Edeliite (EUW)
: Edeliite Stream
Eyyy fam! I'll be derping on there too! Come say hi! ^_^ #shields4lyfe
Paradoxs (EUW)
: sorry for presuming i usually actually put guy/gal bah my bad.
Haha it's totally ok, no worries :D
Paradoxs (EUW)
: no voice comms is fine, just mentioned it so you knew the option was there if you wanted it, ill just be pinging like a nutcase, my friend usually supports (or tries lol) so i'll get him to go jungle or mid :) look forward to seeing you in game man :)
Not a man, but sure, I'll add you :D
Paradoxs (EUW)
: duo with me. was gold last season, haven't done my soloq placements yet as I'm waiting for the ranked ladder to settle down and am playing with a friend in flex currently, if you want some rage-free games and general-fun while climbing (in flexQ) hit me up, id be happy to point out what i think you should of done etc, I'm not as ass about it at all, me and my friend constantly criticise each other consturctivley with no rage or flame. if not thats cool but the offer is there bro. (we use razor comms btw for communication) p.s. i main ADC really but carried myself to gold with Kindered in the jungle last season, now the AD's in the jungle aren't as proficient I'm back to ADC until my jungle is up to scratch.
I may just take you up on that offer. I've done Flex, so may be interesting. Who knows, I may even be able to get out of Bronze in that one :D I don't however, use any voice coms. Because technology.
: 10 ranked games lost in a row
Welcome to my world. Haven't won a single ranked game in a week. And that's way more than 10. :D
: LOL why not ?!
Do you really want to be guarded by below-mediocre bronze 5 support? :D
: hahahaha why not for u too xD ..
I'm faaar from being anybody's senpai :D but thanks
Hansiman (EUNE)
: > Yet I can only place 3 wards at a time. Yes, or as GunsIinger pointed out: 4 wards. Warding is a team job, that's absolutely correct. The higher up you get on the ladder, the more you'll see everyone wards. But just because other people aren't warding, it doesn't mean you shouldn't. At least you're providing proper vision in the areas you can control, which in turn does increase you chance of winning. Remember, the same screen that showed me how you warded also showed me how much your enemies warded. And if you're on a team with 5 people not warding, against a team with 5 people not warding; starting to ward will provide your team with a greater advantage than the enemies that still aren't warding. In your games, I could pretty much have copy-pasted everything I said about warding to every player there, because none of the 10 players you play with tend to ward properly enough. So if you improve on this, then there's something you're suddenly better at than the average Bronze 5 player, which should be your goal here. =) --- > 80% of my deaths are justified though - running between adc and enemy when they are chased, a large part is me trying to heal them in stupid situations. Here's a thing you're starting to do correct: you realize what mistake you're doing that's causing you to die. What you explain here is the same problem I also had when I started out in ranked: I struggled to realize when I can't actually save a team member and it would have been better for me to just run away rather than trying. It's a very common mistake, and that's actually a type of mistake you'll see far up the ladder, not just in bronze. --- > If someone runs 2v5 in a fight (like bronze does), I have the right to not try to save them, right? Because 2 deaths are better than 3. That's correct. With practice, you're able to identify these situations better. But to confuse you a bit, sorry about that; don't be too afraid to help them out either. Sometimes team fights are lost not just because some of your allies engage, but because you and other allies fail to follow up because you were uncertain of the outcome. However, don't think too much about that during the game, but try to think about it after the game is over. It's something you can look at and consider if the situation would have been different if you engaged with them. --- > That's also something I see often - a lvl 12 tries to take on 2 lvl 16s. Why would anyone do that? Short answer: They're Bronze 5. Overestimating the ability their champion has is a very common mistake the lower on the ladder you get. Personally, I've had to train the opposite, because my friends constantly had to point out to me that I was understimating the champions I played. I kept running away from 1v1's that I had a strong upper hand in, simply because I underestimated my champion. Mistakes like that is something you have to be used to, because you're going to see it for a while. But keep in mind that your team isn't the only one making those mistakes; the enemies do them as well. A reason you shouldn't surrender a losing game is also tied together with this: stronger opponents start getting cocky and think your team can't beat them, so they start going around alone thinking they are perfectly safe. If your team starts grouping more up together, you may suddenly find a target on their team and take them down before the rest of their team can respond. Suddenly you may find that while you're behind in the game, you've suddenly got the upper hand to push for an objective. --- > I know the other team makes the same mistakes, but at the end of the day they regroup and gank mid like a team and win every single time. Read through this a bit more and see if you can see the issue here. Why were your enemies able to regroup and push towards a victory? Those 5 players on their team are still exactly the same as the 4 players on your team. In your next game, you may find yourself queued up with 4 people from that team, and still lose; weren't they