that, but I still think his actions in-game weren't the best choice he could've done. He posted a screenshots of a premade of 4 reporting him. He didn't get a chat log in his reform card and was suspended for 14 days. Seem group bullying to him. > And to finalize, I'm done talking about this. I grew bored of this discussion a while ago as this is pretty much just repeating the same thing over and over. I won't change my mind about permabanning as in my opinion it works perfectly fine in eliminating negative behavior from the game, no matter if other companies do it or don't do it for verbal reasons. Yeah you are wasting my time too with your speculations. If you don't have documents or Riot Games staffs confirming procedures that you are saying, don't waste people time thanks.
PH45 (EUNE)
: > Ok, thanks for clarifying "Counterflaming". You can't assume that all the flamers are delusional, some people might have a bad day or problems affecting their behaviors. Sometimes talking to them make them realized their mistakes. This is how you approach these people. Only people that deserve bans are people who insults mothers, illness threats, racism and death threats. Okey they might not all be delusional, but I can't remember a case where a flamer would have realised their mistake of being wrong/acting badly. All negative players deserve punishment, the trashtalkers will get less harsh bans at first which is the correct way, while the ones you listed escalate their bans faster. > You can't assume that all players don't want to to get educated. That is forcing judgement on all players assuming they are all the same. This behavior is call tyranny. Sure, but in-game you are there to play, not to read a how you should play. Sure giving advice is fine, but I don't really feel like I would appriciate someone's help if they first insulted me by calling me a ''noob'' or etc. > Someone has stated that Riot Games has 100 million players. The IFS system just collect chats and issues ban on some saying "noob" or "idiot, I doubt Riot Games check all games of one specific player, that person might have said it to stop a flamer arguments. It doesn't deserve a permanent ban and be called toxic or negative. That is insulting and bullying a player because that person just talk to someone. Other games company permanent ban players that have continuously insults mothers, illness threats, racism and death threats. Why doesn't Riot Games do the same? Since they have millions of reports(based on assumptions), they waste time for stupid reports like "noob" or "idiot". Group bullies and real toxic players are still here and people that aren't that offensive have their money stolen. By saying ''noob'' or ''idiot'' doesn't get you banned alone, but continous use of insulting terms will eventually get you chat restricted, and then banned if you keep the same act. People who insult mothers, illness etc get banned much faster than people who use ''noob'' or ''idiot'' terms. And group bullying doesn't exist since premade reports don't mean anything more than a single report, and if someone gets triggered by premade harassers it's their own fault for giving into the flaming instead of muting the harassers in the first place. > I have been suspended 24hrs from posting on the board for asking Riot Games how is calling someone "bigot" when that person called me toxic for no reason. People that insulted my person didn't get anything. Evidence here. I don't see how you ''asked''. You used the word which seems to be an offensive term against others. > It is normal to get annoyed when you spend a money on this game and get permanent ban for stupid reasons. Money doesn't grow on trees. some people work hard to get it. Players that are against to remove permanent ban for insignificant words are either group bullies or in the clique. I doubt anyone with common sense would want a system that permanently ban an account over trivial reasons. There are group bullying in the game and single players get reported for stupid reasons even for talking. Just remove the complete chat since Riot Games and some people think anyone that doesn't follow their state of mind are toxic and flamers. Yes it is normal to get annoyed, but it's their own fault for not following common guidelines and rules. If they know they can't follow the rules, they should't spend money on their accounts, or hell even play the game until they get their issues sorted out. Players are against removing permanent ban since it works on removing negative activity from the game and there is no better alternative at the moment. You don't get banned for talking, you get banned for talking offensively to others, which provides no useful things to the game or the community. > They don't show theirs test reports or investigations. Effective results are based on facts and reports, not just words from players or Riot Games. Why doesn't Riot Games include players like me in their test? People that work with facts, reports and common sense. They aren't forced to show them, though a Rioter posted a while ago that they are still compiling data from the permaban experiment on NA still since there was so much of data, so it is possible it will become public at some point. It's their choice to do it in the way they are doing it. And what do you mean include you in their test? Just cause a thing works on let's say 5 persons out of 50 doesn't make it viable.
> By saying ''noob'' or ''idiot'' doesn't get you banned alone, but continous use of insulting terms will eventually get you chat restricted, and then banned if you keep the same act. People who insult mothers, illness etc get banned much faster than people who use ''noob'' or ''idiot'' terms. And group bullying doesn't exist since premade reports don't mean anything more than a single report, and if someone gets triggered by premade harassers it's their own fault for giving into the flaming instead of muting the harassers in the first place. I don't know where you get the fact that you are stating. But here are evidences of unfairness and wrongfully bans below: 1. I have been permanently ban for asking report 2 times against a group of flamers. My chat log [here.](https://textuploader.com/d8kev) 2. This player n this [post](https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/aNx3s1Ej-unworthy-suspension) got banned when premade of 4 reported him. He hasn't talk at all. 3. Another player in this [post](https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/AhNPmP1b-so-apperantly-wishing-someone-death-and-ebola-and-the-like-is-not-punishable) has received death threat and virus curse, the flamers didn't get ban. > I don't see how you ''asked''. You used the word which seems to be an offensive term against others. I have written "@ Riot Games", It obviously asking them how it is offensive. > They aren't forced to show them, though a Rioter posted a while ago that they are still compiling data from the permaban experiment on NA still since there was so much of data, so it is possible it will become public at some point. It's their choice to do it in the way they are doing it. And what do you mean include you in their test? Just cause a thing works on let's say 5 persons out of 50 doesn't make it viable. If a company isn't showing reports publicly then it isn't working for the community. It has no transparency at all and isn't informing the community about their tests. You are stating a lot of RIot Games procedures, can you please states your source or have a Riot Games's staff confirmed it.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
Why is no staffs from Riot Games confirming this? He is saying statements with no facts and flame me that I don't show facts, this guy is hilarious.
Semirk0 (EUNE)
: Yea but i don't want to go to court just for some 14 day ban. I just can't understand why is it so hard for riot to either tell me what I am actually banned for or just simply unban me. If they feel like banning my 500 euro account omg go ahead. Don't expect me to play your game anymore but i am not going to make a big deal out of it. I am just surprised by their behavior. Refusing to communicate with me and treating me like garbage even tho i am the one who got harassed in game.
You are flagged in their system and next report is permanent ban. You have been bullied by 4 people and got punished. Seek legal advise on how to get a refund.
Semirk0 (EUNE)
: I don't want to follow anything. I am only speculating about the reason my account got banned, since i can't get an answer from support, or any answer at all.
Ask him how does he know Riot System since he isn't an employee. They were 4 premades and ypu get group report for nothing. It is bullying and you got punished. Asking for a refund because you got bullying isn't criminal. Save all your chat logs, emails and proofs. If customer services called you toxic, save it too. It is bullying and berating you a victim. Cyber bullying laws are more severe now. Go check legal advise , they would be more suitable to advise you than people from the internet.
Semirk0 (EUNE)
: Well, thank you for the information. I have absolutely no idea what to do. It's my first time seeing the system abused like that. I honestly don't even want to play this game anymore. It's sad enough that you can't even criticize your team if they screw up. But if I have to fear or getting bullied by random premades who decided to bully another player and even riot supporting it? Aren't they supposed to punish the bullies here? I seriously got bullied, harassed, banned without explanation and they refused to provide any assistance on that matter and outright told me to stop asking about it and I can't do anything about it? What if this was permaban for something i something I didn't even do?
They won't do anything about it. As you have seen on my posts, players trashes me when they don't have facts. I advised you not spending anything and request refunds if possible on your purchases. After 14 days ban, it is permanent ban. Save all your chat logs from the reform card and your tickets email. If they permanent ban your account and you have spent RL money, seek for legal advise.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
My permanent chat log [here](https://textuploader.com/d8kev). One example of unfair ban [here](https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/aNx3s1Ej-unworthy-suspension). There are a lot like this post on this board. EU Laws are above the TOU, try ask some lawyers.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
> Then, show the data supporting it. Or is personal experience valid as scientific proof only when it supports your bias? It is logical that someone that has his account taken from him/her would be more to trolling the game than prevent the person from talking. The person has his/her money stolen from them. > His statements have more weight than yours, because he could actually access Riot's data. Again, prove your statements. So far, you have done nothing of that sort. Yeah he is from the company but again the system fail and punish multiple victims. Still waiting that show these reports public since they say they work for the community. Permanent ban of accounts doesn't work. Evidences: A player get unfair ban [here](https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/aNx3s1Ej-unworthy-suspension). A player stating someone curse him offensive words and didn't get ban [here](https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/AhNPmP1b-so-apperantly-wishing-someone-death-and-ebola-and-the-like-is-not-punishable). > "Some" players, care to provide the exact quantity and their impact on reform rates? Or is that the kind of unsupported statement that's only valid because you claim it so, like everything you have claimed so far? I don't work like that, I provide links and facts for my arguments. I In the same post [here ](https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-en/X7XuY5uX-permanent-bans-of-accounts-should-be-removed-instead-permanent-ban-chats?comment=000400010001) below someone stated 1000 chat bans. > Contrary to what you might think, scientific research that's done seriously requires time to be compiled and peer-reviewed. Before Lyte quit, he stated that the result of that research would eventually be published. Actually I think logically, you are assuming facts about me when you don't know nothing about me. I would advise you to keep on topics rather than on my person, thank you. There are like 200 to 1000 chat bans from what I read in this post from players which were done in season 1 and 4. Riot Games should have plenty of times to completely and showed it to the community. Why didn't they show it? > Which part of "you bother other customers and being a paying one doesn't give you a free card to be a %%%% and demand your money back" isn't clear? It's very apparent you haven't read the ToU. ToU isn't above the Law. Since you seem to be confused about my reply. I will tell you about real facts that happened. I have received a permanent ban over this chat log [here](https://textuploader.com/d8kev). The chat log doesn't break any of the rules. They permanently ban my account because group of flamers reported me. Terminated an account of a victim calling help 2 times is clearly supporting bullying. Bullying is a criminal offense by EU and US laws, Since I have spent RL money and have my account terminated over calling for help against my bullies. They have broken the law. > Again, it has nothing to do with the current discussion. Bait and switch tactic, but it doesn't work here. On the other hand, it only demonstrates you haven't read the Universal Rules as well. Might I suggest you start actually reading what you sign up to? Otherwise, I have very bad news for your future job careers and house loans... This is my last reply to you. It's clear you're mirror climbing in order to not admit you have absolutely zero facts to support your opinion beyond the "I say it so it must be true" claim; the discussion keeps going in circles because you demand proof of contradicting statements, while failing to support yours. That's not how discussions work. I have 10+ years in multinational consulting firms and multinational companies. What about you? Not wasting my time to produce facts again. Can someone from Riot Games confirmed what he said about Riot Games can permanently ban accounts that hasn't been threatening or racist or asking for helping against bullies?
