: > [{quoted}](name=The Crimson Owl,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=JgHPHMA2,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-09-04T06:43:24.137+0000) > > ...WHY? Because foot fetish
Don't we all have a little foot fetish?
Rioter Comments
: i got a D!!!
Why need a D after the game, when Riot fucks us every patch?
: ***
Okay good to get a reminder of that, wasn't much of a ranked player before, too much toxicity. But yes a pure solo queue could be great. Just felt it was weird how the hate kinda exploded with dynamic (though this was Riots chance to fix it). Since you've said the old queue was garbage as well, do you know why the boards weren't filled with a demand for a solo queue only? Because, while there were (like you said) a group of people asking for it, now I can barely go for 10 seconds on youtube or forums, without hearing complaints about it. Do you think that people were just used to it back then, or because this could have been a fresh start for League and competetive solo queue?
Rioter Comments
warwiller (EUNE)
: Why would you make sure that your late game champion wins teamfights if you could be the late game champion and win the teamfights yourself Jax is best champion of whole world, nothing compares. This is the truth.
Because by playing to their strengths, you amplify them, increasing them exponentially. One example of this could be Azir, where he can outdamage most champs over time, as long as he can keep his distance. Though you are right, Jax is an excellent champion, I used to play him a decent amount 3 seasons back. These days he is mostly strong cause his item is strong *cough* *cough* {{item:3124}} But I do hope Riot nerfs that item one day, and maybe then we can see some meaningful changes to Jax :)
warwiller (EUNE)
: Janna is mid tier, Jax is the best
For solo carrying, yes But for supporting and making sure, that your late-game champs win the teamfight for you? Questionable Plus Janna Q > Jax Q (jkjk)
Rioter Comments
Toazter (EUW)
: Becoming a better Irelia
Hey guys, thanks for the tips. I have noticed a small improvement, especially in my ability to carry games
Emillie (EUW)
: I main Irelia for top lane. Irelia is all about the triforce powerspike; the earlier you get it the harder you'll carry. So I suggest you take ignite unless you really can't kill the opponent (malphite, renekton, darius, etc. - then you take tp). Start flask and always try to rush a sheen, if you can't get it on the first back then go for ruby+longsword. Look for low hp minions to q to and trade with the enemy. You can either go for a kill, using q again when they flash, or just trade, using q to get away when your w effect ends. Get q first vs ranged, e first vs melee. Usually you max w first unless the opponent has a really good 1v1 early (trynd, riven), then you max e first. Her powerspikes are levels 3,4,5,6,7,9, at level 9 with triforce she is strongest champion in the game, and then falls off. Remember to always try to get the most sheen procs out of your abilities. Buy cdr if snowballing (fh, sv, ghostblade = 40%), else just get the tankier items (randuin, bv, warmog). Also you can start teamfights by q'ing onto a minion near a carry (you don't have to get a reset) and then flash stun them.
Thanks for the tips, I will try to use them all in my next games. Do you feel starting W, could ever be a good idea? For example if I know, I will take lots of harrass, (Malph, Darius, etc), wouldn't W help me sustain better, esp. since I won't have kill potential anyway, with no ignite.
: Utilize Teleport by looking botlane when they're skirmishing. -> Enemy out of position and at a killable HP? -> TP in for free kills. Irelia has a fairly simple play style. Get level 5-7 and a fast Sheen. Let enemy run up to you or you run up to them -> E for auto stun -> Activate W. Hit 3-4 times -> Use Ultimate if available -> Secure kill with Q or use Q before W ends. Is how most typical Irelia lanes go. As for a Tip. When in a fight using your ultimate, time your R clicks. You get a Sheen proc each time you click it, but only if you space 2 seconds apart. More Sheen More Damage. Don't get discouraged. Even if you go 0 / 8 on lane, Irelia powerspikes so hard when Triforce is completed that she can kill the enemy Carries even if they're several thousand gold ahead. Don't just mindlessly E targets, pay attention to your HP vs theirs. A 2 second stun is infinitely more valuable than a slow.
Thanks for the tips, one question though: Do you feel that sometimes the fights are too shorts to fully utilize the ult + sheen combo? I knew that combo, but I feel most of the time I need the ult more for immediately damage and sustain, rather than more damage over longer time
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Jens DV (EUW)
: Gotta hug 'em all!
Quick question? Is there a single hug, that you explicity remember? PS. hug me senpai
Melonizer (EUW)
: Release of a new Summoner's Rift winter map maybe?
I love the winter map, it looks so nice, but it can make it pretty hard to notice a lot of skillshots and moves. And with how much Riot can be pushing clarity, it won't come back without a lot of changes.