better players in the game you just previously lost towards them? The ability to adapt to situations is very important. Everything isn't served on a silver platter, nor will everything go according to plan. You can't have one strategy and think that this plan will remain unchanged for the entire game; that isn't adapting. This is also where communication is important. Try to be positive when talking to your team mates, regardless of how they talk to you. Just completely ignore anything negative or mean they have to say, and stay focused since you want to win. You can send short messages saying, "I think we should group up in mid", or "Their jungler and ADC is bot, we can force a fight around baron". People won't always listen, another common problem in Bronze 5; people don't like getting told what to do. So instead of directly telling them what to do, which some players tend to do in a rather unconstructive way; try to suggest things instead. Sometimes your team simply won't listen, or won't care; but you at least tried, and that's more than what the other players were doing. But even if people don't listen in 9/10 games, that 1/10 game is suddenly a boost in your win-rate. --- > I tried to stop it, but 1v5 isn't working when you're a support. And you tried to do the correct thing. It's a shame your team didn't follow up, but you can't win them all. As long as you're doing what is correct, you're going to provide a greater winning chance overall for your games. --- And as other players suggested; you could also try out other champions. I still mean what I say about being able to climb with any champion, but try to expand your champion pool a little bit. Some champions are stronger in some situations. If none in your team, for instance, selects a tank character; perhaps you should have learned to play a tank support like Leona. She's very easy to pick up and learn, and provides both your bot lane, and later teamfights, with a powerful initiation ability, and also strong disengage if the outlook is grim. She's also tanky, so you won't worry too much about getting hit by an ability or two.
It's really a shame not all bronze players want to actually learn and get better. Like, I've looked up what I am supposed to do, where I have to go, what are my duties and when I am allowed to not save someone. I just wish everyone was more keen on learning and not just playing with the mindset "I don't deserve to be in bronze, I'm so good, look at my kda". Like, I played a normal game with a support main as adc - it was as if they understood me and vice versa without words. I never rage, tilt or anything, and almost never swear or blame others during the game. I prefer to stay silent and ping. But if a jungler won't come bot after 15 minutes of me pinging and bot getting ganked by enemy 4 times by then, there is something wrong. I play like a real support - silently saving everyone without asking for too much. If you help support, support helps you, right? Or maybe I just play like the girl I am lol trying to make everybody play nice
Wilkatis LV (EUNE)
: Support is probably the easiest role to leave Bronze. Learn warding and map awareness, don't feed. There isn't much more that you would need. As your champ pool goes - Sona, Janna and Morg? All of them are squishies, Janna generally asks more skill to be played. I personally don't like Sona, she is strong but doesn't feel like she's doing good. Morgana is good as long as you are ahead. I'd suggest go some tanks. Leona, Blitz, Sion, things like that. Much easier.
Fellow Latvian? ^^ Is Lux a viable option for at least some carry?
: Play supp for me senpai :3
That was for Enjutsu not me I assume :D
Enjutsu (EUNE)
: Hmmm, had a look at your match history. For bronze players ussually evryone suggests to just coppy high elo builds, but i don't think it's a good idea for supports. The issue with high elo support builds is that they're stacked with active items and well it looks like your build evry game has the same 2 items: {{item:3190}} and {{item:3222}} the issue with it is well Riot sometime ago revealed that people arent good with actives and you're in bronze 5 so my guess would be that so are you and if you're not using those item actives they're useless. Also {{item:3222}} active isvery high skill and very hard to use, i don't even think that even if you can use it well it's worth using it in low elo. So my first big question: do you actually use those actives? Overall i'd suggest to rush {{item:3504}} as first item, it's easy to use and it's pretty powerfull, after it just stack cdr and AP. Next: i don't like {{item:3117}} on Janna, she's already innatly pretty speedy, also MS has kind of a soft cap and Janna can get to it really easily. It looks like you seem to leave {{item:3301}} for a long time and just rush other items as well as {{item:2049}}. Whatever to rush is kinda situational. To simplify things you should just rush {{item:3096}} into {{item:2049}} into{{item:2302}}. Also it is an option to go the {{item:3303}} route on Janna too. What specifically you do with Janna in lane? And regarding your warding, warding alone isnt enough, the question is can you put those wards to use? im not asking if your teammates can put it to use, but can YOU?, do you have the map awerness for it? Not suggesting to stop warding, but just to focus more on your map awerness. Im kinda hesitant to talk about Sona because personally she's just not to my liking, not that she's weak or anything just don't like her. General rule of thumb with Sona would be: you're doing well with her if you're oppressive to enemy with her in lane. She also scales pretty well into late game with her auras. I skipped some other issues worth talking about, but i guess this would be enough for now.