: So apperantly wishing someone death and ebola and the like is not punishable
I had been insulted and group bullying and got permanently ban for asking report the bullies 2 times. [Here](https://textuploader.com/d8kev) is my permanent ban chat log . They permanently ban players that call people insulting them "noobs" and "idiots" too. I don't see their logic in this. Permanently ban should be fore insult like you have mentioned in your post. Check my post about permanent ban [here](https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-en/X7XuY5uX-permanent-bans-of-accounts-should-be-removed-instead-permanent-ban-chats) and let me know what you think.
Semirk0 (EUNE)
: I see your point and it's my bad about the board placement. About the trolling. In previous post I explained my decisions. I was harassed by all 4 of these players since champ select. My support was stealing my farm. I honestly didn't care if we would swap with jax or swap entire lanes (me fiddle top, jax bot). I told him I was going top after I recalled and decided it would be the best thing to do in this situation. I forced my team into a good play. It's like starting an objective and your team doesn't follow. Do 4 players that didn't help get banned because they didn't listen to the call. Does the person who forced a call get banned for trolling because his 4 teammates didn't listen? I did what I could to win this game, Every play I made was correct and i will stand by it. If you think making a call that 4 other pleople don't agree with worthy of 14 day suspension it's your opinion. But I think it's not.
Group bullying is supported by their system. If more players report you and you single report, it is you who get ban. Check my posts: [Post 1](https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/Ip3juqXk-riot-games-support-bullies-and-ban-accounts-for-profit) [Post 2](https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-en/X7XuY5uX-permanent-bans-of-accounts-should-be-removed-instead-permanent-ban-chats) You already know how it is ingame. I had multiple players attacking me personally on this board, they didn't get anything. I have told someone that he is intolerant towards those holding different opinions because he called me toxic attacking me personally, got suspended for posting. I made a post to show evidence of my suspension here, post got deleted and suspended again for displaying private player info. The screenshots are post replies from this public board. Example of one the public post [here](https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/qfgAO4yj?comment=000000010000).
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
> Says whom? How can you be sure that people wouldn't start trolling instead? Why do you keep dodging this particular point, which was proven to have happened? And which was proven - by Tantram - that CRs on request have no benefit because people troll when they have no messages? Why do you keep missing that point? Do you need fancy statistical graph pics? People trolls more when their accounts are permanently ban. The point is to prevent toxic chat, permanent chat ban is the more logical solution. He didn't prove anything, he just said some statements. > You keep asking for proof but you consistently fail at backing up your own claims - it's not our job to prove you wrong; it's your job to prove yourself right. And so far, you have brought exactly ZERO evidence that that disabling chat completely is better - it's just a scientifically unsupported opinion, while previous iterations show that people don't need chat to still feel compelled to ruin other people's day. Some players said they had received 2000 chat bans and changed their behaviors, so basically it works. You are refuting a system and said it was already done There should be reports and tests results, where are they? Why doesn't Riot Games show them to the community? > Read the ToU that you signed, you'd find out there's no fraud involved. Or do you go around accusing restaurants of fraud if they kick you out after paying for dinner for dissing other customers? Dissing customers? They won't kick you out for asking someone to call the police on people harassing them or call the harassers "idiots". Would they? > How do you know they are? You made the claim - prove it. Funny enough, Riot has probably nothing to do with that. And this point has nothing to do with the topic at hand - so why bringing that up, at all? Huh? I have been suspended from posting on this board for stupid reasons. They suspended me for pointing out someone that called me toxic is intolerant towards those holding different opinions than him. I have been suspended again and my post deleted for making a post as evidence showing these suspension. Saying I show player privacy with my screenshots. The screenshots were public replies on the same board. Proof of one reply [here](https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/qfgAO4yj?comment=000000010000). That clearly shows that they are no good and not impartial in their judgement.
: Any result is a good result if people reform its possible you can't have everyone to reform I really care about this game and if you guys put me in this experiment I would prove to you :) but considering my luck I wont be in experiment. Your whole system for perma banning is bad why ban people for words no game does it this way yet LoL is one of the most toxic games out there only people that should get perma are people that hack cheat feed on purpose or expose private information that can't be stopped yet bad language can be stopped by pressing mute button experiment should spread beyond NA to give people the same chance why only NA idk but we love the game as much as they do even more people play on EU servers than NA. Thank you for this information I lost all my hope when the riot support sent me the ticket you game me some hope on this day. Good luck with the experiment and Merry Christmas
They want permanent ban players to make new accounts again to buy skins. I have proposed to permanently ban chats of real toxic people [here](https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-en/X7XuY5uX-permanent-bans-of-accounts-should-be-removed-instead-permanent-ban-chats) . Most of negative comments are probably from employees hiding behind player accounts. They just say it doesn't work and can't provides reports or test results. All companies that work for the community provide these information all the time, it is called transparency.
PH45 (EUNE)
: > What is "counterflaming" for you? Explaining players that their arguments are wrong or banter with him isn't flaming for me. Flaming is when players harass, threat and insult you. Counterflaming is as it sounds, just trying to insult the one who insults, or just in general trashtalking back to them. Sure explaining they are wrong or proving their arguments to be irrelevant is fine, but in general that doesn't do anything good since flamers are always quite delusional with their opinions. > For example Player A insults Player B because he got killed, Player B call him "noob" and explain how him how to play safe. I s educating someone that insults and don't know how to play safe bad? Anyway words like ''noob'', ''idiot'' doesn't deserve any permanent ban of someone account. No other games' company do that. League players aren't looking to get educated in-game. Especially people who already show negative behavior will only get more irritated if you try to tell them what to do. Telling someone they are a noob or an idiot is negative behavior. Now sure by itself it won't get you permabanned, but continuous bad behavior will. After a 14-day ban has been issued and you for example keep calling people ''noob'' or and ''idiot'' that can result in a perma, since 14-day ban is the last warning where you should absolutely not do anything negative after, since you've already had so many warnings and chances to reform. > Depend what you mean by a toxic player. I got thrashed and insulted on this board for asking facts and proofs by some forums members. They didn't get ban, did they? I had someone insult me about my RL person when it has nothing to do with a post and the arguments. I think these people are more toxic than players who just talk to players insulting them ingame. Boards is a different place than in-game. Though bad behavior isn't tolerated here either, it's much less observed. It can take a while before peoples comments are taken down or etc, but people get boards bans, threads removed etc. In general by a toxic player, I mean a player who affects games negatively with their attitude. This includes flaming, griefing, soft-inting, inting etc. To add a point I haven't said before, I think only permabanned players have an issue with permabans, and it's understandable. But the thing is they don't understand why they deserved it. Players who don't get punishments agree with permabanning negative behavior, while the negative community doesn't like it. If players use money on their accounts, they should realize they can lose access to it based on their actions, and yet they ignore that fact. Permamuting is basically like putting a bandage on a wound it can't cover completely. Sure it works a bit but it doesn't make the issue go away. Toxic people would find ways to express their bad behavior, just like the bandage couldn't hold the wound shut.
