: Riven's current state & Potential improvements
The passive concept seems fine to me, although not necessary in her current state. Since she is an ad caster she will 90% of the time build armor pen items anyway. The only champion that have this mechanic are yasuo and caitlyn and both are autoattack based. Also reducing cooldown by a flat amount is extremely more effective reduction while building cdr but seems fair enough considering that the riven player will have to think better about chaining abilities with basic attacks. As of now riven, along with most glass cannon top laners and junglers have no middle ground in their gameplay: they will either do very well and snowball the entire game, or do extremely bad and be completely useless. A riven/fiora/shaco that cant kill a carry in less than 1 sec offers next to nothing in a team and that is the main problem that should be fixed with these type of champions in some way
: Abomination
KILL IT BEFORE IT LAYS EGGS
LikeOrbit (EUW)
: You probably didn't play in the Orianna\Ziggs META. People was mad man... Mages can be just as toxic as assassins can be.
> [{quoted}](name=OrbitLike,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=Hg4sNwnZ,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-03T19:08:02.050+0000) > > You probably didn't play in the Orianna\Ziggs META. > > People was mad man... Mages can be just as toxic as assassins can be. I have been around for 5 years. I have gone through the league of assassins, league of mid supports and league of tanks. Assassins are by far the most annyoing to deal with imo.
Aingaz (EUW)
: what about quinn ?
She can bully several matchups really hard, but in the end of the day your team is left with a paper top, forcing jungler to be the only reliable tank in your team. The best position for quinn imo would be mid and be played like an assassin would.
: i thought this was going to be analysis as to why he is a popular pick, but it was a buff shout? the best wave clear in the game, it gives him exceptional safety whilst in mid lane, and his lack of mobilty is fixed by his extremely potent zone control, (stun, storm, laser). ( it is best because he can clear them before they group, which is rare. he has a really long range poke, with a 98% AP ratio. a unique item that gives 150 AP at fully built alongside that it has a really good build path. his last hit animation is incredibly slick and makes early last hitting easy. all of this is offset by his lack of mobility, which once you reach teamfight stage has no effect as his long range and zone control are far more effective than a dash will be, and a spell that uses the rumble ult mechanic which puts a lot of people off him. i don't want to see him buffed, i want to see him and some other mages become more popular because they realise they are strong champions, rather than having them overtuned and u can play them anywhere
> [{quoted}](name=Piantissimo,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=Hg4sNwnZ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-07-03T17:08:56.053+0000) > > i thought this was going to be analysis as to why he is a popular pick, but it was a buff shout? > > the best wave clear in the game, it gives him exceptional safety whilst in mid lane, and his lack of mobilty is fixed by his extremely potent zone control, (stun, storm, laser). ( it is best because he can clear them before they group, which is rare. > > he has a really long range poke, with a 98% AP ratio. > > a unique item that gives 150 AP at fully built alongside that it has a really good build path. > > his last hit animation is incredibly slick and makes early last hitting easy. > > all of this is offset by his lack of mobility, which once you reach teamfight stage has no effect as his long range and zone control are far more effective than a dash will be, and a spell that uses the rumble ult mechanic which puts a lot of people off him. > > i don't want to see him buffed, i want to see him and some other mages become more popular because they realise they are strong champions, rather than having them overtuned and u can play them anywhere As I said, its not a buff shout. The only buff I would like to include is the free cdr on hex core to stabilize his build path. That is a feature most late game focused mages already have ({{champion:69}} ,{{champion:13}} ) so why not viktor as well? And while his zone control is decent, it is highly outclassed by {{champion:268}} and {{champion:69}}. Also his laser is not as much of a reliable poke tool because of its long cd and narrow hitbox. Aside from this, the changes I suggested are quality of life ones and making feel more rewarding.
