Kamdoro (EUW)
: If they are dragging it out then surrender?
drunk french trio laughing their baguettes off chatting with the enemy team, refusing to surrender
Talleus (EUW)
: Some people are just as good as.
Skill cannot cut animation times completely. Only a select few champions can do animation canceling, and i dont remember Lux being among them.
Jeanlema (EUW)
: You never ever distinguished competetive viability between certain elos.I'll quote you:There's a difference between "off meta" and "competitively unviable".I also don't know exactly in which region the player is but there is master that has 3 accounts (one of them currently master the other 2 diamond (hikashikun))who mains Teemo jungle with whom he has a winrate above 56%.Would you consider this "competitively unviable"?Propably but he doesn't play in lower elo. If you are talking about "competitively unviable" you also have to include what the pros do because they propably have the greatest knowledge of the game.Yorick?Guss what:He was key for Unicorns of Love in beating Fnatic.Urgot?Depens on what patch you are playing.I think 2015 he was one of the strongest ADCs.He is also considered a hard counter to Zed.Varus ADC (if I rember correctly) got played this year in an asian reagion and wasn't an utterly garbage pick.Also how do you define him as ADC?He defenetly got played bot in some regions.I am confused on why you don't mention Nunu because he is one of the most champions used when people talk about unviable champions. Nothing is "competitively unviable".People mostly just don't try out something.Ekko got buffed (only cooldown buffs) and all of a sudden everyone jumps on the tank ekko train.Then he got nerfed to a worse state than pre-buff and people still played him a a tank top and now people still play him as a duelist even though he got more nerfs.Without trying something people can't know if somthing is good or not. Furtheremore some people may not enjoy the playstyle of a champion.Trashuo gets picked a lot in lower elo even though people don't know how to play him but they still enjoy playing him while such an (compared) easy like Urgot doesn't get played because people don't enjoy playing him. Also a lot of champions are actually pretty good but they need a certain comp to work.Right now the META is also based a lot around pushing meaning that certain champions don't work that well as they are a higher risk but they aren't "competitively unviable". Well,I remember one champion when it comes to high risk.Leona.How did she got played in the first place in OGN?It's because she is a viable pick but she comes with a high risk. However,the main reason why I don't like to hear such thing as "something isn't competetively viable" is because you are basically restriction the champion pool to only a few picks.Currently there are 26 picks that are in the Strong/God-Tier so why should you anything else as they are the most viable champions (yes,I am ignoring matchups and other things).Why should you play some like Vladimir mid?He is currently one of the champiosn with the lowest winrates? No,it's not like "high elo player can make anything work against low elo players".This is not what I was talking about.I was talking about YOU as a whatever elo you are can make anything work against people of your elo because they aren't consistent.For instance I remember a game were I was behind as Malphite against Irelia (she killed me 2 times and had 20 CS more).I killed the Jungler who wanted to gank me and then went straight for killing her because I knew that she'll do mistakes.Same goes for Zac.I also won many matchups as Zac (as tank and AP) against Gangplank,Cassiopeia,Ryze,Zed,Yasuo,etc.I also played Illaoi supp and crushed different matchups I shouldn't be able tocrush like against a Zyra.In lower elo you can make anything work as long as you don't play like an a madman and go ham 24/7.If you kno when you can trade and when you can potentialy engage in a 1v1 or what to do with your lane.People in lower elo don't realy know such things or they don't account for it.
To quote myself: That pro players can pull it off doesnt mean the majority of players can. They're the best of the best: They can do a lot of stuff that most players will never be able to mimick. To quote myself again: That something works in certain cenarios doesnt mean it allways will. To combine the quotes: That ONE PLAYER can pull off Teemo jungle reliably does not mean its competitively viable. It means he's found a way, through his own skill and practice, to overcome the drawbacks that makes the pick unviable to begin with. We're still talking ONE player out of a million. And why are you mentioning Teemo jungle? I've seen that pulled off, myself, to varying degrees of success (mainly against melee-biased team comps), especially with the legendary/ultimate Teemo skin having unique dialogue for jungling. But what we're discussing here is Teemo support. Dont swerve from the topic. Arguing that ONE champion doesnt work as support is certainly not restricting the champion pool. I've been explaining why TEEMO is not a viable SUPPORT pick, that means i've argued ONE of 132 (ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY TWO CHAMPIONS) SHOULD not be played in that role, for the sake of his teammates. He CAN - and im sure he WILL be further into the future - but it WILL cause a lot more losses than victories, losses that will be caused by one player upon four other players that tried their extreme best to make up for what that one was lacking. Play it all you want in normal games, just dont bring it into ranked unless you're with a premade that has agreed to it. The problem is in its essence not the champion itself - its the risk and pressure you put on the other people that did NOT CHOOSE to be matched with you. IF you lose a game as Teemo support, it may very well have been BECAUSE you picked Teemo support. (Of course a lot of times there will be other reasons, but that will be one MORE reason, and that's not reallyh necessary is it?) Off-topic: So he's (that master player) why there was a wave of people playing Teemo jungle a while ago. I remember people banning Teemo just so that nobody'd pick him in the jungle and feed their hats off.