> Counterflaming is as it sounds, just trying to insult the one who insults, or just in general trashtalking back to them. Sure explaining they are wrong or proving their arguments to be irrelevant is fine, but in general that doesn't do anything good since flamers are always quite delusional with their opinions. Ok, thanks for clarifying "Counterflaming". You can't assume that all the flamers are delusional, some people might have a bad day or problems affecting their behaviors. Sometimes talking to them make them realized their mistakes. This is how you approach these people. Only people that deserve bans are people who insults mothers, illness threats, racism and death threats. > League players aren't looking to get educated in-game. You can't assume that all players don't want to to get educated. That is forcing judgement on all players assuming they are all the same. This behavior is call tyranny. > Especially people who already show negative behavior will only get more irritated if you try to tell them what to do. Telling someone they are a noob or an idiot is negative behavior. Now sure by itself it won't get you permabanned, but continuous bad behavior will. After a 14-day ban has been issued and you for example keep calling people ''noob'' or and ''idiot'' that can result in a perma, since 14-day ban is the last warning where you should absolutely not do anything negative after, since you've already had so many warnings and chances to reform. Someone has stated that Riot Games has 100 million players. The IFS system just collect chats and issues ban on some saying "noob" or "idiot, I doubt Riot Games check all games of one specific player, that person might have said it to stop a flamer arguments. It doesn't deserve a permanent ban and be called toxic or negative. That is insulting and bullying a player because that person just talk to someone. Other games company permanent ban players that have continuously insults mothers, illness threats, racism and death threats. Why doesn't Riot Games do the same? Since they have millions of reports(based on assumptions), they waste time for stupid reports like "noob" or "idiot". Group bullies and real toxic players are still here and people that aren't that offensive have their money stolen. > Boards is a different place than in-game. Though bad behavior isn't tolerated here either, it's much less observed. It can take a while before peoples comments are taken down or etc, but people get boards bans, threads removed etc. In general by a toxic player, I mean a player who affects games negatively with their attitude. This includes flaming, griefing, soft-inting, inting etc. I have been suspended 24hrs from posting on the board for asking Riot Games how is calling someone "bigot" when that person called me toxic for no reason. People that insulted my person didn't get anything. Evidence [here](https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/478399/the-guy-that-posted-the-bullying-post-on-lol-forums-has-been-suspended-till-1st-january-2019). > To add a point I haven't said before, I think only permabanned players have an issue with permabans, and it's understandable. But the thing is they don't understand why they deserved it. Players who don't get punishments agree with permabanning negative behavior, while the negative community doesn't like it. If players use money on their accounts, they should realize they can lose access to it based on their actions, and yet they ignore that fact. It is normal to get annoyed when you spend a money on this game and get permanent ban for stupid reasons. Money doesn't grow on trees. some people work hard to get it. Players that are against to remove permanent ban for insignificant words are either group bullies or in the clique. I doubt anyone with common sense would want a system that permanently ban an account over trivial reasons. There are group bullying in the game and single players get reported for stupid reasons even for talking. Just remove the complete chat since Riot Games and some people think anyone that doesn't follow their state of mind are toxic and flamers. > Permamuting is basically like putting a bandage on a wound it can't cover completely. Sure it works a bit but it doesn't make the issue go away. Toxic people would find ways to express their bad behavior, just like the bandage couldn't hold the wound shut. They don't show theirs test reports or investigations. Effective results are based on facts and reports, not just words from players or Riot Games. Why doesn't Riot Games include players like me in their test? People that work with facts, reports and common sense.
Zanador (EUNE)
: >Thanks for producing some facts. Permanent chat ban mean no chat at all, there are still limit on these chats from your facts. It is better to prevent the player from talking for a period of time than chat limits. Only real offensive and threatening players deserves a permanent ban on their accounts. That's why they are called "chat restrictions" in the first place. Anyway, this was before the time we had multiple ping options, so a everyone was allowed to have 5 lines of chat for at least a minimal communication. Riot also wanted to see if people would use that 5 lines on positive things. >Your statement and fact just prove my claim, Riot Games should focus on real offensive and threatening words in their system rather than simple words like "noobs" and "idiots". They have a huge player base and ban people over non real offensive words. Innocent players get banned and lose their account where they have spent their money. Other games' company only permanent ban over real offensive and threatening words when they have less player base. Why would a company that has a bigger player base, ban for any words? That doesn't make sense unless the company want the players to spend money on skins again. Again, the other differences you overlook is the age restriction. Pretty much everything Activision has is under 17+ category, while LoL is rated 12+. Riot has to be stricter with the language they allow here than a semi-historical FPS, that is already marketed for adults. >Actually no, I haven't seen a company like Riot Games in my life. I have 10+ years experiences in multinational consulting firms/firms and small companies, I have never seen a COO sexual harassed and fart on their employees. Who was talking about that in this thread? You keep bringing this mantra up completely randomly. So let's get some things in order for you: 1. If the accusations are true, then that guy is disgusting and should not be in a position of power ever again. 2. To quote you: "Have you work with Riot Games? If yes, what was your role? This seems to be internal Riot Games procedures." So have you worked in Riot's NA office? Have you personally witnessed this happening? Have you personally talked to a witness? If your answers are "No", then you are just blindly repeating something you have heard on the internet. 3. There have been enough accusations and evidence for Riot to issue some punishment. If you have private information that suggests that this punishment is not in line with what _actually happened_, then present them to either Riot or a lawyer. 4. The original source of this, Kotaku is known for twisting the facts in order to attract readers. Just a month before they jumped on Riot, they tried to smear ArenaNet very unjustly. Every other news site, including Reuters is only reporting on what Kotaku has reported, nobody else has done their research yet. 5. There is a thing called due process: Even if someone is most likely guilty, until it has been proven in a fair and just way, shouting accusations as if they were confirmed facts is defamation and slander. And that could be punished on it's own. 6. You keep treating the whole of Riot as if they were this one guy and they all supported him, sharing his behavior. That is flat out not true and you are in the wrong every time you talk about this. Ok,that out of the way, you kept asking for more sources. The problem is that i remember the things i read, but you are asking me to link a good 6 years worth of forum reading, videos and discussions. Even i don't have that kind of free time for you right now. Go do your research from this point on and come back when you found the information. You are mostly interested in old posts and videos by Lyte who was the head of the Player Behavior Team for years and was very open about the research and work they have done, and Riot Tantram, who worked on the current IFS, and as far as i know, he is the most knowledgeable and open source of information currently on the matter.
> That's why they are called "chat restrictions" in the first place. Anyway, this was before the time we had multiple ping options, so a everyone was allowed to have 5 lines of chat for at least a minimal communication. Riot also wanted to see if people would use that 5 lines on positive things. This post is suggesting permanent chat bans, you are talking about limits. Permanent chat bans is prevent chat at all, no limit. > Again, the other differences you overlook is the age restriction. Pretty much everything Activision has is under 17+ category, while LoL is rated 12+. Riot has to be stricter with the language they allow here than a semi-historical FPS, that is already marketed for adults. Other games company don't permanent ban an account over stupid chats, they permanent ban an account over hacking and real insults. How lame can a company be for steal money from 12+ years old? > Who was talking about that in this thread? You keep bringing this mantra up completely randomly. So let's get some things in order for you: 1.If the accusations are true, then that guy is disgusting and should not be in a position of power ever again. Read the article the CEO acknowledged and said the COO is working on a change. That happened in 2018, for 8 years, what has he been doing? There are multiple articles of their employees sending photos of their genitalia to women. 2.To quote you: "Have you work with Riot Games? If yes, what was your role? This seems to be internal Riot Games procedures." So have you worked in Riot's NA office? Have you personally witnessed this happening? Have you personally talked to a witness? If your answers are "No", then you are just blindly repeating something you have heard on the internet. I work in companies that have international standards, ethics and transparencies. Even in small companies I haven't seen this at all, this is dumbfounding to a higher level. I have seen what they did to me. They punished me ingame when I get multiple players harassing and insulting that get nothing. They suspended me from the board for telling a guy that he is intolerant towards those holding different opinions because he called me toxic and berated me. They suspended me again from the board for making a post of the above statement and showed screens of the posts which are public posts in this same board. This is clearly unfairness and some players are protected. > 4.The original source of this, Kotaku is known for twisting the facts in order to attract readers. Just a month before they jumped on Riot, they tried to smear ArenaNet very unjustly. Every other news site, including Reuters is only reporting on what Kotaku has reported, nobody else has done their research yet. Multiple news source have reported, multiple people are suing them. Read above what they did to me. > You keep treating the whole of Riot as if they were this one guy and they all supported him, sharing his behavior. That is flat out not true and you are in the wrong every time you talk about this. Players that just talk against bullies get bans, that isn't the same thing. Of course, not all employees are like that. The good ones don't have any say at all from the look of it. > Ok,that out of the way, you kept asking for more sources. The problem is that i remember the things i read, but you are asking me to link a good 6 years worth of forum reading, videos and discussions. Even i don't have that kind of free time for you right now. Go do your research from this point on and come back when you found the information. You are mostly interested in old posts and videos by Lyte who was the head of the Player Behavior Team for years and was very open about the research and work they have done, and Riot Tantram, who worked on the current IFS, and as far as i know, he is the most knowledgeable and open source of information currently on the matter. This post is about removing permanent ban of accounts and include permanent ban chat. If you want to refute it, need reports and tests results. Your words alone isn't enough. When someone propose a new system and another person just denies over words isn't logical.
Gabresol (EUW)
: The chat is a tool used to communicate with your team. If a players in incapable of doing so it cripples the line of communications in one team. So just by getting matched with these players you would be at an disatvantage.
