: actually Yasuo has one of the highest banrates. and that makes him barely played. Some people fear he will feed on their team, and in lower elo they fear yasuo as being OP for good reasons, they dont kite or CC or gank him.
I say he's basically the modern day Akali, people will complain to no end about them being broken OP etc, but honestly they are okay to sub par, if you play around him.
: >He's barely played because they nerfed him to death. You do realize there are champions with 3% play rate right? You also realize there are 100+ champions in total right? You also realize that there are like 5 positions available right? So, 100x5 = 500 now lets divide that by the amount of champions and you get with around 3-5% play rate per champion = average. So, ok, some might be better, some might be worse with 10% or 1%. But everything above 5% that IS POPULAR. THE POLAR OPPOSITE OF BARELY PLAYED
He's on 7% so that only 2% more than your average, so it above average it not exactly Lucian 45%
: Ok... it's official... Yasuo needs a rework... and not because he is OP!!!
He's barely played because they nerfed him to death. Look at the stats he is currently sat at 37 on the popularity list at 7% http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.playPercent&order=descend&roleSort= Even if you combined his Mid and Top Play ratios together (14%) he would be 14 on the list behind: Nami, Vayne, Graves, Karma, Orianna, Janna, Lulu, Ahri, Caitlyn, Ezreal, Thresh, Lee Sin, Lucian
: The fact that it is tank meta - and teams have alot of controls in their hero kits', makes Yasuo very vulnerable. As a melee carry he is very susceptible to CC like stuns, just like Yi or Trynda.
I said for all of 2015 and 2016 thats alot of meta's and 2 years not to see a single cheese comp. And look you pointed out his counter play, just like Yi, CC him and he's dead.
: > [{quoted}](name=boss10000,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=PkjAFqsl,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-12-28T17:34:24.806+0000) > > Except his abilities don't do any damage because of it. > > His Q becomes worse than an AA after 333 AD. > > His W is utility > > His E is a dash with some damage, who ever died because of his dash damage? > > R weakish damage but gives armour pen > > So really all his damage is AA or AA Except he can abuse E-AA-Q-AA for a extremely quick trade that hurts like hell with just a little crit chance. And after 6 that combo followed by a knockup and another rotation will kill someone without them being able to trade back as long as he just plant his windwall ontop of himself.
Erm thats most melee trade patterns. Riven, Irelia, Renekton And with them your stunned or CC'd with Yasuo's WindWall atleast you can see it and avoid it. Plus his WW is so easy to outplay after it blocks that one spell/ability. Disengage or run away if he follows you he doesn't have WW now, or he lets you run away.
Shacownz (EUW)
: Champions are picked at worlds and competitive game for very different reasons you pick them when at soloq. Yasuo is too strong as it stands right now, have to admit it like it or not the fact is there. He needs nerf everywhere, his E gives too much mobility that leads into abuse, his Q does too much damage and his AA's are too strong.
Except there is no reason for him not to be played, if he was so strong then he would be picked. You could easily see a Yasuo pro comp but we don't. And MF support was picked as a counter to Zyra and comboing. Yet we don't see Yasuo ever as a single counter or pick, there is a reason. You can't deny that you expect atleast one Yasuo comp as a suprise or cheeese or a Yasuo couter pick? Gnar was picked 24/7 and we didn't see Yasuo once even though he is a super counter, because he is so weak that it wasn't worth picking him because he's actually weak. Just look at Yasuos pro history for season 5 and 6 all he seems to do is lose, he's actually weak its just people not being good enough to play against him or bother learning how to play vs him.
: champion without cooldowns can't really be balanced. yasuo - URF champion.