I'll start from the bottom : Warding - I have carefully studied the ward placing map, and I know where to put them in each lane when I go there (early game bot, then in team fights mid to see when jungler comes and the objectives mostly). But until this thread I wasn't aware of how many different types of wards there are and what every one of them does. Now that it has been brought to my attention, I will study it. Items: Fun fact - I've actually played Janna for only a few days :D I do base my build on a Master player's build found online. Locket of solari has saved my teams in maaaany situations so you could say as soon as I get it, it's ready to be used in team fights to save my team, because the enemy team rarely uses the locket, or forgets I have it, and my teams have gotten several multikils because I used it at the right time. But the other one I do buy "because the guide said so" and I have used it rarely, mostly becaue my reaction speed in group fights is too slow. I have been looking for item alternatives, because I understand that I don't need an item I don't know how to use properly. And I bet once I have the right runes it will also get better (but I'm broke so that will take a while lol). I have learned to use her shield more or less properly, to use the Q to help my team escape, the W to help team catch those who run away, and R I sometimes misuse, but I'm getting there.
: It shouldn't be hard to stay behind all these tanks and heal.
Staying behind is what I do normally, yet my teammates almost force me to pick tank supports "or afk", or just go in front of everybody and then they wonder why I die so much. My default answer to any request is "support does what you need not what you want".
Paradoxs (EUW)
: Id ust like to point out you say only 3 wards, which is incorrect it's 4. 3 normal wards 1 control ward If you play thresh which I know you haven't mentioned but you can also use your lantern as a ward go check bushes as your progress. Also if the same thing has happened on the last 5fames in regard to mid why don't you go and try to make a play with your AOE stun or atleast hold up the push? You can poke very well as sona.
Mostly because my adc needs me or they'll die. Believe me, I've tried helping other lanes. 90% of the time my adc starts yelling that I'm "not in position".
: > [{quoted}](name=marijaench,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=Uh2LbcBp,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-01-02T07:45:08.438+0000) > > Yet I can only place 3 wards at a time. Warding shouldn't be on the support alone. I have tried waiting for a safe moment to ward, but then I get yelled at "no vision gg". I mean, why do they rely on my 3 wards so much? They also have wards. I know it is my "job", but you get what I mean. As Hansiman said, the few wards you have, you must learn to utilize them optimally so it doesn't seem that there is "no vision" ... my warding guide isn't translated yet, but here are the two main images : **Here is the blue side : ** http://oi67.tinypic.com/25z31gy.jpg **Here is the red side :** http://oi68.tinypic.com/281fuhz.jpg • Black for the ward positions that you are likely to never use when playing from that side • Green for the ward positions that you will rarely use or they are conditional (mode details later) • Orange for the ward positions which you will be frequently be using, depending of course, on the game and how it goes. • Red for the ward positions which you will most definitely have to use, at least during the first minutes of the game > I will, however, learn to use the different kinds of wards more. Thanks for that :) You can also learn how to place a ward, out of range of the brush you want to place it : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dmm6qoELE2E pay attention to were the mouse pointer is and were the ward ends up ... ;) the last one is the most tricky, but in ALL three cases, even if there is an opponent in that brush waiting for you, there is no way they can retaliate or even see you placing that ward :)
I've seen the ward maps and I know where to place them, that isn't the problem. The problem was that I am not fully familiar with all the types of the wards, and with 4 wards alone I can't grant vision in all of the map if my teammates do nothing regarding warding.
Doomley (EUW)
: >so I main Sona and Janna, with occasional Morgana. This right here is the problem if you are as good as you think you are. You are playing champions that are heavily reliant on the actions of your teammates. Play zyra or brand. Basically supports that can do things on their own. You are playing champions that are just there to defend a teammate or to catch someone but if the players in your elo are not good enough to be worth defending or aren't good enough to follow up on your perfect morgana q, all of your efforts are pointless. Best option would be to not main support while you are in bronze. This way you have more impact in games and can learn about other roles which will help you to understand the game better. Then return to support role after you have achieved a bit higher ranking.