Rioter Comments
: After i have read all your comments on stun not being op before im like wtf. I mean he had a 2.5 second stun that was a huge ass AOE Which was undodgeball if you were good at it. I think that this nerf was nessesary Now he is better at zoning. Also i gotta say i like the new Q because you have 1. longer range and 2. You can kite with it, Thats why i also liked rengars E change to skillshot instead of lockon :) my opinions. {{summoner:31}}
It was OP. REALLY OP. It had to be changed, but i feel like just giving it a delay, was lazy and badly designed. They could have done alot of interesting stuff with it, having it "build", make it start big and then shrink, or opposite, start small (instant stun), and then grow. Instead with that 0.75 delay, all it does is make Veigars tough lanes, even tougher.
Darknex (EUW)
: Veigar was strong, very strong in the right hands. He snowballed very hard and i just LOVED to roll all over my enemies(up to [and including] diamond players). I was not troubled that much by junglers. Place wards and a sufficient E and you are fine. Eve and shaco are the worst for me, bc if you see them its too late. Of course you cant pick him versus any champ as you like, as a decent zed for example will harass you for good. And yes, We ( Veigars ) are team depended. *Funfact: With the remove of DFG lots of people complained they are not able to take down tanks 100-0 . Well, maybe its just me, but imo Veigar was not supposed to do so! Your target is any carry you get your tiny evil hands on, burst him away, laugh evil and bath in their tears, reading that your champ is just for noobs and doesnt need any skill. Well,a bit off the track here, so btt.* With this rework of his abilities he is even more farm depended, so not the best rework for aram( related to first sentence of the thread creator) . I really dont like the delay of 0.75 seconds as it is just unlikely that you will stun your target in 1v1 ( and therefore hit your other spells properly ) . As a counter for incoming ganks its still good to use, just needs a small adjustment where to place it. His Q is... interesting i'd say. Farming got a lot more efficient, while hitting your enemies without any cc is more difficult now. Thus you will want a gank from your jungler in early game to get you a good start. His R has a slightly less ability ratio than before, but thats fine i guess. In a first try (1v1 custom game) my AP farm on Q was better than before the rework, as you can , and should, use the ability to last hit two creeps instead of one. I definitely wont say that veigar got stronger. Hell no. But this change went somewhere in the right direction. Even if its far off from being perfect.
Hello thanks for the in-depth comment. I just wanted to clear something, about the ARAM comment i made. I personally feel like that with his new Q, he should (in theory), be better at teamfighting, with a whole new AoE skill. But I just couldn't feel that at all, playing against this Veigar. Everything about it seemed slow, weird, and way to easy to simply avoid. Plus another sad thing is, that while the change made him even more team reliant, it also proportionally made him worse in Solo Q. Since you can't always rely 100% on your teammates there, you have to be able to make an impact by yourself. But hopefully, this change means he can be buffed next patch. #TheVeigarDream
tiutea (EUNE)
: Just relax. i played more than 200 game with him 100 % _ and veigar was cool u have a lot dmg agains low health adc or ap carry, but if u miss stan u die instantaly mid-late game.(even early) y they made q stronger for farm and r weaker for tf. but most bad thing that e got big delay. u cant put w and make combo for kill /// cause now they escape stan... no stan no dmg from w, no kill > no bonus ap /// or u dont stan irealia or akali come and kill u insta So i think is debaff/ or just RIOT wanted omre popularity for veigar
That's the thing, IF you miss. Before the rework he was a lot more reliable, which I personally think was fair, since he was a short-ranged, immobile burster. Now he's a 200 longer ranged, immobile burster, with a delay on all his basic abilities. And at least before if Irelia, Akali, Zed, Talon, Le'Blanc, or any short ranged champion tried to get close, you could stun them instantly, before they put down their burst. Now you just waddle away, with your 345 msp.