There are always heat exchanges in 90% of the games. Just permanent ban chat of someone that is really toxic. They bans all kind of chats and call you toxic. Most games company only permanent ban an account if someone hacks, cheats or racism and threatening. They want you to spend money again.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
> Except it was tested, and for a time people could request chat restrictions, but it was found the benefits were basically null. Why do you believe that no chat would change the results of enjoying 5 lines of chat only? People would still troll and intentionally feed even if they had zero chat lines, because that's what happened when they finished their allotted 5 messages. If Riot Games would show their reports about this, then we can see clearly. A company for the community always show most of their research and figures to the public, it is called transparency. Disable chat completely is better than the actual system, no flaming at. A permanent ban toxic player will make a new account and destroy the new players and make want to quit the game. As you have said the players come back, so permanent ban of accounts doesn't work. > Except there's no theft involved. In the contract you sign, it's stated that all your purchases are final. And you get the RP. The same contract which tells you the rules to enjoy the game without being banned from it. If someone didn't spend RL money, they can do what they want. When RL money is involved and terminating the account over stupid reasons, it is called a fraud. All games company ban accounts over racism, threats and real insults. > Those employees aren't in the player behaviour team, so it's like you're complaining about soccer referees judging chess matches. Some employees had sent photos of their genitals to women. [Source](https://dotesports.com/league-of-legends/news/riot-games-lol-sexual-harassment-misogyny-31915) How do you know they aren't the player behavior team? I have been suspended for some days on this board for telling someone who called me toxic that is intolerant towards those holding different opinions. Suspended more for showing screenshots of the posts on this same board which is public. So you can see there is unfairness and some players are protected
: Your Freedom of Speech was negative and thats why it lead into banning your account.
People insulted me and I told one that he is intolerant towards those holding different opinions, got suspended on the boards. Made a post about it and showed screenshots of public posts of the person, suspended again. This shows you are unfair they are and some people seems to be protected.
: > [{quoted}](name=Rynor,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=qfgAO4yj,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-24T10:55:02.451+0000) > > I guess you think your only words are righteous lol. Pot, meet kettle.
Nope, logic and common sense against only words as facts. He called me toxic, that is shaming towards me. I got suspended and he gets nothing. Example of unfairness right here on the board.
: That is incorrect. Lifted bans are wiped from your history entirely and do not have any lasting effect.
It wasn't for me, still got a permanent ban after the 2 weeks mistaken ban.
PH45 (EUNE)
: Nice evidence :D
They suspended me again for 24 hours and deleted the post. [Here](https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/ysshIrMG-got-suspended-for-asking-riot-games-a-question-and-people-that-insult-me-get-nothing) is the post again. What do you think about that?
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
I have been suspended yesterday from the board for 24 hours and other people that insulted me didn't get anything. Evidence [here](https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/dWTqX0BP-riot-games-ban-support-bullies-and-ban-innocent-on-board-too)
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
> Except it's not a random thing, and how come only your personal experience counts as facts, while everyone else's doesn't? Isn't it a tad hypocritical? Do you have proof supporting your opinions, since you keep asking it of others? I think you got my statement wrong of saying that I didn't see it as a fact, it was just my observations. The post is to propose a system to permanent ban chats, so if people said it was here and didn't work, we need to see the reports and facts. What proof of you asking me? If you are refuting a propose system, it is you who need to provide the facts. You are asking someone to provide proof of something that he thinks hasn't been test, where is the logic in that? > Beside that you already got someone talking about their own or their friend's chat restrictions, and if you look for threads from 2014 you'll see people boasting about their 500-2500 CRs, so the facts are there. The only one who talked about the experiment beyond the boasting user threads was Lyte, but his ask.fm was taken down ages ago. That was also the major source of information on the IFS and zero tolerance system, and Riot Tantram has released more info on the NA boards, so you can simply search for his posts if you want more "proof" on "internal procedures". Permanent chat ban means no chat at all, not with some limits. When people implement a system, they perform tests and write reports. It is logical to want see those reports of the test scenarios and results. From there, we can really judge if a system works or not. If Riot Games was working for the community all these tests and reports would have been made public. This is call transparency. You are free to believe words and other things. But innocent people are having their account permanently ban and their money stolen from them. These people are annoyed of the injustice occurring for them. What is your opinion on the following? Multiple articles show that Riot Games have bullied and sexual harassed their employees. Do you think these people are suitable to judge punishments?
Zymexx (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Rynor,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=qfgAO4yj,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2018-12-24T10:31:37.701+0000) > > He is assuming facts about Kotaku and over sources without any proofs lol. Here is an article from Business Insider saying what women are suing Riot Games for [Riot Games sexual harassment](https://www.businessinsider.com/riot-games-sexism-discrimination-lawsuit-2018-11?IR=T). > > I think he is from Riot Games, there are some like him hiding behind community accounts to thrash players remarks about them. They are cowards that can only punish people for expressing their views. They are just stating claims with no facts or proofs. I trust Kotakus journalism more than I trust Riots employees and you making this comment.
Yeah in whole the TOS is good but the employees twist it to their advantage which is most of the time fallacies. Most players don't know law or how it works, they are fooled.
ZereFbg (EUNE)
: Even if my account gets unbanned I still wouldn't spent a single dollar on the game. Unless they see how stupid their system is and how unfair it is to punish players for such reasons with punishments that lead to perma ban. Once they change the system to something that is not this ridiculous then I will support them. If they admit to the fact that perma banning players makes the situation worse instead of helping it then I will stop giving them shit on the boards
Right, permanent ban of accounts doesn't solved anything. Innocent players get more banned, since the toxic players are in group since 2010. Riot Games said they do this for the community and they never show the results of their reports or tests. Some people said that the group of players that are take part in their tests are the same players in their clique. A true company that is working for the community would make their punishment procedures, tests and reports public. That what is is call transparency.
: Do you have proof of that? lmao bro in s3 or s4 i have been chatbanned for 256 games then 12 games after that another 124 then after again 200+
Permanent chat ban means no chat at all, you had limits still. If someone is toxic after 4 or 5 times, permanent ban his account from chatting the whole season or permanently.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
I only stated what I haven't seen, I never got a permanent chat ban. You claimed there was permanent chat ban, can you provide a source or something for this claim? Since the post is about introducing permanent chat ban instead of permanent account ban, facts would help if you said it was here. Just claiming random things, doesn't help at all.
PH45 (EUNE)
: > Innocent players that aren't flamers or trolls are getting ban. Banning a player account over non threatening or offensive words is not normal and steal their money. Only real flamers and threatening people should be banned. What do you mean innocent? If you mean by someone who is counterflaming that isn't innocent. > In the point 2. of this post, I have discussed about it. Have you not read it? Innocent people are getting ban everyday due to group bullying. There system could be set to detect trolling, afk and offensive people but no they banned people that says "noob" ," idiot" or "report" to people telling them they don't know how to play. Report calling is considered negative act, also how does saying ''noob'', ''idiot'' etc contribute to the game in any meaningful way? All it does is make the team more triggered and frustrated. It's already enough if the one person on the team is telling someone they can't play, the person who is targeted doesn't need to engage that conversation in any way, > How do you know about this? Can you show a fact? Do you enjoy playing next to a toxic player? Because I sure don't and I think most people enjoy a match where no one is taking the focus away from the game to talk nonsense in chat that doesn't' contribute positively to anything. All they do is bring the team morale down. And as the point I borrowed from Riot Tantram, he said Riot doesn't want toxic players to play, they want them to stop playing.
> What do you mean innocent? If you mean by someone who is counterflaming that isn't innocent. What is "counterflaming" for you? Explaining players that their arguments are wrong or banter with him isn't flaming for me. Flaming is when players harass, threat and insult you. > Report calling is considered negative act, also how does saying ''noob'', ''idiot'' etc contribute to the game in any meaningful way? All it does is make the team more triggered and frustrated. It's already enough if the one person on the team is telling someone they can't play, the person who is targeted doesn't need to engage that conversation in any way, For example Player A insults Player B because he got killed, Player B call him "noob" and explain how him how to play safe. I s educating someone that insults and don't know how to play safe bad? Anyway words like ''noob'', ''idiot'' doesn't deserve any permanent ban of someone account. No other games' company do that. > Do you enjoy playing next to a toxic player? Because I sure don't and I think most people enjoy a match where no one is taking the focus away from the game to talk nonsense in chat that doesn't' contribute positively to anything. All they do is bring the team morale down. And as the point I borrowed from Riot Tantram, he said Riot doesn't want toxic players to play, they want them to stop playing. Depend what you mean by a toxic player. I got thrashed and insulted on this board for asking facts and proofs by some forums members. They didn't get ban, did they? I had someone insult me about my RL person when it has nothing to do with a post and the arguments. I think these people are more toxic than players who just talk to players insulting them ingame.