So it's ok if a support gets more kills than their adc? Or do I have to feel the balance between being a support but being able to push a lane?
Hansiman (EUNE)
: Greetings. I hope you're ready for a lengthy post, because you're about to get one. I'll try to look a bit at your match history, and see if there's any advice I can give you based on what I see, and what you write here. Please don't take offence if I may be a bit straight forward or blunt in some aspects. My intention here is to help you, as I truly believe anyone is capable of getting out of Bronze V (b5) if they improve their knowledge of the game, and practice their ingame mechanics. I also believe you can get out of b5 with any champion you desire, as long as you take the time to practice. --- > And I know blaming "low elo teams" is unfair and all, but this is a team game after all. This is a team game, but as a solo player you'll get nowhere by blaming your team for your losses. Sure, sometimes you'll lose a game due to your allies, but remember that the only person you are guaranteed to get on your team in the next game is yourself. Since you can't really improve the gameplay of your other allies from one game to another, you can only take responsibility for yourself. Remember that there are 9 other people in your game, all whom which come from the same pool of players. If you're on average better than those 9 other players, you alone is enough to give your team a better winning chance, resulting in you winning more than 50% of your games. And winning more than 50% is all it takes to climb. Nobody will win 100% of the time, so don't worry about taking a loss, or even a loss streak. --- > If you want to tell me to "work on yourself"- how can I improve if I get teamed up with people who don't know how to play in a team? Simply by improving yourself, and not trying to improve the rest of your team. As an example: If an ADC main came here and asked the questions you did, and I saw that he always had less than 100cs every game, then there's an obvious pointer as to where he could improve. When you want to improve, and climb the ladder, the most important skill you need to have is the ability to criticise yourself, and find mistakes in what you did. You should really start doing this every single time you die; instead of blaming an ally, try to think of something **you** could have done differently in that situation that may have increases your odds of surviving. Better players get to where they are because they have a better ability to understand ones own weaknesses, and work on improving these. --- > I'm warding my ass off So here comes a part where I'll be pretty blunt: No, no you're not. I base what I say here on your last three losses in your match history, ignoring the game that seems to have ended in a remake. In these games, you ward 21, 36, and 37 times. Now I'll be the first to admit, you're warding far more than what the average b5 support I see, but there's some key information here you're forgetting. The same overview in your match history that tells me that you warded this amount of times, also tells me that you never purchased a single Control Ward, nor did you ever destroy any enemy wards. (One of the games show you destroyed 3 enemy wards, but your opponents had Illaoi and as a bug destroying her tentacles will count as a ward kill). Vision in this game is very important. Being able to see where your opponents are will make it easier for your team to set up ganks, or avoid them if the enemy is trying to move in. This increases your chance of winning. Now obviously, your opponents will be playing the same warding game. This is where control wards come in. For a small fee, you can purchase a Control Ward that will remain on the map until destroyed (limited to one per player), and you'll both disable enemy wards within its reach, **and** make them visible for you to destroy. At the same time, it also provides vision. Control Wards then both provide the vision as a standard Vision Ward does, but it also denies your enemy the same vision. Ofcourse, warding is a team job, and in reality every single player on your team should purchase Control Wards. But if you're not buying them yourself, then you can't say there's nothing you can do to improve. Another item you seem to be missing is your trinket. When you leave the base, you get the standard Warding Totem. That's completely correct, as this tool enables you to ward right from the start. However, once you've built your Sightstone, what do you need that trinket for? Place your wards correctly, and you'll never use your Warding Totem again. The point here is that once you've built your Sightstone, exchange your Warding Totem for the Sweeping Lens, and ensure that you upgrade this one to the Oracle Alteration once you've hit lvl 9. These two trinkets enable you to sweep an area to disable and reveal enemy wards, which you can then destroy. A common mistake for b5 players is that they don't exchange or upgrade their trinkets as the game progresses. And remember, even if you are using a lot of normal wards, there's also a time where quality is far more important than the quantity of wards you're placing. If you're spamming out wards in an area where you normally don't need to ward, you've simply wasted it without providing enough tactical information for your team. --- > Yes, I still sometimes run into someone while warding (because we all know in low elo nobody helps support ward) To