LikeOrbit (EUW)
: Viktor is in a fragile spot right now in my opinion. If he was played more people would defenitely QQ about him (As a Priority pick or ban champion); Viktor is really a good mage for one reason: He's reliable. he has an all around kit. And even when behind he's a threat. And when fed he just wins games on his own. His build path is flexible, he can adapt to situations. Cooldown reduction on him is awfully effective. He scales hard into late game, even when behind. Any little, little change (Even a QoL change) would bring more attention to him, and everyone will start playing him. Leave where he is. And let's wait until it's the proper moment to talk about Viktor changes.
All the suggestions I put were not about buffing his damage, they are just to make his gameplay feel smoother. He has become a quite common pick in higher elo already, ever since he started getting played in the lcs about 2 months ago. The meta already does not favor since he lacks the means to deal with tanks as other mages do and does not have reliable self peel for them. At the same time he cant do very well against poke-siege comps because of his short range. Mages don't cause such a b*tching storm on the player base that assassins do anyway so Im not worried about him becoming more popular.
Rioter Comments
: Ignite vs Exhaust on supports
{{summoner:3}} is much better when the enemy team has assassins like {{champion:238}} or{{champion:55}} in order to reduce their burst. {{summoner:14}} is also better when picked on an aggressive early support like {{champion:53}} or {{champion:89}} if they want to attempt a level 2-3 all in. I guess both are viable in their own right, depending on the lane type as well as enemy team comp
Sdars (EUW)
: The biggest problem is that, while 0.25 seconds is quite possible to react to, though still a bit hard, if you have a normal ping, like 75, your window of reaction is actually 0.1, as it is 0.25-2x0.75=0.1. And now 0.1 is indeed pretty much impossible. So either your ping is low, or you can't even dream of dodging Annie's ult, except by predicting it, or if she's slow with her Flash+R. I think 0.35 or 0.4 seconds would be a good number.
0.4 would still be almost instant regardless of ping compared to other big aoe ultimates. For example, {{champion:61}} ultimate has 0.75 second delay and needs good ball position beforehand. {{champion:69}} also has the same windup and is also extremely telegraphed. {{champion:112}} is also on 0.25 cast time but does less initial damage and does not stun. Either way, {{champion:1}} may have shorter range but the fact that its almost impossible to react to and deals so much damage is simply unfair in most situations.
Sdars (EUW)
: Annie's R should have a bigger delay
Her R only has 0.25 cast time, which is pretty much impossible to react. A good change for her imo would be to slighly increase its range at the cost of giving it a short animation (throwing the bear, or simply displaying the radius before it goes off). Every other big aoe stun is hard to pull off, I dont see a reason why annie's should be that simple
: Question for platinum+
Not really. Ap support mf offers nothing aside from damage and a mediocre slow zone. Annie can deal the same amount of damage on top of having an instant stun (better nerf veigar) regardless of the lane she plays. I would go as far as call ap support mf a trollpick, since going regular adc is simply better.
LiftLift (EUNE)
: Talon rune page set up.
I personally prefer going flat damage in marks and quints. Having tested both they are more reliable, since they help with farming a lot (since you will get pushed around early game, you will need to last hit under tower). I also like running some scalling cdr on blues, just enough to reach 35%-40% cdr in 18. Seals depend on the matchup, armor vs ad mids and scaling hpp vs aps are the best choice
: You can at least hide under your tower when playing against Darius.
A smart darius player will not just push without wards and let you free farm. He will freeze and stand in the middle of your wave so if you try to cs you will have an axe-ident (heh), but his tower diving is almost as strong as riven, even without mobility.
: You want to rework Darius a little for being such a lanebully, but what about Riven?
Actually, Darius is way worse laning against than riven. Eventhough he lacks her mobility, he can zone much better and has higher early-mid game damage than her. Riven has to pick her lane trades carefully, since she has no persistent damage or mobility once she has used her abilities because her early cooldowns are very long. Also she has innately weak stats (especially hp and regen) so she will lack sustain until she gets a hydra. Darius on the other hand is dangerous in lane for any situation. He can win both short trades (Q + auth + W burst) and if he wants to all in he can just pull in and go for the ult execute. All of this is also way easier to pull off than a riven trade. As for yorick, it is easy to play around his ghouls by going into bushes and he will run out of mana fast if he keeps spamming his abilities.
