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Shamose (EUW)
: Does paying a developer more make him a better developer? Of course not. The people that work on the client are, to put it bluntly, incompetent.
I wouldn't say the programmers are necessarily, just there are some stupid decisions made leaders of the respective teams. For example, one QoL that the players had asked for for years was a buffering icon in the loading screen to tell whether it had frozen. It took years to implement it and when they actually listened, how long did it take? A programmer (or a few, I can't remember exactly) a couple of days to create and implement it. It feels more like wilful negligence than incompetence. I wouldn't be surprised if it is meant to be more of a long-con where when players start leaving they suddenly go "but look! We have made these improvements that you asked for!". The base of it is, this is a client. A client is meant to be lightweight, which to give credit it is when it is actually loaded. However when loading it up and reloading it (getting out of games) it uses way more resources than is needed, likely due to riot scanning the other processes on your computer.
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Inaphyt (EUW)
: eh i'm very much a fan of adding more to the game than removing.
Oh I agree, I personally hate when Riot remove stuff. I just thought that it was interesting to think about how much the meta would change if certain things were removed and this certainly took the cake
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graabbuu (EUW)
: Then i dont get what your problem is? I think its a fact and it is not bad that getting one team member caught late game has to be meaningful. In early game its so big too, just that you dont see it in the map as a couple of towers but you get that extra damage to solo kill laner or dominate them to keep getting a lead on cs/xp and extend that lead to other lanes but its still a huge impact in the game. Since there are all towers tho and map isnt open, you cant end game else you would. But as you make it seem, min 30 mark getting one member caught shouldnt be for any reason t1 to nexus without baron, not even inhib...You wave clear them and if they keep tanking towers that i dont think so, you can engage 4v5 on them. But if you team has wave clear smart thing to do would be push other towers or baron. Thus, get back to the game, a lil closer than before or even comeback with baron push after. I mean i just started playing one year ago and for me it has been always the same (last comment, was referring to every season tho). But how you expect the game to be? perma vision so ppl dont get caught and u can tf 5v5? i dont get it What do you thing the reason for this is? What kind of solution would you implement to change this?? Tell me cuz else i dont understand. And ofc i have lost / won games because ppl got caught and it can be frustring and at the same time kinda satisfaying to finally end that game. **uuh too much text**
Every game just feels the same now. I remember when there were different tactics widely used but now it feels monotonous. Or maybe I'm just growing tired of the game. That's a possibility
Forll (EUW)
: ***
I guess I phrased it badly, I'll try and rephrase it. It's not that you shouldn't lose something if a teammate gets caught, but it no longer feels as if there's a way to put up any resistance against it. Or maybe as I've gotten better (I hope) I've just learned that it's unrealistic to contest an objective. I remember the assassin meta, the solo carry. I hated that meta and it feels like we've done a full turn from solo carry to solo loss. Then again based on perspective you could say that in order for a solo carry you need someone to solo lose. What I mean by the meta of "Don't mess up" I mean that it now feels so punishing. I remember when you could maybe lose two towers from losing a teamfight at 30 minutes. Now you can lose the game from a single catch at 30 minutes
graabbuu (EUW)
: BS, always been the same, you better not get caught late game or you gonna get demolished. When you are young pneumonia wont kill you but when you get old things are more impactful, lethal...even that you might die from it....things affectt different depending on the moment they happen, plus things change themselfs
Oh I don't disagree with you on the fact that if you get caught you lose a lot in the late game. What I mainly disagree with is that if one person dies with just how much you can lose. I've seen games 30 minutes in where one person gets caught and as a result the enemy team goes from a T1 to the Nexus. There is where I have the problem. It has been leaning towards that for a while but at some point last season it became an inevitability that that is how you will lose your game, not a decent team fight
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BinHex (EUNE)
: Yasuo need big nerf, this is not solution...