TTekkers (EUW)
: Firstly, running around like a special snowflake is an exceptionally effective method of dodging a LOT of skillshots, especially at close range as they can't predict your movements. Also, I think you're reading too much into it :P
I would be if it happened just once or twice, but when it happens without pause ( {{champion:80}} ) throughout the match its a whole other matter.
TTekkers (EUW)
: I reactively dodge skillshots (and do other stuff) just by right clicking. Does that make me a scripter?
So do i. Flawlessly dodging EVERY SINGLE SKILLSHOT, even those thrown while the caster is literally ON TOP of you does, however. Oh you spastically dodged that Rengar/Rumble E / Morgana Q thrown INSIDE YOU while their model was visually hidden behind your tibbers? Tell me more about how you could see the quarter second cast animation through not only your own model, but Tibber's massive bulk as well. I naturally dodge skillshots myself. I've been able to do so decently for about one and a half year now, anticipating the skillshots of nearly every champion in the game. (Including rapid fire Ezreal). The thing is, when someone is flawlessly spamming their abilities the instant they come off cooldown, either pointed at the dead center of your hitbox or in front of the direction you're traveling, WHILE dodging your skillshots AND those of up to four allies, something is wrong. Especially when said pro player is moving extremely spastically, being guided by the skillshots CLOSER to your team until they try to flash away then proceed to move closer to you again because of the skillshot dodging (i had a match with an ezreal and a xerath flanking this annie on both sides of the mid lane, she flawlessly dodged all their spells but was in turn guided into my tower, flashing out then instantly re-entering it so as to not get hit by Ezreal) Its very simple. A human would NOT prioritize avoiding low damage skillshots over avoiding tower hits that can drop you in three to four strikes.
Kippiiq (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=The Yukeh,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=EGoV03ZF,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-09-23T12:54:31.321+0000) > > spend 20 to 40 minutes 13 to 30*
Your games end after just 30 minutes? Lucky. Mine doesnt because the winning team likes to drag it out to get more kills.
raps1355 (EUW)
: Ok look the chinese are not going to come off there server to come to euw with high ping, its some other people i think its prob the arabs, they use numbers combined with letters prob to produce certain sounds while typing.
I doubt arabs would speak sentences that resemble f.ex "wa xui ho lung" (example, not actual referrence because my memory isnt that good)
DecIan (EUW)
: I've only ever seen 1 obvious scripter, I've been called a scripter whilst playing Lux tonnes of times however.
Do your spells have cast times and animations while playing her? As in, does she spend like a quarter of a second when casting her shield where she'll stop moving to cast it? Does she turn around if you cast her Q behind her? If yes, you're not a scripter. If no, you're the guy i just played against. No cast times, no cast animations. ALL the spells would fly out of her at the exact same time (all 3 of them) and they had no animation, meaning they'd just pop right ouf of her body with no visual warning beforehand.
: Riot Rambo! :p
Yeah, stealing other people's jokes isnt funny. Flagged for plagiarism.
archerno1 (EUNE)
: As if someone would risk their account on troll mode like ARURF...
: Implying you see a lot of scripters. You'd be surprised how many people script. and no not just during URF
But i do. I've been playing since the end of Season 1, i've seen my share of scripts and hacks come and go. (Remember the mastery exploit of Season 2?) I do not see -A LOT- of scripters. But i do see them much more often than i'd like. Usually three per week, as they usually travel in packs. ARURF has just pulled them all into one que, apparently. Just tonight i've spotted eight players i suspected of scripting, where i'm sure six of them were. (The final two were a bit obscure as i got matched WITH the scripters i played against the match before, and thus i ended up seeing one of the wildest scripter duels i've ever witnessed. Still, the two last ones were utterly stomped in the end, which is what makes it hard to tell if they were simply ridiculously good (which is unlikely, as i am not) or they were in fact scripting.
: Someone seems salty that people have faster connections and reflexes than him. Yknow it says alot about you that you call them chinese.