Except his abilities don't do any damage because of it. His Q becomes worse than an AA after 333 AD. His W is utility His E is a dash with some damage, who ever died because of his dash damage? R weakish damage but gives armour pen So really all his damage is AA or AA
Azzep120 (EUW)
: Yasuo
> [{quoted}](name=Azzep120,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=PkjAFqsl,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-12-28T15:02:39.560+0000) > > So will {{champion:157}} will get nerfed any time soon? He is just a beast, really strong, it takes so many resourses to deal with this dude. What if your team isn`t that cordinated and doesn`t know how to deal with him? I think he needs a nerf, he does way too much damage, he is strong in all parts of the game, has crazy carry potential, even if behind he gets 2 critical strike items and its over. Please riot, please nerf him! Yet 0 games at worlds and barely any pro games at all in 2016, its almost like he not actually that good and its low elo people being bad vs him.
: Just out of interest how long have you been playing League? In your opinion what is the difference between the current autofill system and the old last pick gets landed with support way of things? Additionally what are the benefits of the 1st pick chooses their role and last pick takes whatever is left Vs autofill? Before I joined Riot I learned quickly that support is the 2nd role that everyone needed to learn as it's the one most people don't want to play and have not mastered meaning that if you had a good support on your team you had a better chance of winning bot lane because the other person wasn't up to par or picks a random mid laner and calls it support. If someone is just not willing to learn a role that they know that they have a high probability of playing every once and a while that's their decision. In normals I understand but in ranked well it just seems like logical sense that you would want to be proficient I do find at times that Autofill bugs me so don't think just because I have a red name that I think its all sunshine and rainbows but does autofill not encourage players to have a more rounded champion pool? I mean since the introduction of autofill I've gone from being able to play 3 roles to all 5 and am more open to trading position with others as I now have champs and a proficiency in each role?
> [{quoted}](name=Riot Cosantoir,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=ur2VHWtR,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-12-23T13:54:57.698+0000) > > Just out of interest how long have you been playing League? > > In your opinion what is the difference between the current autofill system and the old last pick gets landed with support way of things? > Additionally what are the benefits of the 1st pick chooses their role and last pick takes whatever is left Vs autofill? > > Before I joined Riot I learned quickly that support is the 2nd role that everyone needed to learn as it's the one most people don't want to play and have not mastered meaning that if you had a good support on your team you had a better chance of winning bot lane because the other person wasn't up to par or picks a random mid laner and calls it support. If someone is just not willing to learn a role that they know that they have a high probability of playing every once and a while that's their decision. In normals I understand but in ranked well it just seems like logical sense that you would want to be proficient > > I do find at times that Autofill bugs me so don't think just because I have a red name that I think its all sunshine and rainbows but does autofill not encourage players to have a more rounded champion pool? > I mean since the introduction of autofill I've gone from being able to play 3 roles to all 5 and am more open to trading position with others as I now have champs and a proficiency in each role? I have played since Lucian release so have seen every single type of queue under the sun. So first let me address each queue. --- 1)Blind Pick Good old quick and fast, this was always the i want a game as fast as possible. It often came down to calling your lane, this often meant the people with the better PC and Internet got to call first and who often has the better equipment? The hardcore player so they often could call far faster than the casual player. --- 2) Old Draft Pick So the old dog, this back in the day use to be organised by MMR so the worst player got last pick, however you would often get support mains or the "pre-made bot" or atleast could attempt to negotiate. --- 3) Teambuilder Theoretically the best case of queue time was no issue, you pick the champions and the comps. So don't like the singed support? Kick him Bard top? Kick However queue times could get really bad. --- 4) New Champ Select In theory brilliant i queue for the roles i am best at and everyone that i get put with knows and plays there role. Except again queue times, now these were at a point were they were long but for some it was not stupidly bad, so was barable. --- Now the problem with autofill, simply put there is no choice, im on playing my one and only game of the night, do I really want to play support? No. 1) In theory you only get autofilled so often but that only works for people that plan to play a ton of games in a day or such, not one game. 2) I get my role (Top) then someone dodges, then i auto get matched and im put as fill, this is just awful, i was just top so why did you move me instead of autofilling a new guy? 3) Autogilled even when playing less popular roles already, as stated above i play Top which is the 2nd least played role, assuming it goes, Mid>Jungle>ADC>Top>Support So im already picking an unpopular role why do i get auuofilled? 4)Option to pick, some of us would rather wait and not get autofilled so why not experiment with that, have a tick box that disables autofill and warns that queue times can get extreme, but give us the choice. 5)Due to queue get in to champion select, get half way through then someone dodges, then you get queued again etc. So often instead of being sat in queue waiting for a support you go through 2-3 champion selects in between. --- Honestly if you want to make everyone happy the best way would be to make autofill optional, but then list all the roles and put what is needed (like TB use to have), then reward players that go into those roles. E.g supports are currently needed if you queue support you will get extra IP/LP, that way you reward people for playing the role and get more people wanting to play it rather than punish. Rember positive vs negative reforcement forcing people support feels like a punishment, while if you reward them they will not be annoyed or angry at it. --- I get you guys got alot of complaints about queue times mainly from high elo, but honeslty if they want short queues do a timed feature. "You have been queuing for 5 minutes, would you be willing to be autofilled to speed up the queue time?" That way the ball is in there court if they want a game faster not yours, you tried to get them there role but are unable so if they want a game they will can either autofill or wait.