IStein (EUNE)
: I indeed did not know the difference between green name and red name, my mistake, but I did "bark" for him for supporting the company. To answer your questions: I was around when the 1000+ games worth of chat restriction was a thing. I remember that period being the "peak" of toxicity in this game, but I do not think that it was due to this restriction, people were toxic with or without chat restriction, my explanation is that in that period the game was still very popular among everyone. Everywhere I went, I could bond with people because there was a high chance that they were playing league, so I guess it is normal to have all sorts of different people in such a huge community since it had so many players, including toxic ones, and they could easily influence or frustrate good players, so they "spread" toxicity. Now, I do not thing that every company bans accounts in this matter. Yes racism should be a reason to ban someone, but I don't think you can impersonate an employee since they have the "riot" tag on their name, but even so, I still don't see this as an action that deserves banning. Angry people don't buy "more stuff". Their anger (if they did not quit the game in the first place, like they should, after the first ban) will go away and they will likely buy the same stuff that they had on their banned accounts all over again. If you don't agree, you should watch shaclone channel, where he specifically says that. Plus every streamer that was banned and came back to league, invested money in the game all over again. Hots lets you choose a bundle for those 20 champions, you can choose between sets of 20 champions, and this solves the issues since you can play ranked without having to wait to unlock the champions you want (because if you unlock only champions to have the required number, you won't have the desired options when the champions that you actually play are banned), this fact makes me not care about their boxes, the boxes are just extra stuff. Let me put it this way: I am a new player. I chose to play both games, Hots and Lol, ok? At some point I reach level 30 and I want to play ranked. Hots gives me the option to have a least a number of champions that I can and WANT to play, so I am happy with them, also 20 champions is more than enough for me AS A NEW PLAYER, to keep me occupied while making money to buy other champions. League forces me to buy one champion and play it till I get bored out of my %%%%ing mind, and IF AND ONLY IF I'm lucky, I will get a capsule with a champion that I want to play next, but that again, if I have the essence for it, which is again bullshit, because they still require quite some essence to unlock loot content. And this is not all, I still have to spend months after I got level 30 to unlock the 20 champions THAT I WANT to have in order to play ranked. So a new player is very likely to quit the game even before he gets to unlock his second champion, because it take too much time to do it. So yeah, other mobas are doing WAY better in this matter, and riot proves how greedy they are compared to other companies. Ok, the average player is 20, do you consider 20 being a mature age? Would you let a 20 years old make decisions for your game, decisions that influences the whole community? What makes the game toxic: I said it but I did not explained it more: the balance in the game. Riot has TOXIC CHAMPIONS, what are those you may ask? The champions that are so frustrating to play against that it's just unfair, and the player who plays that champion refuses to think so, he thinks he is a god in terms of skills, and tilts you even harder. This is a big reason that makes people flame: he plays akali and says "easy", ofc you get angry and frustrated because you know the champion is stronger by a lot than the average. Riot balance team is simply a big joke, you don't believe me? Watch the qtpie and scarra recent video on "balancing adc" where they hosted two members of the balance team. You can see from their attitude how involved they are in the game, it actually hurts hearing them. PLUS, pro players said (this is the video as well) that they love to play adc for example in pro play or streams, but in solo q NO WAY. Their words: "solo q is actually garbage" qt says it. So why is it garbage, because the balance is a joke. Another example, look how %%%%ing long Zoe was op before they decided to give her a nerf. You want another example? Hai the ex midlaner of C9 played teemo a few years ago, and a BALANCE TEAM MEMBER TOLD HIM: "I hate that you played teemo, he is OP in solo q but now that you played him and more people know, we actually have to nerf him" so basically as long the whole community is not aware of this bullshit that is happening in the game, they don't have to do their job, which is proper balance. Next is matchmaking system. The game should be balance in terms of team's skills right, or lp? I still have a game in my mind where my adc was gold 4, their adc was plat 4, my support was gold 2, their support was plat 4. Explain to me in what world do the two gold bot players win against the plat players. And it wasn't like there was a compensation in the team, like my jungle mid or top was like high above the other team, no, it was maximum equal. And there are tons of games like this, so their matchmaking system is TOXIC AND UNFAIR. There you go, I explained to you why the game is a toxic environment. And my friend, regarding the video I provided as evidence: what do you mean by "oh quote me a constructive line", the guy was OBVIOUSLY ANGRY, AND UNFAIRLY BANNED, he respected the rules and he still got banned. That was the point of the video, not making "constructive criticism". And this is not a %%%%ing job or a real social circumstance, it's a %%%%ing video game. If I am sarcastic with another player, it doesn't mean I'm gonna be sarcastic with my boss, or employer. Like you said, there are social boundaries that you have to respect, I'm not with my boss they way I am with my partner, and I'm not with my partner the way I am with a random player of league of legends, so your argument is invalid in this matter. P.S. Here, another link to no reason ban, but hey, AI machine learning ooooh boy, we are so fancy, right riot. I am literally disgusted by this company the more I research about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NfWS33k_6g
Feel free to give your opinions fellow player. You are also providing good supporting facts also, thank you for that. Scott Gelb, Chief Operating Officer(COO) of Riot Games is 48 years old. He farts on his employees and grabs their genitals at the place of work. That shows you age doesn't matter. COO is just under the CEO, the person that approve of procedures. Yes, the punishment system was probably him who approved it.
: > [{quoted}](name=Rynor,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=qfgAO4yj,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2018-12-24T10:31:37.701+0000) > > He is assuming facts about Kotaku and over sources without any proofs lol. Literally in my comment: > I'm not saying everything they put out is like this, and I must clarify that this isn't an indictment of Kotaku as a whole Sorry, which one of us was going off of assumptions again? Pot, meet kettle.
You are assuming Kotaku article is only about getting viewers. There are dozen of media posting the same thing. A source from Reuters [here](https://www.reuters.com/article/esports-lol-riot-gelb/reports-riot-games-suspends-coo-idUSKBN1OD0GS). Is Reuters seeking sensationalism too? Is it normal for you for a COO which 48 years old to fart and sexual grabs their employee genitals?
Zanador (EUNE)
: >I have never seen that and been playing since season 1. Do you have proofs of that? Feel free to google terms like "league of legends 1000+ chat restriction" and such. There were thousands of them on the boards for months. Some examples: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2v71ew/a_message_from_a_500game_chat_restricted_player/ http://forums.euw.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1925036 https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/37w0xn/just_finished_my_1900_chat_restrictions_played_a/ You can look for more if you are interested, or i could link more if you want me to. >How do you know about that? What are your sources? For which part do you want sources? The player numbers were public, for example in this article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2016/09/13/riot-games-reveals-league-of-legends-has-100-million-monthly-players/#3e535b585aa8 It is estimated that due to a, to say the least, problematic season 8 and new popular games like Fortnite luring players away, League has lost a significant amount of player this year. The best unofficial estimates put the current active player number between 81 million and 95 million, that's why i used those numbers in my calculation. As a comparison, if you read the article from Forbes i linked now, it says that most other popular big games have around 10-15 million players. WoW at it's peak had somewhere between 15 and 17 million, and it is the biggest number for an MMORPG ever since. >If what you are saying is right, it is also possible they don't investigates single player reports against mass reports of a group of players. Hence, group bullying is still present. The automated system, the IFS checks every report. That is the whole point of it. The previous systems like manual reviewing by Rioters or the Tribunal couldn't do that fast enough. >The IFS system is clearly bad. Why not make a system to take only report of racism, death threat, mother insults and illness threat in consideration? The "zero tolerance list" of racism, death threats and such is not even handled by the IFS. Well, not really. Riot basically just uses an upgraded search algorithm for these kinds of things and already handles them separately. >Verifying tickets where some people call others with simple words like "Noobs" or "Idiot" are a waste of time. Focus on the real toxic people. Most games' companies do that. What is your guess, how what percentage of the people who just say "noob" or "idiot" is really toxic and does other things too? Just give me an estimate. And again, if you check the Forbes article, you'll see that other whole companies have fewer players than League does. Activision is listed to have had 55 million players in all their games combined in that year, so their job was almost twice as easy as Riots, and you can just look at the reputation of CoD players to see how effective they were. Of course Riot needs to improve a lot. But you can't really say that everyone else is doing a better job at this either. >You are admitting the computer can review perfectly the bans. How do you know their system? Unfair punishment are reported via tickets, this should be investigated. Customer support only reply is "You have been permanently ban by the system, we can't do anything" and flame you that you are toxic. That doesn't seem a fair approached to me. I have no personal experience with the player support, so i can only speak about what i've seen on the boards and forums. And yes, i know i have seen at least 3 or 5 cases where someone was banned and i didn't agree with the result, but in the other thousands of threads, people try to downplay their faults or just look for excuses for bad behavior. I agree that the current system needs improvements. Especially some clarity would be nice from Riot's side, because despite everything, a lot of people clearly still don't know the exact rules and the way punishments are handled here. >As the TOS said if someone is offensive and threatening, like racism or death threats, those are worth permanent ban. Banning a person account for saying "noob" or "idiot" isn't a hard insult or threatening at all. Terminating an account over simple words like that, look like stealing the person money. Look up the TOS properly. Riot already "stole" your money the moment you sent it to them, because the account you use is legally theirs. This is due to the strangeness of international and USA law, but every single account is owned by Riot, not the players. This is how every single game company is forced to do it because of the legal systems. In other words, game companies never sells you anything. They let you borrow the right to use some of their things for money. Legally they don't steal from you if they ban you, they just remove your right to borrow their items. Yes, legal systems are not based on human logic, and they can be pretty disgusting at times, especially if you look into them. But again, Riot and the other companies are forced to work this way by law.