I'm not calling them chinese as an insult. I'm simply pointing out half of them has CN in their name, and the other half is constantly chatting away - in chinese. I'll clarify in the main post.
Rioter Comments
: So one of the three games is mor representitve than the others as it was 2v2. In case of the Lee game.Well,he propably went warding enchantment becasue else he'd need a Sighstone or else he may not be able to use his W properly and Teem propably didn't went Sightstone because his mushrooms make up for somewhat decent wards. And yes,third game Teemo basically was a garbage pick. When it comes to Teemo support I don't think Nashors Tooth is a great pick especially not as first offensive item.I'd go Rylais. Well no,I don't think that Brand and Zyra are considered good support picks because of their CC.They don't realy have relyable CC.They are good supports because of their high damage without items or else there are other champions that could be played supp with more reliable cc like Renekton or Maokai.A renekton is better at landing a game changing stun as he doesn't has to hit a skillshot or how about Twisted Fate? Well,Braum won't be always around every champion close to Teemo and 5v5 won't happen all the time.Also,the only time I played Teemo in a normal I wasn't just 24/7 bot lane.As I reached level 6 I place mushrooms as wards for my ADC and then went roaming and especially annoying the jungler (and no this was not related to lower elo.This worked because of mid/top pressure while bot was to far away from roaming and their jungler wasn't a mobilety god) Well,now I got to hear what I wanted to hear.Teemo may not be the best support but he isn't "competitively unviable" because there is no such thing as "competitively unviable".I can say it again:Ask Maxim he will tell you that you can play whatever you want to in lower ranks.Even many pros say this.As long as you understand the game properly there won't be a to big difference between a normal ADC and Thresh ADC. PS:I never played Teemo ranked and I porpably never will.I don't even main support.However if I have to play support I'll be going to play Zac and no "competitively unviable" can stop me from doing so.
This is the FINAL TIME i will repeat myself. YES. Teemo support works just fine in LOWER RANKS. I never, ever said otherwise. I said he is competitively unviable in HIGHER ranks. Silver is LOWER RANKS. Gold is LOWER RANKS. Diamond is HIGHER RANKS. "There is no such thing as competitively unviable" *cough* old yorick *cough* urgot *cough* varus adc *cough* "Ask Maxim" Why would i have to ask a pro player? Pro players are the best of the best, at the extreme top of the ladder - if you know the game well enough you can make just about anything work - against players of significantly less game knowledge and skill than you. That it works against low level players doesnt make it viable.
Rioter Comments
: Can we get urf already...
You dense? You're GETTING Urf, stop complaining. It usually pops up around the middle of the day, that means approx 4 hours later than when you posted this post.
: Again:Someone using the "Oh I have such great game knowledge because I am higher elo"-card.Juts ask anyone who is actually high elo.Most of them will tell you:In low elo you can play whatever you want to (as long as it is not something that doesn't has any AP scaling build with full AP).Just ask Maxim the german lol caster (who also is actual high elo).He will tell you:If you want to play AD Heimerdinger top,then play it. Besides I know how plat works and it's not an entirely different world and well,if you look me up then maybe look at how many rankeds I played in the last time.My last ranked I played 8 days ago and only 3 in the last month so currently I am not trying to get out of silver. Also you are talking about three games.THREE games.This is not much.Not representable.If the matchup of both you 2 is equal there is still a 12,5% chance of you winning all 3 games against them.There'd also be a 12,5% chance of Teemo winning all 3 matchups.Was it even a fair 2v2 in bot lane all the time?If not so,well then it's even less representetive.Besides,how do I know how they played? "past the 20 minute mark i'm not sure if i could kill Teemo on my own - but he couldnt kill me either." First off how do you know if Teemo couldn't have killed you.Second of all you sayed that Braum could 1v1 Teemo throughout the initial 30-40 minutes.Here you are just assuming something.That doesn't hold up for a great argument. If I can't harass the ADC well,then obviously I will harass the support.It's not like nothing will happen if I attack a Braum as Teemo.And well,a level 3 all in isn't realy possible if Teemo harassed one of you all the time.He also doesn't just has one ability making him able to trade.He also has auto-attacks that deal some damage that is somewhat more as it is magic damage.And again:A Q landing on Teemo won't necesssarily result in him either flashing or in a kill.It depends on the situation.If you get pushed in and the enemies have a large,well,you may lose the trade rather than actually getting something from a full ham engage.Also there are enough of supports that don't realy build support.What about Brand?His main build has (as only main support item) Frost Queen's Claim and Sightstone or Eye of the Watchers.Or how about Annie or Zyra? ADCs punishing Teemo for harassing.Well,I only played Teemo support once but how do they want to punish me if they are unable to deal damage because they are blinded.It's not like I'll trade for a long period of time and even if I trade longer it's not like there is nothing else happening in the lane.There are still minions and other champions. And well again:Juts ask anyone who is actually high elo.Most of them will tell you:In low elo you can play whatever you want to. Well,so firts off even if your ADC pays attention he may be out of range to actually help you.Second of all,if you trigger Braums passive instantly (let's say in 2 seconds),he is stunned for 1.25 seconds how are you gonna follow up with another Q (if it's at level 3,even with 40% cooldown reduction it is basically impossible for you to follow up with a SAFE 100% hit Q).Only at level 13 it would be possible for you (if triggered in 2 seconds) to follow up with a safe hitting Q. Yes Teemo will put pressure on you before level 3 making it difficult for you to engage on him/his ADC at level 3. Sure,I know how to play Braum.I played him a lot as he used to b my main support.Yes,you can jump to a freindly minion but it's not like your ADC need to follow you while there may still be minions in the way.If you jump to a melee minion that is fighting against another melee minion,well there are propably still ranged minions in the way.Also if there are ranged minions fighting against each other,well,it's somewhat predictable what will happen if Teemo steps in between both lines I mean if plat players are that much better either Teemo will bait you or he won't be in between the minions in the first place.