LEΟN (EUNE)
: ok thats fair enough
Thx Also for the others. 1)its only 3.75 secs its not exactly long, but depends on perception. 2)its a reaction thing, its meant to be skill to time it righ like Fiora W. Plus if you did remove this it would only be usable as a zoning tool and if you want to reduce the duration what would it do then? A 1 sec zone tool sounds usless. 3)again what purpose would it serve if they did all the above? It would be near useless.
LEΟN (EUNE)
: How to balance: 1. Reduse windwall duration 2. Increase cast time of windwall so it will not block spells the last 0.1 sec before they hit Yasuo. 3. Fix windwall's hitbox in a way that it will only protect from the front side and not from everywhere no matter the angle the windwall casted 4. Put some cooldown or some limited stacks on E dash. ~~5. Give him some realistic Crit chance. Having 100% Crit with 2 items is just stupid...~~
For number 5) why does ever always ignore the damage reduction. Seriously he gets massivly deminished returns. 10% and 25% this means that at 333 AD his Q is WORSE than an AA
: Yasuo rework and balance
Can we please get off the Yasuo circlejerk? At this rate he will become Akali 2.0, a champion that takes abit of brain usage to play against who get moaned about to death, even though they are crap in pro play. Remember when Riot removed Akali's E proc Q and this destroyed her to this day? Yeah thats whats going to happen. Please explain why a champion that is "super broken" gets fk all pro play? Azir, Kallista, etc were constant pick/ban in pro play even when sub par, meanwhile Yasuo who is meant to be broken see fk all play i wonder why this? (Maybe because hes not broken)
Práedyth (EUW)
: well i can agree to some extend. imo at his full potential yasuo simply is incredibly broken. ofcourse you can argue that investing much time into a champion should be rewarded but yasuo is just getting rediculous. on the other hand the winrate should be balanced out by the fact that those champions actually require this time spent on them because otherwise theyll have a negative winrate. but this simply isnt the case. go to league of graphs or champion.gg and you can see that his winrate at 0 games played already starts at 50% and after only 10 games its already up to 57% going even further up to 68% after 50 games+. last game i just experienced the same. played against an absolute trash yasuo who i wouldve completely stomped sadly whenever i was about to do so i got ganked by someone and yas just barely survived. that happened several times. and he was still bad as hell. but when he was 6/6 he could towerdive a full hp riven and karma alone and get out alive too. imo its just going a bit too far with this champ
Where are you getting these stats? There so massivly wrong for top Yasuo it's: http://champion.gg/champion/Yasuo/Top 1-5 46.09% 5-15 47.7% 15-50 48.57% 50-125 52.72% 125+ 54.6% This is actually worse than alot of simpler champions, such as Darius. http://champion.gg/champion/Darius/Top Who at 50-125 and 125+ has a far higher win ratio than Yasuo so yeah. Also the ganked point, thats top lane and happens for all champions.