some extent, that's your fault. You don't need help to ward, if you do it correctly. If your ADC and you are pushed towards the enemy turret, you should have gotten a ward behind you in one of the brushes from jungle to be safe. If you're being pushed towards your own turret you shouldn't try to move forward alone to ward somewhere, as that's just asking for trouble. This part is really hard to assist you with without actually spectating your games and seeing what happens. But I'd just like to point it out that warding isn't necessarily something you should need help with, because you should try to maintain an overview on the minimap to know where your enemies are, or where they most likely are to be found. If you have no vision of your enemies, maybe you should wait a bit with those wards if you feel you're going to put yourself at risk. --- > jungler that ganks only top and hopefully mid doesn't feed. As I've mentioned before, don't focus so much on the mistakes your team does. Your opponents make the exact same mistakes, and the team that adapts best is the one that tends to win. Your jungler, for instance, isn't obligated to ever gank for you. One could say that your lane is your responsibility, and the jungler may come to assist you if he feels that the chance is there to provide your lane with an advantage. If he feels, for instance, that it's better to gank top, chances are that he should gank top because he feels more confident going there. --- There's probably a lot more I can tell you, but I'll stop here and hopefully you'll pick up a thing or two. Increasing your gameplay knowledge will make you think a little smarter in your games, but don't expect to go on a winning spree right away. You still have to take this knowledge, and turn it into gameplay mechanics, which will only come from practicing. Rome wasn't built in a day you know. =) As a last pointer: Remember what I told you about wards and vision? In your match history, I see that your enemies don't purchase Control Wards, or destroy the wards on your team either. It's very normal in b5 to make these mistakes, so take advantage of that knowledge, because increasing your warding game will give you the upper hand.
Yet I can only place 3 wards at a time. Warding shouldn't be on the support alone. I have tried waiting for a safe moment to ward, but then I get yelled at "no vision gg". I mean, why do they rely on my 3 wards so much? They also have wards. I know it is my "job", but you get what I mean. I do know that what I do isn't remotely "good", I just like to think I am not "that" bad. 80% of my deaths are justified though - running between adc and enemy when they are chased, a large part is me trying to heal them in stupid situations. One thing I struggle with is realising I don't have to save everyone. If someone runs 2v5 in a fight (like bronze does), I have the right to not try to save them, right? Because 2 deaths are better than 3. That's also something I see often - a lvl 12 tries to take on 2 lvl 16s. Why would anyone do that? In my games, they ganked top because top was losing super bad, and the jungler didn't even kill a single objective. I know the other team makes the same mistakes, but at the end of the day they regroup and gank mid like a team and win every single time. Last 5 games have been almost exactly the same, one of those we were actually ahead but still lost because everyone was pushing lanes when our nexus was getting destroyed. I tried to stop it, but 1v5 isn't working when you're a support. :D I will, however, learn to use the different kinds of wards more. Thanks for that :)
: This may sound a bit condescending or even rude and that really isn't my intention, but... If I were you, I would honestly stay as far away from support as possible if you are below at least Gold V. The support role is designed primarily to augment the kits and abilities of their carries, putting you entirely at their mercy. Even playmaking supports like Thresh or Alistar require your carry to know how to follow up. And trust me, you do NOT want your LP resting in the hands of someone else. Support is a very good role to learn the game from. It teaches you map awareness and how to put priority on pressuring the right objectives, incredibly valuable skills that elevate you immensely as a player. But if your objective is to climb out of low elo, I really, really recommend sticking to hypercarry roles and champions. Opt into something mechanically simple and relatively faceroll. Syndra, Annie, and Fizz for mid, Darius, Pantheon and Illaoi for top, Xin Zhao, Yi and Evelynn for jungle and Ashe and Sivir for AD would be my recommended get-out-of-elo-hell champion pool. Hope that helps!
Thanks for your input :) That's what I actually thought myself - low elo doesn't know how to fully play with a support, they all play as a bunch of individuals, and only a few times over the last few months I've felt like me and the adc work as one (needless to say,those were silver 1 and higher adcs). In low elo people only see KDA and "you are stupid". Was actually considering learning to jungle, seeing how bad are the junglers I get :D
Rioter Comments
: Have you tried changing display settings? For example, change to windowed mode if you're currently using fullscreen.
I can 't change anything because I can 't physically get in the game. To change settings I have to be able to open the settings, don't I?
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