First: No, of course the bot lanes werent straight down 2v2 all the time. The first match saw no jungler presence whatsoever as our team had an Udyr and the enemy team had a Master Yi, both who spent approx 25 minutes farming without ever revealing themselves to the enemy team. (lol) The second match the Teemo was premade with a Lee sin who went with the warding enchantment on his jungle item to make up for Teemo's lack of sightstone. He camped bot lane heavily in the first eight minutes (entering the lane but failing to grab a kill five times in a row) before being caught by our Nocturne who was three levels ahead, killing Lee and forcing him to farm his jungle to recover. The third match we actually lost bot lane - but it was no thanks to Teemo. The enemy Hecarim did a terrifying early gank running in from BEHIND our tower, which ensured we had no vision on him beforehand. We ended up winning all three games either way though, as Teemo simply wasnt able to perform decently past laning phase due to most of our teammates blowing him up before he could do much. (Hint: a mid lane Leblanc/Ahri/Lissandra, even when behind, can still delete a support without any defensive tools pretty quickly. The same goes for the top lane Darius/Hecarim/Gnar.) I said neither Braum nor Teemo would be able to kill each other past the 20 minute mark because Braum does not have any decent damage tools by then (unless he's run for iceborn, which is rarely a good idea against an AP-heavy bot lane) - but even if Teemo goes full AP with nashor's tooth, that is likely the only offensive item he has been able to afford thus far. He has no way to prevent Braum from simply running away, and he doesnt do anywhere near enough damage to kill Braum who will most likely have finished {{item:3401}} {{item:2049}} and {{item:3105}}. I've stated this before, but the reason Brand, Annie and Zyra are considered viable supports are because they have much more reliable crowd control and zoning abilities than Teemo, regardless of their position in the game. A 0/8 Brand can still land a game-changing stun on that fed Vayne, a 0/8 Zyra can still knock up the enemy team allowing your Gnar to ult them into a wall, a 0/8 Annie can still flash-ult the enemy mid laner or adc allowing your team to remove them from the game - whereas If Teemo falls behind he wont be able to do anything at all, besides placing a mushroom somewhere every 20 seconds or so - in the field he'll be deleted faster than a Sona trying to duel a Veigar. If he runs full damage, he may quickly and easily be caught out and bursted down by mobile assassins from the mid lane or the jungle, while if he runs with a tank build he wont be doing enough damage to be any real presence until very late in the game. Sure, his auto attacks are buffed by his passives - but if he maxes his auto attacks his blind will lose effectiveness, and if he maxes his blind Braum's aegis (and eventual locket) will negate a lot of the damage because Teemo will not yet be able to get any significant attack speed. - - - Now to ONCE AGAIN EMPHASIZE MY POINT : I am not saying support Teemo CANNOT work. ESPECIALLY Not in lower ranks - his bullying potential can be oppressive on bot lanes without any synergy or cooperation. I'm saying any decent bot lane duo will nullify Teemo, costing his team an otherwise extremely valuable team member. Its not that he CANT work - its that his CHANCES of working are EXTREMELY low compared to other supports. Its like running support Rengar - either you succeed in getting fed and you'll be affecting the entire map with your kill potential, or you get shat on early in the game and you'll be nothing more than a burden, trying to do damage but constantly dying instead. It CAN work. It DOES work from time to time. But its a LOT higher risk than other support champions. THAT RISK DIFFERENCE IS WHAT DEFINES VIABILITY. In a normal game that is fine - you're just risking losing a game without any real consequence, and as long as you try your best nobody can blame you (with any valid reason, anyway). But in a RANKED game you risk the ranks of FOUR other players besides yourself, just for your extremely egoistic pick that has a LOW chance of succeeding against any decent team composition. Dont be that kind of person. Think of other people than yourself from time to time.