: Some thoughts about Yasuo
The thing i always say. If Yasuo is so broken OP or dumb and overpowered, then why does he see barely any pro play? You would think "the best players in the world" would be able to abuse the OP champion right? Or maybe they actually learn how to play against him and you know? Got good? I don't see Bjersen, Faker, Jensen, Etc, etc say anything about him? Can someone honestly get pros to give there thoughts on Yasuo to see what they actually think of him?
: Singed and Rylai's Crystal Scepte
Lets be honest singed is just to unique and completely different to really have a fitting place in the game and will need a rework at some point like Urgot and Warwick. Untill then Riot will probably leave him subpar.
: Yasuo mains will say no Normal humans will say yes But im not a normal human, im a Rammus main :)
And pro's and koreans say no, so ill take them over avergae people
: Oh yeah make Fiora's damage EVEN FASTER GENIUS, WE NEED THIS. No. We. Don't. Fiora is a pile of utter horseshit to play against, giving her EVEN LESS counterplay would be horrible (as the sooner you die, the less you can do against her).
Not really, she sits at a okish win ratio 49.6% http://champion.gg/champion/Fiora/Top and the people with lots of games on her 125+ don't really improve that much 51.5%
yoniame (EUNE)
: i think the ops issue is that he coulod proc the default vital during stun, which would resets when fiora ulties, but with delay he can only hit 1 on the side
This what it should be is i stun > Ult > AA (1 proc), > Q (2 proc) allowing me to proc an extra vital in that time.
Rioter Comments
: No where does it say that... also 3rd party developers don't have access to that data as they only have data from the match history so thus can't determine mains. So this isn't mains... this is the raw player base of plat and above... And as thus is subject to what I said above.
Its the average games played which is 100 for yasuo, and i agree it can be affected by bad players, but so much to the point where it makes him one of the worst in deaths? i dont think so. Also if you look at pro builds http://www.probuilds.net/champions/details/Yasuo 95% of the games have a negative KDA and these are LCS level players here.
: You realise those stats aren't because of his lack of magic resist... contrary to popular belief yasuo is a difficult champion to play correctly, that's why on average he has more deaths than kills,... because the people who don't know how to play him drag the statistic down considerably. So he needs no buffs, if you changed the search parameters to only include yasuo mains you would find the opposite because they are the ones who are using him correctly.
Rioter Comments
Yo im Mario (EUNE)
: There was some Rioters post about this while ago, pretty much Riot is afraid of the spam and QQ on boards if they nerf him. Also for every "why nerf only 48% win ratio" guys: LB was nerfed when she had like 46% win ratio Katarina had under 50% win ratio and was destroyed. Nidalee sits at 46% win ratio and isn't buffed (which she should be or at least bugs fixed). Win ratio =!= strength (at least not all the time).
Great balance philosophy don't nerf something because its popular, really prioritising game play and balance over Lee SIn fans
: {{champion:105}} Q doesn't need buffs... the ability is just fine right now. Fizz with {{item:3100}} full build W+Q on a squishy ADC will deal ~50% of their health. Maybe you should play more {{champion:105}} and understand the champion before asking for a buff. Have a nice day {{summoner:13}}
A champion shouldn't depend on 1 item and yeah you do 50% of the HP with LB but it seems to stay like that all game never really seems to get any stronger, no matter how much AP you build.
: That's not all... W applies almost (if not all) spell and on-hit effects. Now that's a brutal combo... with right items of course... Gotta survive that pitiful early mana stat somehow...
I honesty find him far better early game than he is late, for a champion that is meant to ramp up into a late game monster, he seems to be far better early at late.
: Indeed, the powerspike on that ability is when you get a {{item:3100}}
An ability shouldn't be balanced around 1 item.
ChiTenshi (EUW)
: With a 51% Win-Rate Mid, I think he's fine.