> Feel free to google terms like "league of legends 1000+ chat restriction" and such. There were thousands of them on the boards for months. Some examples: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2v71ew/a_message_from_a_500game_chat_restricted_player/ http://forums.euw.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1925036 https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/37w0xn/just_finished_my_1900_chat_restrictions_played_a/ You can look for more if you are interested, or i could link more if you want me to. Thanks for producing some facts. Permanent chat ban mean no chat at all, there are still limit on these chats from your facts. It is better to prevent the player from talking for a period of time than chat limits. Only real offensive and threatening players deserves a permanent ban on their accounts. > For which part do you want sources? The player numbers were public, for example in this article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2016/09/13/riot-games-reveals-league-of-legends-has-100-million-monthly-players/#3e535b585aa8 It is estimated that due to a, to say the least, problematic season 8 and new popular games like Fortnite luring players away, League has lost a significant amount of player this year. The best unofficial estimates put the current active player number between 81 million and 95 million, that's why i used those numbers in my calculation. As a comparison, if you read the article from Forbes i linked now, it says that most other popular big games have around 10-15 million players. WoW at it's peak had somewhere between 15 and 17 million, and it is the biggest number for an MMORPG ever since. So it just assumption based on an average number. How do you how their ticket system works? You have claimed specific number of tickets that they received daily without having a seen their customer service or procedures. It would be more upfront if a Riot Games's official could support your figures. > The automated system, the IFS checks every report. That is the whole point of it. The previous systems like manual reviewing by Rioters or the Tribunal couldn't do that fast enough. I would like to see an official report on that, any Riot Games' official can provide that? Any transparent company working for the community would do that. > The "zero tolerance list" of racism, death threats and such is not even handled by the IFS. Well, not really. Riot basically just uses an upgraded search algorithm for these kinds of things and already handles them separately. Have you work with Riot Games? If yes, what was your role? This seems to be internal Riot Games procedures, can Riot Games publish the official procedure for more transparency? > What is your guess, how what percentage of the people who just say "noob" or "idiot" is really toxic and does other things too? Just give me an estimate. And again, if you check the Forbes article, you'll see that other whole companies have fewer players than League does. Activision is listed to have had 55 million players in all their games combined in that year, so their job was almost twice as easy as Riots, and you can just look at the reputation of CoD players to see how effective they were. Of course Riot needs to improve a lot. But you can't really say that everyone else is doing a better job at this either. Your statement and fact just prove my claim, Riot Games should focus on real offensive and threatening words in their system rather than simple words like "noobs" and "idiots". They have a huge player base and ban people over non real offensive words. Innocent players get banned and lose their account where they have spent their money. Other games' company only permanent ban over real offensive and threatening words when they have less player base. Why would a company that has a bigger player base, ban for any words? That doesn't make sense unless the company want the players to spend money on skins again. > Look up the TOS properly. Riot already "stole" your money the moment you sent it to them, because the account you use is legally theirs. This is due to the strangeness of international and USA law, but every single account is owned by Riot, not the players. This is how every single game company is forced to do it because of the legal systems. In other words, game companies never sells you anything. They let you borrow the right to use some of their things for money. Legally they don't steal from you if they ban you, they just remove your right to borrow their items. They own the accounts true. But when a customer spends money on a service and the service is removed over stupid reasons, it consider a scam or fraud. That is the law is the majority of countries. > Yes, legal systems are not based on human logic, and they can be pretty disgusting at times, especially if you look into them. But again, Riot and the other companies are forced to work this way by law Actually no, I haven't seen a company like Riot Games in my life. I have 10+ years experiences in multinational consulting firms/firms and small companies, I have never seen a COO sexual harassed and fart on their employees. Lack of ethics and transparency are dumbfounding and they bullies players that have been ban for stupid reasons calling them toxic. The TOS isn't badly written, but they twisted it to their own advantage. Their leadership bullies their own employees, go search how many cases there are this year only. Makes you wonder what they have been doing since season 1. Leadership of a company decide the direction of a company, if it is corrupted, their punishment system isn't trustworthy.
: > [{quoted}](name=Beatenbynoob,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=dtAVy66c,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-12-24T14:16:11.898+0000) > > Hello for anyone who is wondering about the NA unban experiment it failed lol like the one before and will not be expanded into EU or any other region I got this info from riot support :( Hey, just to quickly jump on this. There was a miscommunication coming from my colleague in the ticket with you. We have not yet determined if the experiment we ran in NA was successful or not. We are in a process of collecting data, interpreting them and assessing how it went. When we have solid result which is backed by the data we can talk about success or failure :). As if this comes to EU, that is also unsure for now (depends a lot on the results once we find them out). For now its not a no but it is not a yes either :). I am sorry for the slight confusion there. Lets call it a bad influence from Grinch :P. Merry Christmas to all of you!
Hello, Is there anywhere where we can follow the test or see the reports? Since your company affirms that they do things for the community. Is there any transparency about those tests?
Zanador (EUNE)
: Do you want people to be able to buy protection from punishment with money? If no, then the amount of money one spends on the account should not be relevant in the punishment. Just imagine the scenario where someone flames you the whole game and tells you to do horrible things to your family, then he proceeds to tell you that he is allowed to do this because he paid 100 dollars and won't be banned now. My guess is that it would make you damn furious. And Riot has conducted several experiments on giving perma banned people a chance to get their accounts back if they prove that the have learned their lesson and improved their behavior. So far people failed these tests, but just recently one of these experiment ended and Riot is gathering and analyzing the data they got on the NA server. Check a Rioter's comment on it in this thread: https://boards.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/dtAVy66c-na-unban-experiment-has-failed You might have missed it, since the post was written only today.
> Do you want people to be able to buy protection from punishment with money? If no, then the amount of money one spends on the account should not be relevant in the punishment. Just imagine the scenario where someone flames you the whole game and tells you to do horrible things to your family, then he proceeds to tell you that he is allowed to do this because he paid 100 dollars and won't be banned now. My guess is that it would make you damn furious. I never said that real bullies and offensive people shouldn't be banned. I have said players that call bullies "idiot", "noob" or ask to report them, simple words like that, these players don't deserve a permanent ban and treated badly. This is stealing money from them. It obviously people that are really offensive should get perma ban. > And Riot has conducted several experiments on giving perma banned people a chance to get their accounts back if they prove that the have learned their lesson and improved their behavior. So far people failed these tests, but just recently one of these experiment ended and Riot is gathering and analyzing the data they got on the NA server. Check a Rioter's comment on it in this thread: https://boards.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/dtAVy66c-na-unban-experiment-has-failed You might have missed it, since the post was written only today. Thank for that, let see if they do some transparency.
: Well I got perma banned and I aint speding a euro at this game anymore
Sad thing is, millions of players spending money on this game and a lot of getting ban for no good reasons and their money stolen.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
How is it not good? Innocent players are getting insulted as toxic and their account stolen from them since 8 years.
TheHammy (EUNE)
: ***
> If toxic players can't flame because chat is take away they start acting out and inting or doing other bad stuff, that has been tried and proven, just because you don't remember or see it doesn't mean it never happened. Can you show a proof or fact about this claim? > A automated system check the chats so there's no waste of time there and everything is instant, that's why humans are took out from equation to speed things up and punishments are given base on the severity, "idiot, noobs etc" receive if they are often and destructive just a small 5 games chat suspension, and very extreme cases as xenophobes, racist, threatening are given directly 14 days account suspension form which its just a small and easy way for permanent ban (this is very fair to give people a second chance but in same time give a very hard punishment ) How do you know about this? Can you show a report or official documents? Most of thing that you are claiming are just words, can you produce proofs? > Abut articles and other bulshits, word is not perfect and companies are not perfect in fact far from it special big corporations, bad humans exist everywhere in every company and every system, there are pedofile priests, pedofile peopel that supose to be chiled protection service, thieves and corruption in police, money greedy doctors, psychopaths doctors, corrupt judges and whores nuns. COO of the company is just under the CEO. He is the person that validate procedures and the ban system. He bullied and sexual harassed his own staffs. How a bully decide which punishment system is better?
PH45 (EUNE)
: > Players getting their accounts permanently ban are more prone to troll games and bullies others. Permanent ban accounts for stupid reasons where the person has spent money isn't normal. Only scam and fraud companies do that. Permanently banned players show consistently negative behavior, and that isn't likely to change no matter what is done. Riot want them removed from the game and so do everyone who isn't toxic. Spending money gives no privilege to players, and it absolutely shouldn't. It's the persons own fault if they go to get their account banned for not following the common rules. > Permanent mute someone, the person can't type, no toxicity. You permanent ban an account, the person will be more vengeful. The person can't make another account and troll the game. Why do you think their servers get massive DDOS? Did you not even read what Riot Tantram posted? Anyways, toxicity isn't only typing. Actions are also toxic, like inting and griefing, afking etc. People who are vengeful because of a permaban are just childish since they haven't been able to act maturely in the first place, thus getting their account taken away. > The person can't make another account and troll the game. ? In my opinion toxic people don't need any more loopholes to stay in the game. Riot doesn't want them, other players don't want them. I sure as hell don't want them. Permabans will stay since no other action has proven to be functional.