He doesn't need a big nerf, it's just that the way he itemises is too optimal. With PD, you get 60% crit (so about a 44% damage increase) without taking into account the attack speed, all for a very cheap item. It's his double crit chance that allows this kind of huge spike. Therefore if you nerf the spike in some way (by delaying it) then it should fix it. Yasuo is like Katarina in some ways. If you feed her, she will wreck you. However, she doesn't get a huge power spike so early because of cheap items. This will weaken his early game in a way that it makes it more difficult to transition into late. It would weaken his laning, making him weaker to ganks, so him becoming a late-game threat whilst everyone is still transitioning will no happen nearly as often
: if you would do that i think many yaosu player would just completly tilt and gona start splitpushing till they have a high level to get the 100% fast
But if they're left splitpushing, that means you can get an advantage in teamfights. It weakens his early game in more than one way as he has to choose what to do before he gets his strength, rather than farm for first item then roam
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AGENDA (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Askew,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=0ht0E1vW,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2017-04-12T12:50:24.683+0000) > > With the way that Riot created draft pick, I consider a "troll" pick to be when someone picks a champion that cannot fill the role that Riot decided. > > As the other lanes just say where they are, the only two that apply to this rule are marksman and support. > > However, it is important to note that people CAN play whatever they want. It's just that I consider that in a ranked environment when people try to hold a game hostage by using a pick. > > Using my example above, Zed support, no prior discussion. He just picked it and said nothing. I consider that troll. Now if he had discussed with the team what he wanted to play that and 2/4 of the other players agreed then I would be totally fine with it because there is a majority vote. It is a team game after all. The main point of this is that if someone chooses something that has almost **NO** capability for the role that they have (such as **SUPPORTING**) that they, in effect, need to get a majority vote. With that kind of system in place, it can stop people from choosing something and saying nothing, so people have no idea whether they want to troll or play seriously Yeah but riot cannot force everyone to pick with the meta everybody cannot own all champions especially support champions so riot cannot force peoples to pick right champions , everyone can pick whatever they wants to
The main point here is that I'm curious as to the direction Riot are taking with draft pick and defining roles. Now the game is pretty much locked to the 1-1-1-2 format, they've defined Marksman and Support in the botlane, I'm just curious as to the communities views on what those roles entail
Strigina (EUNE)
: >A good slow and kill pressure with 6, without necessarily having to have items. That sounds to me almost like that Zed support actually. I even saw kinda good LB supports (who only has snare and only if the target won't walk too far to break the chains) and if the person is going to at least buy a sightstone, it might work. Also, I am pretty sure that if someone would pick MF support before LCS players showed us it's a viable pick, he would be called troll as well, most likely flamed too. And poof...it's working support with adc who has some kind of engage. That's why I am against any punishment for those "troll picks" if they aren't actually trolling. Full AP Zed support who didn't even come to the botlane is a troll. Singed support leaving an adc to farm their own jungle might be a troll, Zed support properly warding and built is not a troll for me.
The main difference I would say with it is that MF has a lot of AOE and required less items to do damage. But I do understand what you mean. I just wanted to know people's opinions on the subject. And I agree with you, had it not been for LCS it would still be considered "troll". I partly made this post out of frustration when I spent 10 minutes queuing for a game for someone to dodge at the last minute
Tarolock (EUW)
: my problem with this is that there are ppl who will dodge if they see an unusual pick, so the autofilled trolls can force ppl to dodge and getting away without punishment, but getting the votekick in champ select would only hurt ppl who could carry games with unusual picks but ppl would kick them too imo the only way this could be fixed is not dodging, playing the whole game and that would waste the trolls time and if you dont start a flamewar with him hell get bored and prolly wont do it again, but since i have no experience in trolling i dont know if it would work, the only thing i know is that most of the trolls are trolling because they need the attention that comes with it
I do agree with you on that one, I think the best way to stop it is to play it out. That's part of the reason I play the games out. Sadly a lot of people do not want to do that so this kind of problem persists.
Strigina (EUNE)
: Well, people are playing MF support even in LCS. What is that supporting capability she provides?
A good slow and kill pressure with 6, without necessarily having to have items. This is part of what I wanted to get discussion on. Obviously there are lots of different types of supports. You have healing supports, tank supports, damage supports, lane pressure supports etc... But when you pick something that does not have supporting capability (e.g. it is a kill lane support) then that is a very specific type of supporting which can be supported by only a few adc's. In LCS, they have total communication with their team, so obviously they can execute this kind of composition well. But if you have a support that picks a kill lane support (such as Zed, like I said above) without communicating at all with the team, are you saying that you lose a small amount of faith. I have been proved wrong on what I thought could be a troll pick on many occasions, but the main things is that whenever that happened, the player **talked** to the team and told them what they were going to do. Like I said, I don't care what someone plays, as long as they play it well. But I understand why people might feel the need to dodge, because they have such little faith in the pick and don't want to waste 30+ mins to lose a game. But if the player does well, who's to say that it's a "troll" pick? Here is where the difficulty of it lies.
Praes (EUNE)
: So you want to punish me for playing the champion of my choice? I play Ashe support, don't troll with it and it works pretty well. You'd probably want to punish me for playing an adc as a support. What you are saying is taking my right to play my champion of choice in the role. Any champion can be played as a support if you play it as one, it's about the play style not the champion.