: Thank you very much, I used well an hour to write the post and help from a friend to get it right :P
Then here's a cookie for you {{item:2009}} AND for your friend! {{item:2009}}
3tyson (EUW)
: F*ck dem ho's http://fanaru.com/family-guy/image/thumb/84341-family-guy-no-girls-allowed.jpg
But... but i wanted to... okay...... http://i.memeful.com/media/post/LR8Jywv_700wa_0.gif
Eveninn (EUW)
: Because perfection shall not be disturbed. ;)
{{item:2009}} for you! And for you! {{item:2009}}
: Let's clear up the whole sexism thing.
Give this woman a cookie! It doesnt matter what gender made the cookie. JUST DO IT! You put what a lot of us think into words. Thank you. Take my support!
: Uhm,I don't think you understood what I was talking about.I was mainly reffering to your "Braum can 1v1 Teemo throughout the initial 30-40 minutes of the game." This is defenetly not true.Teemo has auto-attacks that deal damage.He is also ranked making it hard for Braum to reach him.As long as nothing extremely weird happens Teemo will win every 1v1 against Braum even in the later stages of the game. What you are talking about now is a situation.A situation is never ever a good example because well,you created a situation.Something that propably wouldn't happen that way in the first place.Guss what:Teemo has range thus being able to poke down Braum and maybe even the ADC making a 2v2 at level 3 basically impossible.A ranged supp will always outpressure a melee in the early stages of the game.All in all your entire situation seems a little bit odd to me.I mean...what are Teemo and his ADC doing in such an odd position because for to make this situation work Teemo would need to stand in front of the enemy minions while they don't have any of their own.Else it is pretty hard for Braum to jump in and hit his Q because,well there should be minions in his way and Teemo has a movementspeed buff and well,propably still has flash because he doesn't just flash all of a sudden because he got hit by a Braum Q.There isn't any backround information in your scenario on why he flashed. Let me ask you a question:How many Teemos have you seen picked into Braum?
Alright, i hate to do this, but... I guess i expected too much, trying to explain to a silver player how the game works in Platinum. I can distinctly remember three games since Season 6 started that saw this matchup. Two of them were me picking Braum into Teemo, because i made the bet that he was support and not that Shen that locked first pick. Sure, past the 20 minute mark i'm not sure if i could kill Teemo on my own - but he couldnt kill me either. Anyway, i never got to try - its a waste of time trying to kill stuff on your own as a support. You can be of much more use for your team in other ways. My point is that in lane, Teemo loses out in nearly all aspects against Braum. Teemo cannot safely harrass Braum's marksman unless the marksman is awfully positioned - and if Teemo goes out of his way to poke, Braum can land a Q on him which will essentially force a flash or develop into a kill. Once Braum hits, Teemo will be extremely hard-pressed to get away from the opposing bot lane - and trying to fight them is pointless as Braum will deny his only useful trading spell, Blinding shot leaving him not only defenseless, but also without any sort of noticeable damage besides the regular toxic shot auto attacks. Provided he's actually building support he wont be able to buy attack speed, and if he isnt building a support build his team will be lacking quite essential tools for a major part of the match. Like stated before, Im certain Teemo support may work perfectly well in low levels of play. But if you reach the "middle class", things will change rapidly and it will eventually end up causing defeats by the pick alone. Teemo will usually be sneaking around in the bushes, as if he enters the lane behind the "minion line" he can be heavily harrassed by most popular carries at Plat level. (E.g. {{champion:51}}, {{champion:236}} and {{champion:222}}. Any decent marksman player will punish Teemo very heavily for attempting to harrass them. I cant speak for most other supports (besides Taric), but once Braum lands his Q on Teemo teemo will be extremely hard-pressed to get away, as long as Braum's marksman is paying attention. They will nearly instantly trigger Braum's passive, and by the time Teemo can move again Braum will land another Q on him, forcing a flash or netting them a kill. Teemo can and will put pressure on the bot lane duo BEFORE level 3. Once Braum and his marksman reaches 3, however, they can easily trade and kill Teemo. Regarding hiding behind minions - a very simply but effective Braum trick is to jump to a friendly minion and throw out a Q for Teemo. If he hits, he can usually follow up on the engage - if he misses, he can simply put up his shield and use the movement speed buff to back off before Teemo and his marksman can hit more than one or two hits on him. He can repeat this until his mana runs out, which generally lasts longer than Teemo's own mana, provided he isnt needlessly spamming his abilities.