> Permanently banned players show consistently negative behavior, and that isn't likely to change no matter what is done. Riot want them removed from the game and so do everyone who isn't toxic. Spending money gives no privilege to players, and it absolutely shouldn't. It's the persons own fault if they go to get their account banned for not following the common rules. Innocent players that aren't flamers or trolls are getting ban. Banning a player account over non threatening or offensive words is not normal and steal their money. Only real flamers and threatening people should be banned. > Did you not even read what Riot Tantram posted? Anyways, toxicity isn't only typing. Actions are also toxic, like inting and griefing, afking etc. People who are vengeful because of a permaban are just childish since they haven't been able to act maturely in the first place, thus getting their account taken away. In the point 2. of this post, I have discussed about it. Have you not read it? Innocent people are getting ban everyday due to group bullying. There system could be set to detect trolling, afk and offensive people but no they banned people that says "noob" ," idiot" or "report" to people telling them they don't know how to play. > In my opinion toxic people don't need any more loopholes to stay in the game. Riot doesn't want them, other players don't want them. I sure as hell don't want them. Permabans will stay since no other action has proven to be functional. How do you know about this? Can you show a fact?
Smerk (EUW)
: My friend had such punishment. it wasn't really permanent mute, just huge amount of chat restricted games. He had like 2k+ and didn't really stopped being toxic. Plus there were ranked restrictions as well, for 10 or 25 games, you had to play normals. Wasn't a fun time with all frustrated players that couldn't scratch their competitive itch because of that. That system was there in seasons 3-4 I think for quite long time. I'm not sure how you could miss it.
I remember this solution in place. They do a lot of test and don't inform the community at all what was been carry out and they say they act for the community when there is no transparency. If someone is that toxic, disable the person chat completely. That won't affect anybody. I seriously doubt someone will troll over permanent chat ban but someone do, ban ranked games for the whole season and proof where the player troll. Seeing how the customer support twist every TOS rules to suit them, I doubt their will be fairness. Riot Games also has internal problems where employees reported there are bullying and favoritism in their company. Any ethical or transparent company would disable their system till they are sorted out. As you can see a lot of vote are against this idea. Do you think any normal players outside RIot Games or protected by them would vote against it? I highly doubt.
TheHammy (EUNE)
: ***
> If you play the game since season 1 should know they made something similar in which players got thousands of games with chat restriction, and all they did when they could not speak is to ruin the game in a much more destructive form by intentional feed, dance near fights and so on. I have seen 1 or 2 trolls but I doubt it is because of chat bans mostly because their money has stolen from them. I have seen trolls feed and dance without typing anything, will report work on them? People feel more rage when someone has stolen their money than prevent them chat. I doubt someone would troll for chat bans. > This is the best solution for me also (not investigation since it take time), thing is they tried something similar in past, where they forced people to WIN (not only play) a number of games in Normal Draft before having rank enable again. I assume this did not work also or impacted to bad the normal games since they gave up on this solution, but for me this was the best solution. They have lot of cases daily. They should have set their system to report mostly real offensive and threatening chats. Checking report from people calling "idiots" and "noobs" in chat is a waste of time. They should focus on real offensive people and trollers. > this is not true this is a myth, if you behave and not break the the rules you will never be punish no matter how many reports to receive, the number of reports does not matter That isn't a myth. If a group of friends harassed you and they report you. You are flagged as offensive by their system then anything you tell the bullies are retaliation. Customer support says you are toxic and you offend people. I have experienced it and seen it multiple times. From various articles this year, Riot Games seems to have bully and harasses their own staffs. I have made a post [here](https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/jwTRL8HF-riot-games-employees-behaviours) talking about it. After all that going on in their company, do you think they are suitable to judge people behaviors? > Will riot give them 14 days directly, which i think is better than directly permanent ban, to give a last chance to somebody to improve their attitude. Only people that are really offensive and out of the line deserve permanent bans.
PH45 (EUNE)
: > Where has it been tested and when? Can you show the report? Multiple times the volunteers in the boards here have told the same thing. I personally haven't seen the results but I'm sure Riot wouldn't lie about that. > Group of bullies report a single player because the person doesn't perform like they want. They honor each over and don't get punished. Terminating an account doesn't solve that. Group reports don't matter any more than a single report. False reports don't do anything either and honoring premades affect honor level less than honors from randoms, also honoring doesn't counteract getting reported. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/d2M1uX57-instant-noreason-permanent-ban?comment=000400030003 Riot Tantram answering: > This isn't framed properly. Banning problem players means more people enjoy their experience. Not banning problem players means players will quit due to poor experiences. Permanent mutes aren't an answer. Players that want to lash out and cannot due it via chat, will do it through other methods. We have a lot of data backing this up. We don't want money from toxic players. We want them to stop playing.
> Multiple times the volunteers in the boards here have told the same thing. I personally haven't seen the results but I'm sure Riot wouldn't lie about that. They only claims things, I wonder why they don't show reports or a sample case how it is handle. Any good company will be transparent on that. > Group reports don't matter any more than a single report. False reports don't do anything either and honoring premades affect honor level less than honors from randoms, also honoring doesn't counteract getting reported. Quote from Zanador above "League is too big for it. With a conservative estimate of 81-95 million active players, if every player only plays 1 game each day and only 1 out of every 10 match has a reported player in it, then Riot would still have to review. 81-950000 matches each day. If it only takes a person 5 minutes to review a case, then this would be 67500-7ö166 hours of work each day.". They received a lot of reports daily, from the amount of work, it seems only massive reports are handle. A lot of players have complain to get ban for stupid reasons when they weren't offensive or threatening. > Riot Tantram answering: This isn't framed properly. Banning problem players means more people enjoy their experience. Not banning problem players means players will quit due to poor experiences. Permanent mutes aren't an answer. Players that want to lash out and cannot due it via chat, will do it through other methods. We have a lot of data backing this up. We don't want money from toxic players. We want them to stop playing. Players getting their accounts permanently ban are more prone to troll games and bullies others. Permanent ban accounts for stupid reasons where the person has spent money isn't normal. Only scam and fraud companies do that. Permanent mute someone, the person can't type, no toxicity. You permanent ban an account, the person will be more vengeful. The person can't make another account and troll the game. Why do you think their servers get massive DDOS?
: i still find perma banning for words ridiculous especially when they dont involve words like c@ncer or homophobia. rito is super strict like its kindergarten
Yes, most games' company doesn't ban you for simple words unless it serious threats. Riot Games want people accounts to get ban so that they can spend money on skins again.
: NA UNBAN EXPERIMENT HAS FAILED
They don't give any reports of what has been done and the actual results. That doesn't look transparent to me.
Zanador (EUNE)
: Yes, the system is not 100% accurate. If you see anyone claiming otherwise, just give me a call, and i'll prove them wrong too. But there are two kinds of mistakes a system can make: false positive and false negative. False positive in this case is when someone innocent is punished, and false negative is when the system does not catch someone it should. The system was planned with inaccuracies in mind, Riot was quite open about this. They decided that calibrating the system to make almost every mistake on the false negative side is the better option, since banning innocent people is worse. So yes, there have been innocently banned people, but not as many as others would have you believe. I don't have more time right now, i'll be back to replying to you in the evening, both here and the other thread.
If innocent people get banned, why keep permanently ban accounts? That doesn't make sense to terminate an account of a player who has spent money when the system isn't reliable.
Zanador (EUNE)
: Yes, that would be nice. There is still the problem i detailed in my other post here, namely it is impossible to get enough resources for catching every troll in a game the size of LoL. But even if troll detection was 100% effective, given just how many flamers there are in League, it would take a lot of ruined matches before we finally start to get rid of them. In the meanwhile this suggestion would increase the amount of trolls and feeders for months or a few seasons.
Riot Games should focus their resources on trolls rather people calling "noobs" or "idiots" to flamers. You have stated that the automated system can make mistakes. I'm sure a lot of players have been permanently ban unfairly.
PH45 (EUNE)
: Permamutes have been tested, and the test didn't prove to be successful since the toxic people just found other ways to express their toxic behavior such as inting and griefing. People have chances to reform between punishments. If they don't they are removed from the game.
Where has it been tested and when? Can you show the report? People that int or grief or normal 1 in 1000 players getting ban. These people should ban from ranked and then permanent ban if they continue. > People have chances to reform between punishments. If they don't they are removed from the game. Group of bullies report a single player because the person doesn't perform like they want. They honor each over and don't get punished. Terminating an account doesn't solve that.
Zanador (EUNE)
: All right, let's go through the your plan. 1. Permanent chat ban has been tried. It increases the amount of trolls and feeders, and as i've already said in my other post: i highly doubt that anyone here would want more trolls and feeders in their matches. 2. First of all, don't ban people from ranked only, those of us who mainly play normals do not want them either. And investigating the reports is a nice idea, it has been done before season 1. The problem is simple: League is too big for it. With a conservative estimate of 81-95 million active players, if every player only plays 1 game each day and only 1 out of every 10 match has a reported player in it, then Riot would still have to review. 81-950000 matches each day. If it only takes a person 5 minutes to review a case, then this would be 67500-7ö166 hours of work each day. If you wanted this work to be done, then Riot would need at least 9896 new employees doing nothing else but reviewing matches for 8 hours each day. Riot currently has about 2500 employees. 3. Yes, the bullies should be punishes, no argument there. But a computer reviewing the match can't understand a human's intentions and reactions. If it could, once again, i would be more afraid of Skynet than trolls. And if you want these reports to be investigated and judged by people, then again, we are at the 2nd point, where Riot would need to hire 9896 new people doing nothing else. You also completely sidestep the idea of personal responsibility in this point. For you there are bullies and there are victims. You imply that no matter what the victim replied, he is still innocent, since he was bullied in the first place. Where would you draw the line on that? And why don't you just want people to be responsible for their own actions?