This is why I wanted to make the post, to get some discussion on the subject. I know I probably didn't convey my own thoughts on the matter that well but I largely don't care what someone plays, where they play it. The whole point is to try and talk about some sort of system in place to stop people holding a game hostage because they are not happy with something. Obviously you can report people in the end-game lobby. But if someone dodges because of what the pick is, then I'm not too sure on the subject. Because on the one hand, like you said, there are some unorthodox supports. With Ashe she has a perma-slow and a huge stun, with kill potential. So many people would consider that a good support. There are some picks that are not so great at it. With my Zed example, he has a slow and a small amount of kill pressure until he gets items. Which can be difficult for him if he's playing support. But I do agree with you, it's the play style, no the support. But with Riot defining the role as support, I would have thought they would want a certain type of champion in the role. This can be seen with the jungle over the past few seasons where they have made it harder for a lot of, back then, niche junglers, limiting the pool of who can actually jungle. I just wanted to get community feedback on the subject. I would have added a poll on the end but I kept on getting an error whenever I tried.
AGENDA (EUNE)
: State me what is troll pick?
With the way that Riot created draft pick, I consider a "troll" pick to be when someone picks a champion that cannot fill the role that Riot decided. As the other lanes just say where they are, the only two that apply to this rule are marksman and support. However, it is important to note that people CAN play whatever they want. It's just that I consider that in a ranked environment when people try to hold a game hostage by using a pick. Using my example above, Zed support, no prior discussion. He just picked it and said nothing. I consider that troll. Now if he had discussed with the team what he wanted to play that and 2/4 of the other players agreed then I would be totally fine with it because there is a majority vote. It is a team game after all. The main point of this is that if someone chooses something that has almost **NO** capability for the role that they have (such as **SUPPORTING**) that they, in effect, need to get a majority vote. With that kind of system in place, it can stop people from choosing something and saying nothing, so people have no idea whether they want to troll or play seriously
Tarolock (EUW)
: this is the reason i dont want to see reports in champ select... you see a pick YOU dont like and its automatically a troll pick... why cant the guy play zed support if he wants? he did not take your champion and did not forced you to change your pick, so why do YOU want to do that to him? if he picks zed support and goes feeding thats an entirely different story, if that happens you can report after the game, but reporting someone before he does something is just stupid... you cant go around in real life and call the police on everyone who have a gun because "they could rob a bank with it"...
I wasn't suggesting a report IN the lobby. The only reason I have brought this up is because Riot clearly defined roles for the player to go in, with this one being labelled SUPPORT. At that extent, I believe that Riot wants this role to be able to offer some capability to support the marksman they are laning with. If the person discusses what they want to play and the majority of the lobby agrees, then by all means, I no longer consider it "troll". However, when someone chooses something which cannot do what the role entails (in this case it was SUPPORTING) without discussing with the team whether it's okay then I believe it should be punishable, to some extent. I understand the feeling of wanting to play unorthodox stuff but the reason I chose the support analogy is because: 1) It happened to me 2) It seems to happen more often with people getting autofilled to support When someone is choosing a "troll" pick with no intent of filling what the role entails, just to try and get someone in the lobby to dodge because they don't want the role, that's when I believe the player should be punished.
: > [{quoted}](name=Askew,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=0ht0E1vW,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-04-11T23:47:27.328+0000) > > Now with things like Fizz top or other stuff that people haven't played too often I'm fine with. Because where else are they meant to learn? > > However, when someone picks something "troll" or with the intention to sabotage the lobby/game, that's when I think things should be punishable for the pick. You are? I am not, especially when it happens in dia 3 and upwards as well. It's the same as trolling in those tiers, idk if it even matters in Gold. I mean, it took me 3 days to sweep out of Gold by playing Taric only, on my smurf.
When comparing elo, then I guess it's entirely different. As gold I sort of know champions but not massively well. In diamond I guess it would be a different feeling. But I still understand the sentiment of wanting people to at least practice in normals what they are going to play. It's just that with my elo that doesn't put you at too huge of a disadvantage
: Useless buildings
The problem with this is that, yes, the tower is meant to protect you to some extent. But it's primary reason is to pace the game and control minion waves. With this in mind, it's difficult to make it so that champions are able to last hit under the turret and also deal a lot of damage to people that dive.
: Seems to be a recurring problem in ranked. Enemy team uses meta picks like Darius, Lee Sin, Lucian, and pull them well. Meanwhile, you're stuck with teams who use Fizz top, Kindred jungle, Vayne, and feed because 1) neither do they regularly play these champions 2) nor do they know how to lane against the stronger meta champs. So yeah, if you pick Urgot top and feed 0/12, I will report you for intentional trolling and feeding.
Now with things like Fizz top or other stuff that people haven't played too often I'm fine with. Because where else are they meant to learn? However, when someone picks something "troll" or with the intention to sabotage the lobby/game, that's when I think things should be punishable for the pick.
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