: At least she is less popular than malz right now...100% pick/ban in euw ranked. I didn't play her quite enough but she seem quite strong. Her sustain is really helpful since min 0 ,her 6th slot opens lots of options other mages don't have,you dont need the target to be poisoned to spam e,and her w is a really powerful tool. My question is, can you reach 1k ap with her now?
no because the new passive is crap. even with a 6th slot there is no item that would give that much AP cdr and even a little spellvamp as the old passive..
: > [{quoted}](name=xExerionx,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=00wR0Iaf,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-05-08T14:35:04.337+0000) > > Cassio main here! I have played Cass pretty much every 2nd game before the rework so I would consider myself to have some knowledge of her and a feeling on how she used to play. > > I think you point out an important problem she has after the rework. One of her abilities is now completely useless in the laning phase (W). On top of W having a minimum range which is the biggest issue it now doesnt poison enemies that leave the field. W used to poison for 2s now if you leave the area you are instantly not poisoned anymore which is really annoying if you chase with E and suddenly all your dmg drops to 0. > > Biggest issue in general with the rework is: > > - the damage of cassio is considerable less, she is not able to pressure/bully her enemy laners which made her strong. > - E cd increase is the biggest reason for that! the old E was much better > - her new passive is very unimaginative, her old passive had much more interesting gameplay behind it (hit poisons to increase cdr and get huge AP increase) > > > Very very disappointed with the rework. Seems they just saw that Cassio was not a very popular champ (because she was difficult to play) and decided to rework her in order to make her more appealing (new W and simple passive) for a more casual audience. How can you be a cassopeia main and compare both passives? It fits her theme that she can't buy boots (doesn't even have legs) but gains mov speed per level. The AP she got from the old passive is less effective than the extra item she can get. The damage she deals to poisoned targets is still good along with more Q damage and better W so I don't really know what are you people complainign about
If you would have thought what the old passive gave you could have saved that comment. Her old passive is better than ANY item you can buy lol
: Q is a buff overall on the damage and cooldown that's for sure, but for the move speed if you consider that in 3 secs the movement speed buff goes from 30% to 0% in 3 secs (at lvl 1) its overall boost is 15% so it is only worth the old Q (in terms of move speed boost) at lvl 3 But anyway thanks for the answer i'll try the W maxing. I'll always go for a 45% CDR build anyway since i can't forget the old Cass with EXACTLY 0,5 secs CD (and not 0,55 or 0,63) it doesn't feel exactly the same as before. I still feel like the playstyle is way different , she's obviously less mobile than when I rushed celerity and now we'll have to wait to get built up to actually spam E and kite people. I'm still disgusted by the Q range nerd tho. I guess this comes from Riot's intention to make Cass an easier champion overall. Feels bad man
dont max W its waste of points. it falls off as soon as they leave the area which takes around 1s,,,
: I disagree with you, Cassiopeia being my most played champ with around 900 games. They shifted a lot of damage back to Q and gave W a significant amount of damage as well now. It is no longer E spam to win. They changed her playstyle only slightly. You no longer spam E 4 times per trade. The a trade combo would be like this now: W E Q E E All in combo: Ult Q E W E E Q E E woops, didn't mean to send already, gonna edit. She is more mobile in the early game, until like level 10. At that point the enemy is likely to finish his boots and be faster than you. Afterwards you'll get stronger again, treat it like a dip in power where you become significantly weaker for a few levels, just in terms of movement. Q has a good AP ratio again. It's great. Also the spell IS way stronger than before. You have a stronger movement speed buff (your calculations are off, it was a buff 100%), it has half !!! it's cooldown and has a good base damage once again. Original Cassio had this and she was very strong with it. W has a shit ton of damage. Her old W dealt 10 + 90% AP damage per second for 9 seconds, increasing by 10 per rank. The 90% ratio only for the full duration. The new W starts at like twice that damage, has 5 seconds of duration and deals a total of 95% AP over less time. The slow is insanely good, you can compare it to Braum ultimate that deals a load of damage. E got significantly nerfed indeed, but that is alright. Good last hit tool, non restrictive since you'll get mana back regardless of whether you get the last hit with it or not. It does feel odd at first, being used to .5 seconds CD (the sound of a spell that is on cooldown is disgusting), but you know what this also means? This means that Cassio scales with Cooldown Reduction. A stat that was previously almost useless on her, which is why she got it for free so she doesn't have to buy it. You should get around 30% CDR, maybe going for the 40% and now you'll almost be like old cass in terms of E spam, but your other spells are significant as well. She does need some getting used to, but I find her to be way more powerful than before. It feels like you actually do have zone control now. That W is insanely powerful, I'm very happy with it. So what is my playstyle? I max W first. And it is insanely good, you should too! Max W > Q > E, it will feel really good. Give it a try. Why? W gains a very strong slow, so people can't just walk through it. It gains A LOT of damage AND the cooldown goes down by A LOT. With my usual build of 30% CDR, that W has 8.9 second cooldown. That is insane for the damage it does and the utility it brings. I do take a second level in Q early to get a good amount of movement speed (it feels more fluid that way to me). This also allows you to us W more freely, instead of being restricted by a very long cooldown your enemy can abuse (think Yasuo Windwall) And I do find myself in many games where I actually make good use of that item slot. Don't forget that you can have more item parts as well, not only full items.