: Darius Apprehend E bug?
It is not exactly a bug. The way the ability works is that the pull locks targets at the start of the animation, but pulls them when it finishes. So is you happen to flash or use any other mobilty spell at that 0.25 sec window of the animation, it will still pull you if you were in range on the first place. Can be stupid sometimes, but hey at least it looks cool
: Why is Lux considered as a bad support?
Main problem with lux is both support and mid role is her mana costs. For the amount of damage her abilities deal, which is below average compared to most other mages, her costs are way too high. Her E alone chunks 130 mana at max rank, which is also her main damage spell. Either way, lux makes for a better mid laner than a support since trading in lane heavily pushes it and she relies a lot on gold income and high ap items to be even close to useful.
: > [{quoted}](name=Yianis,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=yfTLvE4n,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-06-22T03:51:18.872+0000) > > Ziggs build is pretty linear. You always want to rush an athene's or a morellos (based on opposing enemy mid). This should fix most mana issues. Afterwards you get one of the 3 120 ap items. Deathcap is the most consistent damage item to get when ahead, ludens is better when it comes to sieging, while zhonya's when they have a fed ad assassin (mostly zed or talon) and he is a big threat for you. In a balanced game, it is better to go for void staff as 3rd item since at this point most of the enemies will have built at least 1 mr item. In 90% of the games your endgame build should look like this: > {{item:3020}} /{{item:3158}} ,{{item:3174}} /{{item:3165}} ,{{item:3089}} ,{{item:3135}} ,{{item:3157}} ,{{item:3285}} . > > Other items that could work sometimes are {{item:3003}} and {{item:3116}} , but they are not as reliable as the other ones, since tear will make your laning extremely weak and ziggs does not need more than one mana dedicated item. You will only get it if you are too desperate with your mana management and if you do, get it with a morellos (athene's is a bit overkill). Rylais does not work all that went on ziggs since all of his spells are aoe and thus apply a lesser slow, but the bonus health can sometimes save you when other defenses are not enough. So what you're saying is If im against an AP mid rush chalice and if im not , I should go for morelo's right? But isnt Athene's more expensive than morelo's . and what do you think of lichbane on ziggs?
Athene's is more of a defensive option on ziggs if you are up against an ap mid and its regen stats will make sure you never run oom (that's why its more expensive). You should still get morello if the enemy has a lot of healing (soraka/mundo/vlad etc.) or if you are ahead early on and want to get a powerspike ASAP. {{item:3100}} works well with his passive, but ziggs is a poke based mage and most of the time you should not be in auto range to proc it. {{item:3285}} is simply better on him as a last item on a standard build.
: Help me build ziggs!
Ziggs build is pretty linear. You always want to rush an athene's or a morellos (based on opposing enemy mid). This should fix most mana issues. Afterwards you get one of the 3 120 ap items. Deathcap is the most consistent damage item to get when ahead, ludens is better when it comes to sieging, while zhonya's when they have a fed ad assassin (mostly zed or talon) and he is a big threat for you. In a balanced game, it is better to go for void staff as 3rd item since at this point most of the enemies will have built at least 1 mr item. In 90% of the games your endgame build should look like this: {{item:3020}} /{{item:3158}} ,{{item:3174}} /{{item:3165}} ,{{item:3089}} ,{{item:3135}} ,{{item:3157}} ,{{item:3285}} . Other items that could work sometimes are {{item:3003}} and {{item:3116}} , but they are not as reliable as the other ones, since tear will make your laning extremely weak and ziggs does not need more than one mana dedicated item. You will only get it if you are too desperate with your mana management and if you do, get it with a morellos (athene's is a bit overkill). Rylais does not work all that went on ziggs since all of his spells are aoe and thus apply a lesser slow, but the bonus health can sometimes save you when other defenses are not enough.
: shaclone anyone? shaco main.. challenjour
Sure I know shaclone is a shaco diehard in high elo (he is currently master I think), but he is also among the most toxic players in champ select. He will always instalock shaco even if another teammate has picked a jungler, forcing his team into unpleasant situations (most of the time double jungle, or the other guy goes top eventually). Otherwise he goes shaco ap mid which, no matter how good he is with him, ends up being as useful as the likes of teemo and quinn top.