: That feeling when....
That feeling when a Rioter makes a post on EUW Its like seeing a unicorn or a friendly player in normal draft
Declined (EUNE)
: Auch, you know I do actually read a LOT of the posts here in this subboard, but that doesn't mean I answer everything.
Woah, a live techie/wrenchman! Are you one of the new ones, or have you have you been lurking for a while?
: how do i do that i dont have Na accounts
Oh, you can use your EUW account. See the name of the boards website? boards.euw.leagueoflegends. Simply switch out euw with na and you're good to go!
: You mean early game when Teemo is built full AD? Then probably that's a troll, like Knight said below. I personally don't scale teemo AD at all. Just att speed, magic pen and AP. I rarely encounter any trouble with Teemo scaled like that (except maybe very good Syndra or LeBlanc). However I don't think Teemo support is a 100% troll, unless obviously scaled wrong and feeding.
You misunderstand - Teemo support isnt a troll pick by itself. Its simply competitively unviable in middle ranks and above. By picking it you put an even greater pressure on the players that were matched with you. If you win - great, it turned out alright! But if you fail, its more likely than usual that you were the one causing it, due to your awkward pick that is difficult to synergize with. Think of your allies - the four other players on your team - before all else when you play ranked matches.
: Shaco literally has a critical problem with his Deceive(Q) Patch 6.18
Make this exact post on the Boards in NA - there they might actually listen.
: I've seen Teemo top/mid in platinum games and they were doing quite good even in early games.
Oh yes, early game is usually where Teemo does well - that and the hyper endgame. In between... Is usually when he gets trampled all over, which in turn causes most games to end before he can reach said engame.
abixbg (EUNE)
: off meta matches usually end with "troll" team win
Off meta matches? Yes. Troll pick matches? Usually ends in surrender.
Desastrus (EUNE)
: That sounds quite reasonable, but then the question arises, where do you draw the line? For example, before Gangplank got reworked, I used to play him as a tanky support in ranked and non-ranked. Is that troll? I wasn't winning all that much, but I believe it wasn't because of the pick or my performance. In fact, my kda with him was around 5. Also, there was a guy that got to Diamond by playing GP support a lot, so I was pretty much copying what he was doing, and I believe it was going well. The problem then is, what if I'm genuinely good with the pick and am pretty sure I can make it work? If everyone had been calling me a troll and kept dodging, I simply wouldn't have been able to continue playing him like that. So there we have it - the extreme of the other end of the matter. Either way, some line needs to be drawn. But I don't know where.
Old GP support was off-meta, but viable. But league was a different game back then. These days the game revolves much, much more around teamplay and certain champion roles - in low ranks such as silver and gold you can play just about anything as support and make it work. But when you get higher up that is no longer the case - most supports must either be able to provide reliable Lockdown/Shields/Healing/Peel to work properly, or the opposing support will do just that and completely outclass the support with no presence other than doing damage. Why do you think Brand is considered a completely viable support while, say, Ryze or Syndra isnt? Brand has a quick and reliable form of lockdown that is useful at any point in the game, regardless of his personal performance - whereas Ryze and Syndra, though also having lockdown and great burst potential, are much more item reliant and have somewhat unreliable lockdown spells - e.g ineffective at disabling an opponent unless in a chasing scenario or simply hard to land with huge cooldowns. Regarding drawing a line, the line moves parallel to the rank being played - the higher you climb, the higher said line also rises in a sort of sink-or-swim scenario. Only the champions that rank on the top of the ladder of "champions with support-class capabilities" will be able to compete successfully. And on another note - that a pro player manages to pull something off does NOT mean its viable - the pros are usually the best of the best. That they can succeed with something does NOT mean average players like us will.