problem is W does no dmg and instantly falls off when they leave the area.... it used to be 2s poison. The biggest beef I have with the new cassio is the terrible W and the weaker passive
aCup of Tea (EUNE)
: Hi I played her and played against her, I'm not the best but I like her now more than before update - well probably because of her flat low E cd right now ;-). When it comes to new items I found going tear for mana early was enough for me and then instead of rushing straight high cdr item rushing Rylai's seems way better, the slow from Rylai's is now really strong with cass kit (especially E + Q) and makes you transcend into mid game power - at least in 1v1 situations ;-). Though I'd like to see tweaks on her numbers. And yeah her passive removing boots is kinda annoying especially because high mobility mid champions are all the rage for last XY seasons. It's a nice test from Riot of a unique ability but it one more item slot is not that special considering you can sell boots in late game and people often do it. And unless meta heavily shifts towards long games her movement speed boost from passive is a bit useless right now. And I don't think hittin your Q is that terrible, yeah it has a really low range considering it's a delayed ability but as a fellow programmers would say you can hack through it, just cut your opponent off with your W to make sure that he is in your range or has to run through W thus giving you time to catch up.
Whats the point of a flat low E cd if it does not dmg to unpoisoned targets (its as strong as AA + mana cost) At least previously it hit poisoned targets like a truck 2 times within 1s,,,,, now its 1 time per second
apples33 (EUW)
: Cassiopeia update
You are completely right. Cassio didnt need changes!! Her W is aweful, the fact that it instantly falls of is bad enough but on top of that they added a fixed cast range. The new passive is just lazy ass developing. Its actually a nerf as the old one was extremly powerful (no item gives spellvamp, cdr and a deathcap effect) and no extra itemslot makes up for it. Overall its very very bad design by RIOT
Larry (EUNE)
: still you wont need to spend on boots, so early gold is more efficient than late gold You still have sustained damage because even if you dont hit your Q your E has no cooldown so you can still spam it whatsoever. Her ult basically hits whoever gets closer than max W range she barely lets anyone escape, and can be utilised in choke points. She needs different build path than before and a different playstyle. I used to main her on season 3 but when i reached high gold she wasn't as competitive as other mages whereas now i find her able to be played in all skill levels
Dude have you even read the OPs text?? He makes valid points mainly in regard to the god aweful W. The new item slot does not make up for 30% AP, 25% cdr and spellvamp not by a long shot!! You clearly dont play her so why even bother. She is much weaker than she was before and lost her role as highest sustain dps mage...
Orthian (EUW)
: Are you kidding? I love the new Cassio! The Q damage is insane lategame, and her E is easy to use, I don't understand what you mean when you say it's clunky. The W does need work though, it does look like they should be grounded when they aren't, which is confusing but hey it's a new form of cc, it's not going to be perfect. I look at Cassio as a lategame monster, he damage output is incredible and the changes have made her much more fun to play. Her Q can do 800+ magic damage with one cast, her E has TERRIFYING damage if they're poisoned, and the whole "snakes don't need boots" thing means a 6th ap item for more damage! TL;DR stop aggressively shouting and calm down. Cassio isn't destroyed at all.