: Has Irelia become too strong?
Irelia can be a real nightmare to deal with. Once she hits level 6 it is impossible to win an all in trade against her in lane. She has probably the strongest mid game powerspike in the game (tforce and lv 11), she can laugh at enemy cc because of her passive and her E guarantees that she will win any duel. That's not to say she is completely broken. She is extremely vulnerable early game and can be bullied very easily. Her w has a long cooldown (9 seconds once the active is used) and without it she is much weaker, also while flat true damage is borderline broken midgame, it falls off later on since it doesn't scale at all. Her teamfight presence is also not as strong as most other top laners. She has strictly single target damage, so she plays pretty much like a tanky assassin in fights. I would not call her op because of all these issues, but I still feel like her mid game is too strong. A good change imo would be reducing the base true damage of her active w, but adding a slight ad ratio (similarly to olaf) would balance her across most phases of the game.
El Mage (EUW)
: Lets talk about our friend ... Shaco
Well, shaco has not been touched much by riot since he is such a fan favorite champion (there is a handful of players that only play shaco and nobody else). His early game is extremely strong since he can 'cheat' his way through the jungle by one shotting any neutral camp at level with boxes (thus the duration is just 1 min because otherwise he could clear 2 camps instantly back when it was 90 seconds), although I agree they should prioritize champions. His E also is pretty outdated, I mean non-champion dodge chance? come on. It would be better if it dealt physical damage. Aside from urf, playing ap shaco is pointless. His ult seems ok overall, the only part that would deserve change is that the clone would keep autoattacking even if shaco died (but not controlled, just attacking the last target). His q is the most defining ability, but a few changes would be welcome. It is among the 2 abilities in the game that have reduced mana cost at higher ranks, mostly to keep him from spamming it early game but it still feels like it is too much. Also the cooldown should be reduced through ranks to keep him mobile in teamfights. 11 seconds is just too much considering it is the only mobility he has.
ExileSorrow (EUNE)
: Champions that shouldnt be rebalanced
Zyra can still perform well but she is extremely situational. Her base stats are among the worst and her mana costs are absurd. She used to be top tier mage-supports back in season 3 but now she is simply outclassed. Ahri is completely fine now imo. Lissandra could use a passive that is not completely useless outside of lane, but aside from that she is ok. {{champion:7}} is still pretty toxic to lane against and I think deserves the syndra treatment (cut off abilities base damage at earlier ranks, but leave them unchanged when maxed). There are a lot of champions whose kits are simply gimped and outdated and cannot be balanced aside from a full-on gameplay (and visual) update: {{champion:31}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:83}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:98}}
jana (EUW)
: well then {{champion:245}} works fine top lane with nice scalings, mobility and sustain. {{champion:107}} top would also fit your description. {{champion:10}} + (no op late game scaling) {{champion:105}} + (no sustain) {{champion:55}} + (no sustain) {{champion:157}} +(bad sustain early + mobility is dependent on minions/champions) also adc's generaly works fine in top lane ({{champion:133}} ,{{champion:67}} ) and scale excelent. i am sure i missed some champs but these are most likely the ones that fit it. cheers
all of the champs you mentioned (aside from Rengar) are assassins better fit for mid lane since they are extremely squishy and have no sustain (which is why they are not suited for top). As for {{champion:67}} and {{champion:133}} sure they may be able to bully several top laners early on but their team will lack a reliable frontline (which is expected from a top laner)
: Give me some Zac tips please.