Win Ratio doesn't mean everything, and as i have said he is good early to mid, with how games are going so short now a days it doesn't show up as much as it should but when games start to go long again it will probably drop. If you want proof look at his graph, he drops of bloody hard in all division above gold, once the game goes late http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/fizz Every division Gold, Plat, Diamond drop off really fking hard
Rioter Comments
Pizzazz (EUW)
: I think he's annoying **because** he's so predictable. Few champions have an actual answer to all his mobility and early damage, other than avoiding the fuck out of him. It's just knowing that I mostly can't fight him during the first 15 minutes of the game. And if I can, he'll probably get away anyway.
It exactly that, when going against him it becomes one of these 1) 60% of the time he kills you 2) 30% of the time he gets away with his mobility 3) 10% of the time you kill him Its so annoying and there very rarely is any variation.
: What happened to Sivir btw?
Was a great team focused ADC so her ult allowed her team to engage and then her to do some damage, but meta changed to more ADC damage focused where she is not as good, but overall shes a good pick and will have a resurges at some point, Just not here meta at this point.
D4RKEVA (EUW)
: Vayne sucked balls season 4 but she is FUN to play same with riven lee and zed... Pick rate =/= brokeness they have fun mechaniks and are played often, nobody plays maokai that often because he is simple and boring yet as strong as a lee in other aspects.
I said if they need to be nerfed to finally get people to play other stuff then that would be good, they have been played constantly for years and it would be nice to see other champions have a shine, even urgot got played abit last year but for what 2, 3 weeks? How nice would it be to go into a game and you could actually have any marksmen be the adc, or jungle. Cause ATM you can say I get X that this game will have a Lee Sin, Vayne Or Thresh and 9/10 times you would be right. And other champions have been nerfed cause they were popular even though they weren't that strong ( Cough* Yasuo * cough)so why should Lee Sin and Vyane be not touched?
Shiroe x (EUW)
: There always ways to counter champions. If they are picked that much, then you should be able to counter them by now. Sorry i don't have any idea how to counter them, as i suck at league. My games are always blitz and zeds. I hate them both. I do get what you mean. But i try not let it bother me too much.
Never said i lose to them,, said i am sick of seeing them every game. Its as you say you play vs them so much that you know how to vs them, but its gets boring as hell when its the same crap, over and ovr and over and over again, the only difference is will it be a good vayne, lee sin or a bad vayne lee sin i would love to see Wukong, Xin, Yorick, Urgot, etc, there only so much fun you can vs the same two champions every game.
Shiroe x (EUW)
: Why does it matter what other people are playing anyway? People will play who they want. Deal with it.
Cause when 2 champions cover 65% of games then there is something wrong with the balance, the whole point of the game is strength and weakness and these two clearly are not doing that if there picked every dam game. The whole point of a pick ban is to build a team not to just go pick Lee he works no matter what you do with him or pick Vayne and one shot everyone and not really suffer, its not fun having to see 2 champions 2/3 of the time and is an indication of really bad balance. Imagine if you went into a game and every game it was vs the same team comp, every game that would make the game pretty crappy and boring to play wouldn't it? if every time you played you were always vs the same 5 champions on the other team, That's what the problem is. Were even at that point at the minuet where it is not unusual to see Lee Sin, Vayne and Thresh all the time, those will statistically be in 85-90% of the games, if you were to bet that one of those 3 would be picked you would almost always be right, that's stupid and an indication of bad balance.
: There are always popular picks every meta. If not Lee and Vayne, then it would be 2 or 3 others who take their place every game. Play Draft and ban them out if they're a problem for you.
Yeah every meta, the problem is theses guys are never not popular, look at the popularity now, i bet that the ones that are currently there, they will fall out and disappear before we ever see Vayne or Lee SIn, dip. Look at the charts for there popularity: Vayne http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/vayne/all Lee SIn http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/leesin/all Now lets look at other champions that were top picks for ages and how they have fallen or grown Maokai http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/maokai/all Janna http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/janna/all Annie http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/annie/all Lucian http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/lucian/all You can see all these other champions have had rise and falls with polarity but Vayne and Lee Sin always stay constant, you know why cause there never bad, there is never a point where lee sin is a bad choice, I will fit into almost every single team comp you can imagine. there is no bad team for Lee Sin, its stupid they need actual flaws that are more exploitable and need to not be always top tier picks with no real downsides associated with them.