: > [{quoted}](name=The Yukeh,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=7gvWwRu4,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2016-09-19T12:12:14.745+0000) > > There's a difference between "off meta" and "competitively unviable". > > If the enemy team picks Braum, Annie, Leona, Janna, Lulu, Alistar or Taric the enemy bot lane will absolutely shit all over your bot lane. Teemo will be gone out of the game before four minutes pass or his adc will be zoned from farm completely until the laning phase ends. Of course this depends on player skill and what rank you play in - but teemo simply cant fulfill the duties expected of a proper support (or any role in general) until the very far-off endgame. > > Braum can 1v1 Teemo throughout the initial 30-40 minutes of the game. That means IF your opponent picks Braum into Teemo support, your entire team will suffer those nightmarish odds of winning the match. > > Its considered trolling because it is such an immeasurably egoistic pick for a competitive team-based game mode. You risk throwing the game for four other players than yourself before the match even begins. That's the definition of a troll pick. > > Stick to Teemo support in normal games. another rant about off meta picks. i cant count how many times i carried games, after being flamed for trollpicking.
As a Season 2 Urgot main i've been practically MAINTAINING the "out of meta" picks ever since - Ezreal top, Miss Fortune top, Rengar top, Urgot top, Yasuo adc, Fiora adc, Aatrox adc, Twisted Fate Jungle, Blitzcrank top, Olaf mid, Rengar support. Just to mention a few. That you HAVE carried games in the past doesnt excuse the MASSIVE risk you cause to your team. There is a massive difference between "off-meta" and "competitively unviable". In **Normal games** you may feel free to pick whatever you want, as long as you try to win with it. In **Ranked games** you might end up deciding the fate of FOUR other players' match if you make a - - - - UNVIABLE - - - - pick. I'm not ranting about off meta picks. I make them myself more than i make meta picks. Im ranting about UNVIABLE or WEAK picks that rely MORE on the ENEMY TEAM being BAD than YOU being good at the champion. Take some time to comprehend what i'm saying before picking up your pitchfork!
: Were do you get your "Braum wins every 1v1 against Teemo" from?Sure if this Teemo plays like utter garbage,sure he will lose,hoewver Teemo isn't complete utter garbage against Braum,Leona,Taric and Alistar.Teemo can free harass denying your full-ham-engage potential.And well,Teemo can shit on Braum.His shield won't safe him while Teemo is also able to dodge Braums Q. Also when is picking a certain champion in a certain role trolling?Trolling is trolling.If I pick someone like Teemo as support I am not necessarily a troll.If you pick something that only scales with AD and you build this champ full AP,sure this might be trolling but other than that it may just be trying something out for fun.Many people called me a troll for picking someone like Zac support,Zac mid,tank Ekko top (before everyone started playing him as tank) or Leona top.
I dont know about higher ELO, but at least in Plat 5-1 Braum utterly demolishes Teemo. If you land ONE Q on Teemo at level 3 that essentially forces Teemo to flash and perhaps forces the enemy marksman to use their heal. It doesnt matter if Teemo blinds Braum - thus the enemy marksman can freely fire on Teemo, while Braum keeps him slowed down with his Q. Teemo will blow up almost as fast as a Sona in this situation. Teemo might as well forget blinding Braum's marksman, due to said shield. What is that, you say? Teemo's marksman will force them to focus him or her? No, they wont. Braum will usually keep an exhaust handy, which he can slap on the enemy ADC to completely deny them any impact in attempting to save Teemo. And i'm not even a Braum main.
House x33 (EUW)
: Off meta = troll there we go again
There's a difference between "off meta" and "competitively unviable". If the enemy team picks Braum, Annie, Leona, Janna, Lulu, Alistar or Taric the enemy bot lane will absolutely shit all over your bot lane. Teemo will be gone out of the game before four minutes pass or his adc will be zoned from farm completely until the laning phase ends. Of course this depends on player skill and what rank you play in - but teemo simply cant fulfill the duties expected of a proper support (or any role in general) until the very far-off endgame. Braum can 1v1 Teemo throughout the initial 30-40 minutes of the game. That means IF your opponent picks Braum into Teemo support, your entire team will suffer those nightmarish odds of winning the match. Its considered trolling because it is such an immeasurably egoistic pick for a competitive team-based game mode. You risk throwing the game for four other players than yourself before the match even begins. That's the definition of a troll pick. Stick to Teemo support in normal games.
Kippiiq (EUW)
: Never tried milk with salt? It works :))
Is that some sort of innuendo? That sounds disgusting. Feel free to try it yourself, though.
: When you win a 1v1 vs the guy that flamed everyone all last game and then challenge you
When the enemy top laner gets carried by his jungler and acts all smug, then tilts when you point out the jungler does all the work, calls you out for a 1v1 and promptly gets stomped despite being far ahead
Kippiiq (EUW)
: you're unhealthy. Drink some milk for protein and strong bones! {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-rainbows}}
But then how will i fill up on salt before heading ingame?
314exeexe (EUNE)
: Suggestion: suicide indicator
No, there should not. Riot doesnt want to promote unhealthy play patterns.