I will try to give you the best of my knowledge about jungle zac: Always start gromp -> blue -> red and attempt an early gank on mid from bush if the enemy is close enough (zac's lv 3 burst is pretty strong for a tank) Don't always rush to collect blobs when clearing the camps. Use all of your cooldowns at first and then walk around collecting them to make best use of W cooldown. E is always the best ability to max when jungling since the range increases by a lot, especially after lv 7 when it can go through bot lane's big walls. Get some scaling cdr on glyphs ( 10% is enough along with ionian boots, spirit visage and 5% from masteries to reach the cap at 18) Like most tank junglers, he is very vulnerable to early invades, but will outscale most fighter junglers mid to late game. When ult is up he can 1v1 most champions as long as you walk around collecting blobs. Similarly to gragas, his job in teamfights is to scatter the enemy team with his e and ult so he fits assassin comps well. Zac's best powerspike comes at lv 11. With a full rotation of spells he is capable of killing a squishy target by himself, even without a single ap item
: Small QOL update for Lux
I don't think this will solve the problem that lux has now. Her main issue is her absurd mana costs. I mean 130 mana on E? that's a bit too much considering that it is her most reliable spell for waveclear and it doesnt even deal that much damage when compared to other poke mages' abilities. Overall I think lux is outclassed in the poke mage role by everyone else (Xerath,Ziggs,Vel'koz) since she has lower damage, stats and scaling than all of them. She could certaintly use some buffs to bring her up to date such as lower cd on basic abilities (especially her e which is on a 10 sec cd on all ranks), lower mana costs and better ratios. The only QOL change lux really needs is a new laugh sound, that sh*t is killing my ears everytime I hear it
Domite (EUW)
: The amount of burst they have is not balanced for how safe they are due to mobility though. Being able to jump in and burst a squishy and get out should not be something they is balanced. Champions completely dominating because you don't have lissandra and friends to lock them down should not be a thing.
That is the whole theme of assassins however. Go in, kill a squishy, get out. That's what 90% of assassins can do, but it also involves a lot of risk since they have to get into melee range and can be locked down and killed easily if the enemy team is coordinated enough. Assassins are actually not as good currently since tanks are more common and can easily stunlock them if they go in at the wrong time.
: I have been doing Great with {{champion:82}} He has poke, he has a shield passive and most of the time i end up bullying out opponents. My farm always ends positive and your good tanking 1 v 4 in teamfights. But he has little to no escape because he has no CC, So you need either {{item:3146}} ( gives you extra lifesteal and spellvamp and has CD reduction, good for chasing opponents) {{item:3116}} ( most prefer this one cause it Gives you a Slow on all your skills) but yeah man mordekaiser works in this meta, Does tonnes of damage and has sustain
I know that morde is still decent in this meta, but his flaws (lack of mobility and cc) is pretty bad since he is extremely easy to kite and since dfg is gone he cant get oneshot the adc and win the fight by himself. Overall I think he is pretty straightforward and depends completely on matchup. The enemy either has the means to break the shield and straight up outrade you or doesn't and will get bullied for the entire laning phase.
: Riven is AD, even if she doesn't cast spells, she will do damage. Funny how you mention silence. How do you think a silenced Vlad can perform? "very well indeed". Riven has high mobility which gives her outplay potential and ability to avoid skill shots (like morgana Q, tresh Q, blitz, Q, yasou Q, Leblank W, Ashe ult, etc). Vlad does this as well by using his trollpool but, the difference is that vlad loses a bunch of HP when doing it and his single defensive move, while riven still has at least half of her dashes up. Again, a silenced vlad does no damage since he is a caster. A rooted vlad does no damage since you can just kite him unless your name is Vayne or Urgot. And a snared Riven does 0 damage unless you are in melee range (even more useless than vlad in this case) A slowed vlad does no damage as he won't get in fights because he moves to slow. While a slow Riven can do stuff. While other CC are the save. Also, the life steal on riven is stronger than spell vamp on vlad, especially if you build 2 life steal items. Riven also provides 2 forms of CC for her team, a AoE Knock-up and an AoE stun. While vlad only has AoE slow. Vlad still takes damage from some champions in his troll pool (Fiddle W, Malzahar E), so he ain't god mode in that either What other CC forms are left? Knock-ups affect both of them the same way. And again, due to mobility issues, its easier for a Riven to be "out of the fight" and "avoid most CC" then just cap close with a Q over the wall. While Vlad must always be up there in the fight. My point: Riven has CC, Vlad only has a slow Riven and Vlad are both hurt by CC, but Vlad gets hurt more.