Rioter Comments
Savage Devi (EUNE)
: Not only is just a straight up lifesteal bonus a very boring, mechanically lacking passive, but it's also poor design for Nasus. A champion who you're supposed to bully out of lane so he can't stack, is given one of the best sustain abilities in the entire game, with a kit that supports building full tank. Nasus is a champion who's supposed to have distinct weaknesses yet he's built to nullify them. And what happens as a result is that you don't fight Nasus with skill, you fight him by having the correct champion. And that's simply crap.
Exactly this, its giving Vayne a passive that gives her a free early game, the whole point is to overcome the crap early to make it to he god late game via play, not being having 20% life steal at level 1 so any damage done can be instantly healed, and even late game its stupid where he can have 35%-40% life steal from some runes masteries etc and spirit visage. That's just stupid when a champion can passively get the same life steal that would require anyone else 2.5 full items to have (BT, Hydra, Vamp 42%) is what it would taken anyone else to be near that, but there not then super tanky at that point aswell.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Lee sin doesn't scale. He is good early game yes, strong in the hands of a good player, but mid/lategame he falls off.
> [{quoted}](name=VD Neal,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=cWZfQdIx,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-12-30T22:50:11.800+0000) > > Lee sin doesn't scale. > He is good early game yes, strong in the hands of a good player, but mid/lategame he falls off. 80% sclaing on everything would beg to differ
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Snowfox (EUW)
: UK PRICE IS SAME AS USUAL: Taken 30 seconds ago: http://prntscr.com/81owto You're checking a different payment method most likely.
I went back and checked and was streaming so people in my stream saw it aswell, it was lower than usual
Rioter Comments
zall75 (EUW)
: Why did you quote the entire comment it's right there lol. For shaco Q (you mean passive ?) you said yourself it's a crit so it's not a on-hit special effect. Also the dodges do block all AAs (never ever seen a case where the aa's initial damage wasn't blocked), but the on-hit effects can naturally be meddled with, if it ignored them then it would be too strong and similar tweaks would be made. As you said it's not glitching, it is intentional for some effects to hit and others to not hit/be ignored, there's nothing problematic about it as it was a conscious decision. There's not "wall of invulnerability" written on that ability, just "ignores aas" and you can't say it doesn't, whatever the case the aa damage is indeed ignored, on-hits are just another thing, the matter of how they interact with the dodge is not even game breaking or complicated.
Its the fact its so super inconsistent that makes it stupid as point out alot in this thread there is no link form one on hit to the next some Magic, some Physical, some 50/50 it's just not clear going from one champion to the next what is going to happen. Example Gragas W is Magic Damage but is blocked by dodge. Nasus Q is Magic Damage but goes through. Etc, etc, etc. There is no clear connection from what is dodges and what isn't.
: I'm sorry but you are asking to change about half of the champions in this game to make it easier to understand 5 of them (the ones that can block basic attacks). The reason they are treated differently is because if they all acted the same the game would lose too much diversity. If they where treated the same there would be very little difference between these abilities besides which damage type they deal and what extra effect they proc which would stagnate the game and would prevent riot from making weird and wonderful abilities in the future (there would be no more champs that can have singular attacks that change their normal basic attack pattern like gangplank as you are suggesting turning it into a normal spell which would be no different to many other champs). Besides there is literally 5 champs that this would affect ({{champion:17}} {{champion:133}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:80}} and {{champion:114}} ) so there is really no reason for riot to completely change a lot of coding to facilitate them (and it only takes one try to find out what works and what doesn't). And after that if it still bugs you if a ability goes through blocks or not then just go the the wiki, the ability section of each ability will tell you what goes through blocks and what doesn't.