: ok then. lets think about swain's root, namis bubble and zileans bomb stuns. for a start, NONE of these abilities need ranks in order to have the full CC. swain has 2 seconds of root level 1 if he wants. nami's wierd semi-knockup lasts as long as the animation. so... so much for your "gotta chose between CC and damage... because of all the people you listed, in fact of all the CC supports i could care to name, NONE of them have to rank a damageless ability just to have an effective amount of CC. secondly, whats the OTHER main difference between their abilities and veigars? their abilities cover the ENTIRE bubble. everyone in the bubble takes the stun. simple as that. so if you lead your opponent by enough, they will definitely take it. veigar only gets the stun if, after a full second (0.25 second to cast, 0.75 warning) the enemy choses to stand on the highlighted ring. if they weave back (assuming they havent just walked out or leapt away) then they can in turn lob THIER cc at veigar, or just laugh and weave about, dodging his 1.2 second delayed W and his low-range minion-blockable, slow Q. the comparable reliability of having a full bubble to CC with compared to a skinny ring is HUGE. finally, lets look at the (in my opinion) most important, and largest, nail in veigars coffin. the bit everyone overlooks for the sake of thier own convenience. the rest of the champion's kit. nami misses the bubble? oh well its not the end of the world she can still contribute with her heal (targeted) or her autoattack steroid (targeted) or her massive OTHER CC. swain missed the E? oh well.... its the only ability he has that CAN miss, so hes still got 75% of his damaging abilities to fall back on. zilean? not a big deal for zil to miss the stun since hes still doing AoE damage and can still ult and speed/slow people. this is the bit people ignore. they look at an AoE 2 second stun and think "wow that so broken"... but then they ignore the fact that without this stun veigar cannot effectively fight anyone. his W has a 1.2 second uptime. 1.2 seconds of warning, AFTER the animation. name me one other ability that would survive like that? guaranteed ezreal wouldnt get played again if his Q took 1.2 seconds to start firing and showed where it was going to land. syndra would see a drop in play if her orbs went from thier 0.5 second delay to 1.2 . on top of that, he spends part of that 2 seconds walking into range of his other abilities. most of veigars lane stuns are landed at max range, so hes gotta walk the 400 or so units to get in range of the R. now that hes got NO stun, hes gotta walk through space that is going to be FILLED with pain and CC. ahris charm, xeraths E, ziggs W and E, swain E ironically, cass W and Q and even R. it seems like veigars entire kit was put on AFTER the E, with the idea in mind being "well its impossible to land normally but the stun makes it landable". and now they have made the stun harder to land then map-long ashe arrows with a blindfold on because it relies not on you placing it well, but on your opponent actively walking into it knowingly. he may as well hand his opponent all his items and go "i cant kill you, so can you please kill yourself?" ... and then sit about wondering how he died. i really , REALLY want veigar to be okay. i wanted this power shift to free up some "counterplay" power points to put elsewhere in his kit. but they gave him more counterplay in this nerf then i have ever seen in my 3 seasons of play, and gave the rest of his kit NOTHING but nerfs.... tell me.. how is this compensation in any way? if i hit someone with my car, am i expected to pay them money? or go around and break all their limbs for good measure. if they absolutely CANNOT allow veigar to have a stun, as it seems they cannot (looks at impending "bard" champ with 2 hard CCs and a full team wall-hop). then at least up the range of his Q to that of other mages (at least a solid 800 to cope with ahri) and make his Wfaster, so it becomes more like brands W then "that ability that used to work when he had a stun, but now is only good for pushing the wave". edit 26/02/2015- missed a few letters out and it made no sense. fixed it :)
+1 for this. Veigar's old kit worked pretty good together, only problem was that none of the parts worked alone. Now they made that even clearer. Can't hit E? Well that also means no Q+W. Oh look at that, now I can't burst anyone cause I have one ability. Also on that last note, it might be good for pushing the wave, but didn't Veigar already have that? W?? It seems Riot really forgot, what Veigar's kit really is about and what it does.
: So i replayed pokemon firerred a few days ago...
: *E: Event Horizon This spell needed to be reworked. Like it was really, REALLY strong before. You could pretty much play as a stunbot only, while also having insane burst. So it needed a rework. But simply making it have a delay?? That is absurd, and if i dare say, quite stupid. With the delay, if your enemy is blind you might be able to stun them. But trying to catch an enemy in lane, or someone trying to jump you? That will never happen. * Oh yea, instead it's great for your information if you can stun and instakill everybody in late-game.
I think you misunderstood me (or I misunderstood you). Being able to catch and burst someone late-game is awesome! But what if you're getting caught? How will you defend yourself, since your E won't help you with that, with it's delay so long, that any assassin can burst you, or any other mid can get around/through, with out getting stunned? I think nerfing it as it is, was a bad idea, since it made Veigar even more defenseless.
Toazter (EUW)
: A talk about Veigar
Hey just want to add, I love the discussion here. I do think that Veigar is still the same in teamfights, but i feel that his laning, and reliability has been hurt too much with these changes.
: > [{quoted}](name=Rappiros,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=EOwvp7um,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2015-02-25T16:00:15.720+0000) > > Veigar was never strong. NEVER! Even with DFC its a champ dealing ONE kill - For 3 Years playing him I have NEVER done pentakill!! > > Veigar is NOT the only champ with huge dmg, BUR > > HAS NO MOBILITY > HAS NO SURVIVABILITY > IS SHORT RANGED > HAS LOOOOONG CDs > HAS HUGE MANA COSTS > > It was weaker that most of the assassins as he was. Now he is UNPLAYABLE! Veigar was never strong? So 100-0 any squishy in lategame and blow up careless AP carries with one ability wasn't strong? And the reliability and range, not to mention duration of his stun made it impossible to get close to him without insane mobility. I think you may have underestimated him just because he's little, my friend. He was indeed too strong and needed to be nerfed.