You have to consider however how much presence each has to show in a teamfight. Riven has to be in melee range all the time to deal her full damage, while vlad's most important role in a teamfight is using his ult off to as many enemies as possible, which will eventually deal about 50% of hp damage by itself. Even if he is taken out or disengaged after that, his team will already have a huge damage amp to follow up on (assuming they are not a bunch of idiots)
jana (EUW)
: {{champion:120}} is one of the strongest currently. you can add him to your list.
Hecarim is strong right now thanks to his high mobility (doesn't even need flash) good early to mid game. But once he finishes triforce his damage tends to fall off and becomes a tanky disruptor later on. Vlad and RIven dont need to build pute tank items to have good survivabilty and deal much higher damage
Xrozz (EUW)
: Magus Change - Fiddle Useless?
Fiddle almost never needed to build a jungle item anyway, since morello's gives the same stats as magus but also gives regen + heal reduction. He can drain his way into the jungle without any real sustain issue an smite is there only to secure objective and getting the monster buffs. As for smite upgrades fiddle doesn't make any real use of them either.
: Why does Riven's shield scale with AD?
The ad ratio is ok imo on an ad caster like riven, but it seems a bit too high (100% bonus ad). At the same time however, it is a dash ability so it cant be used while cced and has the lowest duration of any active shield (1.5 sec) meaning that once it is used riven has no other protection from burst
: troll pool has a huge cooldown, and hard CC (like a 2 sec stun, etc) can be lethal for any champions, including vlad.
What I am trying to point out is that most hard cc practically silence riven and preventing her from shielding/avoiding incoming burst, while vlad has innate tankiness to survive damage while cced. Also his pool cd can get as low as 8.4 sec with max cdr (6.4 once it ends) and he is able to avoid any projectiles with it not just skillshots like riven.
: Hypermobility will make the game boring, not better
Overall mobility/skillshot ratio is allright currently imo, since most champions that have high mobility simply rely on it to be viable and fulfill their role (e.g assassins/fighters) and those that lack it make up for it with high amounts of cc (tanks/supports) or damage (mages). This is not global rule tho since riven and mordekaiser are still a thing
: There is one HUGE difference between Vlad and Riven. And that is Mobility. Mobility is the reason why its harder to carry with a Vlad than with Riven. You usually want a Sivir or a lot of CC in your team when you play Vlad so that you can stay in fights and do damage (you do have huge dmg with Vlad, but you need to stay in the fight)
Riven's mobility can also be a double edged sword though. Since she relies so much on dashing around to deal her damage and survive, any hard cc will be lethal since she is pretty squishy overall, while vlad can soak up much more damage and continually bait the enemies burst thanks to his trollpool.
: BOTRK Shen.
Imo {{item:3091}} > {{item:3153}} on Shen in most cases
: {{champion:39}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:120}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:14}}
All of these top laners are decent in their own right, but tend to fall off in terms of damage later on since they are more prone to kiting and/or fill tank roles
xIntenso (EUW)
: SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Don't tell people about Vladimir. I just started playing that OP Hemomancer (he is NOT a vampire) and i'd like for him to stay OP :D If more people start playing him, nerfs are sure to be incoming.
Well vlad is not much of a secret pick anymore, he is more or less flavor with all the tanks around since he can outheal their damage and laugh at their face
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Khaery (EUW)
: Morde mid or top?
Having played quite a few games with mord in both lanes, top is way better for him. Most mid matchups can beat mord easiily because of range/burst advantage. While top is a long lane and morde pushes lane by default, camping top will benefit your teammates a lot early to mid game because mid is free to push/roam and dragon can be taken uncontested. Also, he is a very strong lane bully against the majority of top laners and does not need to build tanky in order to have strong survivability in teamfights thanks to his passive. This means that unlike most top lane bruisers, his late game damage remains relevant.

Yianis

Level 30 (EUW)
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