Yes you can go on the wiki, but not every player will do that and as i posted above Riot wants clarity: > "The job of clarity is to refine knowledge such that both parties can make intelligent choices. If one player makes a fatal error (either due to a lack of knowledge or mechanical skill), they should lose due to their opponent's superior skill, not the inconsistency of a game rule (that all particles accurately represent their hitboxes)." It should be a main goal of Riot to fix all the bad coding of the champions and if it doesn't work the way it should do, its not just the champions you listed either as I said what about abilities after flash, that should be corrected by now, when did they start that. Start of 2013 if im not mistaken? that's 2 years to do that change to all the champions form before then. If they don't fix it now then it will only get worse and worse, and would prevent Riot from being able to implement a similar ability in the future or someone else who uses dodge, parrie etc.
zall75 (EUW)
: I think that's not so big a matter for the players, mostly a matter for the dodging players which are concerned by every single case, but making these a bit complicated is better than wrecking the balance for too many champions. For the champions who use on hit effects, it's only a matter of knowing the champ and it makes things much simpler. This is definitely a matter i've never seen anybody seriously worry about nor do i think they should. > [{quoted}](name=boss10000,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=LWegfENE,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-04-07T18:50:28.215+0000) > > Why should I be able to dodge a Gragas W but not a Nasus Q. > Why can I dodge a Fiora or WW Ult but not a Garen Silence. > Why can I dodge a Ezreal Q which is the most none AA ability possible. i think in the stuations you showed there i think : - Gragas W and Fiora R are not the most important abilities in their kits (just like Kass W, he's still left with... all his important abilities like E aoe nuke, R blink) . Nasus Q is much more important (it's all his damage) and mean to be used more frequently so vs Jax it would be ridiculous. To me WW's suppressis a matterof its own, wait for his rework (might become a stun which applies tenacity). - Garen Silence (and dmg actually) does apply because it's cc (his only built in cc !) and looking at the vid not only does it work with every cc effect but it seems dot effects are considered the same way. As for the dmg (additional) idk, seems relevant so far (doesn't one shot anybody ). - Ezreal Qs (and gankplank Qs) are meant to apply all the on-hit effects even the negative ones like Randuin's or Thornmail, they're just long range AAs. Imo it's just useless to worry about this kind of things which will never truly make a game harder for anybody. Also you make it look like there's no order in this while the vid you show makes it easy to prove you wrong, many abilities with shared caracteristics work the same way.
> [{quoted}](name=zall75,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=LWegfENE,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-04-07T19:56:30.693+0000) > > I think that's not so big a matter for the players, mostly a matter for the dodging players which are concerned by every single case, but making these a bit complicated is better than wrecking the balance for too many champions. For the champions who use on hit effects, it's only a matter of knowing the champ and it makes things much simpler. This is definitely a matter i've never seen anybody seriously worry about nor do i think they should. > > i think in the stuations you showed there i think : > > - Gragas W and Fiora R are not the most important abilities in their kits (just like Kass W, he's still left with... all his important abilities like E aoe nuke, R blink) . Nasus Q is much more important (it's all his damage) and mean to be used more frequently so vs Jax it would be ridiculous. To me WW's suppressis a matterof its own, wait for his rework (might become a stun which applies tenacity). > > - Garen Silence (and dmg actually) does apply because it's cc (his only built in cc !) and looking at the vid not only does it work with every cc effect but it seems dot effects are considered the same way. As for the dmg (additional) idk, seems relevant so far (doesn't one shot anybody ). > > - Ezreal Qs (and gankplank Qs) are meant to apply all the on-hit effects even the negative ones like Randuin's or Thornmail, they're just long range AAs. > > Imo it's just useless to worry about this kind of things which will never truly make a game harder for anybody. Also you make it look like there's no order in this while the vid you show makes it easy to prove you wrong, many abilities with shared caracteristics work the same way. There are some that just don't make any sense look at Shaco Q which is meant to be just a crit, nothing special, just a crit but that goes through etc. It needs to be changed to just block all AA based attacks or set to a consistent standard to make the ability more usable and more friendly to the player base. It shouldn't matter weather its the champion main damage source or a lesser ability if Jax's E is meant to dodge AA it should block ALL AA's, now you could argue that the proc should then be saved till an AA that hits and I would agree with you on that.