Her E was doing more dmg before the rework.... Her Q does maybe more dmg now but that doesnt matter she is suppose to be the highest sustain damage mage in the game and with that reduced range and E nerf she is nothing like that anymore. Not to mention her new passive is AWEFUL! A new itemslot is not even close to what her old passive was (25%cdr, 30% AP, heal on E + penetration and movement of normal boots) Maybe you dont main her and dont have that much experience with her but saying she is a "lategame monster" and does more damage then before means you have not really played her before.
Rikigaku (EUW)
: My thoughts on Cassiopeia (looking for some Main's to get their opinion)
Cassio main here! I have played Cass pretty much every 2nd game before the rework so I would consider myself to have some knowledge of her and a feeling on how she used to play. I think you point out an important problem she has after the rework. One of her abilities is now completely useless in the laning phase (W). On top of W having a minimum range which is the biggest issue it now doesnt poison enemies that leave the field. W used to poison for 2s now if you leave the area you are instantly not poisoned anymore which is really annoying if you chase with E and suddenly all your dmg drops to 0. Biggest issue in general with the rework is: - the damage of cassio is considerable less, she is not able to pressure/bully her enemy laners which made her strong. - E cd increase is the biggest reason for that! the old E was much better - her new passive is very unimaginative, her old passive had much more interesting gameplay behind it (hit poisons to increase cdr and get huge AP increase) Very very disappointed with the rework. Seems they just saw that Cassio was not a very popular champ (because she was difficult to play) and decided to rework her in order to make her more appealing (new W and simple passive) for a more casual audience.
: Her W used to be a useless generic slow... its now very strong and unique because it prevents a lot of escapes and gap closers.
it was never useless what a bunch of bull!
kiwishrew (EUW)
: Struggling with the new Cassieopia
yea she feels much worse compared to before,, its sad
: Cass changes are bullcrap. I dont see where she became stronger, it was basically a nerf. She used to be at the bottom 10 of the winrate, now I expect her to be bottom 3
it was a full nerf to her damage
: I love the changes! Her Q CD is a little annoying if you don't have cdr but since e got a casting and travel time (depending on how far you are away from your enemy) the 3.5 cd is alright, not optimal tho. We get a completely new spell with her w which does not only poison enemies but also makes it impossible for them to get away! Perfect for lockdown combos or before/after your ultimate. I know the range is a bit of a problem, but once you get used to it it's not that bad. You shouldn't stand in the fronline anyway, so I think the range is alright. Her e does a lot less damage and I can't count all the cs I lost in early game for it, but you can still use auto attacks to last hit or just wait until the minions drops really low if you don't like to poison the minion. I like the extra-damage mechanic and a late-game e without poison still does decent dmg in case you missed your q (especially when you sit on 1000 ap). Overall a VERY good and needed change for Cassiopeia. Introducing a new spell effect and also giving her back her early game power we used to love her for before the changes :) {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
If anything she lost early game power! Because her dmg is lower she has less pressure which was her main advantage!
: > [{quoted}](name=xExerionx,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=aEzbziAv,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-05-04T10:10:11.419+0000) > > I played Cass now a few times after the patch and being a Cass Main player I have to say I HATE the changes! > > The passive is boring as hell, E does less dmg overall (Much higher cd!!, less AP scaling and with new Passive Cass has less AP overall) and W is a nice idea but as the OP already mentioned the fact that it has a minimum range is utter crap. Laning against enemies like zed and yas that can close the gap to you in the blink of an eye without much effort requires you to be able to cast W ontop of you,,, > > Not happy with the changes overall. Cass was much more interesting before the patch with her old E that resets on poisoned targets (0.5s) and her passive that increases in power based on poison stacks. > > Why didnt you just tweaked her old passive (less % AP and cd) and added the movement crap as an addition. Her old passive was boring. This one gives a lot of early game power and being able to get 6 AP items sounds pretty great. Even having that one item slot is neat. W minimum range is alright. That ability is very powerful and its max range is actually high enough to prevent those guys from getting to you early. You can also position yourself close to a wall, aim W at the wall and then have the poison on top of you, which will give her even more kill potential when waiting in a bush. Her W is also INCREDIBLY powerful if you throw it out to where your tank stunlocks a catch. Pretty great ability. Sure, E has "more" CD, but it's base CD is very low now. Cassio actually scales with cooldown reduction thanks to this and her Q. Now you can use E without spending mana on poisoning targets first and against minions it really doesn't matter if they're not poisoned for the extra damage.