> 1. Permanent chat ban has been tried. It increases the amount of trolls and feeders, and as i've already said in my other post: i highly doubt that anyone here would want more trolls and feeders in their matches. I have never seen that and been playing since season 1. Do you have proofs of that? > 2. First of all, don't ban people from ranked only, those of us who mainly play normals do not want them either. And investigating the reports is a nice idea, it has been done before season 1. The problem is simple: League is too big for it. With a conservative estimate of 81-95 million active players, if every player only plays 1 game each day and only 1 out of every 10 match has a reported player in it, then Riot would still have to review. 81-950000 matches each day. If it only takes a person 5 minutes to review a case, then this would be 67500-7ö166 hours of work each day. If you wanted this work to be done, then Riot would need at least 9896 new employees doing nothing else but reviewing matches for 8 hours each day. Riot currently has about 2500 employees. How do you know about that? What are your sources? If what you are saying is right, it is also possible they don't investigates single player reports against mass reports of a group of players. Hence, group bullying is still present. The IFS system is clearly bad. Why not make a system to take only report of racism, death threat, mother insults and illness threat in consideration? Verifying tickets where some people call others with simple words like "Noobs" or "Idiot" are a waste of time. Focus on the real toxic people. Most games' companies do that. > Yes, the bullies should be punishes, no argument there. But a computer reviewing the match can't understand a human's intentions and reactions. If it could, once again, i would be more afraid of Skynet than trolls. And if you want these reports to be investigated and judged by people, then again, we are at the 2nd point, where Riot would need to hire 9896 new people doing nothing else. You are admitting the computer can review perfectly the bans. How do you know their system? Unfair punishment are reported via tickets, this should be investigated. Customer support only reply is "You have been permanently ban by the system, we can't do anything" and flame you that you are toxic. That doesn't seem a fair approached to me. > Yes, the bullies should be punishes, no argument there. But a computer reviewing the match can't understand a human's intentions and reactions. If it could, once again, i would be more afraid of Skynet than trolls. And if you want these reports to be investigated and judged by people, then again, we are at the 2nd point, where Riot would need to hire 9896 new people doing nothing else. You also completely sidestep the idea of personal responsibility in this point. For you there are bullies and there are victims. You imply that no matter what the victim replied, he is still innocent, since he was bullied in the first place. Where would you draw the line on that? And why don't you just want people to be responsible for their own actions? As the TOS said if someone is offensive and threatening, like racism or death threats, those are worth permanent ban. Banning a person account for saying "noob" or "idiot" isn't a hard insult or threatening at all. Terminating an account over simple words like that, look like stealing the person money. For 8 years, permanent bans of accounts hasn't changed anything. When the solution should prevent toxic people from typing.
Mcgalakar (EUNE)
: >Riot Games has to refund all the money spent recently and have to put a notice before any close down. They need, but it wary from situation to situation. For sure this happens when you have an active time based subscription. So for example, if you payed for a month to play a game (many games still are based on subscription) and you have rights to use that time for what you paid. But in League of Legends you buy an access to a good for the time that service is available for you. You buy an access to the skin for a time that Riot provides this service. As long as you received the service, there is nothing against the law with them not refunding it to you. Obviously the situation is never black or white, and there are situations when in the case of terminating the service one can demand the refund. Mostly in the case, when between acquiring the service and shutting it down not enough time has passed for one to use it. So if you buy a skin and servers close down in, lets say, a hour or maybe a day or a week later, you can demand refund based on not providing the service in the time that company advertised that they would. But still they can shut down the server even a second after you buy something and everything will be legal as they can terminate the service when they decide on that. Also, if you would read what I wrote, I never put any suggestions about refunding money in the case of servers shut down. You just lacked arguments so you jumped with a new one. Whats more, rules above do not comply, if it was you who broke the agreements. In this case different set of regulations come into the hand, as the one who broke the agreement was not a provider, but the one to which service was provided. >Just chatting or ask to report bullies that are flaming you, isn't aggressive. Constituent asking for reports is a form of harassment. You are becoming a bully this way. >Someone insult you and flame, you call him idiot and explain him where that person is wrong in RL. Calling someone an idiot is flaming him. There is no difference between two flamers and both of them should receive the penalty according to scale of their behaviour and past punishments. The fact that you consider calling someone an idiot not a flaming, does not change the fact, that in fact it is. >If players don't want to hear what the person arguing are saying, they can mute them So why did you not use your own advice then? If you don't want to listen to people negative behaviour towards you, you can mute them. Sometime it is worth listening to your own advises. >If you support that, it is your choice, don't trash players that are showing articles about them. Well, here we have at least a proof. A proof that you do not read what others write, but just looks for people to pat your back and tells you that you are right calling Riot an evil organization. If you would spend 5 second on reading that part you would see that I stated that I do not support sexual harassment in any form. Try reading what I wrote once more. Even more you did not provide any proof that people behind IFS broke law in any way. Still you claim that they can't judge you because they were behind sexual harassment. It shows only one thing, you can't accept the fact that you broke the rules (by harassing others with report calls, to which you admitted in your message above) and trying to find some arguments that have nothing to do with your case just to feel better. Behaviour of Riot employers have NOTHING to do with the rules that people who accepted the Terms of Use need to obey. If you didn't like them, why did you accepted them? If you accepted them, then you did agree to follow them. Case of Riot employers breaking law (obviously first court need to find them guilty) is something completely different and is a company thing, not a thing about game itself.
> But in League of Legends you buy an access to a good for the time that service is available for you. You buy an access to the skin for a time that Riot provides this service. As long as you received the service, there is nothing against the law with them not refunding it to you. Terminating an account with a log like mine is consider a fraud. Most gaming company terminate an account over hacking or misuse. > Constituent asking for reports is a form of harassment. You are becoming a bully this way. Fail logic here. You get harassed and thrashed by a group of bullies in RL, you won't asked for help at all? Does the victim consider a bully for asking to arrest the bullies? I have asked for report only 2 times for people to help me. > Calling someone an idiot is flaming him. There is no difference between two flamers and both of them should receive the penalty according to scale of their behaviour and past punishments. The fact that you consider calling someone an idiot not a flaming, does not change the fact, that in fact it is. Calling a flamer and a harasser an idiot, is flaming, really lol? You have called me toxic and trash my real life person saying I was a young adult in argument. That look more flaming and toxic to me. You trash a person appearance over an argument, this look more to breach the TOS. > So why did you not use your own advice then? If you don't want to listen to people negative behaviour towards you, you can mute them. Sometime it is worth listening to your own advises. When someone doesn't know how to play and start insults you. It is better to educate the person. Why does Riot Games ban people over non-offensive chat? Why does a flamer like you don't any bans? > Well, here we have at least a proof. A proof that you do not read what others write, but just looks for people to pat your back and tells you that you are right calling Riot an evil organization. If you would spend 5 second on reading that part you would see that I stated that I do not support sexual harassment in any form. Try reading what I wrote once more. You insulted me and call me toxic and trash me about being a young adult which is irrelevant lol. Try use your brain more, it would some common-sense. Quotes from you " You look like a salty young adult who thinks that he is somehow special and others need to bend to his will.". I wonder how is that relevant to this post and that isn't flaming for you? You always call the guy showing his unfair ban "whiny". You are obviously flaming people for no reasons since you can't produce facts. > Even more you did not provide any proof that people behind IFS broke law in any way. Still you claim that they can't judge you because they were behind sexual harassment. It shows only one thing, you can't accept the fact that you broke the rules (by harassing others with report calls, to which you admitted in your message above) and trying to find some arguments that have nothing to do with your case just to feel better. There is my chat log here and links to multiple cases where someone got ban for no reason because multiple people reported him and tyler1 still insulting hard isn't permanently ban. All facts were shown to you. How does it show that I can accept the fact I broke the rules? Where did I broke the rules? You are accusing me of things with no proofs. Riot Games bullies their employees. In what world or common sense, can bullies judge cases of bullying and do the right punishment? > Case of Riot employers breaking law (obviously first court need to find them guilty) is something completely different and is a company thing, not a thing about game itself. Riot Games admitted what their COO has been doing. Your bigotry amazed me, might be good to read the articles before saying your righteous words. Multiple women sued them for sexual harassment and sexism. Go search on the internet, there are dozens of articles about it or you own thinking is the only good one?
Lleajy (EUW)
: That's what I've been talking about for a long time. Perma ban is too much if it's just verbal abuse. Lock the chat, done.
For 8 years, a lot of players have suggested that. I wonder why Riot Games don't do that if they are a good as they say they are.
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Rynor

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