: Actually your examples are consistent. Dodges, blocks and blinds for the most part block the auto attack part but none of the extra effects so fiora and ww ults are stoped because the damage from both of them are classed as basic attacks (which is why they proc on hit effects like hydra passive) while garen Q is considered on hit effect which means that the normal basic portion of the damage does miss but the bonuses from the spell (additional damage and silence) will go through. Ez Q is in fact classed as a glorified basic attack (which is why it can proc on hit effects like sheen) so it makes sense that it can be dodged (and it is still consistent with other abilities of its class like gankplank Q which works the same way but is classed as a melee attack). Gragus W works in a similar way to ww ult because it is entirely a basic attack but the damage is just converted into magic damage (and I would guess that it would be the same with other such abilities like Viktor Q) and nasus Q works the same as garen Q which I just explained. So they are closer to consistency than you think it's just that the class of 'on next basic attack' is actually broken down into different types; ones that override the next basic attack e.g. gragus, on hit attacks e.g. nasus and 'looks like an ability but is actually a basic attack in disguise' e.g. ez (there may be other types but those are the ones I can remember off the top of my head).
> [{quoted}](name=swampert919,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=LWegfENE,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-04-07T20:21:00.552+0000) > > Actually your examples are consistent. > Dodges, blocks and blinds for the most part block the auto attack part but none of the extra effects so fiora and ww ults are stoped because the damage from both of them are classed as basic attacks (which is why they proc on hit effects like hydra passive) while garen Q is considered on hit effect which means that the normal basic portion of the damage does miss but the bonuses from the spell (additional damage and silence) will go through. > Ez Q is in fact classed as a glorified basic attack (which is why it can proc on hit effects like sheen) so it makes sense that it can be dodged (and it is still consistent with other abilities of its class like gankplank Q which works the same way but is classed as a melee attack). > Gragus W works in a similar way to ww ult because it is entirely a basic attack but the damage is just converted into magic damage (and I would guess that it would be the same with other such abilities like Viktor Q) and nasus Q works the same as garen Q which I just explained. > So they are closer to consistency than you think it's just that the class of 'on next basic attack' is actually broken down into different types; ones that override the next basic attack e.g. gragus, on hit attacks e.g. nasus and 'looks like an ability but is actually a basic attack in disguise' e.g. ez (there may be other types but those are the ones I can remember off the top of my head). Some cases could maybe be seen differently Garen Q as you said but there are others that just don't make sense. It should be changed to just block all AA's and the associated on hit effect. A player shouldn't have to go from champion to champion wondering if there AA on hit is in fact going to hit, miss, or half, they should pick one way to do it and stick with it for all interactions.
: Some champs work differently because of balance issues and some work differently because riot has changed the standard way of doing this particular thing after the champ's release so their thing is outdated. Riot has been slowly correcting the latter and have no intention of the former for obvious reasons.
> [{quoted}](name=swampert919,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=LWegfENE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-04-07T17:18:21.329+0000) > > Some champs work differently because of balance issues and some work differently because riot has changed the standard way of doing this particular thing after the champ's release so their thing is outdated. Riot has been slowly correcting the latter and have no intention of the former for obvious reasons. Well that's not consistent and it's not really being fixed in an affective manner, as I stated, it only really get adjust if there doing big changes to a champion. It shouldn't be different from champion to champion. Why should I be able to dodge a Gragas W but not a Nasus Q. Why can I dodge a Fiora or WW Ult but not a Garen Silence. Why can I dodge a Ezreal Q which is the most none AA ability possible. It does not make any sense in any form and Riot just needs to fix it so it's consistent for every single champion. It's just a matter of fairness and good consistently and balance from champion to champion, consistency is one of the most important aspects to any sort of balance.
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boss10000

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