Outside of the new W which is can be much more powerful in teamfights due to its lockdown she is weaker in her laning and lategame stages. And probably even lost her role as the highest sustain dps mage with the increased cd on E and the reduced AP scaling of it. Only time will tell but her new set plays weaker as her previous one that is for sure.
: Really wondering what Cassi's current goal is then. Because as I remember she was supposed to be a hypercarry with a lot of DPS. And they succeeded in that. Although her early was probably a bit too strong for a hypercarry.
Exactly she was suppose to be a hyper carry with the highest sustain dps output of all mages. Now that high sustain dmg is vastly reduced because of the new cd on E and ofc less AP scaling. She doesnt feel smooth AT ALL right now and much weaker in her laning phase as she cannot output the same amount of pressure as before which made her the strong champ she was!
: I know Cass isn't a front-line champion, but her range isn't exaclty great. And since every new champion either has 3 times her range or multiple gapclosers, that grounded won't really help you. It's not an instant debuff to stop an enemy from moving, like the old Veigar stun. Any barely decent Fizz, Zed, LB or any other assassin will just jump over that W before it hits the ground, making it pointless. The least you could give Cass is the ability to lock that assassin down next to her. You probably still die, but at least your team can hit that assassin before he jumps back. Cass used to be a mage that I could play as any ranged carry, shoot out twin fangs while kiting backwards. That old miasma just helped getting a bit of distance if enemies got too close. It's great to see Riot made a skill that counters the mobility creep, but at least make it useable.
Yea exactly... if the W would not only stop at terrain but at the first enemy hit it would actually be pretty amazing. As it is now champs like Yas, Zed and LB will just hit you before you can cast it.
: I always liked Cass as a barely picked champion and always wondered why. She was pretty good throughout the entire game. Early was great and she had more than enough damage to kill most champions, even though it would cost pretty much all your mana. Mid game she was pretty strong and could fight most champions easily and her teamfighting is great. And lategame she was a mage with pretty much the higest sustained damage of all champions. Still wondering why you would destroy a perfectly fine champion...
my thoughts exactly... I mean she recently got a whole revamp,, no need to do it again. I would have prefered her to stay as she was compared to now.... The new passive and W are funny ideas but would have been fine without.. Or tweak the old passive so she can have the new one added ontop of it and leave old W just add the new effect (smaller area but adjustable range)..
: Cassiopeia's changes
I played Cass now a few times after the patch and being a Cass Main player I have to say I HATE the changes! The passive is boring as hell, E does less dmg overall (Much higher cd!!, less AP scaling and with new Passive Cass has less AP overall) and W is a nice idea but as the OP already mentioned the fact that it has a minimum range is utter crap. Laning against enemies like zed and yas that can close the gap to you in the blink of an eye without much effort requires you to be able to cast W ontop of you,,, Not happy with the changes overall. Cass was much more interesting before the patch with her old E that resets on poisoned targets (0.5s) and her passive that increases in power based on poison stacks. Why didnt you just tweaked her old passive (less % AP and cd) and added the movement crap as an addition.
Rioter Comments
: 9/10 wins from gold V to silver V
proof with screenshot or didnt happen.
I am silver (EUNE)
: 9-1 provisionals
proof with screenshot or didnt happen.
Mr 44 (EUW)
: 10/10 = Bronze V
proof with screenshot or you just talk bullshit
: The new draft mode experience....
Interesting fact : I played my 10 placement matches yesterday 5 : 5 not specifically good but the interesting part is 4 of my wins I had during the new placement system! After they removed it I had only flamers and afkers in my matches and lost 5 in a row then won one more.

xExerionx

Level 30 (EUW)
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