The Yukeh (EUW)
: That Katarina is countered by Ryze doesnt mean Ryze has no counterplay. If he fails his combo he's screwed, and he does have distinct counterplay. (Specifically, the same as {{champion:67}}, {{champion:11}}, {{champion:157}}, {{champion:92}} and similar - tanks and CC.
He also struggles against champions with high burst that doesnt expose the caster - {{champion:101}}, {{champion:134}}, {{champion:63}}, {{champion:7}} (pre-rework) {{champion:99}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:69}} as well as champions with gap closers {{champion:39}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:5}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:60}} {{champion:245}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:121}} {{champion:203}} {{champion:91}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:154}} {{champion:114}} and champions that can straight up bruteforce their way through (that means tank and outdamage him) {{champion:1}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:32}} {{champion:34}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:3}} (Pre-rework and most likely post-rework) {{champion:10}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:127}} {{champion:68}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:77}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:15}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:28}} or champions with high attack speed and stickiness {{champion:96}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:22}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:126}} {{champion:240}} {{champion:203}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:35}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:5}} {{champion:157}} What was that you said about no counterplay again?
The Yukeh (EUW)
: My first item {{item:3065}} {{champion:122}} laughs at your naiveté
That Katarina is countered by Ryze doesnt mean Ryze has no counterplay. If he fails his combo he's screwed, and he does have distinct counterplay. (Specifically, the same as {{champion:67}}, {{champion:11}}, {{champion:157}}, {{champion:92}} and similar - tanks and CC.
: Basically you find fun into snaring ppl for 2 secs providing 0 counter play and destroying them in less than a sec no matter what items you got ? Well that explains a lot...
My first item {{item:3065}} {{champion:122}} laughs at your naiveté
: If you could be "Riot" for a day...
Roll back to Season 3-4 for a weekend. _We will newer get to experience the golden age again and it's killing me_
Eveninn (EUW)
: What's your main?
But... He was my main at the end of Season 3 and halfway through season 4... {{item:3078}} Drawen with lifesteal runes nearly unbeatable.
: Literally ever rework is for the worst... RYze is the pure example...
Actually i found ryze more fun to play with ewery rework he got. (My single W key is broken, please dont hate on the w)
: Don't f*ck up Kata
Im a Rengar main and im looking forward to the rework. JUST DO IT, RIOT CHANGE THEM ALL FOR THE BETTER
I allways knew i had a skeleton inside me I could feel it in my bones
: Low diamond is far worse.
I got in to Plat 1. Then laughed as i realized a MASSIVE amount of Diamond V players are blatantly boosted - i havent seen or faced players as bad as them since i was Silver. I once played against a Lux with mastery 7 that was Master in Season 5. She built chalice of harmony, boots of mobility and zeal, then ragequit the game at her 13th death to our Leblanc, after writing an essay in [All] on all the possible ways you can say "kill yourself" in french. I've never been to Diamond. And i'm no longer sure i ever want to.
: Plat elo is the worst experience I've ever had
Oh look, someone else DO share my impression of Plat. I was so proud when i got there in Season 5. I also got banned after the new "do not speak a single curse word ever" punishment system was put into place. Its almost hilarious how climbing through Gold is harder than climbing through Plat. Worst of all - when i reach Plat 1, i started getting matched with Diamond V. You'd expect them to be good, right? Oh no, the people in Diamond facing Plats are those who bought accounts (or got their own account boosted) and are currently on the way down. On the bright side these awful players get placed on both teams. On the downside these awful players get placed on both teams. Ranked is already massively hit and miss regarding teammates - even more so in Plat.
CJXander (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=The Yukeh,realm=EUW,application-id=Mpd1UjGe,discussion-id=t4OeJFgX,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-09-11T23:08:44.313+0000) > > Woah, you made it FOR him? I'm a huge fan of him. Is this your first modeling job done for him? I've meddled in modeling myself, mainly for Mount & Blade Warband. The chest really looks good, if a little thin and brightly textured! Is the shader provided by the engine, or did you create the lighting yourself as well? Yeah it's the first model i did for him, but i've also did some 4k textures for him as well, if you can recall the Taric episode.
That's my favourite!
CJXander (EUNE)
: Hextech Chest 3D model
Woah, you made it FOR him? I'm a huge fan of him. Is this your first modeling job done for him? I've meddled in modeling myself, mainly for Mount & Blade Warband. The chest really looks good, if a little thin and brightly textured! Is the shader provided by the engine, or did you create the lighting yourself as well?
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The Yukeh

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