I kinda agree with you, except for one thing. It wasn't him that was strong, it was his E. All that range and reliability, that was only on his stun. His W will never hit on a non-stunned target (which is good), and his Q+R had so ridiculously short range. And let's not talk about the Cleanse/Mikale's/QSS counter to his E... Problem was that, if you missed that stun, you could pretty much order your gravestone if the enemy was within 1000 units.
: Veigar was simply too strong. Think about Swain's root, Nami's bubble, Zilean's bomb stuns. They are all immensely harder to land, and yet none of them has Veigar's stun duration (2.5 seconds at level 5 is the highest duration for stuns!) I played Veigar support, and the only reason I ever lost was because Veigar has to choose between CC duration and burst, which is balanced. Because having both would make him OP as heck. His E now does what it was originally intended to do - box people in. The stun was just the punishment for touching the edges, it wasn't supposed to be that reliable. You must admit that a Veigar instastunning you and full-combing you from across the lane with no counterplay is kind of ïnsane.
Indeed. He was too strong, even "broken" (in a state of either OP or UP, no inbetween) The stun was what made and broke him. Which is why I think straight up nerfing was a really bad idea. I really wished they would just rework it, perhaps into a completely different ability. At least then he could be buffed in the damage apartment. But sadly that didn't happen. Instead Veigar will be jumped by assassins and junglers way easier, because he can no longer instastun to defend himself.
: @Riot ChaosMAO should have to say something about this, seeing as he loves Veigar so much =3
Would be cool with a Riot response, but it probably won't happen, since another, much more popular Veigar thread hasn't gotten one either.
Mario 2K15 (EUNE)
: He is the same. Riot switched power around and gave him some new ones. @everyone saying Veigar was already trash tier, they're wrong. He was and believe still is a god tier champion, just nobody played him. I've carried games on him just because of his unbelievable power.
I never said he was trash tier before, and would debate him being trash tier now. My problem with this rework is that, instead of giving him som QoL changes, they made and already unreliable champion, into an even more unreliable champion. You *might* hit your Q, you *might* hit your W, you *might* hit your E. Not that unreliability is that bad, but I find it sad, because it *might* hammer Veigar into being even more unpopular. Though he might be able to hang out with Emumu now.
Rappiros (EUNE)
: They nerfed its Q too - you could almost never get instakill with its ult anyway - the Q harassment is necessity, but now its unreliable... I am not gonna play this. Why on EARTH after YEARS they decide to change exactly Veigar - a champ, completely unable to make pentakills and carry games... WHY??? I was playing it for the fun of doing so, not even to win... But now its over. Will look for another game...
Agree, it kinda sucks now having only 1 reliable spell (ult). Pretty much what it says is, "Glhf trying to harrass an enemy until you can flash ult them. PS you're short ranged lol"
shileka (EUW)
: played him, the delay on the E isn't that bad, you'll land more stuns than you think, especialy in teamfights it's very powerfull as just seeing it being cast can make the enemy run away, Q is very easy to farm with but indeed harrasing isn't strong (but you're veigar you don't harras you delete) W is indeed easy to dodge without CC but who uses it without any CC? it's also very strong when being chased as no one blindly runs into the impact zone
It might not be bad in teamfights, cause there everything is just a big cluster, but getting ganked, alled-in, or simply trying to catch someone roaming? It's simply too slow, and will get you killed alot of times. But good with opposing view points, I just want something that's both fair for the opponent and Veigar.
Rappiros (EUNE)
: I Uninstalled the game after seeing the Veigar NERFING - its my most favorite champ and I will not play anymore. First of all - DFC removal means that Veigar CANT kill tnaks! Second - Veigar was NEVER mobile and ALWAYS Easy to kill - its stun is a means to survive (From gangs) not only to kill... The change of Q is so bad... Its now NOT a reliable harassment tool anymore... Veigar was very easy to kill or at least able to deal good damage only if focuses ap/low HP champs and with these changes is unable to do that. Every jumping hero assassin could kill him with ease with no chance to escape (but flash and its stun)... RIOT said they will compensate Veigar for the lack of DFC - and they NERFED it!!!!! WHY??? WHY TOUCH THE ABILITIES AT ALL???!?!?! Anyway... I was spending too much time in game, so they make me happy to kick me out of the community after 3 years.
I agree with everything you said. I don't get how it's possible for anyone to think nerfing an immobile, squishy, assassin's ONLY defensive option could ever be a good idea.
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